General Malaise and Complaining about the Football Program

[OSUCat]

There is a small group of Arizona "investors" who are putting up the money to get RR out by December is a small tidbit that I heard in passing.

I got the image of Chief and friends siting around in the backyard passing one dollar bills saying "Damn, another 6.8 million to go." Ha.

Still good to hear that there are still "investors" interested in Arizona Football.

[TheGreatCatsby]

Rich should just donate his $7+ mill dollar buyout, and we'll call it the Richard A. Rodriguez Indoor Practice and Training Facility for 10 years

[chiefzona]

There is a small group of Arizona "investors" who are putting up the money to get RR out by December is a small tidbit that I heard in passing.

I got the image of Chief and friends siting around in the backyard passing one dollar bills saying "Damn, another 6.8 million to go." Ha.

Still good to hear that there are still "investors" interested in Arizona Football.

That's about right.

[Alieberman]

There is a small group of Arizona "investors" who are putting up the money to get RR out by December is a small tidbit that I heard in passing.

I got the image of Chief and friends siting around in the backyard passing one dollar bills saying "Damn, another 6.8 million to go." Ha.

Still good to hear that there are still "investors" interested in Arizona Football.

I'd pitch in $5

[ChooChooCat]

I had heard that there was the kind of preliminary discussion that kicks off a process like this with an AD and donors that there was interest in removing RR if he lost this Houston game. I am going to assume those forces within our inner circle are sticking to their word and things are already moving. That doesn't mean he is getting fired now...but I believe, based on what I heard weeks ago, that it is done...the necessary discussions about money and what direction to take are already underway.

Have heard the same, although to be fair the "inner circle" have been prepping for it since before the season began. The loss to Houston just accelerated those discussions though. If he loses the team or all of Tucson by the time the Utah game is over he'll be done then. He could last the entire season, but I highly doubt it.

[Puerco]

I don't see any reason to wait. I read an article by some douchebag last year that made the case to fire RR then, and the only reason was because if 1) he was almost guaranteed to be fired after the 2017 season you should go ahead and fire him ASAP because 2) hiring a new young coach is essentially a crap shoot, so you want to get that process moving as quickly as possible in order to fire the next guy ASAP if you don't get lucky with the hire (and so on and so on).

Makes a lot of sense, actually. Although I remember really despising the guy who wrote it.

[RazorsEdgeAZ]

The trend last couple years has been most coaches fired before November. Also think the new early signing period will come into play here. If you wait to fire after December signing date and there's speculation about the coach, possible hard to get early signings. Verbals then look elsewhere before normal signing period, especially if you end up firing the coach. Early signing date may even increase number of coaches fired mid-season. Avoid as much chaos (always will be some) and at least get the answer a new coach is coming and give time for a new coach to save some verbals and get his own before normal signing date.

The fired before November trend also gives the AD more time to plan and do back channel talks.

I'm looking at CTG at ASSU. ASSU probably won't be favored to win another game until November. ASSU might be headed to a 6-8 game losing streak. Would think CTG is the 1st between UA and them to fire the coach. Losing streak Gives ASSU AD easy cover to fire early and deal with recruiting class and early talks.

Imagine that puts some pressure on Heeke to act more quickly than not. Maybe end of October if RR does get fired. All guesses

[EVCat]

I had heard that there was the kind of preliminary discussion that kicks off a process like this with an AD and donors that there was interest in removing RR if he lost this Houston game. I am going to assume those forces within our inner circle are sticking to their word and things are already moving. That doesn't mean he is getting fired now...but I believe, based on what I heard weeks ago, that it is done...the necessary discussions about money and what direction to take are already underway.

Have heard the same, although to be fair the "inner circle" have been prepping for it since before the season began. The loss to Houston just accelerated those discussions though. If he loses the team or all of Tucson by the time the Utah game is over he'll be done then. He could last the entire season, but I highly doubt it.

Right...the conversation was had over the off season that Houston was the potential trigger, but the discussions have been happening for a while. The Houston game was just the reasonable (to some of the bigger donors) point to say "no...things are not changing" and actually begin engaging the AD, as much as that can be done without transparency. The point where the machine starts to move. I had also heard some say he would be gone if he lost to Houston, like gone this week, but that was more wishful thinking from the folks who are the most aggressive in this process.

It was never realistic that he would be fired now, but the noose is being prepared. I am not sure what it would take to change that...I think the Les Miles situation shows you have to do it sooner as opposed to later to avoid the emotional big win retention, but of course there is always a path to stop the process. It just isn't realistically going to happen.

[UALoco]

Here is my logic.

If we lose to UTEP, RR gets fired. I don't think this is going to happen.

It is really the P12 games that matter, and home P12 games that matter the most. So if we get boat raced by Utah at home, he gets fired. I think we can keep it close.

If we lose a close game to Utah, he gets a final warning. Then if he loses to Colorado, regardless of score, he gets fired. I think we can surprise Colorado after they play UW and UCLA...

If he wins the Utah game, he sticks around a bit longer. If he gets boat raced by Colorado, he gets fired. If it is close, he sticks around. If he gets boat raced by UCLA, he gets fired. (this is where I think it happens).

[chiefzona]

With RR apologists it's always been but but but but.......

[azcat49]

I think the 43K two weeks in a row speaks volumes about where Tucson is with RR. I think it just becomes how monetarily they look at it. Do they want to save his money to put into improvements or do they bite the bullet and pay two staffs and go from there.

I do think as long as he stays competitive he may get until the end of the year. This roster won't have big improvement IMO if he is let go and you have to pay him anyway.

At this point its go cats and win some games. Don't care about RR

[tgrumpy2]

With RR apologists it's always been but but but but.......

Who's apologizing for RR? I'm sure not and I haven't seen anyone else do it. All I get upset about is when people throw BS against the wall hoping it will stick. Now tell us Chief, since you started this thought a day or so ago that discussions are happening within inner circles somewhere and plans are being made to have RR gone by December,I believe is what you said. Who are these people and what inner circles. Come on put your money where your mouth is. Who told you? The reason I question this is because people that are truly "connected" somewhere, don't spread crap they hear like you do.They know if they do, they won't be connected for long.

[EVCat]

With RR apologists it's always been but but but but.......

With RR haters, the first years were "except, except, except".

You are not a special type. Or a deeper thinker. You just had a personal bias that happened to meet the end result. Yay for you. But during the first three years, the RR haters wanted to exclude all successes.

There were successes, huge mistakes, some incredibly bad luck, and some incredible hubris. All of this came together to where we are today, which is where it is time to make a change. But pretending to have had some kind of insight when so much unknown at the start influenced the failure we are at today is disingenuous, even if the end result matches your original prediction. Confirmation of hypothesis is not science unless it is met because of the factors cited from the start (incredible over-simplification of science...sorry, in advance, to the scientists)...

You wanted to be right, accompanied by UA failure more than you wanted to be wrong with UA success. That was clear in the times when success was present. So please don't insult the intelligence of everyone here. Like you care...I know. The act is well known.

[EVCat]

With RR apologists it's always been but but but but.......

Who's apologizing for RR? I'm sure not and I haven't seen anyone else do it. All I get upset about is when people throw BS against the wall hoping it will stick. Now tell us Chief, since you started this thought a day or so ago that discussions are happening within inner circles somewhere and plans are being made to have RR gone by December,I believe is what you said. Who are these people and what inner circles. Come on put your money where your mouth is. Who told you? The reason I question this is because people that are truly "connected" somewhere, don't spread crap they hear like you do.They know if they do, they won't be connected for long.

Well...on this, he is right on the money. Actually, those discussions have occurred among donors with clout for a while, but this game was a trigger for some to start "working" and engaging decision makers.

But people don't give up sources when they have them. Not on message boards. All you can do is follow the people who have consistently been right over the years.

[Spaceman Spiff]

With RR apologists it's always been but but but but.......

Who's apologizing for RR? I'm sure not and I haven't seen anyone else do it. All I get upset about is when people throw BS against the wall hoping it will stick. Now tell us Chief, since you started this thought a day or so ago that discussions are happening within inner circles somewhere and plans are being made to have RR gone by December,I believe is what you said. Who are these people and what inner circles. Come on put your money where your mouth is. Who told you? The reason I question this is because people that are truly "connected" somewhere, don't spread crap they hear like you do.They know if they do, they won't be connected for long.

I don't see anyone who thinks his future is anything other than compeletely dependent on this year's results, i.e., he produces or goes. I'm interested to see as well where this apologist clique is.

Just because some people don't hate everything about him...

[PHXCATS]

I think Chief is confusing the people like me who believe due to facilities fans tradition etc that it is tough to win here at Arizona so don't fire someone right away with a RR apologist.

I think RR deserved a chance to correct things this year based on his success the first four years but I would have been good sending him packing last year and it probably would have hurt financially but with the other jobs likely open this year it will be tough to get guys on the top of Heeke's list.

[azgreg]

[Merkin]

If Mike Leach and Mike Price can win in the Palouse, no reason why UA can't get a winner with better climate, hotter women, more population, more diversity, better facilities and so on.

Price took WSU to the Rose Bowl twice, with the worst facilities in the PAC.

Martin Stadium only has a capacity of 33.5K.

Doubt WSU would even be considered for the PAC today if they weren't in already.

[azcat49]

With RR apologists it's always been but but but but.......

With RR haters, the first years were "except, except, except".

You are not a special type. Or a deeper thinker. You just had a personal bias that happened to meet the end result. Yay for you. But during the first three years, the RR haters wanted to exclude all successes.

There were successes, huge mistakes, some incredibly bad luck, and some incredible hubris. All of this came together to where we are today, which is where it is time to make a change. But pretending to have had some kind of insight when so much unknown at the start influenced the failure we are at today is disingenuous, even if the end result matches your original prediction. Confirmation of hypothesis is not science unless it is met because of the factors cited from the start (incredible over-simplification of science...sorry, in advance, to the scientists)...

You wanted to be right, accompanied by UA failure more than you wanted to be wrong with UA success. That was clear in the times when success was present. So please don't insult the intelligence of everyone here. Like you care...I know. The act is well known.

Yep, no one will give up that info but it is right

[tgrumpy2]

With RR apologists it's always been but but but but.......

Who's apologizing for RR? I'm sure not and I haven't seen anyone else do it. All I get upset about is when people throw BS against the wall hoping it will stick. Now tell us Chief, since you started this thought a day or so ago that discussions are happening within inner circles somewhere and plans are being made to have RR gone by December,I believe is what you said. Who are these people and what inner circles. Come on put your money where your mouth is. Who told you? The reason I question this is because people that are truly "connected" somewhere, don't spread crap they hear like you do.They know if they do, they won't be connected for long.

Well...on this, he is right on the money. Actually, those discussions have occurred among donors with clout for a while, but this game was a trigger for some to start "working" and engaging decision makers.

But people don't give up sources when they have them. Not on message boards. All you can do is follow the people who have consistently been right over the years.

I haven't seen him right very often and I'm still looking at this as nothing more than gossip and wishful thinking on his part.

[tgrumpy2]

With RR apologists it's always been but but but but.......

With RR haters, the first years were "except, except, except".

You are not a special type. Or a deeper thinker. You just had a personal bias that happened to meet the end result. Yay for you. But during the first three years, the RR haters wanted to exclude all successes.

There were successes, huge mistakes, some incredibly bad luck, and some incredible hubris. All of this came together to where we are today, which is where it is time to make a change. But pretending to have had some kind of insight when so much unknown at the start influenced the failure we are at today is disingenuous, even if the end result matches your original prediction. Confirmation of hypothesis is not science unless it is met because of the factors cited from the start (incredible over-simplification of science...sorry, in advance, to the scientists)...

You wanted to be right, accompanied by UA failure more than you wanted to be wrong with UA success. That was clear in the times when success was present. So please don't insult the intelligence of everyone here. Like you care...I know. The act is well known.

Yep, no one will give up that info but it is right

That is spot on right!

[chiefzona]

With RR apologists it's always been but but but but.......

With RR haters, the first years were "except, except, except".

You are not a special type. Or a deeper thinker. You just had a personal bias that happened to meet the end result. Yay for you. But during the first three years, the RR haters wanted to exclude all successes.

There were successes, huge mistakes, some incredibly bad luck, and some incredible hubris. All of this came together to where we are today, which is where it is time to make a change. But pretending to have had some kind of insight when so much unknown at the start influenced the failure we are at today is disingenuous, even if the end result matches your original prediction. Confirmation of hypothesis is not science unless it is met because of the factors cited from the start (incredible over-simplification of science...sorry, in advance, to the scientists)...

You wanted to be right, accompanied by UA failure more than you wanted to be wrong with UA success. That was clear in the times when success was present. So please don't insult the intelligence of everyone here. Like you care...I know. The act is well known.

I'm just a lowly poster who made a wild guess and 85% of what I guessed came true. How's that for your hubris and scientific hypothesis. I'm a football guy and I know bullshit when I see it. I've seen through Rich Rod's bullshit from day one. It's just that simple. Entertaining post though buddy. Good try.

[chiefzona]

You'll see the tuck tail and run guys here who will start saying that they were never behind RR or his recruiting and decisions. Just wait for it. It's all coming. I'm already getting messages of guys apologizing for calling me out on a message board three years ago. It is a freakin clown show. It'll get better....just you wait.

[azcat49]

People can change but seldom do they. Nice job Uncle Rico. We need you as our AD, head writer for the paper, evaluator of talent and hey, you should coach our football team. You are definitely one of a kind

[PHXCATS]

People can change but seldom do they. Nice job Uncle Rico. We need you as our AD, head writer for the paper, evaluator of talent and hey, you should coach our football team. You are definitely one of a kind

I love the idea. He obviously can recruit and has the football knowledge and game planning needed to win. Plus he does not need a housing allowance and has incredible footwork he can pass down to the new QBs.

[chiefzona]

People can change but seldom do they. Nice job Uncle Rico. We need you as our AD, head writer for the paper, evaluator of talent and hey, you should coach our football team. You are definitely one of a kind

Thanks bud. No thanks. Heeke has a CMU retread in mind. I'm retired from football. I just get to watch now. Fun fun fun.

[prh]

People can change but seldom do they. Nice job Uncle Rico. We need you as our AD, head writer for the paper, evaluator of talent and hey, you should coach our football team. You are definitely one of a kind

Thanks bud. No thanks. Heeke has a CMU retread in mind. I'm retired from football. I just get to watch now. Fun fun fun.

Don't like the sound of that. There's one of those in my head that should be available by the end of this year.

[ChooChooCat]

People can change but seldom do they. Nice job Uncle Rico. We need you as our AD, head writer for the paper, evaluator of talent and hey, you should coach our football team. You are definitely one of a kind

Thanks bud. No thanks. Heeke has a CMU retread in mind. I'm retired from football. I just get to watch now. Fun fun fun.

Yay Butch or Kelly!

Ugh I'm so tired of retreads. Up and coming coordinators or gtfo. I don't buy what you're spitting, but either way if Heeke hires a retread of any kind I will not support the program.

[azcat49]

LOL, like you know what Heeke is going to do. You are all knowing. I am sure he sits around and tells your supposed contacts.

[ChooChooCat]

Jesus we could do the same for Stoops regime and it'd look similar. Arizona and 4 star recruits simply don't work.

[RazorsEdgeAZ]

People can change but seldom do they. Nice job Uncle Rico. We need you as our AD, head writer for the paper, evaluator of talent and hey, you should coach our football team. You are definitely one of a kind

Thanks bud. No thanks. Heeke has a CMU retread in mind. I'm retired from football. I just get to watch now. Fun fun fun.

Yay Butch or Kelly!

Ugh I'm so tired of retreads. Up and coming coordinators or gtfo. I don't fully buy what you're spitting, but either way if Heeke hires a retread of any kind I will not support the program.

Would seem weird. Butch in RR's coaching tree

[PHXCATS]

People can change but seldom do they. Nice job Uncle Rico. We need you as our AD, head writer for the paper, evaluator of talent and hey, you should coach our football team. You are definitely one of a kind

Thanks bud. No thanks. Heeke has a CMU retread in mind. I'm retired from football. I just get to watch now. Fun fun fun.

[ChooChooCat]

With RR apologists it's always been but but but but.......

With RR haters, the first years were "except, except, except".

You are not a special type. Or a deeper thinker. You just had a personal bias that happened to meet the end result. Yay for you. But during the first three years, the RR haters wanted to exclude all successes.

There were successes, huge mistakes, some incredibly bad luck, and some incredible hubris. All of this came together to where we are today, which is where it is time to make a change. But pretending to have had some kind of insight when so much unknown at the start influenced the failure we are at today is disingenuous, even if the end result matches your original prediction. Confirmation of hypothesis is not science unless it is met because of the factors cited from the start (incredible over-simplification of science...sorry, in advance, to the scientists)...

You wanted to be right, accompanied by UA failure more than you wanted to be wrong with UA success. That was clear in the times when success was present. So please don't insult the intelligence of everyone here. Like you care...I know. The act is well known.

[chiefzona]

LOL, like you know what Heeke is going to do. You are all knowing. I am sure he sits around and tells your supposed contacts.

I could care less who he hires. It's his call. He doesn't have the best football hiring track record but I guess there's always hope, right?

[Harvey Specter]

Jesus we could do the same for Stoops regime and it'd look similar. Arizona and 4 star recruits simply don't work.

That is not true. Stoops, at his best, recruited at a level that RR never sniffed. He had the 3rd ranked recruiting class in the PAC in back to back seasons.

Not that he did that much with the talent he had, but he did amass a better career conference winning % than Rodriguez. And he inherited much, much worse from Mackovic.

We will never recruit like USC & UCLA...but I do not accept this notion that RR's recruiting level is our ceiling as a program.

[azcat49]

He had 4 defensive lineman that were drafted on the roster at the same time. EMFM, D'Andre Reed, Brooks Reed and Ricky Elmore.

He had Carey and Foles and the WR that played for the raiders. He recruited NFL type guys. We have mountain west guys

[Harvey Specter]

People can change but seldom do they. Nice job Uncle Rico. We need you as our AD, head writer for the paper, evaluator of talent and hey, you should coach our football team. You are definitely one of a kind

Thanks bud. No thanks. Heeke has a CMU retread in mind. I'm retired from football. I just get to watch now. Fun fun fun.

Yay Butch or Kelly!

Ugh I'm so tired of retreads. Up and coming coordinators or gtfo. I don't buy what you're spitting, but either way if Heeke hires a retread of any kind I will not support the program.

If we hire Brian Kelly, I will lose complete interest in this program.... I was not a fan of the RR hire at all. I'd like this one less.

If we are going to hire a coach that's all about himself, he BETTER be damn good. And no more re-treads.

[ASUHATER!]

I would hate a Brian Kelly hire so much

[chiefzona]

In no way am I advocating a Brian Kelly hire but he couldn't do any worse than this guy. This clown is pathetic.

[3rdand25]

Fans have already fired RR. But they are fickle, if he can turn things around this year, (and he absolutely should finish out the season) he may be back.

Worst thing that was done was firing Stoops BEFORE the fans had fired him. Attendance crashed and it doesn't appear that it ever fully recovered. This was (at least in my mind) an epic blunder by the new on the job AD.

[3rdand25]

He had 4 defensive lineman that were drafted on the roster at the same time. EMFM, D'undre Reed, Brooks Reed and Ricky Elmore.

He had Carey and Files and the WR that played for the raiders. He recruited NFL type guys. We have mountain west guys

I have heard folks questioning the talent/recruiting during Stoops tenure... LOL
We had a team with future NFLer's Gronkowski at TE and Mike Thomas in the slot. Willie Tuitama at QB. Antoine Cason (worth the price of admission) playing CB. Multiple marginal NFL quality DBs. Linemen like Brooks Reed. Kadeem Carey, Nick Foles. The receiver you were thinking of was Juron Criner, that guy was awesome. Bottom line, for the fans, there was a crazy passionate coach recruiting well and learning on the job and some players worth watching, even if the team didn't always win . Maybe if AZ needs a coach at the end of the season, they can bring in Bob Stoops

[SCCats]

I'll say this: our success started going down hill as soon as SOMEONE around here personally gave Rich a purple jello shooter.

Now I'm not going to say who that was, but that person knows who they are and must find a way to atone or otherwise break the purple jello shooter curse or I fear we will be stuck in football purgatory forever.

[TucsonClip]

I'm a football guy and I know bullshit when I see it. I've seen through Rich Rod's bullshit from day one. It's just that simple. Entertaining post though buddy. Good try.

Wait, im confused... Which one is it?

It's funny how true football people see it long before average fan catches up to it. Problem is that the football guys catch hell for it. Now all the RR backers have run away and refuse to apologize

I still think he should have been offered as a preferred walk on and he still would have been a Cat but hey....who am I? Just a basketball guy with an opinion just like you. Stay thirsty my friend.

Nope. I don't know anything about football. I'm a basketball guy.

But hey....I'm not a basketball guy nor do I pretend to be.

[chiefzona]

I'm a football guy and I know bullshit when I see it. I've seen through Rich Rod's bullshit from day one. It's just that simple. Entertaining post though buddy. Good try.

Wait, im confused... Which one is it?

It's funny how true football people see it long before average fan catches up to it. Problem is that the football guys catch hell for it. Now all the RR backers have run away and refuse to apologize

I still think he should have been offered as a preferred walk on and he still would have been a Cat but hey....who am I? Just a basketball guy with an opinion just like you. Stay thirsty my friend.

Nope. I don't know anything about football. I'm a basketball guy.

But hey....I'm not a basketball guy nor do I pretend to be.

I'm flattered. Thanks for taking the time to do that. Now look back at how many times I said.....it's a message board.

[chiefzona]

I'll say this: our success started going down hill as soon as SOMEONE around here personally gave Rich a purple jello shooter.

Now I'm not going to say who that was, but that person knows who they are and must find a way to atone or otherwise break the purple jello shooter curse or I fear we will be stuck in football purgatory forever.

It was actually a green Jell-O shot.

[TucsonClip]

I'm a football guy and I know bullshit when I see it. I've seen through Rich Rod's bullshit from day one. It's just that simple. Entertaining post though buddy. Good try.

Wait, im confused... Which one is it?

It's funny how true football people see it long before average fan catches up to it. Problem is that the football guys catch hell for it. Now all the RR backers have run away and refuse to apologize

I still think he should have been offered as a preferred walk on and he still would have been a Cat but hey....who am I? Just a basketball guy with an opinion just like you. Stay thirsty my friend.

Nope. I don't know anything about football. I'm a basketball guy.

But hey....I'm not a basketball guy nor do I pretend to be.

I'm flattered. Thanks for taking the time to do that. Now look back at how many times I said.....it's a message board.

Apparently, neither sarcasm nor understanding technology are in your arsenal.

[NYCat]

The program needs talent, call Joey Freshwater

[chiefzona]

I'm a football guy and I know bullshit when I see it. I've seen through Rich Rod's bullshit from day one. It's just that simple. Entertaining post though buddy. Good try.

Wait, im confused... Which one is it?

It's funny how true football people see it long before average fan catches up to it. Problem is that the football guys catch hell for it. Now all the RR backers have run away and refuse to apologize

I still think he should have been offered as a preferred walk on and he still would have been a Cat but hey....who am I? Just a basketball guy with an opinion just like you. Stay thirsty my friend.

Nope. I don't know anything about football. I'm a basketball guy.

But hey....I'm not a basketball guy nor do I pretend to be.

I'm flattered. Thanks for taking the time to do that. Now look back at how many times I said.....it's a message board.

Apparently, neither sarcasm nor understanding technology are in your arsenal.

Oh, don't worry. I got it. Good stuff Tucson Cut and Paste.

[EVCat]

You'll see the tuck tail and run guys here who will start saying that they were never behind RR or his recruiting and decisions. Just wait for it. It's all coming. I'm already getting messages of guys apologizing for calling me out on a message board three years ago. It is a freakin clown show. It'll get better....just you wait.

That's stupid. If anyone apologizes to you, they deserve whatever derision they get. You were calling him out while he was winning. That is personal, not structural.

Every coach has a few. Didn't recruit their players, or someone they know had a bad experience with them, and they turn into haters.

There is no "nice try, buddy" here. You are just another Cogent who had the end result you wanted. You are a 'football guy' There are a thousand of them in the stands of every Chandler or Hamilton or Mountain Pointe game. Some are assistant coaches. The worst are former players...talk about territorial. A few have blogs/websites. They know less than the janitor in LSFF. It is all about ego.

You have made it clear you are really into your ego here, and elevate this to an identity. That's your trip...but the motives for your hate are transparent. In this case, like the case with almost every Arizona coach, we need to replace the coach. But your criticisms were personal when the program looked healthy as could be. They still are personal.

But you are a football guy...

[EVCat]

Jesus we could do the same for Stoops regime and it'd look similar. Arizona and 4 star recruits simply don't work.

That is not true. Stoops, at his best, recruited at a level that RR never sniffed. He had the 3rd ranked recruiting class in the PAC in back to back seasons.

Not that he did that much with the talent he had, but he did amass a better career conference winning % than Rodriguez. And he inherited much, much worse from Mackovic.

We will never recruit like USC & UCLA...but I do not accept this notion that RR's recruiting level is our ceiling as a program.

Stoops also had personal issues that derailed what was a growing program. He had some coaching flaws that were always going to get in the way of greatness unless he matured (his lack of control, butting into the offensive calls without constructive authority but petulance (causing numerous delay of games and timeout burns), insistence on staying in base packages and believing the other team had to "adjust"), but when his personal life derailed, the program derailed. Duane had one look at it (well, multiple, around the same player's attempt to just go home for Christmas) and GTFO.

RichRod had the same early success/build, and did it with some lesser "stars"...OKG was mixing with talent like Anu and Nick, but having a freshman QB star that never learned how to protect his head and literally got "hit" out of running the offense and the insane wave of injuries in year 4, mixed with Williams' carpetbagging were factors out of his control. What was in his control was recognizing the lack of D recruiting (not OKG, but just lazy) and waiting to make a replacement, and the incredible damage to coach and player retention/acquisition the back-to-back public flirting with other jobs did. That was all on RichRod. But his system is a great one for a school that needs to compete with 5 star schools with much lower level recruiting. He generated offensive results when he had his 1st string players. Dawkins was never supposed to be our starting QB. Ever. The mix of his mistakes and some bad luck ended this. And it should be finished. This team, as constructed, cannot win, and that is on him. But there was no evidence of that happening in the first 3 years, no special tea leaves that some people read.