The Official Drop the 3-3-5 Thread.

[dc4azcats]

Just to dip my toe into this shitfest, I'd like to submit my opinion that Graham's 2013 and 2014 defenses aren't all that great. Now hear me out, this isn't because of Graham being at ASU, but merely his defense's over-reliance on the blitz last year and this year, and my opinion of that kind of defense.

2 years ago their defense was good. This was because they had a very good pair of LB's in Bradford and Burfict (stupid penalties aside, very physical player), some solid safeties, and a DL that included a gigantic Will Sutton. Now, it seems to me, that to compensate for the fact that ALL of the players that I just mentioned were gone by 2013, ASU has decided to throw 6-8 man blitzes at every opportunity. Now, against Denker, who couldn't deal with pressure consistently due to his terrible pocket presence and his reliance on extremely short throws, this was very effective. I don't think that a defense that gambles that much is especially good, and I think they get exposed against QB's that can keep calm in the pocket. Of course, inexperienced or poor QB's will get shredded, which means that a blitz-heavy defense will have a certain amount of success, but otherwise I think they'll be burned by the better/elite teams more often than not. Does anyone else agree with me, at least in schematic terms?

I agree. Look at Stanford as an example, they played right into Assu's hand by trying to run the ball and then throw in long yardage situations and Hogan getting killed by the blitz. I really think Wazzu is going to give Assu trouble because they run up tempo and guys will be open because of Assu blitzing 6 guys. The big fat DT's will be useless in this game and you have to wonder whether CTG looks at what Arizona did (doubtful) and puts his fat DT's on the bench.

I look back at that Washington game, and the announcers were praising ASU for this supposedly super-stout defense that they were playing... Except the wind was so terrible Washington literally ran the ball the ENTIRE GAME, and even then, when they got Shaq in and started getting a drive going, the ASU defensive front got tired, then they just got pushed around big time. They were like a reverse WSU, except IMO the run is a lot easier to stop than the pass. Let's see how ASU does against more pass-happy offenses, like WSU, Arizona, and against a QB in Mannion that can stand in the pocket and deliver balls all over the field. I don't think OSU would win, but I think they could test this ASU defense a bit, certainly more than Washington...

Regardless of the conditions, the ASU defense gave up 3 pts, and the UW defense, (a defense that I believe has the best front 7 in the Pac), gave up 17 pts. I would say the ASU defense played pretty well.

The reality is, UA, ASU, and Utah are all trending upward. The next 6 weeks will be interesting.

Assu played the worse offenses in the conference in Furd and UW so we might want to pump the brakes in regards to assu's front line. Ucla smoked them as did SC - if not for poor coaching SC wins that game by 10 points or more. Would not surprise me in the least if Wazzu smokes the devils for the same reason Ucla did. Up tempo offense and a QB that can sling it. Assu's D is fools gold right now.

[Scummy Dick Douglas]

That was Troy Williams first start at QB for the Huskies. He saw a little action at the end of the Oregon game when Miles got hurt. I don't think he attempted a pass further than 10 yards the whole game.

No one should have been throwing in wind like that. Can't fault the husky play calling.

[Scummy Dick Douglas]

Just to dip my toe into this shitfest, I'd like to submit my opinion that Graham's 2013 and 2014 defenses aren't all that great. Now hear me out, this isn't because of Graham being at ASU, but merely his defense's over-reliance on the blitz last year and this year, and my opinion of that kind of defense.

2 years ago their defense was good. This was because they had a very good pair of LB's in Bradford and Burfict (stupid penalties aside, very physical player), some solid safeties, and a DL that included a gigantic Will Sutton. Now, it seems to me, that to compensate for the fact that ALL of the players that I just mentioned were gone by 2013, ASU has decided to throw 6-8 man blitzes at every opportunity. Now, against Denker, who couldn't deal with pressure consistently due to his terrible pocket presence and his reliance on extremely short throws, this was very effective. I don't think that a defense that gambles that much is especially good, and I think they get exposed against QB's that can keep calm in the pocket. Of course, inexperienced or poor QB's will get shredded, which means that a blitz-heavy defense will have a certain amount of success, but otherwise I think they'll be burned by the better/elite teams more often than not. Does anyone else agree with me, at least in schematic terms?

I agree. Look at Stanford as an example, they played right into Assu's hand by trying to run the ball and then throw in long yardage situations and Hogan getting killed by the blitz. I really think Wazzu is going to give Assu trouble because they run up tempo and guys will be open because of Assu blitzing 6 guys. The big fat DT's will be useless in this game and you have to wonder whether CTG looks at what Arizona did (doubtful) and puts his fat DT's on the bench.

I look back at that Washington game, and the announcers were praising ASU for this supposedly super-stout defense that they were playing... Except the wind was so terrible Washington literally ran the ball the ENTIRE GAME, and even then, when they got Shaq in and started getting a drive going, the ASU defensive front got tired, then they just got pushed around big time. They were like a reverse WSU, except IMO the run is a lot easier to stop than the pass. Let's see how ASU does against more pass-happy offenses, like WSU, Arizona, and against a QB in Mannion that can stand in the pocket and deliver balls all over the field. I don't think OSU would win, but I think they could test this ASU defense a bit, certainly more than Washington...

Regardless of the conditions, the ASU defense gave up 3 pts, and the UW defense, (a defense that I believe has the best front 7 in the Pac), gave up 17 pts. I would say the ASU defense played pretty well.

The reality is, UA, ASU, and Utah are all trending upward. The next 6 weeks will be interesting.

Assu played the worse offenses in the conference in Furd and UW so we might want to pump the brakes in regards to assu's front line. Ucla smoked them as did SC - if not for poor coaching SC wins that game by 10 points or more. Would not surprise me in the least if Wazzu smokes the devils for the same reason Ucla did. Up tempo offense and a QB that can sling it. Assu's D is fools gold right now.

Using your logic, Cal smoked UA- "if not for poor coaching Cal wins that game by 21 pts or more". I think UA won the game. I generally believe one team executes, the other does not. Those realities don't change for me just because ASU happens to be the winner of the game in question.

[dc4azcats]

Assu played the worse offenses in the conference in Furd and UW so we might want to pump the brakes in regards to assu's front line. Ucla smoked them as did SC - if not for poor coaching SC wins that game by 10 points or more. Would not surprise me in the least if Wazzu smokes the devils for the same reason Ucla did. Up tempo offense and a QB that can sling it. Assu's D is fools gold right now.

Using your logic, Cal smoked UA- "if not for poor coaching Cal wins that game by 21 pts or more". I think UA won the game. I generally believe one team executes, the other does not. Those realities don't change for me just because ASU happens to be the winner of the game in question.

What? Stanford and UW rank 10th and 11th in the conference in scoring, averaging 29.9 and 25.8 respectively. Just to compare - the top scoring teams in the conference are Oregon at 45.5, Cal at 41.5 and Arizona at 40.6. Assu doesn't play either Cal or Oregon.

As for the SC game, SC put up 34 points and close to 500 yards of total offense. My point was Assu didn't stop SC as much as SC stopped itself and let Assu back in the game. Please point out where I said this had anything to do with Arizona vs Cal?

My point remains the same - Assu's D hasn't stopped anybody with a good offense and has looked good against teams with crappy offenses. Ucla puts up a 62 spot, SC put up 34, then they play Stanford and UW who struggle to put points on the board. Against good offensive teams they've struggled to stop them and against teams that can't score the D has looked good - what conclusions can we make from this? Exactly.

They can't stop up tempo teams and I think they lose to Wazzu for that very reason. I also think they will lose to ND and Arizona for the exact same reason.

[Reydituto]

I read multiple boards on a daily basis, but I am a reluctant poster due to time constraints. I love to check in, but not get caught up in having to compose posts or banter back and forth. However, I registered for this board some time ago entirely to call out the pathetically transparent/deliberately obtuse dmj"cat". You have painted yourself into such a disingenuous corner at this point that you could never BS your way out of it. Please stop wasting your and everyone else's time with your dogmatic stupidity. You're screwing up the threads, you don't appear to know what you are talking about, and your whole schtick has become pure folly. Enough is enough, eh?

Sorry, but you can't have the position of the Marilyn vos Savant of the board, Reydituto has that title taken

Whatever you say Simple Jack ...




Disambiguator meanwhile lived up to his name ... "Dogmatic stupidity" is an instant classic ... Welcome aboard, please post more ...

[prh]

Just to dip my toe into this shitfest, I'd like to submit my opinion that Graham's 2013 and 2014 defenses aren't all that great. Now hear me out, this isn't because of Graham being at ASU, but merely his defense's over-reliance on the blitz last year and this year, and my opinion of that kind of defense.

2 years ago their defense was good. This was because they had a very good pair of LB's in Bradford and Burfict (stupid penalties aside, very physical player), some solid safeties, and a DL that included a gigantic Will Sutton. Now, it seems to me, that to compensate for the fact that ALL of the players that I just mentioned were gone by 2013, ASU has decided to throw 6-8 man blitzes at every opportunity. Now, against Denker, who couldn't deal with pressure consistently due to his terrible pocket presence and his reliance on extremely short throws, this was very effective. I don't think that a defense that gambles that much is especially good, and I think they get exposed against QB's that can keep calm in the pocket. Of course, inexperienced or poor QB's will get shredded, which means that a blitz-heavy defense will have a certain amount of success, but otherwise I think they'll be burned by the better/elite teams more often than not. Does anyone else agree with me, at least in schematic terms?

I agree. Look at Stanford as an example, they played right into Assu's hand by trying to run the ball and then throw in long yardage situations and Hogan getting killed by the blitz. I really think Wazzu is going to give Assu trouble because they run up tempo and guys will be open because of Assu blitzing 6 guys. The big fat DT's will be useless in this game and you have to wonder whether CTG looks at what Arizona did (doubtful) and puts his fat DT's on the bench.

I look back at that Washington game, and the announcers were praising ASU for this supposedly super-stout defense that they were playing... Except the wind was so terrible Washington literally ran the ball the ENTIRE GAME, and even then, when they got Shaq in and started getting a drive going, the ASU defensive front got tired, then they just got pushed around big time. They were like a reverse WSU, except IMO the run is a lot easier to stop than the pass. Let's see how ASU does against more pass-happy offenses, like WSU, Arizona, and against a QB in Mannion that can stand in the pocket and deliver balls all over the field. I don't think OSU would win, but I think they could test this ASU defense a bit, certainly more than Washington...

Regardless of the conditions, the ASU defense gave up 3 pts, and the UW defense, (a defense that I believe has the best front 7 in the Pac), gave up 17 pts. I would say the ASU defense played pretty well.

The reality is, UA, ASU, and Utah are all trending upward. The next 6 weeks will be interesting.

Just to point out, they threw a pick-6 in the last minute, so that defense only gave up 10 points.

[Scummy Dick Douglas]

Just to dip my toe into this shitfest, I'd like to submit my opinion that Graham's 2013 and 2014 defenses aren't all that great. Now hear me out, this isn't because of Graham being at ASU, but merely his defense's over-reliance on the blitz last year and this year, and my opinion of that kind of defense.

2 years ago their defense was good. This was because they had a very good pair of LB's in Bradford and Burfict (stupid penalties aside, very physical player), some solid safeties, and a DL that included a gigantic Will Sutton. Now, it seems to me, that to compensate for the fact that ALL of the players that I just mentioned were gone by 2013, ASU has decided to throw 6-8 man blitzes at every opportunity. Now, against Denker, who couldn't deal with pressure consistently due to his terrible pocket presence and his reliance on extremely short throws, this was very effective. I don't think that a defense that gambles that much is especially good, and I think they get exposed against QB's that can keep calm in the pocket. Of course, inexperienced or poor QB's will get shredded, which means that a blitz-heavy defense will have a certain amount of success, but otherwise I think they'll be burned by the better/elite teams more often than not. Does anyone else agree with me, at least in schematic terms?

I agree. Look at Stanford as an example, they played right into Assu's hand by trying to run the ball and then throw in long yardage situations and Hogan getting killed by the blitz. I really think Wazzu is going to give Assu trouble because they run up tempo and guys will be open because of Assu blitzing 6 guys. The big fat DT's will be useless in this game and you have to wonder whether CTG looks at what Arizona did (doubtful) and puts his fat DT's on the bench.

I look back at that Washington game, and the announcers were praising ASU for this supposedly super-stout defense that they were playing... Except the wind was so terrible Washington literally ran the ball the ENTIRE GAME, and even then, when they got Shaq in and started getting a drive going, the ASU defensive front got tired, then they just got pushed around big time. They were like a reverse WSU, except IMO the run is a lot easier to stop than the pass. Let's see how ASU does against more pass-happy offenses, like WSU, Arizona, and against a QB in Mannion that can stand in the pocket and deliver balls all over the field. I don't think OSU would win, but I think they could test this ASU defense a bit, certainly more than Washington...

Regardless of the conditions, the ASU defense gave up 3 pts, and the UW defense, (a defense that I believe has the best front 7 in the Pac), gave up 17 pts. I would say the ASU defense played pretty well.

The reality is, UA, ASU, and Utah are all trending upward. The next 6 weeks will be interesting.

Just to point out, they threw a pick-6 in the last minute, so that defense only gave up 10 points.

The final score was 24-10, both teams throwing a pick-6. So the ASU offense scored 17 pts, the UW offense scored 3 pts.

[dmjcat]

I read multiple boards on a daily basis, but I am a reluctant poster due to time constraints. I love to check in, but not get caught up in having to compose posts or banter back and forth. However, I registered for this board some time ago entirely to call out the pathetically transparent/deliberately obtuse dmj"cat". You have painted yourself into such a disingenuous corner at this point that you could never BS your way out of it. Please stop wasting your and everyone else's time with your dogmatic stupidity. You're screwing up the threads, you don't appear to know what you are talking about, and your whole schtick has become pure folly. Enough is enough, eh?

Sorry, but you can't have the position of the Marilyn vos Savant of the board, Reydituto has that title taken

Whatever you say Simple Jack ...




Disambiguator meanwhile lived up to his name ... "Dogmatic stupidity" is an instant classic ... Welcome aboard, please post more ...

Whatever you say Marilyn..........errrrrrrr Reydituto

[prh]

The final score was 24-10, both teams throwing a pick-6. So the ASU offense scored 17 pts, the UW offense scored 3 pts.

Oh wow was I out of it. Thanks for correcting my stupidity.

[Sage&Silver]

Couldn't even hold a Heisman candidate QB to under seven points.

[PieceOfMeat]

D gave up to many 3rd and longs last night, and sure that 70 yard play was a break down.....but Scooby and the D did well vs ucla. Held them to half their season average on points.

I know a lot of us yearn for the days of old where we had a nationally ranked defense, but if you would have told me before the game started that the D would hold ucla to 17 points, I'd have said thank you very much.

[dmjcat]

We could have run a 4-3 defense, a 4-2-5 defense, or an 11-0 defense last night and it would not have mattered, we would have lost. Bottom line you have to recruit good players and develop them regardless of the scheme and this defensive staff hasn't gotten it done.

As of right now we have signed a single DT for next year (6-2 255 and he blew his acl out before his Sr. year) so we don't appear to have a lot of help on the way. Casteel did sign Marcus Griffin last year but I'm still puzzled that we didn't try to play him this year given the shortcomings of our DL........are we to believe that he couldn't beat out our 247lb walk on??? Cracker has played his 4 star DT (Smallwood) and developed him into a serviceable player. Bottom line, the defensive staff has recruited poorly and not sufficiently developed what they have recruited......which is the primary difference between the UA and asu at the moment.

[whatisee]

The defense was not the problem last night. Anyone who watched the game could see that

[Daryl Zero]

D gave up to many 3rd and longs last night, and sure that 70 yard play was a break down.....but Scooby and the D did well vs ucla. Held them to half their season average on points.

I know a lot of us yearn for the days of old where we had a nationally ranked defense, but if you would have told me before the game started that the D would hold ucla to 17 points, I'd have said thank you very much.

I thought the D was spectacular last night. The offense and field goal kicking is what stunk up the joint. The offense was on the field for about 8 minutes (it seems) the entire game. They went 3 and out chronically and made the defense play most of the night in bad position. If you had been told prior to the game that Arizona would hold UCLA to 17 points, you would have taken it in a heartbeat and probably thought Arizona would win the game. UCLA's front line destroyed Arizona's O-line and Solomon had his worst game not helped by receivers who dropped the ball over and over again along with no running game.

[qwertyus]

D gave up to many 3rd and longs last night, and sure that 70 yard play was a break down.....but Scooby and the D did well vs ucla. Held them to half their season average on points.

I know a lot of us yearn for the days of old where we had a nationally ranked defense, but if you would have told me before the game started that the D would hold ucla to 17 points, I'd have said thank you very much.

I thought the D was spectacular last night. The offense and field goal kicking is what stunk up the joint. The offense was on the field for about 8 minutes (it seems) the entire game. They went 3 and out chronically and made the defense play most of the night in bad position. If you had been told prior to the game that Arizona would hold UCLA to 17 points, you would have taken it in a heartbeat and probably thought Arizona would win the game. UCLA's front line destroyed Arizona's O-line and Solomon had his worst game not helped by receivers who dropped the ball over and over again along with no running game.

QFT. Defense, paradoxically, was not the problem in this game. Not by a long shot. What's comforting is, even though we're probably not going to win the division and all that jazz, our "shit the bed" game this year wasn't against fucking WSU like it was last year...

[RazorsEdgeAZ]

Yeah, don't believe Defense was the issue last night. Defense seemed to tire out early 4th. Even Scooby "only" had couple tackles in the 4th.

The 460 yards UCLA put is 2nd fewest for UCLA in Pac12 play. ASU, Oregon, Cal, Colorado defenses allowed UCLA more yards. Utah allowed fewer against UCLA at 406 yards.

[PieceOfMeat]

If you had been told prior to the game that Arizona would hold UCLA to 17 points, you would have taken it in a heartbeat and probably thought Arizona would win the game.

Yup, like I said, I would have said thank you very much. I definitely would have thought we'd win too.

[Merkin]

I thought UA was going to score nearly every drive, and same with UCLA. Thought it would be 48-45 game. Man was I wrong.

[PieceOfMeat]

I thought UA was going to score nearly every drive, and same with UCLA. Thought it would be 48-45 game. Man was I wrong.

Yeah I really figured it would be a high scoring affair. Good example, however, of why I don't bet.

[dmjcat]

D gave up to many 3rd and longs last night, and sure that 70 yard play was a break down.....but Scooby and the D did well vs ucla. Held them to half their season average on points.

I know a lot of us yearn for the days of old where we had a nationally ranked defense, but if you would have told me before the game started that the D would hold ucla to 17 points, I'd have said thank you very much.

I thought the D was spectacular last night. The offense and field goal kicking is what stunk up the joint. The offense was on the field for about 8 minutes (it seems) the entire game. They went 3 and out chronically and made the defense play most of the night in bad position. If you had been told prior to the game that Arizona would hold UCLA to 17 points, you would have taken it in a heartbeat and probably thought Arizona would win the game. UCLA's front line destroyed Arizona's O-line and Solomon had his worst game not helped by receivers who dropped the ball over and over again along with no running game.

Spectacular???? It gave up over 450 yards.

If you want to use that adjective I suggest you give it to the UCLA defense......they held us to just over 250 yards (under half our average).......now that may be called spectacular. Bottom line the UA defense was the lesser of two evils Saturday in Pasedena (the offense was certainly worse), but the defense was hardly spectacular. We gave up way too many yards between the 20's and let UCLA dominate the time of possession.

[Puerco]

Sorry, I must've missed the part where an offense's yards gained shows up on the scoreboard. Did someone change the rules when I wasn't looking? Last I checked the defense held UCLA to 17 points. That's pretty damned spectacular, especially when you consider what ASU's superior defense held them to.

[Scummy Dick Douglas]

Sorry, I must've missed the part where an offense's yards gained shows up on the scoreboard. Did someone change the rules when I wasn't looking? Last I checked the defense held UCLA to 17 points. That's pretty damned spectacular, especially when you consider what ASU's superior defense held them to.

^This. Holding ANY team in the conference to 17 points is pretty impressive. When searching for a reason for this loss, look to the UCLA defense/ UA offense.

[ANGCatFan]

Coach Casteel is one of the nominees for the Broyles Award as the top assistant coach in the country. Hopefully, the committee will recognize it takes a truly great coordinator to win with a defensive scheme denounced by the finest minds of the interwebs.

[PieceOfMeat]

Don't think we'll be dropping this any time soon!

[OSUCat]

Don't think we'll be dropping this any time soon!

Nope. I don't think OP knows anything.

The defense has been something else the last few weeks.

[Chicat]

Don't think we'll be dropping this any time soon!

Nope. I don't think OP knows anything.

The defense has been something else the last few weeks.

I was most definitely on the drop the 3-3-5 train, but I'm a fucking idiot. This defense wins games.