lets talk '16

Beachcat97 · Post by **Beachcat97** » Mon Oct 26, 2015 11:53 am

EOCT wrote:
Chicat wrote:
EOCT wrote:
gronk4heisman wrote:Or he is simply stating that Lauri will be starting, no questions asked.

PJC
Trier
Smith (JJ if we get him)
Lauri
Ristic

Exactly. That is, that Lauri was not included in BC's forecast line-up. Nothing more.
LM = Lauri Markkanen
Thanks, Chi. After I posted I went to Bc's post and saw I was wrong--"LM" was there. I Then hit delete to correct my mistake and was given a message "You can't delete something you've written which has been replied to"(your post, Chi.)

Sorry for jumping on you BC.

No worries. I think LM is our starting PF next season. If JJ does the smart thing and commits to AZ, we'll just have a much deeper, more talented frontcout in '16.

ChooChooCat · Post by **ChooChooCat** » Mon Oct 26, 2015 1:30 pm

If Arizona can get away with it politically and Ray is back at full strength by the start of the season I'd start Ray at the 4 and have Lauri as the first big off the bench. That is all assuming we land Jackson of course. Very talented team lined up for next year. Let's hope the injury bug doesn't spoil it.

Beachcat97 · Post by **Beachcat97** » Mon Oct 26, 2015 2:36 pm

ChooChooCat wrote:If Arizona can get away with it politically and Ray is back at full strength by the start of the season I'd start Ray at the 4 and have Lauri as the first big off the bench. That is all assuming we land Jackson of course. Very talented team lined up for next year. Let's hope the injury bug doesn't spoil it.

With healthy RS + JJ = top 5 team

With only healthy RS = solid top 20 team

With neither = marginal top 25 team

Still a lot left to pan out with the '16 class.

gumby · Post by **gumby** » Mon Oct 26, 2015 3:04 pm

ChooChooCat wrote:If Arizona can get away with it politically and Ray is back at full strength by the start of the season I'd start Ray at the 4 and have Lauri as the first big off the bench. That is all assuming we land Jackson of course. Very talented team lined up for next year. Let's hope the injury bug doesn't spoil it.

Huh? Can't have a Democratic Socialist as a starter?

ChooChooCat · Post by **ChooChooCat** » Mon Oct 26, 2015 4:45 pm

Beachcat97 wrote:
ChooChooCat wrote:If Arizona can get away with it politically and Ray is back at full strength by the start of the season I'd start Ray at the 4 and have Lauri as the first big off the bench. That is all assuming we land Jackson of course. Very talented team lined up for next year. Let's hope the injury bug doesn't spoil it.
With healthy RS + JJ = top 5 team

With only healthy RS = solid top 20 team

With neither = marginal top 25 team

Still a lot left to pan out with the '16 class.

Trier, healthy Smith, Lauri, and Ristic is much better than a top 20 team.

Main Event · Post by **Main Event** » Mon Oct 26, 2015 6:11 pm

Beachcat97 · Post by **Beachcat97** » Mon Oct 26, 2015 7:11 pm

Is Simmons a PG?

Beachcat97 · Post by **Beachcat97** » Mon Oct 26, 2015 7:12 pm

ChooChooCat wrote:
Beachcat97 wrote:
ChooChooCat wrote:If Arizona can get away with it politically and Ray is back at full strength by the start of the season I'd start Ray at the 4 and have Lauri as the first big off the bench. That is all assuming we land Jackson of course. Very talented team lined up for next year. Let's hope the injury bug doesn't spoil it.
With healthy RS + JJ = top 5 team

With only healthy RS = solid top 20 team

With neither = marginal top 25 team

Still a lot left to pan out with the '16 class.
Trier, healthy Smith, Lauri, and Ristic is much better than a top 20 team.

Which is why I said "solid" top 20 team. I mean a team that should rise and fall within the rankings over the season, never lower than 20, probably never higher than 10th.

carolinacat · Post by **carolinacat** » Tue Oct 27, 2015 6:51 am

Miller said this would be a late signing class ("The hay won't come into the barn until spring"). But if he can pull Markannen, Simmons and Jackson that would be an incredible haul!

Longhorned · Post by **Longhorned** » Tue Oct 27, 2015 7:05 am

carolinacat wrote:Miller said this would be a late signing class ("The hay won't come into the barn until spring"). But if he can pull Markannen, Simmons and Jackson that would be an incredible haul!

I don't think he meant Simmons when he said that. But Markannen and Jackson is already quite the incredible haul.

Beachcat97 · Post by **Beachcat97** » Tue Oct 27, 2015 7:39 am

Anyone know who's leading for Simmons?

HiCat · Post by **HiCat** » Tue Oct 27, 2015 7:52 am

Beachcat97 wrote:Anyone know who's leading for Simmons?

Ohio St 65% UK 30% Az 5%

Combo guard

http://247sports.com/Player/Kobi-Simmons-28445" target="_blank

Beachcat97 · Post by **Beachcat97** » Tue Oct 27, 2015 10:55 am

HiCat wrote:
Beachcat97 wrote:Anyone know who's leading for Simmons?

Ohio St 65% UK 30% Az 5%

Combo guard

http://247sports.com/Player/Kobi-Simmons-28445" target="_blank

So I'm gonna take that as, he's not coming.

Back to focusing on JJ.

97cats · Post by **97cats** » Tue Oct 27, 2015 11:05 am

zero chance

Longhorned · Post by **Longhorned** » Tue Oct 27, 2015 11:10 am

When you recruit a player who you know you won't land, the favor goes two ways, spotlighting the player and program and ensuring the relevance and name recognition of both. You don't even need to follow through on the recruitment for that to work.

Beachcat97 · Post by **Beachcat97** » Tue Oct 27, 2015 12:27 pm

97cats wrote:zero chance

Terrific.

Zimmerman 2.0

Spaceman Spiff · Post by **Spaceman Spiff** » Tue Oct 27, 2015 1:06 pm

Longhorned wrote:
carolinacat wrote:Miller said this would be a late signing class ("The hay won't come into the barn until spring"). But if he can pull Markannen, Simmons and Jackson that would be an incredible haul!
I don't think he meant Simmons when he said that. But Markannen and Jackson is already quite the incredible haul.

Markannen, Jackson and no unnecessary departures and we are stacked in 2016. Stacked.

Beachcat97 · Post by **Beachcat97** » Tue Oct 27, 2015 1:26 pm

Spaceman Spiff wrote:
Longhorned wrote:
carolinacat wrote:Miller said this would be a late signing class ("The hay won't come into the barn until spring"). But if he can pull Markannen, Simmons and Jackson that would be an incredible haul!
I don't think he meant Simmons when he said that. But Markannen and Jackson is already quite the incredible haul.
Markannen, Jackson and no unnecessary departures and we are stacked in 2016. Stacked.

Don't think anyone's ready to assume JJ will be at AZ.

ChooChooCat · Post by **ChooChooCat** » Tue Oct 27, 2015 1:42 pm

How do I delete posts on this board?

Spaceman Spiff · Post by **Spaceman Spiff** » Tue Oct 27, 2015 1:47 pm

Beachcat97 wrote:
Spaceman Spiff wrote:
Longhorned wrote:
carolinacat wrote:Miller said this would be a late signing class ("The hay won't come into the barn until spring"). But if he can pull Markannen, Simmons and Jackson that would be an incredible haul!
I don't think he meant Simmons when he said that. But Markannen and Jackson is already quite the incredible haul.
Markannen, Jackson and no unnecessary departures and we are stacked in 2016. Stacked.
Don't think anyone's ready to assume JJ will be at AZ.

I'm not assuming. Just saying that if we land those two, landing anyone else is unimportant. We aren't in need of 3-4-5 man recruiting classes like we have been in some years.

Longhorned · Post by **Longhorned** » Tue Oct 27, 2015 6:51 pm

Beachcat97 wrote:
Spaceman Spiff wrote:
Longhorned wrote:
carolinacat wrote:Miller said this would be a late signing class ("The hay won't come into the barn until spring"). But if he can pull Markannen, Simmons and Jackson that would be an incredible haul!
I don't think he meant Simmons when he said that. But Markannen and Jackson is already quite the incredible haul.
Markannen, Jackson and no unnecessary departures and we are stacked in 2016. Stacked.
Don't think anyone's ready to assume JJ will be at AZ.

I assume that unless something changes, Jackson will commit to Arizona in the spring.

az91 · Post by **az91** » Wed Oct 28, 2015 12:20 am

Longhorned wrote:When you recruit a player who you know you won't land, the favor goes two ways, spotlighting the player and program and ensuring the relevance and name recognition of both. You don't even need to follow through on the recruitment for that to work.

Zero Chance

enfuego · Post by **enfuego** » Wed Oct 28, 2015 9:17 am

Longhorned wrote:
Beachcat97 wrote:
Spaceman Spiff wrote:
Longhorned wrote:
carolinacat wrote:Miller said this would be a late signing class ("The hay won't come into the barn until spring"). But if he can pull Markannen, Simmons and Jackson that would be an incredible haul!
I don't think he meant Simmons when he said that. But Markannen and Jackson is already quite the incredible haul.
Markannen, Jackson and no unnecessary departures and we are stacked in 2016. Stacked.
Don't think anyone's ready to assume JJ will be at AZ.
I assume that unless something changes, Jackson will commit to Arizona in the spring.

So, you're giving KU and MSU no chance with Jackson?

Longhorned · Post by **Longhorned** » Wed Oct 28, 2015 10:40 am

I think KU and MSU both have a good chance to get Jackson. I just think that for that to happen, something will need to change by the spring.

HiCat · Post by **HiCat** » Wed Oct 28, 2015 11:16 am

While I don't think KU is out of it, it sure looks like the race is between MSU and Az. The fact that his friend committed to MSU recently may have
sparked a couple of talking heads to give the nod to the Spartans. Not that I think JJ is sold on them. Only musing.

Longhorned · Post by **Longhorned** » Wed Oct 28, 2015 11:40 am

HiCat wrote:While I don't think KU is out of it, it sure looks like the race is between MSU and Az. The fact that his friend committed to MSU recently may have
sparked a couple of talking heads to give the nod to the Spartans. Not that I think JJ is sold on them. Only musing.

Izzo obviously wants to land Jackson, playing for Izzo would be an honor, Michigan is home, and Miles Bridges committed there and wants Jackson to join him and, with Jackson as his friend, that would make sense for Jackson as well. Add it all up: clear rationale for Jackson to MSU.

But Jackson to Arizona. And not for the weather. Not for some girl in the ultimate frisbee club. For the basketball coach who he plays for and identifies with for basketball reasons.

Beachcat97 · Post by **Beachcat97** » Wed Oct 28, 2015 2:57 pm

Longhorned wrote:
HiCat wrote:While I don't think KU is out of it, it sure looks like the race is between MSU and Az. The fact that his friend committed to MSU recently may have
sparked a couple of talking heads to give the nod to the Spartans. Not that I think JJ is sold on them. Only musing.
Izzo obviously wants to land Jackson, playing for Izzo would be an honor, Michigan is home, and Miles Bridges committed there and wants Jackson to join him and, with Jackson as his friend, that would make sense for Jackson as well. Add it all up: clear rationale for Jackson to MSU.

But Jackson to Arizona. And not for the weather. Not for some girl in the ultimate frisbee club. For the basketball coach who he plays for and identifies with for basketball reasons.

Dude, I hope you're spot on with this. JJ will be a one-year legend in Tucson. Up there with SJ and AG.

Longhorned · Post by **Longhorned** » Wed Oct 28, 2015 4:41 pm

According to the scouts, he'd be the best player ever to come to Arizona.

Beachcat97 · Post by **Beachcat97** » Wed Oct 28, 2015 9:11 pm

Longhorned wrote:According to the scouts, he'd be the best player ever to come to Arizona.

Doubt it. I'd be happy if his impact rivals AG's. Not trying to sell JJ short; just being respectful of the guys who already lived up to their billing.

rgdeuce · Post by **rgdeuce** » Wed Oct 28, 2015 11:13 pm

Why do you doubt it. Dudes being compared to Tracy McGrady and Andrew Wiggins. With all due respect to AG and Stanley, two outstanding players here with chances to be all stars in the NBA down the road, Jackson is regarded as a guy who could possibly be a top 5 or 10 level player in the NBA for anlong time. For all the guys we have put in the league, we havent had that type of guy outside of maybe Arenas for a two or three year period. Scouts arent always right, but theres a difference between drawing Shawn Marion and Ron Artest comps than Tracy McGrady, a guy who had the talent and potential to be an all time NBA great and was still a top 5 talent for multiple seasons.

Puerco · Post by **Puerco** » Thu Oct 29, 2015 2:21 am

Methinks the scouts are speaking of NBA potential. Greatest player to come to UA in my book would have to be judged on achievement, and no one's going to beat Sean Elliott in that respect, unless something changes to make 4 year players a common occurence again.

Longhorned · Post by **Longhorned** » Thu Oct 29, 2015 6:04 am

Puerco wrote:Methinks the scouts are speaking of NBA potential. Greatest player to come to UA in my book would have to be judged on achievement, and no one's going to beat Sean Elliott in that respect, unless something changes to make 4 year players a common occurence again.

Scouts address upside, so it makes sense that's they're explicitly addressing NBA potential. There's a difference between the best player to come to the program and the best player to ever be in the program. There will never be a player in any program at the level of Sean Elliott unless college basketball returns to that world where even Michael Jordan stayed in college for three years. Current scouts generally have been watching college basketball since the 1990s and have been scouting actively for around 5-15 years.

rgdeuce · Post by **rgdeuce** » Thu Oct 29, 2015 8:42 am

Puerco wrote:Methinks the scouts are speaking of NBA potential. Greatest player to come to UA in my book would have to be judged on achievement, and no one's going to beat Sean Elliott in that respect, unless something changes to make 4 year players a common occurence again.

And it depends on how a person defines best player to ever come to the U of A. You can either see that as 1) Who was the best players during their time here, or 2) Who becomes the best player at the next level. Since we always have these debates years after all of these guys leave, I personally define the best player as who has the best pro career or possibly, who was the best professional for at least a string of several seasons. Sean Elliott clearly is above everyone else in terms of what he did while wearing an Arizona uniform, but Arenas was the better professional.

Say JJ commits here, comes into a loaded team and is a 14ppg guy, and 2nd or 3rd team all american. Then he goes into the NBA and becomes a Kobe Bryant. Is Sean Elliott still the best player to come to the U of A?

And Sean Elliott was playing at Arizona when I was a young kid just starting my love affair for Arizona basketball. So I cannot speak to how decorated he was coming in, but from what I have heard from others over the years, he was not nearly as decorated as JJ is right now. I followed Mike Bibby in high school and remember just about everyone back then saying Bibby was the best recruit Lute had ever had come into the program.

Merkin · Post by **Merkin** » Thu Oct 29, 2015 9:12 am

Jackson is rumored to be in East Lansing this weekend for Midnight Madness.

Izzo already loaded. Fortunately there is only 1 ball and 200 minutes, although Jackson probably isn't all that concerned about competition for playing time.

Beachcat97 · Post by **Beachcat97** » Thu Oct 29, 2015 9:28 am

Wow. MSU is going to be in beast mode the next couple years. I love Izzo. I always seem to root for him when his teams are in the tourney, unless we're in their bracket of course.

Main Event · Post by **Main Event** » Thu Oct 29, 2015 10:31 am

They had there midnight madness last week and he wasn't there.

Longhorned · Post by **Longhorned** » Thu Oct 29, 2015 10:49 am

Jackson would start for Sparty or any team no matter how talented, and get all the minutes he could handle at any position 1-4.

Beachcat97 · Post by **Beachcat97** » Thu Oct 29, 2015 10:51 am

Main Event wrote:They had there midnight madness last week and he wasn't there.

Interesting. We'd have to know how many other elite recruits skipped one school's MM only to commit to that school later on.

97cats · Post by **97cats** » Thu Oct 29, 2015 10:59 am

Longhorned wrote:Jackson would start for Sparty or any team no matter how talented, and get all the minutes he could handle at any position 1-4.

yes

Beachcat97 · Post by **Beachcat97** » Thu Oct 29, 2015 11:10 am

97cats wrote:
Longhorned wrote:Jackson would start for Sparty or any team no matter how talented, and get all the minutes he could handle at any position 1-4.
yes

Same was true for AG and SJ, not necessarily at 1-4, but definitely at multiple positions.

Spaceman Spiff · Post by **Spaceman Spiff** » Thu Oct 29, 2015 11:51 am

Longhorned wrote:
Puerco wrote:Methinks the scouts are speaking of NBA potential. Greatest player to come to UA in my book would have to be judged on achievement, and no one's going to beat Sean Elliott in that respect, unless something changes to make 4 year players a common occurence again.
Scouts address upside, so it makes sense that's they're explicitly addressing NBA potential. There's a difference between the best player to come to the program and the best player to ever be in the program. There will never be a player in any program at the level of Sean Elliott unless college basketball returns to that world where even Michael Jordan stayed in college for three years. Current scouts generally have been watching college basketball since the 1990s and have been scouting actively for around 5-15 years.

No current college player is going to accumulate the college resume of a 20th century college star.

JJ would have a legit chance to be the best player (at the peak of his personal basketball life) ever from Arizona. We've had guys who hit all-star heights, (Arenas, Iggy, Bibby) players with long solid NBA careers (Terry, Damon, Kerr, Elliott) but never a perennial all-star, the kind of guy who makes the all-star team 8-10 times. I could see that potential for JJ.

97cats · Post by **97cats** » Thu Oct 29, 2015 12:11 pm

Beachcat97 wrote:
Same was true for AG and SJ, not necessarily at 1-4, but definitely at multiple positions.

yes

ChooChooCat · Post by **ChooChooCat** » Thu Oct 29, 2015 1:16 pm

Spaceman Spiff wrote:
Longhorned wrote:
Puerco wrote:Methinks the scouts are speaking of NBA potential. Greatest player to come to UA in my book would have to be judged on achievement, and no one's going to beat Sean Elliott in that respect, unless something changes to make 4 year players a common occurence again.
Scouts address upside, so it makes sense that's they're explicitly addressing NBA potential. There's a difference between the best player to come to the program and the best player to ever be in the program. There will never be a player in any program at the level of Sean Elliott unless college basketball returns to that world where even Michael Jordan stayed in college for three years. Current scouts generally have been watching college basketball since the 1990s and have been scouting actively for around 5-15 years.
No current college player is going to accumulate the college resume of a 20th century college star.

JJ would have a legit chance to be the best player (at the peak of his personal basketball life) ever from Arizona. We've had guys who hit all-star heights, (Arenas, Iggy, Bibby) players with long solid NBA careers (Terry, Damon, Kerr, Elliott) but never a perennial all-star, the kind of guy who makes the all-star team 8-10 times. I could see that potential for JJ.

Not to steal 97's M.O. in this thread, but....Yes.

Ih8assu · Post by **Ih8assu** » Thu Oct 29, 2015 1:33 pm

Arizona "right where we want to be with JJ"???

Beachcat97 · Post by **Beachcat97** » Thu Oct 29, 2015 1:35 pm

Spaceman Spiff wrote:
Longhorned wrote:
Puerco wrote:Methinks the scouts are speaking of NBA potential. Greatest player to come to UA in my book would have to be judged on achievement, and no one's going to beat Sean Elliott in that respect, unless something changes to make 4 year players a common occurence again.
Scouts address upside, so it makes sense that's they're explicitly addressing NBA potential. There's a difference between the best player to come to the program and the best player to ever be in the program. There will never be a player in any program at the level of Sean Elliott unless college basketball returns to that world where even Michael Jordan stayed in college for three years. Current scouts generally have been watching college basketball since the 1990s and have been scouting actively for around 5-15 years.
No current college player is going to accumulate the college resume of a 20th century college star.

JJ would have a legit chance to be the best player (at the peak of his personal basketball life) ever from Arizona. We've had guys who hit all-star heights, (Arenas, Iggy, Bibby) players with long solid NBA careers (Terry, Damon, Kerr, Elliott) but never a perennial all-star, the kind of guy who makes the all-star team 8-10 times. I could see that potential for JJ.

Maybe my reluctance to anoint him as the possible "best player ever at AZ" has to do with the uncertainty surrounding his recruitment. I'd rather be pleasantly surprised when he spurns Izzo and joins AZ than bummed when he lands in East Lansing, Lawrence, Durham, or freaking Lexington.

I will say this, though: you guys have me more excited about the possibility of getting JJ than I was about AG or SJ. JJ sounds like a total game-changer.

ChooChooCat · Post by **ChooChooCat** » Thu Oct 29, 2015 1:46 pm

Beachcat97 wrote:
Spaceman Spiff wrote:
Longhorned wrote:
Puerco wrote:Methinks the scouts are speaking of NBA potential. Greatest player to come to UA in my book would have to be judged on achievement, and no one's going to beat Sean Elliott in that respect, unless something changes to make 4 year players a common occurence again.
Scouts address upside, so it makes sense that's they're explicitly addressing NBA potential. There's a difference between the best player to come to the program and the best player to ever be in the program. There will never be a player in any program at the level of Sean Elliott unless college basketball returns to that world where even Michael Jordan stayed in college for three years. Current scouts generally have been watching college basketball since the 1990s and have been scouting actively for around 5-15 years.
No current college player is going to accumulate the college resume of a 20th century college star.

JJ would have a legit chance to be the best player (at the peak of his personal basketball life) ever from Arizona. We've had guys who hit all-star heights, (Arenas, Iggy, Bibby) players with long solid NBA careers (Terry, Damon, Kerr, Elliott) but never a perennial all-star, the kind of guy who makes the all-star team 8-10 times. I could see that potential for JJ.
Maybe my reluctance to anoint him as the possible "best player ever at AZ" has to do with the uncertainty surrounding his recruitment. I'd rather be pleasantly surprised when he spurns Izzo and joins AZ than bummed when he lands in East Lansing, Lawrence, Durham, or freaking Lexington.

I will say this, though: you guys have me more excited about the possibility of getting JJ than I was about AG or SJ. JJ sounds like a total game-changer.

There's really nothing uncertain about his recruitment and the chances of him landing up at Durham or Lexington, the location of two schools not even actively recruiting him at the moment nor are they even on his list, are minimal at best to say the least and much more likely stand at zero percent.

Longhorned has repeatedly told you where the recruitment stands at the moment. At this point he'd have to spurn Miller before he'd ever have the chance to spurn Izzo.

Spaceman Spiff · Post by **Spaceman Spiff** » Thu Oct 29, 2015 2:04 pm

The Wiggins comparison is pretty dead on for JJ. He's in that mold.

I don't really get put off by him not being committed yet. LeBron James would have been the best player in Arizona history if he'd attended Arizona. MSU is a strong program with a great coach in JJ's backyard. We can all understand why he might like that situation. It's not like Miller doesn't have a lot to sell here too, though.

Kid is really talented and would be a great get. Divining the intent of 17 year olds is always difficult at best. We'll know when we know. Until then, it's fair to drool over his potential.

Beachcat97 · Post by **Beachcat97** » Thu Oct 29, 2015 5:10 pm

So just for fun, if JJ comes to AZ, are we looking at this lineup?

PJC
Trier
Smith
JJ
Ristic

Not sure LM is good enough to start from day one.

Merkin · Post by **Merkin** » Thu Oct 29, 2015 6:33 pm

Beachcat97 wrote:So just for fun, if JJ comes to AZ, are we looking at this lineup?

PJC
Trier
Smith
JJ
Ristic

Not sure LM is good enough to start from day one.

Talk is of him being a one and done, so starting is in the conversation. True stretch 4s the NBA drools over.

the real dill · Post by **the real dill** » Thu Oct 29, 2015 6:44 pm

97cats wrote:zero chance

From Eric Bossi:

Do not think that Arizona went to watch Kobi Simmons and as of my last check (yesterday) I don't think they have plans to. I think a call to check where he was in his recruitment and discuss coming out to see him got turned into them coming to see him and jumping back in and it took a life of it's own. I do not believe they have any current plans to go in and see Simmons.

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