General Malaise and Complaining about the Football Program

[HaCats]

Amen Puerco.

It feels so freaking good to be enthused about college football and to have truly meaningful games coming up. And I come here to attempt to read banter and information from fellow fans who care as much about UofA football as I do. And there's essentially two threads: 1) one about Tate being a stud 2) the other with two people bitching and moaning about RR and making the same argument over and over.

Jesus H, barring a complete collapse this year RR is coming back. Next year he has to go 7-5 minimum with a win over asu, and Tate still looking like the answer for his senior year.......or he's gone. Now why don't you get off your f'ing high horse, which every post that you make sounds like you're on.......and enjoy your college football teams season and newfound relevance.

You don't like RR and are such a go getter in life, that 'mediocrity' isn't good enough for you. Duly noted about 10 pages ago.

[Sid]

Every team is going to stack the box against Tate (and Dawkins too for that matter) and start putting faster DBs and LBs out there and make the right angles. Put the fastest guy on the track team on the scout team as QB, so they can work the angles better.

Going 6-6 at ending up in El Paso or ABQ is not going to excite the fan base. Heeke is going to have to pony up the dough in order for Arizona to buy the required number of seats.

It is the head coaches fault than an injury to one player could make all the difference in an 8-4 team v. a 5-7 team?

Yes it is.

Great practice strategy. The only thing thou, what are teams to do when he starts dropping dimes over the secondary? Go watch the replay...the one to Ellison. You can't defend that! Oh, and how about that throw....
You get my point. Not a one trick pony, we have the real deal. KT is showing us all things that we've only read about in books.

El Paso or ABQ? I think the ruins will enjoy either of those fine venues.

[scumdevils86]

Amen Puerco.

It feels so freaking good to be enthused about college football and to have truly meaningful games coming up. And I come here to attempt to read banter and information from fellow fans who care as much about UofA football as I do. And there's essentially two threads: 1) one about Tate being a stud 2) the other with two people bitching and moaning about RR and making the same argument over and over.

Jesus H, barring a complete collapse this year RR is coming back. Next year he has to go 7-5 minimum with a win over asu, and Tate still looking like the answer for his senior year.......or he's gone. Now why don't you get off your f'ing high horse, which every post that you make sounds like you're on.......and enjoy your college football teams season and newfound relevance.

You don't like RR and are such a go getter in life, that 'mediocrity' isn't good enough for you. Duly noted about 10 pages ago.

You're literally echoing the same things I've been trying to say. Almost word for word. so stop.

[wyo-cat]

Machina has turned into a GIF Dropping Machine.

I assume from the friendly confines of the Arcadia Tavern, sipping on a cool PBR while dropping dimes.

[EVCat]

There are also logical analysis beyond the number of wins.

If we finish stronger and the fans are coming back? It bodes well for RR return. The AD will also look at roster, the players who were making an impact at the end of the year and whether they return, the games that were lost in close margins vs wide margins and whether the impact players identified at year end were available for those games (Houston is a great example this year…if we go 7-5 but Tate wasn’t healthy for that game, meaning we went 5-3 in conference games with Tate playing primarily, that isn’t the same 7-5 as if we had started 3-0 vs weak OOC teams then coasted to a 4-5 finish, getting blown out in games our projected starters played. The idea that a number of wins drives the entire discussion is kind of ludicrous for just that reason.

If we finish the season at 7-5, with Tate healthy and starting (or playing the majority of the game vs CU) a 5-3 stretch against conference foes, and we return a large number of impact players and starters, you can say “7 and 5, 7 and 5” until you are blue in the face…the coach is going to be retained, and it bodes well for the future.

If we finish 7-5, but Tate and company beat Cal, USC, lose a close one to WSU, and are pounding Oregon State when Tate and Dawkins go down, and we lose two offensive linemen and a RB during that stretch, and lose to Oregon and ASU in competitive games with OtherTate or RhettRod at QB…RichRod will be back. We would have ran out to 7-3, been competitive in every game, and been missing key personnel in the final two games. The season ended with a letdown, but it is going to be sufficient.

Neither of those scenarios means the AD wants to go 7-5 or 6-6 over and over and over again. Those scenarios mean the AD believes the current staff and roster will win more than that, and be more like the team that was building through year 3 than the teams of year 4 and 5, and that year 6 showed great progress from a 3-9 record that is the outlier.

Now, a 6-6 finish with a healthy Tate and mostly healthy roster that has wins over Oregon State and Oregon and blowout losses to WSU and USC, and a double digit loss to ASU? That won’t likely be good enough and the staff will be gone. There’s only one game difference between this scenario and the other two, but there is a world of difference in the prognosis going forward.

This shit isn’t rocket science, and wanting your coach back /not wanting to start over after a 7-5 end that would reflect a 5-3 finish with Tate at the helm against all PAC 12 opponents isn’t some sign of a desire for 6-6 finishes, no matter how fun it is to shout someone down with a numerical slogan. Upward trajectory, and a reason for fans to believe are the keys to a return of this staff.

And I think the odds are that will be what happens. I’d, personally, be thrilled with a 7-5 regular season finish considering we were 2-2 after OOC play vs 2 cupcakes, a mediocre UH team, and Utah. Hell…it would be fair to throw the loss vs Utah in the finding that the team was starting to play better. Most of us were surprised to be in that game. But whether you agree with that or not, the rest of it still stands…

And it stands to reason that all will be evaluated, including returners, finish, crowd support, and some old-fashioned prognostication.

[scumdevils86]

upward trajectory is at least 8 wins including asu in the regular season next year.

[wyo-cat]

upward trajectory is at least 8 wins including asu in the regular season next year.

I smell what you are stepping in, but I think a solid finish this season with some quality wins and Tate's star shining bright, creates a national buzz for next year which will translate into ticket sales and sponsorship opportunities for the program. Those are some serious metrics that can change a trajectory of a program.

Think about it, Tate is a Soph - he's got 2.5 more seasons of tearing it up.

[scumdevils86]

national buzz and more than 35-40k at games by the end of the year will be most telling for the future.

[Sid]

I'm really curious and anxious to see how our defense plays on Saturday. They got a taste against arguably one of the best passers in the game, will we see more picks and sacks in Berkeley?

These are kids for crying out loud and they're playing out of their fucking minds, I love it!

I don't know, if that doesn't give you something to mutha fucking believe in......nothing will.

[scumdevils86]

I'm hopeful for Saturday for sure. Just have to keep expectations in check...always a smart move for az football fans.

[wyo-cat]

Fuck it, fly high and enjoy it.

It may never happen again.

[UAtrue]

I like RR. Love his passion. And I really want to see him succeed. Even if we had a(nother) down year I did not want to see him shown the door just yet. I've also come to terms with the fact that I may never see us make the Rose Bowl.

Like others, I was going into this season with low expectations, but really enjoyed the last 2 games and am looking forward to the rest. Yeah, I know we've been disappointed many times before and recognize it will happen again (odds are we again will be this year), but what the hell, the games are getting fun to watch again.

I especially like that this time we are not only relying on a single (QB) player to make it happen (although Tate is doing some amazing stuff). We actually have an OL that is making the blocks and a RB corps that can find the holes. And where hell did this defense come from?

Enjoy it. We got enough other crap to be pissed about on any given day.

[EVCat]

I'm really curious and anxious to see how our defense plays on Saturday. They got a taste against arguably one of the best passers in the game, will we see more picks and sacks in Berkeley?

These are kids for crying out loud and they're playing out of their fucking minds, I love it!

I don't know, if that doesn't give you something to mutha fucking believe in......nothing will.

Yup. That's what this is all about. Everyone wants to be Bama, but the magic of coming out of nowhere is amazing too, be it Desert Swarm after 1-1-1, or the 93 season (and the pain of the Cal game) or the 98 season, or when Stools looked to have it floored or Anu, Nick and Scooby beating Oregon and getting 10...

It's be better to sustain those runs, tho, for sure. But it is fun when you are in one

[Puerco]

Amen Puerco.

It feels so freaking good to be enthused about college football and to have truly meaningful games coming up. And I come here to attempt to read banter and information from fellow fans who care as much about UofA football as I do. And there's essentially two threads: 1) one about Tate being a stud 2) the other with two people bitching and moaning about RR and making the same argument over and over.

Jesus H, barring a complete collapse this year RR is coming back. Next year he has to go 7-5 minimum with a win over asu, and Tate still looking like the answer for his senior year.......or he's gone. Now why don't you get off your f'ing high horse, which every post that you make sounds like you're on.......and enjoy your college football teams season and newfound relevance.

You don't like RR and are such a go getter in life, that 'mediocrity' isn't good enough for you. Duly noted about 10 pages ago.

You're literally echoing the same things I've been trying to say. Almost word for word. so stop.

SD86, I agree with your position, but I disagree with the timing of the discussion. While my logical side says you're making a valid argument, my emotional side just wants to bask in the unfamiliar glow of a couple wins. Does that make sense?

[Harvey Specter]

Its still not a done deal. If Tate gets injured and the wheels fall off the cart I'm sure RichRod would be gone and I do believe there are some out there hoping for just that. I am so looking forward to seeing RR save his job and be here next year for several reasons. First of all it means we had a successful season. At least moderately successful after the turd we dropped last year. Almost as much as that I am so looking forward to having the Ass Hat brigade back looking under every rock and around every corner for a reason to fire the coach. I found them very entertaining this year and I'm sure they'll entertain me again next year.

How can you enjoy watching us go 6-6 or 7-5 every year which at uofa is enough to keep your job? You actually want that to happen so you can crow about it and celebrate and lord it over the fans who want more? Weird logic.

We went 3-9 last year. The logic behind keeping RR if he goes 6-6 or 7-5 is either of those are marked improvements.

I see people who want him fired at 6-6 or 7-5 as people who want a time machine to actually fire him after last year. 6-6 or 7-5 is a pretty decent ceiling for what any coach could have generated in terms of positive momentum.

That's the logic I don't get. We kept him after he crashes and burns to 3-9. That is done and in the past. Now, he improves and we get to 6-6/7-5 and we want him gone? Keep him the year he does poorly and fire him the year he does well? It makes no sense.

It makes complete sense if you are paying attention. I think there is a legitimate argument to be made why RR should have been fired after last season.

I understand and respect why he was not, at least part of it.
- RR was 2 seasons removed from a division championship, and had some chips in the bank - OK. That season was a bit of fool's gold, but those of us in the "Results Matter" crowd can't have it both ways.
- It was the first season after making some staff changes, and more time was needed to evaluate success. That's understandable.... but gives only a marginal pass, IF his assistants were entirely the issue, then he should have seen what the rest of us did before the results FORCED him to make a change to save his job. He was not proactive.
- He was Byrne's guy, and (for an ambitious AD laser focused on his own career) firing him would have been an admission of guilt. That's a DOGSHIT reason, but reality rules. He was sure lucky that Bama job opened when it did.

Cumulatively, I think that gave him a "one more year" scenario... because AFTER this season, keeping him around is a LOT more costly... to the tune of what - $3-4MM? The Jan-18 timing of his final vesting period for LT incentive (LLP shares) looms large.

This season does NOTHING but buy down his buyout because it is one less year on the remainder of his contract. AS OF Jan 2018, 100% of his LT retention bonus is HIS; plus, we likely are forced to extend his contract to give the appearance that he has a long-term commitment from the admin so he is not hamstrung In recruiting.

Money matters, and keeping him beyond this season will be expensive financially. And that matters. A LOT.

If he has a winning conference record, he HAS to be retained (and probably extended). And I think he is on that track right now. IF that happens, I will be happy in the here and now - I just hope we are on an upward trajectory for the foreseeable future - and this is not just 'good enough' to be a money grab for him.

I want him to win IF he is still hungry and WANTS to be HERE for a while. I am skeptical... but hopeful. And for those who call the assistant (with a one year cntract and nowhere near the financial nest egg RR has amassed) who bolted for Nebraska a "carpetbagger" - while professing loyalty to RichRod - give me a fucking break.

Aside from being in a position where he NEEDS to look out for his financial future, the only difference between the 2 is the assistant ACTUALLY GOT someone to give him a raise. Rodriguez tried and failed.

My loyalty to him begins and ends with his results... because I believe his loyalty to this place is all about the Benjamin's and he'll be here as long as somebody else with a bigger rack does not spread their legs for him.

Fair enough, but it cuts both ways.

And please stop with the hyperbolic " people expect Nick Saban" horeshit argument. NOBODY on this board has expectations in the same solar system.

But what I have said AD NAUSEUM is "I'd like someone who can amass a conference winning % BETTER than 2nd WORST of ALL ARIZONA coaches in the PAC era. And no, I am not going to read fucking "3 and out". His coaching record since before either of my kids were born is looking UP at mediocre. I had a 1 handicap 25 years ago... but I am not running around expecting any credit for it now.

7-5 (5-4) and I cautiously support him remaining, Anything less and it's time to find another Tony Mason, Larry Smith, Dick Tomey, or Mike Stoops. No John Mackovic. History says we have an 80% chance of doing better than we've got if he cannot meet those expectations.

I am very excited for the game this weekend, and do not want to start over. But I sure as shit do not fall in line with the "path of least resistance" crowd.

/RantOver

[ASUHATER!]

We shouldn't be clutching our pearls and hoping and praying for a bowl game in year 6. By now 8-9 wins should be the norm every year. That's why 3-9 was a disaster and why he's still on the not seat m

[EVCat]

I am the one that called him a carpetbagger because he did not complete a single season.

If he had gotten one class through under his shift, then yes.

But there is a certain ethical requirement to all of us when we accept a position at a company to at least leave the position better than it was when we came in. By bolting when he did, he extended the pain that led to his hiring. We specifically hired him to stop the bleeding from RichRod's mistaken faith in Casteel and some of the damage RichRod did by flirting with every job. We were in a world of recruiting hurts, and brought him in as a young name with a lot of buzz to fix our shit. He was at San Jose State and we gave him entry to the P5....and he gave us NOTHING. Our very hiring of him made him someone Nebraska might hire. We hired him to coach CBs but we really hired him because of his recruiting prowess/coordinating of that task. And that task is a year to year job. By his leaving before delivering one class, he, in fact, did more damage than good.

It would be like if I were hired to come in and develop a process for a bank that would take about a year, and was brought on as regular staff with full benefits rather than a contractor so I might continue to develop and implement further processes, then left for another bank before I completed a single deliverable.

If you think that is fair, then I certainly cannot argue with you. I believe there is a level of ethics in the workplace, including believing I should leave my position stronger than it was when I entered. That doesn't mean I have to stay with the same employer forever, or pass on higher paying jobs. But I really do, and have, if I haven't yet paid off/delivered one single thing my job entailed. I was headhunted by a major mortgage company at a 20% increase when I was a newly hired analyst at a large bank (not my current employer). One of my jobs, the reason I was hired, was to develop and implement a fraud detection protocol and tracking, as well as hire the vendors that would provide us with some 3rd party products (lexis, etc). Major mortgage company called me up, offered me 20% more to come to them in actually what I consider a lesser capacity, but more money. I did not go, because I know the damage it would have done. If they were offering that 9 months later after I had delivered the fraud package and was working on a new deliverable, I would have considered it, but I considered it personally unethical to leave in the middle of the very project they hired me for. And that ethic paid off...the mortgage company was a mess and is historically considered the biggest disaster in that field, and my delivery of the project put me in a position to go out on the market a couple of years later and get a lead implementation position. Without that project, my current position doesn't happen.

So if you don't think a coach should at least stay a year or two (did you think Graham was cool for what he did at Pitt?), that is your personal ethic, and I can see where you disagree. But when Williams failed to deliver a single class in return for his hire and increased profile from SJSU to UA...I think that is cheap, and I do think it will affect him here soon when Nebraska's staff gets blown out the door.

[OSUCat]

Maybe Arizona can win out and RR can go interview for some Other school, again.

[scumdevils86]

That would be hilarious

[SCCats]

That would be hilarious

And might be our best case scenario

[ALASKACAT]

Maybe Arizona can win out and RR can go interview for some Other school, again.

Perhaps Nebraska?

[CalStateTempe]

Maybe Arizona can win out and RR can go interview for some Other school, again.

Lol. That thought has crossed my mind more than one time.

[CalStateTempe]

In fact I am kinda secretly wishing for it.

I know i know bad fan here.

[wyo-cat]

In fact I am kinda secretly wishing for it.

I know i know bad fan here.

Wishing for winning out makes you a good fan. Don't beat yourself up!!

[TheGreatCatsby]

Literally one player (Tate) has completely transformed the Rich Rod saga. The basketball recruiting scandal also dampened the taste for further athletic department turmoil, who knows not cheating and getting harmless non-paid 2 stars looks pretty good about now for 'ol rich ha.

But I'm overall skeptical of it all, for now. But if Tate could just stay healthy it could be an interesting season. IF Rich would chill more on the sideline, dump the stupid confused sideline ranting routines ala Stoops, and act more a calculating gentleman...last game he was actually somewhat better at that...and project a more poised leadership style for his young charges, then maybe I might come around more and especially if we win.

[whatisee]

5-2

What’s the complaint for this week going to be?

[scumdevils86]

You guys are too much

[chiefzona]

5-2

What’s the complaint for this week going to be?

Injuries

[whatisee]

5-2

What’s the complaint for this week going to be?

Injuries

Wilson is made of glass what can you do there?

Fields looks like he’s fine. That was a lot of plays for the defense.

[catgrad97]

Tate is not 100 percent. Hope he'll be close to that for next game.

[Irish27]

Give RR the extension he deserves. Still can't believe some people would be ok with the Cats losing games this year. The UofA is not an elite football program and to have a quality coach like RR, we are very lucky to have him. The haters who think bringing in a young coach would be best don't realize any successful young coach would bolt from the UofA to coach another school in a heart beat. Give RR his extension and be happy he will be here for awhile.

[chiefzona]

RR will be back next season unless he gets poached.

[dmjcat]

Cats will be favored in one (OSU) maybe two (UO) games in the back 5. Should the Cats win one (OSU) and
end up in the New Mexico Bowl at 6-6 does Heeke shoot RRod??

[whatisee]

Cats will be favored in one (OSU) maybe two (UO) games in the back 5. Should the Cats win one (OSU) and
end up in the New Mexico Bowl at 6-6 does Heeke shoot RRod??

I hypothetically think a pig can fly out of my ass cause I ate a lot of bacon for breakfast.

[scumdevils86]

Why the fuck would you extend RR now???

[chiefzona]

Why the fuck would you extend RR now???

Because Heeke is in over his head. He's freaking about the basketball bullshit and knows he can't make a good football hire unless it's Butch Jones.

[azgreg]

Why the fuck would you extend RR now???

Well, we're Oregon and Oregon St away from being 7-5 and frankly USC looks beatable with a healthy Tate. Add the issue of the basketball program and I don't see how you can fire him now.

[ASUHATER!]

Why the fuck would you extend RR now???

Well, we're Oregon and Oregon St away from being 7-5 and frankly USC looks beatable with a healthy Tate. Add the issue of the basketball program and I don't see how you can fire him now.

I can see that but I absolutely cannot justify extending him at all unless we finish like 10-2

[dmjcat]

Why the fuck would you extend RR now???

Well, we're Oregon and Oregon St away from being 7-5 and frankly USC looks beatable with a healthy Tate. Add the issue of the basketball program and I don't see how you can fire him now.

I agree although I believe that 6-6 is sufficient to save RRods arse.

[scumdevils86]

I have passed the point where RR needs to be fired this year obviously. But if there is any regression next year he's gotta go.

[azgreg]

Why the fuck would you extend RR now???

Well, we're Oregon and Oregon St away from being 7-5 and frankly USC looks beatable with a healthy Tate. Add the issue of the basketball program and I don't see how you can fire him now.

I can see that but I absolutely cannot justify extending him at all unless we finish like 10-2

His contract is thru 2019 right? So you don't have to extend him this year, but it looks like he'll be here next year.

[ASUHATER!]

Yea at this point I'll even admit he should at least be given the first few games of next season but if we start next year poorly he should be gone by Halloween.

[OSUCat]

Nah, I still think RR should go. Probably now more than ever. But I recognize that it not the reality of the situation. Additionally, Khalil Tate will likely get RR an extension....

[RazorsEdgeAZ]

Extension, not the $$$$ issue. It's March 2018 where UA will owe RR $3 million in retention money. UA doesn't need to extend. That's not their pressure point. You fire RR this year or you keep him for awhile because they've essentially paid him once March comes.

[UALoco]

Keep the thread...

[Harvey Specter]

5-2

What’s the complaint for this week going to be?

No complaints from me this week. Another good win.

I give the coach credit when the team performs well. You make excuses for him when they don't.

Do you understand how that works?

[wyo-cat]

Extend RR, they have to do it due to recruiting. Not extending him after he has a great shot at P12 COY is bad form, and other teams will use it against us on the recruiting trail.

Quite honestly, the way the young corps of Frosh are playing - we are going to be set until that bubble bursts 4 years from now.

[Harvey Specter]

Give RR the extension he deserves. Still can't believe some people would be ok with the Cats losing games this year. The UofA is not an elite football program and to have a quality coach like RR, we are very lucky to have him. The haters who think bringing in a young coach would be best don't realize any successful young coach would bolt from the UofA to coach another school in a heart beat. Give RR his extension and be happy he will be here for awhile.

No, he does not deserve an extension. Yet.

Get to 7 wins and we can revisit... he definitely will not deserve to be fired, and if he is not fired - I think we HAVE to extend him.

Go 6-6, which is still not impossible (although looking very unlikely) - and I think his ass deserves to be shown the door.

I will keep sounding like a broken record until someone offers a counter with a modicum of critical reasoning. We have NOT 'been lucky' to have a coach that:
A) Has had one conference winning % in 8 tries as part of a BCS conference
B) Has had a worse PAC win % than EVERY FB coach we have had during the PAC era EXCEPT FOR John Mackovic.

The number of people that continue to act like we are back in 2007 never ceases to amaze me.

[Harvey Specter]

Extension, not the $$$$ issue. It's March 2018 where UA will owe RR $3 million in retention money. UA doesn't need to extend. That's not their pressure point. You fire RR this year or you keep him for awhile because they've essentially paid him once March comes.

I really hope all the posters (there appear to be a lot) who cannot seem to grasp this simple concept (which has been covered OVER AND OVER AND OVER AGAIN) are not actually UA alumni.

Because if they are, then my alma mater is even worse academically than the UC snobs try to imply that it is

[CatsbyAZ]

I like RR. Love his passion. And I really want to see him succeed. Even if we had a(nother) down year I did not want to see him shown the door just yet. I've also come to terms with the fact that I may never see us make the Rose Bowl.

Like others, I was going into this season with low expectations, but really enjoyed the last 2 games and am looking forward to the rest. Yeah, I know we've been disappointed many times before and recognize it will happen again (odds are we again will be this year), but what the hell, the games are getting fun to watch again.

I especially like that this time we are not only relying on a single (QB) player to make it happen (although Tate is doing some amazing stuff). We actually have an OL that is making the blocks and a RB corps that can find the holes. And where hell did this defense come from?

Enjoy it. We got enough other crap to be pissed about on any given day.

I can not agree with you more True, every word.

My great hope this season was 6 wins + Bowl to get us back on track and avoid what would be a tough year to go looking for a new coach. As a huge college football fan who grew up on the success of the Gators, Seminoles, and Canes while living my childhood in 90's Florida, I start paying attention to the rest of the national field when AZ starts tanking. Last season was so bad I avoided exposure to every game save attending the Territorial Cup. My great hope coming into this year was 6 wins + Bowl. I was resigned for another 3 season after watching with great frustrations Dawkins toss TWO INTS on potentially game winning drives Vs both Houston and Utah. But these last three games have changed everything. It's really the last two that've got me going; I didn't know what to make of the Colorado shoot out.

And yes, as you pointed out, it's not just Tate. I'm thrilled that the OL and Defense are playing as well as they have since 2014.

I still have major reservations about RichRod's longterm handling of the defense, but overall, I want him here next year if Arizona can continue the momentum toward 7 or 8 wins, albeit WITHOUT a contract extension.