Bear Down Wildcats

The apathy is off the charts. Huge cat fan at work never even mentioned the football game against our rival. Like it didn’t exist. Not many to upset at the loss. Upset Sumlin is coming back. Really bad times for our football program coupled with epic weak leadership

It's also a very different world than 2002-2006. There's so much media to consume that overall apathy towards sports has increased drastically. There's so many other things to watch and do and distract yourself with than 15 years ago.

azcat49 wrote:The apathy is off the charts. Huge cat fan at work never even mentioned the football game against our rival. Like it didn’t exist. Not many to upset at the loss. Upset Sumlin is coming back. Really bad times for our football program coupled with epic weak leadership

even assu fans i know didn't bother to bring it up and shove our noses in it. that's how bad we are right now.

and yes, as you mention, nobody I know was talking about the game as a cat fan either. complete irrelevancy.

My father and I chat constantly during basketball games but not a single word during the football game not even an email note afterwards. Don't think that is going to be atypical any more.

My best friend from college and I were talking the other night. After literally 30 seconds talking about football ineptitude we moved on to how limp-dicked Heeke is. 90 seconds later it was all basketball.

Yep and when your inept AD has been let it known publicly that he wants to move on from Sumlin, but can't afford to, it makes it so if a rebuild were actually possible it no longer is. So who cares? Football isn't even good enough to be a waste of time until basketball season any more.

ChooChooCat wrote:Yep and when your inept AD has been let it known publicly that he wants to move on from Sumlin, but can't afford to, it makes it so if a rebuild were actually possible it no longer is. So who cares? Football isn't even good enough to be a waste of time until basketball season any more.

We are a M/W Basketball—W Soccer—Softball school now.

azcat49 wrote:The apathy is off the charts. Huge cat fan at work never even mentioned the football game against our rival. Like it didn’t exist. Not many to upset at the loss. Upset Sumlin is coming back. Really bad times for our football program coupled with epic weak leadership

Both this year and next feel like a dying marriage where the couple is staying together until the last kid leaves and then planning to divorce.

If fans showed up, there would be a lot more money to move on from Sumlin now. This is on all the fans who don't show up.

PHXCATS wrote:If fans showed up, there would be a lot more money to move on from Sumlin now. This is on all the fans who don't show up.

Stop.

It's like saying if a lot of people went to see a terrible movie, the studio would have the money to make a better one. It's a pie in the sky idea that ignores people have entertainment choices, and the factory of disappointment in Arizona Stadium doesn't make Arizona football a good choice.

PHXCATS wrote:If fans showed up, there would be a lot more money to move on from Sumlin now. This is on all the fans who don't show up.

If the fans show up no matter how bad the program, what incentive is there to get rid of Sumlin?

Spaceman Spiff wrote:

PHXCATS wrote:If fans showed up, there would be a lot more money to move on from Sumlin now. This is on all the fans who don't show up.

Stop.

It's like saying if a lot of people went to see a terrible movie, the studio would have the money to make a better one. It's a pie in the sky idea that ignores people have entertainment choices, and the factory of disappointment in Arizona Stadium doesn't make Arizona football a good choice.

It is dollar and cents. Arizona cannot afford to buy out Sumlin right now. What would give Arizona more money is more fans buying seats and donating to the department.

People can do what they want with their time and money, more power to them, but that choice comes with consequences and one is not being able to afford buying out Kevin Sumlin

PHXCATS wrote:If fans showed up, there would be a lot more money to move on from Sumlin now. This is on all the fans who don't show up.

This is just backwards. Let me ask you a hypothetical.

Let's say there a restaurant you like. Over time the quality of food they put out gets to the point of being inedible. Now, do you keep going back thinking that if you just support them enough they will see your enthusiasm and start putting out good food again?

azgreg wrote:

PHXCATS wrote:If fans showed up, there would be a lot more money to move on from Sumlin now. This is on all the fans who don't show up.

This is just backwards. Let me ask you a hypothetical.

Let's say there a restaurant you like. Over time the quality of food they put out gets to the point of being inedible. Now, do you keep going back thinking that if you just support them enough they will see your enthusiasm and start putting out good food again?

Let’s extend the metaphor:

You keep showing for the sake of loyalty while thinking: if I just keep showing up they’ll have enough money to hire a new chef. Except the owner thinks, why should I lay the current chef off and pay a 2 month severance package and then pay a new chef more money when the seats are all filled anyway?

azgreg wrote:

PHXCATS wrote:If fans showed up, there would be a lot more money to move on from Sumlin now. This is on all the fans who don't show up.

This is just backwards. Let me ask you a hypothetical.

Let's say there a restaurant you like. Over time the quality of food they put out gets to the point of being inedible. Now, do you keep going back thinking that if you just support them enough they will see your enthusiasm and start putting out good food again?

Okay, so I want my favorite restaurant to stay in business, but want it run by new management. I want a better menu since the current one is getting old. If I don't eat there anymore along with others, the restaurant will close. I just want to see a better dessert tray and compete with that eatery (which I hate) across the street. What do I do now, not go and wait and see...

...I'm confused!

There’s a lot of talk that Heeke found the money to buy out Sumlin. He just chickened out.

In which case Machina’s argument is worthless and just another opportunity for him to fail at dunking on people who are actual fans and want Arizona Football to be consistently good.

Since we are only getting 30,000 to attend the games, what a better time to tear down the west-side stadium and redo it SEC style over the nest two years. BUT while doing it, let's get the newest upcoming coach to take over NOW. Charge any buyout of Slumlin to the cost of the new stadium upgrades. So it goes from $150M to $160M, who cares. The sooner the better and we will compete sooner.

...Just saying - Don't wait - Invest now...

If we all showed up we would be........South Carolina.

PHXCATS wrote:

Spaceman Spiff wrote:

PHXCATS wrote:If fans showed up, there would be a lot more money to move on from Sumlin now. This is on all the fans who don't show up.

Stop.

It's like saying if a lot of people went to see a terrible movie, the studio would have the money to make a better one. It's a pie in the sky idea that ignores people have entertainment choices, and the factory of disappointment in Arizona Stadium doesn't make Arizona football a good choice.

It is dollar and cents. Arizona cannot afford to buy out Sumlin right now. What would give Arizona more money is more fans buying seats and donating to the department.

People can do what they want with their time and money, more power to them, but that choice comes with consequences and one is not being able to afford buying out Kevin Sumlin

There is literally no entertainment venue where consistently producing terrible entertainment leads to increased revenue.

It's just delusional to expect otherwise. Better play leads to more fans. Worse play leads to fewer fans. Why does LSU draw more fans than Rutgers?

Spaceman Spiff wrote:
There is literally no entertainment venue where consistently producing terrible entertainment leads to increased revenue.

Comic book and Star Wars movies?

Merkin wrote:

Spaceman Spiff wrote:
There is literally no entertainment venue where consistently producing terrible entertainment leads to increased revenue.

Comic book and Star Wars movies?

Ok there, Martin Scorsese. I'm sorry they're not all period pieces about exploring womanhood in Elizabethan England.

I don't watch those either!

But what does Scheer know?

azgreg wrote:

PHXCATS wrote:If fans showed up, there would be a lot more money to move on from Sumlin now. This is on all the fans who don't show up.

This is just backwards. Let me ask you a hypothetical.

Let's say there a restaurant you like. Over time the quality of food they put out gets to the point of being inedible. Now, do you keep going back thinking that if you just support them enough they will see your enthusiasm and start putting out good food again?

I’m pretty sure this is black bear diner’s business model

azcat49 wrote:If we all showed up we would be........South Carolina.

Who gets big name coaches, interesting

CalStateTempe wrote:

azgreg wrote:

PHXCATS wrote:If fans showed up, there would be a lot more money to move on from Sumlin now. This is on all the fans who don't show up.

This is just backwards. Let me ask you a hypothetical.

Let's say there a restaurant you like. Over time the quality of food they put out gets to the point of being inedible. Now, do you keep going back thinking that if you just support them enough they will see your enthusiasm and start putting out good food again?

I’m pretty sure this is black bear diner’s business model

Wait, what? BBD has the best breakfast going! I hate chains, but will go there for breakfast. Lunches are just OK.

azgreg wrote:

PHXCATS wrote:If fans showed up, there would be a lot more money to move on from Sumlin now. This is on all the fans who don't show up.

This is just backwards. Let me ask you a hypothetical.

Let's say there a restaurant you like. Over time the quality of food they put out gets to the point of being inedible. Now, do you keep going back thinking that if you just support them enough they will see your enthusiasm and start putting out good food again?

This is such a bad example but no I would not go back after time. But a restaurant and your school's athletic department are completely different things.

If you dont want to go to the games that is fine, you are not a bad person. Just realize that the school has less resources and accept that

PHXCATS wrote:

azcat49 wrote:If we all showed up we would be........South Carolina.

Who gets big name coaches, interesting

That have done what exactly? Win a whole 3 more games than Arizona in the last 5 years. Cool!

PHXCATS wrote:

azgreg wrote:

PHXCATS wrote:If fans showed up, there would be a lot more money to move on from Sumlin now. This is on all the fans who don't show up.

This is just backwards. Let me ask you a hypothetical.

Let's say there a restaurant you like. Over time the quality of food they put out gets to the point of being inedible. Now, do you keep going back thinking that if you just support them enough they will see your enthusiasm and start putting out good food again?

This is such a bad example but no I would not go back after time. But a restaurant and your school's athletic department are completely different things.

If you dont want to go to the games that is fine, you are not a bad person. Just realize that the school has less resources and accept that

It's a relationship with two sides. Arizona would have more resources if they didn't hire guys like Sumlin and give them astronomical buyouts.

Giving $ to the school tends to stop when the school blows that $. Sumlin was not a good use of money.

Spaceman Spiff wrote:

PHXCATS wrote:

azgreg wrote:

PHXCATS wrote:If fans showed up, there would be a lot more money to move on from Sumlin now. This is on all the fans who don't show up.

This is just backwards. Let me ask you a hypothetical.

Let's say there a restaurant you like. Over time the quality of food they put out gets to the point of being inedible. Now, do you keep going back thinking that if you just support them enough they will see your enthusiasm and start putting out good food again?

This is such a bad example but no I would not go back after time. But a restaurant and your school's athletic department are completely different things.

If you dont want to go to the games that is fine, you are not a bad person. Just realize that the school has less resources and accept that

It's a relationship with two sides. Arizona would have more resources if they didn't hire guys like Sumlin and give them astronomical buyouts.

Giving $ to the school tends to stop when the school blows that $. Sumlin was not a good use of money.

Almost everyone wanted Sumlin at the time. It did not work out. No one knew this would be the case at the time

Merkin wrote:

CalStateTempe wrote:

azgreg wrote:

PHXCATS wrote:If fans showed up, there would be a lot more money to move on from Sumlin now. This is on all the fans who don't show up.

This is just backwards. Let me ask you a hypothetical.

Let's say there a restaurant you like. Over time the quality of food they put out gets to the point of being inedible. Now, do you keep going back thinking that if you just support them enough they will see your enthusiasm and start putting out good food again?

I’m pretty sure this is black bear diner’s business model

Wait, what? BBD has the best breakfast going! I hate chains, but will go there for breakfast. Lunches are just OK.

in Tucson there's probably a dozen better breakfast places I can think of off the top of my head and Black Bear diner is a MAGA Haven anyway

ASUHATER! wrote:

Merkin wrote:

CalStateTempe wrote:

azgreg wrote:

PHXCATS wrote:If fans showed up, there would be a lot more money to move on from Sumlin now. This is on all the fans who don't show up.

This is just backwards. Let me ask you a hypothetical.

Let's say there a restaurant you like. Over time the quality of food they put out gets to the point of being inedible. Now, do you keep going back thinking that if you just support them enough they will see your enthusiasm and start putting out good food again?

I’m pretty sure this is black bear diner’s business model

Wait, what? BBD has the best breakfast going! I hate chains, but will go there for breakfast. Lunches are just OK.

in Tucson there's probably a dozen better breakfast places I can think of off the top of my head and Black Bear diner is a MAGA Haven anyway

I love me some Tucson Jethro's! Just don't ask for any salsa for your home fries, they charge a bundle for 10 cents worth.

No MAGAt crowd at all where I live. Don't think I have ever seen a Trump hat on anyone's head ever.

I imagine Jethro's is a MAGA crowd, they have a "Hippies use rear entrance" sign.

PHXCATS wrote:

Spaceman Spiff wrote:

PHXCATS wrote:

azgreg wrote:

PHXCATS wrote:If fans showed up, there would be a lot more money to move on from Sumlin now. This is on all the fans who don't show up.

This is just backwards. Let me ask you a hypothetical.

Let's say there a restaurant you like. Over time the quality of food they put out gets to the point of being inedible. Now, do you keep going back thinking that if you just support them enough they will see your enthusiasm and start putting out good food again?

This is such a bad example but no I would not go back after time. But a restaurant and your school's athletic department are completely different things.

If you dont want to go to the games that is fine, you are not a bad person. Just realize that the school has less resources and accept that

It's a relationship with two sides. Arizona would have more resources if they didn't hire guys like Sumlin and give them astronomical buyouts.

Giving $ to the school tends to stop when the school blows that $. Sumlin was not a good use of money.

Almost everyone wanted Sumlin at the time. It did not work out. No one knew this would be the case at the time

Leaving aside my disagreement with what people thought, it boggles my mind how you seem to not grasp the basic issue.

Arizona just spent a lot of money on a coach that appears to be failing hard. Yet you argue fans are at least partially responsible for throwing more money in to allow an administration that is currently paying two football coaches who produce(d) this issue to drop a lot of money on a third.

When you eff up a hire, people don't want to throw money your way to potentially eff up again. When you eff up a hire and games aren't much fun to watch, people stop watching.

None of this is complicated. If you want to bankroll the AD more for failing, go for it, just save the sanctimony about how fans should throw money at the AD when it's been used poorly for a depressing product.

Please explain to me how Arizona can get a good coach when all of the following are going on

No money
Bad fans
Little tradition
Hardly any NFL success
Bad recruiting
Poor facilities

PHXCATS wrote:Please explain to me how Arizona can get a good coach when all of the following are going on

No money
Bad fans
Little tradition
Hardly any NFL success
Bad recruiting
Poor facilities

Mike Price at Wazzu (2 Rose Bowl appearances, 5 QBs into the NFL) scoffs at your lack of knowledge of PAC history.

Larry Smith bailed to USC, and Dick Tomey got lazy, but you can have success at Arizona.

As with Price, Smith and Tomey, get a young hungry successful head coach from a smaller school.

Spaceman Spiff wrote:

PHXCATS wrote:

Spaceman Spiff wrote:It's a relationship with two sides. Arizona would have more resources if they didn't hire guys like Sumlin and give them astronomical buyouts.

Giving $ to the school tends to stop when the school blows that $. Sumlin was not a good use of money.

Almost everyone wanted Sumlin at the time. It did not work out. No one knew this would be the case at the time

Leaving aside my disagreement with what people thought, it boggles my mind how you seem to not grasp the basic issue.

Arizona just spent a lot of money on a coach that appears to be failing hard. Yet you argue fans are at least partially responsible for throwing more money in to allow an administration that is currently paying two football coaches who produce(d) this issue to drop a lot of money on a third.

When you eff up a hire, people don't want to throw money your way to potentially eff up again. When you eff up a hire and games aren't much fun to watch, people stop watching.

None of this is complicated. If you want to bankroll the AD more for failing, go for it, just save the sanctimony about how fans should throw money at the AD when it's been used poorly for a depressing product.

Sure, you can use logic ..... but how’s he going to be the guy wagging his finger at all the bad fans if he uses common sense? Where’s the joy?

PHXCATS wrote:Please explain to me how Arizona can get a good coach when all of the following are going on

No money
Bad fans
Little tradition
Hardly any NFL success
Bad recruiting
Poor facilities

By hiring a good coach.

PHXCATS wrote:Please explain to me how Arizona can get a good coach when all of the following are going on

No money
Bad fans
Little tradition
Hardly any NFL success
Bad recruiting
Poor facilities

Would you say we have bad basketball fans? Baseball fans? Soccer fans? Softball fans? Women’s b-ball fans now? I think the answer would be no.

What to those programs have in common? Winning and a track record of excellence or a belief they will be good. You just can’t say that about Sumlin. You could about Stoops and the belief he would make us Okie light and we turned out at 50k plus a year.

This is not the fans fault, come on

Thoughts and Prayers for Machina.

I regret to inform everyone that Machina is indeed brain dead.

Merkin wrote:I don't watch those either!

But what does Scheer know?

Alieberman wrote:Thoughts and Prayers for Machina.

I regret to inform everyone that Machina is indeed brain dead.

Yes, but...

... what difference will that make??

azcat49 wrote:

PHXCATS wrote:Please explain to me how Arizona can get a good coach when all of the following are going on

No money
Bad fans
Little tradition
Hardly any NFL success
Bad recruiting
Poor facilities

Would you say we have bad basketball fans? Baseball fans? Soccer fans? Softball fans? Women’s b-ball fans now? I think the answer would be no.

What to those programs have in common? Winning and a track record of excellence or a belief they will be good. You just can’t say that about Sumlin. You could about Stoops and the belief he would make us Okie light and we turned out at 50k plus a year.

This is not the fans fault, come on

Or compare us to Washington State. We are superior in most of the areas he listed, but they're blowing the doors off us lately.

Why? They hired Leach and we hired RichRod/Sumlin.

God I wanted leach so bad, if we had old boosters that had problems with locking trust fund kids in sheds....

UA just needed to put Leach on a short leash, 0 tolerance.

Spaceman Spiff wrote:

azcat49 wrote:

PHXCATS wrote:Please explain to me how Arizona can get a good coach when all of the following are going on

No money
Bad fans
Little tradition
Hardly any NFL success
Bad recruiting
Poor facilities

Would you say we have bad basketball fans? Baseball fans? Soccer fans? Softball fans? Women’s b-ball fans now? I think the answer would be no.

What to those programs have in common? Winning and a track record of excellence or a belief they will be good. You just can’t say that about Sumlin. You could about Stoops and the belief he would make us Okie light and we turned out at 50k plus a year.

This is not the fans fault, come on

Or compare us to Washington State. We are superior in most of the areas he listed, but they're blowing the doors off us lately.

Why? They hired Leach and we hired RichRod/Sumlin.

Not just lately. Mike Price went to 2 Rose Bowls and put 5 QBs into the league during the Pac-10 era when Arizona went oh-fer.

https://www.si.com/college/arizona/foot ... two-words/" target="_blank

Best article and comments I have seen on our state of the program. He nailed it IMO

azcat49 wrote:https://www.si.com/college/arizona/foot ... two-words/

Best article and comments I have seen on our state of the program. He nailed it IMO

All kinds of head scratching coaching decisions all season long. It's truly like Sumlin wants to lose so he can collect another $10m check

azcat49 wrote:

PHXCATS wrote:Please explain to me how Arizona can get a good coach when all of the following are going on

No money
Bad fans
Little tradition
Hardly any NFL success
Bad recruiting
Poor facilities

Would you say we have bad basketball fans? Baseball fans? Soccer fans? Softball fans? Women’s b-ball fans now? I think the answer would be no.

What to those programs have in common? Winning and a track record of excellence or a belief they will be good. You just can’t say that about Sumlin. You could about Stoops and the belief he would make us Okie light and we turned out at 50k plus a year.

This is not the fans fault, come on

Basketball attendance has been very poor this year.

We have fair weather fans in all sports

Spaceman Spiff wrote:

PHXCATS wrote:Please explain to me how Arizona can get a good coach when all of the following are going on

No money
Bad fans
Little tradition
Hardly any NFL success
Bad recruiting
Poor facilities

By hiring a good coach.

You act like it is easy to do cheap and that UA is the only school with that plan.

The more money you have from fans the more you can offer a coach and his staff the more likely they are to accept especially when you have no tradition and poor facilities

Machina contributes nothing of value to this board. He just is a broken record repeating the same 2 lines over and over. It is ridiculous.

PHXCATS wrote:
We have fair weather fans in all sports

Fair weather fans? Do you even know what a fair weather fan is? Basketball team is undefeated.

Here:

fair-weather fan

A person who is supportive of and enthusiastic about a sports team only when that team is performing well.

We have fair weather fans in all sports. That's why we've led the conference in basketball attendance for like 34 years in a row.