Coach Sumlin

[azgreg]

Will be interesting to get Sumlin's take on the talent when they start Spring practice. I am a little bit hopeful, since there were so many Freshmen starters last year who will be more experienced.

I can't remember when it was but there was one year when Stanford played a lot of young guys on defense and they were't very good. The next year they were near the top of the league.

Just look at Desert Swarm. Those guys were starting as Frenshmen too and they weren't very good.

They say history sometimes repeats. Let's hope so again.

[Spaceman Spiff]

There is only one fear I have. Say what you will about Rich Rod but he did smoke/mirror limited talent into wins. This past year's team would have only won 3-4 games tops if Dawkins isn't injured at Colorado. I'm not entirely sold that this team has talent returning. I thought our WR's were extremely weak and we have to build a new O-line next season.

Wins against mid-major opponents and losses against conference teams. Let’s not overstate RichRod’s accomplishments.

Eh, he had some pretty good upsets. Oregon two years in a row was impressive. Pulling one off vs OSU and USC in his first year were legit upsets.

We beat #10 Utah in 2015 and #15 WSU last year. Reasonably, he pulled a top 15 upset every year but 2014, when we were good and it wasn't an upset and 2016, which was a disaster.

[azgreg]

There is only one fear I have. Say what you will about Rich Rod but he did smoke/mirror limited talent into wins. This past year's team would have only won 3-4 games tops if Dawkins isn't injured at Colorado. I'm not entirely sold that this team has talent returning. I thought our WR's were extremely weak and we have to build a new O-line next season.

Wins against mid-major opponents and losses against conference teams. Let’s not overstate RichRod’s accomplishments.

Eh, he had some pretty good upsets. Oregon two years in a row was impressive. Pulling one off vs OSU and USC in his first year were legit upsets.

We beat #10 Utah in 2015 and #15 WSU last year. Reasonably, he pulled a top 15 upset every year but 2014, when we were good and it wasn't an upset and 2016, which was a disaster.

That's been Arizona football in a nutshell thought right? Mediocre with an occasional shot of brightness.

[Spaceman Spiff]

Will be interesting to get Sumlin's take on the talent when they start Spring practice. I am a little bit hopeful, since there were so many Freshmen starters last year who will be more experienced.

I can't remember when it was but there was one year when Stanford played a lot of young guys on defense and they were't very good. The next year they were near the top of the league.

Just look at Desert Swarm. Those guys were starting as Frenshmen too and they weren't very good.

They say history sometimes repeats. Let's hope so again.

I have some optimism on D. We had a ton of youth and didn't lose much. If Sumlin keeps Yates and/or hires a decent d/c, there's no reason we can't push forwards and improve.

Offensively, if we can get decent O-line play, Tate is obviously the showpiece to keep us good there. Hater's posts aside, there's something to build on here. I would be disappointed if we weren't bowl eligible.

[jimson]

Well yeah...but I don't get how that logic works since I have no say in if he would get fired or not. In my view as 1 individual fan, he needed that many wins to keep his job. But I knew that that would be impossible with the roster with have, especially under his "leadership".

Plenty think we have a solid foundation of returnees.
https://www.azcentral.com/story/sports/ ... 016820001/" target="_blank

[ASUHATER!]

I disagree. Our depth and overall talent level is abysmal. And has been for years.

[Carcassdragger]

I disagree. Our depth and overall talent level is abysmal. And has been for years.

Wrong.

[ASUHATER!]

I disagree. Our depth and overall talent level is abysmal. And has been for years.

Wrong.

Proof?


Oh yeah...you don't have any. Our back to back to back to back to back to back mediocre to bad recruiting classes, any injuries at all completely hobbling huge swathes of the team and the fact that we never get any highly rated recruits proves my point perfectly. Our talent level and depth is beyond awful.

[TheGreatCatsby]

Sumlin in his own way is running his early operation like the NFL is doing it right now in places, like it so far. Just like how the Bears did with hiring a good offensive minded coach in Nagy, and hired a new offensive coordinator to run the offense he did in KC (Helfrich for Trubisky), he kept veteran defensive coordinator Fangio to keep continuity there, and the defense players liked him, so he can more or less at the start leave that be. In these situations the seat probably gets hot a little quicker if the defense struggles, though.

Keeping Yates is the same, allows Sumlin the luxury of not necessarily having to install a whole new defense too in year 1, can just rebuild his team one side at a time. He can work with Yates on making some tweaks on D, but he can dedicate more his time on the offense. Yates at some point will get on the hot seat if the defense struggles mightily, but continuity on that side should help. The D at least schemed much better last year, weren't near as lost in space as we were under Casteel, but still gave up alot of yards and points. Sure Yates will be seeking improvement.

Will be interesting to see if Sumlin has time to recruit some more high impact defensive players to help Yates, especially defensive lineman. This possibly is a time where we could really use a couple big juco transfers to make an impact, if we might get some that are game ready--especially a few new big lineman, and a linebacker--and coach 'em up. Some new difference makers on defense to go with a new offense should help fill up the stands.

[Spaceman Spiff]

I disagree. Our depth and overall talent level is abysmal. And has been for years.

Wrong.

Proof?

Oh yeah...you don't have any. Our back to back to back to back to back to back mediocre to bad recruiting classes, any injuries at all completely hobbling huge swathes of the team and the fact that we never get any highly rated recruits proves my point perfectly. Our talent level and depth is beyond awful.

We had a guy who generated Heisman buzz, the co-offensive Freshman of the year in the Pac and the defensive Freshman of the year.

We had a winning season, Pac record and bowl game. If the talent level was that bad, maybe we shouldn't have fired RR.

[ASUHATER!]

I disagree. Our depth and overall talent level is abysmal. And has been for years.

Wrong.

Proof?

Oh yeah...you don't have any. Our back to back to back to back to back to back mediocre to bad recruiting classes, any injuries at all completely hobbling huge swathes of the team and the fact that we never get any highly rated recruits proves my point perfectly. Our talent level and depth is beyond awful.

We had a guy who generated Heisman buzz, the co-offensive Freshman of the year in the Pac and the defensive Freshman of the year.

We had a winning season, Pac record and bowl game. If the talent level was that bad, maybe we shouldn't have fired RR.

Pointing out 3 guys in no way disproves anything I said. I never said that we didn't have those 3 good players. It's the entire talent level of the team and our depth that is abysmal. And that is an inarguable fact at this point.

[Spaceman Spiff]

I disagree. Our depth and overall talent level is abysmal. And has been for years.

Wrong.

Proof?

Oh yeah...you don't have any. Our back to back to back to back to back to back mediocre to bad recruiting classes, any injuries at all completely hobbling huge swathes of the team and the fact that we never get any highly rated recruits proves my point perfectly. Our talent level and depth is beyond awful.

We had a guy who generated Heisman buzz, the co-offensive Freshman of the year in the Pac and the defensive Freshman of the year.

We had a winning season, Pac record and bowl game. If the talent level was that bad, maybe we shouldn't have fired RR.

Pointing out 3 guys in no way disproves anything I said. I never said that we didn't have those 3 good players. It's the entire talent level of the team and our depth that is abysmal. And that is an inarguable fact at this point.

Like I said, I'm regretting letting a coach go if he could get a winning record, winning Pac record and bowl game out of such a bunch of misfits.

Just saying something, then claiming it is inarguable doesn't make it so.

[ASUHATER!]

Well in this case it is, I'm very sorry if you disagree. Any objective person looking at our depth and roster cannot come to any conclusions other than that it is not very good. That's just how it is, same as the sun rising in the east.

[UofAlum05]

Anyone who thinks the overall talent and depth on the current squad is good hasn't watched much college football around the country. I sat 10 rows up at the Rose Bowl this year. Georgia had Safeties who were the size of our Defensive Ends. The state of Defensive line is an absolute embarrassment for a P5 school, actually I've seen Group of 5 schools with superior talent to us on the DL side of the ball. Our WR talent has dropped tremendously from the first season or two of RRod.

It has amazed that RRod/Casteel somehow recruited players that were both small and slow. How does that even happen?

I honestly think Sumlin's heart is going to sink into his stomach when he sees the level of talent at the first spring practice. Yeah we had some True Freshman defensive stand outs. But those guys wouldn't even be getting a sniff of action for an SEC school.

[PHXCATS]

I don't think anyone is saying UA should beat Bama but since you were so close for one game 05, name me 4 or more games all things being equal and all teams injury free for now that UA will be dogs in?

[Harvey Specter]

I don't think anyone is saying UA should beat Bama but since you were so close for one game 05, name me 4 or more games all things being equal and all teams injury free for now that UA will be dogs in?

You running around saying UA will be favored in 9 games does not make it so.... no matter how much you try to convince yourself that it does.

Let's wait until next year and keep track of how many games they will be favored in. My bet? It won't be 9.

That impressive 3 game losing streak to end the season did not exactly inspire confidence... nor did the fact that we only beat one team in the upper division of the conference, and lost to 2 in the lower half.

[Harvey Specter]

Will be interesting to get Sumlin's take on the talent when they start Spring practice. I am a little bit hopeful, since there were so many Freshmen starters last year who will be more experienced.

I can't remember when it was but there was one year when Stanford played a lot of young guys on defense and they were't very good. The next year they were near the top of the league.

Just look at Desert Swarm. Those guys were starting as Frenshmen too and they weren't very good.

Time will tell... but that doesn't mean that every freshman who starts and is not very good automatically turns into a world-beater.

[threenumberones]

You old timers will like this one - pretty solid endorsement. This is an email from Eddie Wilson (UA QB from '59 to '61). My dad got it and passed it on to me.

Hi Brent:

Saw this at the bottom of the TV screen Sun. eve. I am sincerely excited over his hiring at the U of A!!!! In the coaching community, Kevin Sumlin is known as a humble, high character, straight shooter and a very solid football coach. He has known success everywhere he has been--as an assistant and as a head coach. He is not a flash in the pan. Kevin will recruit the state of Arizona (Yeah!!!), bring discipline to the program, and will do what is necessary from the football programs standpoint to graduate his players. In short, he and his staff, and eventually his players, will reflect the values of the U of A such as was instituted under the coaching leadership of Jim LaRue, Jim Young, and Dick Tomey.

Oh, by the way, he also said we will win championships. That is easy to say, harder to do---so, we shall see. But I am confident he can do it! I am excited for our school!!!

Kevin is also bringing his Offensive Coordinator Noel Mazzonee (spelling) with him. I coached against Noel when he was at NC State and I was at Georgia Tech. He was responsible for the development of Phillip Rivers (Chargers). I recruited Rivers in Athens, Alabama until it was decided by our staff he did not run the option well enough to their liking--so, the rest is history!! Mazzonee is a solid coach--was at ASU (Dennis Erickson) and UCLA (Brett Hundley) before joining Sumlin at Texas A&M. Noel will be a valuable asset to the U of A.

ASU is going to rue the day and the manner in which they hired Herm Edwards. ASU held no interviews, simply appointed the AD's friend and former client. The U of A held interviews. Navy's Ken N. was a solid candidate until withdrawing his name on Saturday. Coach N. belongs at Navy. He represents what is good about Academy football, perfect for Annapolis. They couldn't get a better fit. Now, just pay his staff what they have earned!!!!

The U of A is getting a fresh start, a much needed fresh start in the eyes of many former players. Let's hope we come out of this smelling like flowers rather than the alternative. Thanks for the article, Brent.

Sincerely,
Eddie Wilson

[jimson]

Pointing out 3 guys in no way disproves anything I said. I never said that we didn't have those 3 good players. It's the entire talent level of the team and our depth that is abysmal. And that is an inarguable fact at this point.

I suspect you think any opinion you might have is inarguable.

We do have some good young defensive players, and enough tools on offense to be competitive. There are people with more credibility than you that think we have the nucleus to be successful next year.

[Merkin]

I disagree. Our depth and overall talent level is abysmal. And has been for years.

Wrong.

Is the NFL draft a good indication?

Complete whiffs is 2013 and 2015. 2 in 2016, highest being round 6 Will Parks, 3 in 2014 Ka'Deem Carey highest in round 4. Stoops recruit too of course.

[Spaceman Spiff]

Anyone who thinks the overall talent and depth on the current squad is good hasn't watched much college football around the country. I sat 10 rows up at the Rose Bowl this year. Georgia had Safeties who were the size of our Defensive Ends. The state of Defensive line is an absolute embarrassment for a P5 school, actually I've seen Group of 5 schools with superior talent to us on the DL side of the ball. Our WR talent has dropped tremendously from the first season or two of RRod.

It has amazed that RRod/Casteel somehow recruited players that were both small and slow. How does that even happen?

I honestly think Sumlin's heart is going to sink into his stomach when he sees the level of talent at the first spring practice. Yeah we had some True Freshman defensive stand outs. But those guys wouldn't even be getting a sniff of action for an SEC school.

The question isn't whether we can come close to the playoff. Next year's goals are about things like winning seasons and bowl games. We return a lot of a 7-6, 5-4 team. I don't think it's crazy to expect some upwards trajectory.

There's a long way between that and playoff material.

[azgreg]

Right now I'm just looking at a couple of things. Win the games we should win (we'll determine those as the season approaches), improve recruiting, and tighten up fundamentally.

[jimson]

Pointing out 3 guys in no way disproves anything I said. I never said that we didn't have those 3 good players. It's the entire talent level of the team and our depth that is abysmal. And that is an inarguable fact at this point.

I suspect you think any opinion you might have is inarguable.

We do have some good young defensive players, and enough tools on offense to be competitive. There are people with more credibility than you that think we have the nucleus to be successful next year.

Here's some more

"With Tate entering his junior season — and the defense chock-full of promising young players who only should get better — there’s a real sense that Arizona can compete for the Pac-12 South title in 2018."

“There’s no doubt,” said Brady Quinn, who called the Foster Farms Bowl for Fox Sports. “I really like their chances.”

[ASUHATER!]

"Promising young players" sure. There's a couple. But that in no way, shape, or form guarantees success or anything concrete. What is concrete is that we're woefully thin at most positions and most of our players were not seriously recruited by power 5 programs. Thems the facts.

[FlyonWall]

Hey it isn't like we ever got blown out this year. Perhaps some are overestimating how much bigger and faster everyone else is.

[jimson]

Hey it isn't like we ever got blown out this year. Perhaps some are overestimating how much bigger and faster everyone else is.

No, they are just creating the narrative they want that there was never anything that RR did that wasn't horrible and he left the program in complete shambles Mackovician style.

[UAEebs86]

[ASUHATER!]

Hey it isn't like we ever got blown out this year. Perhaps some are overestimating how much bigger and faster everyone else is.

No, they are just creating the narrative they want that there was never anything that RR did that wasn't horrible and he left the program in complete shambles Mackovician style.

No one is creating anything. The only alternate reality people are living in is the world where they can't objectively see that our talent level just isn't up to snuff when compared to any top 30+ program. That's not an opinion, it's not fake, it's not spin, it's just the truth. I feel like I'm talking on the politics board to a bunch of people that refuse to acknowledge basic, simple facts.

[PHXCATS]

Hey it isn't like we ever got blown out this year. Perhaps some are overestimating how much bigger and faster everyone else is.

No, they are just creating the narrative they want that there was never anything that RR did that wasn't horrible and he left the program in complete shambles Mackovician style.

No one is creating anything. The only alternate reality people are living in is the world where they can't objectively see that our talent level just isn't up to snuff when compared to any top 30+ program. That's not an opinion, it's not fake, it's not spin, it's just the truth. I feel like I'm talking on the politics board to a bunch of people that refuse to acknowledge basic, simple facts.

So it should be easy for you then. What games will UA be underdogs in?

I can think of three and only three for sure.

UA will be favored if played today vs
BYU
Houston
Southern Utah
Oregon State
Cal
UCLA
Colorado
asu

Utah toss up

Likely dogs vs Oregon USC and WSU

[PHXCATS]

Not saying this is the best team of all time by any stretch but this team isn't bad and can compete and compete well vs the schedule it has

[Olsondogg]

What a bold statement.

[FlyonWall]

Hey it isn't like we ever got blown out this year. Perhaps some are overestimating how much bigger and faster everyone else is.

No, they are just creating the narrative they want that there was never anything that RR did that wasn't horrible and he left the program in complete shambles Mackovician style.

No one is creating anything. The only alternate reality people are living in is the world where they can't objectively see that our talent level just isn't up to snuff when compared to any top 30+ program. That's not an opinion, it's not fake, it's not spin, it's just the truth. I feel like I'm talking on the politics board to a bunch of people that refuse to acknowledge basic, simple facts.

So if we don't agree with you that the team is terrible, we are living in alternate reality? Black and white world you live in.

[btfd16]

An extremely young team was 5-3 with a healthy Khalil with losses @USC @Oregon and Purdue. We’re going to be better than last year and if we aren’t it’ll be disappointing. No doubt about it.

[ASUHATER!]

Hey it isn't like we ever got blown out this year. Perhaps some are overestimating how much bigger and faster everyone else is.

No, they are just creating the narrative they want that there was never anything that RR did that wasn't horrible and he left the program in complete shambles Mackovician style.

No one is creating anything. The only alternate reality people are living in is the world where they can't objectively see that our talent level just isn't up to snuff when compared to any top 30+ program. That's not an opinion, it's not fake, it's not spin, it's just the truth. I feel like I'm talking on the politics board to a bunch of people that refuse to acknowledge basic, simple facts.

So if we don't agree with you that the team is terrible, we are living in alternate reality? Black and white world you live in.

Whooooooosh over your head

[btfd16]

Hey it isn't like we ever got blown out this year. Perhaps some are overestimating how much bigger and faster everyone else is.

No, they are just creating the narrative they want that there was never anything that RR did that wasn't horrible and he left the program in complete shambles Mackovician style.

No one is creating anything. The only alternate reality people are living in is the world where they can't objectively see that our talent level just isn't up to snuff when compared to any top 30+ program. That's not an opinion, it's not fake, it's not spin, it's just the truth. I feel like I'm talking on the politics board to a bunch of people that refuse to acknowledge basic, simple facts.

So if we don't agree with you that the team is terrible, we are living in alternate reality? Black and white world you live in.

“if you don’t want to date me that’s fine, but you’re wrong and I hate you”

[BBQ wildcat]

Reading all of this crap from ASULOVER is giving me a huge headache.

[BearDown89]

Where the fuck is Cordera?

[BBQ wildcat]

Where the fuck is Cordera?

Shit ! I would rather read his incomprehensible rantings than the crap ASULOVER is spouting

[azgreg]

[chiefzona]

He's better than Manziel.

[CatsbyAZ]

Right now I'm just looking at a couple of things. Win the games we should win (we'll determine those as the season approaches), improve recruiting, and tighten up fundamentally.

My hope as well. Focus on the small but sound steps forward. Shoring up the roster and adding dependable talent and depth to the defense please.

[Scummy Dick Douglas]

He's better than Manziel.

How do you figure?

[Scummy Dick Douglas]

Hey it isn't like we ever got blown out this year. Perhaps some are overestimating how much bigger and faster everyone else is.

No, they are just creating the narrative they want that there was never anything that RR did that wasn't horrible and he left the program in complete shambles Mackovician style.

No one is creating anything. The only alternate reality people are living in is the world where they can't objectively see that our talent level just isn't up to snuff when compared to any top 30+ program. That's not an opinion, it's not fake, it's not spin, it's just the truth. I feel like I'm talking on the politics board to a bunch of people that refuse to acknowledge basic, simple facts.

So it should be easy for you then. What games will UA be underdogs in?

I can think of three and only three for sure.

UA will be favored if played today vs
BYU
Houston
Southern Utah
Oregon State
Cal
UCLA
Colorado
asu

Utah toss up

Likely dogs vs Oregon USC and WSU

Honest question: Why do you think UA would be a favorite over ASU if played today?

[PHXCATS]

Hey it isn't like we ever got blown out this year. Perhaps some are overestimating how much bigger and faster everyone else is.

No, they are just creating the narrative they want that there was never anything that RR did that wasn't horrible and he left the program in complete shambles Mackovician style.

No one is creating anything. The only alternate reality people are living in is the world where they can't objectively see that our talent level just isn't up to snuff when compared to any top 30+ program. That's not an opinion, it's not fake, it's not spin, it's just the truth. I feel like I'm talking on the politics board to a bunch of people that refuse to acknowledge basic, simple facts.

So it should be easy for you then. What games will UA be underdogs in?

I can think of three and only three for sure.

UA will be favored if played today vs
BYU
Houston
Southern Utah
Oregon State
Cal
UCLA
Colorado
asu

Utah toss up

Likely dogs vs Oregon USC and WSU

Honest question: Why do you think UA would be a favorite over ASU if played today?

Multiple reasons

Home game for UA
UA returns more starters
UA was kicking asu all around before Tate got hurt
UA has a huge coaching advantage

[Sid]

Hey it isn't like we ever got blown out this year. Perhaps some are overestimating how much bigger and faster everyone else is.

No, they are just creating the narrative they want that there was never anything that RR did that wasn't horrible and he left the program in complete shambles Mackovician style.

No one is creating anything. The only alternate reality people are living in is the world where they can't objectively see that our talent level just isn't up to snuff when compared to any top 30+ program. That's not an opinion, it's not fake, it's not spin, it's just the truth. I feel like I'm talking on the politics board to a bunch of people that refuse to acknowledge basic, simple facts.

So it should be easy for you then. What games will UA be underdogs in?

I can think of three and only three for sure.

UA will be favored if played today vs
BYU
Houston
Southern Utah
Oregon State
Cal
UCLA
Colorado
asu

Utah toss up

Likely dogs vs Oregon USC and WSU

Honest question: Why do you think UA would be a favorite over ASU if played today?

Defense. The Casteel experiment spoke to the lackluster effort Rich invested on this side of the ball. Rich was forced to hire Yates and I believe we have yet to see what Marcel is really capable of due to constraints. The handcuffs are now off and we will punch the scummies in the fucking throat!

[azgreg]

[jimson]

No, they are just creating the narrative they want that there was never anything that RR did that wasn't horrible and he left the program in complete shambles Mackovician style.

No one is creating anything. The only alternate reality people are living in is the world where they can't objectively see that our talent level just isn't up to snuff when compared to any top 30+ program. That's not an opinion, it's not fake, it's not spin, it's just the truth. I feel like I'm talking on the politics board to a bunch of people that refuse to acknowledge basic, simple facts.

Whatever metric you are using is subjective. If you are only looking at recruiting rankings, that doesn't take into account the emergence of guys like Schooler and Wilborn. Another off season in the weightroom, continuity in the defensive scheme, and it's not a stretch to see us being pretty good, especially if you guys are right about Sumlin being a far superior coach. He has Tate and a spread system already in place. Not like he's starting from scratch.

[Spaceman Spiff]

Hey it isn't like we ever got blown out this year. Perhaps some are overestimating how much bigger and faster everyone else is.

No, they are just creating the narrative they want that there was never anything that RR did that wasn't horrible and he left the program in complete shambles Mackovician style.

No one is creating anything. The only alternate reality people are living in is the world where they can't objectively see that our talent level just isn't up to snuff when compared to any top 30+ program. That's not an opinion, it's not fake, it's not spin, it's just the truth. I feel like I'm talking on the politics board to a bunch of people that refuse to acknowledge basic, simple facts.

The issue for me is you present this as the truth, claim it is, give no support for it and walk.

Alternate points like some unheralded recruits producing on the field and the objective marker of winning games just get brushed off. It backs into a situation where RichRod was either an incredible game coach or you're underestimating things.

I mean, you say we're not close to top 30 talent, but RR had us ranked #23 at one point. Then you say Sumlin is better than RR. It jsut doesn't compute.

[RondaeShimmy]

Hey it isn't like we ever got blown out this year. Perhaps some are overestimating how much bigger and faster everyone else is.

No, they are just creating the narrative they want that there was never anything that RR did that wasn't horrible and he left the program in complete shambles Mackovician style.

No one is creating anything. The only alternate reality people are living in is the world where they can't objectively see that our talent level just isn't up to snuff when compared to any top 30+ program. That's not an opinion, it's not fake, it's not spin, it's just the truth. I feel like I'm talking on the politics board to a bunch of people that refuse to acknowledge basic, simple facts.

The issue for me is you present this as the truth, claim it is, give no support for it and walk.

Alternate points like some unheralded recruits producing on the field and the objective marker of winning games just get brushed off. It backs into a situation where RichRod was either an incredible game coach or you're underestimating things.

I mean, you say we're not close to top 30 talent, but RR had us ranked #23 at one point. Then you say Sumlin is better than RR. It jsut doesn't compute.

You think being ranked #23 by the media means Arizona has top 30 talent?

To me being ranked in the AP means Arizona didn't lose and other teams did.

[Spaceman Spiff]

No, they are just creating the narrative they want that there was never anything that RR did that wasn't horrible and he left the program in complete shambles Mackovician style.

No one is creating anything. The only alternate reality people are living in is the world where they can't objectively see that our talent level just isn't up to snuff when compared to any top 30+ program. That's not an opinion, it's not fake, it's not spin, it's just the truth. I feel like I'm talking on the politics board to a bunch of people that refuse to acknowledge basic, simple facts.

The issue for me is you present this as the truth, claim it is, give no support for it and walk.

Alternate points like some unheralded recruits producing on the field and the objective marker of winning games just get brushed off. It backs into a situation where RichRod was either an incredible game coach or you're underestimating things.

I mean, you say we're not close to top 30 talent, but RR had us ranked #23 at one point. Then you say Sumlin is better than RR. It jsut doesn't compute.

You think being ranked #23 by the media means Arizona has top 30 talent?

To me being ranked in the AP means Arizona didn't lose and other teams did.

Oy. No, I'm saying if we won enough to be ranked in the top 25 with the desultory talent Hater thinks we had, RichRod must have been coaching the hell out of that desultory talent.

Either Sumlin is better than RR and we can expect even more or he gets less. The bottom line is that we, objectively, had enough talent to win like a top 25 team at a point last year. The potential exists, and either RR wasn't as bad a coach as Hater labels him or it's reasonable to expect something siimilar from Sumlin. Or both.