Bear Down Wildcats

Let's just call it off. What's the point? Our program is just a disgrace. They don't bring good attention to the university. suck up lots of dough, and make our school look ridiculous.

What about AZGreg Crackin' em?

dovecanyoncat wrote: ↑Sat Nov 21, 2020 9:14 pm What about AZGreg Crackin' em?

A highpoint of the night.

Shit. Too much bourbon and depression after the first three quarters last night. Can't figure out now how to delete this post.

Do you really want it deleted? I say keep it. May have to revisit the sentiment at some point.

Can't say he is wrong. Program is an embarrassment. One of the worst teams in a P5 conference.

I haven't watched a single play since the debacle in Hawaii last year. But I do come to all the game threads, just for AZgreg's posts.

Chicat wrote: ↑Sun Nov 22, 2020 12:12 pm Do you really want it deleted? I say keep it. May have to revisit the sentiment at some point.

Haha. Yeah. Maybe this Saturday night.

I get the sentiments - but then I saw a replay of the '92 game against #1 UW yesterday and think, well, maybe this program can be resurrected at some point.

Just hope it's in my lifetime.

We need to stop hiring retreads that failed and bigger programs, and are now at the backside of their career, and hire someone from a smaller program on the rise. Smith came to us from Tulane and Tomey came to us from Hawaii. Two most successful Arizona coaches since we joined the PAC. Mac got fired from Texas, and was a complete embarrassment at Arizona, and Sumlin got fired from TAMU, and isn't far behind Mac. Only RichRod was a retread that almost worked, and he probably deserved another year at Michigan. The team he built in Ann Arbor won 10 games the year RR left. And RR would likely still be in Tucson if he didn't have is off-field issues that were too big to ignore.

Utah hired Urban Meyer from Bowling Green, and Meyer only stayed two years in SLC, but left the Utes in much better shape, and with Whittingham at the helm. That's the model we need to follow. Heck, I'd even give a top assistant from another program another look. Stoops was a good hire, and got us very close to the Rose Bowl, but he couldn't get out of his own way on the sidelines. Stoops with a better demeanor during games and maybe we have someone who can win here. But another retread who failed at a bigger school already? No thank you. It's already failed multiple times in Tucson, and it would be insane to try it again.

The most depressing part for me is that with Covid's impact on our budget, I doubt we can hire a new coach.

So, we're stuck with a guy where the selling point was being a better recruiter than RichRod. A guy who then has actually recruited worse than RichRod and gone from 5 wins to 4 wins to the point our talent level is nonexistent and I'd be surprised if we won a game this year.

It's frustrating because I have always felt this should have been obvious with the way Sumlin went out at aTm. At least RichRod had Michigan improving and you could make a case he got shafted too soon. Sumlin clearly had the Aggies on the wrong track and we gave him a big contract with a massive buyout.

What if I told you that Arizona had all the proof and documentation it would need to be able to fire Sumlin with cause, but the admin doesn't have the balls to do it, because god forbid it would be admitting that they got the hire wrong?

Wouldn't surprise me. The bigger question is why did Heeke get an extension? Are they just waiting for the bribery case to be finalized to get a new AD?

84Cat wrote: ↑Mon Nov 23, 2020 10:15 am Wouldn't surprise me. The bigger question is why did Heeke get an extension? Are they just waiting for the bribery case to be finalized to get a new AD?

When you've got a president that wants to run every thing himself then having a lackey stooge at AD is preferred.

ChooChooCat wrote: ↑Mon Nov 23, 2020 10:10 am What if I told you that Arizona had all the proof and documentation it would need to be able to fire Sumlin with cause, but the admin doesn't have the balls to do it, because god forbid it would be admitting that they got the hire wrong?

I'd say that sounds like the commerical for the worst 30 for 30 ever made...at least for an Arizona fan.

ChooChooCat wrote: ↑Mon Nov 23, 2020 10:10 am What if I told you that Arizona had all the proof and documentation it would need to be able to fire Sumlin with cause, but the admin doesn't have the balls to do it, because god forbid it would be admitting that they got the hire wrong?

Drinking on the job? I recall his drinking issues at aTm were well known.

Merkin wrote: ↑Mon Nov 23, 2020 11:29 am Drinking on the job? I recall his drinking issues at aTm were well known.

It's all about the drinking. Sad part is he's attempted things to help, but unfortunately it hasn't worked.

Gonna be hella fucked up when they have to fire him for performance and they then have to shell out for his buyout.

Maybe he’ll make it easy on Heeke and pull a Sark.

ChooChooCat wrote: ↑Mon Nov 23, 2020 11:49 am

Merkin wrote: ↑Mon Nov 23, 2020 11:29 am Drinking on the job? I recall his drinking issues at aTm were well known.

It's all about the drinking. Sad part is he's attempted things to help, but unfortunately it hasn't worked.

He had the nickname "Rumlin" for years before aTm let him go, and that was widely known enough that I'm pulling that from message board randos.

I have sympathy for Sumlin. Addiction sucks. I lack sympathy for Heeke's decision to bring him on.

Doubly frustrating, we had Ken Niumatalolo in the bag, and he went 11-2 at Navy and won AAC coach of the year in 2019. He's also about as straight an arrow as it gets off the field. So depressing.

Spaceman Spiff wrote: ↑Mon Nov 23, 2020 12:03 pm

ChooChooCat wrote: ↑Mon Nov 23, 2020 11:49 am

Merkin wrote: ↑Mon Nov 23, 2020 11:29 am Drinking on the job? I recall his drinking issues at aTm were well known.

It's all about the drinking. Sad part is he's attempted things to help, but unfortunately it hasn't worked.

He had the nickname "Rumlin" for years before aTm let him go, and that was widely known enough that I'm pulling that from message board randos.

I have sympathy for Sumlin. Addiction sucks. I lack sympathy for Heeke's decision to bring him on.

Doubly frustrating, we had Ken Niumatalolo in the bag, and he went 11-2 at Navy and won AAC coach of the year in 2019. He's also about as straight an arrow as it gets off the field. So depressing.

Worst part is Robbins/Heeke knew about it too, it was all part of the vetting process. They hired him anyways.

No question have sympathy for Sumlin, he's not a bad person, and addiction is a motha.

ChooChooCat wrote: ↑Mon Nov 23, 2020 12:23 pm

Spaceman Spiff wrote: ↑Mon Nov 23, 2020 12:03 pm

ChooChooCat wrote: ↑Mon Nov 23, 2020 11:49 am

Merkin wrote: ↑Mon Nov 23, 2020 11:29 am Drinking on the job? I recall his drinking issues at aTm were well known.

It's all about the drinking. Sad part is he's attempted things to help, but unfortunately it hasn't worked.

He had the nickname "Rumlin" for years before aTm let him go, and that was widely known enough that I'm pulling that from message board randos.

I have sympathy for Sumlin. Addiction sucks. I lack sympathy for Heeke's decision to bring him on.

Doubly frustrating, we had Ken Niumatalolo in the bag, and he went 11-2 at Navy and won AAC coach of the year in 2019. He's also about as straight an arrow as it gets off the field. So depressing.

Worst part is Robbins/Heeke knew about it too, it was all part of the vetting process. They hired him anyways.

No question have sympathy for Sumlin, he's not a bad person, and addiction is a motha.

I would argue the worst part is hiring him with an insane buyout. I mean, I could overlook hiring someone who just got fired after a slide into mediocrity, was regarded as a poor x's and o's coach and had a drinking problem a little if it was a light or no guarantees deal.

Instead, we gave him a contract with a huge buyout that all but guarantees he sees a 4th year here, if not 5th and 6th.

I remember people though RichRod was killing attendance. We may well enter next year coming off a winless year, low end Pac recruiting class and retaining the coach who gave us that. I expect fewer fans to care at that point than people at the restaurant cared that Dodgson was there in Jurassic Park.

Spaceman Spiff wrote: ↑Mon Nov 23, 2020 12:40 pm I remember people though RichRod was killing attendance.

When Khalil Tate was the most exciting player in college football in October of 2017, the Cats were on a 3 game winning streak, and had #15 Wazzu coming into Tucson.

The Cats drew 42,822. That's when I realized the RichRod era was over.

I doubt Sumlin will ever draw 42,822 the rest of his career, at UA or anyplace.

Merkin wrote: ↑Mon Nov 23, 2020 2:59 pm

Spaceman Spiff wrote: ↑Mon Nov 23, 2020 12:40 pm I remember people though RichRod was killing attendance.

When Khalil Tate was the most exciting player in college football in October of 2017, the Cats were on a 3 game winning streak, and had #15 Wazzu coming into Tucson.

The Cats drew 42,822. That's when I realized the RichRod era was over.

I doubt Sumlin will ever draw 42,822 the rest of his career, at UA or anyplace.

I think the lesson from that is we shouldn't assume it can't get worse. I regularly preach the value of not assuming a successful hiring process when it comes to people who are dissatisfied with Sean Miller.

Yeah, Arizona basketball has a lot more assets...but it's so easy to think the grass is greener with the new guy.

Give me them dice.

ChooChooCat wrote: ↑Mon Nov 23, 2020 12:23 pm Worst part is Robbins/Heeke knew about it too, it was all part of the vetting process. They hired him anyways.

So they hired him knowing he had a drinking problem, but don't want to fire him with cause because God forbid they admit they fucked up?

Geez forget getting rid of Sumlin, we need to dump Robbins and Heeke first. They'll just screw up the next football hire, and Lord knows what awful hire they'll eventually get for basketball. But it doesn't sound like either will be on the chopping block anytime soon, so we're pretty fucked for now. Great.

Honestly. This program does not reflect well on our university. If we can't compete at all, not even on a close to respectable level, why not just eliminate our football program?

Told you you didn’t want to delete this thread.

It can always get worse.

Chicat wrote: ↑Sat Dec 12, 2020 12:12 pm Told you you didn’t want to delete this thread.

It can always get worse.

Yep, you were right. But can it get worse from here? Holy shit.

That was a winless team that pounded us last night.

Just wait until coaches start punching each other on the sideline .... again.

I am certainly one for firing the entire UA football leadership team and not necessarily filling the positions until we get the absolute right hire, a hot young head coach at a smaller program. Not that anyone will be able to get any major recruits to this disaster of a program.

I wonder if we're finally at the point where we would consider trying some outside the box ideas.

AzCatFan2 wrote: ↑Mon Nov 23, 2020 8:39 am We need to stop hiring retreads that failed and bigger programs, and are now at the backside of their career, and hire someone from a smaller program on the rise. Smith came to us from Tulane and Tomey came to us from Hawaii. Two most successful Arizona coaches since we joined the PAC. Mac got fired from Texas, and was a complete embarrassment at Arizona, and Sumlin got fired from TAMU, and isn't far behind Mac. Only RichRod was a retread that almost worked, and he probably deserved another year at Michigan. The team he built in Ann Arbor won 10 games the year RR left. And RR would likely still be in Tucson if he didn't have is off-field issues that were too big to ignore.

Utah hired Urban Meyer from Bowling Green, and Meyer only stayed two years in SLC, but left the Utes in much better shape, and with Whittingham at the helm. That's the model we need to follow. Heck, I'd even give a top assistant from another program another look. Stoops was a good hire, and got us very close to the Rose Bowl, but he couldn't get out of his own way on the sidelines. Stoops with a better demeanor during games and maybe we have someone who can win here. But another retread who failed at a bigger school already? No thank you. It's already failed multiple times in Tucson, and it would be insane to try it again.

I dont see your point in this argument. Did smith or Tomey kept Arizona consistent on Regulars basic. Smith wasn't a world beater during his time. Sure he was winning 8-9 game a year under NCAA Violation And did Tomey kept that consistent winning onward despite him being school winningest coach. How many Rose bowl did he win during 16 year stretch. How many 10-12 wins season did he have during that 16 year stretch. How many conference title did he outright win during 16 year stretch. Tomey will go down as greatest UA HC in history but he was consistent. Between Those two, they weren't world beater at UA.

Mac im not going to say nothing on him. Stoops? for you to say he was a good hire? That only because were he came from Oklahoma as their DC and good one too. But for 7 season under Stoops which everyone till this day still riding his cocktails on his recruiting and amount of Player he NFL that only thing he had going for him but Did it translate into hmmm I dont know top ten recruiting class every year? Did that translate into Top 25 finish every year? Did it translate 10-12 wins every year? Did it translate to a Pac 10 conference title or Rose bowl appearance? Please all he had to do was win that one game and we lost. He struggle with Talent.

RR well during 2011 he was out of coaching after being fire from Michigan and ready to prove himself he can still coach and after Stoops firing mid season Byrnes made that choice to Hired RR which was good. Now i dont care about his Conference Record, I dont care about his record against ASU Nor do i not care on his Recruiting ranking after all that He had 5 winning season out of 6 year, 10 wins season for the first time since 98, He won the school first outright Conference/Division Championship, School First PAC 12 Title Game Appearance and BCS bowl game since 93. Funny thing about it is he did it less talent and won consistent despite being back to back 8 win, a 10 win, 7 wins, 3 wins and 7 wins. This was suppose to be Stoops doing this

Dont get me started on the Allegation that led to his Firing because my opinion it was BS.

Sumlin hired wasn't a mistake or bad. Timing was wrong after he got let go from A&M.

Only thing Sumlin screw up on was he mismanage RR rosters and three season under him. wow 3 straight losing season.

Tl;dr

Not sure that Tomey was better than Smith. Smith went to USC after UA, Tomey to SJSU when fired/quit.

The UA was also a football school when Smith was coach. I remember that Notre Dame game like it was last week.

Merkin wrote: ↑Sat Dec 12, 2020 1:42 pm Not sure that Tomey was better than Smith. Smith went to USC after UA, Tomey to SJSU when fired/quit.

The UA was also a football school when Smith was coach. I remember that Notre Dame game like it was last week.

True, but what if Tomey left after 1993 or 1998? Might have been a different story. Conversely, what if Smith stayed at UofA? And frankly, what did he do at USC with all of those resources available to him?

ByJoveByJingle wrote: ↑Sat Dec 12, 2020 2:08 pm

Merkin wrote: ↑Sat Dec 12, 2020 1:42 pm Not sure that Tomey was better than Smith. Smith went to USC after UA, Tomey to SJSU when fired/quit.

The UA was also a football school when Smith was coach. I remember that Notre Dame game like it was last week.

True, but what if Tomey left after 1993 or 1998? Might have been a different story. Conversely, what if Smith stayed at UofA? And frankly, what did he do at USC with all of those resources available to him?

1 Rose Bowl win, 2 Rose Bowl losses. Only won one bowl game in 6 years. (1-5)

Merkin wrote: ↑Sat Dec 12, 2020 1:42 pm Not sure that Tomey was better than Smith. Smith went to USC after UA, Tomey to SJSU when fired/quit.

The UA was also a football school when Smith was coach. I remember that Notre Dame game like it was last week.

Not only that but Smith coached the UofA through the post Tony Mason years and a 2 year NCAA investigation that resulted in 2 more years of probation. It was very difficult to recruit and Smith kept us competitive through all of it. He was incredible at finding under the radar talent and developing it. His teams were always ready to play and he loved to beat up on ASU.

Chicat wrote: ↑Sun Nov 22, 2020 12:12 pm Do you really want it deleted? I say keep it. May have to revisit the sentiment at some point.

Well, this post wound up aging well.

Spaceman Spiff wrote: ↑Wed Dec 23, 2020 9:28 am

Chicat wrote: ↑Sun Nov 22, 2020 12:12 pm Do you really want it deleted? I say keep it. May have to revisit the sentiment at some point.

Well, this post wound up aging well.

It can always get worse.

Chicat wrote: ↑Wed Dec 23, 2020 9:30 am

Spaceman Spiff wrote: ↑Wed Dec 23, 2020 9:28 am

Chicat wrote: ↑Sun Nov 22, 2020 12:12 pm Do you really want it deleted? I say keep it. May have to revisit the sentiment at some point.

Well, this post wound up aging well.

It can always get worse.

That should be the motto for Arizona Football. Not Bear Down.

Arizona Football: "It Can Always Get Worse."

I'd buy one of those t-shirts.

How could it get worse than a 0 win season? At least next season they can line up some FCS cupcake and other directional schools to get a couple of wins.

I wouldn't be surprised with a 1-11 type season next year.

scumdevils86 wrote: ↑Wed Dec 23, 2020 9:51 am I wouldn't be surprised with a 1-11 type season next year.

Where is the 1 win coming from?

Merkin wrote: ↑Wed Dec 23, 2020 9:44 am How could it get worse than a 0 win season? At least next season they can line up some FCS cupcake and other directional schools to get a couple of wins.

That's not better. A few window dressing wins when the core of the program remains bad is actually worse, IMO.

The goal is to be a competitive Pac program that can win, not to make people feel a little better by beating NAU and SCLSU pre-Boucher.

EastCoastCat wrote: ↑Wed Dec 23, 2020 9:55 am

scumdevils86 wrote: ↑Wed Dec 23, 2020 9:51 am I wouldn't be surprised with a 1-11 type season next year.

Where is the 1 win coming from?

There are probably 100 FCS teams that would be glad to come to Tucson to get paid to lose, after the hits their ADs took on this.

I think the basketball program pays $85K to weaker schools to come in, so football must pay $200K? Cal Poly and the rest of these schools with no season are probably calling up Heeke right now and trying to get in.

Merkin wrote: ↑Wed Dec 23, 2020 10:02 am

EastCoastCat wrote: ↑Wed Dec 23, 2020 9:55 am

scumdevils86 wrote: ↑Wed Dec 23, 2020 9:51 am I wouldn't be surprised with a 1-11 type season next year.

Where is the 1 win coming from?

There are probably 100 FCS teams that would be glad to come to Tucson to get paid to lose, after the hits their ADs took on this.

I think the basketball program pays $85K to weaker schools to come in, so football must pay $200K? Cal Poly and the rest of these schools with no season are probably calling up Heeke right now and trying to get in.

I believe our non-conference is BYU (blowout), SDST (probably a loss), and NAU which could very well be the only win of the season. At this point though I hope we lose to NAU too.

Will we even be able to field a team? How many players are going to transfer now? I can't imagine any player looking at this hire and getting excited

84Cat wrote: ↑Wed Dec 23, 2020 10:09 am Will we even be able to field a team? How many players are going to transfer now? I can't imagine any player looking at this hire and getting excited

Didn't one of the in the know guys say this hire was to keep Gunnell from transferring? But like Choo said, he never hire your coach to fit your QB.

President Robbins just disbanded UofA football.