2016-2017 Arizona Basketball

Spaceman Spiff · Post by **Spaceman Spiff** » Mon Dec 19, 2016 8:11 am

Chicat wrote:The biggest thing with PJC and Trier getting 25+ minutes each is opponents who play zone do so to their own detriment. PJC slides into the lane with the dribble and draws defenders allowing Zo to roam and wait for the kick out and open three point shot. Then the more Man we see, the better opportunities Lauri, Dusan, and Chance will get on the interior.

Against zone, both Lauri and Zo are very good 3 point shooters. Right now, we sort of have to decide if we want Lauri shooting or playing the high post against the zone. Get Trier back and we still have a consistent shooter even if Lauri slides high post.

I think Zo and Lauri would be a pick and roll nightmare too. We just have so many more options.

rgdeuce · Post by **rgdeuce** » Mon Dec 19, 2016 9:22 am

Spaceman Spiff wrote:
rgdeuce wrote:
84Cat wrote:How much of a difference does PJC make in a game like this? I would think he would have taken better control of the ball late.
For starters, we dont blow a 21 point lead w less than five minutes left. Im sure we would have been up more than 21 at that juncture too.

If people want a positive from this game, UCLA has been playing the best basketball in the country right now and only beat A&M by 7 IN ANAHEIM. We had to travel halfway across the country and play an early game in A&M's backyard and made them look like amateurs through 36 minutes with only 7 scholarship players available and our starting pg and an all american on the bench. We got the W, away from McKale against a quality opponent and we learned a lesson about closing games. End of story.
Nobody should take this game as a negative. The end was brutal, but we are a thin, young team who will hopefully go from 7 to 9 deep shortly. A&M is a good team and we whipped them, then just almost collapsed at the end.

I felt like Dusan responded to a challenging matchup today too. He gave us a lot in an underrated way. For some of the criticism he's faced, today was a good day.

This was more of a big picture positive from this game in terms of where we are as a team right now, I just worded it weird.

Spaceman Spiff · Post by **Spaceman Spiff** » Mon Dec 19, 2016 9:31 am

rgdeuce wrote:
Spaceman Spiff wrote:
rgdeuce wrote:
84Cat wrote:How much of a difference does PJC make in a game like this? I would think he would have taken better control of the ball late.
For starters, we dont blow a 21 point lead w less than five minutes left. Im sure we would have been up more than 21 at that juncture too.

If people want a positive from this game, UCLA has been playing the best basketball in the country right now and only beat A&M by 7 IN ANAHEIM. We had to travel halfway across the country and play an early game in A&M's backyard and made them look like amateurs through 36 minutes with only 7 scholarship players available and our starting pg and an all american on the bench. We got the W, away from McKale against a quality opponent and we learned a lesson about closing games. End of story.
Nobody should take this game as a negative. The end was brutal, but we are a thin, young team who will hopefully go from 7 to 9 deep shortly. A&M is a good team and we whipped them, then just almost collapsed at the end.

I felt like Dusan responded to a challenging matchup today too. He gave us a lot in an underrated way. For some of the criticism he's faced, today was a good day.
This was more of a big picture positive from this game in terms of where we are as a team right now, I just worded it weird.

I got what you meant. I was just trying to address anyone who saw the aTm game as some sort of negative. I would so much rather be the team that put together 35 strong minutes and got tired/lost focus down the stretch. That is not ideal, but wholly correctable.

It's way harder to build a 22 point lead than have it slip away. Stuff happens.

rgdeuce · Post by **rgdeuce** » Mon Dec 19, 2016 9:41 am

Spaceman Spiff wrote:
Chicat wrote:The biggest thing with PJC and Trier getting 25+ minutes each is opponents who play zone do so to their own detriment. PJC slides into the lane with the dribble and draws defenders allowing Zo to roam and wait for the kick out and open three point shot. Then the more Man we see, the better opportunities Lauri, Dusan, and Chance will get on the interior.
Against zone, both Lauri and Zo are very good 3 point shooters. Right now, we sort of have to decide if we want Lauri shooting or playing the high post against the zone. Get Trier back and we still have a consistent shooter even if Lauri slides high post.

I think Zo and Lauri would be a pick and roll nightmare too. We just have so many more options.

Health and bad luck hopefully aside, after their return, we are going to be scary good once both come back and we get a few games under our belt. You aren't going to have many teams with a scoring duo like LM and Trier. Dusan, Rawle and Simmons have all had two 18-plus point games each, with the latter two being guys who are obviously going to be more capable of great things as the season progresses. Things are going to start being more consistent and economical for Rawle and Kobi when this team is at full strength. I'm still high on Kadeem offensively and his offense improves when he doesn't have to worry about running the offense. Then throw in PJC to facilitate all that. That is a lot of fire power for options 3, 4, 5, and 6. And that's not even including PJC himself, and he will add even more if he has a second half like last season shooting wise.

Spaceman Spiff · Post by **Spaceman Spiff** » Mon Dec 19, 2016 9:50 am

rgdeuce wrote:
Spaceman Spiff wrote:
Chicat wrote:The biggest thing with PJC and Trier getting 25+ minutes each is opponents who play zone do so to their own detriment. PJC slides into the lane with the dribble and draws defenders allowing Zo to roam and wait for the kick out and open three point shot. Then the more Man we see, the better opportunities Lauri, Dusan, and Chance will get on the interior.
Against zone, both Lauri and Zo are very good 3 point shooters. Right now, we sort of have to decide if we want Lauri shooting or playing the high post against the zone. Get Trier back and we still have a consistent shooter even if Lauri slides high post.

I think Zo and Lauri would be a pick and roll nightmare too. We just have so many more options.
Health and bad luck hopefully aside, after their return, we are going to be scary good once both come back and we get a few games under our belt. You aren't going to have many teams with a scoring duo like LM and Trier. Dusan, Rawle and Simmons have all had two 18-plus point games each, with the latter two being guys who are obviously going to be more capable of great things as the season progresses. Things are going to start being more consistent and economical for Rawle and Kobi when this team is at full strength. I'm still high on Kadeem offensively and his offense improves when he doesn't have to worry about running the offense. Then throw in PJC to facilitate all that.

I left one thing off my list of positives Trier/PJC bring. Rawle and Kobi are still dealing with being young and inconsistent. When we have those two back, even if one (or maybe both) have an off game, you expect Zo and Allen to be steady.

Right now, since we only have 3 guys for 3 spots, the freshman inconsistency means we have to play a guy having an off game for 30+. With PJC and Trier, we have the ability to only play the guys who are on that night for major minutes.

Edit: and if all 5 perimeter guys are on, watch out.

EVCat · Post by **EVCat** » Mon Dec 19, 2016 11:47 am

Spaceman Spiff wrote: Get PJC and Trier back and we could be coming together for March with a lot of people having gotten some valuable experience.

Yeah...we will be ready to take the NIT by storm! In some ways, it is better than the NCAA Tournament...home games AND MSG! Zona Zoo and the hallowed house of college hoops is better than UoP, if you really think about it.

As we fight to stay away from the bubble, it will be much harder entering PAC 12 play, with Ivan Rabb and Cal clearly better than us, then Stanford clearly smarter than us. Then, we play UCLA, and they will likely set us back weeks. Considering we need to go 14-4 in the PAC to get off the bubble, to make up for our 10-3 OOC (I guess BC97 meant we were losing to UNM all along, not A&M. To be fair, he never specified.), we really are screwed with so many teams left on the schedule who are teams that we have to play. They all are actual teams. We are only 25 or so spots above the bubble right now...that is not enough cushion

It is too bad we lose Trier, Allen, and Markkanen. After 3 or 4 other players either die or lose limbs, we simply cannot compete in 17/18 with only a top 3 recruiting class. Maybe if Bowen comes, we will be able to repeat our NIT performance.

dirtbags · Post by **dirtbags** » Mon Dec 19, 2016 12:36 pm

really glad that our guys get a little bit of a break from competition after tomorrow's game. they probably need it right about now. first conference game is just around the corner, so we'll need the team to come back rested and focused.

Spaceman Spiff · Post by **Spaceman Spiff** » Mon Dec 19, 2016 12:43 pm

dirtbags wrote:really glad that our guys get a little bit of a break from competition after tomorrow's game. they probably need it right about now. first conference game is just around the corner, so we'll need the team to come back rested and focused.

Healthy, focused and eligible would be a nice Christmas gift.

Spaceman Spiff · Post by **Spaceman Spiff** » Mon Dec 19, 2016 7:52 pm

Not that this necessarily means much, but DX has both Zo and Rawle in the '18 draft.

http://www.draftexpress.com/nba-mock-draft/2018/" target="_blank

rgdeuce · Post by **rgdeuce** » Tue Dec 20, 2016 8:58 am

Spaceman Spiff wrote:
I left one thing off my list of positives Trier/PJC bring. Rawle and Kobi are still dealing with being young and inconsistent. When we have those two back, even if one (or maybe both) have an off game, you expect Zo and Allen to be steady.

Right now, since we only have 3 guys for 3 spots, the freshman inconsistency means we have to play a guy having an off game for 30+. With PJC and Trier, we have the ability to only play the guys who are on that night for major minutes.

Edit: and if all 5 perimeter guys are on, watch out.

Exactly. And the thing is, Rawle and Kobi are doing it right now basically playing high school one on one ball a lot of the time. Sizing up their defender late in the shot clock and putting the ball on the deck and having to create for themselves. For the most part, Rawle and Kobi's off nights are merely because of the 3 point shot. I give credit to the team, they are doing better than I expected in terms of ball movement, but it's still not to where it will be w PJC running the offense and teams scrambling to cover/recover and help for Lauri and Trier. Going to be a lot of open lanes to slash into and gaps to fill for Kadeem, Rawle and Kobi, and thats all three of those guys' bread and butter. Someone has to take them and getting those guys back will open up better looks for Lauri, Trier is an exceptional shooter, PJC has shown that ability, and Kadeem will be off ball more and get better looks.

Jefe · Post by **Jefe** » Tue Dec 20, 2016 4:20 pm

baconus66 wrote:Am I crazy? I think pjc being back and 100% has more affect on our success than Triers return.

Yes, crazy...

Beachcat97 · Post by **Beachcat97** » Wed Dec 21, 2016 12:17 am

Now that we're through the OOC season, how about some predictions for our Pac schedule? I'll go first (wins in bold):

@Cal
@Stan
Utah
Col
ASU
@USC
@UCLA
WSU
UW
@OSU
@ORE
Stan
Cal
@WSU
@UW
USC
UCLA
@ASU

dcZONAfan · Post by **dcZONAfan** » Wed Dec 21, 2016 2:56 am

It must be so tiring to be BC97.

Unlike you, I will stay consistent. 0-18 in PAC-12 play, putting us squarely on the bubble

Beachcat97 · Post by **Beachcat97** » Wed Dec 21, 2016 8:06 am

dcZONAfan wrote:It must be so tiring to be BC97.

Unlike you, I will stay consistent. 0-18 in PAC-12 play, putting us squarely on the bubble

If what I've predicted ends up happening, we won't be on the bubble but instead seeded somewhere between 4 and 7, depending on our final metrics.

Spaceman Spiff · Post by **Spaceman Spiff** » Wed Dec 21, 2016 8:10 am

dcZONAfan wrote:It must be so tiring to be BC97.

Unlike you, I will stay consistent. 0-18 in PAC-12 play, putting us squarely on the bubble

It's a down year. You need to accept it. These things happen.

Chicat · Post by **Chicat** » Wed Dec 21, 2016 8:19 am

Beachcat97 wrote:
dcZONAfan wrote:It must be so tiring to be BC97.

Unlike you, I will stay consistent. 0-18 in PAC-12 play, putting us squarely on the bubble
If what I've predicted ends up happening, we won't be on the bubble but instead seeded somewhere between 4 and 7, depending on our final metrics.

A 24-6 regular season for a Power 5 team is worthy of a seven seed?

Look at the records of the teams that got 3 seeds last year.

Annnnnnnnnndddd back on ignore...

PHXCATS · Post by **PHXCATS** » Wed Dec 21, 2016 10:06 am

I thought we had a bet? I got U of A going 14 and 4. UCLA and Oregon will be tough and one or two games where the other team just plays well and shots don't seem to fall. It is U of A basketball, you get everyone's best effort, it happens. Although maybe with UCLA being so good it isn't everyone's "super bowl" this year

baycat93 · Post by **baycat93** » Wed Dec 21, 2016 10:34 am

@Cal I think we get CAL at the right time. 10 days off, First game or the short weekend and School is out and a holiday weekend. Cats -3
@Stan I know we should beat Stanford, but with the 7 man rotation the last 5 minutes of this game could be interesting. I think tired legs leads to foul trouble. Furd -1 (if AT is back Cats -3)
UtahBounce back game, first P12 home game. Ball goes in easy. Cats -7
Col Trier is back (wishful thinking), maybe PJC (more wishful thinking), big game for Markk as he is settling in. Cats -1
ASU rivalry game, never know....lalalala... never in doubt. Cats -9+
@USC hopefully the first game where the cats have a full roster and gel. Still will be a tough one. Cats-1
@UCLA I am more optimistic about this game, but on paper UCLA -3
WSU they are bad, we are at home Cats-7
UW see above. except fultz frustratingly goes for 35. Cats -2
@OSU not an easy travel weekend, likely a classic slow start, Cats pull away late Cats-5
@ORE likely spent more energy than we should have against OSU, can't close this one out. Can we guard brooks? OU -1
Stan blow out. Cats -6
Cal hopeful Cats are gelling now. Pinder has his best game and holds Rabb to season worst game. Cats-3
@WSU another tough travel weekend, but getting the Palouse out of the way early helps. Cats -3
@UW Still can't stop Fultz and the whistles don't go our way UW -2
USC Home cooking and a resilient team bounces back. Cats-3
UCLA Defense is at its best. One of the best games of the year nationally. Cats in a tight one as Alford tries to play hero ball again and misses. Cats -1
@ASU Ripe for a let down, but Mckale North brings the Cats back to life in the last 5 minutes with the Cats winning going away. Cats -5

14-4
Maybe a little homeristic. This is a Top 12 team at full strength and should be trending higher as the Freshman continue to grow and roles become more solid.

azcat49 · Post by **azcat49** » Wed Dec 21, 2016 10:40 am

Anyone wonder if Lute missed the new Mexico game as a silent protest to renewing the rivalry?

rgdeuce · Post by **rgdeuce** » Wed Dec 21, 2016 1:35 pm

I don't think Lute is like that and would even care. He has been hands off with the program since CSM took the keys. That was what, 16 years ago? I'm sure he smiled when he saw the final score though.

Main Event · Post by **Main Event** » Wed Dec 21, 2016 1:56 pm

I'm sure Lute gave Sean his blessing on renewing it

1stNGrant Frys · Post by **1stNGrant Frys** » Wed Dec 21, 2016 10:16 pm

The real atrocity of the season is no actual "Get to Know Your Wildcats" interviews just a stupid written answers.

Also that no Christmas singing, just a horrendous music video of player cartoon faces and CGI blaring twisted versions of caroles, literal nightmare fuel. It could be the worst entertainment I've seen in McKale ever.

We want to see awkward interviews and singing!

Merkin · Post by **Merkin** » Thu Dec 22, 2016 9:50 am

Maybe Lute is protesting the shitty OOC home schedule.

No longer the "we will play anyone anyplace" scheduling Lute used to do.

rgdeuce · Post by **rgdeuce** » Thu Dec 22, 2016 10:21 am

It's also Christmas week and cold season

I wouldn't look into it too much.

1standGrant, I agree about the character faces. It was cool the first go round, but normal portraits and schedule posters for a while please. I do like the "Get to know your wildcats" pieces though, usually pretty funny.

Chicat · Post by **Chicat** » Thu Dec 22, 2016 10:43 am

Merkin wrote:Maybe Lute is protesting the shitty OOC home schedule.

No longer the "we will play anyone anyplace" scheduling Lute used to do.

Have we not established ad nauseum that in order to have a good home schedule you have to convince good teams to come to McKale and leave with a loss?

We could still "play anyone, anywhere" and not have a good home schedule. Playing anyone, anywhere only requires a willingness to travel to other schools. It doesn't guarantee anything about the home schedule.

dirtbags · Post by **dirtbags** » Thu Dec 22, 2016 12:46 pm

nice rundown @baycat... great point about catching cal in the opener at a dead haas, albeit without allonzo in the lineup, but i think we'll end up splitting our games with. maybe it's just me, but i think cal could finish third in the pac if cuonzo doesn't coach them out of it. it will be fun to see PJC (when he returns) matchup with charlie moore. i'm totally scapegoating pastner if moore puts up 30 on us.

i'm also not super optimistic about sweeping sc. hard to make heads and tails of them thus far given their nonconf, but i can see the trojans making it rain from 3 while metu gives us problems inside. it'll be tough.

also wanted to take a moment for my annual gripe about having asu as our travel partners. the elegance of the pac's paired-school travel and scheduling is nice, but we get zero benefit playing in tandem with those bozos up in tempe.

rgdeuce · Post by **rgdeuce** » Thu Dec 22, 2016 12:53 pm

We aren't getting swept on the road by the southern California schools if Trier is back.

dirtbags · Post by **dirtbags** » Thu Dec 22, 2016 2:02 pm

having a full week to rest & prep for the socal trip will definitely help. the sc game could also be PJC's first full game back, though playing at galen against jordan mac will be a pretty tall order, no height pun intended.

HiCat · Post by **HiCat** » Thu Dec 22, 2016 3:02 pm

rgdeuce wrote:We aren't getting swept on the road by the southern California schools if Trier is back.

Ditto this. Could be a great game.

Irish27 · Post by **Irish27** » Fri Dec 23, 2016 7:10 pm

Spaceman Spiff · Post by **Spaceman Spiff** » Fri Dec 23, 2016 7:22 pm

Irish27 wrote:

Most sources think UConn.

http://www.kentucky.com/sports/college/ ... 99854.html" target="_blank

Irish27 · Post by **Irish27** » Fri Dec 23, 2016 7:27 pm

Main Event · Post by **Main Event** » Fri Dec 23, 2016 9:50 pm

If it doesn't mess with chemistry, i'm down. More 3 guard lineup combos

enfuego · Post by **enfuego** » Sat Dec 24, 2016 11:02 am

Merkin wrote:Maybe Lute is protesting the shitty OOC home schedule.

No longer the "we will play anyone anyplace" scheduling Lute used to do.

rgdeuce · Post by **rgdeuce** » Tue Dec 27, 2016 9:55 am

Love to have him, but things may look pretty crowded on the wing when you look at the possibility of Trier, Alkins and Kobi with a half of a season under their belts, and Kadeem vying for minutes on the wing after PJC returns. UConn looks like a situation where minutes would be easier to come by if he only wants to be in college a half semester before declaring for the 2017 draft.

Beachcat97 · Post by **Beachcat97** » Tue Dec 27, 2016 12:31 pm

Don't think AT is coming back this season.

ASUHATER! · Post by **ASUHATER!** » Tue Dec 27, 2016 12:33 pm

evidence?

azcat49 · Post by **azcat49** » Tue Dec 27, 2016 12:55 pm

Beachcat97 wrote:Don't think AT is coming back this season.

Too comical. Are you his agent or coach?

Spaceman Spiff · Post by **Spaceman Spiff** » Tue Dec 27, 2016 1:01 pm

azcat49 wrote:
Beachcat97 wrote:Don't think AT is coming back this season.
Too comical. Are you his agent or coach?

Either one would imply having something to do other than starting stuff on this board.

ChooChooCat · Post by **ChooChooCat** » Tue Dec 27, 2016 1:18 pm

Beachcat97 wrote:Don't think AT is coming back this season.

Lol just stfu already.

HiCat · Post by **HiCat** » Tue Dec 27, 2016 1:33 pm

“With Allonzo, none of us know what’s going on there, but I do think he’ll be eligible in the second semester,” Olson told a KVOA reporter.

CalStateTempe · Post by **CalStateTempe** » Tue Dec 27, 2016 1:47 pm

Beachcat97 wrote:Don't think AT is coming back this season.

Why? What do you know?

CalStateTempe · Post by **CalStateTempe** » Tue Dec 27, 2016 1:48 pm

Edit, nm beachcat being beachcat

gumby · Post by **gumby** » Tue Dec 27, 2016 3:30 pm

Spaceman Spiff wrote:
Irish27 wrote:
Most sources think UConn.

http://www.kentucky.com/sports/college/ ... 99854.html" target="_blank

Just when I think college basketball can't get any stranger ...

Spaceman Spiff · Post by **Spaceman Spiff** » Tue Dec 27, 2016 5:23 pm

CalStateTempe wrote:
Beachcat97 wrote:Don't think AT is coming back this season.
Why? What do you know?

That is a good question, but I am not sure there's an answer.

Longhorned · Post by **Longhorned** » Tue Dec 27, 2016 5:39 pm

Rawle Alkins may leave team to focus on astronomy and physics double major. Google it and, if nothing, you heard it here first. Just a feeling, but depressing.

Longhorned · Post by **Longhorned** » Tue Dec 27, 2016 5:50 pm

(10 minutes later)

Guys, pay attention. I said it was just a feeling, and I'm as thrilled as anyone it isn't true. I'm glad my post reverse-jinxed it from happening.

Go Cats!

Chicat · Post by **Chicat** » Tue Dec 27, 2016 6:04 pm

Longhorned wrote:Rawle Alkins may leave team to focus on astronomy and physics double major. Google it and, if nothing, you heard it here first. Just a feeling, but depressing.

Longhorned wrote:(10 minutes later)

Guys, pay attention. I said it was just a feeling, and I'm as thrilled as anyone it isn't true. I'm glad my post reverse-jinxed it from happening.

Go Cats!

Needs more "put me on ignore if you can't handle the truth" and fawning over UCLA.

azcat49 · Post by **azcat49** » Tue Dec 27, 2016 6:50 pm

New date is 1/11 on the street

Spaceman Spiff · Post by **Spaceman Spiff** » Tue Dec 27, 2016 7:01 pm

azcat49 wrote:New date is 1/11 on the street

Zo is going to be thrown out on the street?

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