Dave Heeke is New Arizona AD

HaCats · Post by **HaCats** » Thu Jan 04, 2018 10:03 am

Chief, when you say Heeke was late to the party.........can you please identify when in the past couple of months would have been the ideal time to pull the trigger? Are you saying that Heeke should not have waited for the investigation to be completed? Don't you think it was wise to see if he could save millions of dollars by seeing if he could be fired with cause?

While he waited for the investigation to be completed here are the names that took jobs off the top of my head:

Taggert
Jimbo
Frost
Chad Morris
Chip
Mullen
Smith Oregon State
Herm
Alabama's D Coord at Tennessee

None of those guys were candidates or fits for Arizona so I'm not really sure what the extra time cost us in terms of who the next coach will be.

PHXCATS · Post by **PHXCATS** » Thu Jan 04, 2018 10:33 am

Mullen and Bama's coordinator were maybes. The strongest to maybe come to UA would have been Chad Morris. But I generally agree with your point HA

tgrumpy2 · Post by **tgrumpy2** » Thu Jan 04, 2018 6:54 pm

chiefzona wrote:
Chicat wrote:
Admit it Chief. You like Heeke more now.

No. He was late to the party.

You know I wasn't on the fire RR bandwagon. I would have given his coaching another year but I didn't know about all the other things going on either. I'm with you on this. I think Heeke blew it. If he knew he was going to fire him, just grow a set of balls and fire him and deal with it.

PHXCATS · Post by **PHXCATS** » Thu Jan 04, 2018 7:11 pm

tgrumpy2 wrote:
chiefzona wrote:
Chicat wrote:
Admit it Chief. You like Heeke more now.

No. He was late to the party.

You know I wasn't on the fire RR bandwagon. I would have given his coaching another year but I didn't know about all the other things going on either. I'm with you on this. I think Heeke blew it. If he knew he was going to fire him, just grow a set of balls and fire him and deal with it.

Fire him in September?

Once the investigation started you had to wait for it to be completed. If it was done after ask he would have been gone then

tgrumpy2 · Post by **tgrumpy2** » Thu Jan 04, 2018 11:39 pm

PHXCATS wrote:
tgrumpy2 wrote:
chiefzona wrote:
Chicat wrote:
Admit it Chief. You like Heeke more now.

No. He was late to the party.

You know I wasn't on the fire RR bandwagon. I would have given his coaching another year but I didn't know about all the other things going on either. I'm with you on this. I think Heeke blew it. If he knew he was going to fire him, just grow a set of balls and fire him and deal with it.

Fire him in September?

Once the investigation started you had to wait for it to be completed. If it was done after ask he would have been gone then

It was already brought up that Heeke was going to fire him no matter what the investigation said. Okay so fire him. You don't have to wait for the investigation to be over. They could have fired him after the ASU game just based on last year's record and losing the last four games of this season. Not only that but if you had taken the investigation off the table by firing him for his coaching there is no counter law suit for defamation of character. I know everyone is never going to agree with any one thing here. This mess is so thick now I'm not sure anyone will ever sort it out. I always felt there was probably enough to fire him after last season or even after this season. There was also enough to say keep him another year. I leaned towards keeping him because I hate starting over. Once I found out everything else that changed it all. I do really think Heeke blew it. Should have fired him awhile back.

Chicat · Post by **Chicat** » Fri Jan 05, 2018 5:26 am

The reason why you wait to fire him until after the investigation is over is because if it finds anything solid against him you save the AD a ton of money by firing him with cause. Paying him $6M to go away when you could have spent nothing is way worse than how it actually went down.

btfd16 · Post by **btfd16** » Fri Jan 05, 2018 8:12 am

Chicat wrote:The reason why you wait to fire him until after the investigation is over is because if it finds anything solid against him you save the AD a ton of money by firing him with cause. Paying him $6M to go away when you could have spent nothing is way worse than how it actually went down.

Even waiting until after the New Year saved money.

tgrumpy2 · Post by **tgrumpy2** » Fri Jan 05, 2018 11:33 am

Chicat wrote:The reason why you wait to fire him until after the investigation is over is because if it finds anything solid against him you save the AD a ton of money by firing him with cause. Paying him $6M to go away when you could have spent nothing is way worse than how it actually went down.

I do understand that Chi but to me it looks like they had cause. RR admitted to his affair and there is a verified instance of this mistress and his wife being on the sideline of the same game. Probably in this day and age having an affair won't get you fired. People are forgiving of that at times but flaunting it is another issue entirely. I certainly haven't read RR's contract and I'm not sure anyone else has but there is probably some vaguely worded paragraph about behavior not up to University standards. I would say RR flaunting his affair like that is definitely not behavior the University wants to condone. I think they had cause. They also could have just fired him without cause after losing to ASU. I think the fan base was split enough that Heeke could have gotten away with it and left the sexual harassment out it entirely. The investigation would have gone on and had the same findings. If it had different findings they would have just said he no longer works here. I don't think it was about saving money. I think it was about not wanting a lawsuit that would have exposed a lot of things the University didn't want to discuss. Heeke said he was going to fire him regardless of what the report said so just fire him. Why did he wait four days after the report? He didn't fire him until he got word of this law suit the woman filed and he fired RR at 7:30 at night via email. Put that together with the fact it took them three days to post the new job opening and to me it looks like the whole mess was poorly planned or thought through.

Chicat · Post by **Chicat** » Fri Jan 05, 2018 11:41 am

You have to keep in mind that RR was a state employee. Firing them is not an uncomplicated process.

azpenguin · Post by **azpenguin** » Fri Jan 05, 2018 12:10 pm

Also, even if they fired him after ASU without cause, this investigation still would have seen the light of day. Best to let the investigation run its course. If you fire him and say it's without cause, and then the investigation shows up in the news a month and a half later, that is a really bad and suspicious look. Makes it look like the school was trying to hide something. Wait until the investigation is done, see if you have cause, and then either way everything packages up together.

tgrumpy2 · Post by **tgrumpy2** » Fri Jan 05, 2018 2:23 pm

Chicat wrote:You have to keep in mind that RR was a state employee. Firing them is not an uncomplicated process.

I understand that too but it didn't seem all that complicated for ASU to fire Graham for even less. My entire issues here is if they were planning on firing him anyway then fire him for crying out loud. Don't wait for him to hire a new OL coach that they now will have to pay off and then wait until we're half way through the recruiting season. They wanted him gone and there was a window to make him gone immediately following the ASU loss

TheGreatCatsby · Post by **TheGreatCatsby** » Sun Jan 14, 2018 9:20 pm

Think Heeke came through in the end, got our new football facilities funded in year 1, and hired about as home run hire as he could given the circumstances. Bear Down.

Harvey Specter · Post by **Harvey Specter** » Sun Jan 14, 2018 9:27 pm

TheGreatCatsby wrote:Think Heeke came through in the end, got our new football facilities funded in year 1, and hired about as home run hire as he could given the circumstances. Bear Down.

I am on Heeke's bandwagon. BIG TIME.

And yes, I'll say it.... he is an upgrade from Byrne.

Bangkok Wildcat · Post by **Bangkok Wildcat** » Sun Jan 14, 2018 9:51 pm

TheGreatCatsby wrote:Think Heeke came through in the end, got our new football facilities funded in year 1, and hired about as home run hire as he could given the circumstances. Bear Down.

Well-said Catsby.....Heeke hit a home run here. Extremely pleased with Sumlin....especially after being scared to death with Ken N....ughhh. Sumlin is a game changer IMHO. Great job by our AD with this hire. Bear Down.

MrMeow · Post by **MrMeow** » Mon Jan 15, 2018 10:17 am

Harvey Specter wrote:
TheGreatCatsby wrote:Think Heeke came through in the end, got our new football facilities funded in year 1, and hired about as home run hire as he could given the circumstances. Bear Down.
I am on Heeke's bandwagon. BIG TIME.

And yes, I'll say it.... he is an upgrade from Byrne.

It's sure beginning to look that way. It's also becoming evident that Byrne was mostly a self promoting glad hander, while Heeke quietly gets the job done. Make room for me on the Heeke bandwagon.

tgrumpy2 · Post by **tgrumpy2** » Mon Jan 15, 2018 10:24 am

I personally think Heeke was lucky. Don't get me wrong, I'll take luck any day. I certainly hope he stays lucky.

MrMeow · Post by **MrMeow** » Mon Jan 15, 2018 10:51 am

tgrumpy2 wrote:I personally think Heeke was lucky. Don't get me wrong, I'll take luck any day. I certainly hope he stays lucky.

I think you would have to have considerable inside information to draw that conclusion. You would have to have knowledge of Heeke's plan and, step by step, how it played out to its conclusion. Do you, or do you have no factual basis for the comment, and like the rest of us, know only what you read - message boards, Scheer, Lev, etc.?

BBQ wildcat · Post by **BBQ wildcat** » Mon Jan 15, 2018 11:00 am

MrMeow wrote:
tgrumpy2 wrote:I personally think Heeke was lucky. Don't get me wrong, I'll take luck any day. I certainly hope he stays lucky.
I think you would have to have considerable inside information to draw that conclusion. You would have to have knowledge of Heeke's plan and, step by step, how it played out to its conclusion. Do you, or do you have no factual basis for the comment, and like the rest of us, know only what you read - message boards, Scheer, Lev, etc.?

He said he thought that Heeke got lucky. He never said "based on information I have received, I believe he got lucky". I also think he got lucky and, no, I have no inside information at all.

MrMeow · Post by **MrMeow** » Mon Jan 15, 2018 11:08 am

BBQ wildcat wrote:
MrMeow wrote:
tgrumpy2 wrote:I personally think Heeke was lucky. Don't get me wrong, I'll take luck any day. I certainly hope he stays lucky.
I think you would have to have considerable inside information to draw that conclusion. You would have to have knowledge of Heeke's plan and, step by step, how it played out to its conclusion. Do you, or do you have no factual basis for the comment, and like the rest of us, know only what you read - message boards, Scheer, Lev, etc.?
He said he thought that Heeke got lucky. He never said "based on information I have received, I believe he got lucky". I also think he got lucky and, no, I have no inside information at all.

No basis? Stick to BBQ

Puerco · Post by **Puerco** » Mon Jan 15, 2018 11:29 am

Well, to be fair we could ask for the basis for your opinion about Byrne, right?

MrMeow · Post by **MrMeow** » Mon Jan 15, 2018 11:48 am

Puerco wrote:Well, to be fair we could ask for the basis for your opinion about Byrne, right?

Right. Fair enough. I would have to go back and do considerable research in order to cite specific instances of Byrne's self promotion and boosters citing his glad handing, which I don't have time (nor inclination) to do. Meanwhile, my opinion is based on a recollection of facts, not random guessing as it is with the "Heeke got lucky" crowd.

BBQ wildcat · Post by **BBQ wildcat** » Mon Jan 15, 2018 11:53 am

MrMeow wrote:
Puerco wrote:Well, to be fair we could ask for the basis for your opinion about Byrne, right?
Right. Fair enough. I would have to go back and do considerable research in order to cite specific instances of Byrne's self promotion and boosters citing his glad handing, which I don't have time (nor inclination) to do. Meanwhile, my opinion is based on a recollection of facts, not random guessing as it is with the "Heeke got lucky" crowd.

A recollection of facts, but you can't say what those supposed "facts" might be.

Admit it, you believe only YOUR opinion (not fact) matters and that no one else should be able to have an OPINION without hard facts to back up that OPINION.

MrMeow · Post by **MrMeow** » Mon Jan 15, 2018 12:10 pm

BBQ wildcat wrote:
MrMeow wrote:
Puerco wrote:Well, to be fair we could ask for the basis for your opinion about Byrne, right?
Right. Fair enough. I would have to go back and do considerable research in order to cite specific instances of Byrne's self promotion and boosters citing his glad handing, which I don't have time (nor inclination) to do. Meanwhile, my opinion is based on a recollection of facts, not random guessing as it is with the "Heeke got lucky" crowd.
A recollection of facts, but you can't say what those supposed "facts" might be. Admit it, you believe only YOUR opinion (not fact) matters and that no one else should be able to have an OPINION without hard facts to back up that OPINION.

My opinion of Byrne is not the subject here, but nice try. Back to the origin of this discussion, tell us specifically why you think Heeke got lucky. I'm not saying he wasn't. It's possible, just as it's possible he was smart. I'm not taking a position, as you have, because I have no evidence one way or the other. Neither do you.

BBQ wildcat · Post by **BBQ wildcat** » Mon Jan 15, 2018 12:26 pm

MrMeow wrote:
BBQ wildcat wrote:
MrMeow wrote:
Puerco wrote:Well, to be fair we could ask for the basis for your opinion about Byrne, right?
Right. Fair enough. I would have to go back and do considerable research in order to cite specific instances of Byrne's self promotion and boosters citing his glad handing, which I don't have time (nor inclination) to do. Meanwhile, my opinion is based on a recollection of facts, not random guessing as it is with the "Heeke got lucky" crowd.
A recollection of facts, but you can't say what those supposed "facts" might be. Admit it, you believe only YOUR opinion (not fact) matters and that no one else should be able to have an OPINION without hard facts to back up that OPINION.
My opinion of Byrne is not the subject here, but nice try. Back to the origin of this discussion, tell us specifically why you think Heeke got lucky. I'm not saying he wasn't. It's possible, just as it's possible he was smart. I'm not taking a position, as you have, because I have no evidence one way or the other. Neither do you.

Do you not READ? Or do you only keep repeating nonsense because you can? I have no evidence that what happened was the result of a plan or if Heeke just got lucky. My OPINION is that he got lucky. You seem to want everyone except you to provide evidence for their OPINION. But, since you seem to just discount others' OPINIONS, perhaps you could share your opinion on the search? You say you don't have an opinon because you don't have the facts, but you DO have an opinion about Byrne without any facts. I know you are trying to deflect from your OPINION on Byrne without having any facts, but that is exactly the subject here, being able to have an opinion.

I know I am not the only person here who thought this search had become a circus -- no facts, but from the stuff being leaked, it sure seemed like Keystone Cops. All those posts were peoples' opinions, no facts, just opinions.

BBQ wildcat · Post by **BBQ wildcat** » Mon Jan 15, 2018 12:34 pm

From the Oxford dictionary:

opinion
noun

1A view or judgement formed about something, not necessarily based on fact or knowledge.
‘that, in my opinion, is right’
‘the area's residents share vociferous opinions about the future’

1.1mass noun The beliefs or views of a group or majority of people.
‘the changing climate of opinion’

1.2 An estimation of the quality or worth of someone or something.
‘I had a higher opinion of myself than I deserved’

prh · Post by **prh** » Mon Jan 15, 2018 12:37 pm

Based on the timeline of everything, it certainly seems like there was a lot of luck involved. The gist is that we needed money we didn't have, so Heeke tried to get it from the boosters. When he couldn't, suddenly we started leaking names trying to scare the boosters into it. That strategy was massively overplayed and almost completely backfired. Clearly something happened Saturday (presumably more booster money) that made Sumlin possible again. But considering we went past the 10 day wait period (and had a waiver), it seems clear that Sumlin was never a guarantee and that it took some luck/miracle/something to make it happen.

baycat93 · Post by **baycat93** » Mon Jan 15, 2018 12:46 pm

prh wrote:Based on the timeline of everything, it certainly seems like there was a lot of luck involved. The gist is that we needed money we didn't have, so Heeke tried to get it from the boosters. When he couldn't, suddenly we started leaking names trying to scare the boosters into it. That strategy was massively overplayed and almost completely backfired. Clearly something happened Saturday (presumably more booster money) that made Sumlin possible again. But considering we went past the 10 day wait period (and had a waiver), it seems clear that Sumlin was never a guarantee and that it took some luck/miracle/something to make it happen.

There is more revenue to gameday than just ticket sales. most notably I would imagine in advertising. full stadiums and community buzz and support likely means a broader mix of willing advertisers who will pay more to reach their clientele. This obviously takes time, but I agree that it is nice to see strategic thinking in the AD.

PHXCATS · Post by **PHXCATS** » Mon Jan 15, 2018 12:51 pm

baycat93 wrote:
prh wrote:Based on the timeline of everything, it certainly seems like there was a lot of luck involved. The gist is that we needed money we didn't have, so Heeke tried to get it from the boosters. When he couldn't, suddenly we started leaking names trying to scare the boosters into it. That strategy was massively overplayed and almost completely backfired. Clearly something happened Saturday (presumably more booster money) that made Sumlin possible again. But considering we went past the 10 day wait period (and had a waiver), it seems clear that Sumlin was never a guarantee and that it took some luck/miracle/something to make it happen.
There is more revenue to gameday than just ticket sales. most notably I would imagine in advertising. full stadiums and community buzz and support likely means a broader mix of willing advertisers who will pay more to reach their clientele. This obviously takes time, but I agree that it is nice to see strategic thinking in the AD.

Plus most season ticket holders pay a ticket price and a donation price, so the donation requirement depending on where you seats are wont change.

prh · Post by **prh** » Mon Jan 15, 2018 12:51 pm

baycat, seems like somehow you quoted my other post, but I think this is a good thread for the discussion. Anyways, yes there absolutely is more revenue than just ticket sales, I just meant to simplify it for the point. Anyways, glad you agree and thanks for explicitly explaining those other positive factors.

Somewhat related, back before baseball was at HiC I wondered what would happen if they made admission free. Makes more a great family activity, people spend that ticket money on concessions anyways, etc. Moot point now but possibly relevant for other schools/sports.

MrMeow · Post by **MrMeow** » Mon Jan 15, 2018 12:58 pm

prh wrote:Based on the timeline of everything, it certainly seems like there was a lot of luck involved. The gist is that we needed money we didn't have, so Heeke tried to get it from the boosters. When he couldn't, suddenly we started leaking names trying to scare the boosters into it. That strategy was massively overplayed and almost completely backfired. Clearly something happened Saturday (presumably more booster money) that made Sumlin possible again. But considering we went past the 10 day wait period (and had a waiver), it seems clear that Sumlin was never a guarantee and that it took some luck/miracle/something to make it happen.

I can tell you from experience that to those not involved, many big deals (and this was a big deal) appear to be the result of luck. Many have to be massively adjusted, and adjusted several times, to finally work. There is a lot at stake for the parties involved, and the process of finding satisfaction for all of them looks like confusion to those not accustomed to making big deals. The process is never smooth, and there is an ever present element of risk, however the final outcome is the result of skill (or lack thereof) on the part of the deal maker, not luck.

baycat93 · Post by **baycat93** » Mon Jan 15, 2018 1:01 pm

prh wrote:baycat, seems like somehow you quoted my other post, but I think this is a good thread for the discussion. Anyways, yes there absolutely is more revenue than just ticket sales, I just meant to simplify it for the point. Anyways, glad you agree and thanks for explicitly explaining those other positive factors.

Somewhat related, back before baseball was at HiC I wondered what would happen if they made admission free. Makes more a great family activity, people spend that ticket money on concessions anyways, etc. Moot point now but possibly relevant for other schools/sports.

Not sure how i did that. will try to rectify. Thanks and thanks for the discussion

tgrumpy2 · Post by **tgrumpy2** » Mon Jan 15, 2018 1:07 pm

MrMeow wrote:
tgrumpy2 wrote:I personally think Heeke was lucky. Don't get me wrong, I'll take luck any day. I certainly hope he stays lucky.
I think you would have to have considerable inside information to draw that conclusion. You would have to have knowledge of Heeke's plan and, step by step, how it played out to its conclusion. Do you, or do you have no factual basis for the comment, and like the rest of us, know only what you read - message boards, Scheer, Lev, etc.?

Slow down now, don't get all bent out of shape here, its just an opinion. I don't think you have to have inside information at all to come to my conclusion. I'm more than happy to explain why I feel this way. From the beginning, after Heeke fired RR he told the public they were planning on firing him regardless of the investigation but nothing I saw looked like there was any afore thought put into it. To me it seemed spur of the moment and unplanned until the last second. I honestly don't think they were planning on firing RR. I think they were going to just ride it out and hope for the best until that woman filed her intent to launch a law suit. Now maybe Heeke wanted to fire him and possibly higher up said no for any number of reasons ranging from money to public scandals. But they were planning on firing him regardless of what that investigation showed why do you wait four days after the investigation to do it and why does it take three more days to post the new job opening? If they were planning this you'd think they would have had the ball rolling and it sure doesn't look like they did.
Now for the search itself, it did look like a Keystone Cops routine. Leak after leak with no substance. I think the media needs to take some responsibility in this but the leaks came from somewhere and the logical choice is the athletic department. I can think of no reason for Heeke to want all of that. At the very end we're supposed to think that the job offer to the Navy coach was just a ruse to get the rich alums to pony up more money? Really? Come on, think this through, Heeke talks the Navy coach into going home and pretending he has a job offer so he can make the rich alums go bat shit crazy and then on Sunday the Navy coach announces he is staying at Navy and the alums are so relieved they dig into their wallets. I'm sorry, I just don't think so. Again I think Heeke was lucky and I have no problem with being lucky and hope to God he stays that way.

MrMeow · Post by **MrMeow** » Mon Jan 15, 2018 1:54 pm

tgrumpy2 wrote:
MrMeow wrote:
tgrumpy2 wrote:I personally think Heeke was lucky. Don't get me wrong, I'll take luck any day. I certainly hope he stays lucky.
I think you would have to have considerable inside information to draw that conclusion. You would have to have knowledge of Heeke's plan and, step by step, how it played out to its conclusion. Do you, or do you have no factual basis for the comment, and like the rest of us, know only what you read - message boards, Scheer, Lev, etc.?
Slow down now, don't get all bent out of shape here, its just an opinion. I don't think you have to have inside information at all to come to my conclusion. I'm more than happy to explain why I feel this way. From the beginning, after Heeke fired RR he told the public they were planning on firing him regardless of the investigation but nothing I saw looked like there was any afore thought put into it. To me it seemed spur of the moment and unplanned until the last second. I honestly don't think they were planning on firing RR. I think they were going to just ride it out and hope for the best until that woman filed her intent to launch a law suit. Now maybe Heeke wanted to fire him and possibly higher up said no for any number of reasons ranging from money to public scandals. But they were planning on firing him regardless of what that investigation showed why do you wait four days after the investigation to do it and why does it take three more days to post the new job opening? If they were planning this you'd think they would have had the ball rolling and it sure doesn't look like they did.
Now for the search itself, it did look like a Keystone Cops routine. Leak after leak with no substance. I think the media needs to take some responsibility in this but the leaks came from somewhere and the logical choice is the athletic department. I can think of no reason for Heeke to want all of that. At the very end we're supposed to think that the job offer to the Navy coach was just a ruse to get the rich alums to pony up more money? Really? Come on, think this through, Heeke talks the Navy coach into going home and pretending he has a job offer so he can make the rich alums go bat shit crazy and then on Sunday the Navy coach announces he is staying at Navy and the alums are so relieved they dig into their wallets. I'm sorry, I just don't think so. Again I think Heeke was lucky and I have no problem with being lucky and hope to God he stays that way.

Thank you grumpy, that's good logical thinking. I just disagree. Seems to me RR's alleged sexual misconduct and the revelations that came from the investigation, coupled with his W-L record, indicates good reason for Heeke wanting him gone for some time. I don't think it was a last minute knee jerk decision. Also, there was a delay in implementing the decision because Heeke/Robbins wanted to see if the investigation warranted firing RR for cause. The four day delay could have been due to a lot of factors, including getting Robbins, Heeke, boosters, and legal counsel on the same page. I know that could have been done beforehand, but then again there is a lot we don't know about what went on internally, nothing really.

As to the search itself, this was a big, complicated deal. As I explained in an earlier post on this thread those don't often go together without considerable complication. A lot of parties had to be satisfied, Sumlin, Robbins, and boosters whose $ may have been needed to make the thing go. Not only does a deal like this look confused to those not involved, but the appearance of confusion is greatly exacerbated by the press, message board fans, and self-interested bystanders like Scheer and others.

Your opinion is based on the logic of events as they have been presented to us. I can't fault you for that, however, please consider the sources of most of it, especially the search process - the press, message board fans, and self-interested bystanders. The public was kept in the dark, as it should have been. We know next to nothing materially.

I think we are going to have to agree to disagree. There is an element of luck, good and bad, in all big deals, but they don't finally go together without the skill of the deal maker. I think Heeke wanted RR gone for a long time, and had to sell/work his butt off to get it done. Peace and bear down.

tgrumpy2 · Post by **tgrumpy2** » Mon Jan 15, 2018 3:19 pm

MrMeow wrote:
tgrumpy2 wrote:
MrMeow wrote:
tgrumpy2 wrote:I personally think Heeke was lucky. Don't get me wrong, I'll take luck any day. I certainly hope he stays lucky.
I think you would have to have considerable inside information to draw that conclusion. You would have to have knowledge of Heeke's plan and, step by step, how it played out to its conclusion. Do you, or do you have no factual basis for the comment, and like the rest of us, know only what you read - message boards, Scheer, Lev, etc.?
Slow down now, don't get all bent out of shape here, its just an opinion. I don't think you have to have inside information at all to come to my conclusion. I'm more than happy to explain why I feel this way. From the beginning, after Heeke fired RR he told the public they were planning on firing him regardless of the investigation but nothing I saw looked like there was any afore thought put into it. To me it seemed spur of the moment and unplanned until the last second. I honestly don't think they were planning on firing RR. I think they were going to just ride it out and hope for the best until that woman filed her intent to launch a law suit. Now maybe Heeke wanted to fire him and possibly higher up said no for any number of reasons ranging from money to public scandals. But they were planning on firing him regardless of what that investigation showed why do you wait four days after the investigation to do it and why does it take three more days to post the new job opening? If they were planning this you'd think they would have had the ball rolling and it sure doesn't look like they did.
Now for the search itself, it did look like a Keystone Cops routine. Leak after leak with no substance. I think the media needs to take some responsibility in this but the leaks came from somewhere and the logical choice is the athletic department. I can think of no reason for Heeke to want all of that. At the very end we're supposed to think that the job offer to the Navy coach was just a ruse to get the rich alums to pony up more money? Really? Come on, think this through, Heeke talks the Navy coach into going home and pretending he has a job offer so he can make the rich alums go bat shit crazy and then on Sunday the Navy coach announces he is staying at Navy and the alums are so relieved they dig into their wallets. I'm sorry, I just don't think so. Again I think Heeke was lucky and I have no problem with being lucky and hope to God he stays that way.
Thank you grumpy, that's good logical thinking. I just disagree. Seems to me RR's alleged sexual misconduct and the revelations that came from the investigation, coupled with his W-L record, indicates good reason for Heeke wanting him gone for some time. I don't think it was a last minute knee jerk decision. Also, there was a delay in implementing the decision because Heeke/Robbins wanted to see if the investigation warranted firing RR for cause. The four day delay could have been due to a lot of factors, including getting Robbins, Heeke, boosters, and legal counsel on the same page. I know that could have been done beforehand, but then again there is a lot we don't know about what went on internally, nothing really.

As to the search itself, this was a big, complicated deal. As I explained in an earlier post on this thread those don't often go together without considerable complication. A lot of parties had to be satisfied, Sumlin, Robbins, and boosters whose $ may have been needed to make the thing go. Not only does a deal like this look confused to those not involved, but the appearance of confusion is greatly exacerbated by the press, message board fans, and self-interested bystanders like Scheer and others.

Your opinion is based on the logic of events as they have been presented to us. I can't fault you for that, however, please consider the sources of most of it, especially the search process - the press, message board fans, and self-interested bystanders. The public was kept in the dark, as it should have been. We know next to nothing materially.

I think we are going to have to agree to disagree. There is an element of luck, good and bad, in all big deals, but they don't finally go together without the skill of the deal maker. I think Heeke wanted RR gone for a long time, and had to sell/work his butt off to get it done. Peace and bear down.

Indeed MrMeow and whatever transpired we are in a better spot now and we can celebrate that together.

BearDown89 · Post by **BearDown89** » Mon Jan 15, 2018 11:12 pm

MrMeow wrote:
prh wrote:Based on the timeline of everything, it certainly seems like there was a lot of luck involved. The gist is that we needed money we didn't have, so Heeke tried to get it from the boosters. When he couldn't, suddenly we started leaking names trying to scare the boosters into it. That strategy was massively overplayed and almost completely backfired. Clearly something happened Saturday (presumably more booster money) that made Sumlin possible again. But considering we went past the 10 day wait period (and had a waiver), it seems clear that Sumlin was never a guarantee and that it took some luck/miracle/something to make it happen.
I can tell you from experience that to those not involved, many big deals (and this was a big deal) appear to be the result of luck. Many have to be massively adjusted, and adjusted several times, to finally work. There is a lot at stake for the parties involved, and the process of finding satisfaction for all of them looks like confusion to those not accustomed to making big deals. The process is never smooth, and there is an ever present element of risk, however the final outcome is the result of skill (or lack thereof) on the part of the deal maker, not luck.

Thank you. Good Lord. The notion that this search was a drawn out circus led by a band of keystone cops who simply lucked into hiring the best available coach on the market is patently absurd. All of the crap flying around on Twitter and these boards was just that - crap. This is big business. It's complicated. There are myriad factors and interests at play. Moving targets everywhere that must be knocked down one by one. Multiple millions of dollars at stake. Long term commitments. Institutional interests. Peoples' lives and livelihoods. It takes time. Those are the realities of big deal making. Heeke is a professional with skills developed by hard work over a long and dedicated career.

But yeah, he probably just got lucky.

TheGreatCatsby · Post by **TheGreatCatsby** » Tue Jan 16, 2018 8:11 pm

In today's press conference announcing Sumlin, thought Heeke:

1. Comes across like Donald Draper from Mad Men, and

2. Makes it real clear that he's a big people person for leadership style, collaboration and working together, and RichRod's view of leadership as secrecy and belittling people, culture of fear, wasn't going to work any day of the week with Heeke...RR probably drove him crazy.

Bangkok Wildcat · Post by **Bangkok Wildcat** » Tue Jan 16, 2018 8:27 pm

TheGreatCatsby wrote:In today's press conference announcing Sumlin, thought Heeke:

1. Comes across like Donald Draper from Mad Men, and

2. Makes it real clear that he's a big people person for leadership style, collaboration and working together, and RichRod's view of leadership as secrecy and belittling people, culture of fear, wasn't going to work any day of the week with Heeke...RR probably drove him crazy.

Good post Catsby....loved the Don Draper comparison. This, embarrassingly, was the first time I’ve ever heard Heeke speak....and I was impressed. Outstanding hire and start to his tenure IMO.

I wonder if that tweet about ‘never seeing Heeke as mad as this before’ after the disastrous ASU loss was the final straw. Methinks it was.....surely was for me. Actually the last two possessions of the first half, which resulted in Tate getting hurt, was it for me!

Harvey Specter · Post by **Harvey Specter** » Tue Jan 16, 2018 8:51 pm

TheGreatCatsby wrote:In today's press conference announcing Sumlin, thought Heeke:

1. Comes across like Donald Draper from Mad Men, and

2. Makes it real clear that he's a big people person for leadership style, collaboration and working together, and RichRod's view of leadership as secrecy and belittling people, culture of fear, wasn't going to work any day of the week with Heeke...RR probably drove him crazy.

I completely agree with this entire post, and as for the part in bold, I thought the EXACT same thing watching the presser (and mentioned it to a friend) but did not have the balls to post it.

azcat49 · Post by **azcat49** » Sat Feb 03, 2018 10:28 am

Just very impressed with our "mid major"AD. I know there was some concern that he didn't have the balls to pull the trigger on RR but his demeanor after our loss to ASSU I think spoke loudly.

His moves cleaning up after GB have been impressive and his relationship with Robbins seems to be aligned in there vision for the department

3goggles · Post by **3goggles** » Sat Feb 03, 2018 2:19 pm

azcat49 wrote:Just very impressed with our "mid major"AD. I know there was some concern that he didn't have the balls to pull the trigger on RR but his demeanor after our loss to ASSU I think spoke loudly.

His moves cleaning up after GB have been impressive and his relationship with Robbins seems to be aligned in there vision for the department

Man I couldn't agree anymore! Robbins is a god damn beast. He reminds me of Robert Craft!!!

PieceOfMeat · Post by **PieceOfMeat** » Sat Feb 03, 2018 4:36 pm

azcat49 wrote:Just very impressed with our "mid major"AD. I know there was some concern that he didn't have the balls to pull the trigger on RR but his demeanor after our loss to ASSU I think spoke loudly.

His moves cleaning up after GB have been impressive and his relationship with Robbins seems to be aligned in there vision for the department

He's made a good impression indeed

Merkin · Post by **Merkin** » Thu Feb 22, 2018 5:26 pm

he is def earning his pay

CalStateTempe · Post by **CalStateTempe** » Thu Feb 22, 2018 5:42 pm

Well Just when I was considering moving my some of my college of science donations to the athletic department, yeah no thanks

UAEebs86 · Post by **UAEebs86** » Thu Feb 22, 2018 5:46 pm

When it rains it pours.

TucsonClip · Post by **TucsonClip** » Thu Feb 22, 2018 5:51 pm

UAEebs86 wrote:When it rains it pours.

Its not even rain anymore. It has turned to diarrhea.

Newportcat · Post by **Newportcat** » Thu Feb 22, 2018 6:04 pm

How bad was Greg Byrne.....answer....fucking terrible

84Cat · Post by **84Cat** » Thu Feb 22, 2018 9:44 pm

What a shitty day for the Athletic department

azcat49 · Post by **azcat49** » Thu Feb 22, 2018 9:46 pm

Newportcat wrote:How bad was Greg Byrne.....answer....fucking terrible

This is the real story. When will people realize his facade

Newportcat · Post by **Newportcat** » Fri Feb 23, 2018 6:12 am

azcat49 wrote:
Newportcat wrote:How bad was Greg Byrne.....answer....fucking terrible

This is the real story. When will people realize his facade

I think everyone in Tucson has realized it now. The guy is a complete snake oil salesman. No wonder why Arte hate him

Note to self never ever ever hire an ASU grad to be out Athletic Director

I hope he crash and burns at Alabama

chiefzona · Post by **chiefzona** » Fri Feb 23, 2018 6:50 am

Sorry guys. All of the problems are gone though....at least on the football side of things.

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