2016 Pac12 Men's Basketball Tournament

[Beachcat97]

No way they're beating OR tomorrow. I just hope they keep it respectable and don't get blown out. The outcome of this game will definitely infuence our seed.

[AZCatGirl]

Good try by the Beavers. Hope they make the tournament.

[Bangkok Wildcat]

Good try by the Beavers. Hope they make the tournament.

Agreed AZCatGirl......and have Tinkle Jr. playing as well. Can't wait to see how many P12 Teams make it.

Am really nervous about Oregon tomorrow.....especially after our lame 2'nd half......I know this is a 'down year' for us with all the talent we lost and not having Ray Smith at the 3.....but my expectations are to always win the P12 Season and Tourney.......coming in tied for 3rd in the Season was disappointing so I really want the tourney championship.....recenge on Oregon and Utah too.

Next step, Duck Hunting! Bear Down and get it done Wildcats.

[pokinmik]

Some of you are putting way too much stock into that 2nd half yesterday. Rado was making some crazy threes late and of course they were going to be uber-aggressive/desperate as fuck going to the hole while our players didn't really want to foul to keep stopping the clock. Some of our losses throughout the season were similar, get in a deep hole, valiantly fight back to make it seem somewhat close, but ultimately not enough to actually get a win. It happens all the time.

I'm very happy we beat the piss out of those Rado bastards and Scott's Greg Oden/gigantism looking face. A second half surge from a good, desperate team isn't ruining my victory joy. I think we play well tonight and get the win. #revengetour2016

[Bangkok Wildcat]

Some of you are putting way too much stock into that 2nd half yesterday. Rado was making some crazy threes late and of course they were going to be uber-aggressive/desperate as fuck going to the hole while our players didn't really want to foul to keep stopping the clock. Some of our losses throughout the season were similar, get in a deep hole, valiantly fight back to make it seem somewhat close, but ultimately not enough to actually get a win. It happens all the time.

I'm very happy we beat the piss out of those Rado bastards and Scott's Greg Oden/gigantism looking face. A second half surge from a good, desperate team isn't ruining my victory joy. I think we play well tonight and get the win. #revengetour2016

+1 Fair enough pokinmilk......'so you're saying there is a chance?' . Agreed on us definitely being capable of beating OU tomorrow! Bear Down and make it so number 1 .

Wouldn't it be awesome to break Oregon's hearts again like last year? Gabe has to bring his 'A' game though....,sounded like he knew that in his post-Rado interview.

[ChooChooCat]

Some of you are putting way too much stock into that 2nd half yesterday. Rado was making some crazy threes late and of course they were going to be uber-aggressive/desperate as fuck going to the hole while our players didn't really want to foul to keep stopping the clock. Some of our losses throughout the season were similar, get in a deep hole, valiantly fight back to make it seem somewhat close, but ultimately not enough to actually get a win. It happens all the time.

I'm very happy we beat the piss out of those Rado bastards and Scott's Greg Oden/gigantism looking face. A second half surge from a good, desperate team isn't ruining my victory joy. I think we play well tonight and get the win. #revengetour2016

I put way more stock into how badly they handed our asses to us on the boards yesterday, especially in the second half. Zeus and Anderson can't get every board, we need the guards to start holding their own already.

[ChooChooCat]

Here is a radical idea - when you finally find a mix of players that has it going on like in the first half (with Trier, Kadeem, York, Tarc, RA and some Comanche torching Colorado) why not consider a more energy-conserving defensive style and actually keep that lineup on the floor instead of subbing them out to cool off on the bench while PJC and Ristic come in at the pre-programmed 4-minute game segment? The other team certainly wouldn't have prepared for any defense than Pack Line, another advantage.

I know the answer is DWWD but I dream the impossible dream

Well that's a seriously moronic radical idea, but hey to each his own.

[Chicat]

If only Coach Miller would have listened to this RiseAndFlail sock, Arizona would have beaten Colorado yesterday.

[pokinmik]

Some of you are putting way too much stock into that 2nd half yesterday. Rado was making some crazy threes late and of course they were going to be uber-aggressive/desperate as fuck going to the hole while our players didn't really want to foul to keep stopping the clock. Some of our losses throughout the season were similar, get in a deep hole, valiantly fight back to make it seem somewhat close, but ultimately not enough to actually get a win. It happens all the time.

I'm very happy we beat the piss out of those Rado bastards and Scott's Greg Oden/gigantism looking face. A second half surge from a good, desperate team isn't ruining my victory joy. I think we play well tonight and get the win. #revengetour2016

I put way more stock into how badly they handed our asses to us on the boards yesterday, especially in the second half. Zeus and Anderson can't get every board, we need the guards to start holding their own already.

I definitely agree with you on that. Especially going up against Oregon tonight. Time for everyone to hit the glass hard.

[VegasCatFan]

I rewatched the game on tape and my most important observation is every time the action moves to the left, I'm on TV every single time. I'm even with the baseline three rows up. Look for the chubby old man in red.

[Chicat]

I rewatched the game on tape and my most important observation is every time the action moves to the left, I'm on TV every single time. I'm even with the baseline three rows up. Look for the chubby old man in red.

I saw you. Didn't look like you were bearing down adequately in the 2nd half.

#HonorTheProcess
#NastinessIsRequired

[ASUHATER!]

All chalk so far

[97cats]

wearin the right unis tonight -- I expect Arizona to play very well.

[azgreg]

wearin the right unis tonight -- I expect Arizona to play very well.

You like these ones do you?

So do I.

[VegasCatFan]

I rewatched the game on tape and my most important observation is every time the action moves to the left, I'm on TV every single time. I'm even with the baseline three rows up. Look for the chubby old man in red.

I saw you. Didn't look like you were bearing down adequately in the 2nd half.

#HonorTheProcess
#NastinessIsRequired

I tried. I must be a bad fan. LOL

[rgdeuce]

you know, the team has played 32 games and not in a single game have they played two even halves. This team got outscored by 13 points in the 2H to a RPI#30 Colorado team on basically our home floor MGM packed to the brim with Arizona fans plus alcohol. Not, good. (the 2H part I mean)

Miller blames "poor effort". He says that a lot so I'm starting to think these players just a bunch of lazy bums are they not?

So what's the way forward then, keep trying to squeeze more blood from the rock and demand MOAR EFFORT or demand that Ryan Anderson morph into Aaron Gordon on command?! nonsense. There is a physical limit to sustained defensive intensity, its science.

Here is a radical idea - when you finally find a mix of players that has it going on like in the first half (with Trier, Kadeem, York, Tarc, RA and some Comanche torching Colorado) why not consider a more energy-conserving defensive style and actually keep that lineup on the floor instead of subbing them out to cool off on the bench while PJC and Ristic come in at the pre-programmed 4-minute game segment? The other team certainly wouldn't have prepared for any defense than Pack Line, another advantage.

I know the answer is DWWD but I dream the impossible dream

They played both halves on senior night, but outside of that, maybe one or two games? And it was effort last night, or did the team just not pop it into neutral and try to coast down the mountain in the 2nd half? They also did the same after the game was 13-2 or whatever it was. I got into it with another member in the other thread about effort being the biggest problem with the team. Some are gonna disagree, but this has been Millers constant complaint all year and I agree with him on it 100%. This team does not have the luxury of sitting a Stanley Johnson down for bad effort and having Rondae, TJ, Bash, and Zeus still on the floor and a Gabe York on the bench to spell him. Of the bench rotation, two of them can have extreme physical limitations against certain teams, PJC's size and Ristic's inability to keep up with quicker or more mobile bigs. There aren't many guys Tollefsen can hang with on D. Simon is still raw and learning. Chance has been a guy to step up and do a nice job, a pleasant surprise. Add all of the injuries and Pitts's "issue" to the mix and it has been worse. And guys still need rest and as much as many would like to have that first team out there for the first 8 minutes, it's nice to have your best with legs left for the last four minutes of the second half.

When this team is focused and working hard, there aren't many teams better. Fully understand the nature of runs in basketball and not being to keep the throttle fully open and the focus for all 40. Happens to every team. But this team really doesn't even give 20 hard minutes. There have been a lot of games where they have only given 6, 7, 8 minutes and go through the motions the rest of the game. In terms of energy conserving defense, I'm sure you haven't seen many Duke games this year. You know when Duke gets into trouble? They are thin on depth and when their big players get into foul trouble or get tired, guess what they have to bust out with? A zone defense to protect players. That is when they get killed, and homer Jay Bilas said the EXACT same thing the other night. Man to man is the best defense in terms of results, for rebounding success, and for individual and team development. The pack line is our identity and it works, it has been proven since Miller came here. There is simply no other way on earth how you can explain THIS team ranking 34th in adjusted defense right now.

[Chicat]

Some of you are putting way too much stock into that 2nd half yesterday. Rado was making some crazy threes late and of course they were going to be uber-aggressive/desperate as fuck going to the hole while our players didn't really want to foul to keep stopping the clock. Some of our losses throughout the season were similar, get in a deep hole, valiantly fight back to make it seem somewhat close, but ultimately not enough to actually get a win. It happens all the time.

I'm very happy we beat the piss out of those Rado bastards and Scott's Greg Oden/gigantism looking face. A second half surge from a good, desperate team isn't ruining my victory joy. I think we play well tonight and get the win. #revengetour2016

Outside of the three minutes between 4:00 and 1:00 left on the clock, I really don't think we played that bad. We maintained a double digit lead through the majority of the 2nd half, and did just enough to win in the foul fest coming down the stretch.

I know a lot of it was freebies, but we scored 40 points in the last 14 minutes of the game. So it couldn't have been all bad...

[rgdeuce]

No way they're beating OR tomorrow. I just hope they keep it respectable and don't get blown out. The outcome of this game will definitely infuence our seed.

You realize how close that Oregon/Washington game was last night? One play is pretty much what swung it in Oregon's favor. We do need to show up and bring our A game, because Oregon will be bringing theirs.

[azgreg]

[pokinmik]

No way they're beating OR tomorrow. I just hope they keep it respectable and don't get blown out. The outcome of this game will definitely infuence our seed.

You realize how close that Oregon/Washington game was last night? One play is pretty much what swung it in Oregon's favor. We do need to show up and bring our A game, because Oregon will be bringing theirs.

I'm guessing Beachcat is doing the stupid reverse jinx thing or who the hell knows with him, but let's remember we didn't have Trier our first go-round with the Ducks. The Ducks aren't Kentucky 2015. It's gonna be a battle for sure but I think our guys are up for the challenge.

[RiseAndFire]

i don't disagree the reason for uneven halves is effort. but it's s cop out to keep blaming the players.

ask why they can't sustain the effort

fans blame the players for being lazy bums
I think it's because players can't physically sustain 40 mins of crazy intense D effort whole also trying to score points. You reach a point where your offense.and/or your defense falter. This is not a lineup full of AG and RHJ clones

millers the coach tho he should figure it out. all year long no adjustment just DWWD

so far that approach maxes out at the EE

[azcat49]

The cats gave up 25 offensive rebounds in the CU game. That is unreal. Been a long time since we got pounded like that. That is on the guys on the floor.

Tonight we need to find a way to guard Boushe. He is a tough match up along with Dillon. Oregon is just so efficient on offense and they don't waste posessions. They also had 17 offensive boards.

All these teams left can play in a regional final. I saw at the book it's a pick em game. Going to be fun tonight

[WildcatStunner]

I'm waiting for RiseandFife to say we should play zone defense. All the zone Miller tried to get the. To play did not yield positive results. The team just has to limit offensive boards and avoid prolonged scoring droughts.

[Chicat]

i don't disagree the reason for uneven halves is effort. but it's s cop out to keep blaming the players.

ask why they can't sustain the effort

fans blame the players for being lazy bums
I think it's because players can't physically sustain 40 mins of crazy intense D effort whole also trying to score points. You reach a point where your offense.and/or your defense falter. This is not a lineup full of AG and RHJ clones

millers the coach tho he should figure it out. all year long no adjustment just DWWD

so far that approach maxes out at the EE

RiseAndFart, you left a skidmark.

Three Elite Eights in the past 5 years. How many other teams would kill for that kind of success?

Most wins in all of college basketball the last 3 years.

Oh, and we did bust out of a zone this year, in a couple of games. But keep pretending that Coach Miller is this monolith who only knows how to teach one thing, and that it's that one thing that's keeping us from multiple national championships.

[ChooChooCat]

I think it's because players can't physically sustain 40 mins of crazy intense D effort whole also trying to score points. Y

You know what, you may actually be on to something here! Is that why no player on the team plays 40 minutes and there are substitutions in games to give players rest? *GASP*

[Spaceman Spiff]

i don't disagree the reason for uneven halves is effort. but it's s cop out to keep blaming the players.

ask why they can't sustain the effort

fans blame the players for being lazy bums
I think it's because players can't physically sustain 40 mins of crazy intense D effort whole also trying to score points. You reach a point where your offense.and/or your defense falter. This is not a lineup full of AG and RHJ clones

millers the coach tho he should figure it out. all year long no adjustment just DWWD

so far that approach maxes out at the EE

So, to recap your points:

-We should play less intense D, because playing too hard makes you tired.
-We should not sub every 4 minutes, because constantly changing playing time won't make any player tired.
-We should take fewer timeouts, which will make players more tired.

So, in summary, we should take one step to keep players from getting tired, then two to make them more tired.

[catgrad97]

They played both halves on senior night, but outside of that, maybe one or two games? And it was effort last night, or did the team just not pop it into neutral and try to coast down the mountain in the 2nd half? They also did the same after the game was 13-2 or whatever it was. I got into it with another member in the other thread about effort being the biggest problem with the team. Some are gonna disagree, but this has been Millers constant complaint all year and I agree with him on it 100%. This team does not have the luxury of sitting a Stanley Johnson down for bad effort and having Rondae, TJ, Bash, and Zeus still on the floor and a Gabe York on the bench to spell him. Of the bench rotation, two of them can have extreme physical limitations against certain teams, PJC's size and Ristic's inability to keep up with quicker or more mobile bigs. There aren't many guys Tollefsen can hang with on D. Simon is still raw and learning. Chance has been a guy to step up and do a nice job, a pleasant surprise. Add all of the injuries and Pitts's "issue" to the mix and it has been worse. And guys still need rest and as much as many would like to have that first team out there for the first 8 minutes, it's nice to have your best with legs left for the last four minutes of the second half.

When this team is focused and working hard, there aren't many teams better. Fully understand the nature of runs in basketball and not being to keep the throttle fully open and the focus for all 40. Happens to every team. But this team really doesn't even give 20 hard minutes. There have been a lot of games where they have only given 6, 7, 8 minutes and go through the motions the rest of the game. In terms of energy conserving defense, I'm sure you haven't seen many Duke games this year. You know when Duke gets into trouble? They are thin on depth and when their big players get into foul trouble or get tired, guess what they have to bust out with? A zone defense to protect players. That is when they get killed, and homer Jay Bilas said the EXACT same thing the other night. Man to man is the best defense in terms of results, for rebounding success, and for individual and team development. The pack line is our identity and it works, it has been proven since Miller came here. There is simply no other way on earth how you can explain THIS team ranking 34th in adjusted defense right now.

These are the points this thread should be focusing on--not trolling or apologizing for blowing 20 points of a 22-point lead.

I heard York's reflective comments on the team losing the lead in the postgame interview. Yes, he's nice, and he says all the right things. But does he really think that, if this team has been a one-half team all season, that it's going to magically "put together" its first full game tonight?

We're too limited this year, personnel-wise, to flip that big of a switch. Tollefsen has all the moves of a wallaby on D. Zeus continues to miss bunnies and fumble away great ball position and rebounds he has earned to smaller players and cheap hack-and-slap reaching. Yes, he affects the game in so many other positive ways, but there's only so many times he can complain to the refs before everybody loses patience.

PJC is just too slow and gives up too much size around screens to hang on defense for full possessions, much less extended minutes. And people still think this kid is going to start next year over Allen, much less our five-stars?

Allen's jumper is sporadic. Even York loses focus when his shot is not falling.

The problem isn't Miller. The problem is, he can only push these kids so hard in practice. They aren't being pushed by anybody much behind them. So on the floor in games, they don't have much motivation to stay focused, run the defense and run their cuts on offense the way they're coached to.

For the two senior starters on this team, in March, to expect help from anywhere else it hasn't come from already is, to put it kindly, wishful thinking. And the Cats are going to need the game of their year tonight to beat Oregon.

[azcat49]

I think CC should play a bigger role today and be the first big off the bench. He can guard Boushe IMO and needs to

[Lute4God]

http://www.cbssports.com/collegebasketb ... _WASH@OREG" target="_blank

Oregons starters even more gassed than ours 37 35 33 30 and 30 minutes played. Only 6 players producing anything for them with Bell a non factor in 12 minutes.

Come out on fire and push them. Again need a performance like the Cal game on defense from our guards to win this game - but with rebounding too!

[azcat49]

Saw Bell in the elevator Wed night. Asked him what was up and he said they would beat our ass tonight. Wouldn't expect him to say anything else.

[PennZona20]

I agree CC could be huge tonight.

This isn't a good matchup for Dusan. Oregon will destroy him on D up top w ball screens and isos. Even Zeus may have trouble in M2M D tonight.

CC is the x-factor for us on D tonight. He might be the difference. Also need a big game from Trier who didn't play last time. I expect one tho, he's our most consistent guy these days.

[catgrad97]

I'm honestly looking very forward to Comanche Unleashed--whether it's tonight, tomorrow, next week or next year.

But if Zeus can't use his size to full advantage over the stick Boucher tonight, it's never going to happen.

[azcat49]

Anderson will be on Boucher tonight I bet, at least to start. Dude hit at least 3 three's. Oregon is just a match up problem for us this year

[catgrad97]

I'd put Anderson on Elgin Cook or Dillon Brooks and Zeus out on Boucher. Pound it on him and see if we can get him in early foul trouble like with Josh Scott. Oregon has no depth at center, even if the Ducks do have three viable guards and four quick forwards 6'6" to 6'8".

This isn't Frank Kaminsky we're talking about here: If Zeus can't use four years of hedging high on screens to at least block Boucher's vision of the hoop, we're at too much of a mismatch elsewhere and have to resort to too funky of a defensive look to be effective enough to beat Oregon.

[azcat49]

I think the issue is we have to pull our bigs to the perimeter and they can't help in the paint when Brooks beat his guy. If we don't go out on Bouche he hits 3's.

Agreed in.pounding it inside and see if we can chew them up foul wise but we couldn't do that at home.

Oregon has very few wasted trips down on its end. You have to be very efficient to beat thrm. UDUB was early but made mistake after mistake and before you knew it, they were down 11.

[Zero]

Gonna be nice to have Allonzo for this game. Not Tolly trying to guard Oregon starters.

[dirtbags]

surprisingly chalky tournament. that needs to end tonight.

[Spaceman Spiff]

I look at this game as a barometer for the big tourney. Not necessarily whether we win or lose, but the effort and intensity we bring and our ability to sustain and play through adversity.

I think most people would objectively see Oregon as better than us, and we need to be able to win this type of game if we're making any tourney run.

Plus, we pooped the bed against Oregon last time.

[Jefe]

An hour ago

[97cats]

Lute for Life

[84Cat]

Awesome!

[Alieberman]

That's the happiest Salim has ever looked!

[RiseAndFire]

i don't disagree the reason for uneven halves is effort. but it's s cop out to keep blaming the players.

ask why they can't sustain the effort

fans blame the players for being lazy bums
I think it's because players can't physically sustain 40 mins of crazy intense D effort whole also trying to score points. You reach a point where your offense.and/or your defense falter. This is not a lineup full of AG and RHJ clones

millers the coach tho he should figure it out. all year long no adjustment just DWWD

so far that approach maxes out at the EE

So, to recap your points:

-We should play less intense D, because playing too hard makes you tired.
-We should not sub every 4 minutes, because constantly changing playing time won't make any player tired.
-We should take fewer timeouts, which will make players more tired.

So, in summary, we should take one step to keep players from getting tired, then two to make them more tired.

this is the real world so there is a finite amount of energy a team has to spend in a 40-min game. fair enough? We spend at least 2/3 of that energy slavishly dedicated to 1/2 the game (defense). So when a lineup happens to find a really good groove - I mean they're feeling it like 1HvColo- adjust OTHER things so they can stay on the floor . Case in point the start of 2H vs Utah - new lineup roars us back in game, is promptly yanked after 4 mins because Pack Line!

To boot the defense we are so married to doesn't particularly suit the matchup or the personnel, and turns a defensive STRENGTH (Tarc in paint) into a WEAKNESS (Tarc hedging at the 3-pt line)

this is not rocket science here

DWWD

[rgdeuce]

Rise, you really have no clue about the game of basketball. There was a guy on your TV for the preceding two years who busted his ass on every play, who worked harder than anyone on the floor, who had to run the offense, who pushed the ball up the floor, was working like hell without the ball, probing the defense and driving, and working through screens, pressuring the ball, following his man around the floor, giving 100 pct effort on every defensive trip. Oh yea, same packline defense. He played 32 and 30.5 minutes per game here. His last three games he played 39, 36 and 38 minutes.

And yes, a good defensive player is going to spend more energy on defense than offense. Thats the way basketball works. Its like that at Arizona because defense is important here, not because of a packline defense

[UAEebs86]

[Spaceman Spiff]

i don't disagree the reason for uneven halves is effort. but it's s cop out to keep blaming the players.

ask why they can't sustain the effort

fans blame the players for being lazy bums
I think it's because players can't physically sustain 40 mins of crazy intense D effort whole also trying to score points. You reach a point where your offense.and/or your defense falter. This is not a lineup full of AG and RHJ clones

millers the coach tho he should figure it out. all year long no adjustment just DWWD

so far that approach maxes out at the EE

So, to recap your points:

-We should play less intense D, because playing too hard makes you tired.
-We should not sub every 4 minutes, because constantly changing playing time won't make any player tired.
-We should take fewer timeouts, which will make players more tired.

So, in summary, we should take one step to keep players from getting tired, then two to make them more tired.

this is the real world so there is a finite amount of energy a team has to spend in a 40-min game. fair enough? We spend at least 2/3 of that energy slavishly dedicated to 1/2 the game (defense). So when a lineup happens to find a really good groove - I mean they're feeling it like 1HvColo- adjust OTHER things so they can stay on the floor . Case in point the start of 2H vs Utah - new lineup roars us back in game, is promptly yanked after 4 mins because Pack Line!

To boot the defense we are so married to doesn't particularly suit the matchup or the personnel, and turns a defensive STRENGTH (Tarc in paint) into a WEAKNESS (Tarc hedging at the 3-pt line)

this is not rocket science here

DWWD

In the real world, I've been on a D1 college basketball roster.

Defense is harder. Coaches rise and fall on their ability to instill a culture and system and Miller is the most successful young coach in the game. Rotations exist because good coaches care about maximizing the 40 minutes, not riding hot hands.

The semi-smartest thing you hint at is that players can't go fulp out for 40 without wearing down. That is exactly why you establish rotations, because all people in the rotation are expected to pull weight. You win championships when everybody knows their role and executes it all the time.

There's a reason why Sean Miller has made more Elite Eights in the last year than you will in your life. Maybe you should root for ASU. I think Hurley'd be to your liking.

[rgdeuce]

At some point Rise, you gotta realize where you are playing coach/smartest guy in the room. You got former college players in here, you got guys involved in scouting, guys with close relationships to other great basketball minds, etc. Theres plenty of others who have a very good grasp of the game.

[Bangkok Wildcat]

At some point Rise, you gotta realize where you are playing coach/smartest guy in the room. You got former college players in here, you got guys involved in scouting, guys with close relationships to other great basketball minds, etc. Theres plenty of others who have a very good grasp of the game.

AND this is why I love this forum, respect so many of you ex-players, and am humble when talking about actual specifics of play. Love when you guys provide your input and enjoy learning about the game.

Thanks!

[SCCats]

There are some drunk, angry Arizona fans on the concourse that need to get it together

[AZCatGirl]

There are some drunk, angry Arizona fans on the concourse that need to get it together

Ugh. I really hope our fans up there don't do something stupid. We all knew we probably wouldn't win tonight.