let's talk '17

Spaceman Spiff · Post by **Spaceman Spiff** » Thu Dec 29, 2016 12:09 pm

I assume the 5'10 point guard is Jason Gardner. He was a McD's All American and a Parade AA. I'm pretty sure Miller would have recruited him. Wright and Arenas weren't lightly regarded guys either. I don't think it's super easy to hack the system by recruiting the shorter guys on the McD's team.

rgdeuce · Post by **rgdeuce** » Thu Dec 29, 2016 12:25 pm

Yep. And yes, Gardner's lack of height is what kept him out of the draft, but that was only because the other attributes (aka the lack of lightning quick speed, or plus passing/floor vision; or a dynamite outside shot) didn't make up for it. Dude was a heck of a player for us though.

SCCats · Post by **SCCats** » Thu Dec 29, 2016 1:21 pm

rgdeuce wrote:Yep. And yes, Gardner's lack of height is what kept him out of the draft, but that was only because the other attributes (aka the lack of lightning quick speed, or plus passing/floor vision; or a dynamite outside shot) didn't make up for it. Dude was a heck of a player for us though.

And that's the magic isn't it: guys who are heck of a player for us, guys who produce for us.

PennZona20 · Post by **PennZona20** » Thu Dec 29, 2016 2:00 pm

Spaceman Spiff wrote:I assume the 5'10 point guard is Jason Gardner. He was a McD's All American and a Parade AA. I'm pretty sure Miller would have recruited him. Wright and Arenas weren't lightly regarded guys either. I don't think it's super easy to hack the system by recruiting the shorter guys on the McD's team.

Arenas absolutely was lightly regarded. There's a reason he wore the number zero. His only other D1 offer I believe was LOng beach st. I know a couple realized he was a diamond in rough AFTER he committed to Arizona but it was too late.

This was one of Lutes best finds honestly. The kid may very well be the most talented player we've ever had at his peak. Lauri may change that but Gilbert is really the closest thing Arizona has ever had to an NBA MVP. That 3 year span in the mid-late 00s is stuff of hall of famers. Too bad he was / is an idiot off the court. And his knee of course. At least he's entertaining.

rgdeuce · Post by **rgdeuce** » Thu Dec 29, 2016 2:24 pm

SCCats wrote:
rgdeuce wrote:Yep. And yes, Gardner's lack of height is what kept him out of the draft, but that was only because the other attributes (aka the lack of lightning quick speed, or plus passing/floor vision; or a dynamite outside shot) didn't make up for it. Dude was a heck of a player for us though.
And that's the magic isn't it: guys who are heck of a player for us, guys who produce for us.

I knew you were going to run with that last sentence. Again, that is one player for us in a completely different era. It worked out for your argument, but who is to say that a dude who was Mr. Basketball in Indiana and a consensus High School All American couldn't have turned himself into a guy who shot 45% from 3 and greatly improved his facilitation skills by his sophomore season and made the leap in 2001 with Arenas, Jefferson, Woods, and Wright? Three of those guys were 2nd rounders with Woods being the only senior. Up to that point, it was rare to see an Arizona stud take the early leap for the draft. Mike Bibby (who would go as a lottery Freshman in today's world) and Brian Williams are the only ones I can recall before that 2001 draft class. Regardless, I will bet my house that Lute did not bring Jason Gardner in thinking, "He's only 5'10'? Im gonna snatch him up since he is undersized and I wont have to lose him to the draft). There probably weren't many teams who weren't foaming at the mouth for Jason Gardner.

rgdeuce · Post by **rgdeuce** » Thu Dec 29, 2016 2:47 pm

PennZona20 wrote:
Spaceman Spiff wrote:I assume the 5'10 point guard is Jason Gardner. He was a McD's All American and a Parade AA. I'm pretty sure Miller would have recruited him. Wright and Arenas weren't lightly regarded guys either. I don't think it's super easy to hack the system by recruiting the shorter guys on the McD's team.

Arenas absolutely was lightly regarded. There's a reason he wore the number zero. His only other D1 offer I believe was LOng beach st. I know a couple realized he was a diamond in rough AFTER he committed to Arizona but it was too late.

This was one of Lutes best finds honestly. The kid may very well be the most talented player we've ever had at his peak. Lauri may change that but Gilbert is really the closest thing Arizona has ever had to an NBA MVP. That 3 year span in the mid-late 00s is stuff of hall of famers. Too bad he was / is an idiot off the court. And his knee of course. At least he's entertaining.

Gilbert was only like 5'6" when he started his senior basketball season and then he hit a growth spurt. He also grew an inch or two at Arizona. Not sure if all that is common knowledge here in Tucson, we were acquainted through mutual friends and he told me that directly. Obviously size was the reason why he wasn't a top recruit in high school, but the dude was still one of the best high school players in southern California. Size is also the reason why he slipped to the early 2nd round when he was clearly first round talent. Back then, guys that are considered combo guards today were almost always considered tweeners.

EVCat · Post by **EVCat** » Fri Dec 30, 2016 8:52 am

you cannot try to recruit 4 year players with 1 year players...you get the best you can get, then fill needs down the list if you don't hit high, and those kind of automatically turn into your 4 year players.

Considering there are only about 15, tops, one and done players a year, and about 10 schools in play for them, you really don't have to worry about it...the vast majority of your class is going to be 4 year, or 3 year.

Miller has, since the breakout of 2011, had, what? Five recruiting classes? So about 20 players, without looking back. Maybe more. Probably more with transfers. Three have been one-and-done, one two-and-done, two were three year players. So maybe 10-15% one and dones? And that was with top classes.

You don't recruit purposely getting 4 year guys and 1 year guys in a mix like some kind of recipe. Recruiting isn't exactly the human grocery store (thanks, Axl). You don't just grab a few 4 year staples and a one year delicacy. The 4 year thing will take care of itself.

EastCoastCat · Post by **EastCoastCat** » Fri Dec 30, 2016 9:05 am

EVCat wrote:you cannot try to recruit 4 year players with 1 year players...you get the best you can get, then fill needs down the list if you don't hit high, and those kind of automatically turn into your 4 year players.

Considering there are only about 15, tops, one and done players a year, and about 10 schools in play for them, you really don't have to worry about it...the vast majority of your class is going to be 4 year, or 3 year.

Miller has, since the breakout of 2011, had, what? Five recruiting classes? So about 20 players, without looking back. Maybe more. Probably more with transfers. Three have been one-and-done, one two-and-done, two were three year players. So maybe 10-15% one and dones? And that was with top classes.

You don't recruit purposely getting 4 year guys and 1 year guys in a mix like some kind of recipe. Recruiting isn't exactly the human grocery store (thanks, Axl). You don't just grab a few 4 year staples and a one year delicacy. The 4 year thing will take care of itself.

In other words it's an Art not a Science which I wholeheartedly agree with.

EVCat · Post by **EVCat** » Fri Dec 30, 2016 9:36 am

you just recruit. Try to get the best players you have a realistic chance at, and at need positions.

And even if you land the best class in the country, you likely have more 3 and 4 year players than 1 year players.

Jefe · Post by **Jefe** » Fri Dec 30, 2016 11:07 am

Spaceman Spiff · Post by **Spaceman Spiff** » Fri Dec 30, 2016 1:20 pm

EVCat wrote:you cannot try to recruit 4 year players with 1 year players...you get the best you can get, then fill needs down the list if you don't hit high, and those kind of automatically turn into your 4 year players.

Considering there are only about 15, tops, one and done players a year, and about 10 schools in play for them, you really don't have to worry about it...the vast majority of your class is going to be 4 year, or 3 year.

Miller has, since the breakout of 2011, had, what? Five recruiting classes? So about 20 players, without looking back. Maybe more. Probably more with transfers. Three have been one-and-done, one two-and-done, two were three year players. So maybe 10-15% one and dones? And that was with top classes.

You don't recruit purposely getting 4 year guys and 1 year guys in a mix like some kind of recipe. Recruiting isn't exactly the human grocery store (thanks, Axl). You don't just grab a few 4 year staples and a one year delicacy. The 4 year thing will take care of itself.

In recruiting, you want to look for skilled, athletic players with a good work ethic who are also good students and solid citizens. There isn't really a magical formula, because everyone else is looking for the same.

The extent to which kids pan out in your expectations...well, you just don't know. After Gabe York's freshman year, I would not have expected him to be a scoring leader. I thought Ray Smith was reasonably likely to be one and done. Trying to get any more than a crapshoot out of high school kids is unlikely to impossible.

SCCats · Post by **SCCats** » Fri Dec 30, 2016 1:57 pm

EVCat wrote:Considering there are only about 15, tops, one and done players a year, and about 10 schools in play for them, you really don't have to worry about it...the vast majority of your class is going to be 4 year, or 3 year.

Ahh rationality.

Your point is the rational one. I'm just not sure it applies at all to the way these top 50 (or even some top 100) recruits are handled at this point.

EVCat · Post by **EVCat** » Fri Dec 30, 2016 2:02 pm

Spaceman Spiff wrote: The extent to which kids pan out in your expectations...well, you just don't know.

That's exactly my point. You cannot do that. You just recruit the best players that fit needs...

rgdeuce · Post by **rgdeuce** » Fri Dec 30, 2016 11:43 pm

Comedy

ChooChooCat · Post by **ChooChooCat** » Sat Dec 31, 2016 12:56 pm

Bowen currently at this Creighton game. Looks like they may be more of a threat than Texas, which would be appropriate since we already lost a guy to Miami lol.

Spaceman Spiff · Post by **Spaceman Spiff** » Sun Jan 01, 2017 1:58 pm

Ayton vs Brandon Randolph (and Bamba).

https://youtu.be/NrA_RoFctfM" target="_blank

Bangkok Wildcat · Post by **Bangkok Wildcat** » Sun Jan 01, 2017 3:02 pm

ChooChooCat wrote:Bowen currently at this Creighton game. Looks like they may be more of a threat than Texas, which would be appropriate since we already lost a guy to Miami lol.

And Texas is stinking it up this year already! Hope we land this stud.

Spaceman Spiff · Post by **Spaceman Spiff** » Mon Jan 02, 2017 8:01 pm

More Ayton, looking just way above the competition.

https://youtu.be/YURxD7Ale-M" target="_blank

ASUHATER! · Post by **ASUHATER!** » Mon Jan 02, 2017 8:11 pm

Spaceman Spiff wrote:More Ayton, looking just way above the competition.

https://youtu.be/YURxD7Ale-M" target="_blank

Lawd he is big. Just has to stand on his tip toes to dunk.

Chicat · Post by **Chicat** » Mon Jan 02, 2017 8:28 pm

He better learn to stop hooking guys and pushing with his off arm otherwise Pac-12 refs are just gonna LOVE calling offensive fouls on him.

RaisingArizona · Post by **RaisingArizona** » Tue Jan 03, 2017 8:34 pm

Spaceman Spiff wrote:Ayton vs Brandon Randolph (and Bamba).

https://youtu.be/NrA_RoFctfM" target="_blank

I skipped the introductions but watched the rest of the video and I kept thinking to myself that whoever gets number five in white is getting a complete stud. I later realized that is a Randolph. One of my most enjoyable bouts of idiocy in recent memory. Wow, is he going to be a player or what? He's either way underrated or this class is super deep from 15-40.

Beachcat97 · Post by **Beachcat97** » Tue Jan 03, 2017 8:43 pm

RaisingArizona wrote:
Spaceman Spiff wrote:Ayton vs Brandon Randolph (and Bamba).

https://youtu.be/NrA_RoFctfM" target="_blank

I skipped the introductions but watched the rest of the video and I kept thinking to myself that whoever gets number five in white is getting a complete stud. I later realized that is a Randolph. One of my most enjoyable bouts of idiocy in recent memory. Wow, is he going to be a player or what? He's either way underrated or this class is super deep from 15-40.

Totally. BR looks really good. We'll be reloading nicely at the 2 spot next season.

Beachcat97 · Post by **Beachcat97** » Wed Jan 04, 2017 8:37 pm

Diallo is announcing on Saturday, per Jeff Borzello.

Bangkok Wildcat · Post by **Bangkok Wildcat** » Wed Jan 04, 2017 9:04 pm

RaisingArizona wrote:
Spaceman Spiff wrote:Ayton vs Brandon Randolph (and Bamba).

https://youtu.be/NrA_RoFctfM" target="_blank

I skipped the introductions but watched the rest of the video and I kept thinking to myself that whoever gets number five in white is getting a complete stud. I later realized that is a Randolph. One of my most enjoyable bouts of idiocy in recent memory. Wow, is he going to be a player or what? He's either way underrated or this class is super deep from 15-40.

Thanks for posting that RaisingArizona re: Randolph.....I didn't notice when I watched it the first time but got to do so again and he looks like a legit stud.

Bangkok Wildcat · Post by **Bangkok Wildcat** » Wed Jan 04, 2017 11:44 pm

I was under the impression that Brian Bowen was nearing a decision......any new word / intel on this stud?

As for Diallo, I have no clue on this one.....if he were to join and play second semester, I would be concerned with chemistry issues and his just wanting to audition for the '17 draft. This is a really strange one to figure out....

ASUHATER! · Post by **ASUHATER!** » Wed Jan 04, 2017 11:46 pm

If Diallo was going to play here this semester he would need to be fully signed, enrolled and on campus by Saturday or Sunday.

ChooChooCat · Post by **ChooChooCat** » Thu Jan 05, 2017 8:07 am

Diallo is going to Kentucky. It's still up in the air if he ever plays a second of college basketball though.

Bowen could decide tomorrow for all anybody knows, but in general the guy keeps pushing back his decision, which is only bad for Arizona IMO. Who knows what'll happen there though.

Beachcat97 · Post by **Beachcat97** » Thu Jan 05, 2017 8:26 am

Diallo visited UConn recently, so I wouldn't rule them out.

I actually think it favors AZ that BB's pushing back his decision. We're having a better season than MSU.

rgdeuce · Post by **rgdeuce** » Thu Jan 05, 2017 8:50 am

That doesn't matter to him. If you read his interviews, Miller himself and Miller's history of sending wings to the first round/lottery are the big selling points for him.

Spaceman Spiff · Post by **Spaceman Spiff** » Thu Jan 05, 2017 8:54 am

rgdeuce wrote:That doesn't matter to him. If you read his interviews, Miller himself and Miller's history of sending wings to the first round/lottery are the big selling points for him.

Only overly touchy fans rate the happenings of a single year too much. Bowen would be silly not to think that both Miller and Izzo will be good coaches who are likely to have success with a guy like Bowen.

Beachcat97 · Post by **Beachcat97** » Thu Jan 05, 2017 9:07 am

Even without BB, our roster is pretty loaded next year. But man:

DA
DR
PJC
KS
RA
CC
BR
BB
AB
DS

ChooChooCat · Post by **ChooChooCat** » Thu Jan 05, 2017 9:50 am

Beachcat97 wrote:Diallo visited UConn recently, so I wouldn't rule them out.

I actually think it favors AZ that BB's pushing back his decision. We're having a better season than MSU.

MSU isn't even the primary competition for him at the moment.

Beachcat97 · Post by **Beachcat97** » Thu Jan 05, 2017 9:56 am

ChooChooCat wrote:
Beachcat97 wrote:Diallo visited UConn recently, so I wouldn't rule them out.

I actually think it favors AZ that BB's pushing back his decision. We're having a better season than MSU.
MSU isn't even the primary competition for him at the moment.

Source? It's seemed for a while now that MSU is his #1.

gumby · Post by **gumby** » Thu Jan 05, 2017 10:06 am

More Randolph.

http://highschoolsports.pennlive.com/ne ... c-city-nj/" target="_blank

Quite the guard/wing logjam if KS and RA return.

PJC, KS, RA, BR, AB, DS

Then again, we thought we had that this year.

A factor in Bowen's decision?

Beachcat97 · Post by **Beachcat97** » Thu Jan 05, 2017 11:01 am

Think it's safe to assume that either KS or RA will declare for the draft, if not both. Neither is ready, of course, but guys leave prematurely all the time. No idea what AT will do, either.

So yeah, BB is looking at a possible roster at AZ that is teeming with guard/wing types. Maybe more playing time for him elsewhere. I wouldn't think an elite player would get scared away by roster depth.

EVCat · Post by **EVCat** » Thu Jan 05, 2017 11:28 am

Beachcat97 wrote:Think it's safe to assume that either KS or RA will declare for the draft, if not both. Neither is ready, of course, but guys leave prematurely all the time. No idea what AT will do, either.

You keep saying this and you keep getting told why that is not reasonable, but I assume you don't actually read...

The NBA doesn't need an undersized combo guard who flopped at the point and isn't shooting better than average, or an average wing without amazing athleticism that is a streaky shooter. There are 100s of those guys. Both may develop into NBA prospects, but neither is ready now. And we have had exactly one player leave after their freshman year without a lottery locked, and he was a 6'11" stretch 4, which is relatively rare. So who is this "guys leave ARIZONA prematurely all the time" list? Juniors leaving because they have shown their full maturation, who won't grow and their only issue is height are not leaving prematurely, as they would not have improved a thing in their status, and may have dipped staying (Nick, Brandon).

It is not only not safe to assume, it is absolutely idiotic to assume, and also highly unlikely (anything is possible, but "safe to assume" infers it it...safe to assume. When, really, it would be safe to assume they are both returning).

I really don't keep doing this for you...just to make sure reasonable people who scan the board don't walk away with that narrative...

ChooChooCat · Post by **ChooChooCat** » Thu Jan 05, 2017 11:28 am

Beachcat97 wrote:
ChooChooCat wrote:
Beachcat97 wrote:Diallo visited UConn recently, so I wouldn't rule them out.

I actually think it favors AZ that BB's pushing back his decision. We're having a better season than MSU.
MSU isn't even the primary competition for him at the moment.
Source? It's seemed for a while now that MSU is his #1.

If you only look at crystal balls, sure. This recruitment at the moment is an Arizona/Creighton battle.

ChooChooCat · Post by **ChooChooCat** » Thu Jan 05, 2017 11:29 am

Beachcat97 wrote:Think it's safe to assume that either KS or RA will declare for the draft, if not both. Neither is ready, of course, but guys leave prematurely all the time. No idea what AT will do, either.

So yeah, BB is looking at a possible roster at AZ that is teeming with guard/wing types. Maybe more playing time for him elsewhere. I wouldn't think an elite player would get scared away by roster depth.

Don't know if I'd call Bowen an "elite" guy. That's typically reserved for sure fire one and dones, something he is not.

ChooChooCat · Post by **ChooChooCat** » Thu Jan 05, 2017 11:32 am

EVCat wrote:
Beachcat97 wrote:Think it's safe to assume that either KS or RA will declare for the draft, if not both. Neither is ready, of course, but guys leave prematurely all the time. No idea what AT will do, either.

You keep saying this and you keep getting told why that is not reasonable, but I assume you don't actually read...

The NBA doesn't need an undersized combo guard who flopped at the point and isn't shooting better than average, or an average wing without amazing athleticism that is a streaky shooter. There are 100s of those guys. Both may develop into NBA prospects, but neither is ready now. And we have had exactly one player leave after their freshman year without a lottery locked, and he was a 6'11" stretch 4, which is relatively rare. So who is this "guys leave ARIZONA prematurely all the time" list? Juniors leaving because they have shown their full maturation, who won't grow and their only issue is height are not leaving prematurely, as they would not have improved a thing in their status, and may have dipped staying (Nick, Brandon).

It is not only not safe to assume, it is absolutely idiotic to assume, and also highly unlikely (anything is possible, but "safe to assume" infers it it...safe to assume. When, really, it would be safe to assume they are both returning).

I really don't keep doing this for you...just to make sure reasonable people who scan the board don't walk away with that narrative...

There's this as well lol.

Jonathan Givony (the best in the mock draft business) has both Kobi and Rawle in the 2018 draft and neither lottery picks. I suppose one or either could leave early for this absolutely loaded draft class, but I wouldn't hedge bets on that at all.

rgdeuce · Post by **rgdeuce** » Thu Jan 05, 2017 11:55 am

gumby wrote:More Randolph.

http://highschoolsports.pennlive.com/ne ... c-city-nj/" target="_blank

Quite the guard/wing logjam if KS and RA return.

PJC, KS, RA, BR, AB, DS

Then again, we thought we had that this year.

A factor in Bowen's decision?

Has to be on his mind you would think. Those guys and Trier.

gumby · Post by **gumby** » Thu Jan 05, 2017 3:26 pm

Beachcat97 wrote:Think it's safe to assume that either KS or RA will declare for the draft, if not both. Neither is ready, of course, but guys leave prematurely all the time. No idea what AT will do, either.

You have no idea, period.

But Kobi and/or Rawle are definitely gone, though not listed.

T Ferg. at 18.

Beachcat97 · Post by **Beachcat97** » Thu Jan 05, 2017 4:09 pm

Since most are very sure that our freshman guards will be back, we're looking at

PJC
RA
KS
DA
DR

CC, BR, IL, DS, AB

If we actually land Bowen, that's arguably the best roster Miller has ever had.

Bangkok Wildcat · Post by **Bangkok Wildcat** » Thu Jan 05, 2017 5:46 pm

EVCat wrote:
Beachcat97 wrote:Think it's safe to assume that either KS or RA will declare for the draft, if not both. Neither is ready, of course, but guys leave prematurely all the time. No idea what AT will do, either.

You keep saying this and you keep getting told why that is not reasonable, but I assume you don't actually read...

The NBA doesn't need an undersized combo guard who flopped at the point and isn't shooting better than average, or an average wing without amazing athleticism that is a streaky shooter. There are 100s of those guys. Both may develop into NBA prospects, but neither is ready now. And we have had exactly one player leave after their freshman year without a lottery locked, and he was a 6'11" stretch 4, which is relatively rare. So who is this "guys leave ARIZONA prematurely all the time" list? Juniors leaving because they have shown their full maturation, who won't grow and their only issue is height are not leaving prematurely, as they would not have improved a thing in their status, and may have dipped staying (Nick, Brandon).

It is not only not safe to assume, it is absolutely idiotic to assume, and also highly unlikely (anything is possible, but "safe to assume" infers it it...safe to assume. When, really, it would be safe to assume they are both returning).

I really don't keep doing this for you...just to make sure reasonable people who scan the board don't walk away with that narrative...

Thanks EVCat....I found your analysis extremely informative and reassuring.....From your analysis it looks like we've been pretty fortunate in that most early defections have been for the right reasons with just a few exception(s).

Hopefully this trend will continue with Kobi and Rawle, etc.

PennZona20 · Post by **PennZona20** » Thu Jan 05, 2017 10:44 pm

Why is everyone assuming Trier is gone??

He's a 2nd round pick as of this moment and as most have noted, draft is loaded in 17.

I could honestly see all 3 staying, and in that case I would say it might get a bit crowded for BB. I get the factors of AT might just say F the NCAA and hes over it after the debacle this year or he might come back out for blood and skyrocket his stock but to just assume he's gone, without knowing him personally ..... at this point, that seems a little too assuming imo.

If I were BB and I was leaning towards AZ but not dream school want to go there type, I'd wait to see who leaves. And if any of those 3 wings bolt id come to AZ , but if all 3 stayed I'd go w plan B.

Harvey Specter · Post by **Harvey Specter** » Thu Jan 05, 2017 10:54 pm

PennZona20 wrote:Why is everyone assuming Trier is gone??

He's a 2nd round pick as of this moment and as most have noted, draft is loaded in 17.

I could honestly see all 3 staying, and in that case I would say it might get a bit crowded for BB. I get the factors of AT might just say F the NCAA and hes over it after the debacle this year or he might come back out for blood and skyrocket his stock but to just assume he's gone, without knowing him personally ..... at this point, that seems a little too assuming imo.

If I were BB and I was leaning towards AZ but not dream school want to go there type, I'd wait to see who leaves. And if any of those 3 wings bolt id come to AZ , but if all 3 stayed I'd go w plan B.

I have never understood all the talk on the board last year about what a great NBA prospect that Trier was... I don't see it, and never have. Very good college player, but not sure about next level.

I think part of it was spurred by 97Cats that (as a recruit) he was a Chauncey Billups v2.0 - which he is not.

Beachcat97 · Post by **Beachcat97** » Thu Jan 05, 2017 11:01 pm

Trier will play in the NBA. He's good enough.

rgdeuce · Post by **rgdeuce** » Thu Jan 05, 2017 11:12 pm

Trier can stroke (pause), beat you with his dribble and finish. He isnt a freak athlete like Kobi, but he has a very polished and crafty offensive game and several NBA good moves that would bode him well at the next level. I said this last year, but he is like a skilled running back who sees multiple layers of a defense before he attacks, he doesnt just beat one man and then react to the help when it comes. You dont see that in many players, especially guys his age. Hes just two inches shy of being an ideal NBA prospect and his ceiling is limited because of his size, but he is a guy who could be a nice guy to have on your bench for some buckets. Basically, NBA game but not an NBA body

PennZona20 · Post by **PennZona20** » Thu Jan 05, 2017 11:41 pm

I agree he'll be an NBA player. Just not sure about all the 2 and done guarantees like he's RHJ or something when most mocks have him late 2nd this year.

I do also realize the fiasco this year may push him out the door instead of risking some more bullshit next year.

Beachcat97 · Post by **Beachcat97** » Thu Jan 05, 2017 11:46 pm

It would really be nice to know what the hell is keeping him sidelined.

Harvey Specter · Post by **Harvey Specter** » Thu Jan 05, 2017 11:59 pm

PennZona20 wrote:I agree he'll be an NBA player. Just not sure about all the 2 and done guarantees like he's RHJ or something when most mocks have him late 2nd this year.

I do also realize the fiasco this year may push him out the door instead of risking some more bullshit next year.

Shouldn't we wait to see why he isn't playing before declaring it is some bullshit, unfair reason? Most fanbases do, I realize - but...

Regarding other posts - I think he will spend some time in the NBA, but I am not sure how long - and I am not sure how productive he will be.

Time will tell.... but there is no way I'd draft him in the lottery, and I seriously doubt I would take him in the first round.

I hope I am wrong...

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