lets talk '16

Beachcat97 · Post by **Beachcat97** » Thu Nov 12, 2015 4:49 pm

Whatever. Miller is a better coach than anyone UCLA can hire, and we're going to add JJ to our '16 class.

Two straight Pac titles, going on three.

Good time to be a 'Cat fan.

84Cat · Post by **84Cat** » Thu Nov 12, 2015 4:51 pm

hAHA, have fun playing for Alford!

Beachcat97 · Post by **Beachcat97** » Thu Nov 12, 2015 4:56 pm

84Cat wrote:hAHA, have fun playing for Alford!

Exactly. And we're adding JJ. Even with Ball and Leaf, our '16 class will still end up better.

Puerco · Post by **Puerco** » Fri Nov 13, 2015 6:29 am

Beachcat97 wrote:Leaf to UCLA.

As usual, they're getting our scraps.

Here's hoping JJ commits soon and reminds everyone which Pac school elite players choose.

Stop. Leaf is going to be a very good player, and you were as pissed as anyone else when he decommitted. We all know you hate UCLA, but Leaf is not Arizona's 'scraps'.

Longhorned · Post by **Longhorned** » Fri Nov 13, 2015 7:07 am

Leaf is fine but, with Miller as his coach, he would have been a player who needs time in college to work hard and develop into his potential. His circle doesn't see it that way, and so they bolted to UCLA to play for a coach that they feel is ready to put him on center stage and let him sing. With Markkanen, Miller has a player who is proven to thrive right now at a level that Leaf simply isn't ready for. With his perspective on International basketball, Miller also seems to think that Markkanen is second to none if you compare with the very top prospects in the '16 signing class.

Puerco · Post by **Puerco** » Fri Nov 13, 2015 7:43 am

No argument there, but framing Leaf as table scraps simply because you hate UCLA is disingenuous.

ChooChooCat · Post by **ChooChooCat** » Fri Nov 13, 2015 7:49 am

Leaf will be a very good player for UCLA, but Arizona did upgrade in the face of adversity.

UCLA has a very deep bench in regards to post players now. It will be interesting how Brycie's daddy navigates that situation.

Beachcat97 · Post by **Beachcat97** » Fri Nov 13, 2015 8:35 am

ChooChooCat wrote:Leaf will be a very good player for UCLA, but Arizona did upgrade in the face of adversity.

UCLA has a very deep bench in regards to post players now. It will be interesting how Brycie's daddy navigates that situation.

The power balance in the Pac is going to hinge on JJ's decision.

luteformayor2 · Post by **luteformayor2** » Fri Nov 13, 2015 9:24 am

Beachcat97 wrote:
ChooChooCat wrote:Leaf will be a very good player for UCLA, but Arizona did upgrade in the face of adversity.

UCLA has a very deep bench in regards to post players now. It will be interesting how Brycie's daddy navigates that situation.
The power balance in the Pac is going to hinge on JJ's decision.

No, it is not. The power balance is not balanced at all. It is Arizona followed far behind by others. This "balance" you speak of has not and will not hinge on a single recruit until UCLA proves it can actually turn it's top recruiting classes into results. The Kyle Anderson class should have been "that" class but well...we all saw that one pan out.

Spaceman Spiff · Post by **Spaceman Spiff** » Fri Nov 13, 2015 9:25 am

Puerco wrote:
Beachcat97 wrote:Leaf to UCLA.

As usual, they're getting our scraps.

Here's hoping JJ commits soon and reminds everyone which Pac school elite players choose.
Stop. Leaf is going to be a very good player, and you were as pissed as anyone else when he decommitted. We all know you hate UCLA, but Leaf is not Arizona's 'scraps'.

Leaf is pretty darn good. So is Markannen. Good for UCLA, good for us.

catgrad97 · Post by **catgrad97** » Fri Nov 13, 2015 9:31 am

I remember Pekka Markkanen's one year as a Jayhawk before he went to the Finnish League.

Clearly, he did not like the early post-Larry Brown era in Lawrence.

Beachcat97 · Post by **Beachcat97** » Fri Nov 13, 2015 9:58 am

luteformayor2 wrote:
Beachcat97 wrote:
ChooChooCat wrote:Leaf will be a very good player for UCLA, but Arizona did upgrade in the face of adversity.

UCLA has a very deep bench in regards to post players now. It will be interesting how Brycie's daddy navigates that situation.
The power balance in the Pac is going to hinge on JJ's decision.
No, it is not. The power balance is not balanced at all. It is Arizona followed far behind by others. This "balance" you speak of has not and will not hinge on a single recruit until UCLA proves it can actually turn it's top recruiting classes into results. The Kyle Anderson class should have been "that" class but well...we all saw that one pan out.

Only Adams and Anderson made a big impact from that Bruin class you noted. Shabazz's one season was pretty lackluster. And Parker hasn't lived up to expectations. So you're right: great recruiting classes do not guarantee wins.

But...I'm not the one hyping JJ. Others have done that far more extensively and more consistently. Some have even claimed he'd be the best player to ever come to AZ. So if JJ is anywhere near as good as some here are saying, then yes, his decision does influence the power balance. It gives us this lineup in '16:

PJC/Allen
Trier/Simon/Pitts
JJ/Smith
LM
Ristic/Comanche

With JJ in there, it gives us a dimension we've not had in the Miller era (maybe a little with D-Will), and it also gives us the Pac's best roster in '16.

Puerco · Post by **Puerco** » Mon Nov 16, 2015 5:27 am

It's pretty hard for a one and done player to drastically change something like the balance of power in a conference, don't you think? I mean unless you're talking about the balance of power in that one year?

3goggles · Post by **3goggles** » Wed Nov 18, 2015 7:40 am

Well Kobi Simmons put out his top 3 UNLV, tOSU and UK

Beachcat97 · Post by **Beachcat97** » Wed Nov 18, 2015 8:38 am

3goggles wrote:Well Kobi Simmons put out his top 3 UNLV, tOSU and UK

Don't think we were ever really a serious option for Kobi.

It's all about JJ.

Beachcat97 · Post by **Beachcat97** » Wed Nov 18, 2015 10:15 am

http://espn.go.com/recruiting/basketbal ... y-wildcats" target="_blank

Wow. Duke and UK are way out in front of the pack right now.

Spaceman Spiff · Post by **Spaceman Spiff** » Wed Nov 18, 2015 10:18 am

Beachcat97 wrote:http://espn.go.com/recruiting/basketbal ... y-wildcats

Wow. Duke and UK are way out in front of the pack right now.

Duke's recent recruiting dominance is interesting. Prior to 2010, K was not pulling the extremely highly rated recruits, but now he's morphed into Calipari 2.

Beachcat97 · Post by **Beachcat97** » Wed Nov 18, 2015 10:22 am

Spaceman Spiff wrote:
Beachcat97 wrote:http://espn.go.com/recruiting/basketbal ... y-wildcats

Wow. Duke and UK are way out in front of the pack right now.
Duke's recent recruiting dominance is interesting. Prior to 2010, K was not pulling the extremely highly rated recruits, but now he's morphed into Calipari 2.

Well, not sure what's changed, but K is on some kind of roll right now. He and Calipari are dominating recruiting in a way I've never seen before.

We really need JJ.

Merkin · Post by **Merkin** » Wed Nov 18, 2015 10:31 am

Spaceman Spiff wrote:
Beachcat97 wrote:http://espn.go.com/recruiting/basketbal ... y-wildcats

Wow. Duke and UK are way out in front of the pack right now.
Duke's recent recruiting dominance is interesting. Prior to 2010, K was not pulling the extremely highly rated recruits, but now he's morphed into Calipari 2.

That is very impressive, Cal has been the zen master but ratface has really turned things around. No more teams full of slow white 4 year guys.

But still only 1 ball and 200 minutes like every coach has to deal with.

Beachcat97 · Post by **Beachcat97** » Wed Nov 18, 2015 10:42 am

Merkin wrote:
Spaceman Spiff wrote:
Beachcat97 wrote:http://espn.go.com/recruiting/basketbal ... y-wildcats

Wow. Duke and UK are way out in front of the pack right now.
Duke's recent recruiting dominance is interesting. Prior to 2010, K was not pulling the extremely highly rated recruits, but now he's morphed into Calipari 2.

That is very impressive, Cal has been the zen master but ratface has really turned things around. No more teams full of slow white 4 year guys.

But still only 1 ball and 200 minutes like every coach has to deal with.

Sorta feel like K has entered this rarefied air in terms of his status and prestige. Multiple NCs, Olympic gold medals, quite arguably greatest men's coach of all time...guys just want to be a part of that, right? Wouldn't you, if you were an 18 year old phenom? And on top of that, Duke is an elite academic institution.

97cats · Post by **97cats** » Wed Nov 18, 2015 10:45 am

Certainly Duke is Duke. They're on TV more than Leave it to Beaver. Reruns.

Beachcat97 · Post by **Beachcat97** » Wed Nov 18, 2015 10:50 am

97cats wrote:Certainly Duke is Duke. They're on TV more than Leave it to Beaver. Reruns.

Haha...was Rome playing that one today?

Anyway, would you want your son to play for K or Cal? I lean heavily to the former, but maybe that's just me.

dirtbags · Post by **dirtbags** » Wed Nov 18, 2015 11:34 am

Beachcat97 wrote:Well, not sure what's changed, but K is on some kind of roll right now. He and Calipari are dominating recruiting in a way I've never seen before.
.
.
.

it might also be attributed to coach k finally embracing the one and done recruiting model. i realize it is also largely PR-speak since this has been going on at duke since like kyrie irving, but he says the staff goes after OAD recruits aggressively now whereas in the past they might have been a little bit ambivalent, opting for roster guys that they could develop over 3-4 years... or perhaps strongly encouraging players to stick around before heading for the league.

another possible factor might be that the recent exposure from coaching usa basketball is paying dividends, though it seems like coach k has been at it for a really long time now. either way, duke's working the recruiting trail hard.

salim'sheadband · Post by **salim'sheadband** » Wed Nov 18, 2015 11:38 am

We will very much need Jackson in order to keep pace next year. If we get Jackson and Smith back healthy, and retain who we have now, I'll take our squad against anyone.

Beachcat97 · Post by **Beachcat97** » Wed Nov 18, 2015 11:41 am

salim'sheadband wrote:We will very much need Jackson in order to keep pace next year. If we get Jackson and Smith back healthy, and retain who we have now, I'll take our squad against anyone.

Certainly in the Pac. If we get to see this lineup...

KA
AT
RS/JJ
JJ/LM
DR/LM

...that's a Pac champ if I ever saw one.

A lot hinges on JJ's decision, nationally as well as in the Pac next year.

CalStateTempe · Post by **CalStateTempe** » Wed Nov 18, 2015 11:42 am

K's clock is ticking, hence why he's doubling down in the one and dones vs 4 year projects.

He's an asshole, but he wins and has accomplished a lifetime of achievement. I'll never get over 2001, but I do respect the guy as a coach.

Wife is a huge fan after sitting next to him at church last year.

Edit: vastly pref duke to that smug program/university 20minute south on US-15.

Spaceman Spiff · Post by **Spaceman Spiff** » Wed Nov 18, 2015 11:48 am

salim'sheadband wrote:We will very much need Jackson in order to keep pace next year. If we get Jackson and Smith back healthy, and retain who we have now, I'll take our squad against anyone.

Subbing Jackson, Smith and Markannen for Zeus/Anderson/York increases the talent level and gives us a year of experience for every returner. Without Jackson, we get the experience, but the net talent drops a bit.

If we don't get Jackson, Smith and Simon have to produce next year.

Beachcat97 · Post by **Beachcat97** » Wed Nov 18, 2015 12:01 pm

Spaceman Spiff wrote:
salim'sheadband wrote:We will very much need Jackson in order to keep pace next year. If we get Jackson and Smith back healthy, and retain who we have now, I'll take our squad against anyone.
Subbing Jackson, Smith and Markannen for Zeus/Anderson/York increases the talent level and gives us a year of experience for every returner. Without Jackson, we get the experience, but the net talent drops a bit.

If we don't get Jackson, Smith and Simon have to produce next year.

Without JJ, we're not winning the Pac next season.

Spaceman Spiff · Post by **Spaceman Spiff** » Wed Nov 18, 2015 12:10 pm

Beachcat97 wrote:
Spaceman Spiff wrote:
salim'sheadband wrote:We will very much need Jackson in order to keep pace next year. If we get Jackson and Smith back healthy, and retain who we have now, I'll take our squad against anyone.
Subbing Jackson, Smith and Markannen for Zeus/Anderson/York increases the talent level and gives us a year of experience for every returner. Without Jackson, we get the experience, but the net talent drops a bit.

If we don't get Jackson, Smith and Simon have to produce next year.
Without JJ, we're not winning the Pac next season.

Let's not go saying stuff we can't take back.

Beachcat97 · Post by **Beachcat97** » Wed Nov 18, 2015 12:13 pm

Spaceman Spiff wrote:
Beachcat97 wrote:
Spaceman Spiff wrote:
salim'sheadband wrote:We will very much need Jackson in order to keep pace next year. If we get Jackson and Smith back healthy, and retain who we have now, I'll take our squad against anyone.
Subbing Jackson, Smith and Markannen for Zeus/Anderson/York increases the talent level and gives us a year of experience for every returner. Without Jackson, we get the experience, but the net talent drops a bit.

If we don't get Jackson, Smith and Simon have to produce next year.
Without JJ, we're not winning the Pac next season.
Let's not go saying stuff we can't take back.

I don't need to take that back. I think it's accurate. If JJ goes to MSU, we still have a good (not great) team next season, but other Pac schools are catching up recruiting-wise, so it makes sense that we may drop in the standings a little without JJ on the roster.

Spaceman Spiff · Post by **Spaceman Spiff** » Wed Nov 18, 2015 12:19 pm

C-Ristic, Jr.
PF-Markannen, Fr.
SF-Smith, Rs Fr.
SG-Trier, So.
PG-Allen, Sr.

Bench-Comanche, So. Pitts, Sr. PJC, Jr., Simon, So.

Look, we're better off with JJ in every way, but that lineup does not lack in talent or experience. It just means all those guys have to be productive. Add in a grad transfer possibility...we don't need to be conceding anything.

Beachcat97 · Post by **Beachcat97** » Wed Nov 18, 2015 12:51 pm

Spaceman Spiff wrote:C-Ristic, Jr.
PF-Markannen, Fr.
SF-Smith, Rs Fr.
SG-Trier, So.
PG-Allen, Sr.

Bench-Comanche, So. Pitts, Sr. PJC, Jr., Simon, So.

Look, we're better off with JJ in every way, but that lineup does not lack in talent or experience. It just means all those guys have to be productive. Add in a grad transfer possibility...we don't need to be conceding anything.

You're right, and believe me, I don't underestimate Miller's ability to work some magic with the roster you've projected.

I just want to see AZ maintain it's strong run of recruiting success. LM looks like a terrific prospect, but some are already calling JJ potentially the greatest player we'll ever have had. JJ is arguably the #1 player in '16, despite what ESPN says. It would be wonderful for the program to have him for a year.

We'll be fine without him. Just call me greedy, I guess.

rgdeuce · Post by **rgdeuce** » Wed Nov 18, 2015 12:53 pm

Beachcat97 wrote:
97cats wrote:Certainly Duke is Duke. They're on TV more than Leave it to Beaver. Reruns.
Haha...was Rome playing that one today?

Anyway, would you want your son to play for K or Cal? I lean heavily to the former, but maybe that's just me.

If he has aspirations to be in the NBA, Cal easily.

Who has Coach K put in the league that have turned into genuine all star level players or superstars, vs. the number of busts, ho hum guys, and guys who became solid role players? Stars/All Star caliber you got Kyrie, Okafor is showing he is headed there, Deng, Boozer, Brand, Grant Hill, Maggette, Laettner (was an all star but his career is largely regarded as disappointing based on being the 3rd pick, what he did in college, and the fact that Mourning and Shaq were the picks ahead of him), Parker is still TBD due to the injury but will probably get there. Unless I am missing someone, that is 8 guys, 9 if you give Parker the benefit of the doubt. You certainly got guys in the middle of the extremes like Battier and Reddick who fall under the very solid role players mark/quality starters mark. Busts/disappointments/ho hum guys/role players the list is pretty damn long.

Cal has had 4 #1 picks, five first rounders in one draft, two six player drafts, Go down Cal's list of just the last six years, even without a lot of time for a lot of the other guyss to find their legs and establish careers: Davis is a top 3 player in the league already, Wall, Cousins (all three who already are at a higher level than any Dukie sans Kyrie and Grant Hill, with Davis being better than any of them), Towns already is an all star level player, Eric Bledsoe, Brandon Knight looks to be knocking on the door. That matches the Duke 8 (or 9) above alone. I may be missing someone but damn, last six years vs last 23 going back to the Laettner pick. Could part of that be Coach K's lack of recruiting one and done guys til late? Probably, but lets not act like he hasn't brought in tons of McDonald's all americans for 25 plus years. My counter to that is, Cal spent time at lowly UMASS, then four or five years away from the college game due to an NBA job, Memphis wasn't a bad basketball school, but he certainly didn't take over a power program. It wasn't until he got to Kentucky where he had that huge platform that could match what Coach K built, but we saw Kentucky's struggles/underachievement after the Pitino era. And you can add Derrick Rose (better than any Duke player before he became a cripple) and Tyreke Evans as guys during his days from Memphis.

Slimeball or not, Cal gets it done. Better chance of playing for a title, playing against handfuls of future NBA players every day in practice, coach with a higher success rate of getting guys drafted in the first round and guys who are productive players in the league, and a guy who has developed multiple NBA all star level players and/or superstars.

Beachcat97 · Post by **Beachcat97** » Wed Nov 18, 2015 1:05 pm

rgdeuce wrote:
Beachcat97 wrote:
97cats wrote:Certainly Duke is Duke. They're on TV more than Leave it to Beaver. Reruns.
Haha...was Rome playing that one today?

Anyway, would you want your son to play for K or Cal? I lean heavily to the former, but maybe that's just me.
If he has aspirations to be in the NBA, Cal easily.

Who has Coach K put in the league that have turned into genuine all star level players or superstars, vs. the number of busts, ho hum guys, and guys who became solid role players? Stars/All Star caliber you got Kyrie, Okafor is showing he is headed there, Deng, Boozer, Brand, Grant Hill, Maggette, Laettner (was an all star but his career is largely regarded as disappointing based on being the 3rd pick, what he did in college, and the fact that Mourning and Shaq were the picks ahead of him), Parker is still TBD due to the injury but will probably get there. Unless I am missing someone, that is 8 guys, 9 if you give Parker the benefit of the doubt. You certainly got guys in the middle of the extremes like Battier and Reddick who fall under the very solid role players mark/quality starters mark. Busts/disappointments/ho hum guys/role players the list is pretty damn long.

Cal has had 4 #1 picks, five first rounders in one draft, two six player drafts, Go down Cal's list of just the last six years, even without a lot of time for a lot of the other guyss to find their legs and establish careers: Davis is a top 3 player in the league already, Wall, Cousins (all three who already are at a higher level than any Dukie sans Kyrie and Grant Hill, with Davis being better than any of them), Towns already is an all star level player, Eric Bledsoe, Brandon Knight looks to be knocking on the door. That matches the Duke 8 (or 9) above alone. I may be missing someone but damn, last six years vs last 23 going back to the Laettner pick. Could part of that be Coach K's lack of recruiting one and done guys til late? Probably, but lets not act like he hasn't brought in tons of McDonald's all americans for 25 plus years. My counter to that is, Cal spent time at lowly UMASS, then four or five years away from the college game due to an NBA job, Memphis wasn't a bad basketball school, but he certainly didn't take over a power program. It wasn't until he got to Kentucky where he had that huge platform that could match what Coach K built, but we saw Kentucky's struggles/underachievement after the Pitino era. And you can add Derrick Rose (better than any Duke player before he became a cripple) and Tyreke Evans as guys during his days from Memphis.

Slimeball or not, Cal gets it done. Better chance of playing for a title, playing against handfuls of future NBA players every day in practice, coach with a higher success rate of getting guys drafted in the first round and guys who are productive players in the league, and a guy who has developed multiple NBA all star level players and/or superstars.

Excellent post, rgd. I think I just admire the culture of hoops at Duke. Call it what you will, but Duke hoops is arguably the nation's premier D-1 athletic program, right there with the elite football programs (Bama, OSU). And K is the reason.

I respect Cal as well, in spite of his shadiness. I just prefer the culture of Duke to that of UK. Not sure if that has more to do with the coaches or with the academic status of those schools. I work at a university, so I may be biased.

rgdeuce · Post by **rgdeuce** » Wed Nov 18, 2015 1:10 pm

Beachcat97 wrote:
Without JJ, we're not winning the Pac next season.

I don't need to take that back. I think it's accurate. If JJ goes to MSU, we still have a good (not great) team next season, but other Pac schools are catching up recruiting-wise, so it makes sense that we may drop in the standings a little without JJ on the roster.

Who is catching up recruiting wise? Are u basing that off one Cuonzo class that fell onto his lap because of Rabb, a guy who decided to stay in his hometown to be close to his mother? He chooses his second choice, us, instead, Cal has nothing. In 2015, no one else in the Pac-12 signed a guy higher than Trier, Smith, or Simon.

2016 is still early. UCLA has Ball, Leaf (who decommitted from us for dumb reasons im sure) who we have replaced and likely upgraded with Lauri, and the 95th best prospect. Washington has Fultz, again, Lauri is probably the better recruit and he's going to a dumpster fire of a team. Who has Cuonzo signed in 2016? No one else in the conference besides UCLA, right at this very moment, has a better class. We get JJ, we are the top class in the conference. Arizona had the best class in the conference in 2014, 2013, and 2012.

As for us not winning the conference, who is going to be better? You know who we likely have coming back, and if Trier comes back a 2nd year, there is no way anyone is favored to beat Ristic, Lauri, Smith, Trier, Allen, PCJ, Pitts, and Simon. Cal is going to lose Wallace, Brown and likely Rabb. They better pray another freak class falls in their lap again if they want to beat us.

rgdeuce · Post by **rgdeuce** » Wed Nov 18, 2015 1:13 pm

I see your argument with Duke. If my kid is good enough for both of those programs, he clearly is a top level NBA prospect in most cases. If he is a guy who is a highly regarded college player with limited NBA potential (size, or whatever the issue may be), at that point I would maybe lean toward Duke for the education and Duke players typically being regarded as decent human beings after their time there (as much as we hate them).

Spaceman Spiff · Post by **Spaceman Spiff** » Wed Nov 18, 2015 1:15 pm

Beachcat97 wrote:
Spaceman Spiff wrote:C-Ristic, Jr.
PF-Markannen, Fr.
SF-Smith, Rs Fr.
SG-Trier, So.
PG-Allen, Sr.

Bench-Comanche, So. Pitts, Sr. PJC, Jr., Simon, So.

Look, we're better off with JJ in every way, but that lineup does not lack in talent or experience. It just means all those guys have to be productive. Add in a grad transfer possibility...we don't need to be conceding anything.
You're right, and believe me, I don't underestimate Miller's ability to work some magic with the roster you've projected.

I just want to see AZ maintain it's strong run of recruiting success. LM looks like a terrific prospect, but some are already calling JJ potentially the greatest player we'll ever have had. JJ is arguably the #1 player in '16, despite what ESPN says. It would be wonderful for the program to have him for a year.

We'll be fine without him. Just call me greedy, I guess.

Everybody wants JJ.

I understand the argument that K has embraced one and dones lately, but it just isn't that easy. Any school would embrace one and dones if they could pull the talent Calipari gets. Duke has historically been a good recruiting school but not a dominant one, but the switch in the last few years is a dominant recruiting school that pulls monster classes.

Beachcat97 · Post by **Beachcat97** » Wed Nov 18, 2015 1:21 pm

rgdeuce wrote:
Beachcat97 wrote:
As for us not winning the conference, who is going to be better? You know who we likely have coming back, and if Trier comes back a 2nd year, there is no way anyone is favored to beat Ristic, Lauri, Smith, Trier, Allen, PCJ, Pitts, and Simon. Cal is going to lose Wallace, Brown and likely Rabb. They better pray another freak class falls in their lap again if they want to beat us.

Cal won't be getting another freak class. Look at the '16 board; all but one player (JJ) is off the market.

UCLA will likely have a lineup of:

Holiday
Ball/Hamilton (what about Brycie??)
Bolden/Leaf
Leaf/Goloman
Welsh

That's pretty strong; they'll be deep too. So this would be one possible Pac team who's caught up. But again, with JJ in our lineup, we're still the favorite.

TucsonClip · Post by **TucsonClip** » Wed Nov 18, 2015 1:58 pm

To channel my inner-Gershon...

Did Cal put those guys into the NBA or were they already 1st round picks coming out of HS?

97cats · Post by **97cats** » Wed Nov 18, 2015 2:46 pm

Lonzo Ball will be the starting PG the moment he steps on the UCLA campus

Spaceman Spiff · Post by **Spaceman Spiff** » Wed Nov 18, 2015 2:49 pm

TucsonClip wrote:To channel my inner-Gershon...

Did Cal put those guys into the NBA or were they already 1st round picks coming out of HS?

Cal isn't as infallible as we believe on that point either. Daniel Orton, Doron Lamb, the Harrisons...heck, a fair number of the guys who left last year. They do not all succeed.

AD, Wall and Cousins are freak athletes who would have had a hard time failing regardless of college. I'm not ripping Cal, but we just forget about the ones who don't make it, just like how 5 years from now, you won't know where Dakari Johnson or Alex Poythress are.

mofo · Post by **mofo** » Wed Nov 18, 2015 4:01 pm

How much does good does 1 year under a college coach really do for a kid WRT his NBA star potential? Sure they're likely going to learn more than they have to that point, but looking at 10 year NBA vets, can you really chalk up whether or not they're superstars to what coach they had for a single year when they were essentially kids? I doubt it, at least not as much as seems to be assumed here.

I'd relate Cal's NBA successes to the number of McD's he's pulled in his years, and Top 10 recruits at that. While K has had his share for sure, most of what he had until recently were not one-and-done's, meaning they were not as naturally talented as all the one-and-done's Cal's pulled and hence less likely to be NBA stars. I don't think you can chalk that up to coaching, though it certainly doesn't hurt.

If everyone stayed in for 4 years of tutelage you could make a better case, especially since that would spread the talent out more.

Spaceman Spiff · Post by **Spaceman Spiff** » Wed Nov 18, 2015 4:25 pm

The biggest thing a coach does for a very highly rated guy who is one and done is getting them accustomed to the team concept. Big time recruits run everything in HS, but you can't do that in the NBA unless you are LeBron or MJ.

Calipari (and Sean Miller by the way) have been good at transitioning the highly rated guys into a team concept. The only one who really "failed" was Cousins, but he has a lot of mental issues. Breaking guys from the "I'm the man" into a team mindset is not always simple. See SJ last year or the year KY missed the tourney.

K has gotten good results with short timers and the team concept. UCLA's destruction under Howland is the example of what happens when a coach can't transition talented guys into the team concept.

The basic issue of NBA technical and physical skill...well, the kids either have that or they don't. A coach can influence skill development, but that has a lot to do with a player's drive.

ChooChooCat · Post by **ChooChooCat** » Tue Dec 01, 2015 6:31 am

So looks like this guy just got an offer from us and will be visiting in January:

http://www.scout.com/player/201439-harry-froling" target="_blank

Merkin · Post by **Merkin** » Tue Dec 01, 2015 7:44 am

ChooChooCat wrote:So looks like this guy just got an offer from us and will be visiting in January:

http://www.scout.com/player/201439-harry-froling" target="_blank

SMU seems to be very hard to beat

TheGreatCatsby · Post by **TheGreatCatsby** » Tue Dec 01, 2015 10:00 pm

Merkin wrote:
ChooChooCat wrote:So looks like this guy just got an offer from us and will be visiting in January:

http://www.scout.com/player/201439-harry-froling" target="_blank

SMU seems to be very hard to beat

Sean losing his mind. Going to coach k of the mids 2000s mode. Gotta pick it up!

Merkin · Post by **Merkin** » Wed Dec 02, 2015 9:54 am

TheGreatCatsby wrote:
Merkin wrote:
ChooChooCat wrote:So looks like this guy just got an offer from us and will be visiting in January:

http://www.scout.com/player/201439-harry-froling" target="_blank

SMU seems to be very hard to beat
Sean losing his mind. Going to coach k of the mids 2000s mode. Gotta pick it up!

Lute had some pretty bad years to. Remember the year is only recruit was Dion Broome (sp?). Never played a minute. But Lute was also plagued with some awful NCAA rules that punished schools that had defection rates to the NBA where you were limited to so many offers per 2 years and single year.

Besides the Pastner's Houston Pipeline never really panning out.

carolinacat · Post by **carolinacat** » Wed Dec 02, 2015 10:26 am

Is Jackson the only recruit Miller is banking on for the spring or are there other players as well?

If Jackson goes elsewhere, does that mean Miller will only have one player (Markannen) in the class or does he pick up a role player or two? Kind of rolling the dice on this springtime decision. Looks like feast or famine for recruiting this time. Let's hope to hell that Ray Smith comes back healthy and ready to be a star, that Comanche really makes an improvement to be a force in the paint and the rest of the players like Allen, Trier, Simon and Ristic all continue their improvement and maturation.

Spaceman Spiff · Post by **Spaceman Spiff** » Wed Dec 02, 2015 10:55 am

carolinacat wrote:Is Jackson the only recruit Miller is banking on for the spring or are there other players as well?

If Jackson goes elsewhere, does that mean Miller will only have one player (Markannen) in the class or does he pick up a role player or two? Kind of rolling the dice on this springtime decision. Looks like feast or famine for recruiting this time. Let's hope to hell that Ray Smith comes back healthy and ready to be a star, that Comanche really makes an improvement to be a force in the paint and the rest of the players like Allen, Trier, Simon and Ristic all continue their improvement and maturation.

I think we're still a part of Andrew Jones's recruitment, although I don't religiously follow that stuff.

That said, we lose Zeus, Anderson and York for sure, but really it's legit that everyone else may come back. Next year is not a huge class, but if there's a year where quality should exceed quantity, it's next year. We may have 8 rotation guys returning.

ASUHATER! · Post by **ASUHATER!** » Wed Dec 02, 2015 10:59 am

Yea we may only need a 3 maybe 4 man class. JJ, Markkanen and one or two other 3/4 star player role kinda guys would do the trick.

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