let's talk '17

PennZona20 · Post by **PennZona20** » Fri Dec 23, 2016 12:37 pm

To the surprise of no one ..... Vandy to UK.

U can officially cross him off the list.

Beachcat97 · Post by **Beachcat97** » Fri Dec 23, 2016 1:36 pm

BB is gonna give us a very nice Xmas gift next week.

gronk4heisman · Post by **gronk4heisman** » Fri Dec 23, 2016 2:09 pm

Beachcat97 wrote:BB is gonna give us a very nice Xmas gift next week.

But you told me he was a strong MSU lean. I thought you were a reliable source!!

Spaceman Spiff · Post by **Spaceman Spiff** » Fri Dec 23, 2016 2:24 pm

gronk4heisman wrote:
Beachcat97 wrote:BB is gonna give us a very nice Xmas gift next week.
But you told me he was a strong MSU lean. I thought you were a reliable source!!

You can't get upset when something doesn't happen unless you state prior that it will happen.

See, if I say that I expect my mom to give me a vacation home in Cannon Beach, OR for Christmas, I can get mad when she doesn't.

EVCat · Post by **EVCat** » Fri Dec 23, 2016 3:01 pm

Wait...I thought we needed at least 2 more players to be comfortable with this class?

Y'all are settling...if we, the fans, demand better, we will get better.

Frybry02 · Post by **Frybry02** » Fri Dec 23, 2016 3:31 pm

I wouldn't mind a BB commitment. A BB commitment would give us much needed help at SF. On the other hand I would trade a BB commitment for KS and RA returning. If BB commits and everyone I expect and/or would like to return, then where is his minutes going to come from? I would be very happy with this roster. I could see the staff looking to add a grad transfer if BB goes elsewhere.

PJC
AB
KS
DS
RA
BR
TD(medical petition?)
DA
IL
KP
DR
CC

And there is always the chance AT or LM returns

EVCat · Post by **EVCat** » Fri Dec 23, 2016 3:44 pm

I think you can focus on BB commitment without worrying about your proposed deal with the devil.

ChooChooCat · Post by **ChooChooCat** » Fri Dec 23, 2016 5:20 pm

EVCat wrote:Wait...I thought we needed at least 2 more players to be comfortable with this class?

Y'all are settling...if we, the fans, demand better, we will get better.

We haven't even gotten to the transfer recruiting season yet, strap on your seat belt buddy, this roller coaster is far from over!

ChooChooCat · Post by **ChooChooCat** » Fri Dec 23, 2016 5:21 pm

EVCat wrote:I think you can focus on BB commitment without worrying about your proposed deal with the devil.

Yeah I'm not sure why fans feel the need to do the either/or bargain when they may not have to.

Spaceman Spiff · Post by **Spaceman Spiff** » Fri Dec 23, 2016 5:23 pm

EVCat wrote:Wait...I thought we needed at least 2 more players to be comfortable with this class?

Y'all are settling...if we, the fans, demand better, we will get better.

It's a down year for recruiting. They happen. We only landed a single number one prospect. We're falling behind UCLA. They probably would have landed two or three number one prospects.

dirtbags · Post by **dirtbags** » Fri Dec 23, 2016 9:17 pm

Frybry02 wrote:I wouldn't mind a BB commitment. A BB commitment would give us much needed help at SF. On the other hand I would trade a BB commitment for KS and RA returning. If BB commits and everyone I expect and/or would like to return, then where is his minutes going to come from? I would be very happy with this roster. I could see the staff looking to add a grad transfer if BB goes elsewhere.

PJC
AB
KS
DS
RA
BR
TD(medical petition?)
DA
IL
KP
DR
CC

And there is always the chance AT or LM returns

+CM?

Bangkok Wildcat · Post by **Bangkok Wildcat** » Fri Dec 23, 2016 9:31 pm

dirtbags wrote:
Frybry02 wrote:I wouldn't mind a BB commitment. A BB commitment would give us much needed help at SF. On the other hand I would trade a BB commitment for KS and RA returning. If BB commits and everyone I expect and/or would like to return, then where is his minutes going to come from? I would be very happy with this roster. I could see the staff looking to add a grad transfer if BB goes elsewhere.

PJC
AB
KS
DS
RA
BR
TD(medical petition?)
DA
IL
KP
DR
CC

And there is always the chance AT or LM returns
+CM?

Hungover and coffee hasn't hit me yet so be gentle, lol.

1. Who is CM? Or do you mean LM?
2. How committed are we to TD? Would have been nice to have him this year but he got hurt and we know how critical each scholarship is this year. Do we want to / are we committed to using a scholly on him next year as well?

I would rather part ways with him even if the optics don't look good and use it elsewhere. It would suck to get him back then he gets hurt again next year. Thoughts?

3. Between KS and DR, I think there is a strong chance we could have another scholly open...just a gut feeling

Frybry02 · Post by **Frybry02** » Fri Dec 23, 2016 9:35 pm

dirtbags wrote:
Frybry02 wrote:I wouldn't mind a BB commitment. A BB commitment would give us much needed help at SF. On the other hand I would trade a BB commitment for KS and RA returning. If BB commits and everyone I expect and/or would like to return, then where is his minutes going to come from? I would be very happy with this roster. I could see the staff looking to add a grad transfer if BB goes elsewhere.

PJC
AB
KS
DS
RA
BR
TD(medical petition?)
DA
IL
KP
DR
CC

And there is always the chance AT or LM returns
+CM?

I'm Sure there is a walk on spot available for Cameron.

dirtbags · Post by **dirtbags** » Fri Dec 23, 2016 9:41 pm

yeah, i'm being a bit facetious about CM on "the list" but seriously, is he for certain walking on next year? i understand he's a pretty smart and quick pg that could perhaps become a big fish in a smaller pond if he wanted.

HiCat · Post by **HiCat** » Sat Dec 24, 2016 6:03 am

Wonder what the chances are..hmmm

Five-star recruit Hamidou Diallo is expected to take an official visit to Arizona in early January, reports Adam Zagoria of ZagsBlog.com.

Diallo, a 6-foot-5 guard, is the No. 10 player in the 2017 class, and the No. 1 shooting guard in the nation.

An interesting wrinkle? Diallo could enroll in college for the spring semester and therefore play right away wherever he chooses to go, as the NCAA has cleared him to do so.

Yes, that means if Arizona lands Diallo, he could be suiting up for the Wildcats in the second half of this season, since the team has room for another scholarship player — and we know how badly the Wildcats need depth right now.

“He’s really excited about Arizona and the possibility of going there,” Tom Espinosa, Diallo’s head coach at Putnam Science Academy, told AZ Desert Swarm in September. “Me, personally, I was very impressed with Coach (Sean) Miller and Coach (Book) Richardson.

http://www.azdesertswarm.com/recruiting ... commit-nba" target="_blank

ChooChooCat · Post by **ChooChooCat** » Sat Dec 24, 2016 9:10 am

Certainly a lot of interesting dynamics to this Diallo recruitment. It seems if he wanted to play immediately then UCONN would be his best choice. If he wanted to redshirt, practice against elite talent, then enter the draft then Kentucky or us would probably be best for that. If he wants to redshirt and play next year then once again Kentucky/AZ are probably the best choices for that. Such an interesting rare recruitment that has so many open ended possibilities.

Personally I prefer the sure thing in Bowen.

Longhorned · Post by **Longhorned** » Sat Dec 24, 2016 9:22 am

Why would Diallo want to redshirt regardless? If he's in college next year, it wouldn't matter if he has four as opposed to three years of eligibility.

PennZona20 · Post by **PennZona20** » Sat Dec 24, 2016 4:03 pm

Wait, is this for real??? When does the second semester start for UA??

I mean it's gotta start by like Jan 9 at latest right?

Longhorned · Post by **Longhorned** » Sat Dec 24, 2016 4:45 pm

PennZona20 wrote:Wait, is this for real??? When does the second semester start for UA??

I mean it's gotta start by like Jan 9 at latest right?

Classes start after MLK Day.

ChooChooCat · Post by **ChooChooCat** » Sat Dec 24, 2016 6:53 pm

Longhorned wrote:Why would Diallo want to redshirt regardless? If he's in college next year, it wouldn't matter if he has four as opposed to three years of eligibility.

Because he hasn't practiced once in his future coach's system and the chemistry with the rest of the team isn't there. Alex Murphy did this at Duke a few years back and a few others have as well, they all redshirted for those reasons. If the goal is to impress NBA scouts he sure as hell won't do it being in the wrong place at the wrong time more often than not.

Knowing Arizona's luck the rest of our backcourt will have their heads falling off their bodies a week or two into conference play, so we'd have to play him out of necessity.

Longhorned · Post by **Longhorned** » Sat Dec 24, 2016 7:27 pm

ChooChooCat wrote:
Longhorned wrote:Why would Diallo want to redshirt regardless? If he's in college next year, it wouldn't matter if he has four as opposed to three years of eligibility.
Because he hasn't practiced once in his future coach's system and the chemistry with the rest of the team isn't there. Alex Murphy did this at Duke a few years back and a few others have as well, they all redshirted for those reasons. If the goal is to impress NBA scouts he sure as hell won't do it being in the wrong place at the wrong time more often than not.

Knowing Arizona's luck the rest of our backcourt will have their heads falling off their bodies a week or two into conference play, so we'd have to play him out of necessity.

Alex Murphy needed all the eligibility he could get. Isn't he playing for like his fifth college program now? I can't remember what it is, but I think they play their home games on the roof of a drug store. I get limited playing time for Diallo, but I don't see why he'd want to stay on the bench completely to protect a fourth year of eligibility.

ChooChooCat · Post by **ChooChooCat** » Sat Dec 24, 2016 9:00 pm

Longhorned wrote:
ChooChooCat wrote:
Longhorned wrote:Why would Diallo want to redshirt regardless? If he's in college next year, it wouldn't matter if he has four as opposed to three years of eligibility.
Because he hasn't practiced once in his future coach's system and the chemistry with the rest of the team isn't there. Alex Murphy did this at Duke a few years back and a few others have as well, they all redshirted for those reasons. If the goal is to impress NBA scouts he sure as hell won't do it being in the wrong place at the wrong time more often than not.

Knowing Arizona's luck the rest of our backcourt will have their heads falling off their bodies a week or two into conference play, so we'd have to play him out of necessity.
Alex Murphy needed all the eligibility he could get. Isn't he playing for like his fifth college program now? I can't remember what it is, but I think they play their home games on the roof of a drug store. I get limited playing time for Diallo, but I don't see why he'd want to stay on the bench completely to protect a fourth year of eligibility.

It's not about the 4th year, it's about not jumping into half a year with every thing working against you barring th coach letting you audition (why UCONN makes the most sense for play right away). It's sit one semester, practice against better players, learn the system, ball out the next season and leave for the NBA.

HiCat · Post by **HiCat** » Sun Dec 25, 2016 8:09 am

Merry Xmas boys and girls.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e2pk4p_yqH8" target="_blank

Beachcat97 · Post by **Beachcat97** » Sun Dec 25, 2016 1:17 pm

Gonna play devil's advocate on this one. Do we really want Diallo for the current season? Would that not be strange (and even disruptive) for our team to suddenly have a new player who's likely to get significant minutes? He hasn't met the team, practiced with the team, or spent any time on the UofA campus. I realize how good Diallo is, and it's tempting of course. But adding a player mid-season feels a little awkward. PJC will be back soon, and it's sounding like AT won't be far behind.

DiehardDave37 · Post by **DiehardDave37** » Sun Dec 25, 2016 2:04 pm

Beachcat97 wrote:Gonna play devil's advocate on this one. Do we really want Diallo for the current season? Would that not be strange (and even disruptive) for our team to suddenly have a new player who's likely to get significant minutes? He hasn't met the team, practiced with the team, or spent any time on the UofA campus. I realize how good Diallo is, and it's tempting of course. But adding a player mid-season feels a little awkward. PJC will be back soon, and it's sounding like AT won't be far behind.

.
You must have Choo Choo on ignore. I agree with him. Diallo isn't going to get significant minutes this semester. He will be a practice body to learn the system and start out next year like gangbusters.

MrBug708 · Post by **MrBug708** » Sun Dec 25, 2016 2:09 pm

Isnt Diallo expected to declare for the draft anyways? If he picks a team where he wont play much, wouldnt that be the situation he'd try to avoid?

enfuego · Post by **enfuego** » Sun Dec 25, 2016 6:11 pm

DiehardDave37 wrote:
Beachcat97 wrote:Gonna play devil's advocate on this one. Do we really want Diallo for the current season? Would that not be strange (and even disruptive) for our team to suddenly have a new player who's likely to get significant minutes? He hasn't met the team, practiced with the team, or spent any time on the UofA campus. I realize how good Diallo is, and it's tempting of course. But adding a player mid-season feels a little awkward. PJC will be back soon, and it's sounding like AT won't be far behind.
.
You must have Choo Choo on ignore. I agree with him. Diallo isn't going to get significant minutes this semester. He will be a practice body to learn the system and start out next year like gangbusters.

This kid isn't enrolling anywhere at mid-semester. He's saying this to draw attention to his recruitment.

Bear Down Vegas · Post by **Bear Down Vegas** » Mon Dec 26, 2016 9:37 am

enfuego wrote:This kid isn't enrolling anywhere at mid-semester. He's saying this to draw attention to his recruitment.

So he'll be enrolling at UCONN sometime in the next two weeks. #fuegcurse

ChooChooCat · Post by **ChooChooCat** » Tue Dec 27, 2016 2:58 pm

If Arizona can have Diallo for the next 18 months take him without thinking twice about it. If the plan is to only play a semester and bounce then hard pass.

Beachcat97 · Post by **Beachcat97** » Wed Dec 28, 2016 2:01 pm

http://spartanavenue.com/2016/12/27/mic ... -decision/" target="_blank

Not sure you guys caught this. BB may not decide until February.

EVCat · Post by **EVCat** » Wed Dec 28, 2016 2:03 pm

or he might decide tomorrow...

I'd think the longer it drags, the better chance we have as the team that was coming in to pull a player away from what was believed to be a decided lean. The spin in that article, from a MSU perspective, is that a delayed choice helps them, but that makes his Arizona interest out to be some fleeting flirtation based purely on his visit. That is an underestimation of this program and of Coach Miller.

Beachcat97 · Post by **Beachcat97** » Wed Dec 28, 2016 2:11 pm

EVCat wrote:or he might decide tomorrow...

I'd think the longer it drags, the better chance we have as the team that was coming in to pull a player away from what was believed to be a decided lean. The spin in that article, from a MSU perspective, is that a delayed choice helps them, but that makes his Arizona interest out to be some fleeting flirtation based purely on his visit. That is an underestimation of this program and of Coach Miller.

A lot in flux right now, it seems. I'm not really giving us a realistic chance at Diallo, as I think it's either UK or UConn. Not sure what McCoy's going to do. And then there's Bowen. I also wonder if Sean already knows that any of our three star guards (AT, KS, RA) is definitely leaving after this season.

It's gotta be maddening for coaches going through this every year. But then, Sean is used to it.

EVCat · Post by **EVCat** » Wed Dec 28, 2016 2:20 pm

how would Miller know Rawle is leaving when he doesn't know if he is leaving?

If KA is Kadeem Allen, no shit, he is leaving?

If KA meant to be Kobi...there is no way Kobi Simmons knows if he is leaving, and next to no way he is actually leaving unless he has decided on a life in mid tier European leagues.

No one outside of Grant Jerrett has been stupid in leaving Arizona early for the draft. And Grant wasn't a combo guard with average height and below average shooting percentages. Unless Rawle and Kobi have given up on NBA dreams and have decided to go as teenagers to play in foreign leagues, neither of them are leaving Arizona for the draft.

SCCats · Post by **SCCats** » Wed Dec 28, 2016 2:33 pm

EVCat wrote:No one outside of Grant Jerrett has been stupid in leaving Arizona early for the draft. And Grant wasn't a combo guard with average height and below average shooting percentages. Unless Rawle and Kobi have given up on NBA dreams and have decided to go as teenagers to play in foreign leagues, neither of them are leaving Arizona for the draft.

I've talked a bit about changing around our recruiting style a bit and you're hitting on one of the principles I think we should use: looking for super talented guys that don't have NBA prototype bodies.

Beachcat97 · Post by **Beachcat97** » Wed Dec 28, 2016 2:37 pm

SCCats wrote:
EVCat wrote:No one outside of Grant Jerrett has been stupid in leaving Arizona early for the draft. And Grant wasn't a combo guard with average height and below average shooting percentages. Unless Rawle and Kobi have given up on NBA dreams and have decided to go as teenagers to play in foreign leagues, neither of them are leaving Arizona for the draft.
I've talked a bit about changing around our recruiting style a bit and you're hitting on one of the principles I think we should use: looking for super talented guys that don't have NBA prototype bodies.

So no more AGs or SJs?

Bear Down Vegas · Post by **Bear Down Vegas** » Wed Dec 28, 2016 2:44 pm

SCCats wrote:
EVCat wrote:No one outside of Grant Jerrett has been stupid in leaving Arizona early for the draft. And Grant wasn't a combo guard with average height and below average shooting percentages. Unless Rawle and Kobi have given up on NBA dreams and have decided to go as teenagers to play in foreign leagues, neither of them are leaving Arizona for the draft.
I've talked a bit about changing around our recruiting style a bit and you're hitting on one of the principles I think we should use: looking for super talented guys that don't have NBA prototype bodies.

Not to nitpick but why would we want to change our recruiting style? I mean that respectfully. I just can't understand how anyone can be disappointed or want to tinker with Miller's recruiting - since he got here. Sure there have been busts and leave early's and never shows. But Arizona is one of the top recruiting schools in the nation & it's not close.

EastCoastCat · Post by **EastCoastCat** » Wed Dec 28, 2016 2:46 pm

I can live with our recruiting approach if we can land the #1 overall recruit in the country each year.

Beachcat97 · Post by **Beachcat97** » Wed Dec 28, 2016 2:48 pm

EastCoastCat wrote:I can live with our recruiting approach if we can land the #1 overall recruit in the country each year.

Heck, I'd even settle for 3 top 20 guys every year.

SCCats · Post by **SCCats** » Wed Dec 28, 2016 7:56 pm

Bear Down Vegas wrote:Not to nitpick but why would we want to change our recruiting style?

The very specific answer to this is I'm not sure the way we're currently recruiting (sort of the last couple of years) maximizes the chances for the results that Arizona basketball fans want.

Most specifically I'm talking about getting to final fours. Now I understand there are other players on the roster and on the court, but to give a specific example, I am not at all sure bringing in freshmen who are ranked in the 20, 25, 30 range who are then our starters for one year until they leave and then we bring in a new group of freshmen ranked 20, 25, 30 in the nation is necessarily maximizing our chances of getting to final fours because these guys are generally not good enough in their one year to get us where we as Arizona fans want to be.

Obviously there are quite a few caveats to that (for example, top 10 guys are worth it for one year; guys ranked in the 20s are probably worth it if they stay at least two years and almost certainly worth it if they stay three). So that is why you might look at guys who are super talented basketball players but who don't have prototypical NBA bodies for their positions so we can get ourselves some Russ Smith type action ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russ_Smith_(basketball" target="_blank) )

dcZONAfan · Post by **dcZONAfan** » Wed Dec 28, 2016 10:42 pm

Yeah, it's just so simple! Any didn't CSM think of that!

rgdeuce · Post by **rgdeuce** » Thu Dec 29, 2016 8:47 am

SCCats wrote:
I've talked a bit about changing around our recruiting style a bit and you're hitting on one of the principles I think we should use: looking for super talented guys that don't have NBA prototype bodies.

SCCats wrote:
The very specific answer to this is I'm not sure the way we're currently recruiting (sort of the last couple of years) maximizes the chances for the results that Arizona basketball fans want.

Most specifically I'm talking about getting to final fours. Now I understand there are other players on the roster and on the court, but to give a specific example, I am not at all sure bringing in freshmen who are ranked in the 20, 25, 30 range who are then our starters for one year until they leave and then we bring in a new group of freshmen ranked 20, 25, 30 in the nation is necessarily maximizing our chances of getting to final fours because these guys are generally not good enough in their one year to get us where we as Arizona fans want to be.

Obviously there are quite a few caveats to that (for example, top 10 guys are worth it for one year; guys ranked in the 20s are probably worth it if they stay at least two years and almost certainly worth it if they stay three). So that is why you might look at guys who are super talented basketball players but who don't have prototypical NBA bodies for their positions so we can get ourselves some Russ Smith type action ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russ_Smith_(basketball" target="_blank) )

Size and athleticism are very important to what Miller wants to do at Arizona. We win and keep ourselves in big games with a chance to win because of our defense. An element to that has always been our size and size is very important on defense. PJC doesn't have an NBA prototype body and look how that cripples him/us on defense. That may seem like an extreme case, but you dont want to be undersized at any position, let alone multiple (ala Jesse Perry). Do you want 3's who are 6'4 or 6'5 guarding a versatile 3 who is 6'7? Ask any basketball player, any level, what really grabs their attention when they walk into a visitor's gym/arena - size. Stepping out onto McKale's floor and seeing five guys who are 6'8 or taller intimidates or at least puts some worry in almost every team. Being a 6'4 wing and knowing that a 6'7 guy who is just as athletic as you is going to be guarding you for 30 minutes puts concern in most players. Talent and size and results all go hand in hand. The problems we have, guys transferring and guys leaving early, affects a majority of the top programs, it just hits close to home so it seems worse.

Miller has noted that he has changed things up with how they are recruiting; he is looking for guys who love the game. You can still do that and recruit size and talent. He isn't neglecting guys because they have the chance to be one and done, he is just passing on some guys who aren't going to give 110% at all times and who don't love the game enough to deal with some adversity (ie: maybe not getting as many minutes as you want as a freshman). The hardest workers exhibit the most growth, he wants a team full of Triers who would skip a night out chasing tail to take 500 extra jumpshots.

We see all these Cinderella stories with smaller, scrappy players who are seniors, but it is a grass is greener on the other side of the fence situation. You see the success, but you dont notice that team has missed 2 of the last 5 NCAA tournaments and get bounced in the 1st or 2nd round in two of them. Kentucky pulls historic classes pretty much every year, yet they played in the NIT in 2013 and were a (favorable) 8 seed the following year who just happened to click in the tournament. Outside of Miller's first year at Arizona, he has missed one tournament and we all remember that nightmare of a season. Shit happens. We have the second longest AP top 25 streak in the country going right now. Last year's team didnt really feel like an Arizona team, we lost Zeus and Trier for extended periods, Ray Smith for the season and Tollefsen was 1/10th of what we thought we were getting. We still competed for a Pac 12 crown in a season that featured as good of an Oregon and as good of a Utah team as those programs have seen, plus a Cal team that by the grace of God was able to bring in several elite freshmen. Then shit luck happens, we get underseeded and get an underseeded and dangerous Wichita State team. The issue here is luck. We get a few good bounces/breaks that pretty much everyone else who goes on a final four run gets, we have three final fours. An inch or two more on a Jamelle Horne 3 to beat UCONN, not the shit luck of pulling Wisconsin both of those seasons, not getting shafted on a Nick Johnson offensive foul, and not catching Dekker on the greatest night of his career in the other game. We have shit luck this season too and we are still doing fine. Lost Smith for the season, Trier hasn't played a game, we have been without our starting PG for a month. If we didnt lose all three of those guys, we are 13-0 and probably ranked 2nd in the country (since we started out several spots higher than UCLA). Are we even having a conversation if that happened? Where is UCLA if Lonzo Ball still wasn't eligible, Thomas Welsh tore his ACL and Aaron Holiday missed a month?

SCCats · Post by **SCCats** » Thu Dec 29, 2016 9:29 am

rgdeuce wrote: Do you want 3's who are 6'4 or 6'5 guarding a versatile 3 who is 6'7? Ask any basketball player, any level, what really grabs their attention when they walk into a visitor's gym/arena - size. Stepping out onto McKale's floor and seeing five guys who are 6'8 or taller intimidates or at least puts some worry in almost every team.

You mean like Mike D against Vince Carter/Antwan Jamison? If the 6'5" 3 is a better, more talented basketball player than the 6'7" then sure, give me the 6'5" guy and I'll have him school the 6'7" guy all day.

There's a new reality with so many players going one and done, a reality that has to be considered in any recruitment.

If you can somewhat hack the recruiting game to find talented players that will have a greater chance to stay more than one year, we should be trying to figure out how to do that. One way is probably looking at super talented guys that don't have prototypical NBA bodies. Guys in the 10-50 range that don't have prototypical NBA bodies probably actually have games that are better than their number implies, but they're knocked down due to height issues. Sprinkling some of those types through our roster might give us more stability and give Miller more time to teach principles that these guys need, making it more likely from one year to the next to make final fours, which is what Arizona basketball fan is looking for.

Our national title appearance teams:

97: SF 6'5", PF 6'7", C 6'10" probably about 200 lbs.

2001: PG 5'10", SG 6'3", PF 6'8"

Would Miller have recruited any of those guys?

Would he have recruited all of them?

Let's look at Rawle. 6'4" SG. Not prototypical NBA body. Is he a problem on this team?

Of course not. He's a baller and we love him. And we might do well to look for more of that type throughout the entire system.

SCCats · Post by **SCCats** » Thu Dec 29, 2016 9:33 am

dcZONAfan wrote:Yeah, it's just so simple! Any didn't CSM think of that!

He's a busy guy, can't think of everything!

Spaceman Spiff · Post by **Spaceman Spiff** » Thu Dec 29, 2016 9:37 am

A lot is hindsight. Russ Smith went to the Ville bc his other offers were Rutgers and St. Johns. He was no sure thing. We see the hits on other teams, but forget the misses because we don't follow them closely.

In 2010, Louisville signed two small guards, Russ Smith and Elisha Justice. How did Elisha Justice work out?

I don't disagree in principle, but it isn't any more of an exact science than what we do now. I would argue that Zo, Rawle, Nick and Lee are undersized prospects, and that is just off the top of my head.

SCCats · Post by **SCCats** » Thu Dec 29, 2016 9:43 am

Spaceman Spiff wrote: I would argue that Zo, Rawle, Nick and Lee are undersized prospects, and that is just off the top of my head.

And basically I want to maximize the chance that guys like these (good examples) stay one year longer (or possibly even two years longer) than a similarly talented but slightly taller recruit might. That's basically it in totality.

Then I want to generally repeat that process through much of our roster.

And that's basically the entirety of the "argument" or thought or whatever one wants to call it.

Spaceman Spiff · Post by **Spaceman Spiff** » Thu Dec 29, 2016 10:03 am

SCCats wrote:
Spaceman Spiff wrote: I would argue that Zo, Rawle, Nick and Lee are undersized prospects, and that is just off the top of my head.
And basically I want to maximize the chance that guys like these (good examples) stay one year longer (or possibly even two years longer) than a similarly talented but slightly taller recruit might. That's basically it in totality.

Then I want to generally repeat that process through much of our roster.

And that's basically the entirety of the "argument" or thought or whatever one wants to call it.

There just isn't a way to guarantee that guys stay. I think guys like Victor, Jerrett, etc. made poor decisions leaving, but kids are gonna make those decisions.

SCCats · Post by **SCCats** » Thu Dec 29, 2016 10:09 am

Spaceman Spiff wrote:There just isn't a way to guarantee that guys stay. I think guys like Victor, Jerrett, etc. made poor decisions leaving, but kids are gonna make those decisions.

Yup no way to guarantee any single guy stays. In any one single action anything can happen.

We want to effect the statistics throughout the distribution and over multiple years so in general you pick up guys that stay longer.

Spaceman Spiff · Post by **Spaceman Spiff** » Thu Dec 29, 2016 10:49 am

SCCats wrote:
Spaceman Spiff wrote:There just isn't a way to guarantee that guys stay. I think guys like Victor, Jerrett, etc. made poor decisions leaving, but kids are gonna make those decisions.
Yup no way to guarantee any single guy stays. In any one single action anything can happen.

We want to effect the statistics throughout the distribution and over multiple years so in general you pick up guys that stay longer.

Following the Ville, Elisha Justice transferred to the Univeraity of Pikeville after two years. Don't get me wrong, your aims are worthy. I just think it is more difficult to execute in actual practice.

Here's a statistical analysis. 40% of men's D1 CBB players leave their initial school by the end of their sophomore year.

http://www.ncaa.org/about/resources/res ... basketball" target="_blank

Bear Down Vegas · Post by **Bear Down Vegas** » Thu Dec 29, 2016 11:20 am

I can dig your point of view SCCats - thanks for expanding. I think it's probably hard to handle all of this - plus - get kids that CSM thinks are going to be good fits personality wise too. I feel like sometimes on these boards we as a group of fanatics can tend to over-analyze I guess was my point. But it's never wrong to discuss.

Go Cats!

rgdeuce · Post by **rgdeuce** » Thu Dec 29, 2016 12:00 pm

SCCats wrote: You mean like Mike D against Vince Carter/Antwan Jamison? If the 6'5" 3 is a better, more talented basketball player than the 6'7" then sure, give me the 6'5" guy and I'll have him school the 6'7" guy all day.

There's a new reality with so many players going one and done, a reality that has to be considered in any recruitment.

If you can somewhat hack the recruiting game to find talented players that will have a greater chance to stay more than one year, we should be trying to figure out how to do that. One way is probably looking at super talented guys that don't have prototypical NBA bodies. Guys in the 10-50 range that don't have prototypical NBA bodies probably actually have games that are better than their number implies, but they're knocked down due to height issues. Sprinkling some of those types through our roster might give us more stability and give Miller more time to teach principles that these guys need, making it more likely from one year to the next to make final fours, which is what Arizona basketball fan is looking for.

Our national title appearance teams:

97: SF 6'5", PF 6'7", C 6'10" probably about 200 lbs.

2001: PG 5'10", SG 6'3", PF 6'8"

Would Miller have recruited any of those guys?

Would he have recruited all of them?

Let's look at Rawle. 6'4" SG. Not prototypical NBA body. Is he a problem on this team?

Of course not. He's a baller and we love him. And we might do well to look for more of that type throughout the entire system.

Mike D?

Miles Simon? If Miles Simon is who you meant, he is also one of the greatest players to ever put on an Arizona uniform and his all around performance in that tournament goes down in NCAA lore. Miles Simons don't come around often. You know what does, guys who have a bit more size/quickness on a Miles Simon who can compensate for the lack of "Miles Simon" in them to be comparatively close. Size and athleticism give a buffer on defense and allow for versatility in guarding multiple positions, a huge asset.

You cherry picked two very talented teams who went far at Arizona, while ignoring similarly sized teams that under-performed or layed eggs in the NCAA tournament, some of whom were also very talented. You know why that 1997 team won a title? They had borderline NBA all stars in Mike Bibby and Jason Terry, the 1997 NCAA tournament MVP/outstanding college player in Miles Simon, a guy who could have been a really good NBA player in Dickerson, a versatile and outstanding defender in Davison, and a do whatever u ask of him center who had enough talent to have a cup of coffee in the NBA. They were hard nosed and were the perfect mix of guys who bought it, defended like no other and were special. Teams like that are rare, which is why you never see lower seeds beat three ridiculous loaded 1 seeds in an NCAA tournament. As for the 01 team, you'd expect a team that loaded and that fast and athletic and balanced to go far. The only guy considered undersized at that time was Wright but he played much bigger anyhow. Players are also stronger, faster and longer now than back then, the game and styles of play have changed too. Besides, the NCAA tournament is so wild and unpredictable, there are too many factors that cannot be controlled.

Lets go down the list of guys who entered the draft within two years: Derrick Williams wasn't a highly regarded recruit and he certainly doesn't have the prototypical NBA body, he's a tweener. Stanley Johnson and Aaron Gordon did have NBA bodies, but the issue is, they were top 5 in their classes. Top 5 recruits typically don't stick around longer than a year any more. Rondae was a top 15 recruit, we got two years out of him, I'm happy. You think he would have given us as much as he did if he was 6'5 instead of 6'7? Hell no. That leaves Grant Jerrett, the only guy who your adjustment would have had any impact on, and a guy who foolishly entered the draft against the good advice of anyone with a brain. Zeus had an NBA body and he was here 4 years after being a top 10 guy. Bash was more so than D Will because of his wingspan and he was here three as a top 15 guy (and I dont buy that he was going to be a first rounder before the injury his soph season). Solomon Hill has an NBA body, 4 years. And as for Rawle, if the dude had a jumpshot he would be gone after this year.

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