P12 Coaching class of 2012

Harvey Specter · Post by **Harvey Specter** » Sat Oct 15, 2016 10:14 pm

Just watching Wazzu go up 24-7 on UCLA, and wondering how we would rank the collective performance & trajectories of the 4 big hires in 2012.

Those would be:
- Arizona - RichRod
- ASsU - Toad
- UCLA - Mora
- Wazzu - Leach

That list is in alphabetical order by school.. Not how I would rank their tenures.

BearDown89 · Post by **BearDown89** » Sat Oct 15, 2016 11:38 pm

Those would be:

- Washington - Chris Petersen (with two less years)

- UCLA - Mora
- ASsU - Toad
- Arizona - RichRod
- Wazzu - Leach

Chicat · Post by **Chicat** » Sun Oct 16, 2016 5:56 am

Thinking about trying to rank them this morning and I came to the conclusion that I'd really like to see how the season plays out and the recruiting trajectories before committing.

azcat49 · Post by **azcat49** » Sun Oct 16, 2016 8:15 am

I like the job Leach has done up at Wazzu. They were void of talent when he arrived, much like we are now. I would rank them

Wazzu/Leach
UCLA/Mora
ASSU/CTG
Az/RR

At one point yesterday, we had 2 LB 's that were walk on's playing with a DE who was a walk on and we had a TE playing QB and a walk on RB.

Even when we are healthy we start 2 walk on's and 2 former Stoops players on the D line. This Is total mismanagement of our football program

I cut him no slack and hold him responsible for our roster. It won't happen but if it could I would be all for cutting ties with RR.

CalStateTempe · Post by **CalStateTempe** » Sun Oct 16, 2016 8:27 am

How about McIntyre at "Rado?

I'mma gonna get pissed if there are in the RoseBowl given where they where when he started.

KaibabKat · Post by **KaibabKat** » Sun Oct 16, 2016 8:39 am

School - Coach - 2011 Massey Composite - 2016 YTD Massey Composite = Positions Improved

Washington State - Leach - 87 - 19 = +68

Arizona State - Graham - 84 - 38 = +46

UCLA - Mora - 66 - 42 = +24

Arizona - Rodriguez - 74 - 81 = -7

DaddyO'Cat · Post by **DaddyO'Cat** » Sun Oct 16, 2016 6:39 pm

KaibabKat wrote:School - Coach - 2011 Massey Composite - 2016 YTD Massey Composite = Positions Improved

Washington State - Leach - 87 - 19 = +68

Arizona State - Graham - 84 - 38 = +46

UCLA - Mora - 66 - 42 = +24

Arizona - Rodriguez - 74 - 81 = -7

Wow that's bad. Lines up with a poster aboves assessment, just with stats to back it up.

Harvey Specter · Post by **Harvey Specter** » Sun Oct 16, 2016 10:11 pm

azcat49 wrote:I like the job Leach has done up at Wazzu. They were void of talent when he arrived, much like we are now. I would rank them

Wazzu/Leach
UCLA/Mora
ASSU/CTG
Az/RR

At one point yesterday, we had 2 LB 's that were walk on's playing with a DE who was a walk on and we had a TE playing QB and a walk on RB.

Even when we are healthy we start 2 walk on's and 2 former Stoops players on the D line. This Is total mismanagement of our football program

I cut him no slack and hold him responsible for our roster. It won't happen but if it could I would be all for cutting ties with RR.

That's about where I am parked, but I would swap Graham & Mora... UCLA has significant inherent advantages and Mora has been very disappointing to me after a promising start. We can make fun of Graham all we want, but if RR had amassed his record his current fans would be fellating him daily and his detractors would be solid supporters.

Leach & McIntyre (not on the list) inherited complete dumpster fires and have their programs on a much better trajectory of gradual & consistent improvement than we have.

Many of us were vilified for challenging the popular kool-aid assumption that Stoops left the cupboard bare and RR was a miracle worker going 7-5 his first 2 years. That was horseshit.... the fridge was filled with imports and microbrews in comparison to the Meister Braus, Old Styles, and Old Milwaukees that grace the shelves currently. It is amazing how f***ing bad we are.

Harvey Specter · Post by **Harvey Specter** » Sun Oct 16, 2016 10:17 pm

KaibabKat wrote:School - Coach - 2011 Massey Composite - 2016 YTD Massey Composite = Positions Improved

Washington State - Leach - 87 - 19 = +68

Arizona State - Graham - 84 - 38 = +46

UCLA - Mora - 66 - 42 = +24

Arizona - Rodriguez - 74 - 81 = -7

Holy shit that is telling... The only program that has deteriorated and there is a considerably bigger gap between 3-4 than there is from 1-2 or 2-3.

waysouthcat · Post by **waysouthcat** » Sun Oct 16, 2016 10:57 pm

Man do we need a Final Four this year!

Merkin · Post by **Merkin** » Tue Oct 18, 2016 8:55 am

Good read, although Tucson doesn't have the base Seattle does, unless you include Phoenix which has to compete with ASU.

scumdevils86 · Post by **scumdevils86** » Tue Oct 18, 2016 10:03 am

"deep defensive line"

ahem.

BearDown89 · Post by **BearDown89** » Tue Oct 18, 2016 2:27 pm

Merkin wrote:Good read, although Tucson doesn't have the base Seattle does, unless you include Phoenix which has to compete with ASU.

scumdevils86 wrote:"deep defensive line"

ahem.

Yeah. Pardon me for quoting myself, but:

BearDown89 wrote:Those would be:

- Washington - Chris Petersen (with two less years)

- UCLA - Mora
- ASsU - Toad
- Arizona - RichRod
- Wazzu - Leach

"Bringing it back to a championship level will be dictated by our ability to recruit and to develop defensive linemen," Petersen told me.

Chris Petersen can develop players. That's what he did at Boise State. That's what Harsin continues to do at Boise State. And, indeed, that is especially true about defensive linemen. I tried to start a discussion about player development over on Scout Premium after the Washington game, but nobody was interested. Petersen develops players. He coaches them up. Rich Rod has failed to really develop any players at Arizona. Just about zero of the highly touted recruits he has managed to land have turned into anything - Neal, Denson, Ware, Cobb, Griffin, Walker, I'm sure you can name others. Same thing at Michigan. Regardless of scheme, Rich Rod had the cream of the crop available to him at Michigan in terms of recruiting and he didn't develop them there either. He (and/or Rod Smith) is good with QBs, I think. Maybe. Nevermind all of the other excuses for injuries, medical retirements, quitters, disciplinary losses, etc., etc., he really hasn't shown that he can develop players. And he has utterly failed to recruit Pac-12 caliber and sized D-linemen. No doubt about that.

Merkin · Post by **Merkin** » Tue Oct 25, 2016 7:42 am

I do like the guy.

Merkin · Post by **Merkin** » Sun Nov 13, 2016 12:50 pm

Harvey Specter · Post by **Harvey Specter** » Mon Nov 28, 2016 5:53 pm

Well 3 of the 4 of the guys hired in 2012 have now won a Division Championship... and the one who has not is the only one who is not on a hot seat entering next season.

Merkin · Post by **Merkin** » Tue Jan 10, 2017 11:33 am

Both UA and ASU highly ranked, UCLA and Oregon too.

Wish they would fix the font though.

CalStateTempe · Post by **CalStateTempe** » Tue Jan 10, 2017 11:47 am

Being a mediocre coach at a middle to lower tier school in a power 5 conference is a good gig.

scumdevils86 · Post by **scumdevils86** » Tue Jan 10, 2017 11:55 am

yup. all these power 5 schools paying 500k-2 mill per win for their 5-8 win teams

CalStateTempe · Post by **CalStateTempe** » Tue Jan 10, 2017 12:00 pm

Those schools are suckers for paying that type of money, hate to say it Arizona included.

ASUHATER! · Post by **ASUHATER!** » Tue Jan 10, 2017 1:08 pm

after 5 years their report cards:

RR: 36-29 3-1 in bowls, 2-3 vs. asu, 1 top 25 final ranking

Mora: 41-24, 2-2 in bowls, 3-2 vs. usc, 2 top 25 final rankings

Graham: 39-26, 2-2 in bowls, 3-2 vs. arizona, 2 top 25 final rankings

Leach: 29-34, 1-2 in bowls, 1-4 vs. washington, no top 25 final rankings

Harvey Specter · Post by **Harvey Specter** » Tue Jan 10, 2017 7:22 pm

ASUHATER! wrote:after 5 years their report cards:

RR: 36-29 3-1 in bowls, 2-3 vs. asu, 1 top 25 final ranking

Mora: 41-24, 2-2 in bowls, 3-2 vs. usc, 2 top 25 final rankings

Graham: 39-26, 2-2 in bowls, 3-2 vs. arizona, 2 top 25 final rankings

Leach: 29-34, 1-2 in bowls, 1-4 vs. washington, no top 25 final rankings

At this point I'd rank them...

Leach

Graham

Mora & Rodriguez

ASUHATER! · Post by **ASUHATER!** » Tue Jan 10, 2017 9:04 pm

Objectively you'd have to rank Leach last?

Harvey Specter · Post by **Harvey Specter** » Tue Jan 10, 2017 9:58 pm

ASUHATER! wrote:Objectively you'd have to rank Leach last?

I don't at all agree... look what each inherited, and look at the current state & trajectory of each program today vs the day each started. I think he has clearly done the best job of those 4.

I had to re-arrange the ranking after looking up stats... Sorry RR. I think Mora is a disappointment, but I forgot just HOW BAD Neuheisel was - and Graham's last 2 years really hurt him.

1. Leach

2. Mora
3. Graham

4. Rodriguez

**************

1. WSU +13 P12 Wins (Tenure vs prior 5 years)

Was a dumpster fire, having gone 7-38 in conference in the 5 years preceding Leach's hire. They have gone 15-5 the last 2 years in Conference, 17-9 overall. and he has a 20-25 P12 record in his tenure - which is better than RichRod. (I cannot believe he was raised LDS... never knew that before)

2. UCLA: +7 P12 Wins (tenure vs prior 5 years)

Mora has shown improvement vs Neuheisel who was a complete disaster, but is still a disappointment. Prior 5 years, UCLA went 18-27 in P12, 21-29 overall. He inherited plenty of talent, and has built in recruiting advantages the others don't. The team has gone 25-20 in P12 play (41-24 overal)l - but they have gone 7-11 in P12 play over the past 2 - and seem to get worse every year. Regardless of the improvement, getting 6 more P12 wins in 5 years than a bottom tier AZ team is not good enough at UCLA, especially with USC having been on the ropes.

3. ASU +4 P12 Wins (tenure vs prior 5 years)

ASU was 21-24 in P12(31-31 overall) under Erickson. Graham has gone 25-20 in P12, 39-26 overall. That is marked improvement... but his trend the last 2 years has been headed straight for the shitter. Regardless, he is still #3, in between Larry above & Curly below.

4: ARIZONA: -2 P12 Wins (vs Prior 5 years)... Let that sink in for a minute

This has been covered ad nauseum. AZ was 21-24 in P12 (32-31 overall) for the 5 years preceding RR's arrival, and the head coach was fired. Rich Rod has gone 19-26 in Conf (36-29 overall), and the program is coming off its worst season ever, on the heels of a poor one preceding it.

ASUHATER! · Post by **ASUHATER!** » Tue Jan 10, 2017 10:01 pm

What RR inherited was the worst of the 4 besides leach.

Harvey Specter · Post by **Harvey Specter** » Tue Jan 10, 2017 10:13 pm

ASUHATER! wrote:What RR inherited was the worst of the 4 besides leach.

I don't agree, but your statement only makes RR look even worse. If he inherited the worst situation - and is the only one to have posted a poorer 5-year P12 record than his predecessor... then he is a more distant #4 than even I would suggest. The other 3 have shown collective improvement over their tenures.

All I read on these boards when the hires were mad was what a disaster Graham was walking into at ASsU - then everyone became revisionist historians when Graham kicked our ass (and RR's) his first 2 seasons. Erickson did not recruit that well... Graham helped himself with JC talent early (and most here scoffed at him for it)

In terms of in-program talent & inherent advantages, UCLA was clearly the best of the 4 - and WSU was by far the worst. I am not going to argue between UA & ASU, who were somewhere in the middle.

If our roster was so depleted, there is no friggin way Rich Rod could have done so much better with teams dominated by Stoops' recruits than he has done with rosters dominated by his own. The next coach will inherit less than RR did, unless we really tun things around next year.

Regardless, the #'s don't lie. WSU's program improved the most & is on an upswing, ours is the only one to have regressed over the collective 5 years - but like UCLA & ASU, the current trajectory is DOWN.

I used Conf wins because it is the only constant... padding your record with cupcakes in the OOC does not merit any credit whatsoever.

Merkin · Post by **Merkin** » Wed Aug 09, 2017 2:36 pm

CalStateTempe · Post by **CalStateTempe** » Wed Aug 09, 2017 3:32 pm

Pathetic.

azgreg · Post by **azgreg** » Wed Aug 09, 2017 3:41 pm

Hired to get fired.

Merkin · Post by **Merkin** » Wed Aug 09, 2017 3:44 pm

Should have hired the Pirate. Always thought he was given a raw deal.

PHXCATS · Post by **PHXCATS** » Wed Aug 09, 2017 3:47 pm

Merkin wrote:Should have hired the Pirate. Always thought he was given a raw deal.

Probably a trump supporter so that wouldnt work......

chiefzona · Post by **chiefzona** » Wed Aug 09, 2017 3:56 pm

Merkin wrote:

5 of those 10 wins were against pansy OOC teams. UTSA, Nevada, NAU, Grambling St, and Hawaii.

Merkin · Post by **Merkin** » Sun Nov 26, 2017 11:05 am

ASUHATER! · Post by **ASUHATER!** » Sun Nov 26, 2017 11:28 am

Crazy that the legitimately worst performing of the 2012 hires will be the one still with a job

Harvey Specter · Post by **Harvey Specter** » Sun Nov 26, 2017 11:32 am

ASUHATER! wrote:Crazy that the legitimately worst performing of the 2012 hires will be the one still with a job

And it is official... Sumlin to ASU.

Since he would never consider UA, I guess we must acknowledge that were are inferior to our neighbors to the North.

84Cat · Post by **84Cat** » Sun Nov 26, 2017 11:37 am

Rick Kane · Post by **Rick Kane** » Sun Dec 10, 2017 7:05 am

Harvey Specter wrote:
ASUHATER! wrote:Crazy that the legitimately worst performing of the 2012 hires will be the one still with a job
And it is official... Sumlin to ASU.

Since he would never consider UA, I guess we must acknowledge that were are inferior to our neighbors to the North.

This guy Harvey sure loves making bold statements that come across as 100% fact and then are dead wrong

Man, I would just let things and seasons play out a bit before making look how smart I am comments. ASU literally made the worst hiring decision I have ever seen and I think it showed that they are in as difficult a place as we are for football.

Once our new indoor facility is done and we are already starting revamp of stadium, we will continue to be on par with ASU. I don’t think Arizona would be as fiscally unresponsible to fire an above average coach pay them $12m and then hire a guy who hasn’t coached in like 50 years and doesn’t even know what the mascot is.

Arizona athletics is doing all it can to continue to make improvements to our program. If attendance sucks next year again and Rich Rod doesn’t win at least 8 games and beat ASU I am hearing he will be let go.

I hope he does it and if not we will be in a better place then when he took the job facility wise for sure and I think talent wise as our program is still young. 2016 and 2017 recruiting classes had good talent in them compared to our typical classes.

BearDown89 · Post by **BearDown89** » Mon Dec 11, 2017 9:43 am

Rick Kane wrote:
Harvey Specter wrote:
ASUHATER! wrote:Crazy that the legitimately worst performing of the 2012 hires will be the one still with a job
And it is official... Sumlin to ASU.

Since he would never consider UA, I guess we must acknowledge that were are inferior to our neighbors to the North.
This guy Harvey sure loves making bold statements that come across as 100% fact and then are dead wrong

Incorrect. This is perhaps Harvey's first premature statement in the 7 or so years I've been on this board and its predecessor forum. Harvey's posts and arguments are typically among the most well-written and salient contributions on the board.

Maybe you should observe for awhile before popping off about posters.

Scummy Dick Douglas · Post by **Scummy Dick Douglas** » Tue Dec 12, 2017 7:02 am

To be fair to Harvey, there was truth to the Sumlin / ASU rumblings. Sumlin had started organizing a potential staff, but everything lost traction because of Anderson's insistence that Sumlin keep Napier as the OC. Demetrice Martin was one of the coaches positioning himself to join Sumlin at ASU.

When Graham was initially fired I was pretty down on the Sumlin idea. Given who they ended up hiring, I would be all in on pimp stick Sumlin and his team of recruiters.

Rick Kane · Post by **Rick Kane** » Tue Dec 12, 2017 8:27 am

BearDown89 wrote:
Rick Kane wrote:
Harvey Specter wrote:
ASUHATER! wrote:Crazy that the legitimately worst performing of the 2012 hires will be the one still with a job
And it is official... Sumlin to ASU.

Since he would never consider UA, I guess we must acknowledge that were are inferior to our neighbors to the North.
This guy Harvey sure loves making bold statements that come across as 100% fact and then are dead wrong
Incorrect. This is perhaps Harvey's first premature statement in the 7 or so years I've been on this board and its predecessor forum. Harvey's posts and arguments are typically among the most well-written and salient contributions on the board.

Maybe you should observe for awhile before popping off about posters.

Did you read his comments about how great a team WSU and how much better they were then Arizona about a month before we blasted them

Been here just a little bit but both look like pretty dumb statements in hindsight

Rick Kane · Post by **Rick Kane** » Tue Dec 12, 2017 8:30 am

Scummy Dick Douglas wrote:To be fair to Harvey, there was truth to the Sumlin / ASU rumblings. Sumlin had started organizing a potential staff, but everything lost traction because of Anderson's insistence that Sumlin keep Napier as the OC. Demetrice Martin was one of the coaches positioning himself to join Sumlin at ASU.

When Graham was initially fired I was pretty down on the Sumlin idea. Given who they ended up hiring, I would be all in on pimp stick Sumlin and his team of recruiters.

While there was some truth to rumor it wasn’t “it’s official sumlin to ASU” which is really my point

People just need to let things play out a bit

And yes sumlin would be a million times better then herm Edwards

It honestly feels like a u of a grad choose your coach

Login • Register