Why can't we consistently fill AZ Stadium?

Newportcat · Post by **Newportcat** » Tue Oct 02, 2018 11:11 am

gronk4heisman wrote:
CalStateTempe wrote:Also somethings changed in me...knowing what we know about CTE, i can’t “celebrate” the big hit anymore. I see them play out during a game and I just cringe now. It won’t change anything but I can’t support a game that ruins young men’s brains.

I saw a big hit on JJ Taylor in the backfield around the 2nd quarter and his head went down my my first thought was to his health and safety. That’s new for me and been a constant all season. And now that I feel that way is challenges me as to what to do about it.

Getting very difficult for me to support this form of entertainment.
I don't get this perception that head injures have long term effects on people is a new revelation. I was taught from my youth that head injuries have long term effects. To me it seems a lot like the whole smoking is bad revelation where people seemed to need extensive studies to know filling your lungs with carcinogens repeatedly is bad for you. I get the not supporting football because of the damage it does, but it is not some new thing that repeatedly knocking yourself out is not good for you.

I always knew Football was not great physically for the people who play it long term but it was all the recent information on CTE which has had the bigger affect on me. They idea of the little hits being so dangerous and causing so many long term issues. It really feels like in the past 4-5 years most of the information on this has come out that its not just concussions which are the issue. The idea that all those little repetitive hits can cause such permanent brain damage was something new for me. Maybe I was not looking hard enough or ignoring facts. I candidly will admit it is pretty stupid in hindsight not to see the connection but feels like the idea of CTE is something relatively new.

I guess its like people in the 60's and 70's saying they knew smoking could not be good for you but it was not until the 80's that I think the facts really came out on how bad it truly was. Feels like football is the same thing. It is a violent sport but before I thought it was more damaging to someone physically. The pretty conclusive evidence so far on brain damage is what changed things for me.

Merkin · Post by **Merkin** » Tue Oct 02, 2018 11:20 am

Stoops' antics were kind of refreshing when he started. Then they got a little tiring and his rants would cause the team precious seconds and time management became a real issue.

Although after years of Tomey's blank stare, where you couldn't tell whether the Cats scored a TD, or just lost the ball on the 1 yard line, it was all the same.

ByJoveByJingle · Post by **ByJoveByJingle** » Wed Oct 03, 2018 9:56 am

azcat49 wrote:BJBJ, that's not it for me. I loved Stoops sideline behavior because in my small mind it showed me he wanted to win and bad. Too me he was fully invested.

I am not looking for that behavior as a sign but I have not yet seen or read anything from Sumlin where he hints at a plan for the future. He kind of just gives the typical coach speak of fixing things, yet we keep doing the same thing.

I guess keeping Tate out there gives us the best shot at a win but I think that act is starting to wear thin on everyone but Sumlin.

Well I guess if there is a lesson to be learned after having employed the full gamut of sideline demeanors from Tomey/Sumlin to Mackovick to RR to Stoops it’s that sideline behavior is no predictor of success.

Didn’t I read a quote from Sumlin commenting of Tate not taking advantage of running opportunities? Given the norm of coachspeak, that’s pretty straightforward public criticism. Unfortunately for most coaches it takes a lot to sit a starting QB. I guess the Clemson situation helps explain that. Personally at the collegiate level, I think the QB position should be treated more like any other position—sit people when they aren’t performing.

prh · Post by **prh** » Wed Oct 03, 2018 6:16 pm

Oh look Alabama has attendance issues too

http://www.espn.com/college-football/st ... yette-game" target="_blank

"When I first came here, you used to play that tradition (video) thing up there and everybody was cheering and excited and happy and there was great spirit," Saban said. "Now they don't even cheer. They introduce our players and nobody even cheers. So I don't know, maybe there's something else somebody else ought to talk about. Maybe I shouldn't talk about it. Maybe I already talked about it more than I should."

DrWildcat · Post by **DrWildcat** » Wed Oct 03, 2018 7:04 pm

prh wrote:Oh look Alabama has attendance issues too

http://www.espn.com/college-football/st ... yette-game" target="_blank

"When I first came here, you used to play that tradition (video) thing up there and everybody was cheering and excited and happy and there was great spirit," Saban said. "Now they don't even cheer. They introduce our players and nobody even cheers. So I don't know, maybe there's something else somebody else ought to talk about. Maybe I shouldn't talk about it. Maybe I already talked about it more than I should."

Its been that way for quite a few years now. When they play crappy out of conference games like Louisiana Lafayette attendance is spotty, its not just the student section either. To be fair, a lot of people have to drive far to get to Alabama games. Tuscaloosa (a very crappy place) has less people than can fit in the stadium. However, bottom line is that if Arizona had the product Alabama does we wouldn't have problems selling tickets.

Merkin · Post by **Merkin** » Thu Oct 04, 2018 8:02 am

This is what Alabama is doing to get more student involvement:

https://sports.yahoo.com/college-footba ... 19769.html" target="_blank

What’s driving the attendance issues?

It’s never just one thing. Among non-student fans, the Journal cited a number of reasons, like the ability to watch games at home on enormous flat-screen TVs. Or rising ticket costs, which is compounded by issues like changing game times, long games, and traffic issues. Why spend money on tickets and parking (not to mention the time it takes to get there and back) to see the players look like ants in the nosebleed section, when you could just relax in your own home and see everything up close on your 75-inch TV?

Student attendance has also become an issue. High prices are one reason why, but the increasing availability of games on TV has made it easier for students to buy tickets and just not show up. Spectator sports require people to sit and be engaged, which doesn’t always jive with how students want to experience games. Alabama, a college football powerhouse, is trying something to fix that.

As part of a recently announced renovation of Bryant-Denny Stadium, the school plans to add a student terrace to create “a more interactive and social environment,” athletic director Greg Byrne said.

Similar comments here:

https://sportsday.dallasnews.com/colleg ... n-tv-blame" target="_blank

Tickets are too expensive.

The games take four hours and, given the burden of working one's way into and out of parking lots, it's an all-day commitment.

Since everything is done for TV, kickoff times aren't even set two weeks before the game.

And then there's the biggest which is the toughest to address.

It's just easier to watch on your big screens at home.

Even then, much of the attendance is free, such as counting marching bands and the press.

PHXCATS · Post by **PHXCATS** » Thu Oct 04, 2018 8:45 am

Funny how the best coach in college of all time says attendance is important.

DrWildcat · Post by **DrWildcat** » Thu Oct 04, 2018 8:55 am

PHXCATS wrote:Funny how the best coach in college of all time says attendance is important.

Saban complains about everything. I don't think anyone disagrees that attendance isn't important. However, a program must earn support. It shouldn't just be given.

PHXCATS · Post by **PHXCATS** » Thu Oct 04, 2018 9:00 am

DrWildcat wrote:
PHXCATS wrote:Funny how the best coach in college of all time says attendance is important.
Saban complains about everything. I don't think anyone disagrees that attendance isn't important. However, a program must earn support. It shouldn't just be given.

Pro sports sure. Not in college

UALoco · Post by **UALoco** » Thu Oct 04, 2018 9:49 am

We are Arizona, attendance ain't gonna happen ever again. We can close this thread.

PHXCATS · Post by **PHXCATS** » Thu Oct 04, 2018 9:59 am

UALoco wrote:We are Arizona, attendance ain't gonna happen ever again. We can close this thread.

But I thought when RR left it would......
When we had a qb.......
A good schedule........

You are 100 percent right

Chicat · Post by **Chicat** » Thu Oct 04, 2018 10:06 am

This thread is Machina Viagra.

Merkin · Post by **Merkin** » Thu Oct 04, 2018 10:09 am

I was a student during the Larry Smith years, when the basketball program was in shambles and the UA was a football school.

Even then I remember getting free tickets at Kragen for the upper deck seats so I could sit with relatives.

No internet or cell phones back then either, and think my TV was only 19".

If I remember right, the games weren't even televised live. I recall going to the games, then later watching them at night when channel 13 replayed them.

PieceOfMeat · Post by **PieceOfMeat** » Thu Oct 04, 2018 11:13 am

fuck greg byrne.

also, machina is still ignoring the bump in season ticket sales before this year.

azcat49 · Post by **azcat49** » Thu Oct 04, 2018 11:18 am

UofA has my support, just not for football at the moment ( I told the AD I am not renewing my 3 season tickets for next year). I support basketball, volleyball, baseball with season tickets an all other sports get my attention but not my money.

Unconditional love and money is reserved for only one area, family

PHXCATS · Post by **PHXCATS** » Thu Oct 04, 2018 12:03 pm

PieceOfMeat wrote:fuck greg byrne.

also, machina is still ignoring the bump in season ticket sales before this year.

I also notice all the empty seats and the drop multiplie years in a row before

PieceOfMeat · Post by **PieceOfMeat** » Thu Oct 04, 2018 1:04 pm

PHXCATS wrote:
PieceOfMeat wrote:fuck greg byrne.

also, machina is still ignoring the bump in season ticket sales before this year.
I also notice all the empty seats and the drop multiplie years in a row before

Don't pretend that you're not being purposefully obtuse with this post:

PHXCATS wrote:
But I thought when RR left it would......
When we had a qb.......
A good schedule........

What happened when RR left and new coach came in and we thought we had a heisman candidate at qb and a favorable schedule?

Sesaon ticket sales went up.

What happened when we shit the bed to start the season and our qb looks like a shadow of his former self and the D is still as bad as it ever was?

Attendance went down.

You want to hate on fans, fine, be that type of person. Just don't be willfully stupid regarding what happens with ticket sales and attendance.

PieceOfMeat · Post by **PieceOfMeat** » Thu Oct 04, 2018 1:04 pm

also, and again,

fuck
greg
byrne

PHXCATS · Post by **PHXCATS** » Thu Oct 04, 2018 1:17 pm

PieceOfMeat wrote:
PHXCATS wrote:
PieceOfMeat wrote:fuck greg byrne.

also, machina is still ignoring the bump in season ticket sales before this year.
I also notice all the empty seats and the drop multiplie years in a row before
Don't pretend that you're not being purposefully obtuse with this post:

PHXCATS wrote:
But I thought when RR left it would......
When we had a qb.......
A good schedule........
What happened when RR left and new coach came in and we thought we had a heisman candidate at qb and a favorable schedule?

Sesaon ticket sales went up.

What happened when we shit the bed to start the season and our qb looks like a shadow of his former self and the D is still as bad as it ever was?

Attendance went down.

You want to hate on fans, fine, be that type of person. Just don't be willfully stupid regarding what happens with ticket sales and attendance.

I am fully aware as we have so many fair weather fans

Chicat · Post by **Chicat** » Thu Oct 04, 2018 2:23 pm

PHXCATS wrote:
PieceOfMeat wrote:
PHXCATS wrote:
PieceOfMeat wrote:fuck greg byrne.

also, machina is still ignoring the bump in season ticket sales before this year.
I also notice all the empty seats and the drop multiplie years in a row before
Don't pretend that you're not being purposefully obtuse with this post:

PHXCATS wrote:
But I thought when RR left it would......
When we had a qb.......
A good schedule........
What happened when RR left and new coach came in and we thought we had a heisman candidate at qb and a favorable schedule?

Sesaon ticket sales went up.

What happened when we shit the bed to start the season and our qb looks like a shadow of his former self and the D is still as bad as it ever was?

Attendance went down.

You want to hate on fans, fine, be that type of person. Just don't be willfully stupid regarding what happens with ticket sales and attendance.
I am fully aware as we have so many fair weather fans

Better to be a fan who wants to see a winning and entertaining product than to be a sanctimonious prick.

UALoco · Post by **UALoco** » Thu Oct 04, 2018 2:24 pm

51k attended BYU after all the hype and hoopla. The stadium holds 56k. We averaged 56k in '94. We've seen peak football.

Merkin · Post by **Merkin** » Thu Oct 04, 2018 2:36 pm

I think the most telling attendance moment was 10/28/17.

UA had just won 3 in a row, and Khalil Tate was the most exciting player in college football and had won multiple player of the week awards. What a month he had.

The prior game was an exciting 45-44 double OT win v. Cal. Tate had passed for 166 yards and ran for 137.

#15 ranked WSU was coming into town, and had a decent 6:30pm kickoff time. Mike Leach of course had the Air Raid offense going.

42,822 was the announced attendance.

Post by **UAdevil** » Thu Oct 04, 2018 3:46 pm

PHXCATS wrote:
DrWildcat wrote:
PHXCATS wrote:Funny how the best coach in college of all time says attendance is important.
Saban complains about everything. I don't think anyone disagrees that attendance isn't important. However, a program must earn support. It shouldn't just be given.
Pro sports sure. Not in college

How much time and money is a college owed by fans, no matter how poor and/or unentertaining the product is? For the tens of thousands of dollars I paid to go to UA I've earned the right to owe them more money for a product I have very little fun consuming?

Newportcat · Post by **Newportcat** » Thu Oct 04, 2018 5:38 pm

UAdevil wrote:
PHXCATS wrote:
DrWildcat wrote:
PHXCATS wrote:Funny how the best coach in college of all time says attendance is important.
Saban complains about everything. I don't think anyone disagrees that attendance isn't important. However, a program must earn support. It shouldn't just be given.
Pro sports sure. Not in college
How much time and money is a college owed by fans, no matter how poor and/or unentertaining the product is? For the tens of thousands of dollars I paid to go to UA I've earned the right to owe them more money for a product I have very little fun consuming?

Remember, its even worse for current students as they now owe a mandatory fee which goes to the athletic department mostly to pay off debt from the new stadium improvements. So they are fans of our football program regardless how they feel because they are financially supporting it. They do not get a choice. I used to support the fee but now do not knowing how much of it is being used to pay for debt to fund football stadium improvements that are going to go to waste.

FYI, arguing with Machina is a waste of time on this issue. He does not live in reality.

azcat49 · Post by **azcat49** » Thu Oct 04, 2018 8:39 pm

Keep kicking against the pricks, the more we all rally around Sean Miller and basketball

PHXCATS · Post by **PHXCATS** » Fri Oct 05, 2018 2:40 pm

PieceOfMeat wrote:
PHXCATS wrote:
PieceOfMeat wrote:fuck greg byrne.

also, machina is still ignoring the bump in season ticket sales before this year.
I also notice all the empty seats and the drop multiplie years in a row before
Don't pretend that you're not being purposefully obtuse with this post:

PHXCATS wrote:
But I thought when RR left it would......
When we had a qb.......
A good schedule........
What happened when RR left and new coach came in and we thought we had a heisman candidate at qb and a favorable schedule?

Sesaon ticket sales went up.

What happened when we shit the bed to start the season and our qb looks like a shadow of his former self and the D is still as bad as it ever was?

Attendance went down.

You want to hate on fans, fine, be that type of person. Just don't be willfully stupid regarding what happens with ticket sales and attendance.

Just a FYI POM. Since Stoops last year this year's average attendance has been the 2nd worst.

2011-47,284
2012-47,931
2013-47,619
2014-50,710
2015-51,393
2016-48,288
2017-42,632
2018-45,356

So as you can clearly tell by the data, the pump up this year means absolutely nothing

Chicat · Post by **Chicat** » Fri Oct 05, 2018 2:45 pm

“Bring back Stoops.”

- Machina (I’m guessing)

PieceOfMeat · Post by **PieceOfMeat** » Fri Oct 05, 2018 9:56 pm

PHXCATS wrote:
PieceOfMeat wrote:
PHXCATS wrote:
PieceOfMeat wrote:fuck greg byrne.

also, machina is still ignoring the bump in season ticket sales before this year.
I also notice all the empty seats and the drop multiplie years in a row before
Don't pretend that you're not being purposefully obtuse with this post:

PHXCATS wrote:
But I thought when RR left it would......
When we had a qb.......
A good schedule........
What happened when RR left and new coach came in and we thought we had a heisman candidate at qb and a favorable schedule?

Sesaon ticket sales went up.

What happened when we shit the bed to start the season and our qb looks like a shadow of his former self and the D is still as bad as it ever was?

Attendance went down.

You want to hate on fans, fine, be that type of person. Just don't be willfully stupid regarding what happens with ticket sales and attendance.
Just a FYI POM. Since Stoops last year this year's average attendance has been the 2nd worst.

2011-47,284
2012-47,931
2013-47,619
2014-50,710
2015-51,393
2016-48,288
2017-42,632
2018-45,356

So as you can clearly tell by the data, the pump up this year means absolutely nothing

who gives a shit about stoops?

again you're being willfully obtuse and trying to bring in shit that doesn't matter.

the only numbers that matter currently are these:
2017-42,632
2018-45,356

2018 would be higher if we hadn't shit the bed so disastrously to start the season.

this town is chomping at the bit to support a winning program.

we got a new coach, had some excitement going, and season sales went up a huge amount.

we shit the bed, excitement gave way to disappointment, and attendance dropped.

this isn't rocket science.

ASUHATER! · Post by **ASUHATER!** » Fri Oct 05, 2018 10:15 pm

I'd bet if we hadn't lost to Houston and BYU our home attendance would've been over 50k this year.

blackjacker · Post by **blackjacker** » Fri Oct 05, 2018 11:41 pm

PHXCATS wrote:
PieceOfMeat wrote:
PHXCATS wrote:
PieceOfMeat wrote:fuck greg byrne.

also, machina is still ignoring the bump in season ticket sales before this year.
I also notice all the empty seats and the drop multiplie years in a row before
Don't pretend that you're not being purposefully obtuse with this post:

PHXCATS wrote:
Just a FYI POM. Since Stoops last year this year's average attendance has been the 2nd worst.

2011-47,284
2012-47,931
2013-47,619
2014-50,710
2015-51,393
2016-48,288
2017-42,632
2018-45,356

So as you can clearly tell by the data, the pump up this year means absolutely nothing

This data indicates that the highest attendance was the year after winning the division, despite the embarrassing showing in the championship game and losing the bowl game.
Clearly "If you build it, they will come."
it's never going to be the opposite of that, and your whining is a waste of digital ink.
Only when fans are shown that conference championships are possible here, will fans invest.
Until then they will always be waiting for the let down.

UALoco · Post by **UALoco** » Sat Oct 06, 2018 12:19 pm

azgreg · Post by **azgreg** » Sat Oct 06, 2018 6:58 pm

Which one is Machina?

PHXCATS · Post by **PHXCATS** » Sat Oct 06, 2018 7:01 pm

azgreg wrote:Which one is Machina?

I sit on the west side

azgreg · Post by **azgreg** » Sat Oct 06, 2018 7:03 pm

ASUHATER! · Post by **ASUHATER!** » Sat Oct 06, 2018 7:07 pm

It's family weekend, people are going to show up really late. Campus was packed a few hours ago.

PHXCATS · Post by **PHXCATS** » Sat Oct 06, 2018 9:23 pm

How great would it be if we didnt have awful fans and could force a false start or delay of game. But the team needs to earn it............

PieceOfMeat · Post by **PieceOfMeat** » Sat Oct 06, 2018 9:37 pm

PHXCATS wrote:How great would it be if we didnt have awful fans and could force a false start or delay of game. But the team needs to earn it............

Keep your shit posts about fans here.

PHXCATS · Post by **PHXCATS** » Sat Oct 06, 2018 9:45 pm

PieceOfMeat wrote:
PHXCATS wrote:How great would it be if we didnt have awful fans and could force a false start or delay of game. But the team needs to earn it............
Keep your shit posts about fans here.

4th and 1 on the south end but no fans. But we have to earn it per the fans on this board so ..............

prh · Post by **prh** » Sat Oct 06, 2018 10:22 pm

Perma ban time yet again

azcat49 · Post by **azcat49** » Sat Oct 06, 2018 11:17 pm

Just crazy to think we had a SI cover guy with that rag saying, "give him the Heisman". You would think with that kind of hype we would have 50k plus a game.

But see AZ football fans,are smart, very smart.they can sniff out disappointment before their pocketbook gets hurt. They are already numb and ready for the let down so a QB who doesn't want that hardware (won't run) and leads a team to a 3-3 start hardly registers with most of our fans. It's just AZ football

ByJoveByJingle · Post by **ByJoveByJingle** » Sat Oct 06, 2018 11:19 pm

My first season tickets since I was an undergrad a hundred years ago. I’m enjoying myself and the team. Tate issues aside, they play hard and they don’t quit. And when was the last time the defense won us a football game?

ASUHATER! · Post by **ASUHATER!** » Sat Oct 06, 2018 11:20 pm

azcat49 wrote:Just crazy to think we had a SI cover guy with that rag saying, "give him the Heisman". You would think with that kind of hype we would have 50k plus a game.

But see AZ football fans,are smart, very smart.they can sniff out disappointment before their pocketbook gets hurt. They are already numb and ready for the let down so a QB who doesn't want that hardware (won't run) and leads a team to a 3-3 start hardly registers with most of our fans. It's just AZ football

Yeah. We've been let down so many dozens of times that I actually commend our attendance, it shows how smart the fans are and how they can judge for themselves if the program has made itself worthy of support. If Arizona actually became a good consistent winner, and I'm just talking like winning 8-10 games a year and being in the division race most years, we'd have good crowds all the time.

Post by **UAdevil** » Sat Oct 06, 2018 11:27 pm

PHXCATS wrote:
PieceOfMeat wrote:
PHXCATS wrote:How great would it be if we didnt have awful fans and could force a false start or delay of game. But the team needs to earn it............
Keep your shit posts about fans here.
4th and 1 on the south end but no fans. But we have to earn it per the fans on this board so ..............

You're damn right they have to earn it. It's college football, not charity.

PHXCATS · Post by **PHXCATS** » Sun Oct 07, 2018 12:21 am

UAdevil wrote:
PHXCATS wrote:
PieceOfMeat wrote:
PHXCATS wrote:How great would it be if we didnt have awful fans and could force a false start or delay of game. But the team needs to earn it............
Keep your shit posts about fans here.
4th and 1 on the south end but no fans. But we have to earn it per the fans on this board so ..............
You're damn right they have to earn it. It's college football, not charity.

College not the NFL. Fair weather fans don't win conference titles

PieceOfMeat · Post by **PieceOfMeat** » Sun Oct 07, 2018 12:33 am

PHXCATS wrote: College not the NFL. Fair weather fans don't win conference titles

fans don't win conference titles

PHXCATS · Post by **PHXCATS** » Sun Oct 07, 2018 12:42 am

Fail yet again POM but you should be very used to it

Last season power 5.

USC-good fans
Ohio State-good fans
Oklahoma-good fans
Georgia-good fans
Clemson-good fans

Weird how that worked out. And yes all have had good fans for many years even in down times

KillerKlown · Post by **KillerKlown** » Sun Oct 07, 2018 1:35 am

PHXCATS wrote:Fail yet again POM but you should be very used to it

Last season power 5.

USC-good fans
Ohio State-good fans
Oklahoma-good fans
Georgia-good fans
Clemson-good fans

Weird how that worked out. And yes all have had good fans for many years even in down times

Fans don't win conference titles good teams do.
Last 3 seasons power 5.

Texas-good fans avg. 92,778 last year
4-5, 3-6, 5-4 12-15
Nebraska-good fans avg. 89,798 last year
3-5, 6-3, 3-6 12-14
Tennessee-good fans avg. 95,779 last year
5-3, 4-4, 0-8 9-15
Arkansas-good fans avg. 63,224 last year
5-3, 3-5, 1-7 9-15

Summary: Three of the four teams have had a decline in wins from the previous season (save Texas with +2), still had fairly good attendance averages, and still shit the bed on Saturdays. Fans aren't allowed on the field so i can't grasp the idea that they win games. They "help" to win games to a certain extent but only about as good as a wet paper bag is to bricks. Just ask those Tennessee fans. We're payers not players.

Btw, seperate note. it was pretty full last week at Arizona Stadium against USC. I don't give a shit what the "official" records say. I was there with my own eyes and it was only off by 3500-4000.

PieceOfMeat · Post by **PieceOfMeat** » Sun Oct 07, 2018 1:48 am

PHXCATS wrote:Fail yet again POM but you should be very used to it

So you're putting forward the argument that fans win titles?

Yeah, we all know who failed here phoechina.

Well, we all (minus you) that is.

blackjacker · Post by **blackjacker** » Sun Oct 07, 2018 8:11 am

PHXCATS wrote:Fail yet again POM but you should be very used to it

Last season power 5.

USC-good fans
Ohio State-good fans
Oklahoma-good fans
Georgia-good fans
Clemson-good fans

Weird how that worked out. And yes all have had good fans for many years even in down times

Maybe we will have good fans someday when we have accomplished a sliver of what those teams have.

With no reason to believe championship level football is even possible here, the fans are always expecting disappointment.

PHXCATS · Post by **PHXCATS** » Sun Oct 07, 2018 9:39 am

PieceOfMeat wrote:
PHXCATS wrote:Fail yet again POM but you should be very used to it
So you're putting forward the argument that fans win titles?

Yeah, we all know who failed here phoechina.

Well, we all (minus you) that is.

Fans dont win titles but they help. They help the team win recruiting battles and in games. Our fans arent doing neither right now. Oh well.

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