This one hurts

[whatisee]

Enough crying already. It's Friday...game tomorrow and time to move forward. Somebody kill this thread already

[UAdevil]

Damn, Newport, I'm right there with you...its been 17?

Who knew my football fandom would kick off in the basement of Kaibab Huachuca watching the Penn St game.

Telling...

I watched that game in the big room at the bottom of Coronado where I was living. It was really the first Arizona game I watched as a true fan, with my family ties had followed the team before but not that closely. I remember waking up real early for it (didn't it start at like 8am?) and being so excited and then BAM, all gone. Very telling game....

I was a senior and working in the State Museum gift shop. I remember coming in early to set up the store for the day and rigging up the 12 inch TV that we used to demo some dvds, to get reception for the game. Think I stuck a makeshift antenna made of about 10 paperclips into the coaxial jack to get the network. So, so excited...then, boom. We suck.

[CalStateTempe]

That game was over before it really began.

So much optimism but even then I remember we were concerning about the effect of the early start and high ranking.

Ah, depresses me just thinking about it.

[scumdevils86]

Although it is just Grambling and Hawaii, I will feel a lot better with 2 (god i hope so) ass-kicking wins the next 2 weeks.

[Chicat]

Enough crying already. It's Friday...game tomorrow and time to move forward. Somebody kill this thread already

So, you don't want to talk about the LSU Tuitama concussion game?

[ASUHATER!]

Enough crying already. It's Friday...game tomorrow and time to move forward. Somebody kill this thread already

So, you don't want to talk about the LSU Tuitama concussion game?

that one sucked. sd86 and i and a friend went to this new orleans style restaurant on grant road (that's closed now) to get food and watch the game. po' boys and all that. ended up sadly eating our food in silence.

[scumdevils86]

it was also the same weekend that our uncle died of cancer. nothing positive about that weekend.

[UAdevil]

Enough crying already. It's Friday...game tomorrow and time to move forward. Somebody kill this thread already

So, you don't want to talk about the LSU Tuitama concussion game?

that one sucked. sd86 and i and a friend went to this new orleans style restaurant on grant road (that's closed now) to get food and watch the game. po' boys and all that. ended up sadly eating our food in silence.

The French Quarter. My band played there a few times in the early aughts.

[OSUCat]

It's time to flip the script.

The 1st play I remember watching Arizona Football is the leap by the lake!
The 1st play of basketball I remember is Mile Simon hitting a full court shot to win the game.

I watched football and basketball before those plays but looking back those are my real first memories I have.

[Merkin]

It's time to flip the script.

The 1st play I remember watching Arizona Football is the leap by the lake!
The 1st play of basketball I remember is Mile Simon hitting a full court shot to win the game.

I watched football and basketball before those plays but looking back those are my real first memories I have.

Pretty sure it was half court, but I think that is my daughter's first memory of college basketball, or maybe one of my son's.

Too bad Ortege Jenkins regressed so much after his freshman year.

And note RichRod, 2 QBs can work!

[BearDown89]

1976-2016. 40 years now. Just means I'm older that's all.

Luckily, I have virtually no memory of the Mackovic years. I'd moved back up here to Boise from Phoenix and wasn't tuned in I guess.

So bizarre to me that, after all of their combined years of posting on these boards, the twin-droolers can't figure out how to have a pleasant conversation without getting hostile and defensive.

[scumdevils86]

Come on man, look at my history. I'm not at all hostile and defensive (maybe asuhater is though ). There is always this slight bit of superiority that oozes subconsciously from people who have "been there longer". I'm not saying it is bad, I am sure I will get that way myself as it is human nature.

I don't know what it says about me that I became a fan during the Mackovic years. Maybe that's why we're so fucked up.

[ASUHATER!]

1976-2016. 40 years now. Just means I'm older that's all.

Luckily, I have virtually no memory of the Mackovic years. I'd moved back up here to Boise from Phoenix and wasn't tuned in I guess.

So bizarre to me that, after all of their combined years of posting on these boards, the twin-droolers can't figure out how to have a pleasant conversation without getting hostile and defensive.

says the guy with a hostile and defensive post that i'm currently quoting. strange.

[Chicat]

It's time to flip the script.

The 1st play I remember watching Arizona Football is the leap by the lake!
The 1st play of basketball I remember is Mile Simon hitting a full court shot to win the game.

I watched football and basketball before those plays but looking back those are my real first memories I have.

My first Arizona football memory is the Fiesta Bowl in 93 against Miami. Can't say I ever noticed them before that since I was living in NY.

My first memory as a fan was game 1 of my freshman year, Sept. 2, 1995. The team kicked the shit out of Pacific. We did the wave, there were beach balls flying around the student section, and I was 18 and drunk. It was awesome.

[BearDown89]

Come on man, look at my history. I'm not at all hostile and defensive (maybe asuhater is though ). There is always this slight bit of superiority that oozes subconsciously from people who have "been there longer". I'm not saying it is bad, I am sure I will get that way myself as it is human nature.

I don't know what it says about me that I became a fan during the Mackovic years. Maybe that's why we're so fucked up.

Fair enough. I do enjoy your culinary contributions to those threads. I've no feeling of long-suffering superiority though. It's just fun to recall some of the names and games with the more vintage posters. I suppose we all enjoy having street cred within our tribes. All things considered the only thing that really pangs me about Arizona Football is the Rose Bowl issue. That one sucks. Otherwise, I'll continue to revel and suffer, as circumstances dictate, for the duration.

[scumdevils86]

Come on man, look at my history. I'm not at all hostile and defensive (maybe asuhater is though ). There is always this slight bit of superiority that oozes subconsciously from people who have "been there longer". I'm not saying it is bad, I am sure I will get that way myself as it is human nature.

I don't know what it says about me that I became a fan during the Mackovic years. Maybe that's why we're so fucked up.

Fair enough. I do enjoy your culinary contributions to those threads. I've no feeling of long-suffering superiority though. It's just fun to recall some of the names and games with the more vintage posters. I suppose we all enjoy having street cred within our tribes. All things considered the only thing that really pangs me about Arizona Football is the Rose Bowl issue. That one sucks. Otherwise, I'll continue to revel and suffer, as circumstances dictate, for the duration.

Likewise

[azpenguin]

It's time to flip the script.

The 1st play I remember watching Arizona Football is the leap by the lake!
The 1st play of basketball I remember is Mile Simon hitting a full court shot to win the game.

I watched football and basketball before those plays but looking back those are my real first memories I have.

Pretty sure it was half court, but I think that is my daughter's first memory of college basketball, or maybe one of my son's.

Too bad Ortege Jenkins regressed so much after his freshman year.

And note RichRod, 2 QBs can work!

The Miracle Miles shot was 65 feet. So you guys can split the difference and both be half right

2 QBs can work, but you gotta do it right. RR is big on rhythm. I think his risk-averse nature makes it really hard for him to pull the trigger on a QB switch mid game. That said, remember that he took out Solomon against both Colorado and Wazzu last year to change things up in close games, so it's not like he's never done it.

For the record, I don't feel I've got superiority by nature of long-term fandom. I've just seen so much of this before, and most of this is just blips on the radar. It takes a lot before I get too upset; it's only a game, played by a bunch of 18-23 year olds. I want them to win but life goes on if they don't. I don't envy the job of a coach who has to keep a bunch of athletic and popular college aged guys out of trouble. I don't envy the guys whose (albeit well paid) jobs can hinge on whether or not they recruited the right guys based on high school film. But the games are almost always fun, and when it's good, it's really good.

[dirtbags]

My first Arizona football memory is the Fiesta Bowl in 93 against Miami. Can't say I ever noticed them before that since I was living in NY.

My first memory as a fan was game 1 of my freshman year, Sept. 2, 1995. The team kicked the shit out of Pacific. We did the wave, there were beach balls flying around the student section, and I was 18 and drunk. It was awesome.

that was also the year you drank beer from a sports trophy and torched the alpha beta house. good times.

[Chicat]

My first Arizona football memory is the Fiesta Bowl in 93 against Miami. Can't say I ever noticed them before that since I was living in NY.

My first memory as a fan was game 1 of my freshman year, Sept. 2, 1995. The team kicked the shit out of Pacific. We did the wave, there were beach balls flying around the student section, and I was 18 and drunk. It was awesome.

that was also the year you drank beer from a sports trophy and torched the alpha beta house. good times.

It would have been a perfect year if it hadn't been for those nerds ruining Spring Fling/Greek Homecoming Festival...

[Spaceman Spiff]

It's time to flip the script.

The 1st play I remember watching Arizona Football is the leap by the lake!
The 1st play of basketball I remember is Mile Simon hitting a full court shot to win the game.

I watched football and basketball before those plays but looking back those are my real first memories I have.

Pretty sure it was half court, but I think that is my daughter's first memory of college basketball, or maybe one of my son's.

Too bad Ortege Jenkins regressed so much after his freshman year.

And note RichRod, 2 QBs can work!

https://youtu.be/eqj7DYy23D0" target="_blank

The shot is 3:35 in.

[OSUCat]

I haven't seen the play since it happened. Thanks!

[CalStateTempe]

Enough crying already. It's Friday...game tomorrow and time to move forward. Somebody kill this thread already

So, you don't want to talk about the LSU Tuitama concussion game?

Fuck man, I was in the upper deck of Death Valley and from my perch could see the death of that generation of Arizona football.

[CalStateTempe]

Loved the French quarter. That was my spot.

[Gladiator Cat]

Guys not sure where this should go but the other site is reporting that Anu is questionable. A hurt knee. I didn't see that happen in the game.

Its looks like we're going to get a long look at Dawkins at long last.

If this is true I think there is not a better situation for Dawkins and extended playing time than to get meaningful playing time against a cupcake.

[Spaceman Spiff]

Guys not sure where this should go but the other site is reporting that Anu is questionable. A hurt knee. I didn't see that happen in the game.

Its looks like we're going to get a long look at Dawkins at long last.

If this is true I think there is not a better situation for Dawkins and extended playing time than to get meaningful playing time against a cupcake.

My concern:

Grambling is bad, so either Anu or Dawkins would look like a dominant qb against them. If it's Dawkins, does it do anything but build more uncertainty into the QB situation? The question really isn't who can kill it vs Grambling.

[Merkin]

Guys not sure where this should go but the other site is reporting that Anu is questionable. A hurt knee. I didn't see that happen in the game.

RR said he hurt it practicing on the Arizona Stadium artificial turf when it was raining.

Whether that's true or not, who knows. RichRod's football speak is not always honest.

[CalStateTempe]

Hell yeah.

#FreeDawkins.

[CalStateTempe]

This is not going to be a popular opinion, but I'm beginning to tell as if RRs best days are behind him.

When he leaves whenever that may be, he can take that turf with him. Bring back natural grass to wildcat stadium.

[Gladiator Cat]

Guys not sure where this should go but the other site is reporting that Anu is questionable. A hurt knee. I didn't see that happen in the game.

Its looks like we're going to get a long look at Dawkins at long last.

If this is true I think there is not a better situation for Dawkins and extended playing time than to get meaningful playing time against a cupcake.

My concern:

Grambling is bad, so either Anu or Dawkins would look like a dominant qb against them. If it's Dawkins, does it do anything but build more uncertainty into the QB situation? The question really isn't who can kill it vs Grambling.

Spiff, I guess my way of looking at it is, it doesn't really matter. As a player and a team, all you can do is play the game that is next on the schedule.

If its Dawkins, of course you want him to kill it. The other option is to play poorly and against a cupcake and at this level that would be bad in general.

[Gladiator Cat]

Guys not sure where this should go but the other site is reporting that Anu is questionable. A hurt knee. I didn't see that happen in the game.

RR said he hurt it practicing on the Arizona Stadium artificial turf when it was raining.

Whether that's true or not, who knows. RichRod's football speak is not always honest.

Merkin, thanks for the clarification.

As far as RR speak, all coaches are like that and always will be. Some just do the misdirection better than others.

[Gladiator Cat]

This is not going to be a popular opinion, but I'm beginning to tell as if RRs best days are behind him.

When he leaves whenever that may be, he can take that turf with him. Bring back natural grass to wildcat stadium.

CST,

Rich Rod has a lot of good football left in him. Whether its at Arizona I suppose is open for debate. I personally want him to succeed here and stay if at all possible because we are NEVER bringing in a Nick Saban, or Pete Carrol type coach.

As far as the turf, we all could debate that equation until the cows come home. The turf is probably here to stay.

[tgrumpy2]

You guys are youngsters and whiners. My freshman year at the UofA was the year of the Take Me or Leave Me Bowl. Darrell Mudra was the coach and we had a 190lb defensive tackle named Rex Macklin and a 170lb middle linebacker named Otis Comeaux. Had he been any bigger he would have killed someone. The rivalry game was in Tucson that year and that was back in the day when you got dressed up to go the game. It was a big deal and a social event. My date and I went to the pre parties and we got to the stadium and the atmosphere was electric. I had to sit there and watch Art Malone and the scum devils destroy us. We went on to the Sun Bowl that year and Auburn handed us our heads in a basket.
I don't know if this whine is as good as all of yours but I'm trying.

[Spaceman Spiff]

Guys not sure where this should go but the other site is reporting that Anu is questionable. A hurt knee. I didn't see that happen in the game.

Its looks like we're going to get a long look at Dawkins at long last.

If this is true I think there is not a better situation for Dawkins and extended playing time than to get meaningful playing time against a cupcake.

My concern:

Grambling is bad, so either Anu or Dawkins would look like a dominant qb against them. If it's Dawkins, does it do anything but build more uncertainty into the QB situation? The question really isn't who can kill it vs Grambling.

Spiff, I guess my way of looking at it is, it doesn't really matter. As a player and a team, all you can do is play the game that is next on the schedule.

If its Dawkins, of course you want him to kill it. The other option is to play poorly and against a cupcake and at this level that would be bad in general.

I agree. Of course I want to beat Grambling down, because if we lose to Grambling, the sky may actually be falling.

I just figure RR goes back to Anu, and worry all we buy is a controversy that we never really know the answer to because we should tear up Grambling with any QB.

I'm probably just a pessimist, which is what Arizona football will do to you.

[wyo-cat]

Loved the French quarter. That was my spot.

The owner of the Quarter has a place at Oracle and OG, the Parish. Legit.

It's in the spot that was Chuy's so long ago....

[scumdevils86]

Interesting, I didn't know the french quarter owner is the same as the Parish. The Parish has pretty good food and interesting drinks.

[TheBlackLodge]

Loved the French quarter. That was my spot.

The owner of the Quarter has a place at Oracle and OG, the Parish. Legit.

It's in the spot that was Chuy's so long ago....

Wow, never knew that but it makes total sense. The Parish is absolutely legit, great food and strong drinks!

[EVCat]

My first year as a UA student, we won the Copper Bowl. Dick Tomey went a fantastic 4-4-3 his first year. 12-1 and 10-2 happened, but largely because he was given enough time to have those teams.

Larry Smith is remembered as being much better than he maybe was because he was the only coach in a million years that wasn't fired. He actually left us for a bigger gig. But 48-28-3 in a major conference isn't amazing.

Dick Tomey was the best coach we ever had. People can argue all they want, but he did what he did as facilities improved conference-wide while we stayed the same. I can remember how excited people in the program were that we were helping Tucson High put field turf in because we could practice on field turf at the local high school. He never asked for pay increases. He had position coaches that helped coordinate with salaries in the 5 figures. And when he had just a good roster, he could compete with the elite. Dick Tomey had 3 star teams that regularly stood up to the 5 star programs. Tomey's biggest fault might have been in having his teams sometimes play down to the competition. But we had far more potential with Tomey than any coach prior to Stoops. If we had been able to even slightly improve our facilities during his tenure, and put him in the home of 4 star level players, we would have been an elite PAC 10 program in my opinion. He had that extra factor, that thing some coaches do, where players in a violent sport that requires just a little bit more willingness to risk injury to win were willing to do that for him, and believed he had their back...which he did. He could go notoriously conservative, too, but that was because of the style of play required to stay in games with 2 and 3 star talent coached up. When he could, he loosened the reigns and was actually a risk taker on par with the best. Fake punts, fumblerooskis, fake FGs, two QBs on the field throwing to each other, Back Attack (what else could he do with that group of RBs?)...

If Homer Smith had stayed healthy for even another 5 years, I truly believe Dick Tomey would be nearing his retirement at Arizona at a level of beloved similar to Lute Olson. His one weakness was addressed, and he let Homer go to work. Schools like Arizona...and Oregon a few years back...need offensive innovation. And Homer was the man when it came to creating offense out of thin air. If Dino could have gotten another 4 or 5 years under Homer, or even one or two? 2000 turns out a lot different (we tightened up with a big lead against UW and UCLA, lost Oregon by a point), and I really believe we are somewhere between UCLA and Oregon in level of program.

Of course, this is all opinion. But I think there is some fact behind my speculation. I also think Stoops would have grown into a very good coach if his personal life hadn't fallen apart in a most ugly and public way, reducing him to what was near suicidal mindset. When Duane came back, his dealings with Mike and the mess he was led DA to get the fuck out in a hurry (it has turned out well for him...a nice life on Stanford campus). Mike Stoops was a player's coach...hell, he was basically a player. He had huge sideline issues but they were getting under control. Then all hell broke loose, and what Akina saw was a coach that wasn't even an advocate for his players anymore, huddled with lawyers and consultants trying to keep his family, money, and sanity. That was sad...I know some people are not Stoops fans, but how it ended here was not really his fault.

And I think RichRod was a steal for us. And we will be very good in the near future (especially having survived the Byrne to UF issue). RichRod made one mistake...he lost sight of Casteel's lack of dedication to recruiting, because Jeff always X and O'd his way out of trouble. He made 3 star (and 2 star) players better and put them in the right place. People with Bullshit Milestone Disorder look to yards or points per game as proof Casteel was terrible, but those are BS stats in a hurry up offense environment where you face 25 more plays, and tired. Yards/points per play are the true milestones, and Jeff Casteel held up OK. But he didn't recruit, didn't have a taste for that part of the game, and his lack of depth was exposed in one truly awful season injury wise, where we were thin to begin with. RichRod allowed friendship and year 3 to cloud a growing problem. But he has addressed that (man, has he), and we are on the verge of yanking a super class. He derailed for a moment, but if RR stays, he has to be the favorite to be our best coach ever.

[Carcassdragger]

My first year as a UA student, we won the Copper Bowl. Dick Tomey went a fantastic 4-4-3 his first year. 12-1 and 10-2 happened, but largely because he was given enough time to have those teams.

Larry Smith is remembered as being much better than he maybe was because he was the only coach in a million years that wasn't fired. He actually left us for a bigger gig. But 48-28-3 in a major conference isn't amazing.

Dick Tomey was the best coach we ever had. People can argue all they want, but he did what he did as facilities improved conference-wide while we stayed the same. I can remember how excited people in the program were that we were helping Tucson High put field turf in because we could practice on field turf at the local high school. He never asked for pay increases. He had position coaches that helped coordinate with salaries in the 5 figures. And when he had just a good roster, he could compete with the elite. Dick Tomey had 3 star teams that regularly stood up to the 5 star programs. Tomey's biggest fault might have been in having his teams sometimes play down to the competition. But we had far more potential with Tomey than any coach prior to Stoops. If we had been able to even slightly improve our facilities during his tenure, and put him in the home of 4 star level players, we would have been an elite PAC 10 program in my opinion. He had that extra factor, that thing some coaches do, where players in a violent sport that requires just a little bit more willingness to risk injury to win were willing to do that for him, and believed he had their back...which he did. He could go notoriously conservative, too, but that was because of the style of play required to stay in games with 2 and 3 star talent coached up. When he could, he loosened the reigns and was actually a risk taker on par with the best. Fake punts, fumblerooskis, fake FGs, two QBs on the field throwing to each other, Back Attack (what else could he do with that group of RBs?)...

If Homer Smith had stayed healthy for even another 5 years, I truly believe Dick Tomey would be nearing his retirement at Arizona at a level of beloved similar to Lute Olson. His one weakness was addressed, and he let Homer go to work. Schools like Arizona...and Oregon a few years back...need offensive innovation. And Homer was the man when it came to creating offense out of thin air. If Dino could have gotten another 4 or 5 years under Homer, or even one or two? 2000 turns out a lot different (we tightened up with a big lead against UW and UCLA, lost Oregon by a point), and I really believe we are somewhere between UCLA and Oregon in level of program.

Of course, this is all opinion. But I think there is some fact behind my speculation. I also think Stoops would have grown into a very good coach if his personal life hadn't fallen apart in a most ugly and public way, reducing him to what was near suicidal mindset. When Duane came back, his dealings with Mike and the mess he was led DA to get the fuck out in a hurry (it has turned out well for him...a nice life on Stanford campus). Mike Stoops was a player's coach...hell, he was basically a player. He had huge sideline issues but they were getting under control. Then all hell broke loose, and what Akina saw was a coach that wasn't even an advocate for his players anymore, huddled with lawyers and consultants trying to keep his family, money, and sanity. That was sad...I know some people are not Stoops fans, but how it ended here was not really his fault.

And I think RichRod was a steal for us. And we will be very good in the near future (especially having survived the Byrne to UF issue). RichRod made one mistake...he lost sight of Casteel's lack of dedication to recruiting, because Jeff always X and O'd his way out of trouble. He made 3 star (and 2 star) players better and put them in the right place. People with Bullshit Milestone Disorder look to yards or points per game as proof Casteel was terrible, but those are BS stats in a hurry up offense environment where you face 25 more plays, and tired. Yards/points per play are the true milestones, and Jeff Casteel held up OK. But he didn't recruit, didn't have a taste for that part of the game, and his lack of depth was exposed in one truly awful season injury wise, where we were thin to begin with. RichRod allowed friendship and year 3 to cloud a growing problem. But he has addressed that (man, has he), and we are on the verge of yanking a super class. He derailed for a moment, but if RR stays, he has to be the favorite to be our best coach ever.

Goddamn what a post. And all right on the money. Just hoping RR is refocused on his commitment to Arizona.

[tgrumpy2]

My first year as a UA student, we won the Copper Bowl. Dick Tomey went a fantastic 4-4-3 his first year. 12-1 and 10-2 happened, but largely because he was given enough time to have those teams.

Larry Smith is remembered as being much better than he maybe was because he was the only coach in a million years that wasn't fired. He actually left us for a bigger gig. But 48-28-3 in a major conference isn't amazing.

Dick Tomey was the best coach we ever had. People can argue all they want, but he did what he did as facilities improved conference-wide while we stayed the same. I can remember how excited people in the program were that we were helping Tucson High put field turf in because we could practice on field turf at the local high school. He never asked for pay increases. He had position coaches that helped coordinate with salaries in the 5 figures. And when he had just a good roster, he could compete with the elite. Dick Tomey had 3 star teams that regularly stood up to the 5 star programs. Tomey's biggest fault might have been in having his teams sometimes play down to the competition. But we had far more potential with Tomey than any coach prior to Stoops. If we had been able to even slightly improve our facilities during his tenure, and put him in the home of 4 star level players, we would have been an elite PAC 10 program in my opinion. He had that extra factor, that thing some coaches do, where players in a violent sport that requires just a little bit more willingness to risk injury to win were willing to do that for him, and believed he had their back...which he did. He could go notoriously conservative, too, but that was because of the style of play required to stay in games with 2 and 3 star talent coached up. When he could, he loosened the reigns and was actually a risk taker on par with the best. Fake punts, fumblerooskis, fake FGs, two QBs on the field throwing to each other, Back Attack (what else could he do with that group of RBs?)...

If Homer Smith had stayed healthy for even another 5 years, I truly believe Dick Tomey would be nearing his retirement at Arizona at a level of beloved similar to Lute Olson. His one weakness was addressed, and he let Homer go to work. Schools like Arizona...and Oregon a few years back...need offensive innovation. And Homer was the man when it came to creating offense out of thin air. If Dino could have gotten another 4 or 5 years under Homer, or even one or two? 2000 turns out a lot different (we tightened up with a big lead against UW and UCLA, lost Oregon by a point), and I really believe we are somewhere between UCLA and Oregon in level of program.

Of course, this is all opinion. But I think there is some fact behind my speculation. I also think Stoops would have grown into a very good coach if his personal life hadn't fallen apart in a most ugly and public way, reducing him to what was near suicidal mindset. When Duane came back, his dealings with Mike and the mess he was led DA to get the fuck out in a hurry (it has turned out well for him...a nice life on Stanford campus). Mike Stoops was a player's coach...hell, he was basically a player. He had huge sideline issues but they were getting under control. Then all hell broke loose, and what Akina saw was a coach that wasn't even an advocate for his players anymore, huddled with lawyers and consultants trying to keep his family, money, and sanity. That was sad...I know some people are not Stoops fans, but how it ended here was not really his fault.

And I think RichRod was a steal for us. And we will be very good in the near future (especially having survived the Byrne to UF issue). RichRod made one mistake...he lost sight of Casteel's lack of dedication to recruiting, because Jeff always X and O'd his way out of trouble. He made 3 star (and 2 star) players better and put them in the right place. People with Bullshit Milestone Disorder look to yards or points per game as proof Casteel was terrible, but those are BS stats in a hurry up offense environment where you face 25 more plays, and tired. Yards/points per play are the true milestones, and Jeff Casteel held up OK. But he didn't recruit, didn't have a taste for that part of the game, and his lack of depth was exposed in one truly awful season injury wise, where we were thin to begin with. RichRod allowed friendship and year 3 to cloud a growing problem. But he has addressed that (man, has he), and we are on the verge of yanking a super class. He derailed for a moment, but if RR stays, he has to be the favorite to be our best coach ever.

My first year as a UA student, we won the Copper Bowl. Dick Tomey went a fantastic 4-4-3 his first year. 12-1 and 10-2 happened, but largely because he was given enough time to have those teams.

Larry Smith is remembered as being much better than he maybe was because he was the only coach in a million years that wasn't fired. He actually left us for a bigger gig. But 48-28-3 in a major conference isn't amazing.

Dick Tomey was the best coach we ever had. People can argue all they want, but he did what he did as facilities improved conference-wide while we stayed the same. I can remember how excited people in the program were that we were helping Tucson High put field turf in because we could practice on field turf at the local high school. He never asked for pay increases. He had position coaches that helped coordinate with salaries in the 5 figures. And when he had just a good roster, he could compete with the elite. Dick Tomey had 3 star teams that regularly stood up to the 5 star programs. Tomey's biggest fault might have been in having his teams sometimes play down to the competition. But we had far more potential with Tomey than any coach prior to Stoops. If we had been able to even slightly improve our facilities during his tenure, and put him in the home of 4 star level players, we would have been an elite PAC 10 program in my opinion. He had that extra factor, that thing some coaches do, where players in a violent sport that requires just a little bit more willingness to risk injury to win were willing to do that for him, and believed he had their back...which he did. He could go notoriously conservative, too, but that was because of the style of play required to stay in games with 2 and 3 star talent coached up. When he could, he loosened the reigns and was actually a risk taker on par with the best. Fake punts, fumblerooskis, fake FGs, two QBs on the field throwing to each other, Back Attack (what else could he do with that group of RBs?)...

If Homer Smith had stayed healthy for even another 5 years, I truly believe Dick Tomey would be nearing his retirement at Arizona at a level of beloved similar to Lute Olson. His one weakness was addressed, and he let Homer go to work. Schools like Arizona...and Oregon a few years back...need offensive innovation. And Homer was the man when it came to creating offense out of thin air. If Dino could have gotten another 4 or 5 years under Homer, or even one or two? 2000 turns out a lot different (we tightened up with a big lead against UW and UCLA, lost Oregon by a point), and I really believe we are somewhere between UCLA and Oregon in level of program.

Of course, this is all opinion. But I think there is some fact behind my speculation. I also think Stoops would have grown into a very good coach if his personal life hadn't fallen apart in a most ugly and public way, reducing him to what was near suicidal mindset. When Duane came back, his dealings with Mike and the mess he was led DA to get the fuck out in a hurry (it has turned out well for him...a nice life on Stanford campus). Mike Stoops was a player's coach...hell, he was basically a player. He had huge sideline issues but they were getting under control. Then all hell broke loose, and what Akina saw was a coach that wasn't even an advocate for his players anymore, huddled with lawyers and consultants trying to keep his family, money, and sanity. That was sad...I know some people are not Stoops fans, but how it ended here was not really his fault.

And I think RichRod was a steal for us. And we will be very good in the near future (especially having survived the Byrne to UF issue). RichRod made one mistake...he lost sight of Casteel's lack of dedication to recruiting, because Jeff always X and O'd his way out of trouble. He made 3 star (and 2 star) players better and put them in the right place. People with Bullshit Milestone Disorder look to yards or points per game as proof Casteel was terrible, but those are BS stats in a hurry up offense environment where you face 25 more plays, and tired. Yards/points per play are the true milestones, and Jeff Casteel held up OK. But he didn't recruit, didn't have a taste for that part of the game, and his lack of depth was exposed in one truly awful season injury wise, where we were thin to begin with. RichRod allowed friendship and year 3 to cloud a growing problem. But he has addressed that (man, has he), and we are on the verge of yanking a super class. He derailed for a moment, but if RR stays, he has to be the favorite to be our best coach ever.

EVCat. Larry Smith walked into a program that was being investigated by the NCAA and the investigation went on for two year and then we were handed two years of probation. For four years it was darn near impossible to recruit but he managed to and always had a competitive team on the field and he beat ASU. He actually ushered this program into the PAC10 and gave us respectability after Talkin Tony left. 48-23 is pretty remarkable for what we walked into.

[azpenguin]

EV, damn good post. TGrumpy does have a point about the NCAA issues, but there was a lot of other frustrations mixed in the Larry Smith years along with all the fun. This isn't to bash on Smith at all, he was a damn fine football coach and brought a spark that the program badly needed to get through a tough stretch. (For those of you that weren't along for the ride then... no TV for two years and a bowl ban SUUUUUCKED.) I'd also add to the bit you said about Dick Tomey having his players' backs - he did then and he still does now. He is still helping his former players, especially ones going through some tough things in life.

[jimson]

Well done Evcat.

I returned from Oklahoma as a Sooner fan and a friend got me to watch the 85 Sun Bowl. Starting the next year (Larry's last) I started going to games. Went to a lot of them over the Tomey years. One of my best memories was us knocking off #1 Washington.

The first time I bought season tickets was Mackovics 1st year. I didn't renew them his 2nd year,

Being an Okie, I was excited for the Stoops era, but by then i was working every Saturday. My wife bought us a minipack RR's 1st year and I bought season tix the next. I figured I would just put in for PTO every game day and if I had to miss some games so be it.

So far so good.

I've often wondered what the program would be like today, if Smith had succeeding in recruiting Rodney Peete to AZ.

[tgrumpy2]

EV, damn good post. TGrumpy does have a point about the NCAA issues, but there was a lot of other frustrations mixed in the Larry Smith years along with all the fun. This isn't to bash on Smith at all, he was a damn fine football coach and brought a spark that the program badly needed to get through a tough stretch. (For those of you that weren't along for the ride then... no TV for two years and a bowl ban SUUUUUCKED.) I'd also add to the bit you said about Dick Tomey having his players' backs - he did then and he still does now. He is still helping his former players, especially ones going through some tough things in life.

I will say EVCat I agree with you on everything else you said. I want RR to stay Building a school into a "football school" is a process and doesn't happen overnight. I think RR is well on his way. Even if we disagree on who the best UofA coach was no one can argue about what an incredible human being Dick Tomey is. A high school classmate of mine worked for years in the UofA maintenance department and saw a number of coaches come and go but Tomey always talked to him, knew his name and his family. That's just the kind of human being he is.

[Spaceman Spiff]

This one is gonna be worse.

[Gilbertcat]

This one is worse. Locally it will be beat to death, luckily Georgia had a worse game.

[qwertyus]

This one is worse. Locally it will be beat to death, luckily Georgia had a worse game.

...But we won?

[Gilbertcat]

Lol....going to be a dark week. Who knew losing to byu by a few would be a highlight

[Puerco]

Damn, Newport, I'm right there with you...its been 17?

Who knew my football fandom would kick off in the basement of Kaibab Huachuca watching the Penn St game.

Telling...

I watched that game in the big room at the bottom of Coronado where I was living. It was really the first Arizona game I watched as a true fan, with my family ties had followed the team before but not that closely. I remember waking up real early for it (didn't it start at like 8am?) and being so excited and then BAM, all gone. Very telling game....

I was a senior and working in the State Museum gift shop. I remember coming in early to set up the store for the day and rigging up the 12 inch TV that we used to demo some dvds, to get reception for the game. Think I stuck a makeshift antenna made of about 10 paperclips into the coaxial jack to get the network. So, so excited...then, boom. We suck.

I was in the stands for that game...

[CalStateTempe]

UW is going to Curbstomp us.

[Merkin]

UW is going to Curbstomp us.

Along with Stanford, UCLA, and USC too. How is UA going to stop ASU's Ballage with an undersized DL and a thin LB corp?

[Chicat]

Damn, Newport, I'm right there with you...its been 17?

Who knew my football fandom would kick off in the basement of Kaibab Huachuca watching the Penn St game.

Telling...

I watched that game in the big room at the bottom of Coronado where I was living. It was really the first Arizona game I watched as a true fan, with my family ties had followed the team before but not that closely. I remember waking up real early for it (didn't it start at like 8am?) and being so excited and then BAM, all gone. Very telling game....

I was a senior and working in the State Museum gift shop. I remember coming in early to set up the store for the day and rigging up the 12 inch TV that we used to demo some dvds, to get reception for the game. Think I stuck a makeshift antenna made of about 10 paperclips into the coaxial jack to get the network. So, so excited...then, boom. We suck.

I was in the stands for that game...

In a promo for the Michigan/Penn State game they mentioned that was their last win against a top-10 team.

Yay...