Bear Down Wildcats

CatsbyAZ wrote:

Chicat wrote:

CatsbyAZ wrote:

Gladiator Cat wrote:

CatsbyAZ wrote:
So no DL coach, and virtually no DL anyway.

Is the plan for someday a 0-3-5 defense?

CatsbyAZ,

This lengthy DL coach search is going to come back and haunt the **** outta us big-time next year. I'm not even saying this is RR fault but this is going to set us way way back.

This is effectively going to be a complete missed recruiting season on the defensive side of the ball unless Yates and Williams both turn into Superman and do the impossible.

I just don't see it.

What pisses me off is that a MWC school like Boise St has 7 DL commits going into signing day. 5 DEs - rivals ratings 5.6, 5.6, 5.5, 5.4 & 5.4; & 2 DTs
- 5.5 & 5.4. Meanwhile, for months, all our coaches have had is one local guy committed to play for a DL unit that's as undermanned as you can get. It's an intentionally negligent effort on the part of RichRod and his staff.

I guess that's why we made some changes.

By "changes" might you mean we've decided to actually try and recruit DL, instead of intentionally not? Still don't see any changes yet.

Well we did just secure a commitment for a kid projected to be a DE at some point, but he only weights 215 lbs.

In other (possibly more interesting) news, we did just get a grad transfer LB from Cal... Sounds like he could be a good one, although he did lose his starting role coming into this past season.

http://www.californiagoldenblogs.com/20 ... a-wildcats" target="_blank

Harvey Specter wrote:

CatsbyAZ wrote:
By "changes" might you mean we've decided to actually try and recruit DL, instead of intentionally not? Still don't see any changes yet.

Well we did just secure a commitment for a kid projected to be a DE at some point, but he only weights 215 lbs.

Which is analogous to trying to raise an F to a D grade just to get the credits. Seriously, where the heck was RichRod? It's not like some of the other coaches couldn't step out and stop the bleeding?

Harvey Specter wrote:In other (possibly more interesting) news, we did just get a grad transfer LB from Cal... Sounds like he could be a good one, although he did lose his starting role coming into this past season.

http://www.californiagoldenblogs.com/20 ... a-wildcats" target="_blank

By changes I mean the new defensive coaches. The guys who have been recruiting for us for only a couple of weeks.

I guess people think donte Yates addae should bringing in 5 star kids in only a hand full of weeks. All people wanted was for defensive coaches to canned and RR did just that. They bitched and complained about our shitty class then they decommit from us and they act like those kids were super great. I wasn't as down on this class as everybody else was and Look at where these decommits ended up going. Guess what to better schools then us. So maybe just maybe we weren't recruiting all that badly. I definitely think our new recruiters are going kick ass in the 17 class

Not a good look.

FightWildcatsFight wrote:

Fuck em! Fear no fork!

Anyone know what trophy the guy in the background is holding up?

FightWildcatsFight wrote:

Okay. I am all for pulling his offer now - although it would probably be like OSU pulling Kobi's.

It feels like we have lost at least half of the highly rated guys we had committed (5.7+ on Rivals), and we did not have too many to begin with.

Kid can kick rocks!

Shit man why can't we flip some of ASU commits our way

FightWildcatsFight wrote:Anyone know what trophy the guy in the background is holding up?

Looks like CFP trophy

Chicat wrote:

Harvey Specter wrote:In other (possibly more interesting) news, we did just get a grad transfer LB from Cal... Sounds like he could be a good one, although he did lose his starting role coming into this past season.

http://www.californiagoldenblogs.com/20 ... a-wildcats" target="_blank

Former DLS kid who was highly regarded

So the kid from Florida, did anyone look at his tape? Pretty good speed and looks to me like a kid if he stays lean plays OLB or speed rush end. If he puts on 40 pounds and keeps his speed and gains strength, we have another Brooks Reed.

azcat49 wrote:So the kid from Florida, did anyone look at his tape? Pretty good speed and looks to me like a kid if he stays lean plays OLB or speed rush end. If he puts on 40 pounds and keeps his speed and gains strength, we have another Brooks Reed.

But, let's be real here.

Newportcat wrote:I have to be honest but I hate college football recruiting. Maybe it would be different if Arizona recruited well but I swear seems like every year we lose more guys then we win and it's always hard to keep our best players as top programs can just grab them.

I follow it so closely but just so mind numbingly frustrating especially when so many of these guys never amount to anything of substance

Try to never look into baseball recruiting. We will get a kid in school, moved into his dorm, and a week later he signs a pro contract.

FightWildcatsFight wrote:Anyone know what trophy the guy in the background is holding up?

Two chamber bong!

http://www.scout.com/college/arizona/st ... th-arizona

This article was from less then a week ago

Didn't ASU actually lose their OC???

I seriously hate football recruiting. I do hate baseball recruiting too. College Basketball recruiting is mind numbing but also fun since we usually end up with great players.

Football, we just are not good at recruiting compared to other U of A sports. Hope these new coaches can turn it around

3goggles wrote:

By changes I mean the new defensive coaches. The guys who have been recruiting for us for only a couple of weeks.

I guess people think donte Yates addae should bringing in 5 star kids in only a hand full of weeks. All people wanted was for defensive coaches to canned and RR did just that. They bitched and complained about our shitty class then they decommit from us and they act like those kids were super great. I wasn't as down on this class as everybody else was and Look at where these decommits ended up going. Guess what to better schools then us. So maybe just maybe we weren't recruiting all that badly. I definitely think our new recruiters are going kick ass in the 17 class

Who was down on this class, I for one think it was a good class and said so in this thread before Allen de-committed. Think things went downhill from there and we lost some solid players like Allen, London, Modster, Burton, Doucet, Raynor, etc. A couple guys like Riley were not that big a loss.

Honestly, find post where before Allen de-committed posters were down on this class. I know I was WAY more excited about it then the 2015 class. Now, not so much.

Look at Cooper, not one of his potential offensive coaches left but is looking hard at ASU when they actually lost their OC.

You know Toad is using South Carolina against us with him.

Newportcat wrote:Didn't ASU actually lose their OC???

They didn't. Lindsey was strongly rumored to go back to Southern Miss to take the HC job there, but he decided to stay at ASU.

Newportcat wrote:

3goggles wrote:

By changes I mean the new defensive coaches. The guys who have been recruiting for us for only a couple of weeks.

I guess people think donte Yates addae should bringing in 5 star kids in only a hand full of weeks. All people wanted was for defensive coaches to canned and RR did just that. They bitched and complained about our shitty class then they decommit from us and they act like those kids were super great. I wasn't as down on this class as everybody else was and Look at where these decommits ended up going. Guess what to better schools then us. So maybe just maybe we weren't recruiting all that badly. I definitely think our new recruiters are going kick ass in the 17 class

Who was down on this class, I for one think it was a good class and said so in this thread before Allen de-committed. Think things went downhill from there and we lost some solid players like Allen, London, Modster, Burton, Doucet, Raynor, etc. A couple guys like Riley were not that big a loss.

Honestly, find post where before Allen de-committed posters were down on this class. I know I was WAY more excited about it then the 2015 class. Now, not so much.

Look at Cooper, not one of his potential offensive coaches left but is looking hard at ASU when they actually lost their OC.

You know Toad is using South Carolina against us with him.

Syracuse is still strongly in consideration too. The kid is conflicted, but with his coaching staff pushing UA, I doubt he ends up flipping even if he is on the fence right now.

Man I'll be glad when Wednesday comes and goes for sure and hit 2017 savage style

azcat49 wrote:So the kid from Florida, did anyone look at his tape? Pretty good speed and looks to me like a kid if he stays lean plays OLB or speed rush end. If he puts on 40 pounds and keeps his speed and gains strength, we have another Brooks Reed.

I love your optimism, but that is a lot of IF's.

If I ran a 4.3 and was 25 years younger.... (and that is only 2)

azpenguin wrote:

Newportcat wrote:Didn't ASU actually lose their OC???

They didn't. Lindsey was strongly rumored to go back to Southern Miss to take the HC job there, but he decided to stay at ASU.

What? ASU just hired Lindsay away from Southern Miss after their OC, Mike Norvell, was hired at Memphis

Unless I'm totally lost in the direction of this conversation.

http://www.azcentral.com/story/sports/n ... /79352244/

After talking with Southern Miss about its head-coaching position, Arizona State offensive coordinator Chip Lindsey is staying with the Sun Devils.

Lindsey, 40, this week emerged as a strong candidate to replace coach Todd Monken, who left Southern Miss to join Dirk Koetter's staff with the Tampa Bay Buccaneers. The move made sense. Before his ASU hire Dec. 11, Lindsey had spent the previous two seasons as offensive coordinator at Southern Miss.

Lindsey was in Tempe less than 2 months before Southern Miss came calling. He was rumored to be their top candidate before Lindsey withdrew from consideration. His wife supposedly played a big part in that decision.

Viramontes to Cal..

Getting the impression Chacho, and Himphill are looking pretty good! Hoping the staff can pull one of Allen, Burton, or Jackson, with Allen probably of biggest need.

ramcat wrote:Viramontes to Cal..

Getting the impression Chacho, and Himphill are looking pretty good! Hoping the staff can pull one of Allen, Burton, or Jackson, with Allen probably of biggest need.

Barton has confirmed he will play for the UofA.
http://www.californiagoldenblogs.com/20 ... a-wildcats" target="_blank

Irish27 wrote:

ramcat wrote:Viramontes to Cal..

Getting the impression Chacho, and Himphill are looking pretty good! Hoping the staff can pull one of Allen, Burton, or Jackson, with Allen probably of biggest need.

Barton has confirmed he will play for the UofA.
http://www.californiagoldenblogs.com/20 ... a-wildcats" target="_blank

Not sure if you were referring to my mention of Burton being Barton? Brandon Burton is a safety that has a remote chance with but is likely to USC or UCLA, I believe.

azpenguin wrote:

Newportcat wrote:Didn't ASU actually lose their OC???

They didn't. Lindsey was strongly rumored to go back to Southern Miss to take the HC job there, but he decided to stay at ASU.

Was referring to Norvell in that everyone here is making all these excuses why we have these de commits based on the coaching changes but ASU goes through the same thing and is potentially taking our recruits.

ramcat wrote:Viramontes to Cal..

Where are you seeing this? All I've seen is that he took an official there this weekend.

UAEebs86 wrote:

ramcat wrote:Viramontes to Cal..

Where are you seeing this? All I've seen is that he took an official there this weekend.

My apologies, can't seem to find it? Thought I saw it on Scheer twitter feed? Would have attached but am clueless with this phone of mine. Some twitter feed had it, I think. Saw some Cal fans rejoicing! Ugh!

Yes, the new defensive coaches need time more time than this class to see how they can recruit. But I don't sweep all that under the carpet as an entire excuse or reason for this years potential poor recruiting class.

I said before, I think AZ was caught flat footed or didn't handle as well as others P12 programs. Not sure. Several other P12 programs went through staff changes. AZ played their bowl game on the first day of FBS Bowl games.

Dec. 19.

AZ didn't announce Casteel not returning until Jan. 4.

Other programs made high level staff changes and their recruiting class slide does not seem as steep as AZ's

Oregon replaced its DC (kept Pellum)
ntOSU lost its DC. now BYU HC
WSU with bunch new Offenseive assistants
ASU New OC
USC, well sweeping changes both sides of ball
UTAH had their DC retire
UCLA lost its OC

AZ had both defensive and offensive recruits decommit. Some, AZ wanted to push back too. Always some of that , but not to the degree AZ seeing. ntOSU making scheme changes both sides of the ball (I think) with their new coaches.

Coaching changes assistants or HCs happen in bunches every year in FBS. I just don't see what AZ going through as the standard impact. But that's me. Just comparing to other P12 teams. Of course, before AZ staff changes, AZ was already pretty low on the class rankings.

So what's the solution?

I don't think firing RichRod at this point is going to drastically improve this year's class, but maybe that's just me...

I wasn't calling for a solution or stating a problem other than AZ responded late or got caught flat-footed. Could be lots of reasons why the slide. Some RR flirting with another job, telling kids to grey-shirt, Delay in responding with Casteel, negative recruiting, taking commits too early or RR fatigue with parents and recruits. Happens to most all coaching programs after awhile. I'm throwing out that it's not just the new staff needs more time (they do) and this class is this class JUST-ONLY because of staff changes. I think there's more to it (see p12 list of changes).

Fire RR? Not sure how that got into the convo...

Don't know. I'm hoping the staff has the solutions. I'm hoping staff has more inside knowledge of what's going on to make assessments. Would hope the staff doesn't think this is "normal" or keeping up with the rest of P12 in terms of impacts to staff change. If they do, well then they do. Do nothing, respond as if normal. If they don't then find solutions. They get paid well for making those honest assessments and problem solving.

Newportcat wrote:

azpenguin wrote:

Newportcat wrote:Didn't ASU actually lose their OC???

They didn't. Lindsey was strongly rumored to go back to Southern Miss to take the HC job there, but he decided to stay at ASU.

Was referring to Norvell in that everyone here is making all these excuses why we have these de commits based on the coaching changes but ASU goes through the same thing and is potentially taking our recruits.

ASU has not experienced a bunch of decommits, but their recruiting has stagnated since losing 4 coaches to Memphis, including their two best recruiters (Norvell and Long). At one point they were leaders for Byron Murphy and Lamar Jackson, which would have solidified another top 20 class. Instead, Murphy is UW bound and Jackson is likely to Nebraska. ASU is now looking at a class ranked in the low 40's, and are seemingly stuck on 18 commits for this class.

So while they have been able to hold on to their recruits, they are struggling to close out this class. Understandable given the coaches that have been there a month are scrambling to replace relationships cultivated by former coaches over several years. You guys got a couple solid recruiters, but its going to take time to see results.

RazorsEdgeAZ wrote:Fire RR? Not sure how that got into the convo...

Well, I see a lot of complaining, and finger-pointing, and it seems to be in RR's direction. So when thinking of solutions that was really the only one that came to mind. He's the captain of what many are saying is a sinking ship (even though the class is not finalized yet and none of these kids who many are saying are terrible have played even one down in an Arizona uniform).

So what's the answer? Seems many here are complaining just to complain. Haven't heard too many thoughts on what should be done differently, I'm figuring because those ideas don't exist. I guess if your hot take is that this class is filled with awful players who will drag us to the bottom of the Pac, this is the place to express it. My stance is more of a wait and see approach, but I understand the catharthis of the knee-jerk. Just wondering how far that knee-jerk extends and if firing RR enters the equation.

Scummy Dick Douglas wrote: ASU has not experienced a bunch of decommits, but their recruiting has stagnated since losing 4 coaches to Memphis, including their two best recruiters (Norvell and Long). At one point they were leaders for Byron Murphy and Lamar Jackson, which would have solidified another top 20 class. Instead, Murphy is UW bound and Jackson is likely to Nebraska. ASU is now looking at a class ranked in the low 40's, and are seemingly stuck on 18 commits for this class.

So while they have been able to hold on to their recruits, they are struggling to close out this class. Understandable given the coaches that have been there a month are scrambling to replace relationships cultivated by former coaches over several years. You guys got a couple solid recruiters, but its going to take time to see results.

Good post SDD, very informative.

I don't think RR knew the importance of Cali and west coast recruiting when he got here. Neither did his staff. They thought that there schemes and gimmicks were going to be the big factor and it helped them win the south. However, his stubbornness was his Achilles Heel and after last season, he saw the truth and decided to change it. That's a very positive thing because to me it shows his commitment to the school and his desire to be better. He knows Cali is important and he has hired staff accordingly plus allowed a scheme change. It's good. Yeah, I would have liked this class to be better but I know it will close out well and 2017 looks even more promising.

I think you are just seeing a lot of venting after what seems to be a bottom of the barrel recruiting class. I know, it could be that we have a whole bunch of 2*Scoobs but how likely is that? We might have one 2*Scoob in the bunch if we are lucky. There are probably a few folks who are anti-RR but I don't they were onboard in the first place. Either they were Stoops fans or didn't like what they saw in the media about RR. I, for one, am truly disappointed in the class. I am optimistic that this Coaching staff is better than the last, top to bottom. I think 2016 will be a House of Pain on the field to correspond with our last few recruiting classes.

UALoco wrote:I think you are just seeing a lot of venting after what seems to be a bottom of the barrel recruiting class. I know, it could be that we have a whole bunch of 2*Scoobs but how likely is that? We might have one 2*Scoob in the bunch if we are lucky. There are probably a few folks who are anti-RR but I don't they were onboard in the first place. Either they were Stoops fans or didn't like what they saw in the media about RR. I, for one, am truly disappointed in the class. I am optimistic that this Coaching staff is better than the last, top to bottom. I think 2016 will be a House of Pain on the field to correspond with our last few recruiting classes.

Our fans really need to learn that Scoob is an exception proving the rule. Every time I see someone justifiably concerned with offering and signing another 2star recruit it's immediately followed by "but Scooby was only two stars" and "have faith...blah, blah, blah." This shows zero understandings for lifting your odds by signing a higher caliber recruit in aggregate. Whether 2 or 3 or 4 stars a recruit is always case by case, but in aggregate a 4 star grouping will always be better than a 3 star grouping and so on. Sounds simple enough to not require an explanation, except that it's a topic of willful ignorance since Scoob came out of nowhere.

Plenty of studies have shown that those teams with higher ranked recruits win more than those with lower ranked recruits. Always be upsets, but as a general rule you it is very consistent.

Merkin wrote:Plenty of studies have shown that those teams with higher ranked recruits win more than those with lower ranked recruits. Always be upsets, but as a general rule you it is very consistent.

Which is why RR made the moves he did and hired who h did. Hard to pull off a miracle in two weeks of recruiting. These moves are meant to pay off in 2,3, 4 years.

Some of you people I swear, you'd complain if you got hung with a new rope. What did you think? If we hire new coaches for the defense that the 4 and 5 star recruits would suddenly fall out of the sky? Some of you people are even writing off the entire recruiting class and I don't get that at all. I even read one comment about the lack recruiting players for the defense was intentional negligence and that's just idiotic. So RR after four winning seasons and four bowl games and a PAC12 South title couldn't get more money at another school and you think getting fired because of a rotten defense will make him more desirable?
So far with the grayshirts this class has three four star recruits and a lot of very solid three stars. We also stand a good chance of landing at least two more 4 stars for the defense. We also now have in my opinion, better coaching for the defense and that's even without knowing who the DL coach is going to be yet.
I personally think our offense has been on the right track for sometime and now finally so is our defense.

But we want Chacho!!!!!!

Chicat wrote:

RazorsEdgeAZ wrote:Fire RR? Not sure how that got into the convo...

Well, I see a lot of complaining, and finger-pointing, and it seems to be in RR's direction. So when thinking of solutions that was really the only one that came to mind. He's the captain of what many are saying is a sinking ship (even though the class is not finalized yet and none of these kids who many are saying are terrible have played even one down in an Arizona uniform).

So what's the answer? Seems many here are complaining just to complain. Haven't heard too many thoughts on what should be done differently, I'm figuring because those ideas don't exist. I guess if your hot take is that this class is filled with awful players who will drag us to the bottom of the Pac, this is the place to express it. My stance is more of a wait and see approach, but I understand the catharthis of the knee-jerk. Just wondering how far that knee-jerk extends and if firing RR enters the equation.

I think there are a lot of observations/ opinions on the activities with the current class, which is what this thread is for... and given the gains and losses - most of the commentary is not positive.

Fair point on the hand wringing, because it is pointless - but I don't think anybody is calling for any coaching changes. We have nothing to do but observe the action, and comment on it.

I think some of the comments saying 'did you expect a bunch of 4-5 star commits in the first 2 weeks' are unfair. No one expected that, but I do not think we expected to lose a handful of very-to-fairly highly rated prospects only to replace them with some guys that look (on paper) like class-fillers. No doubt the coaching change (which we all virtually agree is positive) has been a near-term setback - but we have not seen staff changes elsewhere have the dramatic headwind to recruiting that ours seem to have had. Especially for staff members that reportedly did not recruit.

Should we wait until the class is announced? Probably, but this would be a pretty empty thread. We comment on every twist and turn, because that is what we do.

How has the recruiting activity since the changes were made compare to your expectations on the heels of them?

UALoco wrote:I think you are just seeing a lot of venting after what seems to be a bottom of the barrel recruiting class. I know, it could be that we have a whole bunch of 2*Scoobs but how likely is that? We might have one 2*Scoob in the bunch if we are lucky. There are probably a few folks who are anti-RR but I don't they were onboard in the first place. Either they were Stoops fans or didn't like what they saw in the media about RR. I, for one, am truly disappointed in the class. I am optimistic that this Coaching staff is better than the last, top to bottom. I think 2016 will be a House of Pain on the field to correspond with our last few recruiting classes.

^^^ Great take

I don't get too up or down about the recruiting. It's just such an unpredictable business. Obviously people will point to the bit about better rankings tend to mean better teams, but we're not 'Bama, and while the coaches try to get the best classes they can, you never know what we're going to end up with down the road. You get the 5 star bust, the 2 star guy who blows up, the four-star who never makes it to campus, the three-star who ends up making a season-turning play, the blue chip guys that you finally get in on only to have them flip late, so on and so forth... and these are a bunch of 17 year old kids for the most part.

As I've said before, I'm less concerned about this recruiting class than I am to see what the new coaching staff does with the guys who are in place. There is, at least in my opinion, more talent on the roster than people think. Maybe not top ten defense caliber, but enough to put a serviceable defensive unit on the field. That's more of a barometer than anything. Put a 70-80ish nationally defense on the field and Arizona wins at least 9-10 games. Do that and there's a lot more confidence in what they can do with future recruits.

Looks like cooper decommited. Says it's open with ASU, AZ and The Orange

3goggles wrote:Looks like cooper decommited. Says it's open with ASU, AZ and The Orange

A dime a dozen player. Anyone who is a friend of ASU is not a friend of mine, have fun at Tempe Normal. Burton, Modster, Allen, and Iakopo are still the only guys I am sad to see go.