Is Graham a better coach than Rich Rod?

[Puerco]

You are going to believe what you want to believe, the trouble is that it is not close to being the truth. If you were to find out the truth, it would disappoint you, so it is easier to keep believing in those fairy tales......

If you say it enough it comes true?

Courtney Simpson did NOT make a porno in her ASU uniform. Courtney Simpson did NOT make a porno in her ASU uniform. Courtney Simpson did NOT make a porno in her ASU uniform. Courtney Simpson did NOT make a porno in her ASU uniform. Courtney Simpson did NOT make a porno in her ASU uniform. Courtney Simpson did NOT make a porno in her ASU uniform. Courtney Simpson did NOT make a porno in her ASU uniform. Courtney Simpson did NOT make a porno in her ASU uniform. Courtney Simpson did NOT make a porno in her ASU uniform. Courtney Simpson did NOT make a porno in her ASU uniform.

[dc4azcats]

Scummy Dick still pretending to not be an ASU fan? Pathetic.

He is.

I bet he loved Herbie's quote on Assu this morning: “I think Arizona State is the most overvalued right now.” I guess Herbie looked at the same stats I did in regards to facing three of the worse offenses in the country in Stanford, UW and Utah.

[Scummy Dick Douglas]

Scummy Dick still pretending to not be an ASU fan? Pathetic.

He is.

I bet he loved Herbie's quote on Assu this morning: “I think Arizona State is the most overvalued right now.” I guess Herbie looked at the same stats I did in regards to facing three of the worse offenses in the country in Stanford, UW and Utah.

More solid logic: "He doesn't agree with my unfounded excuses, he must be an ASU fan." BTW, I agree with Herbie's viewpoint. Thats why todays game is so big for ASU. There are many in the country who are going to be getting their first real look at ASU's team. Not only that, but there are supposedly two 5-star recruits, and more than ten 4-star recruits in attendance for their game today. They have a lot riding on todays game. IF they win today, the hype machine will only get much bigger. (And thats a big IF. I generally have not found Notre Dame all that impressive this season, but I do believe they play the most pro-style form of defense in college football. If Taylor Kelly is rusty today, it will cost them big time.)

[Bosy Billups]

If Graham was hired for Arizona
And Rich Rod was hired for Arizona State.

Where do you think the programs would be today?

Watching ASU ranked #9 take on #10 Nortre Dame.

Just curious.

PS - Graham is a big DB in my book, but would I think that way if he were UA's coach?

[MrBug708]

You probably wouldnt think of it that way, but that's the nature of the beast. I think ASU has slightly more advantages and I think both teams would probably be in similar positions. I do think Graham would probably be more likely to leave Arizona than he is ASU

[RockyRaccoon]

Defense wins championships.

Under Graham, ASU always comes out with incredibly intensity and execution on defense.

It sets the tone for every game they play and if you have watched the team under Graham, they are constantly up big after the 1st quarter.

I don't know. Rich Rod is so convinced that all you need to to is come out and execute and that will win you games which might be true to a certain extent but sometimes intensity can really play a major role, especially when it comes to the college game. I'm not exactly saying RR lacks intensity as a coach but it clearly doesn't translate to the team as well as it does with ASU.

[OSUCat]

Arizona was extremely depleted by the time RR came here. ASU was not. Hard to say that graham would have done more with what RR had compared to what RR could do with what graham has done.

Either way Graham is still a D-bag. Even if he was at Arizona. I'm still bothered by the Neal recruiting fiasco, so I am sure graham tendicies to take the chicken road would still bother me

[3goggles]

The Neal recruitment?

[Harvey Specter]

Well I am sure the Kool Aid brigade will find a way to spin this ASU-ND game.... It migh be the first time in my life that I have ever cheered for Notre Dame and it's not turning out so well.

The arguments over inherited talent end after last year... ASU may have had more but they were far from loaded. With all the losses from last season's roster, no one expected ASU to be that much this season - and I would love to see how many players on the ASU 2 deep were recruited by Graham.

Graham is a tool and I hate him... I like Rich Rod a whole lot better. But to continue with the same tired arguments is nothing more than playing opossum. The guy is a very good football coach.

[Merkin]

Arizona was extremely depleted by the time RR came here.

I wouldn't say extremely depleted like what Stoops had to work with when Mackovic was fired.

The 2011 football roster:

http://www.cfbstats.com/2011/team/29/roster.html

[BearDown89]

Awesome. Now there are two threads to compare RR and Toad that I can't get off the top of the board.

[Salty]

Well I am sure the Kool Aid brigade will find a way to spin this ASU-ND game.... It migh be the first time in my life that I have ever cheered for Notre Dame and it's not turning out so well.

The arguments over inherited talent end after last year... ASU may have had more but they were far from loaded. With all the losses from last season's roster, no one expected ASU to be that much this season - and I would love to see how many players on the ASU 2 deep were recruited by Graham.

Graham is a tool and I hate him... I like Rich Rod a whole lot better. But to continue with the same tired arguments is nothing more than playing opossum. The guy is a very good football coach.

+1

[AZarchery]

No doubt I would be happy with cracka's success, but there is no excuse for the way he left Pitt. That would always be in the back of my mind. I was originally mad when RR was hired, until the facts came out.

[Gladiator Cat]

I just don't understand this freaking weird fascination of constantly trying to dissect and ridicule Todd Graham. It actually makes us look like a bunch of envious fools and on some level almost validate our insecurity in the football program.

It doesn't matter that you don't like TG, his wrist bans, his girly head phone or the way he left Pitt, which was fucking lowdown and borderline unethical.

All that matters is that ASSU likes him and he's doing the damn job he was hired to do and being paid to do, and hes doing it quite well I might add.

I wouldn't give a **** if Ronald McDonald with a big red nose, clown shoes and orange hair was UofA's head football coach. If that goofy looking clown was winning the South and playing for conference championships like Todd Graham has in the past and my be again for ASSU then he would be fine by me.

Its high time Arizona stops worrying about what some other ass-clowns are doing and start worrying about what the **** we need to do to get better.

Todd Graham, like it or not is a very good college football coach and his team is proving it. He was a good coach 3 years ago when he first got to ASSU and he still is today.

If you want something to talk about, first try beating his team on the field, then we'll have something to talk about.

[Katzenfreund]

.

[Gladiator Cat]

Stupid fuckin' thread.

AGREE COMPLETELY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[KillerKlown]

Stupid fuckin' thread.

This.

[Irish27]

asu could jump all the way to #5 in the playoff poll with all these top-10 teams losing.

[catinfl]

Good win for asu. Golson was crap and cost them the game. ND outgained asu, but Golson turning the ball over lost them the game.

[azpenguin]

Good win for asu. Golson was crap and cost them the game. ND outgained asu, but Golson turning the ball over lost them the game.

Thing is, most of those turnovers were forced. Have to credit asu for that. This game was eerily reminiscent of the UA game last year. The one thing they showed that they've been guilty of all year is that they don't keep that kind of effort up for four quarters and that could end up biting them. They damn near coughed up a 28 point lead there in the second half.

[RockyRaccoon]

Good win for asu. Golson was crap and cost them the game. ND outgained asu, but Golson turning the ball over lost them the game.

Thing is, most of those turnovers were forced. Have to credit asu for that. This game was eerily reminiscent of the UA game last year. The one thing they showed that they've been guilty of all year is that they don't keep that kind of effort up for four quarters and that could end up biting them. They damn near coughed up a 28 point lead there in the second half.

I don't think its necessarily that they don't keep the effort up but rather teams start to figure out what they're doing and get a better feel of how to attack it. You're not going to be able to blitz at the rate they do and not get burned once a team knows the way you are attacking them. That's why I'm amazed teams that play ASU haven't adjusted to it early in games yet. I assume it must be, like I said earlier, something a team has to feel out rather than just watching tape beforehand.

[azpenguin]

Early on it surprised me about how bad ND was at watching Golson's blind side. ASU kept sending corner/slot blitzes from that side and the guy wasn't accounted for at LOS and the RB was slow to figure it out. You could see the guy pinning back his ears before the snap and you knew he was coming. But by the time ND figured it out they'd given up three TDs.

[catinfl]

Good win for asu. Golson was crap and cost them the game. ND outgained asu, but Golson turning the ball over lost them the game.

Thing is, most of those turnovers were forced. Have to credit asu for that. This game was eerily reminiscent of the UA game last year. The one thing they showed that they've been guilty of all year is that they don't keep that kind of effort up for four quarters and that could end up biting them. They damn near coughed up a 28 point lead there in the second half.

Yeah asu did force some of those turnovers with the tipped passes, but there were a couple that just plain out shouldn't have been thrown and Brian Kelley feels the same because he blamed the loss on him during the presser. Asu got a good win.

[Scummy Dick Douglas]

Good win for asu. Golson was crap and cost them the game. ND outgained asu, but Golson turning the ball over lost them the game.

Thing is, most of those turnovers were forced. Have to credit asu for that. This game was eerily reminiscent of the UA game last year. The one thing they showed that they've been guilty of all year is that they don't keep that kind of effort up for four quarters and that could end up biting them. They damn near coughed up a 28 point lead there in the second half.

Yeah asu did force some of those turnovers with the tipped passes, but there were a couple that just plain out shouldn't have been thrown and Brian Kelley feels the same because he blamed the loss on him during the presser. Asu got a good win.

I think only one of those INT's you could really blame Golson for. The key to exposing Golson is quite simple: contain him and make him step up in the pocket to throw the ball, preferably under duress. He is barely over 6ft tall. He is most effective when passing on the run. ASU played him perfectly, at least early on in the game. Watching that game, its pretty easy to understand how their scheme on defense can be attractive to recruits. Graham has recruited that side of the ball well, but this season (and exposure like the ND game) could propel their defensive recruiting much further.

[dc4azcats]

Good win for asu. Golson was crap and cost them the game. ND outgained asu, but Golson turning the ball over lost them the game.

Thing is, most of those turnovers were forced. Have to credit asu for that. This game was eerily reminiscent of the UA game last year. The one thing they showed that they've been guilty of all year is that they don't keep that kind of effort up for four quarters and that could end up biting them. They damn near coughed up a 28 point lead there in the second half.

Yeah asu did force some of those turnovers with the tipped passes, but there were a couple that just plain out shouldn't have been thrown and Brian Kelley feels the same because he blamed the loss on him during the presser. Asu got a good win.

I think only one of those INT's you could really blame Golson for. The key to exposing Golson is quite simple: contain him and make him step up in the pocket to throw the ball, preferably under duress. He is barely over 6ft tall. He is most effective when passing on the run. ASU played him perfectly, at least early on in the game. Watching that game, its pretty easy to understand how their scheme on defense can be attractive to recruits. Graham has recruited that side of the ball well, but this season (and exposure like the ND game) could propel their defensive recruiting much further.

And yet he still threw for 450 some yards. Talk about a lock down D. Save the "they had to throw because they were behind crap" because Assu knew it was coming and still let him throw for 450+. Can't wait till you guys play Wazzu.

[cats101]

None of that matters if they don't score more, they still have to stop Asu. Said the they about ND and it didn't matter because Asu put 51 on the board.

[dc4azcats]

None of that matters if they don't score more, they still have to stop Asu. Said the they about ND and it didn't matter because Asu put 51 on the board.

And 28 of the 51 were off turnovers. Yes, part of the game. Yes, I said that ND would throw the ball and Assu wouldn't have an answer. Yes, I said that Wazzu would give Assu a game and I still think that Assu will have trouble covering Arizona's WR's.

Just to refresh, this was about everybody getting on Assu's jock because they shut down the 3 worse passing teams in the conference and bottom 20 in the country. They didn't shut down ND's passing game and they won't shut down Wazzu's and or Arizona. Other than that you were spot on.

[Disambiguator]

Good win for asu. Golson was crap and cost them the game. ND outgained asu, but Golson turning the ball over lost them the game.

Thing is, most of those turnovers were forced. Have to credit asu for that. This game was eerily reminiscent of the UA game last year. The one thing they showed that they've been guilty of all year is that they don't keep that kind of effort up for four quarters and that could end up biting them. They damn near coughed up a 28 point lead there in the second half.

Yeah asu did force some of those turnovers with the tipped passes, but there were a couple that just plain out shouldn't have been thrown and Brian Kelley feels the same because he blamed the loss on him during the presser. Asu got a good win.

I think only one of those INT's you could really blame Golson for. The key to exposing Golson is quite simple: contain him and make him step up in the pocket to throw the ball, preferably under duress. He is barely over 6ft tall. He is most effective when passing on the run. ASU played him perfectly, at least early on in the game. Watching that game, its pretty easy to understand how their scheme on defense can be attractive to recruits. Graham has recruited that side of the ball well, but this season (and exposure like the ND game) could propel their defensive recruiting much further.

And yet he still threw for 450 some yards. Talk about a lock down D. Save the "they had to throw because they were behind crap" because Assu knew it was coming and still let him throw for 450+. Can't wait till you guys play Wazzu.

Aaaand yet again the imps get a backup QB.

[Scummy Dick Douglas]

None of that matters if they don't score more, they still have to stop Asu. Said the they about ND and it didn't matter because Asu put 51 on the board.

And 28 of the 51 were off turnovers. Yes, part of the game. Yes, I said that ND would throw the ball and Assu wouldn't have an answer. Yes, I said that Wazzu would give Assu a game and I still think that Assu will have trouble covering Arizona's WR's.

Just to refresh, this was about everybody getting on Assu's jock because they shut down the 3 worse passing teams in the conference and bottom 20 in the country. They didn't shut down ND's passing game and they won't shut down Wazzu's and or Arizona. Other than that you were spot on.

Its clear you either did not watch their game against Notre Dame, or do not know enough about football to understand what you were seeing. ASU started the game in their typical man coverage, usually press, and brought the blitz heavy as is usually their strategy. It was clearly effective, and ASU looked well coached as they forced several early turnovers that were key in giving them the momentum and a big early lead. (The key word there was "forced".)

Once up 34-3, ASU went with a cover 3 zone scheme. Though clearly too early in the game to play prevent defense, ASU stayed in this defense until Notre Dame scored 28 unanswered pts. Only up by 3, ASU went back to being aggressive on both offense and defense and quickly score 21 unanswered. So yes, when ASU was not playing prevent defense, they shut down the Notre Dame offense. Your mother could throw for a bunch of yards if the opposing team plays almost an entire half in prevent defense.

[waysouthcat]

None of that matters if they don't score more, they still have to stop Asu. Said the they about ND and it didn't matter because Asu put 51 on the board.

And 28 of the 51 were off turnovers. Yes, part of the game. Yes, I said that ND would throw the ball and Assu wouldn't have an answer. Yes, I said that Wazzu would give Assu a game and I still think that Assu will have trouble covering Arizona's WR's.

Just to refresh, this was about everybody getting on Assu's jock because they shut down the 3 worse passing teams in the conference and bottom 20 in the country. They didn't shut down ND's passing game and they won't shut down Wazzu's and or Arizona. Other than that you were spot on.

Its clear you either did not watch their game against Notre Dame, or do not know enough about football to understand what you were seeing. ASU started the game in their typical man coverage, usually press, and brought the blitz heavy as is usually their strategy. It was clearly effective, and ASU looked well coached as they forced several early turnovers that were key in giving them the momentum and a big early lead. (The key word there was "forced".)

Once up 34-3, ASU went with a cover 3 zone scheme. Though clearly too early in the game to play prevent defense, ASU stayed in this defense until Notre Dame scored 28 unanswered pts. Only up by 3, ASU went back to being aggressive on both offense and defense and quickly score 21 unanswered. So yes, when ASU was not playing prevent defense, they shut down the Notre Dame offense. Your mother could throw for a bunch of yards if the opposing team plays almost an entire half in prevent defense.

Wow, you know a lot about a team that you ARE NOT a fan of Scummy! Impressive that we UA alumni can claim you as one of our own.

[asudevil81]

None of that matters if they don't score more, they still have to stop Asu. Said the they about ND and it didn't matter because Asu put 51 on the board.

And 28 of the 51 were off turnovers. Yes, part of the game. Yes, I said that ND would throw the ball and Assu wouldn't have an answer. Yes, I said that Wazzu would give Assu a game and I still think that Assu will have trouble covering Arizona's WR's.

Just to refresh, this was about everybody getting on Assu's jock because they shut down the 3 worse passing teams in the conference and bottom 20 in the country. They didn't shut down ND's passing game and they won't shut down Wazzu's and or Arizona. Other than that you were spot on.

No, everyone's on ASU's "jock" because we have held 5 consecutive teams under their point per game average for the season. This is a defense that lost 9 of 11 starters, 10 out of their top 12 tacklers and had their top two JC defensive not qualify. We held Stanford, Washington and Utah to their lowest point output of the year. If you can't see the improvement from this defensive from the first four games to the last five than you really don't know much about football.

You talk about Everett Golson throwing for 446 yards as if he was lighting up our defense. What you don't take into account is the 64 yards he lost when we sacked him which isn't reflected in those passing yards, or the fumble he lost, or the 4 interceptions he threw. His average adjusted QBR this year is 74.3. His second lowest game total is 59. Against ASU his adjusted QBR was 27.1. When their offense was on the field and our defense was out there, they only outscored us by 17 points. If we do that the rest of the season, we win the Pac-12.

You keep on talking about WSU and their passing attack. Connor Holiday had 489 yards passing against UA. According to your logic he lit you guys up. You guys dominated that game. I don't care if their quarterback throws for 500 yards against us. If they aren't putting points on the board it doesn't matter. But honestly, after seeing our defense the last couple of weeks you're confident in a quarterback starting his second game, on the road with a defense attacking him from everywhere? Did you happen to catch the first two games Leach had against Graham while at WSU? I will remind you, we have won by an average of 36.5 points. I would love to hear your prediction on this game since you seem so confident in WSU.

These aren't pick and chose which stat helps your argument these are stats that reflect what is actually transpiring. ASU's defensive is improving, Taylor Kelly is getting healthy and our special team isn't making the blunders they were earlier in the year and last year. We are a good team and we are improving and getting more confident. The Wildcats are going to have their hands full the day after Thanksgivng.

[Scummy Dick Douglas]

None of that matters if they don't score more, they still have to stop Asu. Said the they about ND and it didn't matter because Asu put 51 on the board.

And 28 of the 51 were off turnovers. Yes, part of the game. Yes, I said that ND would throw the ball and Assu wouldn't have an answer. Yes, I said that Wazzu would give Assu a game and I still think that Assu will have trouble covering Arizona's WR's.

Just to refresh, this was about everybody getting on Assu's jock because they shut down the 3 worse passing teams in the conference and bottom 20 in the country. They didn't shut down ND's passing game and they won't shut down Wazzu's and or Arizona. Other than that you were spot on.

Its clear you either did not watch their game against Notre Dame, or do not know enough about football to understand what you were seeing. ASU started the game in their typical man coverage, usually press, and brought the blitz heavy as is usually their strategy. It was clearly effective, and ASU looked well coached as they forced several early turnovers that were key in giving them the momentum and a big early lead. (The key word there was "forced".)

Once up 34-3, ASU went with a cover 3 zone scheme. Though clearly too early in the game to play prevent defense, ASU stayed in this defense until Notre Dame scored 28 unanswered pts. Only up by 3, ASU went back to being aggressive on both offense and defense and quickly score 21 unanswered. So yes, when ASU was not playing prevent defense, they shut down the Notre Dame offense. Your mother could throw for a bunch of yards if the opposing team plays almost an entire half in prevent defense.

Wow, you know a lot about a team that you ARE NOT a fan of Scummy! Impressive that we UA alumni can claim you as one of our own.

It was a game on national tv against a brand name team like Notre Dame. I apologize if my watching most of an ASU game objectively is insulting to you. I also watched as much of the A&M/Auburn, LSU/Bama, OSU/MSU, UCLA/UW, and CU/UA games as I could, though many of those games crossed over. (They need a red zone channel for NCAA).

Had someone started a "Re: Is Chris Petersen a better coach than Rich Rod" thread I would have commented on there too. I think the very premise of the thread is ridiculous, but not quite as ridiculous as the people who get upset at those who aren't guzzling the kool-aid. BTW, the UA alumni can not claim me as their own, and neither can the ASU alumni. I graduated from two Pac 12 schools, neither of which are in the state of Arizona. I follow the whole Pac, and try to be as objective as possible. If what I write bothers you, please show me where I am being subjective or unfair.

[Gladiator Cat]

Aw Haw,

I knew there was something that didn't smell right about old Scummy Dick. I knew he wasn't an Arizona fan, but is somewhat knowledgeable about football. Now the light came on.

Scummy D is the old “Orange Crush” who was a johnny come lately from the now defunct site of the walking dead that is only talked about as a reference for the history books and telling weird spooky story’s around a camp fire.

Scummy D is the supposed USC/Colorado Alum if my memory serves me right that loves to hangout at, of all places, on an Arizona site.

Old Scummy D, got to give him an “A” for effort.

[Puerco]

Why the hell couldn't this have been a question in the other dumb thread. This is offseason-when-I'm-bored-and-can't-find-anything-better-to-think-about discussion for god's sake.

[azgreg]

Looks like other than DW99 we have our first gerbil troll.

[illcat]

Awesome. Now there are two threads to compare RR and Toad that I can't get off the top of the board.

+1
Is this thread really worth the time?? NOOOOOOOOOOOOO

[illcat]

Stupid fuckin' thread.

Dump this thread it's worthless.

[dc4azcats]

None of that matters if they don't score more, they still have to stop Asu. Said the they about ND and it didn't matter because Asu put 51 on the board.

And 28 of the 51 were off turnovers. Yes, part of the game. Yes, I said that ND would throw the ball and Assu wouldn't have an answer. Yes, I said that Wazzu would give Assu a game and I still think that Assu will have trouble covering Arizona's WR's.

Just to refresh, this was about everybody getting on Assu's jock because they shut down the 3 worse passing teams in the conference and bottom 20 in the country. They didn't shut down ND's passing game and they won't shut down Wazzu's and or Arizona. Other than that you were spot on.

Its clear you either did not watch their game against Notre Dame, or do not know enough about football to understand what you were seeing. ASU started the game in their typical man coverage, usually press, and brought the blitz heavy as is usually their strategy. It was clearly effective, and ASU looked well coached as they forced several early turnovers that were key in giving them the momentum and a big early lead. (The key word there was "forced".)

Once up 34-3, ASU went with a cover 3 zone scheme. Though clearly too early in the game to play prevent defense, ASU stayed in this defense until Notre Dame scored 28 unanswered pts. Only up by 3, ASU went back to being aggressive on both offense and defense and quickly score 21 unanswered. So yes, when ASU was not playing prevent defense, they shut down the Notre Dame offense. Your mother could throw for a bunch of yards if the opposing team plays almost an entire half in prevent defense.

You were doing fine until "Assu stayed in this defense until ND scored 28 unanswered points". This from the guy who questions someone's "logic" in each and every post.

And in the Ucla game you guys played the same D that my mother could throw for 450 yards in as well? So did you start playing prevent D when Ucla was up by 28 or did that come later in the game? I'm curious is all?

[dc4azcats]

None of that matters if they don't score more, they still have to stop Asu. Said the they about ND and it didn't matter because Asu put 51 on the board.

And 28 of the 51 were off turnovers. Yes, part of the game. Yes, I said that ND would throw the ball and Assu wouldn't have an answer. Yes, I said that Wazzu would give Assu a game and I still think that Assu will have trouble covering Arizona's WR's.

Just to refresh, this was about everybody getting on Assu's jock because they shut down the 3 worse passing teams in the conference and bottom 20 in the country. They didn't shut down ND's passing game and they won't shut down Wazzu's and or Arizona. Other than that you were spot on.

No, everyone's on ASU's "jock" because we have held 5 consecutive teams under their point per game average for the season. This is a defense that lost 9 of 11 starters, 10 out of their top 12 tacklers and had their top two JC defensive not qualify. We held Stanford, Washington and Utah to their lowest point output of the year. If you can't see the improvement from this defensive from the first four games to the last five than you really don't know much about football.

You talk about Everett Golson throwing for 446 yards as if he was lighting up our defense. What you don't take into account is the 64 yards he lost when we sacked him which isn't reflected in those passing yards, or the fumble he lost, or the 4 interceptions he threw. His average adjusted QBR this year is 74.3. His second lowest game total is 59. Against ASU his adjusted QBR was 27.1. When their offense was on the field and our defense was out there, they only outscored us by 17 points. If we do that the rest of the season, we win the Pac-12.

You keep on talking about WSU and their passing attack. Connor Holiday had 489 yards passing against UA. According to your logic he lit you guys up. You guys dominated that game. I don't care if their quarterback throws for 500 yards against us. If they aren't putting points on the board it doesn't matter. But honestly, after seeing our defense the last couple of weeks you're confident in a quarterback starting his second game, on the road with a defense attacking him from everywhere? Did you happen to catch the first two games Leach had against Graham while at WSU? I will remind you, we have won by an average of 36.5 points. I would love to hear your prediction on this game since you seem so confident in WSU.

These aren't pick and chose which stat helps your argument these are stats that reflect what is actually transpiring. ASU's defensive is improving, Taylor Kelly is getting healthy and our special team isn't making the blunders they were earlier in the year and last year. We are a good team and we are improving and getting more confident. The Wildcats are going to have their hands full the day after Thanksgivng.

Sacks go to rushing yards not passing yards as an FYI. And I did take into account the turnovers which turned into 28 points for Assu. And you might want to rethink this: "When their offense was on the field and our defense was out there, they only outscored us by 17 points. If we do that the rest of the season, we win the Pac-12." Maybe I'm missing something but if the other teams offense outscores your D by 17 points and doesn't turn the ball over and give the other team 28 points you will lose the rest of your games.

As for the pick and choose stats? Stay with me on this as you and scummy seem to have some difficulty in understanding this. Assu played Stanford (#10), UW (#12) and Utah (#11) who rank bottom 3 in the conference when it comes to pass offense and total offense and that includes Utah's game vs Oregon this past Saturday. Nationally they rank in the bottom 21 of 128 teams in total offense. Sorry if I wasn't sold on Assu's D like everybody else.

If Wazzu and Arizona don't turn the ball over then I think both will have success moving the ball through the air. Whether that turns into a W or not, time will tell.

[Scummy Dick Douglas]

None of that matters if they don't score more, they still have to stop Asu. Said the they about ND and it didn't matter because Asu put 51 on the board.

And 28 of the 51 were off turnovers. Yes, part of the game. Yes, I said that ND would throw the ball and Assu wouldn't have an answer. Yes, I said that Wazzu would give Assu a game and I still think that Assu will have trouble covering Arizona's WR's.

Just to refresh, this was about everybody getting on Assu's jock because they shut down the 3 worse passing teams in the conference and bottom 20 in the country. They didn't shut down ND's passing game and they won't shut down Wazzu's and or Arizona. Other than that you were spot on.

No, everyone's on ASU's "jock" because we have held 5 consecutive teams under their point per game average for the season. This is a defense that lost 9 of 11 starters, 10 out of their top 12 tacklers and had their top two JC defensive not qualify. We held Stanford, Washington and Utah to their lowest point output of the year. If you can't see the improvement from this defensive from the first four games to the last five than you really don't know much about football.

You talk about Everett Golson throwing for 446 yards as if he was lighting up our defense. What you don't take into account is the 64 yards he lost when we sacked him which isn't reflected in those passing yards, or the fumble he lost, or the 4 interceptions he threw. His average adjusted QBR this year is 74.3. His second lowest game total is 59. Against ASU his adjusted QBR was 27.1. When their offense was on the field and our defense was out there, they only outscored us by 17 points. If we do that the rest of the season, we win the Pac-12.

You keep on talking about WSU and their passing attack. Connor Holiday had 489 yards passing against UA. According to your logic he lit you guys up. You guys dominated that game. I don't care if their quarterback throws for 500 yards against us. If they aren't putting points on the board it doesn't matter. But honestly, after seeing our defense the last couple of weeks you're confident in a quarterback starting his second game, on the road with a defense attacking him from everywhere? Did you happen to catch the first two games Leach had against Graham while at WSU? I will remind you, we have won by an average of 36.5 points. I would love to hear your prediction on this game since you seem so confident in WSU.

These aren't pick and chose which stat helps your argument these are stats that reflect what is actually transpiring. ASU's defensive is improving, Taylor Kelly is getting healthy and our special team isn't making the blunders they were earlier in the year and last year. We are a good team and we are improving and getting more confident. The Wildcats are going to have their hands full the day after Thanksgivng.

Sacks go to rushing yards not passing yards as an FYI. And I did take into account the turnovers which turned into 28 points for Assu. And you might want to rethink this: "When their offense was on the field and our defense was out there, they only outscored us by 17 points. If we do that the rest of the season, we win the Pac-12." Maybe I'm missing something but if the other teams offense outscores your D by 17 points and doesn't turn the ball over and give the other team 28 points you will lose the rest of your games.

As for the pick and choose stats? Stay with me on this as you and scummy seem to have some difficulty in understanding this. Assu played Stanford (#10), UW (#12) and Utah (#11) who rank bottom 3 in the conference when it comes to pass offense and total offense and that includes Utah's game vs Oregon this past Saturday. Nationally they rank in the bottom 21 of 128 teams in total offense. Sorry if I wasn't sold on Assu's D like everybody else.

If Wazzu and Arizona don't turn the ball over then I think both will have success moving the ball through the air. Whether that turns into a W or not, time will tell.

I have no problem with that line of reasoning, and have even echoed it myself. Actually let me rephrase that: I have no problem with that line of reasoning as long as you were not one of those that declared that line of reasoning prior to the ND game with the caveat that the ND game would expose the reality of ASU's defense. If you were of that mindset, then I think ASU answered pretty clearly that their defense is pretty damned good. I stand by what I have said previously; though not a shut down defense, I think ASU's defense has matured to one of the best 3 or 4 defenses in the Pac. Right now, I would place them as third to only USC (1) and Stanford (2).

[catinfl]

None of that matters if they don't score more, they still have to stop Asu. Said the they about ND and it didn't matter because Asu put 51 on the board.

And 28 of the 51 were off turnovers. Yes, part of the game. Yes, I said that ND would throw the ball and Assu wouldn't have an answer. Yes, I said that Wazzu would give Assu a game and I still think that Assu will have trouble covering Arizona's WR's.

Just to refresh, this was about everybody getting on Assu's jock because they shut down the 3 worse passing teams in the conference and bottom 20 in the country. They didn't shut down ND's passing game and they won't shut down Wazzu's and or Arizona. Other than that you were spot on.

No, everyone's on ASU's "jock" because we have held 5 consecutive teams under their point per game average for the season. This is a defense that lost 9 of 11 starters, 10 out of their top 12 tacklers and had their top two JC defensive not qualify. We held Stanford, Washington and Utah to their lowest point output of the year. If you can't see the improvement from this defensive from the first four games to the last five than you really don't know much about football.

You talk about Everett Golson throwing for 446 yards as if he was lighting up our defense. What you don't take into account is the 64 yards he lost when we sacked him which isn't reflected in those passing yards, or the fumble he lost, or the 4 interceptions he threw. His average adjusted QBR this year is 74.3. His second lowest game total is 59. Against ASU his adjusted QBR was 27.1. When their offense was on the field and our defense was out there, they only outscored us by 17 points. If we do that the rest of the season, we win the Pac-12.

You keep on talking about WSU and their passing attack. Connor Holiday had 489 yards passing against UA. According to your logic he lit you guys up. You guys dominated that game. I don't care if their quarterback throws for 500 yards against us. If they aren't putting points on the board it doesn't matter. But honestly, after seeing our defense the last couple of weeks you're confident in a quarterback starting his second game, on the road with a defense attacking him from everywhere? Did you happen to catch the first two games Leach had against Graham while at WSU? I will remind you, we have won by an average of 36.5 points. I would love to hear your prediction on this game since you seem so confident in WSU.

These aren't pick and chose which stat helps your argument these are stats that reflect what is actually transpiring. ASU's defensive is improving, Taylor Kelly is getting healthy and our special team isn't making the blunders they were earlier in the year and last year. We are a good team and we are improving and getting more confident. The Wildcats are going to have their hands full the day after Thanksgivng.

Sacks go to rushing yards not passing yards as an FYI. And I did take into account the turnovers which turned into 28 points for Assu. And you might want to rethink this: "When their offense was on the field and our defense was out there, they only outscored us by 17 points. If we do that the rest of the season, we win the Pac-12." Maybe I'm missing something but if the other teams offense outscores your D by 17 points and doesn't turn the ball over and give the other team 28 points you will lose the rest of your games.

As for the pick and choose stats? Stay with me on this as you and scummy seem to have some difficulty in understanding this. Assu played Stanford (#10), UW (#12) and Utah (#11) who rank bottom 3 in the conference when it comes to pass offense and total offense and that includes Utah's game vs Oregon this past Saturday. Nationally they rank in the bottom 21 of 128 teams in total offense. Sorry if I wasn't sold on Assu's D like everybody else.

If Wazzu and Arizona don't turn the ball over then I think both will have success moving the ball through the air. Whether that turns into a W or not, time will tell.

I have no problem with that line of reasoning, and have even echoed it myself. Actually let me rephrase that: I have no problem with that line of reasoning as long as you were not one of those that declared that line of reasoning prior to the ND game with the caveat that the ND game would expose the reality of ASU's defense. If you were of that mindset, then I think ASU answered pretty clearly that their defense is pretty damned good. I stand by what I have said previously; though not a shut down defense, I think ASU's defense has matured to one of the best 3 or 4 defenses in the Pac. Right now, I would place them as third to only USC (1) and Stanford (2).

Come on now. We all know you're a troll, but you're reaching so hard with this.

[azcat49]

Utahs defense is much better then the scum and I might put UCLA's defense above there's.

Brittney Graham is a really good defensive voach and he has done an A+ job with those guys. His LB's are smallish and his DB's very young but he has pieced them together.

Playing 3 bottom offensive teams has given them some confidence and now they face 2 one dimensional offenses in a row before playing us. Time will tell

[Tempedevil]

As of right now, the answer is yes. Yes, CTG is the better coach.

[devilswin99]

Welcome Tempedevil, and I do agree with your assessment that Coach Todd Graham is outpacing RR by a significant margin. If we are victorious in the land of truckstops and tacos on November 28th, I do feel that a moving van might be in order for RR and his staff, as they might want to find an easier rival and conference to compete in. I say Eastern Washington Univ might be a good fit!!!

[asudevil81]

Sacks go to rushing yards not passing yards as an FYI. And I did take into account the turnovers which turned into 28 points for Assu. And you might want to rethink this: "When their offense was on the field and our defense was out there, they only outscored us by 17 points. If we do that the rest of the season, we win the Pac-12." Maybe I'm missing something but if the other teams offense outscores your D by 17 points and doesn't turn the ball over and give the other team 28 points you will lose the rest of your games.

As for the pick and choose stats? Stay with me on this as you and scummy seem to have some difficulty in understanding this. Assu played Stanford (#10), UW (#12) and Utah (#11) who rank bottom 3 in the conference when it comes to pass offense and total offense and that includes Utah's game vs Oregon this past Saturday. Nationally they rank in the bottom 21 of 128 teams in total offense. Sorry if I wasn't sold on Assu's D like everybody else.

If Wazzu and Arizona don't turn the ball over then I think both will have success moving the ball through the air. Whether that turns into a W or not, time will tell.

I am well aware of how sack yardage is recorded. All I said is those yards are not reflected in the passing yards we gave up, which they aren't. Losing 9 yards per sack is a lot and killed a lot of their drives. Another sign of our defensive improvement is the first four games of the year we averaged 1.5 sacks a game. The last five games we are averaging 4 sacks a game.

When Notre Dame's Offense was on the field they scored 31 points
When ASU's Defensive was on the field they scored 14 points (for a 17 point difference)
When ASU's Offense was on the field they scored 41 points
When Notre Dame's Defense was on the field they scored 0 points (41 point difference)
If you take away the points we scored off of turnovers our offensive scored 27 points. I am not sure how you don't get that. You think your defense (or OSU and WSU defense) will hold ASU's offense to 17 points or less? I think that is going to be pretty tough.

That's exactly what I am talking about picking and choosing your stats. Last time I checked you win the game if you score more points than the opposing team. Nowhere did you put that Stanford, Utah and Washington were the 8th, 9th and 12th scoring offense. Picking and choosing which stats help your argument the most. ASU didn't just hold them below their scoring averages, they held them to their lowest output of the year. Every team in the Pac-12 except Arizona had the opportunity to do what we did and couldn't. Those teams flaws weren't just there for the ASU game, those teams have been that way for the entire year (minus the Miles injury). If you can't see that ASU's defense is improving, than nothing is going to convince you.

I don't have any doubt that UA and WSU can move the ball on offense, but once again the point of the game is scoring points. UA and WSU are 10th and 11th in red zone offense while and ASU is #2 in red zone defense. On the flip side ASU is #2 in red zone offense while WSU and UA are 8th and 12th in red zone defense. Those two teams can run up and down the field but if they have to settle for field goals instead of touchdowns, then they are going to lose the game.

BTW I think ASU has the 4th best defense in the conference (4th in scoring, 3rd in total, 4th in sacks & tied for 5th in turnovers forced), behind Stanford, USC and barely behind Utah.

[dc4azcats]

Sacks go to rushing yards not passing yards as an FYI. And I did take into account the turnovers which turned into 28 points for Assu. And you might want to rethink this: "When their offense was on the field and our defense was out there, they only outscored us by 17 points. If we do that the rest of the season, we win the Pac-12." Maybe I'm missing something but if the other teams offense outscores your D by 17 points and doesn't turn the ball over and give the other team 28 points you will lose the rest of your games.

As for the pick and choose stats? Stay with me on this as you and scummy seem to have some difficulty in understanding this. Assu played Stanford (#10), UW (#12) and Utah (#11) who rank bottom 3 in the conference when it comes to pass offense and total offense and that includes Utah's game vs Oregon this past Saturday. Nationally they rank in the bottom 21 of 128 teams in total offense. Sorry if I wasn't sold on Assu's D like everybody else.

If Wazzu and Arizona don't turn the ball over then I think both will have success moving the ball through the air. Whether that turns into a W or not, time will tell.

I am well aware of how sack yardage is recorded. All I said is those yards are not reflected in the passing yards we gave up, which they aren't. Losing 9 yards per sack is a lot and killed a lot of their drives. Another sign of our defensive improvement is the first four games of the year we averaged 1.5 sacks a game. The last five games we are averaging 4 sacks a game.

When Notre Dame's Offense was on the field they scored 31 points
When ASU's Defensive was on the field they scored 14 points (for a 17 point difference)
When ASU's Offense was on the field they scored 41 points
When Notre Dame's Defense was on the field they scored 0 points (41 point difference)
If you take away the points we scored off of turnovers our offensive scored 27 points. I am not sure how you don't get that. You think your defense (or OSU and WSU defense) will hold ASU's offense to 17 points or less? I think that is going to be pretty tough.

That's exactly what I am talking about picking and choosing your stats. Last time I checked you win the game if you score more points than the opposing team. Nowhere did you put that Stanford, Utah and Washington were the 8th, 9th and 12th scoring offense. Picking and choosing which stats help your argument the most. ASU didn't just hold them below their scoring averages, they held them to their lowest output of the year. Every team in the Pac-12 except Arizona had the opportunity to do what we did and couldn't. Those teams flaws weren't just there for the ASU game, those teams have been that way for the entire year (minus the Miles injury). If you can't see that ASU's defense is improving, than nothing is going to convince you.

I don't have any doubt that UA and WSU can move the ball on offense, but once again the point of the game is scoring points. UA and WSU are 10th and 11th in red zone offense while and ASU is #2 in red zone defense. On the flip side ASU is #2 in red zone offense while WSU and UA are 8th and 12th in red zone defense. Those two teams can run up and down the field but if they have to settle for field goals instead of touchdowns, then they are going to lose the game.

BTW I think ASU has the 4th best defense in the conference (4th in scoring, 3rd in total, 4th in sacks & tied for 5th in turnovers forced), behind Stanford, USC and barely behind Utah.

They were the 3 worse offenses before you played them and they continue to be terrible. That's not spin that's fact. Why is it so hard for Assu fan to accept that they played 3 teams with shitty offenses? We're 9 games into the season and they were shitty before you played them and they're shitty after you played them. That's total offense and pass offense which means they can run the ball (Utah), kind of run the ball (UW, when Shaq is the RB) and Stanford who can't run or pass the ball. Those aren't selective stats that's total offense which means you can either move the ball or you can't.

Assu has the 4th best D because they've played 3 of the worse offense in the conference. You don't play the 2 best scoring offenses in the conference in Oregon and Cal but by all means keep thinking your D is stout. After Oregon and Cal comes Arizona, SC who put up 493 yards of total offense and 34 points, then Ucla and 62 points and 580 yards of offense. So to recap, Assu played the 3 worse offense in the conference, don't play 2 of the top offenses and gave up 34 and 62 to the next best offenses.

I should also note that ntOSU is 9th in the conference in total Offense so you can add that to your list of playing shitty offenses this year. The Beavs are 11th in the conference in rush offense (only Wazzu is worse) and 8th in pass offense.

I can't wait till we play Assu and it's stout D.

[asudevil81]

And i can't wait until we get to play that vaunted offense of yours that got pad it's stats against three cupcake non conference games and hasn't played the 1st, 2nd or 4th best scoring defenses in the Pac-12.

And with those "shitty" offenses, why couldn't the following teams, Notre Dame, Oregon, Stanford, UCLA and USC hold the teams we played to less points? For some reason you fail to answer that question every time it is asked. All you comeback to say is that they have a "shitty" offense. Okay, fantastic I have never implied otherwise.

On November 28th we're going to find out if Anu can handle pressure coming at him from all angles. If he can, then you guys have a great shot at winning. If he can't than it might be a long night for you guys. So far in two attempts Todd Graham has held your quarterbacks to some of their worst outings of their year. I think there is a good chance that it will happen for a third year.

[catinfl]

And i can't wait until we get to play that vaunted offense of yours that got pad it's stats against three cupcake non conference games and hasn't played the 1st, 2nd or 4th best scoring defenses in the Pac-12.

And with those "shitty" offenses, why couldn't the following teams, Notre Dame, Oregon, Stanford, UCLA and USC hold the teams we played to less points? For some reason you fail to answer that question every time it is asked. All you comeback to say is that they have a "shitty" offense. Okay, fantastic I have never implied otherwise.

On November 28th we're going to find out if Anu can handle pressure coming at him from all angles. If he can, then you guys have a great shot at winning. If he can't than it might be a long night for you guys. So far in two attempts Todd Graham has held your quarterbacks to some of their worst outings of their year. I think there is a good chance that it will happen for a third year.

I guess we'll see. Anu is a calm and collected guy at QB and is slippery. TG strategy on blitz on every play works a lot, but Arizona will be prepared and have some things set up to go against it. I'll take Arizona's WR's over your DB's any day. If Nick Wilson is healthy I have no doubt we beat the gerbils

[Puerco]

Bump? Oh, you said 'Dump'.

Sorry.

[PieceOfMeat]

topics merged...i think...