Re: New Coach Hot Board
Posted: Wed Dec 16, 2020 7:42 am
I can live with that.ChooChooCat wrote: ↑Tue Dec 15, 2020 10:33 pm At this point it looks like Brennan or Niumatalolo and it probably doesn’t go further than there.
A co-op community for Arizona Fans
http://beardownwildcats.com/
I can live with that.ChooChooCat wrote: ↑Tue Dec 15, 2020 10:33 pm At this point it looks like Brennan or Niumatalolo and it probably doesn’t go further than there.
I'm ok with that. I liked Niumatalolo back when Sumlin was hired and, although this is a down year for them, he had 11 wins in 2019.ChooChooCat wrote: ↑Tue Dec 15, 2020 10:33 pm At this point it looks like Brennan or Niumatalolo and it probably doesn’t go further than there.
The recruiting thing is one reason I like Niumatalolo. Arizona is a tough recruiting job where you can't rely on your backyard to get talent and you don't have a ton of resources.DrWildcat wrote: ↑Wed Dec 16, 2020 8:05 am If it is between Ken N and Brennan then I would prefer Brennan personally. Ken N has just been around so long that it is a little concerning that he hasn't moved on from Navy before. I also question how much recruiting he actually does. What does recruiting to a military academy actually look like? I'm sure it is hard but just because you're limited on the guys that want to go to an academy. I was under the assumption that the players are at least interested in the military above being interested in college football. Could be wrong on that, but why go to a military academy to play football if you have no interest in the military? Yes, I think he would be a good leader but is that enough? Also, and probably the biggest factor, he would require a higher salary as he already makes north of $2 million a year and a higher buyout if he fails at UA. This also likely equals less money for assistants.
I get there is risk with Brennan and the lack of HC record but he is on an upward trajectory, just won COY in the mountain west which is a pretty good G5 conference and would likely be cheaper. I'm thinking we could get him around $1.8-$2 million which would hopefully leave more room for the assistant coaching pool which is a big deal.
Could be completely wrong and I sure have been before but just my thoughts.
My point about recruiting is that I'm not even sure that Ken N has to recruit against the teams in his own conference. Basically, there is a specific type of recruit that is going to Navy and he just has to find out who they are. That's not the case at Arizona. Sure we are not getting high profile football recruits but we still have to compete against those higher profile teams in our conference. Maybe I'm wrong on this and Ken N is out there having to sell the football team and military service but I'm just not so sure.Spaceman Spiff wrote: ↑Wed Dec 16, 2020 8:21 amThe recruiting thing is one reason I like Niumatalolo. Arizona is a tough recruiting job where you can't rely on your backyard to get talent and you don't have a ton of resources.DrWildcat wrote: ↑Wed Dec 16, 2020 8:05 am If it is between Ken N and Brennan then I would prefer Brennan personally. Ken N has just been around so long that it is a little concerning that he hasn't moved on from Navy before. I also question how much recruiting he actually does. What does recruiting to a military academy actually look like? I'm sure it is hard but just because you're limited on the guys that want to go to an academy. I was under the assumption that the players are at least interested in the military above being interested in college football. Could be wrong on that, but why go to a military academy to play football if you have no interest in the military? Yes, I think he would be a good leader but is that enough? Also, and probably the biggest factor, he would require a higher salary as he already makes north of $2 million a year and a higher buyout if he fails at UA. This also likely equals less money for assistants.
I get there is risk with Brennan and the lack of HC record but he is on an upward trajectory, just won COY in the mountain west which is a pretty good G5 conference and would likely be cheaper. I'm thinking we could get him around $1.8-$2 million which would hopefully leave more room for the assistant coaching pool which is a big deal.
Could be completely wrong and I sure have been before but just my thoughts.
Navy requires you to recruit nationally and limits your pool to kids who realize their future isn't football and are willing to commit to service. Niumatalolo would be one of the few coaches where Arizona is really an expansion of his recruiting talent pool.
It's one reason I forgive his record being a little up and down at Navy. It's much harder to keep a consistent talent pipeline at a place like Navy.
Brennan's a better money deal, but Niumatalolo is more proven. I can see the upside in both.
This is an interesting angle.DrWildcat wrote: ↑Wed Dec 16, 2020 8:05 amI also question how much recruiting he actually does. What does recruiting to a military academy actually look like? I'm sure it is hard but just because you're limited on the guys that want to go to an academy. I was under the assumption that the players are at least interested in the military above being interested in college football. Could be wrong on that, but why go to a military academy to play football if you have no interest in the military?
That's not really what I've heard. It's more like a coach has to sell recruits on both football and Navy service.DrWildcat wrote: ↑Wed Dec 16, 2020 8:45 amMy point about recruiting is that I'm not even sure that Ken N has to recruit against the teams in his own conference. Basically, there is a specific type of recruit that is going to Navy and he just has to find out who they are. That's not the case at Arizona. Sure we are not getting high profile football recruits but we still have to compete against those higher profile teams in our conference. Maybe I'm wrong on this and Ken N is out there having to sell the football team and military service but I'm just not so sure.Spaceman Spiff wrote: ↑Wed Dec 16, 2020 8:21 amThe recruiting thing is one reason I like Niumatalolo. Arizona is a tough recruiting job where you can't rely on your backyard to get talent and you don't have a ton of resources.DrWildcat wrote: ↑Wed Dec 16, 2020 8:05 am If it is between Ken N and Brennan then I would prefer Brennan personally. Ken N has just been around so long that it is a little concerning that he hasn't moved on from Navy before. I also question how much recruiting he actually does. What does recruiting to a military academy actually look like? I'm sure it is hard but just because you're limited on the guys that want to go to an academy. I was under the assumption that the players are at least interested in the military above being interested in college football. Could be wrong on that, but why go to a military academy to play football if you have no interest in the military? Yes, I think he would be a good leader but is that enough? Also, and probably the biggest factor, he would require a higher salary as he already makes north of $2 million a year and a higher buyout if he fails at UA. This also likely equals less money for assistants.
I get there is risk with Brennan and the lack of HC record but he is on an upward trajectory, just won COY in the mountain west which is a pretty good G5 conference and would likely be cheaper. I'm thinking we could get him around $1.8-$2 million which would hopefully leave more room for the assistant coaching pool which is a big deal.
Could be completely wrong and I sure have been before but just my thoughts.
Navy requires you to recruit nationally and limits your pool to kids who realize their future isn't football and are willing to commit to service. Niumatalolo would be one of the few coaches where Arizona is really an expansion of his recruiting talent pool.
It's one reason I forgive his record being a little up and down at Navy. It's much harder to keep a consistent talent pipeline at a place like Navy.
Brennan's a better money deal, but Niumatalolo is more proven. I can see the upside in both.
Not that I wouldn't be fine with Niumatalolo, I just don't think its such a sure thing (if there is such a thing) and he will cost more.
12/16 Update: We continue to move Steve Sarkisian down on the board. Weber State head coach Jay Hill has been removed because there's just not a lot of chatter there. Former Atlanta Falcons head coach Dan Quinn makes his first appearance on the Hot Board and Ken Niumatalolo has now moved to second.
12/16 Update: Brennan will very likely interview with Arizona after the Mountain West title game and as soon as this upcoming Sunday.
12/16 Update: There's a lot of smoke with Niumatalolo right now to the point where it may be a two horse race between him and Brennan. The alumni have made it clear he would have the support he felt he did not have the first time and the timing to leave Navy is right. We expect him to get an interview if he has not gotten one already
12/16 Update: Salave'a remains a candidate because of his background, but there are two candidates at least that are clearly ahead of him. We still believe the more likely scenario is he becomes defensive coordinator.
I like Hill, but the success rate for a guy jumping from FCS to FBS (especially P5) is extremely extremely low.
Very good questions and I don’t have the answers for 1,3, and 4, but he’s not married to the triple option whatsoever. He’s not married to any offensive or defensive system. He’d hire a very good OC with a normal offense if he gets the job.Chicat wrote: ↑Wed Dec 16, 2020 9:31 am For many of the same reasons I was less than enthused about Niumatalolo three years ago, I'm less inclined to be excited about him now.
- Can he really recruit against the likes of ASU, UCLA, Utah, and Colorado?
- Will he be married to the Triple Option and can that system be successful in the Pac-12?
- Can he excite the fans enough to put butts in the seats when we start to allow crowds at games again?
- Will he inspire the football alumni to the point where they will want to be a part of the program and visible to the fanbase?
If the answers to these questions don't add up to what we want to see out of the next regime, go with Brennan. Yeah, he may be more of an unknown quantity, but he would seem to answer questions about recruiting and buy-in better than Niumatalolo.
Also when it comes to the service academies, so much is dependent on how good their QB is. Truly is the difference between 3 wins and 11.Spaceman Spiff wrote: ↑Wed Dec 16, 2020 9:00 amThat's not really what I've heard. It's more like a coach has to sell recruits on both football and Navy service.DrWildcat wrote: ↑Wed Dec 16, 2020 8:45 amMy point about recruiting is that I'm not even sure that Ken N has to recruit against the teams in his own conference. Basically, there is a specific type of recruit that is going to Navy and he just has to find out who they are. That's not the case at Arizona. Sure we are not getting high profile football recruits but we still have to compete against those higher profile teams in our conference. Maybe I'm wrong on this and Ken N is out there having to sell the football team and military service but I'm just not so sure.Spaceman Spiff wrote: ↑Wed Dec 16, 2020 8:21 amThe recruiting thing is one reason I like Niumatalolo. Arizona is a tough recruiting job where you can't rely on your backyard to get talent and you don't have a ton of resources.DrWildcat wrote: ↑Wed Dec 16, 2020 8:05 am If it is between Ken N and Brennan then I would prefer Brennan personally. Ken N has just been around so long that it is a little concerning that he hasn't moved on from Navy before. I also question how much recruiting he actually does. What does recruiting to a military academy actually look like? I'm sure it is hard but just because you're limited on the guys that want to go to an academy. I was under the assumption that the players are at least interested in the military above being interested in college football. Could be wrong on that, but why go to a military academy to play football if you have no interest in the military? Yes, I think he would be a good leader but is that enough? Also, and probably the biggest factor, he would require a higher salary as he already makes north of $2 million a year and a higher buyout if he fails at UA. This also likely equals less money for assistants.
I get there is risk with Brennan and the lack of HC record but he is on an upward trajectory, just won COY in the mountain west which is a pretty good G5 conference and would likely be cheaper. I'm thinking we could get him around $1.8-$2 million which would hopefully leave more room for the assistant coaching pool which is a big deal.
Could be completely wrong and I sure have been before but just my thoughts.
Navy requires you to recruit nationally and limits your pool to kids who realize their future isn't football and are willing to commit to service. Niumatalolo would be one of the few coaches where Arizona is really an expansion of his recruiting talent pool.
It's one reason I forgive his record being a little up and down at Navy. It's much harder to keep a consistent talent pipeline at a place like Navy.
Brennan's a better money deal, but Niumatalolo is more proven. I can see the upside in both.
Not that I wouldn't be fine with Niumatalolo, I just don't think its such a sure thing (if there is such a thing) and he will cost more.
Navy (the college) isn't just general enlistment, it's officer training, so the applicant pool is already fairly selective.
There will be some people who want to be Naval officers and have football talent, but there are fewer than 5,000 cadets in total. If a coach just relies on whoever wants to come out, that's a tiny population.
Sort of point being, if you can't identify guys who can do it and convince them, you'll have some trouble.
No disrespect, but I think the focus on sex appeal and exciting people is where our previous hiring has lacked.Chicat wrote: ↑Wed Dec 16, 2020 9:31 am For many of the same reasons I was less than enthused about Niumatalolo three years ago, I'm less inclined to be excited about him now.
- Can he really recruit against the likes of ASU, UCLA, Utah, and Colorado?
- Will he be married to the Triple Option and can that system be successful in the Pac-12?
- Can he excite the fans enough to put butts in the seats when we start to allow crowds at games again?
- Will he inspire the football alumni to the point where they will want to be a part of the program and visible to the fanbase?
If the answers to these questions don't add up to what we want to see out of the next regime, go with Brennan. Yeah, he may be more of an unknown quantity, but he would seem to answer questions about recruiting and buy-in better than Niumatalolo.
Brennan has recruited the west coast almost exclusively. That's where I think he has an advantage over Niumatalolo. While he may not have gotten the top kids out of the top programs, he's still built up relationships there to get the second tier kids.Spaceman Spiff wrote: ↑Wed Dec 16, 2020 9:43 amNo disrespect, but I think the focus on sex appeal and exciting people is where our previous hiring has lacked.Chicat wrote: ↑Wed Dec 16, 2020 9:31 am For many of the same reasons I was less than enthused about Niumatalolo three years ago, I'm less inclined to be excited about him now.
- Can he really recruit against the likes of ASU, UCLA, Utah, and Colorado?
- Will he be married to the Triple Option and can that system be successful in the Pac-12?
- Can he excite the fans enough to put butts in the seats when we start to allow crowds at games again?
- Will he inspire the football alumni to the point where they will want to be a part of the program and visible to the fanbase?
If the answers to these questions don't add up to what we want to see out of the next regime, go with Brennan. Yeah, he may be more of an unknown quantity, but he would seem to answer questions about recruiting and buy-in better than Niumatalolo.
Arizona is not an easy place to win at. We saw the exciting guy in Sumlin, and how fast that excitement vanished when we sucked ass.
People get excited and support a winning team. Niumatalolo has proven he can produce a winning team.
On recruiting, I don't understand the idea Brennan is a recruiting wizard. SJSU's 2020 class is 118th nationally. Their 2019 class was 127. 2018 was 94th nationally. All those ranks are from 24/7, fwiw.
In fairness to Brennan, SJSU is a tough place to recruit to, but I don't get why he's supposed to be a sure thing when his classes have been near the bottom nationally every year. Brennan's recruiting classes have been basically the same rank as Niumatalolo's, without being a service academy.
Don't get me wrong, Brennan has upside. I like him, but both guys have upside.
Agreed, plus you lack the ability to patch talent like other coaches have. You can't dip into juco, transfers or grad transfers if your QB recruit isn't working out.ChooChooCat wrote: ↑Wed Dec 16, 2020 9:37 amAlso when it comes to the service academies, so much is dependent on how good their QB is. Truly is the difference between 3 wins and 11.Spaceman Spiff wrote: ↑Wed Dec 16, 2020 9:00 amThat's not really what I've heard. It's more like a coach has to sell recruits on both football and Navy service.DrWildcat wrote: ↑Wed Dec 16, 2020 8:45 amMy point about recruiting is that I'm not even sure that Ken N has to recruit against the teams in his own conference. Basically, there is a specific type of recruit that is going to Navy and he just has to find out who they are. That's not the case at Arizona. Sure we are not getting high profile football recruits but we still have to compete against those higher profile teams in our conference. Maybe I'm wrong on this and Ken N is out there having to sell the football team and military service but I'm just not so sure.Spaceman Spiff wrote: ↑Wed Dec 16, 2020 8:21 amThe recruiting thing is one reason I like Niumatalolo. Arizona is a tough recruiting job where you can't rely on your backyard to get talent and you don't have a ton of resources.DrWildcat wrote: ↑Wed Dec 16, 2020 8:05 am If it is between Ken N and Brennan then I would prefer Brennan personally. Ken N has just been around so long that it is a little concerning that he hasn't moved on from Navy before. I also question how much recruiting he actually does. What does recruiting to a military academy actually look like? I'm sure it is hard but just because you're limited on the guys that want to go to an academy. I was under the assumption that the players are at least interested in the military above being interested in college football. Could be wrong on that, but why go to a military academy to play football if you have no interest in the military? Yes, I think he would be a good leader but is that enough? Also, and probably the biggest factor, he would require a higher salary as he already makes north of $2 million a year and a higher buyout if he fails at UA. This also likely equals less money for assistants.
I get there is risk with Brennan and the lack of HC record but he is on an upward trajectory, just won COY in the mountain west which is a pretty good G5 conference and would likely be cheaper. I'm thinking we could get him around $1.8-$2 million which would hopefully leave more room for the assistant coaching pool which is a big deal.
Could be completely wrong and I sure have been before but just my thoughts.
Navy requires you to recruit nationally and limits your pool to kids who realize their future isn't football and are willing to commit to service. Niumatalolo would be one of the few coaches where Arizona is really an expansion of his recruiting talent pool.
It's one reason I forgive his record being a little up and down at Navy. It's much harder to keep a consistent talent pipeline at a place like Navy.
Brennan's a better money deal, but Niumatalolo is more proven. I can see the upside in both.
Not that I wouldn't be fine with Niumatalolo, I just don't think its such a sure thing (if there is such a thing) and he will cost more.
Navy (the college) isn't just general enlistment, it's officer training, so the applicant pool is already fairly selective.
There will be some people who want to be Naval officers and have football talent, but there are fewer than 5,000 cadets in total. If a coach just relies on whoever wants to come out, that's a tiny population.
Sort of point being, if you can't identify guys who can do it and convince them, you'll have some trouble.
One is a decade younger than the other, which is why many would see him as having greater upside and putting in harder work to recruit than the other.Spaceman Spiff wrote: ↑Wed Dec 16, 2020 9:43 amNo disrespect, but I think the focus on sex appeal and exciting people is where our previous hiring has lacked.Chicat wrote: ↑Wed Dec 16, 2020 9:31 am For many of the same reasons I was less than enthused about Niumatalolo three years ago, I'm less inclined to be excited about him now.
- Can he really recruit against the likes of ASU, UCLA, Utah, and Colorado?
- Will he be married to the Triple Option and can that system be successful in the Pac-12?
- Can he excite the fans enough to put butts in the seats when we start to allow crowds at games again?
- Will he inspire the football alumni to the point where they will want to be a part of the program and visible to the fanbase?
If the answers to these questions don't add up to what we want to see out of the next regime, go with Brennan. Yeah, he may be more of an unknown quantity, but he would seem to answer questions about recruiting and buy-in better than Niumatalolo.
Arizona is not an easy place to win at. We saw the exciting guy in Sumlin, and how fast that excitement vanished when we sucked ass.
People get excited and support a winning team. Niumatalolo has proven he can produce a winning team.
On recruiting, I don't understand the idea Brennan is a recruiting wizard. SJSU's 2020 class is 118th nationally. Their 2019 class was 127. 2018 was 94th nationally. All those ranks are from 24/7, fwiw.
In fairness to Brennan, SJSU is a tough place to recruit to, but I don't get why he's supposed to be a sure thing when his classes have been near the bottom nationally every year. Brennan's recruiting classes have been basically the same rank as Niumatalolo's, without being a service academy.
Don't get me wrong, Brennan has upside. I like him, but both guys have upside.
A quick scan of the Navy roster looking at names and hometowns, it looks like Ken might have some Poly connections. Looks like 5 or 6 Poly kids on the current roster, which is more than I would have thought honestly.
I just don't see how recruiting the West Coast and getting a class that ranks 127th out of 130 D1 programs is a definite advantage in the book for Brennan.Chicat wrote: ↑Wed Dec 16, 2020 9:52 amBrennan has recruited the west coast almost exclusively. That's where I think he has an advantage over Niumatalolo. While he may not have gotten the top kids out of the top programs, he's still built up relationships there to get the second tier kids.Spaceman Spiff wrote: ↑Wed Dec 16, 2020 9:43 amNo disrespect, but I think the focus on sex appeal and exciting people is where our previous hiring has lacked.Chicat wrote: ↑Wed Dec 16, 2020 9:31 am For many of the same reasons I was less than enthused about Niumatalolo three years ago, I'm less inclined to be excited about him now.
- Can he really recruit against the likes of ASU, UCLA, Utah, and Colorado?
- Will he be married to the Triple Option and can that system be successful in the Pac-12?
- Can he excite the fans enough to put butts in the seats when we start to allow crowds at games again?
- Will he inspire the football alumni to the point where they will want to be a part of the program and visible to the fanbase?
If the answers to these questions don't add up to what we want to see out of the next regime, go with Brennan. Yeah, he may be more of an unknown quantity, but he would seem to answer questions about recruiting and buy-in better than Niumatalolo.
Arizona is not an easy place to win at. We saw the exciting guy in Sumlin, and how fast that excitement vanished when we sucked ass.
People get excited and support a winning team. Niumatalolo has proven he can produce a winning team.
On recruiting, I don't understand the idea Brennan is a recruiting wizard. SJSU's 2020 class is 118th nationally. Their 2019 class was 127. 2018 was 94th nationally. All those ranks are from 24/7, fwiw.
In fairness to Brennan, SJSU is a tough place to recruit to, but I don't get why he's supposed to be a sure thing when his classes have been near the bottom nationally every year. Brennan's recruiting classes have been basically the same rank as Niumatalolo's, without being a service academy.
Don't get me wrong, Brennan has upside. I like him, but both guys have upside.
Of course teams like SJSU and Navy will have similarly ranked recruiting classes. They are similar programs as far as visibility and competition. But they attract vastly different kids. We need the type of kid who would be recruited at SJSU, but at a higher caliber on the field.
I like both Niumatalolo and Brennan, and a big reason is they both have won with less talent and program advantages. Both Navy and SJSU are tough places to win at or attract talent to.ChooChooCat wrote: ↑Wed Dec 16, 2020 10:10 am Isn’t it even more impressive that Brennan hasn’t exactly killed it on the recruiting trail and yet has his team undefeated and playing for the MW championship?
As you've noted, SJSU is a tough place to recruit to. I also believe that at Arizona, whoever is the coach will need to win first, and then build upon that with recruits. Essentially doing what RichRod failed to do.Spaceman Spiff wrote: ↑Wed Dec 16, 2020 10:04 amI just don't see how recruiting the West Coast and getting a class that ranks 127th out of 130 D1 programs is a definite advantage in the book for Brennan.Chicat wrote: ↑Wed Dec 16, 2020 9:52 amBrennan has recruited the west coast almost exclusively. That's where I think he has an advantage over Niumatalolo. While he may not have gotten the top kids out of the top programs, he's still built up relationships there to get the second tier kids.Spaceman Spiff wrote: ↑Wed Dec 16, 2020 9:43 amNo disrespect, but I think the focus on sex appeal and exciting people is where our previous hiring has lacked.Chicat wrote: ↑Wed Dec 16, 2020 9:31 am For many of the same reasons I was less than enthused about Niumatalolo three years ago, I'm less inclined to be excited about him now.
- Can he really recruit against the likes of ASU, UCLA, Utah, and Colorado?
- Will he be married to the Triple Option and can that system be successful in the Pac-12?
- Can he excite the fans enough to put butts in the seats when we start to allow crowds at games again?
- Will he inspire the football alumni to the point where they will want to be a part of the program and visible to the fanbase?
If the answers to these questions don't add up to what we want to see out of the next regime, go with Brennan. Yeah, he may be more of an unknown quantity, but he would seem to answer questions about recruiting and buy-in better than Niumatalolo.
Arizona is not an easy place to win at. We saw the exciting guy in Sumlin, and how fast that excitement vanished when we sucked ass.
People get excited and support a winning team. Niumatalolo has proven he can produce a winning team.
On recruiting, I don't understand the idea Brennan is a recruiting wizard. SJSU's 2020 class is 118th nationally. Their 2019 class was 127. 2018 was 94th nationally. All those ranks are from 24/7, fwiw.
In fairness to Brennan, SJSU is a tough place to recruit to, but I don't get why he's supposed to be a sure thing when his classes have been near the bottom nationally every year. Brennan's recruiting classes have been basically the same rank as Niumatalolo's, without being a service academy.
Don't get me wrong, Brennan has upside. I like him, but both guys have upside.
Of course teams like SJSU and Navy will have similarly ranked recruiting classes. They are similar programs as far as visibility and competition. But they attract vastly different kids. We need the type of kid who would be recruited at SJSU, but at a higher caliber on the field.
I think it's a fair statement that either Brennan or Niumatalolo would be expected to pull classes ranking well ahead of what they have done. Frankly, I don't see either as a sure thing. Neither has a track record of pulling top classes.
I hesitate to put a ton of stock into Brennan's relationships when they haven't produced tremendous results. He's been bottom 10% nationally in 3 of 4 years.
Did anyone forget Paul Johnson Triple Option at Georgia Tech? And how he recruited there?scumdevils86 wrote: ↑Wed Dec 16, 2020 9:40 am Yea I am really worried about how Ken can recruit successfully to a program outside of navy if the triple o is his system still...
Johnson won 58% of his games at GT, made the Orange Bowl twice and made bowls in 9 of 11 years. Frankly, I'd be happy with those sort of results at Arizona.cordera89 wrote: ↑Wed Dec 16, 2020 10:16 amDid anyone forget Paul Johnson Triple Option at Georgia Tech? And how he recruited there?scumdevils86 wrote: ↑Wed Dec 16, 2020 9:40 am Yea I am really worried about how Ken can recruit successfully to a program outside of navy if the triple o is his system still...
A very good point.RondaeShimmy wrote: ↑Wed Dec 16, 2020 10:21 am I just can't imagine doing this to Niumatalolo a second time.
Think he's the guy.