Keeping Rodriguez: Pros, Cons, and Back of Envelope Math

cordera89 · Post by **cordera89** » Mon Nov 07, 2016 9:19 pm

This article just breaks my heart on the amount of sheer stupidly of what I have read.
Some of it i agree with but some of it I completely just disagree with it.
I'm just going to say this, He not going to fired after first losing season, It going to be wake up call to entire program, All i want is to see is improvement under him in Recruiting, Development, Managing the depth chart, Improving Offense and Defense etc. If their going to be a some position coach changing then make the changes. That all I want to see is improvement. All this buyout talk about how much the cost to just get rid of him It fucking BS.

The comment section is just worst because they don't fucking care because they want him gone. Show some damn pride to your football team. I don't care if their laughing stock of the conference or worst team in conference or The worst team in P5. We will bounce back from miserable season under RR.

http://www.azdesertswarm.com/2016/11/5/ ... s-and-cons" target="_blank

Bangkok Wildcat · Post by **Bangkok Wildcat** » Mon Nov 07, 2016 10:28 pm

I agree with you for the most part.....if he hadn't played around with the South Carolina gig last year I would be more of a supporter of his....but ever since he flirted with leaving us so soon, he signaled his true intentions and I have a hard time rallying behind him now.

Sucks for the other coaches, players, fans, etc. I just want a Coach that wants to be here and is committed to us (within reason of course) for at least 5-7 years or more. RR burnt a lot of goodwill last year IMHO and is now reaping what he's sown.

Do you think he let up on recruiting because he was planning on jumping ship last year? Or is he just a poor recruiter? Or are we really that cursed with injuries?

In any case, I wish people would keep it classy... .putting 'For Sale' signs in his yard and other 'Friday Night Lights' juvenile behavior doesn't sit well with me.

Bear Down.

azcat49 · Post by **azcat49** » Tue Nov 08, 2016 1:02 am

LOL at RR. Good riddance carpet bagger. You deserve every ounce of pain you are feeling.

Your players have now joined a lot of us fans who have QUIT ON YOU. I am curious what you don't agree with. That article was pretty factually based I thought.

Puerco · Post by **Puerco** » Tue Nov 08, 2016 2:45 am

That blog was fantastic. I was on the keep RR side of the fence, mostly due to the cost of buying him out, but this piece changed my mind. Thanks for sharing, cordera. Let's make this thing happen. RichRod needs to go NOW.

RazorsEdgeAZ · Post by **RazorsEdgeAZ** » Tue Nov 08, 2016 7:28 am

Much in that blog written in comments here in this Forum.

Unless RR's contract gets changed I would have to think December 2017 - March 2018 is the decision point. Liability with Coordinators contracts expire. Will be the cheapest $$$ liability point with RR until around 2019-2020. March 2018 RR gets vested with the remaining 50% from Retention Fund. Buyout spikes buyout back up to over $8 million again in March 2018.

Also as expected Byrne spending some of his popularity and community Trust Capital supporting RR (maybe buy time, salvage ticket buying). If you noticed he shared a "not about wins/losses RR support letter from a fan in his Wednesday Newsletter.

If RR not fired by March 2018 the buyout gets nearly as expensive again as it is right now. Guessing part of this equation is the Niya Butts approach. It's "cheaper" to keep RR here do the work for another season. Almost (not impossible, long odds) insurmountable odds RR could turnaround next years team that satisfies allowing another $3 million obligation be owed to him in March 2018 get triggered.

cordera89 · Post by **cordera89** » Tue Nov 08, 2016 9:26 am

Puerco wrote:That blog was fantastic. I was on the keep RR side of the fence, mostly due to the cost of buying him out, but this piece changed my mind. Thanks for sharing, cordera. Let's make this thing happen. RichRod needs to go NOW.

And this is where about to kill you, Really man, his first losing season and you still want him gone because not one fan candle a terrible season. Starting over with new staff is not going to solve it or firing him is not going to solve it. Just Because we hit a new low in year 5 doesn't mean we should just give it up and say Fuck you RR for causing this.

Spaceman Spiff · Post by **Spaceman Spiff** » Tue Nov 08, 2016 9:28 am

This season is as big a disaster as we could have. If he's retained, it isn't based on anything that happened on the field.

2 wins, one an esacpe against Grambling State and an increasingly embarassing series of beatdowns in the Pac.

prh · Post by **prh** » Tue Nov 08, 2016 9:46 am

cordera89 wrote:
Puerco wrote:That blog was fantastic. I was on the keep RR side of the fence, mostly due to the cost of buying him out, but this piece changed my mind. Thanks for sharing, cordera. Let's make this thing happen. RichRod needs to go NOW.
And this is where about to kill you, Really man, his first losing season and you still want him gone because not one fan candle a terrible season. Starting over with new staff is not going to solve it or firing him is not going to solve it. Just Because we hit a new low in year 5 doesn't mean we should just give it up and say Fuck you RR for causing this.

4 out of 5 losing conference records is much more relevant than overall record, with the scheduling that we've had during his tenure. Also, starting over with a new staff has a much higher probability of solving the problem than keeping him around. It's not even so much that it's one bad season, it's a downward trend line. Next season is not going to be much better than this one. There are not signs of turning it around with RR. Why wait until we've hit rock bottom 2 consecutive years to do what we know needs to be done?

CalStateTempe · Post by **CalStateTempe** » Tue Nov 08, 2016 9:50 am

cordera89 wrote:
Puerco wrote:That blog was fantastic. I was on the keep RR side of the fence, mostly due to the cost of buying him out, but this piece changed my mind. Thanks for sharing, cordera. Let's make this thing happen. RichRod needs to go NOW.
And this is where about to kill you, Really man, his first losing season and you still want him gone because not one fan candle a terrible season. Starting over with new staff is not going to solve it or firing him is not going to solve it. Just Because we hit a new low in year 5 doesn't mean we should just give it up and say Fuck you RR for causing this.

Why not becuase thst is exactly what happened?

Merkin · Post by **Merkin** » Tue Nov 08, 2016 9:52 am

prh wrote: 4 out of 5 losing conference records is much more relevant than overall record

Agree 100%. Scheduling Hawaii and Grambling, and would have lost to GSU if their QB didn't get hurt.

RichRod also had a losing conference record while at UM, and never did beat rivals MSU and tOSU.

Also has been mentioned constantly (by me esp.) 1-9 v. LA and 1-3 v. ASU, so combined 1-9 v. rivals at a Power 5 school.

If he can't beat ASU, and goes 1-4, he will lose the die hard fans.

cordera89 · Post by **cordera89** » Tue Nov 08, 2016 10:17 am

azcat49 wrote:LOL at RR. Good riddance carpet bagger. You deserve every ounce of pain you are feeling.

Your players have now joined a lot of us fans who have QUIT ON YOU. I am curious what you don't agree with. That article was pretty factually based I thought.

Their something along that line that say do you really want to start all over again with a new HC and staff because of one bad season in year five. (Arizona doesn't have a history of football success) just think about it, He been here for 5 years, 4 recruiting and the result turn in 8-5,8-5,10-4-7-6 and 2-7 currently. What does that say? Something Spike in 2015 season.

Merkin · Post by **Merkin** » Tue Nov 08, 2016 10:21 am

cordera89 wrote:
azcat49 wrote:LOL at RR. Good riddance carpet bagger. You deserve every ounce of pain you are feeling.

Your players have now joined a lot of us fans who have QUIT ON YOU. I am curious what you don't agree with. That article was pretty factually based I thought.
Their something along that line that say do you really want to start all over again with a new HC and staff because of one bad season in year five. (Arizona doesn't have a history of football success) just think about it, He been here for 5 years, 4 recruiting and the result turn in 8-5,8-5,10-4-7-6 and 2-7 currently. What does that say? Something Spike in 2015 season.

Says quit scheduling cupcakes to pad the wins.

What happened to one cupcake FCS, one midmajor, and one power 5 school?

Larry Smith had 6 straight seasons without a losing conference record.

Dick Tomey had 9 non-losing conference seasons out of 14.

cordera89 · Post by **cordera89** » Tue Nov 08, 2016 10:41 am

Merkin wrote:
prh wrote: 4 out of 5 losing conference records is much more relevant than overall record
Agree 100%. Scheduling Hawaii and Grambling, and would have lost to GSU if their QB didn't get hurt.

RichRod also had a losing conference record while at UM, and never did beat rivals MSU and tOSU.

Also has been mentioned constantly (by me esp.) 1-9 v. LA and 1-3 v. ASU, so combined 1-9 v. rivals at a Power 5 school.

If he can't beat ASU, and goes 1-4, he will lose the die hard fans.

If conference record mean something then should have all 4 losing season overall. Because I still see 4 winning season despite those 4 losing conference and that should not mean anything.

Do you think RR was going to beat Jim Tressel at Ohio State at any given point in three year at Michigan if he would of had more time to build the team his ways.

Again Does this have to define of why we still care of who we lose the most too. I don't care about losing to USC & UCLA, Those are game we don't expect to win every year. Then TCUP game were everyone doesn't want to admitted it but were not winning this game . Sure Graham is lucky to have a 3 game to 1 against RR and about to make 4 game to 1. He not going to lose me if he lose this game, But he will lose guys because you cant accept defeat.

Merkin · Post by **Merkin** » Tue Nov 08, 2016 10:54 am

cordera89 wrote:I don't care about losing to USC & UCLA

The road to the Rose Bowl goes threw LA. Gotta beat those teams if you want to win the South.

I have been waiting since I was a freshman in 1981 for a Rose Bowl trip!

Harvey Specter · Post by **Harvey Specter** » Tue Nov 08, 2016 11:02 am

The key quotes from that article for me....

"Rodriguez fans that are a little smug, and a lot illogical, in their dismissal of the people calling for Rodriguez's firing."

"As every other class fill up with the top unsigned talent Arizona's ranking is going to fall. Unless Arizona closes really strong they are going to finish somewhere in the #25-30 range." - I think this is overly optimistic... we have had similar classes before that I believed finished ranked in the 35-40 range. And that assumes the class stays intact

"The only stat that matters is Pac-12 win percentage. That is the only reasonable approximation of apples to apples across time."

"This is the Mike Stoops case. When Byrne fired Stoops he cited Stoops's losing streak against Power 5 and Pac-12 teams specifically. On average Stoops was fine, you have to give him a pass on the years he spent picking up after Mackovic, but Byrne felt the losing streak against Power 5 competition was indicative of the direction of the program. If he holds Rodriguez to anything near the same standard then Rodriguez should be unemployed. Rodriguez went 3-6 in the Pac-12 last year. He is 3-12 in the last two years and 0-6 this year. He is likely to finish the season 0-9. That is totally unacceptable. If you went 0-for the conference at Kansas in your 5th year you would be fired."

RR will not be fired and he should not be... given the expense involved and the risk and costs of starting over. But if next year does not show marked improvement and recruiting trajectory - I think his fate will be sealed. Many of the die hard fans have already been lost... and attendance will be abysmal short of a dramatic turnaround.

EDIT: I just perused through the comments... naturally it is only die hards posting in a message board, but I did not see a single one showing much support. If Byrne follows the boards he has to be dining on Maalox...

Alieberman · Post by **Alieberman** » Tue Nov 08, 2016 11:12 am

We are closing the gap

scumdevils86 · Post by **scumdevils86** » Tue Nov 08, 2016 11:15 am

Can you imagine if we had played a power 5 school instead of Hawaii or Grambling this year? We could have been looking 0-12 right in the face.

RazorsEdgeAZ · Post by **RazorsEdgeAZ** » Tue Nov 08, 2016 11:33 am

Why in the Hell did UA make RR one of the top paid coaches in P12 couple years ago? I can't get myself to think it was to go to a Bowl game but have majority P12 losing records. Or Booster offer him Millions worth in a Retention Fund? RR still getting raises every year. God I hope UA Admin not that complacent. Or the new term "Settling" because it's UA and UA is a basketball school. Limited strong Football history.

If it is just tell us fans that was the expectation all along.

My real concern is not even the losing conference records or this off the rails season. That's just the end result. The outcome of something else. My main concern is how in Hell did this staff evaluate and offer so many misses? How in Hell as many articles outline the talent level on this roster as not P12 caliber? Undersized STILL? OKG's?

When playing other P12 teams, theirs been a talent discrepancy with those teams with RR (staff) recruits. How did they get offered? They must have thought they were P12 ready or capable or developed into. How does that get fixed? Offense not working well either.

BearDown89 · Post by **BearDown89** » Tue Nov 08, 2016 11:40 am

Speaking of Jim Tressel . . . or should we be done with Big10 castoffs and retreads?

scumdevils86 · Post by **scumdevils86** » Tue Nov 08, 2016 11:44 am

What I don't get is how the last 3 classes were all ranked top 50 and on the field it looks like we have bottom 20 FBS level talent.

pokinmik · Post by **pokinmik** » Tue Nov 08, 2016 12:11 pm

scumdevils86 wrote:Can you imagine if we had played a power 5 school instead of Hawaii or Grambling this year? We could have been looking 0-12 right in the face.

Haha yea, or even if Hawaii was average and Grambling's QB didn't get hurt.

RR is done. This team is the definition of a dumpster fire and it starts at the top. Byrne needs to decide if he wants to spend the money now and rebuild (which is absolutely necessary) orrrr...wait another embarrassing year, save a few million up front, and completely lose any program support that is left (probably costing more than the few million saved). We are f*cked either way so might as well rebuild.

BearDown89 · Post by **BearDown89** » Tue Nov 08, 2016 12:14 pm

scumdevils86 wrote:What I don't get is how the last 3 classes were all ranked top 50 and on the field it looks like we have bottom 20 FBS level talent.

Terrible evaluations to begin with and absolute failure to develop and coach 'em up thereafter. And total ignorance of what it takes to compete in the Pac-12.

Merkin · Post by **Merkin** » Tue Nov 08, 2016 12:43 pm

RazorsEdgeAZ wrote:Why in the Hell did UA make RR one of the top paid coaches in P12 couple years ago?

Look at the deal the UA gave Ann Hart.

azcat49 · Post by **azcat49** » Tue Nov 08, 2016 12:46 pm

cordera89 wrote:
azcat49 wrote:LOL at RR. Good riddance carpet bagger. You deserve every ounce of pain you are feeling.

Your players have now joined a lot of us fans who have QUIT ON YOU. I am curious what you don't agree with. That article was pretty factually based I thought.
Their something along that line that say do you really want to start all over again with a new HC and staff because of one bad season in year five. (Arizona doesn't have a history of football success) just think about it, He been here for 5 years, 4 recruiting and the result turn in 8-5,8-5,10-4-7-6 and 2-7 currently. What does that say? Something Spike in 2015 season.

Oh hell yes, in a heart beat. This is year 5 and these are all his guys. He has failed as miserably as possible in building a program here. His development sucks, his payers have sub level PAC talent. Most have no confidence in him.

RazorsEdgeAZ · Post by **RazorsEdgeAZ** » Tue Nov 08, 2016 12:47 pm

Merkin wrote:
RazorsEdgeAZ wrote:Why in the Hell did UA make RR one of the top paid coaches in P12 couple years ago?
Look at the deal the UA gave Ann Hart.

Touché

Sid · Post by **Sid** » Tue Nov 08, 2016 12:50 pm

BearDown89 wrote:
scumdevils86 wrote:What I don't get is how the last 3 classes were all ranked top 50 and on the field it looks like we have bottom 20 FBS level talent.
Terrible evaluations to begin with and absolute failure to develop and coach 'em up thereafter. And total ignorance of what it takes to compete in the Pac-12.

That 4th and 1 near the goal line kind of speaks to this. Why in the world would you run JJ Taylor up the middle with our small OLine? I guess looking at past HS film and how his former HS coach best utilized his skills is overrated.....

Fuck it, run him up the gut and see what happens rather than giving him the ball in space and let him do what he does best.

Speaks volumes....

Merkin · Post by **Merkin** » Tue Nov 08, 2016 12:52 pm

Sid wrote:
BearDown89 wrote:
scumdevils86 wrote:What I don't get is how the last 3 classes were all ranked top 50 and on the field it looks like we have bottom 20 FBS level talent.
Terrible evaluations to begin with and absolute failure to develop and coach 'em up thereafter. And total ignorance of what it takes to compete in the Pac-12.
That 4th and 1 near the goal line kind of speaks to this. Why in the world would you run JJ Taylor up the middle with our small OLine? I guess looking at past HS film and how his former HS coach best utilized his skills is overrated.....

Fuck it, run him up the gut and see what happens rather than giving him the ball in space and let him do what he does best.

Speaks volumes....

Stoops did the same thing with Antolin. WTF dude? Have EMFM as a fullback yet run the smallest guy on the team up the middle on short and goal?

WildcatStunner · Post by **WildcatStunner** » Tue Nov 08, 2016 1:11 pm

The losing conference record is one of the reasons he should be canned. But this right here tells me all I need to know:

Our offensive guru is trending the wrong way in a hurry.

azcat49 · Post by **azcat49** » Tue Nov 08, 2016 1:30 pm

If RR thinks it's bad now (the heat of the fans) wait until he goes 0-9 and losses to ASSU at home or the 4th time in 5 years. Going into that game he will be so tight you couldn't get a red hot poker up his ass.

And you have to wonder what type of conversations GB will have as he walks around the mall. I know if he runs into me that I would not be shy about the situation. Selling hope is a tough thing and it's not like this incoming class will really make mush of a difference next year

WildcatStunner · Post by **WildcatStunner** » Tue Nov 08, 2016 1:55 pm

I just realized the picture didn't post. It was a graph showing that since we started conference play, we have scored less in each game. Not a good sign for a coach who is an offensive genius.

Merkin · Post by **Merkin** » Tue Nov 08, 2016 2:03 pm

RichRod did say he was going to look at different offenses in the off season.

But then again, he said the same thing about defense, and still rushed 3 75% of the time v. WSU with very poor results.

RazorsEdgeAZ · Post by **RazorsEdgeAZ** » Tue Nov 08, 2016 2:14 pm

Matchups always a big deal in games.... But great graph. Many hoping new Defensive hires a solution, but that hopeful solution doesn't speak to the Offense side of the ball and [in]ability to evaluate, develop and recruit (OL, WR, RB).

WildcatStunner · Post by **WildcatStunner** » Tue Nov 08, 2016 2:49 pm

Thanks for posting the graph Merk!

I agree with RazorsEdge, the evaluations and development of O line and QB have been concerning. I gave Rich Rod a little pass on RB cause Nick Wilson is pretty good if he could stay healthy and the Bradford situation was one that was bad all around. What I do not give him a pass for is running Samjie at RB when Green was recruiting to play RB.

azcat49 · Post by **azcat49** » Tue Nov 08, 2016 3:05 pm

Or the fact he starts two walk on's on the OLine (DeBeer and Boetcher) and two on the Dline along with two former Stoops recruits. He is about 0 for both lines in 5 freaking years. How bad is that?

His go to wide outs are a guy we stole from Marshall and a transfer from South Florida. The roster is littered with 2 star guys that had MWC offers. The guy has a smattering of talent but it will take 3 solid classes to dig out of this hole

Gladiator Cat · Post by **Gladiator Cat** » Tue Nov 08, 2016 3:37 pm

Guys the painful and hardcore truth is this is a ghastly replay of the Wackovic years without the player mutiny. I know RR treats the player well, but its clear for all to see that this team has mailed it in. Stick a fork in it.

A final season loss at the hands of the garbage heap up north to finish the season will be the turd icing on the shit cake.

The lack of overall talent on the roster is so stunning it is difficult to even put in words. This isn't just about injuries although there is a percentage of merit to that equation. This current roster is the ultimate talley of massive, massive evaluation misses and the talent pool being drawn from were from low level talent from the get go. A toxic failure of a blueprint and disadvantaged recruiting cocktail it there ever was one.

My goodness, I know hindsight is a flashy meaningless word most of the time but, there were tell-tale signs each year exposing a trend that RichRod and his staffs inability to close the deal on any really talented players outside of just a handful.

I know that folks have started to wise up, but make no mistake, we are staring down the barrel of a 2-3 year rebuilding job no matter who is at the helm. That's how bad this situation is for the cats.

The talent level is so bad some of these guys may only be Pima JC good if honesty was in play when calling a spade a spade.

I wanted RR to work out in the worst way, but it now appears the much of the unflattering baggage that has followed RR around for years may actually have a major overlay of truth to it.

I still think Greg Byrne is the best and very talented, competent and qualified. I'm putting my faith in him to turn this around, but a quick fix is not riding to the rescue.

We're all going to have to go through football hell to get to heaven over the next couple of years. Sigh!

prh · Post by **prh** » Tue Nov 08, 2016 4:20 pm

Harvey Specter wrote:But if next year does not show marked improvement and recruiting trajectory - I think his fate will be sealed.

Here's my line of thinking, wonder if this is what the others are really feeling:

I think that looking at our roster, recruiting, and player development, it seems highly doubtful that we're going to see much improvement next year. The defense might be a little better with more scheme experience, but that will probably be offset by the lack of talented bodies (I feel like I've seen that movie before...)

The offense can't get any worse, although JJ's return will help. However, with what we've seen from our quarterbacks, I just can't see any/much improvement coming. (I'm not going to expect anything out of BB.)

So really, we could wait another year to fire him, which seems like a foregone conclusion at this point. And if that's the case, then we'd be much better off doing it now ($$ aside).

And lastly, wanting to fire the coach doesn't mean we aren't supporting the program. Hell, the fact we are even talking about football at all right now shows continued support by us. The program is more about the school than the figurehead. RR goes elsewhere, I'm not cheering for that team. A different person has a headset and a block A on their polo? Yeah I'm always going to support that team.

azcat49 · Post by **azcat49** » Tue Nov 08, 2016 4:29 pm

Put me in the Anu camp. I think the Dawkins experience has shown me enough that he has not developed into a reliable passer needed at the PAC level. I think if Anu can find the guts to tote it 10 times and with a healthy Wilson and JJ we should be able to be competitive to win 3 games in conference and and maybe we beat Houston to get to 6 wins. To me that is the best scenario.

The biggest issue is the absolute lack of talent across the roster. We have pieces but man we suck across both lines. Hopefully Eletise and maybe Walker get good and we can find some decent tackles and a decent center as we are a far cry from the Baucus, Ebelle and Gurolla days and none of them were even all conference.

Not sure if you saw what Hansen said to day but it was telling. In the 80's Smith had 31 all conference players. Tomey had 29 in the 90's. RR has had 2 in 5 years. That should get him fired. Some scribe needs to ask him about that. Is it evaluation or development. Either way it is on him

Merkin · Post by **Merkin** » Tue Nov 08, 2016 5:25 pm

Anu is our only hope of beating ASU with their piss poor passing defense.

RichRod just needs to keep a "no lateral" rule in place, or be benched.

azpenguin · Post by **azpenguin** » Wed Nov 09, 2016 1:23 am

Well, while it's definitely not a popular opinion, I'll state it again: RichRod is not on the hot seat this year. Next year, definitely, but not this year.

The buyout is too much right now. People want that new indoor facility, they're working on McKale, they're looking at raising money to renovate the stadium. $8 million is a huge chunk of money when you're trying to do that. So they're going to give it another year, see if the changes in recruiting with the new coaches are paying dividends, and go from there. I also don't believe this is a good year to go coach shopping. It's a seller's market out there. Right now there decent odds on Texas being open, although I believe Strong may be able to keep his job. LSU may keep Coach O, but that's 50/50. There's a good chance Oregon will cut Helfrich loose. I wouldn't be surprised if UCLA was needing a coach soon. Houston may be hiring. Norte Dame may be as well. The coaching carousel looks like it's going to be insane again this year and the good coaches will get snapped up, placing a premium on the others.

I think the bigger question is what does RR have to do to save his job next year. I put the over-under at eight wins, including ASU. The fear obviously would be that he doesnjustnwell enough to keep the job and can't sustain success, but I think that if he succeeds next year it'll carry over.

Still weird to think that this team was a few points from starting 4-0. I think that had Wilson/Taylor been able to stay healthy (and if Bradford wasn't an idiot) that this team would be 6-2 or 5-3 so far. Without a stud RB, though, this offense is neutered. Which means the defense spends a lot more time on the field until they crack.

cordera89 · Post by **cordera89** » Wed Nov 09, 2016 8:56 am

azpenguin wrote:Well, while it's definitely not a popular opinion, I'll state it again: RichRod is not on the hot seat this year. Next year, definitely, but not this year.

The buyout is too much right now. People want that new indoor facility, they're working on McKale, they're looking at raising money to renovate the stadium. $8 million is a huge chunk of money when you're trying to do that. So they're going to give it another year, see if the changes in recruiting with the new coaches are paying dividends, and go from there. I also don't believe this is a good year to go coach shopping. It's a seller's market out there. Right now there decent odds on Texas being open, although I believe Strong may be able to keep his job. LSU may keep Coach O, but that's 50/50. There's a good chance Oregon will cut Helfrich loose. I wouldn't be surprised if UCLA was needing a coach soon. Houston may be hiring. Norte Dame may be as well. The coaching carousel looks like it's going to be insane again this year and the good coaches will get snapped up, placing a premium on the others.

I think the bigger question is what does RR have to do to save his job next year. I put the over-under at eight wins, including ASU. The fear obviously would be that he doesnjustnwell enough to keep the job and can't sustain success, but I think that if he succeeds next year it'll carry over.

Still weird to think that this team was a few points from starting 4-0. I think that had Wilson/Taylor been able to stay healthy (and if Bradford wasn't an idiot) that this team would be 6-2 or 5-3 so far. Without a stud RB, though, this offense is neutered. Which means the defense spends a lot more time on the field until they crack.

So your predicting that 8 wins next season for him to keep his job. Well I would say 5-7 or 6-6. He has improve in between those two. But before that going to happen, Offseason, what changes is he going to make. Is going to make change on Offense staff and scheme change and can he make that improvement. Is the Defense going to improve in year 2 under yates, Are we going to have a healthy team next season. 8 wins and victory over ASU is not going cut it. Like I said I rather lower my expectation to at least improve from 2-10 to 5-7 or 6-6 with an improving category in Offense, Defense and Special team. Recruiting and Player development and Managing need to improve.

whatisee · Post by **whatisee** » Wed Nov 09, 2016 9:39 am

Rich Rod keeps his job. Wins 9 games next year and leaves for another job after programs come calling again.

Offense should be nasty next year even losing Grant and Neal. And if we go injury free along the key positions we could win 10.

scumdevils86 · Post by **scumdevils86** » Wed Nov 09, 2016 9:42 am

whatisee wrote:Rich Rod keeps his job. Wins 9 games next year and leaves for another job after programs come calling again.

Offense should be nasty next year even losing Grant and Neal. And if we go injury free along the key positions we could win 10.

wat? is this sarcasm?

whatisee · Post by **whatisee** » Wed Nov 09, 2016 9:51 am

scumdevils86 wrote:
whatisee wrote:Rich Rod keeps his job. Wins 9 games next year and leaves for another job after programs come calling again.

Offense should be nasty next year even losing Grant and Neal. And if we go injury free along the key positions we could win 10.
wat? is this sarcasm?

Not at all. The sky isn't falling in my world. Last year it was the defense that had injuries, and the offense got us wins. This year it was the offense with injuries, and our defense is a transitional phase right now and can't seem to get it yet.

It all starts with the Offensive Line for next year, but the pieces are there. Hopefully adding Walker & Elieste the starting line. With healthy Soloman, Wilson, Taylor, Dawkins, Tate, Brown, Poindexter the offense should roll.

Chicat · Post by **Chicat** » Wed Nov 09, 2016 9:58 am

If we win 6 games, I'll be seriously impressed.

scumdevils86 · Post by **scumdevils86** » Wed Nov 09, 2016 10:00 am

I'll be blown away next year if we win 6 games

Merkin · Post by **Merkin** » Wed Nov 09, 2016 10:02 am

Same here, 6 wins is quite amazing with these players, and lack of development.

New defensive scheme or not, you still have too small and too slow of players.

prh · Post by **prh** » Wed Nov 09, 2016 10:03 am

Solomon was healthy to start this year and still awful. That's the thing, the offense is going to have to succeed despite being one dimensional next year, unless Dawkins makes a huge leap (and stays healthy) or Tate makes an even bigger leap. I don't an improved line is going to be enough for that, hardly anyone can succeed being one dimensional.

pokinmik · Post by **pokinmik** » Wed Nov 09, 2016 10:07 am

Solomon was good initially because he was so young you could chalk it up to learning curve and bank on him improving. But, he never improved. He actually became worse after getting banged up. And his decision making is laughably bad. He does things no QB should do.

azgreg · Post by **azgreg** » Wed Nov 09, 2016 10:08 am

Here's the returning O-line:

50 Josh McCauley OL 6-3 266 FR
51 Donald Reiter LS 5-10 254 FR
53 Jon Jacobs OL 6-4 298 FR
54 Bryson Cain OT 6-4 276 FR
55 Levi Walton OL 6-3 290 SO
56 Nick Reinhardt LS 6-1 240 SO
58 Layth Friekh OL 6-5 282 JR
63 Keenan Walker OL 6-5 283 FR
64 Nathan Eldridge OL 6-3 290 FR
67 Gerhard de Beer OL 6-7 314 JR
69 Christian Boettcher OL 6-2 285 SO
74 Alex Kosinski OL 6-4 291 FR
75 Michael Eletise OT 6-3 318 FR
76 Cody Creason OL 6-4 294 FR
77 Harper Sherman OL 6-5 298 FR
78 Jacob Alsadek OL 6-7 315 JR

Puerco · Post by **Puerco** » Wed Nov 09, 2016 11:24 am

Cordera, I simply don't understand why you think a 7-6 season is acceptable when we go 3-6 in conference and we have one -- ONE! -- win over a respectable opponent. Because that's what happened last year. And this year is a huge, fucking crater of a season compared to last year. So no, it's not just one bad year. It's a whole collection of them with a steep downward trend and no light at the end.

Why is that even remotely acceptable to you? Unless you're an ASU fan?

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