Pathway to the 2016 Pac 12 title

gumby · Post by **gumby** » Fri Jan 29, 2016 12:03 pm

With Trier taking to to the hole! Hell yeah!

FF or bust!

Beachcat97 · Post by **Beachcat97** » Fri Jan 29, 2016 1:49 pm

Impressions of this team...

Strengths:

-offense (3rd in Pac)
-FG% (1st in Pac)
-FT% (2nd in Pac)
-3FG% (3rd in Pac)

Weaknesses:
-defense (we rank low in the Pac in steals and blocks)
-late-game situations
-leadership

After last night's game, I was trying to think of this team's best played games of the season. The 2nd half vs. Gonzaga comes to mind, as does the 2nd half vs. UW. But has there really been a game where we played two halves as solidly as OR played vs. us last night? OR owned that game from start to finish. Even when we got out to that early lead, they kept calmly attacking and wearing us down, hitting threes, beating us down the court, finding holes in our defense. And they did it for two halves. I've yet to see this kind of sustained, steady, high-level performance from this AZ team.

I went into last night's game thinking it was a no-brainer that we'd defend our homecourt, get our swagger back, and win two games this week. Instead, I saw Oregon get anything they wanted on offense and Miller making Zeus his scapegoat on national TV.

WildcatStunner · Post by **WildcatStunner** » Fri Jan 29, 2016 8:06 pm

Beachcat97 wrote:Impressions of this team...

Strengths:

-offense (3rd in Pac)
-FG% (1st in Pac)
-FT% (2nd in Pac)
-3FG% (3rd in Pac)

Weaknesses:
-defense (we rank low in the Pac in steals and blocks)
-late-game situations
-leadership

After last night's game, I was trying to think of this team's best played games of the season. The 2nd half vs. Gonzaga comes to mind, as does the 2nd half vs. UW. But has there really been a game where we played two halves as solidly as OR played vs. us last night? OR owned that game from start to finish. Even when we got out to that early lead, they kept calmly attacking and wearing us down, hitting threes, beating us down the court, finding holes in our defense. And they did it for two halves. I've yet to see this kind of sustained, steady, high-level performance from this AZ team.

I went into last night's game thinking it was a no-brainer that we'd defend our homecourt, get our swagger back, and win two games this week. Instead, I saw Oregon get anything they wanted on offense and Miller making Zeus his scapegoat on national TV.

I think you can add ball security to weaknesses.

Beachcat97 · Post by **Beachcat97** » Sat Jan 30, 2016 10:07 am

I haven't looked up our turnover stats for the year, but yeah, from memory of games I've watched, this team does not take care of the ball. Maybe because we don't have a true PG? It's also been dismaying that PJC lacks some of those "true PG" skills that this team so sorely needs. PJC has his moments -- a nice alley oop or entry pass, 3 pointers -- but they're usually cancelled out by his numerous turnovers and low overall FG%. Was hoping for a bigger season from him.

KA has occasionally played well this year, and I'm glad he's on the team. I can't even imagine where this team would be without him. But I sorta feel like he should be our 6th man, not our starting PG, and he would be if TJ were still in college.

Newportcat · Post by **Newportcat** » Sat Jan 30, 2016 10:22 pm

pokinmik wrote:I'm with newport on this one. Maybe not as extreme as him, as I do enjoy winning the P12/P12 Tournament when it happens (who doesn't?), and I really do enjoy 'the ride' of the season and am excited for each and every game. The regular season is what prepares the team for March so it's hard to sort of separate the two. But at this point, all I want is to taste the Final Four again and hopefully raise another title banner.

Especially after dominating the regular season accolades the last couple years and suffering two more devastating E8 losses to add to the hopper. I won't give a flying f*ck if Oregon or whoever wins the P12 this year if we somehow end up going to the Final Four. And even though a Final Four is just one more game than an E8, the Final Four is infinitely better. It's just the way it is. The tourney is where the money is made, no doubt, and at Arizona we should expect Final Fours.

Thank you for making me believe that not everyone on these boards was crazy.

I was never saying don't enjoy watching Arizona and god knows I wish I lived in Tucson to be able to go to games, it's more who really cares about the PAC title outside of making sure you win enough games to get a decent seed in the tourney. We have won past two tourney titles and Sean Miller is still viewed as best coach never to make a final four. The very fact that he has a label attached to him shows how winning PAC titles means nothing and making final fours and winning national championships is everything and define your season and in the case of Miller his coaching legacy.

Let's get trier healthy and pray this team peaks in march when games really matter and mean something

Newportcat · Post by **Newportcat** » Sat Jan 30, 2016 10:23 pm

gumby wrote:After last night's game, I'm switching to the "meaningless foreplay" mindset.

See y'all in March.

Knew you would come around!

Beachcat97 · Post by **Beachcat97** » Sun Jan 31, 2016 10:24 am

Win our next 4 and we're right back in this thing.

UAEebs86 · Post by **UAEebs86** » Sun Jan 31, 2016 10:26 am

Would need lots of help since we've already lost the tiebreaker to the Ducks, not playing them again.

Beachcat97 · Post by **Beachcat97** » Sun Jan 31, 2016 1:23 pm

UAEebs86 wrote:Would need lots of help since we've already lost the tiebreaker to the Ducks, not playing them again.

Ducks aren't running the table. Not worried. OR still has road games vs. Cal, UCLA, and USC. No way they're winning all of those. Not even sure they're going to beat ASU today.

We just need to get on a winning streak. Having AT back will be huge. Here's hoping we can go 2-0 this week.

baconus66 · Post by **baconus66** » Sun Jan 31, 2016 1:35 pm

UAEebs86 wrote:Would need lots of help since we've already lost the tiebreaker to the Ducks, not playing them again.

I believe the Pac-12 does not use a tie breaker for conference champions, only tournament seeding. If we have the same record as Oregon we will co-champions but the 2 seed in the tourney. I'm not 100% sure, does anyone know?

Beachcat97 · Post by **Beachcat97** » Sun Jan 31, 2016 2:48 pm

I may be alone here, but the reg season Pac title means a lot more to me than the freaking Pac tourney, regardless of who they call the "Pac champion."

dcZONAfan · Post by **dcZONAfan** » Sun Jan 31, 2016 6:10 pm

Beachcat97 wrote:I may be alone here, but the reg season Pac title means a lot more to me than the freaking Pac tourney, regardless of who they call the "Pac champion."

Nah you're not alone, I agree 100%

Bangkok Wildcat · Post by **Bangkok Wildcat** » Sun Jan 31, 2016 6:48 pm

dcZONAfan wrote:
Beachcat97 wrote:I may be alone here, but the reg season Pac title means a lot more to me than the freaking Pac tourney, regardless of who they call the "Pac champion."
Nah you're not alone, I agree 100%

No way are you alone....anyone with half a brain realizes that the regular season champs are the real Pac12 champs and the tourney winners are the 'Pac12 Tourney Champions'.....huge difference and I value the regular season so much more.....BUT if you win the tourney then you show serious momentum going into March Madness so that is important as well......but secondary to the regular season.

I hate that some of the media get lazy and don't do a better job differentiating the two. We may very well win the P12 Tourney but I think we end up third or tied for third this year in the regular season....can't believe I just said this being such a homer but without an Oregon trip, I don't see us eclipsing them unless they totally implode.

Beachcat97 · Post by **Beachcat97** » Sun Jan 31, 2016 7:04 pm

Bangkok Wildcat wrote: We may very well win the P12 Tourney but I think we end up third or tied for third this year in the regular season....can't believe I just said this being such a homer but without an Oregon trip, I don't see us eclipsing them unless they totally implode.

I disagree. Not hating on OR, just pointing out that the Pac road is brutal this year. As I write this, OR is in a very close game @ASU. They still have to go to Cal, UCLA, and USC. As good as OR has looked at times, I just can't see them winning all of those games, especially not as these other teams are fighting for a tourney bid and their season.

So I do think AZ can get back in the Pac race if they actually win some close games instead of blowing it in the final seconds. We've got two road trips left, this week vs. the Washingtons and the final weekend of Feb. vs. Utah and CU. If we can win two of these four and not lose at home again, I think we'll be solidly in the top 3 in the Pac and perhaps still have a shot at the title, if the teams ahead of us struggle.

rgdeuce · Post by **rgdeuce** » Mon Feb 01, 2016 8:33 am

Oregon's just a really really good team that seems to have found their stride. Yes their schedule gets more difficult with both California road trips, but regardless of our effort, it still speaks volumes to come in to McKale and spank us. Especially being down 26-13 to open the gate. I expect them to take 3 of those 4 games and the only home game I possibly see them losing is Utah. Utah is on a roll themselves; I have watched a few of their recent games, they are looking like a team that should be ranked in the 15-20 range. They get us at their place and the oregon and so cal trips. If I recall correctly, our dumbass conference doesnt have a tiebreaker, so there is an outside shot for us to be co-champs IF Utah can go to Oregon and win and we beat Utah at their place and win out. At this point, I'm just happy with finishing the season strong, keeping everyone healthy, and finishing 2nd or 3rd. With all of the adversity of this season, and the ups and downs of our teams effort, nothing wrong with 2nd or 3rd in the conference, especially with how good and respected the conference is this season.

Olsondogg · Post by **Olsondogg** » Mon Feb 01, 2016 10:08 am

Win games

gumby · Post by **gumby** » Mon Feb 01, 2016 6:40 pm

Olsondogg wrote:Win games

Foreplay.

Puerco · Post by **Puerco** » Tue Feb 02, 2016 3:52 am

Newportcat wrote: Puerco, you and I disagree on many things and candidly are message board enemies which is fine. I bet like 95% of the people here, if we met in person and discussed U of A sports we would like each other and get along but message boards are not the best way to communicate.

Couple things, when you hang a banner you are celebrating success. When I hear the numbers 2005 no matter the circumstance I do not think of success. I want to puke and to this day hate Mustafa Shakur and Deron Williams.

If you do not think there is a MAJOR difference between a Final Four banner and Elite Eight one, I simply can not take anything you say seriously. If you would only maybe exchange a PAC Championship for a loss in the final Four, I also can not take anything you say seriously. We just live in different worlds (My world is where 95% of college basketball fans live today though)

I'm actually with you on the Elite Eight banner thing, Newport. Sorry I didn't make that clear. No, my beef is with your point that conference championships don't matter. IMO, the only banners you hang are Final Four, NC, and conference championship. The first two celebrate ultimate success over a three week period at the end of the year. The last signals season-long excellence.

If you wouldn't hang a conference championship banner in hoops, then you shouldn't want to hang a Rose Bowl banner in football, and both you and I know that's not true. So, if you hang a banner it's got to be important...

I think we'd get along just fine in person. You're just a glass 2/3's empty person.

Bangkok Wildcat · Post by **Bangkok Wildcat** » Tue Feb 02, 2016 5:42 am

Holy crap, been way too long since I've been back home and in McKale! We actually hang banners for Elite 8's??? WTF??? Unbelievable.....agree with others in this thread that P12 Season (not tourney IMHO), FF & NC banners should be the only ones we need to hang.

Damn, 'this is ARIZONA!'......just like the intro.....we don't need silly 'feel good' FF runner-up Elite 8 banners.....ridiculous IMHO.

Peace and BTFD

UAEebs86 · Post by **UAEebs86** » Tue Feb 02, 2016 7:42 am

Pretty sure they have Sweet Sixteen banners in McKale as well.

rgdeuce · Post by **rgdeuce** » Tue Feb 02, 2016 8:03 am

I am fine with sweet 16 and elite 8 banners where you have all the years you went that far on one banner. Same with conference and conference tournament championships. Final 4, runner up, and National Champions should be the only individual banners hanging in the Arena IMO. I am fine with how things are done for individual players too, though I wish retired jerseys were banners rather than posted on the back walls.. I also dont like having women's basketball, gymnastics, volleyball, or whatever the hell else hanging. McKale is Arizona men's basketball, everyone else is just using that place. Put them on a wall in the upper section.

ASUHATER! · Post by **ASUHATER!** » Tue Feb 02, 2016 8:04 am

Bangkok Wildcat wrote:Holy crap, been way too long since I've been back home and in McKale! We actually hang banners for Elite 8's??? WTF??? Unbelievable.....agree with others in this thread that P12 Season (not tourney IMHO), FF & NC banners should be the only ones we need to hang.

Damn, 'this is ARIZONA!'......just like the intro.....we don't need silly 'feel good' FF runner-up Elite 8 banners.....ridiculous IMHO.

Peace and BTFD

Been that way for at least 15 years if not longer.

Beachcat97 · Post by **Beachcat97** » Tue Feb 02, 2016 12:17 pm

E-8 and S-16 banners are generally not the mark of an elite program. I'd be fine with getting rid of them.

FFs, Pac reg season titles, and NCs...that's it for banners. I don't care how sparse that makes it look up in the rafters.

Spaceman Spiff · Post by **Spaceman Spiff** » Tue Feb 02, 2016 12:35 pm

Olsondogg wrote:Win games

Don't get ahead of yourself. First step is to score more points than the other team. Then comes the wins, then comes the money, then you get the power...

cats101 · Post by **cats101** » Tue Feb 02, 2016 12:45 pm

It's 1 banner with the years Arizona won the PAC 12, went to the S16 and E8, I don't see it as a big deal. The FF banners are hung separately. I imagine were going to need to make a few more FF before they take them down.

Beachcat97 · Post by **Beachcat97** » Tue Feb 02, 2016 2:17 pm

I still think we can win the reg season title. OR and USC have a harder back nine than we do. That Utah game will be big.

Bangkok Wildcat · Post by **Bangkok Wildcat** » Tue Feb 02, 2016 5:30 pm

cats101 wrote:It's 1 banner with the years Arizona won the PAC 12, went to the S16 and E8, I don't see it as a big deal. The FF banners are hung separately. I imagine were going to need to make a few more FF before they take them down.

Ahhh, that's different then.....I thought they were separate banners. Thanks!

Newportcat · Post by **Newportcat** » Tue Feb 09, 2016 11:00 pm

Bangkok Wildcat wrote:
cats101 wrote:It's 1 banner with the years Arizona won the PAC 12, went to the S16 and E8, I don't see it as a big deal. The FF banners are hung separately. I imagine were going to need to make a few more FF before they take them down.
Ahhh, that's different then.....I thought they were separate banners. Thanks!

Nope it is a massive deal. I have emailed Greg Byrne multiple times to take down the Elite 8 banner. I saw him at Staples Center before our Ohio State game and told him again that when I make me big donation to U of A keeping my family's legacy alive and well the stipulation will be that the Elite 8 banner comes down immediately.

He laughed but I was dead serious

It is a F*cking joke we have a banner inside McKale with 2005 and Elite 8 written on it. Can you imagine the poor guy that year who had to take down the banner and put 2005 on it. I bet he was real proud. What was it like when he had to order the numbers 2005. Imagine him walking into Michaels in Tucson and asking where the large white numbers are as he needs to get the numbers 2005 to put on the Elite 8 banner at McKale Center. I picture the store clerk showing him where they are and saying "Really, you really want to put the numbers 2005 up in McKale, is this some sort of sick joke, you need help making a large Mustafa jersey too as next thing you are going to tell me is we are retiring his number". Banners celebrate success. When I think Elite 8 2005 I feel immense pain and heartache.

I hate that F*cking banner just like how I hate Elite 8/Pac 12 Championship rings just like I hate participation trophys. Do you think our boys in Iraq and Afghanistan got Rings....that was for Puerco

If you met me in person, I am actually very positive. However, when it comes to sports I was raised a Lakers fan so to me Championship banners are all that matter and conference championships only matter to Suns fans.

If you ever walk into McKale and see the Elite 8 Banner gone one day you will either think two things. Thank you Newportcat or F*ck you Newportcat. But at the very least you wont have to watch a game at McKale and accidentally look up and see the numbers 2005 and puke in your mouth anymore

Puerco · Post by **Puerco** » Wed Feb 10, 2016 2:55 am

Pfft, you still haven't answered the question on whether you'd hang a banner for a PAC-12 football championship. Would you?

pokinmik · Post by **pokinmik** » Wed Feb 10, 2016 6:22 am

Newportcat wrote:
Bangkok Wildcat wrote:
cats101 wrote:It's 1 banner with the years Arizona won the PAC 12, went to the S16 and E8, I don't see it as a big deal. The FF banners are hung separately. I imagine were going to need to make a few more FF before they take them down.
Ahhh, that's different then.....I thought they were separate banners. Thanks!
Nope it is a massive deal. I have emailed Greg Byrne multiple times to take down the Elite 8 banner. I saw him at Staples Center before our Ohio State game and told him again that when I make me big donation to U of A keeping my family's legacy alive and well the stipulation will be that the Elite 8 banner comes down immediately.

He laughed but I was dead serious

It is a F*cking joke we have a banner inside McKale with 2005 and Elite 8 written on it. Can you imagine the poor guy that year who had to take down the banner and put 2005 on it. I bet he was real proud. What was it like when he had to order the numbers 2005. Imagine him walking into Michaels in Tucson and asking where the large white numbers are as he needs to get the numbers 2005 to put on the Elite 8 banner at McKale Center. I picture the store clerk showing him where they are and saying "Really, you really want to put the numbers 2005 up in McKale, is this some sort of sick joke, you need help making a large Mustafa jersey too as next thing you are going to tell me is we are retiring his number". Banners celebrate success. When I think Elite 8 2005 I feel immense pain and heartache.

I hate that F*cking banner just like how I hate Elite 8/Pac 12 Championship rings just like I hate participation trophys. Do you think our boys in Iraq and Afghanistan got Rings....that was for Puerco

If you met me in person, I am actually very positive. However, when it comes to sports I was raised a Lakers fan so to me Championship banners are all that matter and conference championships only matter to Suns fans.

If you ever walk into McKale and see the Elite 8 Banner gone one day you will either think two things. Thank you Newportcat or F*ck you Newportcat. But at the very least you wont have to watch a game at McKale and accidentally look up and see the numbers 2005 and puke in your mouth anymore

You're acting like the loss to Illinois was only extra, extra painful for you man. Other than health and family issues, what went down in the last 5 minutes of regulation was probably one of the worst things to ever happen to all of us. It still bugs everyone here like it does for you. I don't really like hearing or seeing the numbers 2, 0, 0, 5 in that specific order because of what happened that night...just as I'm sure you don't. But at the end of the day this is just a game played by kids. 2005 was a damn good team that deserves to be recognized even though Mustafa and co. sh*t the bed in that one game. Long story short...relax. Greg Byrne probably thinks you're a psychotic harassing him about E8 banners.

P.S. the Suns wish they had more than two conference championship banners and if they did they would definitely be hanging proudly!

Newportcat · Post by **Newportcat** » Wed Feb 10, 2016 7:57 am

Puerco wrote:Pfft, you still haven't answered the question on whether you'd hang a banner for a PAC-12 football championship. Would you?

F*ck yeah I would hang a banner if we won the PAC 12 Championship for Football as typically winning the PAC 12 conference in football usually means something in terms of the National Championship race, it is something we have never done, it is much much much harder to win the a PAC 12 championship in Basketball given the competition and the fact you have to win it during the regular season and then win a championship game now. It would also mean there is a great chance we are playing in the Rose Bowl which I would equate to making a final four in terms of prestige.

I dont have a problem with McKale having a banner listing all our conference championships for basketball because a conference championship is hard to win. A conference championship in basketball though does not guarentee you a Final Four, it does not even guarentee you will make it out of the first round. On the national stage it means nothing. It doesn't get you home court advantage, give you a bye, really is completely irrelevant at a program like Arizona the day after you win it. In college Baseball you win your conference, you probably are getting home field advantage for first round or two for college baseball world series which means something, same as softball. I guess I look at Arizona Basketball like I do the Lakers where conference championships are expected and nice but do they impact your ability to win a championship, well 1997 proved clearly no. I think now it is borderline impossible to win a National Championship in college football without winning the PAC 12 championship so it has significant meaning.

Look, you could lose every regular season game, still make your conference tourney, win that, then win 6 in a row to win the national championship with a losing record. What other sport could that happen in? To me, thats why regular season outside of working to get as high a seed as possible is irrelevant to me as the day the tourney starts no one cares anymore or will ever care about the regular season again.

Newportcat · Post by **Newportcat** » Wed Feb 10, 2016 8:00 am

pokinmik wrote:
Newportcat wrote:
Bangkok Wildcat wrote:
cats101 wrote:It's 1 banner with the years Arizona won the PAC 12, went to the S16 and E8, I don't see it as a big deal. The FF banners are hung separately. I imagine were going to need to make a few more FF before they take them down.
Ahhh, that's different then.....I thought they were separate banners. Thanks!
Nope it is a massive deal. I have emailed Greg Byrne multiple times to take down the Elite 8 banner. I saw him at Staples Center before our Ohio State game and told him again that when I make me big donation to U of A keeping my family's legacy alive and well the stipulation will be that the Elite 8 banner comes down immediately.

He laughed but I was dead serious

It is a F*cking joke we have a banner inside McKale with 2005 and Elite 8 written on it. Can you imagine the poor guy that year who had to take down the banner and put 2005 on it. I bet he was real proud. What was it like when he had to order the numbers 2005. Imagine him walking into Michaels in Tucson and asking where the large white numbers are as he needs to get the numbers 2005 to put on the Elite 8 banner at McKale Center. I picture the store clerk showing him where they are and saying "Really, you really want to put the numbers 2005 up in McKale, is this some sort of sick joke, you need help making a large Mustafa jersey too as next thing you are going to tell me is we are retiring his number". Banners celebrate success. When I think Elite 8 2005 I feel immense pain and heartache.

I hate that F*cking banner just like how I hate Elite 8/Pac 12 Championship rings just like I hate participation trophys. Do you think our boys in Iraq and Afghanistan got Rings....that was for Puerco

If you met me in person, I am actually very positive. However, when it comes to sports I was raised a Lakers fan so to me Championship banners are all that matter and conference championships only matter to Suns fans.

If you ever walk into McKale and see the Elite 8 Banner gone one day you will either think two things. Thank you Newportcat or F*ck you Newportcat. But at the very least you wont have to watch a game at McKale and accidentally look up and see the numbers 2005 and puke in your mouth anymore
You're acting like the loss to Illinois was only extra, extra painful for you man. Other than health and family issues, what went down in the last 5 minutes of regulation was probably one of the worst things to ever happen to all of us. It still bugs everyone here like it does for you. I don't really like hearing or seeing the numbers 2, 0, 0, 5 in that specific order because of what happened that night...just as I'm sure you don't. But at the end of the day this is just a game played by kids. 2005 was a damn good team that deserves to be recognized even though Mustafa and co. sh*t the bed in that one game. Long story short...relax. Greg Byrne probably thinks you're a psychotic harassing him about E8 banners.

P.S. the Suns wish they had more than two conference championship banners and if they did they would definitely be hanging proudly!

It is the worst 5 min of all of our lives except for health and family which I completely agree with...but it is just a game so relax

Lets do this, we should meet one day and I can get my iPhone out and we can watch on youtube those last 5 min and lets see how relaxed you are and how much you love that 2005 team

Puerco · Post by **Puerco** » Wed Feb 10, 2016 8:40 am

Newportcat wrote:
Puerco wrote:Pfft, you still haven't answered the question on whether you'd hang a banner for a PAC-12 football championship. Would you?
F*ck yeah I would hang a banner if we won the PAC 12 Championship for Football as typically winning the PAC 12 conference in football usually means something in terms of the National Championship race, it is something we have never done, it is much much much harder to win the a PAC 12 championship in Basketball given the competition and the fact you have to win it during the regular season and then win a championship game now. It would also mean there is a great chance we are playing in the Rose Bowl which I would equate to making a final four in terms of prestige.

I dont have a problem with McKale having a banner listing all our conference championships for basketball because a conference championship is hard to win. A conference championship in basketball though does not guarentee you a Final Four, it does not even guarentee you will make it out of the first round. On the national stage it means nothing. It doesn't get you home court advantage, give you a bye, really is completely irrelevant at a program like Arizona the day after you win it. In college Baseball you win your conference, you probably are getting home field advantage for first round or two for college baseball world series which means something, same as softball. I guess I look at Arizona Basketball like I do the Lakers where conference championships are expected and nice but do they impact your ability to win a championship, well 1997 proved clearly no. I think now it is borderline impossible to win a National Championship in college football without winning the PAC 12 championship so it has significant meaning.

Look, you could lose every regular season game, still make your conference tourney, win that, then win 6 in a row to win the national championship with a losing record. What other sport could that happen in? To me, thats why regular season outside of working to get as high a seed as possible is irrelevant to me as the day the tourney starts no one cares anymore or will ever care about the regular season again.

Except we obviously do care. More of us than 'no one'. Look, I appreciate your take. It's not far from my own. But you're speaking about your own feelings in an absolute way as if they apply to everyone. They don't.

On to the details.

1. Winning the conference championship is harder in football than basketball: Uh, no. It's certainly harder for programs like Arizona to win in football, but when was the last time USC won a conference championship in basketball? ASU, WSU? There is a suffocating layer of high quality programs in each sport which make it difficult to break through for all the others. But at the end of the day, it's no harder to be the best team amongst 12 in one or the other.
2. Winning the conference championship in basketball means nothing: If you're talking about it being relevant to winning the national championship, then I agree with you. I think it probably matches winning your division of the conference in football -- you've still got something to prove after, as we so painfully discovered in 2014. But in every other respect it means just as much. I think you eloquently touched on the reasons both of us feel like a football conference title feels more important -- we just don't do it very often. We've grown accustomed to success, so we expect it. You've grown up as a Lakers fan. Trust me, as a Suns fan I celebrate those Finals appearances, even though we didn't win! UA football is much the same as Suns basketball, sadly.

rgdeuce · Post by **rgdeuce** » Wed Feb 10, 2016 2:10 pm

LOL. Jesus dude. It killed all of us, but there are plenty of great teams who fell short of an elite 8. It is an accomplishment, even if the end result wasn't what we wanted and the game ended in the most disastrous way ever.

Jefe · Post by **Jefe** » Wed Feb 10, 2016 2:22 pm

It could be much, much worse

Puerco · Post by **Puerco** » Thu Feb 11, 2016 5:37 am

Thanks, Jefe. I can't believe they hang a banner for tourney appearances.

Bangkok Wildcat · Post by **Bangkok Wildcat** » Thu Feb 11, 2016 5:44 am

Puerco wrote:

Thanks, Jefe. I can't believe they hang a banner for tourney appearances.

I can't believe there is Women's Basketball! Talk about one of the most boring and non-feminine sports imaginable! Huge fan of women's soccer, tennis and swimming though

Newportcat · Post by **Newportcat** » Thu Feb 11, 2016 6:14 am

rgdeuce wrote:LOL. Jesus dude. It killed all of us, but there are plenty of great teams who fell short of an elite 8. It is an accomplishment, even if the end result wasn't what we wanted and the game ended in the most disastrous way ever.

For a program like Arizona, making an Elite 8 should not be viewed as an accomplishment.

dcZONAfan · Post by **dcZONAfan** » Thu Feb 11, 2016 6:49 am

And placing so much importance and value on one game is shortsighted IMO

ASUHATER! · Post by **ASUHATER!** » Thu Feb 11, 2016 7:33 am

Newportcat wrote:
rgdeuce wrote:LOL. Jesus dude. It killed all of us, but there are plenty of great teams who fell short of an elite 8. It is an accomplishment, even if the end result wasn't what we wanted and the game ended in the most disastrous way ever.
For a program like Arizona, making an Elite 8 should not be viewed as an accomplishment.

We haven't made a final four in 15 years. We're an elite 8/sweet 16 kinda program. Not an expecting a final four kinda program.

rgdeuce · Post by **rgdeuce** » Thu Feb 11, 2016 8:27 am

Newportcat wrote:
rgdeuce wrote:LOL. Jesus dude. It killed all of us, but there are plenty of great teams who fell short of an elite 8. It is an accomplishment, even if the end result wasn't what we wanted and the game ended in the most disastrous way ever.
For a program like Arizona, making an Elite 8 should not be viewed as an accomplishment.

The only thing keeping us from being a Duke, Kansas, Kentucky, UNC program is the lack of big banners, especially since 2001. If we had those, I would agree with you. We can reassess once we start making a few more final fours. An elite 8 is an accomplishment for pretty much any other team outside of what I named, and maybe like a Michigan State (who have been spoiled under Izzo) and Louisville. Nothing wrong with being a 6-10 biggest program and having some elite 8 stuff hanging.

ASUHATER! · Post by **ASUHATER!** » Thu Feb 11, 2016 8:30 am

Yeah we need another title or two and 3-4 final fours before we can take down the s16 and e8 banners.

Merkin · Post by **Merkin** » Thu Feb 11, 2016 8:37 am

Bangkok Wildcat wrote:
Puerco wrote:

Thanks, Jefe. I can't believe they hang a banner for tourney appearances.
I can't believe there is Women's Basketball! Talk about one of the most boring and non-feminine sports imaginable! Huge fan of women's soccer, tennis and swimming though

The UA women's basketball team is jealous about not having any banners.

But no softball BW?

Beachcat97 · Post by **Beachcat97** » Thu Feb 11, 2016 8:48 am

ASUHATER! wrote: We haven't made a final four in 15 years. We're an elite 8/sweet 16 kinda program. Not an expecting a final four kinda program.

Wow. The truth hurts. I agree completely, but I also don't think we should hang Elite 8 or S-16 banners. Maybe that lack of banners will get our guys to play harder and hang a few.

CBCat · Post by **CBCat** » Thu Feb 11, 2016 8:49 am

ASUHATER! wrote:
Newportcat wrote:
rgdeuce wrote:LOL. Jesus dude. It killed all of us, but there are plenty of great teams who fell short of an elite 8. It is an accomplishment, even if the end result wasn't what we wanted and the game ended in the most disastrous way ever.
For a program like Arizona, making an Elite 8 should not be viewed as an accomplishment.
We haven't made a final four in 15 years. We're an elite 8/sweet 16 kinda program. Not an expecting a final four kinda program.

Dude seriously? we should expect to win it every year. You need to read Wally Minto. Be-Do-Have.
Hope it helps you.
Being it always comes before the doing it.
There was a time every four years for 16 yrs we made the final four. Always expect Final Fours. Anything less trashes what and who came before and lessens our program, the very one you say you root for!

ASUHATER! · Post by **ASUHATER!** » Thu Feb 11, 2016 8:58 am

CBCat wrote:
ASUHATER! wrote:
Newportcat wrote:
rgdeuce wrote:LOL. Jesus dude. It killed all of us, but there are plenty of great teams who fell short of an elite 8. It is an accomplishment, even if the end result wasn't what we wanted and the game ended in the most disastrous way ever.
For a program like Arizona, making an Elite 8 should not be viewed as an accomplishment.
We haven't made a final four in 15 years. We're an elite 8/sweet 16 kinda program. Not an expecting a final four kinda program.
Dude seriously? we should expect to win it every year. You need to read Wally Minto. Be-Do-Have.
Hope it helps you.
Being it always comes before the doing it.
There was a time every four years for 16 yrs we made the final four. Always expect Final Fours. Anything less trashes what and who came before and lessens our program, the very one you say you root for!

Only a few very select programs like Kentucky and Duke can expect final fours every year. When you haven't been since before 9/11 it's borderline insanity to expect it.

Beachcat97 · Post by **Beachcat97** » Thu Feb 11, 2016 9:07 am

ASUHATER! wrote:
Only a few very select programs like Kentucky and Duke can expect final fours every year. When you haven't been since before 9/11 it's borderline insanity to expect it.

Actually, I disagree with this. AZ has the infrastructure, reputation, and status to break into that small, elite group. It just hasn't happened under CSM. With Lute, we were there. If a few things break the right way (JJ commits, Trier is back, RS is 100%, LM is the real deal) next season, we could very well be on our way.

Spaceman Spiff · Post by **Spaceman Spiff** » Thu Feb 11, 2016 10:07 am

Beachcat97 wrote:
ASUHATER! wrote: We haven't made a final four in 15 years. We're an elite 8/sweet 16 kinda program. Not an expecting a final four kinda program.
Wow. The truth hurts. I agree completely, but I also don't think we should hang Elite 8 or S-16 banners. Maybe that lack of banners will get our guys to play harder and hang a few.

We're really not. I suck at math, but having 5 Elite Eight appearances and zero FF's is extremely low probability. Especially given that those 5 games were evenly matched, with 4 being decided by 3 points or less.

Off the top of my head, I would wager that at least 75% of FF participants in that time period have fewer EE appearances. Are they "final four" programs any more than we are?

We just lose in the EE all the ****ing time. It's depressing as hell.

ASUHATER! · Post by **ASUHATER!** » Thu Feb 11, 2016 10:12 am

Spaceman Spiff wrote:
Beachcat97 wrote:
ASUHATER! wrote: We haven't made a final four in 15 years. We're an elite 8/sweet 16 kinda program. Not an expecting a final four kinda program.
Wow. The truth hurts. I agree completely, but I also don't think we should hang Elite 8 or S-16 banners. Maybe that lack of banners will get our guys to play harder and hang a few.
We're really not. I suck at math, but having 5 Elite Eight appearances and zero FF's is extremely low probability. Especially given that those 5 games were evenly matched, with 4 being decided by 3 points or less.

Off the top of my head, I would wager that at least 75% of FF participants in that time period have fewer EE appearances. Are they "final four" programs any more than we are?

We just lose in the EE all the ****ing time. It's depressing as hell.

Yep. 1-6 in our last 7 elite 8s.

Beachcat97 · Post by **Beachcat97** » Thu Feb 11, 2016 10:32 am

ASUHATER! wrote: Yep. 1-6 in our last 7 elite 8s.

This is so damn crazy. If that number is even at 3-6, it dramatically changes the perception/status of our program. I'd bet no other program has as dismal a record as ours in E-8s over the past few decades.

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