Allonzo Trier

Spaceman Spiff · Post by **Spaceman Spiff** » Sat Oct 15, 2016 4:06 pm

gumby wrote:
Olsondogg wrote:
gumby wrote:Must be in appeal mode. He looked really good in scrimmage. Be a real shame if he can't play.

Based on what? Miller stating he can't and won't respond to rumors?

I get that people are nervous based on everyone speculating but I'd miller said anything else, i would be more upset.
No. Based on not saying "yes" to the question "is he good to go?" I wouldn't have been upset with "yes." I'm not upset with answer he did give (except that it indicates something is going on).

I don't think there's any way something isn't going on. With that, there isn't much else Miller would ever say.

gumby · Post by **gumby** » Sat Oct 15, 2016 4:10 pm

I wouldn't be upset if he said yes, followed by what he did say. Relieved. Might even uncross fingers, which would make posting easier. But he didn't, which prompted my post.

gumby · Post by **gumby** » Sat Oct 15, 2016 4:11 pm

Spaceman Spiff wrote:
gumby wrote:
Olsondogg wrote:
gumby wrote:Must be in appeal mode. He looked really good in scrimmage. Be a real shame if he can't play.

Based on what? Miller stating he can't and won't respond to rumors?

I get that people are nervous based on everyone speculating but I'd miller said anything else, i would be more upset.
No. Based on not saying "yes" to the question "is he good to go?" I wouldn't have been upset with "yes." I'm not upset with answer he did give (except that it indicates something is going on).
I don't think there's any way something isn't going on. With that, there isn't much else Miller would ever say.

Yep.

ChooChooCat · Post by **ChooChooCat** » Sat Oct 15, 2016 8:58 pm

HIPPA may be involved in this equation so even if Miller wanted to say something, he likely can't at this point.

Irish27 · Post by **Irish27** » Sat Oct 15, 2016 9:12 pm

ChooChooCat wrote:HIPPA may be involved in this equation so even if Miller wanted to say something, he likely can't at this point.

Do you mean FERPA? I have never heard of HIPPA.

Dave · Post by **Dave** » Sat Oct 15, 2016 9:58 pm

HIPPA protects confidentiality of healthcare related information.

Gilbertcat · Post by **Gilbertcat** » Sat Oct 15, 2016 10:16 pm

Hippa. Lots of new rules to

Longhorned · Post by **Longhorned** » Sun Oct 16, 2016 6:38 am

Alieberman · Post by **Alieberman** » Sun Oct 16, 2016 7:00 am

NAFTA, The IRS, TSA, and PETA may also be involved.

pc in NM · Post by **pc in NM** » Sun Oct 16, 2016 7:02 am

Gilbertcat wrote:Hippa. Lots of new rules to

Potential sanctions for athlete's use of PEDs (the rumor) would not be considered as PHI - "protected health information" - one sees this released all the time throughout both pro and amateur athletics.

If (IF!) the issue is actually PEDs, I would suspect that the back-up sample is being tested, which would explain a delay - this would be true in ANY case, and does not imply ANY information at all in Trier's current status....

Another possibility could be if an athlete failed to respond to a requested random sample (does the NCAA do this?), then there could be appeals while the reason for the failure to respond was explored/explained....

Longhorned · Post by **Longhorned** » Sun Oct 16, 2016 7:32 am

I hope he peed in the eye of the NCAA agent kneeling under him with the cup.

HiCat · Post by **HiCat** » Sun Oct 16, 2016 7:52 am

pc in NM wrote:
Gilbertcat wrote:Hippa. Lots of new rules to
Potential sanctions for athlete's use of PEDs (the rumor) would not be considered as PHI - "protected health information" - one sees this released all the time throughout both pro and amateur athletics.

If (IF!) the issue is actually PEDs, I would suspect that the back-up sample is being tested, which would explain a delay - this would be true in ANY case, and does not imply ANY information at all in Trier's current status....

Another possibility could be if an athlete failed to respond to a requested random sample (does the NCAA do this?), then there could be appeals while the reason for the failure to respond was explored/explained....

Back-up sample? I know it may seem obvious, but clarification on this? Do they take a subsequent sample or take 2 samples at the the same time?

CalStateTempe · Post by **CalStateTempe** » Sun Oct 16, 2016 8:24 am

HiCat wrote:
pc in NM wrote:
Gilbertcat wrote:Hippa. Lots of new rules to
Potential sanctions for athlete's use of PEDs (the rumor) would not be considered as PHI - "protected health information" - one sees this released all the time throughout both pro and amateur athletics.

If (IF!) the issue is actually PEDs, I would suspect that the back-up sample is being tested, which would explain a delay - this would be true in ANY case, and does not imply ANY information at all in Trier's current status....

Another possibility could be if an athlete failed to respond to a requested random sample (does the NCAA do this?), then there could be appeals while the reason for the failure to respond was explored/explained....

Back-up sample? I know it may seem obvious, but clarification on this? Do they take a subsequent sample or take 2 samples at the the same time?

Typically its called a split sample.

The donor need to produce a certain amount of urine in one setting. There are whole procedures and protocols to ensure the validity of the sample. That one sample is sent to a lab where it is then split. The first sample is tested, if possible, the individual has the right to request the second sample to be tested. I have never seen a second sample overturn the results of the first one, however.

CalStateTempe · Post by **CalStateTempe** » Sun Oct 16, 2016 8:25 am

Generally the second sample is stored by the lab for up to a year, except for negative results on the first test.

HiCat · Post by **HiCat** » Sun Oct 16, 2016 8:40 am

CST,

Thanks for the detailed info.

ChooChooCat · Post by **ChooChooCat** » Sun Oct 16, 2016 8:42 am

CalStateTempe wrote:
HiCat wrote:
pc in NM wrote:
Gilbertcat wrote:Hippa. Lots of new rules to
Potential sanctions for athlete's use of PEDs (the rumor) would not be considered as PHI - "protected health information" - one sees this released all the time throughout both pro and amateur athletics.

If (IF!) the issue is actually PEDs, I would suspect that the back-up sample is being tested, which would explain a delay - this would be true in ANY case, and does not imply ANY information at all in Trier's current status....

Another possibility could be if an athlete failed to respond to a requested random sample (does the NCAA do this?), then there could be appeals while the reason for the failure to respond was explored/explained....

Back-up sample? I know it may seem obvious, but clarification on this? Do they take a subsequent sample or take 2 samples at the the same time?
Typically its called a split sample.

The donor need to produce a certain amount of urine in one setting. There are whole procedures and protocols to ensure the validity of the sample. That one sample is sent to a lab where it is then split. The first sample is tested, if possible, the individual has the right to request the second sample to be tested. I have never seen a second sample overturn the results of the first one, however.

Yep, the only way for the first sample and the second sample to be different is if the first sample was tampered with in any way and was contaminated. You're looking at a 1 in a million odds in that case.

NYCat · Post by **NYCat** » Sun Oct 16, 2016 2:38 pm

I am calling for a total and complete shutdown of Allonzo Trier rumors from coming into this thread until we can figure out what the hell is going on!

pc in NM · Post by **pc in NM** » Sun Oct 16, 2016 4:00 pm

ChooChooCat wrote:
CalStateTempe wrote:
HiCat wrote:
pc in NM wrote:
Gilbertcat wrote:Hippa. Lots of new rules to
Potential sanctions for athlete's use of PEDs (the rumor) would not be considered as PHI - "protected health information" - one sees this released all the time throughout both pro and amateur athletics.

If (IF!) the issue is actually PEDs, I would suspect that the back-up sample is being tested, which would explain a delay - this would be true in ANY case, and does not imply ANY information at all in Trier's current status....

Another possibility could be if an athlete failed to respond to a requested random sample (does the NCAA do this?), then there could be appeals while the reason for the failure to respond was explored/explained....

Back-up sample? I know it may seem obvious, but clarification on this? Do they take a subsequent sample or take 2 samples at the the same time?
Typically its called a split sample.

The donor need to produce a certain amount of urine in one setting. There are whole procedures and protocols to ensure the validity of the sample. That one sample is sent to a lab where it is then split. The first sample is tested, if possible, the individual has the right to request the second sample to be tested. I have never seen a second sample overturn the results of the first one, however.
Yep, the only way for the first sample and the second sample to be different is if the first sample was tampered with in any way and was contaminated. You're looking at a 1 in a million odds in that case.

The two samples should be identical - the retest is performed to catch a "false positive" from the original test....

Olsondogg · Post by **Olsondogg** » Sun Oct 16, 2016 9:17 pm

Beachcat97 · Post by **Beachcat97** » Sun Oct 16, 2016 10:04 pm

AT is a heck of a player. Has a bright future at the next level.

EVCat · Post by **EVCat** » Mon Oct 17, 2016 8:26 am

I do like this board.

The one thing that bugs the shit out of me, though, is being behind a work firewall and never, ever seeing the Twitter posts. So conversations have huge gaps, like Olsondogg above....

Am I the only one with this problem? My office is apparently made of asbestos, block, and mud, so I cannot get phone signal either. I used to work at home on a laptop and just look at my home computer or phone, but since I took a promotion that moved me back into the office (yes...I took a promotion that took away working at home. I get it. Dumb), I can never follow the Twitter-social media cut and paste heavy discussions

Bear Down Vegas · Post by **Bear Down Vegas** » Mon Oct 17, 2016 8:57 am

It's a pretty great picture of AT dunking. But nothing else. I think we have awhile before we know anything.

Fingers crossed.

rgdeuce · Post by **rgdeuce** » Mon Oct 17, 2016 9:26 am

Based on Trier's renowned work ethic and our strength and conditioning program, you can rule out anything anabolic if this is indeed what the issue is. Dude hits the gym harder than anyone, and I've been around guys who had much better gains in one cycle who didnt have the work ethic or resources Trier has. So that leaves stimulants like adderall, which wouldn't make sense for him, and some other non anabolic or non growth hormone PEDS. Stuff like that can be taken inadvertently with all the supplements out there, some of which do not list all of their ingredients on the label.

When I played, we were warned multiple times to run any supplements we were looking at by our trainer and coach and also told to stick with just whey, BCAA's for recovery and creatine to avoid any issues, because they don't care how it got in your system, they just care that it is in there. I doubt negligence will be a valid excuse if this is the case.

Spaceman Spiff · Post by **Spaceman Spiff** » Mon Oct 17, 2016 10:18 am

rgdeuce wrote:Based on Trier's renowned work ethic and our strength and conditioning program, you can rule out anything anabolic if this is indeed what the issue is. Dude hits the gym harder than anyone, and I've been around guys who had much better gains in one cycle who didnt have the work ethic or resources Trier has. So that leaves stimulants like adderall, which wouldn't make sense for him, and some other non anabolic or non growth hormone PEDS. Stuff like that can be taken inadvertently with all the supplements out there, some of which do not list all of their ingredients on the label.

When I played, we were warned multiple times to run any supplements we were looking at by our trainer and coach and also told to stick with just whey, BCAA's for recovery and creative to avoid any issues, because they don't care how it got in your system, they just care that it is in there. I doubt negligence will be a valid excuse if this is the case.

Snake oil salesmen would be embarassed to sell "nutritional supplements." Effective ingredients get cut with random cheap powders to increase profit margins. Stuff gets spiked. The level of actual oversight is virtually nonexistent.

Frankly, I'm an advocate of the idea that the only actual level playing field is to allow players to use what they want. I don't know Trier's issue, but I do know that if he was mainlining testosterone with a short half life, he would have twice the muscle mass and not test dirty.

If a player is getting the good stuff and has a day's notice of a test, they're golden. If a guy smokes weed, the NCAA drops a year suspension on him.

rgdeuce · Post by **rgdeuce** » Mon Oct 17, 2016 10:42 am

That's a tough one. I've lost roles to multiple guys over the span of several season because of the tremendous edge they got on juicing; It's something you have to see firsthand. I'm talking middle infielders who couldn't come close to hitting one out of our deep field in the fall season (against lesser comp), to hitting 6-8 homers in the spring. Pitchers too, 2-3 mph added to their fastballs, which is a huge deal. I didn't do it for ethical, integrity and health reasons. But looking back, I maybe would have considered it for my senior season had my career not ended as a junior. So basically, you are essentially forcing some guys to sign with the devil and risk their health to keep up w the guys who are doing it, and if it's wide open, the force to do so is even greater (see MLB).

Regarding drug tests, we were tipped off at my first school, the second I had no idea. I know a ton of guys who play(ed) in the minors and a few in the majors. The few I've had conversations with about this all told me they got tipped off several days before random drug tests. You basically have to be negligent to fail or have a severe addiction issue for the street drugs and can't back off for even a day. Contrary to popular belief, I'd bet half of MLB smokes weed on a regular to semi regular basis.. I know PED testing has changed a bit in baseball, but my understanding is there is still use and the guys are just altering things a bit to avoid positives, and the positives are the result of miscalculating their windows in terms of beating the system, or the schedules of any other substances that "hide" their use.

ChooChooCat · Post by **ChooChooCat** » Mon Oct 17, 2016 11:04 am

rgdeuce wrote:Based on Trier's renowned work ethic and our strength and conditioning program, you can rule out anything anabolic if this is indeed what the issue is. Dude hits the gym harder than anyone, and I've been around guys who had much better gains in one cycle who didnt have the work ethic or resources Trier has. So that leaves stimulants like adderall, which wouldn't make sense for him, and some other non anabolic or non growth hormone PEDS. Stuff like that can be taken inadvertently with all the supplements out there, some of which do not list all of their ingredients on the label.

When I played, we were warned multiple times to run any supplements we were looking at by our trainer and coach and also told to stick with just whey, BCAA's for recovery and creatine to avoid any issues, because they don't care how it got in your system, they just care that it is in there. I doubt negligence will be a valid excuse if this is the case.

There are anabolics whose primary purpose isn't to get you jacked.

Chicat · Post by **Chicat** » Mon Oct 17, 2016 11:16 am

I have a good feeling...

azgreg · Post by **azgreg** » Mon Oct 17, 2016 11:21 am

Chicat wrote:I have a good feeling...

Something you ate?

Chicat · Post by **Chicat** » Mon Oct 17, 2016 11:23 am

azgreg wrote:
Chicat wrote:I have a good feeling...
Something you ate?

Stay tuned . . . . to the what I had for lunch thread.

Beachcat97 · Post by **Beachcat97** » Mon Oct 17, 2016 11:55 am

When was the last time we had a player as talented as AT return for his soph season?

EVCat · Post by **EVCat** » Mon Oct 17, 2016 11:59 am

Rondae Hollis Jefferson.
Nick Johnson.
Derrick Williams.
and from there the list blows up.

Merkin · Post by **Merkin** » Mon Oct 17, 2016 12:53 pm

Mike Bibby?

Olsondogg · Post by **Olsondogg** » Mon Oct 17, 2016 12:54 pm

The list is actually quite lengthy. Under Miller we've had a few as well.

EVCat · Post by **EVCat** » Mon Oct 17, 2016 1:01 pm

he said most recent..."when was the last time...?"

So the correct answer is Rondae. But, yeah, the list is rather large

Olsondogg · Post by **Olsondogg** » Mon Oct 17, 2016 1:03 pm

EVCat wrote:he said most recent..."when was the last time...?"

So the correct answer is Rondae. But, yeah, the list is rather large

We were all just kids then.

UofAlum05 · Post by **UofAlum05** » Mon Oct 17, 2016 1:05 pm

Beachcat97 wrote:When was the last time we had a player as talented as AT return for his soph season?

Rob Gronkowski

PennZona20 · Post by **PennZona20** » Mon Oct 17, 2016 1:06 pm

Nick as a soph??? Prob not quite.

Derrick probably. But he really blew up his soph season.

Rondae in terms of NBA prospects no question.

Bibby is probably the most talented kid we ever had stay for a second season. We was a top 5 pick if he left after title season. I think the team agreed, ala Noah's gators , that they wanted to come back and defend before splitting up. Then the Triangle and too happened ......

Olsondogg · Post by **Olsondogg** » Mon Oct 17, 2016 1:17 pm

PennZona20 wrote:Nick as a soph??? Prob not quite.

Derrick probably. But he really blew up his soph season.

Rondae in terms of NBA prospects no question.

Bibby is probably the most talented kid we ever had stay for a second season. We was a top 5 pick if he left after title season. I think the team agreed, ala Noah's gators , that they wanted to come back and defend before splitting up. Then the Triangle and too happened ......

Budinger was a big deal at the time...

Longhorned · Post by **Longhorned** » Mon Oct 17, 2016 1:19 pm

When was the last time you got to work, then suddenly laid down at the entrance, and when somebody reached down for you, you just started rolling away?

UofAlum05 · Post by **UofAlum05** » Mon Oct 17, 2016 1:20 pm

Olsondogg wrote:
PennZona20 wrote:Nick as a soph??? Prob not quite.

Derrick probably. But he really blew up his soph season.

Rondae in terms of NBA prospects no question.

Bibby is probably the most talented kid we ever had stay for a second season. We was a top 5 pick if he left after title season. I think the team agreed, ala Noah's gators , that they wanted to come back and defend before splitting up. Then the Triangle and too happened ......
Budinger was a big deal at the time...

Marcus Williams?

Olsondogg · Post by **Olsondogg** » Mon Oct 17, 2016 1:24 pm

#YorkCity

Merkin · Post by **Merkin** » Mon Oct 17, 2016 1:37 pm

Not even sure Trier is NBA talented. Still short.

Chicat · Post by **Chicat** » Mon Oct 17, 2016 1:38 pm

Merkin wrote:Not even sure Trier is NBA talented. Still short.

That's a joke, right?

rgdeuce · Post by **rgdeuce** » Mon Oct 17, 2016 1:57 pm

Trier is definitely up there. This is a guy who had a good shot at Pac 12 freshman of the year and 1st team all conference had he not gotten hurt. He was on a terror when he got injured too. He could be put on the same level as a Derrick Williams and although Trier has a better team around him this year so he may not need to do as much, Trier is a 20 ppg type of guy easily on a lesser team. Kids a damn good player.

ChooChooCat wrote: There are anabolics whose primary purpose isn't to get you jacked.

I'm sure there are, I'm obviously not an expert on them. But even if used for injury purposes (not sure the wrist would be a reason), you work that hard and you are on anabolics, you should still see something, no? Even solely for recovery purposes, you recover quicker and get more work in = results. In every recent pic I've seen of Trier lately + Red/Blue game, he looks completely natural, even more so than quite a few of his teammates. And I'm looking at things other than just size (pause).

Main Event · Post by **Main Event** » Mon Oct 17, 2016 2:13 pm

I actually think Trier's game is a better fit for the NBA, just a matter of him getting there. Derrick is probably the most talented soph in the Miller era

Merkin · Post by **Merkin** » Mon Oct 17, 2016 2:18 pm

Chicat wrote:
Merkin wrote:Not even sure Trier is NBA talented. Still short.
That's a joke, right?

Guess he isn't that short, he was measured 6'5" with shoes, 6'4" without.

But still a 2nd rounder.

DE on Trier: http://www.draftexpress.com/profile/All ... ier-70279/" target="_blank

Pick: 38 in 2017 Mock Draft

At 6-5 and 199 pounds, Trier has just decent size for his natural off-guard position at the next level. His 6-6 wingspan isn't particularly impressive either. While he would be better suited size-wise to the combo guard position in the NBA, his lack of court awareness, underwhelming ball-handling skills, and steadfast score-first mindset on the offensive end may make that transition challenging. Trier showcased an improved physique at the Nike Academy this past July, looking in noticeably better shape, undoubtedly taking advantage of Arizona's lauded strength and conditioning program over the off-season.

Lot more on the site, good reading.

Beachcat97 · Post by **Beachcat97** » Mon Oct 17, 2016 2:18 pm

PennZona20 wrote:Nick as a soph??? Prob not quite.

Derrick probably. But he really blew up his soph season.

Rondae in terms of NBA prospects no question.

Bibby is probably the most talented kid we ever had stay for a second season. We was a top 5 pick if he left after title season. I think the team agreed, ala Noah's gators , that they wanted to come back and defend before splitting up. Then the Triangle and too happened ......

AT is a better offensive player than NJ.

D-Will had a monster sophomore year, so yeah.

Rondae was a beast as a soph, so that's another good one.

And right: Bibby helped lead us to a NC as a freshman, so hard to compete with that.

Olsondogg · Post by **Olsondogg** » Mon Oct 17, 2016 2:45 pm

Media day in SF is on Friday...

gumby · Post by **gumby** » Mon Oct 17, 2016 2:53 pm

I know they always forget you, Gilbert, but there's no need to bring out the guns.

I'd add Sean Elliott. More everything than Trier when it comes to production.

http://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/pla ... ott-1.html" target="_blank

http://www.espn.com/mens-college-basket ... onzo-trier" target="_blank

ChooChooCat · Post by **ChooChooCat** » Mon Oct 17, 2016 3:29 pm

Theoretically if we only lost him for the first half of the season would you guys be happy with that outcome?

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