Bear Down Wildcats

catgrad97 wrote: ↑Fri Dec 18, 2020 1:47 pm "At all" shouldn't matter, especially when we're looking at a program with a cupboard as bare as Arizona's.

We absolutely, desperately need our next coaching staff to be power recruiters. Negligence in this area since Tomey, frankly, has killed his legacy and formed the foundation of an existential crisis.

To an outsider looking at who has been hired since, the profile has been more "Who can hold his liquor" than "will outwork the other guy in recruiting." This is becoming a feature of this program, not a bug.

Only a legacy coach like Brennan or a disciplinarian and character-first coach like Niumatalolo can change that culture. Any kind of coach with a lazy rep in the recruiting arena, earned or not, isn't going to restore our good qualities Tomey's and Smith's recruits worked so hard to build.

The U of A has lost way too much Tucson talent to be excusable. Heck, even Smith lost Rodney Peete to SC. "Young, hungry" coaches don't have talk following them they won't recruit locally. We need to stop falling into the trap of overlooking that.

azgreg wrote: ↑Sat Dec 19, 2020 3:59 pm Brennan's QB threw it to the TE twice.....in the same drive.

ramcat wrote: ↑Sat Dec 19, 2020 4:47 pm Like what I see and have read about Brennan. Hope he can bring a few of the assts's.
4 rushing yds at half seems a bit unbalanced. Anyone familiar with offense, and whether this is an aberration?

azgreg wrote: ↑Sat Dec 19, 2020 4:55 pm

ramcat wrote: ↑Sat Dec 19, 2020 4:47 pm Like what I see and have read about Brennan. Hope he can bring a few of the assts's.
4 rushing yds at half seems a bit unbalanced. Anyone familiar with offense, and whether this is an aberration?

Taking a quick look at their stats:
Passing: 125-190 for 1,656 yards
Rushing: 189 for 946 yards.

Irish27 wrote: ↑Sat Dec 19, 2020 4:06 pm San Jose State looking very impressive. I hope Brennan is Heeke's pick

ByJoveByJingle wrote: ↑Sat Dec 19, 2020 4:21 pm They are a hell of a lot better coached than we were. Not saying much, but they do look impressive thus far. Their D is also killing it. Can he bring half the team with him?

prh wrote: ↑Sat Dec 19, 2020 1:23 pm I think the discussion about recruiting is overblown. We thought Sumlin's recruiting would transfer over, it didn't. We didn't compare Miller's recruiting at Xavier to blue bloods, it's all relative to the level. We just need a coach to not completely ignore recruiting. Stoops level recruiting seems very achievable.

But what is bigger than recruiting, and the most important thing we need, is a culture. We aren't trying to match physically dominant programs like Bama and OSU, we are dealing with the Pac12. Chip Kelly didn't win at Oregon because of his recruiting, which was not comparable to national powers. He won because he created a culture that was absolutely unparalleled in the Pac12 during that time.

Carcassdragger wrote: ↑Sat Dec 19, 2020 7:29 pm

prh wrote: ↑Sat Dec 19, 2020 1:23 pm I think the discussion about recruiting is overblown. We thought Sumlin's recruiting would transfer over, it didn't. We didn't compare Miller's recruiting at Xavier to blue bloods, it's all relative to the level. We just need a coach to not completely ignore recruiting. Stoops level recruiting seems very achievable.

But what is bigger than recruiting, and the most important thing we need, is a culture. We aren't trying to match physically dominant programs like Bama and OSU, we are dealing with the Pac12. Chip Kelly didn't win at Oregon because of his recruiting, which was not comparable to national powers. He won because he created a culture that was absolutely unparalleled in the Pac12 during that time.

Absolutely untrue. Kelly recruited some of the best players in the country to Oregon.

azgreg wrote: ↑Sat Dec 19, 2020 6:51 pm Not to throw too much cold water on it though but SJSU had another coach that did well and went on to a P5 school. He went 1-10, 5-7, and then 10-2. That guy is Mike MacIntyre.

prh wrote: ↑Sat Dec 19, 2020 7:30 pm

Carcassdragger wrote: ↑Sat Dec 19, 2020 7:29 pm

prh wrote: ↑Sat Dec 19, 2020 1:23 pm I think the discussion about recruiting is overblown. We thought Sumlin's recruiting would transfer over, it didn't. We didn't compare Miller's recruiting at Xavier to blue bloods, it's all relative to the level. We just need a coach to not completely ignore recruiting. Stoops level recruiting seems very achievable.

But what is bigger than recruiting, and the most important thing we need, is a culture. We aren't trying to match physically dominant programs like Bama and OSU, we are dealing with the Pac12. Chip Kelly didn't win at Oregon because of his recruiting, which was not comparable to national powers. He won because he created a culture that was absolutely unparalleled in the Pac12 during that time.

Absolutely untrue. Kelly recruited some of the best players in the country to Oregon.

Some individual players, yes. But his classes as a whole were not remotely in the same ballpark as the blue blood programs. In various years, they were even behind multiple out of USC, UCLA, and Stanford, just in the Pac12.

Regardless, the point is that their run of dominance was not due to recruiting, it was due to the culture Kelly created. There was absolute buy in all around that program.

Carcassdragger wrote: ↑Sat Dec 19, 2020 9:17 pm

prh wrote: ↑Sat Dec 19, 2020 7:30 pm

Carcassdragger wrote: ↑Sat Dec 19, 2020 7:29 pm

prh wrote: ↑Sat Dec 19, 2020 1:23 pm I think the discussion about recruiting is overblown. We thought Sumlin's recruiting would transfer over, it didn't. We didn't compare Miller's recruiting at Xavier to blue bloods, it's all relative to the level. We just need a coach to not completely ignore recruiting. Stoops level recruiting seems very achievable.

But what is bigger than recruiting, and the most important thing we need, is a culture. We aren't trying to match physically dominant programs like Bama and OSU, we are dealing with the Pac12. Chip Kelly didn't win at Oregon because of his recruiting, which was not comparable to national powers. He won because he created a culture that was absolutely unparalleled in the Pac12 during that time.

Absolutely untrue. Kelly recruited some of the best players in the country to Oregon.

Some individual players, yes. But his classes as a whole were not remotely in the same ballpark as the blue blood programs. In various years, they were even behind multiple out of USC, UCLA, and Stanford, just in the Pac12.

Regardless, the point is that their run of dominance was not due to recruiting, it was due to the culture Kelly created. There was absolute buy in all around that program.

No. Kelly was there as OC or Head coach for 6 six years during which time they only had one class ranked outside the top 20. Point being, recruiting is critical.

prh wrote: ↑Sat Dec 19, 2020 9:57 pm

Carcassdragger wrote: ↑Sat Dec 19, 2020 9:17 pm

prh wrote: ↑Sat Dec 19, 2020 7:30 pm

Carcassdragger wrote: ↑Sat Dec 19, 2020 7:29 pm

prh wrote: ↑Sat Dec 19, 2020 1:23 pm I think the discussion about recruiting is overblown. We thought Sumlin's recruiting would transfer over, it didn't. We didn't compare Miller's recruiting at Xavier to blue bloods, it's all relative to the level. We just need a coach to not completely ignore recruiting. Stoops level recruiting seems very achievable.

But what is bigger than recruiting, and the most important thing we need, is a culture. We aren't trying to match physically dominant programs like Bama and OSU, we are dealing with the Pac12. Chip Kelly didn't win at Oregon because of his recruiting, which was not comparable to national powers. He won because he created a culture that was absolutely unparalleled in the Pac12 during that time.

Absolutely untrue. Kelly recruited some of the best players in the country to Oregon.

Some individual players, yes. But his classes as a whole were not remotely in the same ballpark as the blue blood programs. In various years, they were even behind multiple out of USC, UCLA, and Stanford, just in the Pac12.

Regardless, the point is that their run of dominance was not due to recruiting, it was due to the culture Kelly created. There was absolute buy in all around that program.

No. Kelly was there as OC or Head coach for 6 six years during which time they only had one class ranked outside the top 20. Point being, recruiting is critical.

From 2009-2012, when he was the HC, Oregon finished ranked 11, 3, 4, and 2. Their recruiting ranks (Rivals) were 32-13-9-16. Alabama's classes were 1-5-1-1. Texas's classes were 5-3-3-2. USC's were 4-1-4-8. There's a big difference between averaging the 17th class and averaging the 1st, 3rd, or 4th class.

If you want to quibble over numbers, go right ahead. But the main point, which is critical for us, and you have not commented on, is that we need a shift in culture. Recruiting alone will not turn our program around.

cordera89 wrote: ↑Sat Dec 19, 2020 9:09 pm

azgreg wrote: ↑Sat Dec 19, 2020 6:51 pm Not to throw too much cold water on it though but SJSU had another coach that did well and went on to a P5 school. He went 1-10, 5-7, and then 10-2. That guy is Mike MacIntyre.

Maclntrye did Three Season at SJSU which he went 1-12,5-7,11-3? That impressive as hell but compare that to brennan 2-11,1-11, 5-7 then one hit wonder 7-0?

Stepping Stone at it finest.

UofAlum05 wrote: ↑Sun Dec 20, 2020 1:14 pm I have no doubt that Arizona is going to screw this whole thing up.

UofAlum05 wrote: ↑Sun Dec 20, 2020 1:14 pm I have no doubt that Arizona is going to screw this whole thing up.

Harvey Specter wrote: ↑Sat Dec 19, 2020 10:43 pm I think you are the one who is quibbling. Coaching alone will not turn this program alone, and neither will recruiting. We need dramatic improvements on both fronts if we are to have ANY chance of returning to respectability.

Did Kelly’s on-field performance outpace his recruiting in Eugene? Arguably, yes. But to suggest that his recruiting was anything less than strong (he AVERAGED a top ~12 class in each season that he had a full year to recruit) is wholly inaccurate. In even our BEST year we have never had a coach who even SNIFFED that territory.

We need a TECTONIC shift in culture that includes (and is arguably LED by) significant improvements on the recruiting trail. This program needs someone who is laser-focused on EVERY detail than contributes to on-field success; it is not “this OR that”, it is ALL of it. (The notion that attention to detail is a flaw is one of the most laughable fallacies in modern culture).

There are many blue-prints for building a successful program, in terms of a coach’s prior pedigree, but there is not a SINGLE one that does not include getting good players (relative to the teams a program competes with). And for every “profile” of coach that succeeds in a new role (up and comer, hungry assistant, proven winner, etc) - there are plenty who fail (with similar CV’s).

I could count on one hand the number of coaches who would be a sure thing, and we are not getting a returned phone call for so much as an interview from ANY of them. This is another roll of the dice; hopefully the Gods will favor us with the cards we draw on this hand.

3rdand25 wrote: ↑Sun Dec 20, 2020 5:10 pm

Harvey Specter wrote: ↑Sat Dec 19, 2020 10:43 pm I think you are the one who is quibbling. Coaching alone will not turn this program alone, and neither will recruiting. We need dramatic improvements on both fronts if we are to have ANY chance of returning to respectability.

Did Kelly’s on-field performance outpace his recruiting in Eugene? Arguably, yes. But to suggest that his recruiting was anything less than strong (he AVERAGED a top ~12 class in each season that he had a full year to recruit) is wholly inaccurate. In even our BEST year we have never had a coach who even SNIFFED that territory.

We need a TECTONIC shift in culture that includes (and is arguably LED by) significant improvements on the recruiting trail. This program needs someone who is laser-focused on EVERY detail than contributes to on-field success; it is not “this OR that”, it is ALL of it. (The notion that attention to detail is a flaw is one of the most laughable fallacies in modern culture).

There are many blue-prints for building a successful program, in terms of a coach’s prior pedigree, but there is not a SINGLE one that does not include getting good players (relative to the teams a program competes with). And for every “profile” of coach that succeeds in a new role (up and comer, hungry assistant, proven winner, etc) - there are plenty who fail (with similar CV’s).

I could count on one hand the number of coaches who would be a sure thing, and we are not getting a returned phone call for so much as an interview from ANY of them. This is another roll of the dice; hopefully the Gods will favor us with the cards we draw on this hand.

Reality check on all the drama. It ain't that bad folks.

Coaching at Arizona is not an impossible job. You make it sound like we can't even talk to a decent candidate.

4 of the last 6 coaches here have done OK.
Larry Smith
Dick Tomey
Mike Stoops
Rich Rodriguez

We don't need a genius or the second coming of Christ. Just a good football coach who is engaged in the job. That's it.

Harvey Specter wrote: ↑Sun Dec 20, 2020 9:22 pm

3rdand25 wrote: ↑Sun Dec 20, 2020 5:10 pm

Harvey Specter wrote: ↑Sat Dec 19, 2020 10:43 pm I think you are the one who is quibbling. Coaching alone will not turn this program alone, and neither will recruiting. We need dramatic improvements on both fronts if we are to have ANY chance of returning to respectability.

Did Kelly’s on-field performance outpace his recruiting in Eugene? Arguably, yes. But to suggest that his recruiting was anything less than strong (he AVERAGED a top ~12 class in each season that he had a full year to recruit) is wholly inaccurate. In even our BEST year we have never had a coach who even SNIFFED that territory.

We need a TECTONIC shift in culture that includes (and is arguably LED by) significant improvements on the recruiting trail. This program needs someone who is laser-focused on EVERY detail than contributes to on-field success; it is not “this OR that”, it is ALL of it. (The notion that attention to detail is a flaw is one of the most laughable fallacies in modern culture).

There are many blue-prints for building a successful program, in terms of a coach’s prior pedigree, but there is not a SINGLE one that does not include getting good players (relative to the teams a program competes with). And for every “profile” of coach that succeeds in a new role (up and comer, hungry assistant, proven winner, etc) - there are plenty who fail (with similar CV’s).

I could count on one hand the number of coaches who would be a sure thing, and we are not getting a returned phone call for so much as an interview from ANY of them. This is another roll of the dice; hopefully the Gods will favor us with the cards we draw on this hand.

Reality check on all the drama. It ain't that bad folks.

Coaching at Arizona is not an impossible job. You make it sound like we can't even talk to a decent candidate.

4 of the last 6 coaches here have done OK.
Larry Smith
Dick Tomey
Mike Stoops
Rich Rodriguez

We don't need a genius or the second coming of Christ. Just a good football coach who is engaged in the job. That's it.

Smith and Tomey were here decades (plural) ago, and both Stoops and Rodriguez were such resounding successes that they were both fired (with major public support for their terminations) after moderate tenures and with losing conference records. You define that as respectable, so be it. We can agree to disagree.

If it was easy, we would not be in the predicament we are in - which is the ntOSU PAC-12 program of my youth.

WE REALLY suck, Fortunately I do not get that wrapped up in this stuff anymore (hence my extended hiatus from this board), but diminishing the challenge of the predicament we are it does not make it any easier.

But a “can-do” attitude from the fan base will make it all better!

MountainCat wrote: ↑Mon Dec 21, 2020 9:39 am ...Is today the day?

cerec_cat wrote: ↑Mon Dec 21, 2020 12:55 pm Weird, I thought this page would be red hot today... Have we talked it to death?