General Malaise and Complaining about the Football Program

[azcat49]

Then we will agree to disagree. Much more comfortable and all the sightlines are great. It is dumbed drown but hey, its a college venue. 1000x better than what we have. We are 11 or 12 in the conference IMO in stadium rank

[NYCat]

If we do get another new stadium, hopefully it's smaller and more intimate/compact.

Hate these new stadiums that are gigantic and makes you feel small and isolated. With tv watching being better, small(er) is the way to go.

Probably going to have to give naming rights to some corporation, which I don't really care either way.

[EVCat]

Don't know if I'd call the 2017 class loaded when it was #45 in the country.

Annnd...you didn't read what I wrote.

It WAS considered a top 15 class, then fell apart when RichRod flirted with otherUSC and Williams left. How could you miss that in my post? Did you just keyword scan?

Burmeister and others were commits and left. It was believed to be a potential top 20 class, maybe top 15 class, and fell apart.

I am shaking my head at how that wasn't clear...

My post...loaded class, RR flirts with SC, Williams leaves, carpetbagger, players decommit... ...and that was the final blow to a class that at one time appeared to be a top 15.


How did....I just...WTF?

Who the fuck cares what it was "considered"? It was the #45 class. End of story.

What the fuck does that have to do with what I said ?

Actually, my "considered" has a lot to do with the point, which was RichRod was recruiting (if I could slow down for you in writing, I would here) a highly rated class. Which was the question and the discussion .

So when I made the point that multiple factors destroyed that class, including RichRod's own hubris, it was on topic. Then you came with the hot take "how can a class be loaded when it is #45?"

So I made it even clearer that I did not say the class ended up loaded. Which was very clear. But you just see red and lose your shit all the time around here, and this was no different. I simply said it was a good class before the aforementioned factors tore it apart.

Which led to your latest angry non-sequitor.

No one said the class ended up great. No one said having a good class fall apart helped the end product. But the question was whether we were able to recruit off the success, and I am suggesting that, yes, we were having success before RichRod flirted with leaving a 2nd year in a row and our new, hot, young recruiting coordinator left before a single class signed.

[azgreg]

If we do get another new stadium, hopefully it's smaller and more intimate/compact.

Hate these new stadiums that are gigantic and makes you feel small and isolated. With tv watching being better, small(er) is the way to go.

Probably going to have to give naming rights to some corporation, which I don't really care either way.

Dirt Bags Stadium has a nice ring to it.

[EVCat]

I have great respect for EVCat (and I think I have PLENTY of faults but saying shit I don't mean is not one of them)... but I fervently disagree.

I am not giving him a pass and a bunch of extra credit for a marginal year because 'he did it with shitty personnel he recruited.

As for 'what he did with Stoops' recruits"... well RR should have gotten MS on the horn 3 years ago. Because RR did a LOT better with the 'bare cupboard' he inherited than he has with all the OKG's he lured in.

6-6 and a bowl game? That is winning 1/3 of your games against BCS conference opponents. Worth another year? Maybe at the end of a 3 year contract... but not when it means we owe him the balance of his significant retention bonus. IF he goes 6-6 and wants his job back (which he should because he is not getting a better one) ... then he need to defer the balance of his retention payout until Jan 2020.

What he did at WVU? Good luck going on a job interview and pointing out what you accomplished 12-15 years ago while glossing over your (lack of) consistent accomplishment since. He was innovative once upon a time. sow as Blackberry.

As for the 'top 15 class of 2017'.... sorry EV, get real. Don't confuse early season recruiting rankings (for a middling program that fills up early) with an end-of-season reality. Had the class stayed in tact, it would have certainly been better than 45 (maybe high 30's, which he has done before)... but it is not sniffing top 15 (or even 25). No. Fucking. Way.

Finally,,, he IS responsible for that class falling apart - and I am not giving him an asterisk. He DID flirt and TRY to get a better payday when he had not finished his work here and he did not succeeed. The only difference between him and the assistant you blame (who has not accumulated RR's wealth OR have his long term deal) is he FAILED to get the terms he wanted to move. That deserves ZERO credit or special consideration.

That the FUCK has he 'invested' in Tucson & the UA other than the University's dollars to award his kid a full scholarship? He came here for a job (which was the BEST he could get... I see you Tulane) that paid a WHOLE lot better than the one he had in the studio.

He will have been paid in total >$15MM for 6 years that reflect 1 very good record and a carter conference winning % that ranks only behind Mackovic in the PAC era (and that is a program with a mediocre program history).

I am not opposed to grading on a curve.... but I am not supportive of paying B money for C- results.

/RantOver. The prosecution rests.

My responses (respectfully)

I said 7 wins. Not 6. I later clarified that meant 4 conference wins...not talking bowl games in Shreveport. If he wins 7 this year after getting to 10 in year 3, having an injury filled year 4 and a horrible year 5, I don't see firing him. That would mean 4 conference wins, and I would consider that a rebound with what has happened personnel-wise over the last 2 years.

I think his successes at other D1 schools are relevant. As are his failures, though I think a reasoned take is expressed in John Bacon's "Three and Out" as to what happened at Michigan. Again, 3 years of upward trajectory, a major bowl with a freshman QB...that 60% should not be forgotten for the last 40%. Obviously, this year matters. If he wins 7 (goes 7-5) after last year, we would be silly to start over.

He is partially responsible for the class falling apart. His hubris in going after jobs publicly put him on the chopping block. I firmly agree. Williams taking off without a single class is pretty shitty, though.

I'm not considering early rankings. I am considering where that class was slotted historically with the commits we had. But it doesn't matter now. Just noting he isn't just OKG guy...he can win the living room, too. But him beating Oregon back to back years and winning with BJ Denker at QB (no matter who was RB) wasn't a mirage. He has some ability. This isn't John Mackovic being fired by the Chiefs after getting them to their first playoff because he was so hated by players. None of this means anything if he doesn't win this season...which is my point. If he does, he is worth retaining. But only if...no matter what has happened in the past.

I didn't say anything about him investing in Tucson. That was a comment to my comment...

So I repeat...I don't see him as Satan. If he starts winning again, I am glad to have him. If he doesn't, then we start over. But I do think he was a good hire. Sometimes things go bad. And you can't ignore that. So if he loses this season, he has to be gone.

But if he can win 7 games with this squad...regardless of the assignation of blame for the roster? I am perfectly happy to see what he has next year. Starting over sucks, and if we can reasonably avoid it with some hope, I'd rather go that route.

[Spaceman Spiff]

I just don't see how they could do a "blow up the stadium and start over" kind of rebuild. Play a season in Phoenix? The revenue losses to the program would be staggering and that would reverberate across the entire athletic department. They'd have to figure out how to do what ASU did, which was to renovate enough of the stadium in the offseason that they could be ready to play come September. I definitely don't see how they could tear down the west side and have that even partially done enough in time to get things going for the next year. Also, ASU had the luxury of at least being able to negotiate deals with other facilities to play there; there's no UoP or Chase Field in Tucson for AZ to do that with.

That's one reason I tossed out seat backs and heat control. Both of those are limited scope that can get done in an offseason. Frankly, doing those and a massive overhaul of concessions and bathrooms would do a lot for the experience. Being at concessions on the west side is like being in a nuclear bunker that opens to a football field.

This assumes the stadium is structurally sound, bc that is a whole separate issue. I read that UW renovated Husky Stadium in part because it had some major structural issues.

Seat backs is a capacity issue, and honestly I don't see where that's going to be a problem because lowering capacity is not necessarily a bad thing. What I wonder is - do you put seat backs everywhere? For example, what about in the Zoo, wherever that ends up being (if they put seat backs in the lower level east, I would figure they would want to sell those seats and move the students.) The students don't spend much time sitting around and they're pretty active, so individual seat backs might keep them from having the atmosphere they have now, if that makes sense. And do you put seat backs in the upper deck, where the tickets are a lot less?

Heat control is another issue. There's not an "easy" way to do that. Any solution that's able to make a difference on a significant part of the stadium will present a lot of engineering challenges. That's nothing that can't be overcome, but it's going to cost a lot of money. You need something that can handle high winds, and anything that covers that much surface area is going to have to be built up really well to do that. Wind gusts of 70+ mph are not unheard of in Tucson with microbursts, plus we can have several days of 30-40 mph winds in the spring. Any sort of shade structure that would help in the Tucson heat would cost many millions of dollars and would need months to complete.

Smaller and more comfortable would be good. We're not filling it as is, so bigger is sort of unimportant.

On heat, if not shade, maybe a larger, enclosed concourse. Like I said, I think we need to redo concourses pretty badly, and even having an area to get a little ac would be big. The long and short of it is that I think we'd benefit by trying anything to make it more comfortable. Right now, games tend to be long, hot sits in an uncomfortable seat.

[ASUHATER!]

I think 50k is the ideal capacity for us now.

[RazorsEdgeAZ]

Cheaper to redo AZ stadium now or soon rather than wait. Redo sections of east side (seating). Then demolish most of west side, maybe defer South side and dorm. Play couple games in Phoenix, not entire season. End up at about 45k capacity. Sell beer

[Merkin]

Cheaper to redo AZ stadium now or soon rather than wait. Redo sections of east side (seating). Then demolish most of west side, maybe defer South side and dorm. Play couple games in Phoenix, not entire season. End up at about 45k capacity. Sell beer

Even the school I work for now does. This town is so conservative there are no strip clubs, no drive though fast food restaurants, and you can't even buy beer at gas stations.

[Jefe]

Dirt Bags Stadium has a nice ring to it.

Jon Taffer has got to give that place a makeover. I dont know how they are still open

[EVCat]

I think 50k is the ideal capacity for us now.

This would be perfect. Isn't it close to where we were looking with seat backs?

Attendance is dropping everywhere on average...some programs are winning again and getting more, but attendance is dropping everywhere, including the SEC.

The huge SDS used to be packed for the 70's Kush era mercenaries in Tempe, but they were the only show in town, and winning. It was too big for the Wranglers in the USFL, and they were good, and the Cardinals (and they were bad).

The current SDS actually looks (uggh) awesome. We could make the gray mare look good with that white coating everywhere, some new paint, seat backs with some color design (the A like in McKale) and maybe extending concessions out on decks on the west and east side, and enclosing the stadium with some kind of façade, like brick or the color of the offices, on the east and west side (the east side is problematic with the road going through...can access be re-routed to the road between the stadium and sancet or eliminate that road altogether? Not sure what the access points need to be).

The #1 thing we could do is use colored seat backs throughout, get the capacity to 48K or so, and use the plastic/paint of the seat backs to add the color the stadium so badly needs. If the rest of the stands looked like the NEZ, it would be great. And I like our asymmetrical stadium...I hate the cookie cutter, and if we are ever good again, the steep pitch of the upper deck on the east and the stands with pressbox on the west, with the enclosed NEZ, makes that place incredibly loud. We just need some kind of option to open something in that NEZ to get the air flowing...that is the biggest takeaway from that. It is brutal at times in the lower bowl.

[azpenguin]

I just don't see how they could do a "blow up the stadium and start over" kind of rebuild. Play a season in Phoenix? The revenue losses to the program would be staggering and that would reverberate across the entire athletic department. They'd have to figure out how to do what ASU did, which was to renovate enough of the stadium in the offseason that they could be ready to play come September. I definitely don't see how they could tear down the west side and have that even partially done enough in time to get things going for the next year. Also, ASU had the luxury of at least being able to negotiate deals with other facilities to play there; there's no UoP or Chase Field in Tucson for AZ to do that with.

That's one reason I tossed out seat backs and heat control. Both of those are limited scope that can get done in an offseason. Frankly, doing those and a massive overhaul of concessions and bathrooms would do a lot for the experience. Being at concessions on the west side is like being in a nuclear bunker that opens to a football field.

This assumes the stadium is structurally sound, bc that is a whole separate issue. I read that UW renovated Husky Stadium in part because it had some major structural issues.

Seat backs is a capacity issue, and honestly I don't see where that's going to be a problem because lowering capacity is not necessarily a bad thing. What I wonder is - do you put seat backs everywhere? For example, what about in the Zoo, wherever that ends up being (if they put seat backs in the lower level east, I would figure they would want to sell those seats and move the students.) The students don't spend much time sitting around and they're pretty active, so individual seat backs might keep them from having the atmosphere they have now, if that makes sense. And do you put seat backs in the upper deck, where the tickets are a lot less?

Heat control is another issue. There's not an "easy" way to do that. Any solution that's able to make a difference on a significant part of the stadium will present a lot of engineering challenges. That's nothing that can't be overcome, but it's going to cost a lot of money. You need something that can handle high winds, and anything that covers that much surface area is going to have to be built up really well to do that. Wind gusts of 70+ mph are not unheard of in Tucson with microbursts, plus we can have several days of 30-40 mph winds in the spring. Any sort of shade structure that would help in the Tucson heat would cost many millions of dollars and would need months to complete.

Smaller and more comfortable would be good. We're not filling it as is, so bigger is sort of unimportant.

On heat, if not shade, maybe a larger, enclosed concourse. Like I said, I think we need to redo concourses pretty badly, and even having an area to get a little ac would be big. The long and short of it is that I think we'd benefit by trying anything to make it more comfortable. Right now, games tend to be long, hot sits in an uncomfortable seat.

Working up a shaded concourse is a reasonable project that wouldn't be super expensive. I've just seen some people suggest that the seating areas should be shaded. That is a much bigger project.

[Harvey Specter]

I have great respect for EVCat (and I think I have PLENTY of faults but saying shit I don't mean is not one of them)... but I fervently disagree.

I am not giving him a pass and a bunch of extra credit for a marginal year because 'he did it with shitty personnel he recruited.

As for 'what he did with Stoops' recruits"... well RR should have gotten MS on the horn 3 years ago. Because RR did a LOT better with the 'bare cupboard' he inherited than he has with all the OKG's he lured in.

6-6 and a bowl game? That is winning 1/3 of your games against BCS conference opponents. Worth another year? Maybe at the end of a 3 year contract... but not when it means we owe him the balance of his significant retention bonus. IF he goes 6-6 and wants his job back (which he should because he is not getting a better one) ... then he need to defer the balance of his retention payout until Jan 2020.

What he did at WVU? Good luck going on a job interview and pointing out what you accomplished 12-15 years ago while glossing over your (lack of) consistent accomplishment since. He was innovative once upon a time. sow as Blackberry.

As for the 'top 15 class of 2017'.... sorry EV, get real. Don't confuse early season recruiting rankings (for a middling program that fills up early) with an end-of-season reality. Had the class stayed in tact, it would have certainly been better than 45 (maybe high 30's, which he has done before)... but it is not sniffing top 15 (or even 25). No. Fucking. Way.

Finally,,, he IS responsible for that class falling apart - and I am not giving him an asterisk. He DID flirt and TRY to get a better payday when he had not finished his work here and he did not succeeed. The only difference between him and the assistant you blame (who has not accumulated RR's wealth OR have his long term deal) is he FAILED to get the terms he wanted to move. That deserves ZERO credit or special consideration.

That the FUCK has he 'invested' in Tucson & the UA other than the University's dollars to award his kid a full scholarship? He came here for a job (which was the BEST he could get... I see you Tulane) that paid a WHOLE lot better than the one he had in the studio.

He will have been paid in total >$15MM for 6 years that reflect 1 very good record and a carter conference winning % that ranks only behind Mackovic in the PAC era (and that is a program with a mediocre program history).

I am not opposed to grading on a curve.... but I am not supportive of paying B money for C- results.

/RantOver. The prosecution rests.

My responses (respectfully)

I said 7 wins. Not 6. I later clarified that meant 4 conference wins...not talking bowl games in Shreveport. If he wins 7 this year after getting to 10 in year 3, having an injury filled year 4 and a horrible year 5, I don't see firing him. That would mean 4 conference wins, and I would consider that a rebound with what has happened personnel-wise over the last 2 years.

I think his successes at other D1 schools are relevant. As are his failures, though I think a reasoned take is expressed in John Bacon's "Three and Out" as to what happened at Michigan. Again, 3 years of upward trajectory, a major bowl with a freshman QB...that 60% should not be forgotten for the last 40%. Obviously, this year matters. If he wins 7 (goes 7-5) after last year, we would be silly to start over.

He is partially responsible for the class falling apart. His hubris in going after jobs publicly put him on the chopping block. I firmly agree. Williams taking off without a single class is pretty shitty, though.

I'm not considering early rankings. I am considering where that class was slotted historically with the commits we had. But it doesn't matter now. Just noting he isn't just OKG guy...he can win the living room, too. But him beating Oregon back to back years and winning with BJ Denker at QB (no matter who was RB) wasn't a mirage. He has some ability. This isn't John Mackovic being fired by the Chiefs after getting them to their first playoff because he was so hated by players. None of this means anything if he doesn't win this season...which is my point. If he does, he is worth retaining. But only if...no matter what has happened in the past.

I didn't say anything about him investing in Tucson. That was a comment to my comment...

So I repeat...I don't see him as Satan. If he starts winning again, I am glad to have him. If he doesn't, then we start over. But I do think he was a good hire. Sometimes things go bad. And you can't ignore that. So if he loses this season, he has to be gone.

But if he can win 7 games with this squad...regardless of the assignation of blame for the roster? I am perfectly happy to see what he has next year. Starting over sucks, and if we can reasonably avoid it with some hope, I'd rather go that route.

Excellent retort... and presented with class. We are on opposite sides of this one, but I think our positions are on opposite sides of center and not that far apart.

I do not see RR as Satan; I see him as a mercenary. As such, I expect to get our money's worth - and I do not think that we have - collectively speaking,

I am completely dumbfounded by his lack of success on the recruiting trail - because I ageee that he is about as charismatic as any D1 coach in the game.

if he wins 7 games, I am okay with him coming back - but under amended terms. I am not okay with him earning the balance of his retention bonus for a 5th losing conference record in 6 seasonss.

I acknowledge his successes. But on balance, I believe that he inherited a significantly better situation than his predecessor did. If he delivers a worse collective (conference) record (which is the only consistent bencahmark, IMO) than that predecessor, i definitely do not think he deserves a big fat bonus to stick around.

As for 3 & Out, I never read the book and do not plan to. Yes, a 3-5 B12 record in his 3rd season was an improvement over 1-7 and 2-6 in his first 2 seasons. But at MICHIGAN, that is pathetic IMO and he deserved to be fired. All the talk about how unfairly he was treated for being fired after going 6-18 in 3 years in the Big12 (at a Top 10 program) is the stuff of Alex Jones and InfoWars.

And if we are going to give RR CREDIT FOR Hike's early success in Ann Arbor, then we need to give Hoke credit for Harbaugh's early success on his heels. And I think that is ridiculous.

[OSUCat]

The handling of the QBs is just terrible. I am ready to move one to a new Coach. Probably take another 4/5 games.

[ASUHATER!]

Please please please fire him

[TheGreatCatsby]

In the 4th quarter I was wondering why Rich was just raving like a lunatic on the sidelines, at one point he was frantically waving his player on the field to stop, then come here in a panic, then stop....then turned around and yelled at some people, like Rich has lost his mind. How come Arizona can't hire a coach in football who can remain calm on the sidelines and calculate game decisions in the heat of battle instead of losing his temper and throwing any sort of intelligent thought out the window? I mean I'm not saying we have to hire a Bill Bellicheck or something, but looking around college football coaches today I'd say RR has gotten about as bad with sideline temper tantrums as any I've seen. At first Rich Rod was just 50% as bad as Stoops, but now's he's about as bad.

With pathetic quarterback play yet again, looks like RRod's days are finally numbered, I'd say this year will be the last, unless Heeke needs to keep him around or something another year so as to avoid paying 2 coaches/buyout so he can pay for the indoor practice facility.

[Chicat]

When we come back from Boulder with a record of 2-3, then he gets the axe. Let the kids rally around the interim coach for the UCLA game and start the coaching search for real.

[TheGreatCatsby]

Defense played hard tonight. Offense was predictable/unprepared/inefficient/terrible decision making, just continual constant mental mistakes throughout the team. Getting pretty hard to watch our team the past 2+ seasons, like we're circling the drain or something.

[UAdevil]

I'm ready to move on.

[CatMG]

Very depressing to waste a good defensive effort. And even with the inept offense , if it weren't for a few horrible Dawkin miscues, the game was still there for the taking. Sure as hell hope they get it right with the next hire.

[catgrad97]

When we come back from Boulder with a record of 2-3, then he gets the axe. Let the kids rally around the interim coach for the UCLA game and start the coaching search for real.

I'd do it a game earlier, after the conference debut.

Only because I don't see a team with this horrendous level of offensive execution winning another game.

[ChooChooCat]

Yeah this thread wasn't appropriate after the NAU game, but after the debacle that was that final drive he needs to go ASAP. I've never seen that situation more poorly handled ever.

[ztonyg]

So much for me is can he recruit effectively at Arizona. Every new coach at every new program typically does well, because there's a hype and a selling point of "we're new, we're up and coming, we're going to win, come be part of something big," and at this point RR is well beyond that and his recent recruiting classes tell that story in its entirety. He has no momentum out there where it matters and even if he puts together a winning season it's nothing more than a bandaid on a situation that he's gone too far down to fix in its entirety. The same thing happened to Stoops. Each new coach has a narrow window to recruit well and profit off said recruiting classes. RR has gone well beyond that time and hopefully will have left very good notes to the next coaching staff to succeed (hint recruit both California and Texas).

I'd argue that Stoops's last few teams were more talented than what RichRod is putting out there now.

Sure, in 2011 the cupboard was more bare than it had been, however there was a lot of talent on that team. Especially on the offensive side of the ball (decent QB, decent WR corps, great college RB). We don't have any of that right now.

[catgrad97]

They were only more talented because there was miles more development out of the skill positions than what we're seeing now.

And I say that with still-fresh memories of Alex Zendejas and Keola Antolin regressing into futility. We saw the high snaps a lot near the end of Stoops' tenure too, but at least no starter transferred out for their final year of eligibility.

But this program somehow finds ways to keep lowering that bar, and it's getting seriously embarrassing. Whatever happened to our school pride? We should all be ashamed of this constant circling of the drain.

[PieceOfMeat]

...like we're circling the drain or something.

...this constant circling of the drain.

at least you guys still see the team in the tub/sink/whichever container the drain is in.

we've already hit the pipes and are on the way out to the sewer in my opinion

[CatsbyAZ]

Sucks the season already feels over. I was hoping to buoy hopes until Oct.

[pc in NM]

Arizona Football is what it is....

[ASUHATER!]

...like we're circling the drain or something.

...this constant circling of the drain.

at least you guys still see the team in the tub/sink/whichever container the drain is in.

we've already hit the pipes and are on the way out to the sewer in my opinion

Agree. This team is on the fast track to becoming Kansas football.

[MrMeow]

In the 4th quarter I was wondering why Rich was just raving like a lunatic on the sidelines, at one point he was frantically waving his player on the field to stop, then come here in a panic, then stop....then turned around and yelled at some people, like Rich has lost his mind. How come Arizona can't hire a coach in football who can remain calm on the sidelines and calculate game decisions in the heat of battle instead of losing his temper and throwing any sort of intelligent thought out the window? I mean I'm not saying we have to hire a Bill Bellicheck or something, but looking around college football coaches today I'd say RR has gotten about as bad with sideline temper tantrums as any I've seen. At first Rich Rod was just 50% as bad as Stoops, but now's he's about as bad.

With pathetic quarterback play yet again, looks like RRod's days are finally numbered, I'd say this year will be the last, unless Heeke needs to keep him around or something another year so as to avoid paying 2 coaches/buyout so he can pay for the indoor practice facility.

Those juvenile temper tantrums have always bothered me about both Stoops and RichRod. Although he had other problems, I always liked Jim Tressel's sideline behavior. Calm, cool, collected.

[Merkin]

Those juvenile temper tantrums have always bothered me about both Stoops and RichRod. Although he had other problems, I always liked Jim Tressel's sideline behavior. Calm, cool, collected.

Reminds me of Dick Tomey. You could never tell if the UA QB just threw an interception or a TD pass. Same expression.




Sure don't miss Stoops' tantrums though.

[azcat49]

So what would you think if Heeke bites the bullet and pays out RR for a few years of mediocre football but goes all in on building a practice facility and revamping AZ stadium .

All of this done with the premise that it can help them attract a much better football coach?

[ASUHATER!]

I still think that does more damage long term. If we're a 2-6 win team for like 5 straight years under RR, any "prestige" or draw the program has will continue to fade and fade, no matter what the facilities are. When we eventually fired RR then, we'd be lucky to get a sun belt wide receivers coach to become our head coach.

Gotta cut RR loose now. If we lose to Utah at home in 2 weeks I think you gotta fire him then. We have a bye the next week and that'll give some time to have the players refocus with an interim. But yeah, if we look bad in a home loss to Utah, he should be out.

[Merkin]

I like the idea in principle, but not sure the AD can afford to have all those empty seats in the stadium over the next few years.

Attendance is the lowest it has been in quite some time. Only time it has been worse was the Mackovic years.

Back then, the UA basketball program had to support the football program which didn't make Lute to happy.

ASU football went through a similar period when the state had to use tax dollars to help the ASU AD.

The PAC needs to get rid of Larry Scott for one, to get some real dollars flowing into the schools.

[TheGreatCatsby]

^ yea AZcat and Merk, considering your point, one really does need to look at future revenue projections. To vastly simplify things, say if you suck for 1-2 years with Rich Rod and make $10 a year in revenue, and you build facilities, vs. cutting Rod soon (at least at the end of this season) to generate more buzz and ticket sales next year, perhaps you make $15 in a few years and it costs you $2 per year for Rod, then you're still overall coming out better. Plus the fans and everyone else, including the players, at least feel some hope. We're still AZ football, but no reason we still can't be better than this at least once every 3-4 years. I certainly don't see it next year with 0 qb's on the roster.

I really think the whole downfall of Rich's whole system/program is his quest to find the perfect high school/transfer hybrid quarterback, and he ends up with guys who just can't pass. I mean remember Jerod Randall at QB, with the gloves on passing? That was almost a cruel joke inflicted on UA fans. Most good hs drop-back passers aren't going to want to crunch up their body and shoulder and brains in a running QB scheme 15-20 times a game, inevitably getting injured, vs a game when they can pass for 40 times, rack up 400 yards and 4TDs and get all the glory. For instance, Josh Rosen could NEVER play in Rich's system (due to injury or being too wimpy for it, take your pick). But I'd much rather have him dropping back and throwing accurate passes all over the field, WAY better to watch. RIch just doesn't have a system that is all that attractive to a potential great throwing passer recruit with limited mobility, and that severely limits the pool of talent you can pick from.

[UAEebs86]

I've got to think Heeke could feel the apathy in the stadium last night - I know I did. I think that game was for RR's job.

He mismanaged the QBs and the RBs and couldn't pull out what was a very winnable game.

I think he is a dead man walking at this point.

[OSUCat]

Without a new coach, next years attendance will be worse than this years.

Arizona can get a typical power 5 coach. Very few programs can poach a coach from another power 5 school.

[ASUHATER!]

Without a new coach, next years attendance will be worse than this years.

Arizona can get a typical power 5 coach. Very few programs can poach a coach from another power 5 school.

Agree. We win 3-4 games again this year and keep RR, attendance next season will average in the mid 30s. Probably would be our worst attendance in decades.

[azcat49]

Say we beat UTEP but lose 28-27 to Utah. Two close games. Do you fire him then?

[ASUHATER!]

Well yeah I think he should've been fired after last season.

[OSUCat]

Say we beat UTEP but lose 28-27 to Utah. Two close games. Do you fire him then?

RR won't be let go after Utah even if he looses to UTEP and Utah by any amount. At the earliest it will be after Game 6. personally would I let him go after 4 games? Depends on how things look in house. If seniors and other players are still buying in I would keep him to games 6-8. If not, you let him go now.

[EVCat]

So it kind of is fait accompli now.

We can talk about "what if we run the table" and that is legit in that if we did, if course he'd be retained.

But that isnt going to happen, neither QB is a D1 QB, and this was the first time in my life where the result of the game wasn't going to affect my night. If I am lost...everyone is lost.

We could have won that game by double digits with a QB that could make high school level throws. I am positive Burmeister would be starting as a true freshman. This sucks, because coaching transitions cost another year in lost classes.

But you can't bring recruits to whatever that place will look like on our next game. I was willing to wait and see until a loss happened, but, frankly...id like to see RR fired today. Let the assistant who gets the team get the honeymoon bump from a curious Tucson and maybe junior visitors will be sold on the future and how we are making the changes necessary.

But this can't be sustained. A win could have got us to conference with some momentum and maybe 50K for a conference foe. Now? It is done.

I believe Rhett Rod would have been a better option at times. That is the most disappointing part...the QB position

[Merkin]

I am positive Burmeister would be starting as a true freshman.

A said state of affairs for the program where Burmeister could either start at Arizona, or be 2nd string for the Ducks, and he chose the latter.

Those in the know say RhettRod is a solid FCS QB, or lower level Div I, but I was looking for him to come in for the last series after the Tate pick, not Dawkins.

[NYCat]

Hoping we lose to utep to get rich rod canned asap

[BearDown89]

Wonder if there's any scenario in which we can keep Yates on board. Thought the defense was much improved last night. Would like to see what he could do with some continuity and a few years to recruit and develop.

[Sid]

Wonder if there's any scenario in which we can keep Yates on board. Thought the defense was much improved last night. Would like to see what he could do with some continuity and a few years to recruit and develop.

I wonder if any of the improvement on defense could be attributed to Chuck? I might be the only one, but Chuck head butting defensive players before the game makes me believe he's more involved than we know.

Give me a great defense and a pro style QB that has poise in the pocket and can sling it accurately all over the field.

I can dream, can't I?

[TheGreatCatsby]

What is Rich's contract status again? How many years left, is there a buyout?

[azgreg]

What is Rich's contract status again? How many years left, is there a buyout?

Last I read his contract is through 2019 with a basic one mil buyout. I do believe though he would get quite a bit from the shares in that bonus deal he's a part of with Miller and our former nameless AD.

[Merkin]

It was $8.9M before the season started so probably about $3M less if he finished out the season and has 2 years left on his contract.

If there is a $1M buyout, it's probably RichRod's cost if he wants to leave, which most certainly won't happen now.

[azgreg]

Here's a link to his contract extension in 2014 (was that the last one?):
https://2michy3wy0l30d34041dt1et-wpengi ... ntract.pdf" target="_blank

The mil I mentioned earlier is what RR would pay the university if he leaves on his own (2 mil if he goes back to W Virginia).

I've heard those larger numbers but they don't explain where it all comes from.

The current value of the Delaware MLP (Longevity Fund) is about 4.5 mil (175,000 shares at $25.70 per).

[Alieberman]

I really don't see RR getting fired mid season.