Arizona Coaching Search

qwertyus · Post by **qwertyus** » Fri Jan 12, 2018 1:22 pm

azgreg wrote:The more I think about Ken N being the guy the more I like it.

Hansen, is that you?

UofAlum05 · Post by **UofAlum05** » Fri Jan 12, 2018 1:22 pm

splitsecond wrote:
qwertyus wrote:
UofAlum05 wrote:Lots of people who don't know jack shit are seeing a few people pissed and have decided to join the bandwagon. I can promise 90% of the people upset haven't watched a Navy football game nor understand that the Triple Option is not what he will run here.

I've watched Navy a lot because I follow AAC football. They are so well coached it is disgusting. They do all the right things, the play calling, situational awareness, and decision making is absolutely elite. And no it isn't because they run the Triple Option or a disciplined service academy. They are just crazy well coached team.

I wanted Sumlin but it appears he wasn't convinced he could win here despite us coming up with the money. Arizona isn't a desirable job, just face it. Would you want to coach at a place that has no money and half empty stadiums in the second half? Go to games around the country. Arizona football just sucks compared to other stadiums and places you walk into.

I strongly believe the Ken N is by far the best that we could have done.
This is by far one of the worst hires we could have done.

Is Arizona a military academy? No, we're the farthest thing from it! Then why the hell are we hiring a military academy coach? Oh, his teams are disciplined? That couldn't have anything to do with the fact that the roster is entirely made up of military personnel, right?

For all the talk about candidates without lots of HC experience, like Troy Brown and Beau Baldwin, KN is arguably a worse hire, because his experience is coaching at a unique institution targeting unique individuals. How's that going to translate to modern Power 5 recruiting? A blind man can see that it won't.

The "Arizona sucks" is a bullshit excuse, and you know it. We could promote Yates, or hire a P5 OC, because we're at the very least a stepping stone for a lot of candidates. Your posts reek of blind, servile sunshine-pumping.

No thanks, I'll still pass on this shit hire.
You pretty much said everything I meant to say when I said he was trolling.

I've been on these boards for over 10 years. From the UDug curse, NC State Coaching Spreadsheet, Things more clutch than Bill Self, to Shay Binion, and beyond. Funny the guy with no avatar and a low post count is calling regulars trolls. Who are you anyway? I have an opinion. I think people are jumping the gun here and acted silly. I have a right to my opinion. I've never been a troll nor do I feed into trolls.

azgreg · Post by **azgreg** » Fri Jan 12, 2018 1:24 pm

qwertyus wrote:
azgreg wrote:The more I think about Ken N being the guy the more I like it.
Hansen, is that you?

Asstard is that you?

Chicat · Post by **Chicat** » Fri Jan 12, 2018 1:25 pm

UofAlum05 wrote:
Chicat wrote:
UofAlum05 wrote:
Chicat wrote:How do you deride people for inferring and supposing things you think they don’t know....

UofAlum05 wrote:Lots of people who don't know jack shit are seeing a few people pissed and have decided to join the bandwagon. I can promise 90% of the people upset haven't watched a Navy football game nor understand that the Triple Option is not what he will run here.

I've watched Navy a lot because I follow AAC football. They are so well coached it is disgusting. They do all the right things, the play calling, situational awareness, and decision making is absolutely elite. And no it isn't because they run the Triple Option or a disciplined service academy. They are just crazy well coached team.
And then follow up with the following which is based on inferences and suppositions you couldn’t possibly know?

UofAlum05 wrote:I wanted Sumlin but it appears he wasn't convinced he could win here despite us coming up with the money. Arizona isn't a desirable job, just face it. Would you want to coach at a place that has no money and half empty stadiums in the second half? Go to games around the country. Arizona football just sucks compared to other stadiums and places you walk into.

I strongly believe the Ken N is by far the best that we could have done.
That was simply amazing...
C'mon man. You are one of the more reasonable people on these boards. 1) I do know that Sumlin still couldn't be won even when the money was there. I don't ever name drop who my buddies are but yes I do get the info and yes it does even go farther than what my premium (I still pay for) tells me.

2) You out of anyone should know what the follower mentality with social media has done to people. Look at all these people calling the AD office and screaming on social media. Are you going to tell me that most of them by their peers that Ken H was a good coach would do the same thing. We talk about this on the political boards all the time. Most people here that there peers do or don't agree with something and then just go on Twitter, message boards, etc. and act like experts. You know this better than anyone.

3) Someone called me a troll earlier. Which is nuts. You know out of anyone that I never state an opinion unless I have some sort of information that lead me to that opinion. So yes Sumlin turned us down, I know this. Yes I have been in college football games around American and think Arizona 2nd half experience is downright embarrassing to other stadiums I have been in. And yes I have watched Navy a bunch and think they are damn good.
Look, your statement was inconsistent at best, and supposed a ton.

90% of people haven’t watched a Navy game? Silly, especially as someone else pointed out Army/Navy.

We came up with the money for Sumlin but he doesn’t want to coach somewhere with no money? Uhhh....

We got to the point with Sumlin that we had the money in place (meaning he negotiated salary) but Ken is the best we’ll ever be able to do? Makes zero sense. The money it would take to get Sumlin would get other “name” coaches.

You supposed a lot about this fanbase and called “90%” of us out. I’m going to absolutely hit back on that. And yeah, I also don’t like to mention who I may know, but I get info from time to time as well. Doesn’t lead me to make assumptions about 9 out of 10 Arizona fans. In fact, it usually just makes me shake my head at our AD’s ineptitude (going back to Livengood) and feel sorry for those that invest hoping for better days that may never come.

It’s actually ok for people to be disappointed. If Niumatalolo is all that great, he’ll make us eat crow.
Well they came up with the money but you don't think it concerned Sumlin's camp at all how long it took to come up with that money? I mean most programs in America have boosters who will pull $2 million out of their pocket in a sec if it meant winning an extra a game or two.

And yes, the AD's ineptitude is scary at times. The text I got last week was, "Byrne should be in jail" was very alarming when I asked WTH was going on over there during his tenure.

I don't believe anyone watching the Army-Navy game counts as people who have watched Navy Football. Unfortunately due to my ECU homerism I have to watch a lot of AAC football. Would Sumlin been a homerun? Absolutely. Would 50 other coaches besides Ken H been a homerun? Yes. But I have come to conclusion that when you combine the ineptitude that you mentioned, an apathetic fan base, a small market feel to the Arizona brand, etc. that this may have been the best they could have done within the timeline.

My heart just sinks when I think about the future of Arizona Athletics. I just seems so dark when looking at everything. And 9/10 my gut is right and I hate that. I just need to find some positive and I really like Ken H a lot. I've always been impressed with his teams and I think this whole calling the AD's office, threatening to pull support, etc. is a little silly. Its a followers mentality and you know it.

Revolutions sometimes start with literally one person. Everyone else was a follower. What we need at Arizona is a good old fashioned revolt. I don’t care who is just parroting the latest take. Doesn’t mean that take isn’t the right one.

As for Sumlin being worried about delays in getting an offer or counter-offer, I think that’s crap. My buddy has gone dark on me (never a good sign) but from what others have told me third-hand, we could have had Sumlin. Just had to make the right offer. No one has told me we aren’t getting Sumlin, but if we don’t, I have to assume it is because we low-balled the shit out of him.

OSUCat · Post by **OSUCat** » Fri Jan 12, 2018 1:26 pm

Bunch of over reaction, and you guys can’t help it I know.

First, Ken isn’t the coach yet.
2nd, you have no idea if the triple option will be used. Jasper, the 10 year OC, would likely stay at Navy due to his son waiting on a heart and might be offered the job anyways. So...no gueentee that the triple option is in play at all.

The only negative reaction I have see is on this is the triple option. Not a single other reason. Crazy that the reaction is over blown at this stage.

OSUCat · Post by **OSUCat** » Fri Jan 12, 2018 1:27 pm

Raise your hand if you thought RR and Mike Stoops where good hires at the start. Ha.

Spaceman Spiff · Post by **Spaceman Spiff** » Fri Jan 12, 2018 1:28 pm

btfd16 wrote:
Spaceman Spiff wrote:
Chicat wrote:
Between Niumatalolo and Yates, all the players want Yates.

If they hire Niumatalolo, and Yates isn’t retained as DC, our roster is going to look a whole lot like Navy’s.
Like with 10 and 11 win seasons and bowl appearances virtually every year?

Niumatalolo isn't my #1, but he has been a consistently succesful college HC. Yates hasn't.

Players can't make this decision and there's a reason why.
Don't think one 10 and one 11 win seasons against Tulsa, ECU, Tulane and UConn translates. Plus, he only won 7 games against the best the AAC has been in a while.

Compared to Sumlin and under .500 in conference? I mean, we're ok with a midmajor or coordinator, but AAC success won't translate?

azgreg · Post by **azgreg** » Fri Jan 12, 2018 1:28 pm

OSUCat wrote:Bunch of over reaction, and you guys can’t help it I know.

First, Ken isn’t the coach yet.
2nd, you have no idea if the triple option will be used. Jasper, the 10 year OC, would likely stay at Navy due to his son waiting on a heart and might be offered the job anyways. So...no gueentee that the triple option is in play at all.

The only negative reaction I have see is on this is the triple option. Not a single other reason. Crazy that the reaction is over blown at this stage.

Alieberman · Post by **Alieberman** » Fri Jan 12, 2018 1:28 pm

Do we know if Shay Binion has any interest in the job?

PHXCATS · Post by **PHXCATS** » Fri Jan 12, 2018 1:29 pm

OSUCat wrote:Raise your hand if you thought RR and Mike Stoops where good hires at the start. Ha.

Stoops yes. RR okay hire

azgreg · Post by **azgreg** » Fri Jan 12, 2018 1:30 pm

OSUCat wrote:Raise your hand if you thought RR and Mike Stoops where good hires at the start. Ha.

ztonyg · Post by **ztonyg** » Fri Jan 12, 2018 1:31 pm

OSUCat wrote:Raise your hand if you thought RR and Mike Stoops where good hires at the start. Ha.

I was open to Stoops (because anything was better than the dumpster fire that Mackovic left in his wake).

RR was at least a very successful coach at West Virginia even though his Michigan tenure was an abject failure (but even Harbaugh who is in a different league of coaches than Rich Rod is having some hiccups at Michigan). I wasn't overly excited about Rich Rod but I thought we could've done worse.

Ken H is worse. He's essentially throwing in the towel on football for as long as he's here.

btfd16 · Post by **btfd16** » Fri Jan 12, 2018 1:32 pm

Spaceman Spiff wrote:
btfd16 wrote:
Spaceman Spiff wrote:
Chicat wrote:
Between Niumatalolo and Yates, all the players want Yates.

If they hire Niumatalolo, and Yates isn’t retained as DC, our roster is going to look a whole lot like Navy’s.
Like with 10 and 11 win seasons and bowl appearances virtually every year?

Niumatalolo isn't my #1, but he has been a consistently succesful college HC. Yates hasn't.

Players can't make this decision and there's a reason why.
Don't think one 10 and one 11 win seasons against Tulsa, ECU, Tulane and UConn translates. Plus, he only won 7 games against the best the AAC has been in a while.
Compared to Sumlin and under .500 in conference? I mean, we're ok with a midmajor or coordinator, but AAC success won't translate?

Sumlin did that in the best division in the best conference, is a proven recruiter (Navy does not prove recruiting to me), resonates with fans and recruits, runs an entertaining offense, even if Ken changes it, it's a freaking experiment. If he doesn't we're Georgia Tech.

DrWildcat · Post by **DrWildcat** » Fri Jan 12, 2018 1:32 pm

OSUCat wrote:Bunch of over reaction, and you guys can’t help it I know.

First, Ken isn’t the coach yet.
2nd, you have no idea if the triple option will be used. Jasper, the 10 year OC, would likely stay at Navy due to his son waiting on a heart and might be offered the job anyways. So...no gueentee that the triple option is in play at all.

The only negative reaction I have see is on this is the triple option. Not a single other reason. Crazy that the reaction is over blown at this stage.

Is there any precedent for a current HC running one system to completely change it when he changes schools (honestly curious)? Sure coaches evolve but they all tend to stick to their base system.

TatetheGreat · Post by **TatetheGreat** » Fri Jan 12, 2018 1:33 pm

Saban said 75% of success in college football is recruiting. If that's true, how does Ken N sell to recruits? I think he would do great at BYU, but he's not a fit in the Pac-12. We need a young, long-term coach who doesn't rely on gimmick schemes. There are plenty of options better than the names in the conversation. We've discussed them here. Heeke has Buckner'd this search from beginning to end. We should have had a candidate ready to ink a contract a day or two after firing RR.

UofAlum05 · Post by **UofAlum05** » Fri Jan 12, 2018 1:33 pm

Sounds like the AD is backing away from it anyway.

I love Arizona Athletics more than anyone. For Christs sake my entire vowels to my future wife are about Bearing Down.

But Arizona fans needs to realize we are either entering into or stuck in a very, very dark period for our Athletics. Its almost to sickening to talk about out loud. But tons of mistakes were made. Those mistakes would be able to be overcome if Arizona was in a huge TV Market or had some amazing tradition and fan support (like Ohio St).

I think everyone needs to see that if an unemployed coach turns us down even with his former DC on staff, millions in salary, and a current roster he can compete with. Then we really need to temper our expectations.

qwertyus · Post by **qwertyus** » Fri Jan 12, 2018 1:33 pm

ztonyg wrote: We've just become the Kansas of the Pac-12. There's not a lot to like here. RichRod was our Mangino (without the oversize gut). Ken H is going to be like Turner Gill and go 5-19 over 2 seasons. Unfortunately, unlike Kansas our basketball program could also be imploding at the same time.

Every time I think I've seen the worst take ever, someone comes out of the woodwork to post a shittier one.

We've gone to 5 bowls in 6 years with a sexual predator at the helm and 2-star talent. A D-Coordinator who ran a terrible gimmick defense, and didn't recruit.

Not to mention the upgrades to the stadium and academics surrounding the program. With possibly more on the way.

Kansas hasn't been to a bowl game since 2008, has 5 conference wins in the decade since then, and 3-9, DickRod's worst year, was the best anyone at Kansas has managed since Mangino.

I won't respond to your retarded Basketball equivalency. We're talking about football here, on the football board. But, I know reading and rubbing 2 brain cells together is hard for you, so I'll just pretend you didn't say anything.

btfd16 · Post by **btfd16** » Fri Jan 12, 2018 1:34 pm

splitsecond wrote:
btfd16 wrote:
splitsecond wrote:FYI - They are picking up at Heeke's office if you want to call and tell them how you feel. 520-621-4622
hahahahaha love it
I was so shocked they answered. I don't know how long that will last.

If Heeke's line answers, is there a Pac12 number we could call to bully Larry Scott?

RondaeShimmy · Post by **RondaeShimmy** » Fri Jan 12, 2018 1:35 pm

The audacity of hope

qwertyus · Post by **qwertyus** » Fri Jan 12, 2018 1:36 pm

azgreg wrote:
qwertyus wrote:
azgreg wrote:The more I think about Ken N being the guy the more I like it.
Hansen, is that you?
Asstard is that you?

Hey, that's not my name! That's not anybody's name!

At least Hansen could be your last name!

PHXCATS · Post by **PHXCATS** » Fri Jan 12, 2018 1:37 pm

Either Heeke pulled the Ken offer or Scheer is being used

Olsondogg · Post by **Olsondogg** » Fri Jan 12, 2018 1:38 pm

This thread is epic. So much to chew on. It will pale in comparison to the b-ball thread when shit hits the hole at some point in the future.

I will point to sage advice from miller for you all. “Things are never as good nor as bad as they appear...”

Carry on!

scumdevils86 · Post by **scumdevils86** » Fri Jan 12, 2018 1:40 pm

Olsondogg wrote:This thread is epic. So much to chew on. It will pale in comparison to the b-ball thread when shit hits the hole at some point in the future.

I will point to sage advice from miller for you all. “Things are never as good nor as bad as they appear...”

Carry on!

That will be a hell of a day.

chiefzona · Post by **chiefzona** » Fri Jan 12, 2018 1:40 pm

PHXCATS wrote:Either Heeke pulled the Ken offer or Scheer is being used

Both. Hansen was used earlier in the week. Smoke screen city.

btfd16 · Post by **btfd16** » Fri Jan 12, 2018 1:40 pm

PHXCATS wrote:Either Heeke pulled the Ken offer or Scheer is being used

I thought this yesterday. I could see it.

qwertyus · Post by **qwertyus** » Fri Jan 12, 2018 1:41 pm

Olsondogg wrote:This thread is epic. So much to chew on. It will pale in comparison to the b-ball thread when shit hits the hole at some point in the future.

I will point to sage advice from miller for you all. “Things are never as good nor as bad as they appear...”

Carry on!

Spaceman Spiff · Post by **Spaceman Spiff** » Fri Jan 12, 2018 1:41 pm

btfd16 wrote:
Spaceman Spiff wrote:
btfd16 wrote:
Spaceman Spiff wrote:
Chicat wrote:
Between Niumatalolo and Yates, all the players want Yates.

If they hire Niumatalolo, and Yates isn’t retained as DC, our roster is going to look a whole lot like Navy’s.
Like with 10 and 11 win seasons and bowl appearances virtually every year?

Niumatalolo isn't my #1, but he has been a consistently succesful college HC. Yates hasn't.

Players can't make this decision and there's a reason why.
Don't think one 10 and one 11 win seasons against Tulsa, ECU, Tulane and UConn translates. Plus, he only won 7 games against the best the AAC has been in a while.
Compared to Sumlin and under .500 in conference? I mean, we're ok with a midmajor or coordinator, but AAC success won't translate?
Sumlin did that in the best division in the best conference, is a proven recruiter (Navy does not prove recruiting to me), resonates with fans and recruits, runs an entertaining offense, even if Ken changes it, it's a freaking experiment. If he doesn't we're Georgia Tech.

So choices are:

Guy who was mediocre with a ton of resources.
Guy who was good with very few resources.

I don't see the hullabaloo over going with option B.

gronk4heisman · Post by **gronk4heisman** » Fri Jan 12, 2018 1:42 pm

btfd16 · Post by **btfd16** » Fri Jan 12, 2018 1:44 pm

Spaceman Spiff wrote:So choices are:

Guy who was mediocre with a ton of resources.
Guy who was good with very few resources.

I don't see the hullabaloo over going with option B.

Okay.. Can't really argue with that.. Doesn't mean I want him, but another board post conquered by Spiff... You win this round.

chiefzona · Post by **chiefzona** » Fri Jan 12, 2018 1:44 pm

gronk4heisman wrote:

Best Meme of the day. I'm going Walter on Twitter. HAHA!

Alieberman · Post by **Alieberman** » Fri Jan 12, 2018 1:45 pm

This is just how Greg Byrne would have handled this!

qwertyus · Post by **qwertyus** » Fri Jan 12, 2018 1:46 pm

Spaceman Spiff wrote:
So choices are:

Guy who was mediocre with a ton of resources.
Guy who was good with very few resources.

I don't see the hullabaloo over going with option B.

Guys who coach at regular schools.

vs.

Guy who coaches at a unique school, which runs a gimmicky offense.

I'll take the field.

IF recruiting is supposed to be a major concern, and I think that it is (there is NO WAY we improve without getting out of the 8th/9th position in recruiting in the PAC 12), then you can't hire Ken N expecting recruiting gains.

ztonyg · Post by **ztonyg** » Fri Jan 12, 2018 1:47 pm

qwertyus wrote:
ztonyg wrote: We've just become the Kansas of the Pac-12. There's not a lot to like here. RichRod was our Mangino (without the oversize gut). Ken H is going to be like Turner Gill and go 5-19 over 2 seasons. Unfortunately, unlike Kansas our basketball program could also be imploding at the same time.
Every time I think I've seen the worst take ever, someone comes out of the woodwork to post a shittier one.

We've gone to 5 bowls in 6 years with a sexual predator at the helm and 2-star talent. A D-Coordinator who ran a terrible gimmick defense, and didn't recruit.

Not to mention the upgrades to the stadium and academics surrounding the program. With possibly more on the way.

Kansas hasn't been to a bowl game since 2008, has 5 conference wins in the decade since then, and 3-9, DickRod's worst year, was the best anyone at Kansas has managed since Mangino.

I won't respond to your retarded Basketball equivalency. We're talking about football here, on the football board. But, I know reading and rubbing 2 brain cells together is hard for you, so I'll just pretend you didn't say anything.

Thanks for the insults.

I was comparing RichRod to Mangino.

RichRod:

Arizona Wildcats (Pac-12 Conference) (2012–2017)
2012 Arizona 8–5 4–5 4th (South) W New Mexico
2013 Arizona 8–5 4–5 4th (South) W AdvoCare V100
2014 Arizona 10–4 7–2 1st (South) L Fiesta† 17 19
2015 Arizona 7–6 3–6 5th (South) W New Mexico
2016 Arizona 3–9 1–8 6th (South)
2017 Arizona 7–6 5–4 3rd (South) L Foster Farms
Arizona: 43–35 24–30

Mangino:

Kansas Jayhawks (Big 12 Conference) (2002–2009)
2002 Kansas 2–10 0–8 6th (North)
2003 Kansas 6–7 3–5 T–4th (North) L Tangerine
2004 Kansas 4–7 2–6 T–5th (North)
2005 Kansas 7–5 3–5 5th (North) W Fort Worth
2006 Kansas 6–6 3–5 4th (North)
2007 Kansas 12–1 7–1 T–1st (North) W Orange† 7 7
2008 Kansas 8–5 4–4 3rd (North) W Insight
2009 Kansas 5–7 1–7 6th (North)
Kansas: 50–48 23–41

Looking at their respective records they look very comparable (with a slight edge to RR). Then look what happened to Kansas after they fired Mangino and hired Turner Gill. They've been a complete dumpster fire ever since. Ken N is a better coach than Turner Gill but is a massive dropoff. I'd have rather taken a P5 coordinator (which we could've gotten with the money we're throwing around).

EVCat · Post by **EVCat** » Fri Jan 12, 2018 1:51 pm

He is not going to run the triple option here.

I can't really put this in a love/like/dislike/hate category because, quite frankly, I don't know enough about the guy to know whether he would work out. Obviously he is not going to do the same things he did at Navy. We aren't going to recruit undersized engineers with amazing discipline to run a 1980's offense. I assume he has some ability beyond Navy, some history?

I think it would be pretty silly to come unglued over this. Sanford? That would be "unglued" time...a guy who was mediocre with Notre Dame resources then went to a generally dominant mid level program and went 6-7, parlaying that into our job. That would be "hate".

I doubt Heeke is just an idiot. So why here, not Baldwin (forget Sumlin...that was always going to be based on whether we could make it happen, and we couldn't?). I am willing to hear why this is great. I know some long timers with a lot of ties to our program/boosters who are not of the "funding this" level but of the "hang with those guys" level who are thrilled about this if it gets announced. Think it is a frickin home run. Then I read here it is Armageddon, the end of Arizona football...

and I think...no, nope. When opinion I respect is that varied, something is not right. One side is missing something big here...

And, frankly...the people who love it are people I really respect and who have a ton of knowledge of this process and have been tight with our program through many regimes, so they are not regime-loyal types.

So I am confused. Maybe it will all make itself obvious...

CalStateTempe · Post by **CalStateTempe** » Fri Jan 12, 2018 1:56 pm

So nothings changed. Ugh

RondaeShimmy · Post by **RondaeShimmy** » Fri Jan 12, 2018 1:58 pm

RondaeShimmy wrote:The audacity of hope

Hopefully heeke saw some fan reaction and a couple booster calls and backed out

PHXCATS · Post by **PHXCATS** » Fri Jan 12, 2018 1:58 pm

Baldwin announced tomorrow is my feeling.

Sumlin cooled for whatever reason, if we couldnt get enough cash or he was upset how hard it was to get the cash or he turned down lots of cash whatever, and after the Rincon Market "sighting" then it was Baldwin but something needed to sell this to the fanbase so Heeke used Scheer.

btfd16 · Post by **btfd16** » Fri Jan 12, 2018 1:59 pm

EVCat wrote:He is not going to run the triple option here.

I can't really put this in a love/like/dislike/hate category because, quite frankly, I don't know enough about the guy to know whether he would work out. Obviously he is not going to do the same things he did at Navy. We aren't going to recruit undersized engineers with amazing discipline to run a 1980's offense. I assume he has some ability beyond Navy, some history?

I think it would be pretty silly to come unglued over this. Sanford? That would be "unglued" time...a guy who was mediocre with Notre Dame resources then went to a generally dominant mid level program and went 6-7, parlaying that into our job. That would be "hate".

I doubt Heeke is just an idiot. So why here, not Baldwin (forget Sumlin...that was always going to be based on whether we could make it happen, and we couldn't?). I am willing to hear why this is great. I know some long timers with a lot of ties to our program/boosters who are not of the "funding this" level but of the "hang with those guys" level who are thrilled about this if it gets announced. Think it is a frickin home run. Then I read here it is Armageddon, the end of Arizona football...

and I think...no, nope. When opinion I respect is that varied, something is not right. One side is missing something big here...

And, frankly...the people who love it are people I really respect and who have a ton of knowledge of this process and have been tight with our program through many regimes, so they are not regime-loyal types.

So I am confused. Maybe it will all make itself obvious...

I don't disagree with your post by any means, and no disrespect meant to the people you respect, but I don't really care what "long timers" get excited for. The name of the game is recruiting, and if recruits can't get excited for a hire, then I don't think it was a successful hire. Just look at Christian Young's tweet for example. Even throw out current players cause I know we can't make a hire based off them, but when the recruits don't get excited, I feel something is wrong. Niumatalolo could very well prove me wrong and I will be very excited for him if he does because he seems like a great, loyal, stand up guy, but I want wins and recruits.

qwertyus · Post by **qwertyus** » Fri Jan 12, 2018 2:01 pm

ztonyg wrote:
qwertyus wrote:
ztonyg wrote: We've just become the Kansas of the Pac-12. There's not a lot to like here. RichRod was our Mangino (without the oversize gut). Ken H is going to be like Turner Gill and go 5-19 over 2 seasons. Unfortunately, unlike Kansas our basketball program could also be imploding at the same time.
Every time I think I've seen the worst take ever, someone comes out of the woodwork to post a shittier one.

We've gone to 5 bowls in 6 years with a sexual predator at the helm and 2-star talent. A D-Coordinator who ran a terrible gimmick defense, and didn't recruit.

Not to mention the upgrades to the stadium and academics surrounding the program. With possibly more on the way.

Kansas hasn't been to a bowl game since 2008, has 5 conference wins in the decade since then, and 3-9, DickRod's worst year, was the best anyone at Kansas has managed since Mangino.

I won't respond to your retarded Basketball equivalency. We're talking about football here, on the football board. But, I know reading and rubbing 2 brain cells together is hard for you, so I'll just pretend you didn't say anything.
Thanks for the insults.

I was comparing RichRod to Mangino.

RichRod:

Arizona Wildcats (Pac-12 Conference) (2012–2017)
2012 Arizona 8–5 4–5 4th (South) W New Mexico
2013 Arizona 8–5 4–5 4th (South) W AdvoCare V100
2014 Arizona 10–4 7–2 1st (South) L Fiesta† 17 19
2015 Arizona 7–6 3–6 5th (South) W New Mexico
2016 Arizona 3–9 1–8 6th (South)
2017 Arizona 7–6 5–4 3rd (South) L Foster Farms
Arizona: 43–35 24–30

Mangino:

Kansas Jayhawks (Big 12 Conference) (2002–2009)
2002 Kansas 2–10 0–8 6th (North)
2003 Kansas 6–7 3–5 T–4th (North) L Tangerine
2004 Kansas 4–7 2–6 T–5th (North)
2005 Kansas 7–5 3–5 5th (North) W Fort Worth
2006 Kansas 6–6 3–5 4th (North)
2007 Kansas 12–1 7–1 T–1st (North) W Orange† 7 7
2008 Kansas 8–5 4–4 3rd (North) W Insight
2009 Kansas 5–7 1–7 6th (North)
Kansas: 50–48 23–41

Looking at their respective records they look very comparable (with a slight edge to RR). Then look what happened to Kansas after they fired Mangino and hired Turner Gill. They've been a complete dumpster fire ever since. Ken N is a better coach than Turner Gill but is a massive dropoff. I'd have rather taken a P5 coordinator (which we could've gotten with the money we're throwing around).

You still miss the point. Mangino is like Rich Rod in that they both had a single very good season (Mangino's was obviously better).

But then the similarities mostly end.

Arizona is not a dumpster fire of a football program. Prior to Mangino, Kansas hadn't been to a bowl game since 1995 and they routinely go many years without bowl games. Since joining the PAC10/12, we've been to 18 Bowl games, the longest drought being 5 years with Larry Smith. Kansas, meanwhile, has gone to 7 bowls in that time frame, 4 of them under Mangino. Kansas routinely loses almost all of their conference games, and is the doormat of the Big12. We're certainly not there yet, but we're historically a much better team, and recently a much better team. If we had never had competitive teams in my lifetime, maybe the comparison would stick, but we've had some good teams since joining the PAC.

chiefzona · Post by **chiefzona** » Fri Jan 12, 2018 2:02 pm

PHXCATS wrote:Baldwin announced tomorrow is my feeling.

Sumlin cooled for whatever reason, if we couldnt get enough cash or he was upset how hard it was to get the cash or he turned down lots of cash whatever, and after the Rincon Market "sighting" then it was Baldwin but something needed to sell this to the fanbase so Heeke used Scheer.

Baldwin is his safest bet. Sumlin is still in play. Mazzone is stalling. This will shape up at some point tonight or tomorrow. Poor Scheer. He's struck out twice. Hansen ain't no better. Lev has stayed outta the fray for the most part. Finley bit like a hungry Marlin.

EVCat · Post by **EVCat** » Fri Jan 12, 2018 2:05 pm

btfd16 wrote:
EVCat wrote:He is not going to run the triple option here.

I can't really put this in a love/like/dislike/hate category because, quite frankly, I don't know enough about the guy to know whether he would work out. Obviously he is not going to do the same things he did at Navy. We aren't going to recruit undersized engineers with amazing discipline to run a 1980's offense. I assume he has some ability beyond Navy, some history?

I think it would be pretty silly to come unglued over this. Sanford? That would be "unglued" time...a guy who was mediocre with Notre Dame resources then went to a generally dominant mid level program and went 6-7, parlaying that into our job. That would be "hate".

I doubt Heeke is just an idiot. So why here, not Baldwin (forget Sumlin...that was always going to be based on whether we could make it happen, and we couldn't?). I am willing to hear why this is great. I know some long timers with a lot of ties to our program/boosters who are not of the "funding this" level but of the "hang with those guys" level who are thrilled about this if it gets announced. Think it is a frickin home run. Then I read here it is Armageddon, the end of Arizona football...

and I think...no, nope. When opinion I respect is that varied, something is not right. One side is missing something big here...

And, frankly...the people who love it are people I really respect and who have a ton of knowledge of this process and have been tight with our program through many regimes, so they are not regime-loyal types.

So I am confused. Maybe it will all make itself obvious...
I don't disagree with your post by any means, and no disrespect meant to the people you respect, but I don't really care what "long timers" get excited for. The name of the game is recruiting, and if recruits can't get excited for a hire, then I don't think it was a successful hire. Just look at Christian Young's tweet for example. Even throw out current players cause I know we can't make a hire based off them, but when the recruits don't get excited, I feel something is wrong. Niumatalolo could very well prove me wrong and I will be very excited for him if he does because he seems like a great, loyal, stand up guy, but I want wins and recruits.

And all of that is exactly why I don't automatically go "these people are really connected and they like it, so I do too.".

I am torn.

TatetheGreat · Post by **TatetheGreat** » Fri Jan 12, 2018 2:05 pm

Hire Tedy Bruschi's agent as AD, Tedy as HC/CEO, keep Yates as DC, with Hunley as DL and Cecil as DB coach. Tate runs the offense.

btfd16 · Post by **btfd16** » Fri Jan 12, 2018 2:06 pm

chiefzona wrote:
PHXCATS wrote:Baldwin announced tomorrow is my feeling.

Sumlin cooled for whatever reason, if we couldnt get enough cash or he was upset how hard it was to get the cash or he turned down lots of cash whatever, and after the Rincon Market "sighting" then it was Baldwin but something needed to sell this to the fanbase so Heeke used Scheer.

Baldwin is his safest bet. Sumlin is still in play. Mazzone is stalling. This will shape up at some point tonight or tomorrow. Poor Scheer. He's struck out twice. Hansen ain't no better. Lev has stayed outta the fray for the most part. Finley bit like a hungry Marlin.

That slick sonuvabitch Heeke did it. He's making me pray for Baldwin.

chiefzona · Post by **chiefzona** » Fri Jan 12, 2018 2:06 pm

TatetheGreat wrote:Hire Tedy Bruschi's agent as AD, Tedy as HC/CEO, keep Yates as DC, with Hunley as DL and Cecil as DB coach. Tate runs the offense.

God no. ASU all over again.

Gilbertcat · Post by **Gilbertcat** » Fri Jan 12, 2018 2:07 pm

Denker as OC. Perfect lol

tuctowncat · Post by **tuctowncat** » Fri Jan 12, 2018 2:09 pm

I don't even know what to think anymore. Let's just get someone to actually accept the job and then go from there.

scumdevils86 · Post by **scumdevils86** » Fri Jan 12, 2018 2:09 pm

the beej

RondaeShimmy · Post by **RondaeShimmy** » Fri Jan 12, 2018 2:12 pm

UofAlum05 · Post by **UofAlum05** » Fri Jan 12, 2018 2:13 pm

chiefzona wrote:
PHXCATS wrote:Baldwin announced tomorrow is my feeling.

Sumlin cooled for whatever reason, if we couldnt get enough cash or he was upset how hard it was to get the cash or he turned down lots of cash whatever, and after the Rincon Market "sighting" then it was Baldwin but something needed to sell this to the fanbase so Heeke used Scheer.

Baldwin is his safest bet. Sumlin is still in play. Mazzone is stalling. This will shape up at some point tonight or tomorrow. Poor Scheer. He's struck out twice. Hansen ain't no better. Lev has stayed outta the fray for the most part. Finley bit like a hungry Marlin.

Mazzone stalling taking the Texas job?

RondaeShimmy · Post by **RondaeShimmy** » Fri Jan 12, 2018 2:15 pm

UofAlum05 wrote:
chiefzona wrote:
PHXCATS wrote:Baldwin announced tomorrow is my feeling.

Sumlin cooled for whatever reason, if we couldnt get enough cash or he was upset how hard it was to get the cash or he turned down lots of cash whatever, and after the Rincon Market "sighting" then it was Baldwin but something needed to sell this to the fanbase so Heeke used Scheer.

Baldwin is his safest bet. Sumlin is still in play. Mazzone is stalling. This will shape up at some point tonight or tomorrow. Poor Scheer. He's struck out twice. Hansen ain't no better. Lev has stayed outta the fray for the most part. Finley bit like a hungry Marlin.
Mazzone stalling taking the Texas job?

Post above yours

RondaeShimmy wrote:

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