UA Basketball 2015-2016 Discussion Thread

Spaceman Spiff · Post by **Spaceman Spiff** » Thu May 07, 2015 1:06 pm

FightWildcatsFight wrote:And this is the time of the year where basketball is winding down, coach goes on vacation, and the message boards are dead.

What am I going to do until August?

Bicep curls.

Jefe · Post by **Jefe** » Thu May 21, 2015 2:32 pm

Purple shorts

Main Event · Post by **Main Event** » Fri May 22, 2015 9:08 am

Looking ahead: Arizona Wildcats

When Kentucky marched out seven players for their final farewell, it was easy to see exactly what the Wildcats were losing.

Arizona’s news came more like a slow bleed, a news conference to announce Stanley Johnson was leaving after his freshman season, another to say Rondae Hollis-Jefferson was going as well, and a news release announcing Brandon Ashley’s decision to turn pro.

It didn’t necessarily ease the sting because the Wildcats, so tantalizingly and heartbreakingly close to the Final Four again in March, are essentially back to square one. With T.J. McConnell graduating, the only starter returning for coach Sean Miller is center Kaleb Tarczewski.

Cynics, of course, will see that word – elite – and snicker, quick to point out that Arizona hasn’t been to a Final Four since 2001, and that Miller is now 0-for-4 in Elite Eight games. They’d also be wise to remember that before Miller there was upheaval, chaos and two second-weekend berths in six years.

The reality is, the NCAA tournament is a wild card. The best team doesn’t always win the championship, let alone a game, and the best games often come down to matchups. Wisconsin was a lousy matchup for Arizona and the Badgers weren’t exactly a shabby team.

So the loss stings, and it stings even more now that the Wildcats have essentially said goodbye to a starting lineup that went 34-4 this past season.

But the real definition of elite, especially in this era of turnover, is what happens to a team when its roster is depleted by early defections and graduations. Does it crumble or reload?

Arizona is reloading.

What the immediate future holds: Let’s start with who is back for the Wildcats: Tarczewski likely could have been a first-round pick, but the 7-footer wanted to get his degree (he would be the first men's basketball player to graduate from the business school), attempt to become the school’s winningest player (he’s 18 wins away from that), and improve his game. Already one of the top defensive big men, he averaged 9.3 points and 5.2 rebounds on a team that had plenty of offensive options.

Not exactly a bad guy to build around.

And Miller has plenty of pieces with which to build.

Arizona’s reloading plan includes yet another top recruiting class, this one ranked fourth by ESPN, of four players. All are ranked in the ESPN 100, with three in the top 40: shooting guard Allonzo Trier (No. 18), small forward Ray Smith (No. 29), point guard Justin Simon (No. 37) and center Chance Comanche (No. 91). There’s also San Francisco graduate transfer Mark Tollefsen, who is at once a strong outside shooter and a highlight-reel dunker, plus junior college transfer Kadeem Allen and Boston College transfer Ryan Anderson.

Trier is, needless to say, the headliner. The Jordan Brand game MVP and McDonald’s All American can score from just about anywhere on the floor and is exactly what has been absent from the defensive-minded Wildcats for a few years – a bona fide, go-to scorer.

But he’s not the only guy who can help infuse some offense into an occasionally offensively-challenged team.

Tollefsen shot 38.9 percent from behind the arc at San Francisco. Before leaving Boston College, Anderson averaged 14.7 points per game.

As many coaches who have gone through the changeover would attest, though, the most critical players aren’t the new ones; they are the guys coming back. How players who were accustomed to playing bit parts react and adjust to bigger roles really is the difference, and Arizona has more than a few of them.

At point guard there’s Parker Jackson-Cartwright, McConnell’s understudy, who played sparingly but more than well, with a solid 2-to-1 assist-to-turnover ratio.

Gabe York and Elliott Pitts will be every bit as critical on the wing as Trier. York had the memorable game against Ohio State, coming off the bench for 19 points and 5-of-9 shooting from behind the arc, to prove exactly what kind of weapon he can be. He needs to be that -- if not all of the time -- most of the time this season for the Wildcats.

Tarczewski is the sure thing in the middle and he’ll be assisted by Dusan Ristic, another 7-footer coming off a good freshman campaign. The tag team, in fact, should be so strong that Comanche might have to wait his turn.

In all, the way it lays out makes for a team that is young, but bolstered by enough experience and so much talent that it’s hard to imagine Arizona not being the pick to win the Pac-12.

http://espn.go.com/blog/collegebasketba ... a-wildcats

84Cat · Post by **84Cat** » Tue Jun 02, 2015 12:45 pm

Main Event · Post by **Main Event** » Mon Jun 08, 2015 2:37 pm

84Cat · Post by **84Cat** » Wed Jul 01, 2015 1:10 pm

We need to figure out how to embed videos on this site:

threenumberones · Post by **threenumberones** » Wed Jul 01, 2015 6:55 pm

Knew he could shoot but damn.

Spaceman Spiff · Post by **Spaceman Spiff** » Wed Jul 01, 2015 7:03 pm

84Cat wrote:We need to figure out how to embed videos on this site:

I can't say I love that form, but I'm glad he's putting in the work and I hope they keep going down.

gumby · Post by **gumby** » Thu Jul 02, 2015 11:13 am

Misses edited out?

Beachcat97 · Post by **Beachcat97** » Sat Jul 11, 2015 9:34 am

So does anyone think Cal should be the favorite in the Pac this year?

ASUHATER! · Post by **ASUHATER!** » Sat Jul 11, 2015 9:36 am

Beachcat97 · Post by **Beachcat97** » Sat Jul 11, 2015 10:13 am

ASUHATER! wrote:No

So you think we should be the favorite? Followed by which other team(s)?

SCCats · Post by **SCCats** » Sat Jul 11, 2015 10:19 am

Beachcat97 wrote:
So you think we should be the favorite? Followed by which other team(s)?

There's 1) us and then 2-12) a whole bunch of teams that suck and aren't worth mentioning.

ASUHATER! · Post by **ASUHATER!** » Sat Jul 11, 2015 10:20 am

Cal and Oregon. No reason to not have us as the favorite.

Beachcat97 · Post by **Beachcat97** » Sat Jul 11, 2015 10:25 am

SCCats wrote:
Beachcat97 wrote:
So you think we should be the favorite? Followed by which other team(s)?
There's 1) us and then 2-12) a whole bunch of teams that suck and aren't worth mentioning.

I think Cal, Oregon, UCLA, and Utah could get to the tourney, and there should be more competition among the top tier. I'd be a little surprised to see any team post 16 or 15 Pac wins.

Main Event · Post by **Main Event** » Sat Jul 11, 2015 10:28 am

I think Cal flops

ChooChooCat · Post by **ChooChooCat** » Sat Jul 11, 2015 10:34 am

Here's a real fun question that's eating at me a bit. Miller has brought together a group of players who are more renowned for their offense than they are their defense. So does Miller play to this team's strength and conjures his primary lineups based on the best offensive players or does he try to fit a square peg into a round hole and play his best defensive players and try to get the best offense out of them? This definitely seems like a crossroads year for Miller as a head man. Adapt to his group's strength or force them to play Miller ball?

Hobbes · Post by **Hobbes** » Sat Jul 11, 2015 10:38 am

I say:

1. AZ
2. Cal
3. Oregon
4. UCLA
5. Utah

Beachcat97 · Post by **Beachcat97** » Sat Jul 11, 2015 10:59 am

ChooChooCat wrote:Here's a real fun question that's eating at me a bit. Miller has brought together a group of players who are more renowned for their offense than they are their defense. So does Miller play to this team's strength and conjures his primary lineups based on the best offensive players or does he try to fit a square peg into a round hole and play his best defensive players and try to get the best offense out of them? This definitely seems like a crossroads year for Miller as a head man. Adapt to his group's strength or force them to play Miller ball?

I can't see Miller switching up his philosophy when it's produced so much success. These guys will grow into a good defensive team, maybe not as good as we've seen the past two seasons but still good.

SCCats · Post by **SCCats** » Sat Jul 11, 2015 10:59 am

Main Event wrote:I think Cal flops

We beat Cal by nine games in the standings, their stats were (in the nation) PPG 200th, Rebounds 111th, Assists 183rd, FG % 143rd, coached by Cuonzo Martin but they're going to add two freshmen to that team and basically become (at least, generally) a fringe top ten in the country team to win the PAC title.

I agree with you ME that there's lots of potential downside to that story, lots of possibility for a "flop" but the worst part will be, after they go like 12-6 in a fairly crappy PAC, people will say "Well you have to understand, there wasn't really much returning talent on this Cal team, that their statistics for last year (see quoted above) were very bad and they did make some good strides, but..."

And people like me (and probably you) will be sitting here shaking our heads at their post season analysis.

ASUHATER! · Post by **ASUHATER!** » Sat Jul 11, 2015 11:06 am

Cal will be good but does just adding two good freshmen make them one of the most improved and best teams in the nation? I don't know.

Beachcat97 · Post by **Beachcat97** » Sat Jul 11, 2015 11:09 am

SCCats wrote:
Main Event wrote:I think Cal flops
We beat Cal by nine games in the standings, their stats were (in the nation) PPG 200th, Rebounds 111th, Assists 183rd, FG % 143rd, coached by Cuonzo Martin but they're going to add two freshmen to that team and basically become (at least, generally) a fringe top ten in the country team to win the PAC title.

I agree with you ME that there's lots of potential downside to that story, lots of possibility for a "flop" but the worst part will be, after they go like 12-6 in a fairly crappy PAC, people will say "Well you have to understand, there wasn't really much returning talent on this Cal team, that their statistics for last year (see quoted above) were very bad and they did make some good strides, but..."

And people like me (and probably you) will be sitting here shaking our heads at their post season analysis.

I think it'll depend on just how good Rabb and Brown can become by March. All that upside and potential can end up meaning very little when you only play one season of college ball. There's enormous pressure on both of them to make an immediate impact. It's like we've seen Okafor, Gordon, Shabazz, Noel, Oubre, and so many others recently...some are college-ready, some aren't.

ChooChooCat · Post by **ChooChooCat** » Sat Jul 11, 2015 2:17 pm

ASUHATER! wrote:Cal will be good but does just adding two good freshmen make them one of the most improved and best teams in the nation? I don't know.

No, it's adding two very good freshmen along to a roster with 3 returning players who averaged double figures in scoring along with a highly rated transfer becoming eligible (Domingo). I mean if we had that at Arizona many here would be saying we have a final four team. Honestly the only question mark I have about that team is coaching and even with poor coaching teams with that much talent find ways to win more often than not during the season. Unless of course that team is UNLV....

Honestly if someone I respected were coaching Cal I'd have them as the no brainer #1 team in the conference next year, but since they don't, I'll go for another team that returns many major contributors along with adding a very good grad transfer point guard along with a scorer to replace Joe Young in Oregon. I think Arizona fans should get used to the thought of not winning this conference. Plenty of question marks on next year's team that for some reason people feel are answers and I don't get it truthfully.

ASUHATER! · Post by **ASUHATER!** » Sat Jul 11, 2015 2:29 pm

So csl has 4-5 players and some moldy oranges on the bench. Big woop

ChooChooCat · Post by **ChooChooCat** » Sat Jul 11, 2015 2:36 pm

ASUHATER! wrote:So csl has 4-5 players and some moldy oranges on the bench. Big woop

We won the conference 2 years in a row with only Gabe York providing a pulse off our bench and doing something that Stephen Domingo is more than capable of (shooting open 3s). Big woop indeed.

Beachcat97 · Post by **Beachcat97** » Sat Jul 18, 2015 11:31 am

http://espn.go.com/blog/collegebasketba ... the-pac-12

gumby · Post by **gumby** » Mon Jul 20, 2015 10:01 am

ChooChooCat wrote:Here's a real fun question that's eating at me a bit. Miller has brought together a group of players who are more renowned for their offense than they are their defense. So does Miller play to this team's strength and conjures his primary lineups based on the best offensive players or does he try to fit a square peg into a round hole and play his best defensive players and try to get the best offense out of them? This definitely seems like a crossroads year for Miller as a head man. Adapt to his group's strength or force them to play Miller ball?

I'm stuck on "renowned." Kaleb thrives on defense. Justin Simon would appear to have that rep. Not sure anyone other than Rondae was renowned for defense out of high school from last year's team.

Guys like him and Nick and Aaron became renowned.

For most of these guys, it's on them to learn how to properly D-up and then have the fortitude to follow through. Otherwise, there's the bench. It's too soon for them to be a "square peg."

If, for instance, Trier thinks he can slide by on offense alone, York and others will gobble those minutes. I would imagine Ryan Anderson is on board with defending hard after watching from the bench and being in practices. Tollefsen was often sicced on the other team's best scorer. When you see a Stanley Johnson or Ristic shown the bench for not defending properly, it says something about the coach you're about to play for.

We don't have enough offensive firepower to simply outscore elite teams. Plus, I doubt Miller would recruit any player who believes he's already fully formed and can't adapt.

Merkin · Post by **Merkin** » Mon Jul 20, 2015 10:11 am

Didn't Miller bench Trier for lack of defense in the U19s?

Hobbes · Post by **Hobbes** » Mon Jul 20, 2015 12:25 pm

It will be an interesting balance next year, that's for sure.

Beachcat97 · Post by **Beachcat97** » Mon Jul 20, 2015 1:36 pm

Has Miller ever had this much backcourt depth?

rgdeuce · Post by **rgdeuce** » Mon Jul 20, 2015 3:21 pm

Well, after Rondae moved back into the starting lineup, last year. Stanley technically went from the 3 to the 2 if you want to break down positions in a traditional sense even though most considered him a 3 and that probably could be considered a 3 forward lineup. If by depth you mean a deeper bench (and that only), then yea, probably will have 4 good to serviceable backcourt options off the bench as opposed to 3 last year.
G- TJ
G - Stanley

Bench- York, Pitts, PJC, Kadeem (redshirt but still depth that just wasn't needed at the time)

Not sure of the lineup for 15-16, assuming Trier starts
G- PJC
G- Trier

Bench - York, Pitts, Kadeem, Simon.

ChooChooCat · Post by **ChooChooCat** » Mon Jul 20, 2015 3:39 pm

I don't think we live in an universe where Gabe York would be happy coming off the bench as a senior nor do we live in a world where Trier would be happy with it as well, although I lean more to Miller being able to sell the latter on doing so than the former at this point in their careers. I would not be surprised one bit if both start.

rgdeuce · Post by **rgdeuce** » Mon Jul 20, 2015 3:55 pm

Guess we will see. York has a two-year history of starting and in that history, he also spent more than half those seasons starting on the bench. I don't see the need for CSM to sell it to either though and in the grand scheme of things, it probably won't even matter, both will get significant minutes. We may even see a 3-guard starting lineup, who knows.

gumby · Post by **gumby** » Mon Jul 20, 2015 5:36 pm

How I see it (without having seen Simon, Smith).

PJC
York
??
Anderson
Tarcewski

Trier had some struggles overall, not just on defense. Can't just outmuscle people on drives to the rim, like he did in H.S., so he couldn't finish as well. His challenge will be to keep the ball moving and not let it stick in his hands. SJ had the same challenge. Mark Lyons never overcame that.

That fifth starter? Could be Trier if we go small. Or Smith if we go traditional. The sleeper, to me, is Tollefsen. He could steal some of those wing minutes if the young 'uns struggle to adapt. (Along with playing the 4).

As the freshmen get comfortable, the minutes will change. But i expect the four I've listed to lead the team in minutes played. But I don't think any of them will be among league leaders in that category.

We have a lot of very good players, but possibly no great players. I don't see a POY on that roster, but would love to be surprised (Anderson?). So, they better have the mindset that stops are paramount to success.

Airizona · Post by **Airizona** » Mon Jul 20, 2015 6:14 pm

gumby wrote:How I see it (without having seen Simon, Smith).

PJC
York
??
Anderson
Tarcewski

Trier had some struggles overall, not just on defense. Can't just outmuscle people on drives to the rim, like he did in H.S., so he couldn't finish as well. His challenge will be to keep the ball moving and not let it stick in his hands. SJ had the same challenge. Mark Lyons never overcame that.

That fifth starter? Could be Trier if we go small. Or Smith if we go traditional. The sleeper, to me, is Tollefsen. He could steal some of those wing minutes if the young 'uns struggle to adapt. (Along with playing the 4).

As the freshmen get comfortable, the minutes will change. But i expect the four I've listed to lead the team in minutes played. But I don't think any of them will be among league leaders in that category.

We have a lot of very good players, but possibly no great players. I don't see a POY on that roster, but would love to be surprised (Anderson?). So, they better have the mindset that stops are paramount to success.

I agree on your starters except I could see Allen somewhere in the starting lineup and if he doesn't end up in the starting lineup I could see him getting a lot of minutes off the bench. He has had a year in the system and looked good coming out of juco (although it is hard to gauge a players' success in juco compared do d1).

I could see Smith being great...he was talked about as a oad until his injury and he received high praise from Miller. Big question mark for him though since he is coming off of an acl (mcl?) injury.

I think I am most excited to see the progress of PJC and how Tollefsen and Anderson fit into the team.

I agree that we have a lot of good players. Platoon! I kid, but it will be interesting to see if Miller expands his core group of players now that the skill level seems to be more even.

HiCat · Post by **HiCat** » Mon Jul 20, 2015 6:25 pm

I agree on your starters except I could see Allen somewhere in the starting lineup and if he doesn't end up in the starting lineup I could see him getting a lot of minutes off the bench. He has had a year in the system and looked good coming out of juco (although it is hard to gauge a players' success in juco compared do d1).

Yes. Agree with this line of thinking. I'm guessing that Kadeem Allen is a huge wild card for the Wildcats.

rgdeuce · Post by **rgdeuce** » Tue Jul 21, 2015 7:55 am

gumby wrote:
The sleeper, to me, is Tollefsen. He could steal some of those wing minutes if the young 'uns struggle to adapt. (Along with playing the 4).

We have a lot of very good players, but possibly no great players. I don't see a POY on that roster, but would love to be surprised (Anderson?). So, they better have the mindset that stops are paramount to success.

I agree on Tollefsen being a sleeper. Im excited to see him in action. If he started w Anderson and Tarc, we would be massive. From only reading things and not seeing these guys, he may be the best shooter we have at the 3 as well. I just see these incoming freshmen as all being raw, and probably none of them being an immediate high impact guy like AG or Stanley. I had super high expectations for Trier, and it's not really fair to just judge him on an international competition tournament, but I have kind of curbed those expectations now.

I agree with your second paragraph as well, and I think Anderson is going to be our best player.

Merkin · Post by **Merkin** » Tue Jul 21, 2015 8:31 am

Tollefson is a better 3 point shooter playing against Div I talent than Kadeem Allen is playing against JC teams.

Can't have a 2G who can't hit an open 3. Defenses will obviously just pack the paint like they did when McConnell was open.

Going to be York starting at 2G just to free up some lanes.

But thinking about it, TJ was a very good 3 point shooter at Duquesne, 40% and 43% his 2 years. It wasn't until he arrived at Arizona did he have to deal with upper Div I defenses, and never did regain his stroke.

Tollefson being a big maybe so won't have quite an adjustment, but it will still be tougher.

Sure hope Allen was a gym rat. Being a redshirt I don't imagine he scrimmaged all that much. Kadeem was 460th in 3 point percentage at Hutchinson.

catgrad97 · Post by **catgrad97** » Tue Jul 21, 2015 10:17 am

Great post Merkin. Remember how inexplicably T.J.'s FT percentage dropped off too, though?

Reminds me of Craig McMillan going from 80+ % at the line as a junior to the mid-60s, including a couple of scary front-end misses, in the first Final Four season.

Even York showed some slippage at the line late last season. I don't get it.

Is it the intensity of competition? Their motor's running too high? It's like pure shooters almost have to have a different mentality to stay that way in D-1.

gumby · Post by **gumby** » Tue Jul 21, 2015 11:11 am

Totally spaced Kadeem Allen. I feel better already. We are deep and experienced, which is odd for a team losing four starters.

Jefe · Post by **Jefe** » Tue Jul 21, 2015 11:39 am

catgrad97 · Post by **catgrad97** » Tue Jul 21, 2015 12:05 pm

Given where Trier's at defensively and where Smith's at conditioning-wise, it'll either be Allen or Tollefsen at that 3 spot to start the season.

rgdeuce · Post by **rgdeuce** » Fri Jul 31, 2015 7:48 am

Lot of pics on twitter, guess they had their official photo day or whatever it is. Feels like a completely new team, weird, but exciting.

84Cat · Post by **84Cat** » Fri Jul 31, 2015 7:50 am

rgdeuce wrote:Lot of pics on twitter, guess they had their official photo day or whatever it is. Feels like a completely new team, weird, but exciting.

Yep

3goggles · Post by **3goggles** » Fri Jul 31, 2015 8:08 am

Seems like they are a fun group and seem to really like each other. I think that Simon or Smith will be the most popular freshman in mckale this year. There have personalities like RHJ

Olsondogg · Post by **Olsondogg** » Fri Jul 31, 2015 9:11 am

At the end of every season I get a bit down thinking "Oh man, that was a great team and it won't be like that again..."

And then the next season comes, and everything is good. Excited now.

enfuego · Post by **enfuego** » Fri Jul 31, 2015 2:17 pm

84Cat wrote:
rgdeuce wrote:Lot of pics on twitter, guess they had their official photo day or whatever it is. Feels like a completely new team, weird, but exciting.
Yep

Inside, Tarczewski is thinking about what could have been and shattered NBA dreams.

Post by **UAdevil** » Fri Jul 31, 2015 2:25 pm

Like Embiid's shattered NBA dreams?

Chicat · Post by **Chicat** » Fri Jul 31, 2015 3:39 pm

enfuego wrote:Inside, Tarczewski is thinking about what could have been and shattered NBA dreams.

Your literal hard-on for Zeus is gross. Put it away.

gumby · Post by **gumby** » Fri Jul 31, 2015 6:08 pm

ISO ... in search of?

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