Allonzo Trier

HiCat · Post by **HiCat** » Wed Mar 01, 2017 8:58 am

My speculation is Alonzo's nba draft stock went up after UCLA. Who knows
by how much. If Arizona got the win, they'd be more excitement about him
But his performance gets lost for now.

Spaceman Spiff · Post by **Spaceman Spiff** » Wed Mar 01, 2017 9:12 am

HiCat wrote:My speculation is Alonzo's nba draft stock went up after UCLA. Who knows
by how much. If Arizona got the win, they'd be more excitement about him
But his performance gets lost for now.

NBA scout wise, the result doesn't matter. Washington sucks and Fultz is a consensus #1 pick.

I agree that Zo helped his stock by showing out against UCLA. How much he helped, especially in a loaded class, that's the question.

Jefe · Post by **Jefe** » Wed Mar 01, 2017 4:06 pm

http://www.cbssports.com/nba/news/2017- ... -to-76ers/" target="_blank

7. Lauri
12. Allonzo

Merkin · Post by **Merkin** » Wed Mar 01, 2017 4:14 pm

Draft Express says "huh"?

http://www.draftexpress.com/profile/All ... ier-70279/" target="_blank

Pick: 51 in 2017 Mock Draft
Rank 69 in Top 100 Prospects
Rank 21 in NCAA Sophomores
Rank 15 in Top Pac 12 Prospects

Jefe · Post by **Jefe** » Wed Mar 01, 2017 4:50 pm

Ya thats from September. The latest draftexpress was 3 weeks ago and has Trier 51st

Spaceman Spiff · Post by **Spaceman Spiff** » Wed Mar 01, 2017 4:53 pm

Jefe wrote:http://www.cbssports.com/nba/news/2017- ... -to-76ers/

7. Lauri
12. Allonzo

12 is the most wildly optimistic Trier prediction I've ever seen. Wow. If that happened, I should have more faith in miracles.

NYCat · Post by **NYCat** » Wed Mar 01, 2017 4:57 pm

Maybe if he goes Kemba Walker during March madness, but if he does we get Bowen and a FF. At least we add a piece.

Jefe · Post by **Jefe** » Wed Mar 01, 2017 4:58 pm

He's playing like a top 5 player in the country the last 3 games. Had he been playing all season, he'd be a lottery pick IMO

Spaceman Spiff · Post by **Spaceman Spiff** » Wed Mar 01, 2017 7:16 pm

Jefe wrote:He's playing like a top 5 player in the country the last 3 games. Had he been playing all season, he'd be a lottery pick IMO

I'm not sure there's a way Zo could play that could make him a lottery pick this year.

PennZona20 · Post by **PennZona20** » Thu Mar 02, 2017 12:31 am

I love Zo but he's not a lotto pick in this draft class. I don't care if he goes Kemba/melo/Wally Z final form and leads us to a ship.

I mean if he does all that he's a lock 1st rounder and maybe even late teens and should go, but there are already 15ish guys I just can't see him jumping.

Man I am salivating at a possible roster next year if certain guys return though. First things first , let's get that FF.

AZQuik · Post by **AZQuik** » Thu Mar 02, 2017 5:05 am

PennZona20 wrote:I love Zo but he's not a lotto pick in this draft class. I don't care if he goes Kemba/melo/Wally Z final form and leads us to a ship.

I mean if he does all that he's a lock 1st rounder and maybe even late teens and should go, but there are already 15ish guys I just can't see him jumping.

Man I am salivating at a possible roster next year if certain guys return though. First things first , let's get that FF.

How about "let's beat ASU"

Then "let's tear up the pac 10 tourney"

I see a lot of talk constantly about, "if we run the table, we can get a 1 seed" and not enough, "let's get this next game"

Not saying it's you, just good bilboard material in your post.

Let's enjoy the process. What a fun team to watch this year, and sure, like 8-10 teams this year, if we go on a roll we can win it all!

Puerco · Post by **Puerco** » Thu Mar 02, 2017 5:13 am

As a fan, I find restricting my discussion to only the next game to be incredibly boring. So I hope you don't mind if we continue to speculate far into the future around here.

Chicat · Post by **Chicat** » Thu Mar 02, 2017 6:05 am

Merkin wrote:Draft Express says "huh"?

http://www.draftexpress.com/profile/All ... ier-70279/" target="_blank

Pick: 51 in 2017 Mock Draft
Rank 69 in Top 100 Prospects
Rank 21 in NCAA Sophomores
Rank 15 in Top Pac 12 Prospects

It would be interesting to see how often their predictions in late February come within 5 draft slots of what actually happens. Saying "yeah but Draft Express" could have very little or a lot of meaning depending on the results.

TucsonClip · Post by **TucsonClip** » Thu Mar 02, 2017 11:52 am

Chicat wrote:
Merkin wrote:Draft Express says "huh"?

http://www.draftexpress.com/profile/All ... ier-70279/" target="_blank

Pick: 51 in 2017 Mock Draft
Rank 69 in Top 100 Prospects
Rank 21 in NCAA Sophomores
Rank 15 in Top Pac 12 Prospects
It would be interesting to see how often their predictions in late February come within 5 draft slots of what actually happens. Saying "yeah but Draft Express" could have very little or a lot of meaning depending on the results.

Theyll adjust some of their projections once NBA teams begin to focus on the draft, which is happening right now. Could see a lot of movement from lower ranked guys as the season comes to a close and the combine starts.

I also dont think there was any way Trier was going to make it as a lottery pick this year, and im a big fan.

Spaceman Spiff · Post by **Spaceman Spiff** » Thu Mar 02, 2017 11:59 am

TucsonClip wrote:
Chicat wrote:
Merkin wrote:Draft Express says "huh"?

http://www.draftexpress.com/profile/All ... ier-70279/" target="_blank

Pick: 51 in 2017 Mock Draft
Rank 69 in Top 100 Prospects
Rank 21 in NCAA Sophomores
Rank 15 in Top Pac 12 Prospects
It would be interesting to see how often their predictions in late February come within 5 draft slots of what actually happens. Saying "yeah but Draft Express" could have very little or a lot of meaning depending on the results.
Theyll adjust some of their projections once NBA teams begin to focus on the draft, which is happening right now. Could see a lot of movement from lower ranked guys as the season comes to a close and the combine starts.

I also dont think there was any way Trier was going to make it as a lottery pick this year, and im a big fan.

At his height, position and athleticism plus the draft class depth, I don't see any way he can make lottery.

Merkin · Post by **Merkin** » Thu Mar 02, 2017 12:21 pm

Trier's wingspan lists at 6'6". Zo's height is listed at 6'5", so will probably measure 6'3" or so at the combine.

Compare that to RHJ, which at the combine measured 6'5.5" tall, and a 7'2" wingspan.

NYCat · Post by **NYCat** » Thu Mar 02, 2017 12:28 pm

https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/wh ... -prospect/" target="_blank

Looking a the Weiland NBA draft prospect benchmarks (read about it above)

For SG, past successful NBA prospects must have in college

(Per 40min)

50% 2PT%
30% 3PT%
20 points
1.3 STL/BLK
7 RSB (rebounds + steals + blocks)
.8 AST/TO

If a player tops all of these benchmarks, he’s a decent prospect. If he falls below in any one category, that’s a red flag. The further below the number he falls, the less of a prospect he is.

Trier has 3/6 (2Pt, 3Pt, Points)

Good scorer, but not much else. We already knew that. To make it in the association you have to be good at multiple things.

TucsonClip · Post by **TucsonClip** » Thu Mar 02, 2017 2:15 pm

NYCat wrote:https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/wh ... -prospect/

Looking a the Weiland NBA draft prospect benchmarks (read about it above)

For SG, past successful NBA prospects must have in college

(Per 40min)

50% 2PT%
30% 3PT%
20 points
1.3 STL/BLK
7 RSB (rebounds + steals + blocks)
.8 AST/TO

If a player tops all of these benchmarks, he’s a decent prospect. If he falls below in any one category, that’s a red flag. The further below the number he falls, the less of a prospect he is.
Trier has 3/6 (2Pt, 3Pt, Points)

Good scorer, but not much else. We already knew that. To make it in the association you have to be good at multiple things.

Career wise, Trier has 3/6. This season, Trier has 5/6. He is trending upwards, which is a really good sign. Even better is that fact that hes made significant improvement in most of those categories (Ast, Stl, 3pt%, tov).

I like his ball skills, but the best part is that he lives at the free throw line, is efficient on ball with a high usage rate, and finishes pretty well around the rim despite not having elite length or being a top end athlete.

Think his game translates to the next level because of that, but in what role? I think his shooting will continue to improve, his usage+efficiency+FTr makes him an offensive option, but will his defense keep improving? Hes locked in as a SG and definitely worth a shot in the second round.

HiCat · Post by **HiCat** » Thu Mar 02, 2017 2:44 pm

Top 20 -25 now. With a great run in March who knows then.

EVCat · Post by **EVCat** » Fri Mar 03, 2017 8:20 am

Puerco wrote:As a fan, I find restricting my discussion to only the next game to be incredibly boring. So I hope you don't mind if we continue to speculate far into the future around here.

Are you saying we aren't playing in this game?

Jefe · Post by **Jefe** » Fri Mar 03, 2017 4:14 pm

Spaceman Spiff wrote:I'm not sure there's a way Zo could play that could make him a lottery pick this year.

Too small for the NBA?

Spaceman Spiff · Post by **Spaceman Spiff** » Fri Mar 03, 2017 5:30 pm

Jefe wrote:
Spaceman Spiff wrote:I'm not sure there's a way Zo could play that could make him a lottery pick this year.
Too small for the NBA?

Size plus not an elite, explosive athlete and not a combo guard. He is a 2 all the way right now and is probably 6'4 max and a good but not great athlete.

I don't see that profile changing, and with as much talent as is in this class, I have a hard time seeing him jumping enough people regardless of how he performs. Basically unless he becomes a pg...

ChooChooCat · Post by **ChooChooCat** » Fri Mar 03, 2017 5:41 pm

Spaceman Spiff wrote:
Jefe wrote:
Spaceman Spiff wrote:I'm not sure there's a way Zo could play that could make him a lottery pick this year.
Too small for the NBA?
Size plus not an elite, explosive athlete and not a combo guard. He is a 2 all the way right now and is probably 6'4 max and a good but not great athlete.

I don't see that profile changing, and with as much talent as is in this class, I have a hard time seeing him jumping enough people regardless of how he performs. Basically unless he becomes a pg...

Yeah he never had the profile to be a lottery pick even if he played all season and beasted. He always had an end of 1st round ceiling. If he had a huge tournament maybe he could sneak into the very end of the 1st if a team really believed in him, but more than likely the best he could do is top of 2nd.

NYCat · Post by **NYCat** » Mon Mar 06, 2017 12:32 pm

Merkin wrote:Draft Express says "huh"?

http://www.draftexpress.com/profile/All ... ier-70279/" target="_blank

Pick: 51 in 2017 Mock Draft
Rank 69 in Top 100 Prospects
Rank 21 in NCAA Sophomores
Rank 15 in Top Pac 12 Prospects

Drops out of the 2nd round

azcat49 · Post by **azcat49** » Mon Mar 06, 2017 3:55 pm

Curious where he stacks up against Tyler Dorsey in these mock drafts. Both have been good for their respective teams . Who does the NBA covet more?

Spaceman Spiff · Post by **Spaceman Spiff** » Mon Mar 06, 2017 4:01 pm

azcat49 wrote:Curious where he stacks up against Tyler Dorsey in these mock drafts. Both have been good for their respective teams . Who does the NBA covet more?

DX has a top 100 ranking. Neither Zo or Dorsey is in the current '17 draft class.

Sort of underlining my point from earlier, Grayson Allen is a mid second rounder. This is a stacked class and an undersized 2 guard will have a tough time. If a guy like Allen can trip and fall all the way to mid second, it's a deep class, because he's usually late first.

Kobi at 51 is the only non-Lauri Wildcat. I would take that being our two departures in a heartbeat.

CalStateTempe · Post by **CalStateTempe** » Mon Mar 06, 2017 4:07 pm

So does he stay or go? I would love a full year of a pissed off AT. As much as I hate when he gets into hero ball mode with this team, I'd be fine with him as an upperclassmen doing it and having the new comers have to play to his strengths. So long as he is producing that is.

If he stays, does he work on his defense in the offseason to add another skill set for NBA longevity?

NYCat · Post by **NYCat** » Mon Mar 06, 2017 4:11 pm

azcat49 wrote:Curious where he stacks up against Tyler Dorsey in these mock drafts. Both have been good for their respective teams . Who does the NBA covet more?

Isaiah Briscoe is a better prospect than both. I guess he's more combo guard than straight SG. That what both of them have to do if they want to be in NBA.

PennZona20 · Post by **PennZona20** » Tue Mar 07, 2017 3:02 am

Why can't I shake this feeling Lauri might stay??

Then again I'm the idiot who started to get hopeful when all the rumors were out about Stanley really wrestling w a decision.

In the end, 1 in 25 guys forego a top 10 pick to stay and improve for year 2.

Puerco · Post by **Puerco** » Tue Mar 07, 2017 5:24 am

From all reports, we should have all been hopeful about Stanley's decision.

gumby · Post by **gumby** » Tue Mar 07, 2017 8:25 am

Puerco wrote:From all reports, we should have all been hopeful about Stanley's decision.

85 percent chance at FiveThirtyEight ...

gumby · Post by **gumby** » Tue Mar 07, 2017 8:27 am

PennZona20 wrote:Why can't I shake this feeling Lauri might stay??

Oooga-chugga-chugga-chugga. Oooga chugga-chugga-chugga ...

I can't stop this feelin ... deep inside of me ...

CalStateTempe · Post by **CalStateTempe** » Tue Mar 07, 2017 9:13 am

Merkin · Post by **Merkin** » Tue Mar 07, 2017 9:19 am

Don't hassle the Hoff!

>

YoDeFoe · Post by **YoDeFoe** » Tue Mar 07, 2017 12:38 pm

I'm not buying the Draft Express analysis that Trier is ranked in the 70s.

#72 Allonzo Trier, So 6'5"
16.4 PPG 5.0 RPG 2.5 APG 23.8 PER

Who is in front of him as a two guard on that board that deserves to be there. Let's cut it at 15p, 4rb, 2asts, 20 PER.

# 39 Josh Hart, Sr 6'6"
18.7 PPG 6.5 RPG 3.2 APG 28.8 PER

#26 Donovan Mitchell, So 6'3"
15.9 PPG 4.7 RPG 2.6 APG 23.0 PER

# 22 Luke Kennard, So 6'5"
20.1 PPG 5.3 RPG 2.5 APG 25.7 PER

And doesn't make the cut but makes up for it in points:

#9 Malik Monk, Fr 6'5"
21.2 PPG 2.6 RPG 2.4 APG 23.1 PER

So Luke Kennard goes FIFTY spots before Trier? Same with Donovan Mitchell (http://www.draftexpress.com/profile/Don ... ell-84680/" target="_blank) who has similar stats to Trier (http://www.draftexpress.com/profile/All ... ier-70279/" target="_blank)... except that Trier is taller, a better shooter, gets to the line much more often, turns it over less and is far more efficient? He is admittedly a better perimeter defender, though how that holds up against the taller NBA is a question mark.

I'm far more inclined to believe that this is closer to reality: http://www.nbadraft.net/2017mock_draft" target="_blank

Mitchell and FSU's Bacon and Kennard and Trier all in the late first round. I mean, any mock draft that calls Terrance Ferguson a top 15 pick should immediately be called suspect.

NYCat · Post by **NYCat** » Tue Mar 07, 2017 1:45 pm

First, no way is Trier and monk 6'5, monk is 6'3 ish, Trier is 6'4 at best.

Line Kennard, Hart have better size for being a straight SG not combo's. Kennard is a really good shooter.

Trier isn't big enough, athletic enough, skilled enough to be only a 2 guard in the NBA.

Ferguson will be drafted on potential, he's a potential prime 3 & D and incredibly athletic player which the NBA loves.

Zach Levine went #13 in the 1st round purely on his athleticism and potential upside despite being meh at UCLA.

YoDeFoe · Post by **YoDeFoe** » Tue Mar 07, 2017 2:05 pm

Luke Kennard has better size and athleticism than Trier to be an NBA two guard? Really.

http://www.draftexpress.com/profile/Luke-Kennard-72914/" target="_blank

http://www.draftexpress.com/profile/All ... ier-70279/" target="_blank

Kennard may possibly be an inch taller than Trier with an inch shorter wingspan.

And Ferguson just completed a season shooting 31% from 3pt, posting well below Aussie NBL numbers (http://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/1870 ... e-ferguson" target="_blank). Scroll down and compare his stats against what Mudiay put up in China. It's night and day.

Ferguson is not a first round draft pick.

Jefe · Post by **Jefe** » Tue Mar 07, 2017 4:58 pm

CBS still with Allonzo at 12

http://www.cbssports.com/nba/draft/mock-draft" target="_blank

EVCat · Post by **EVCat** » Wed Mar 08, 2017 8:29 am

Jefe wrote:CBS still with Allonzo at 12

http://www.cbssports.com/nba/draft/mock-draft" target="_blank

This is pretty much right in line with everyone else...meaning, there is no consensus on Zo. I have not seen the opinion vary on a potential draftee like this in the modern scouting/internet era.

rgdeuce · Post by **rgdeuce** » Wed Mar 08, 2017 8:45 am

I'll put it this way, there is no way in hell Trier does not get nabbed up by someone in the second round. There will be teams who tell him they will take him with their 2nd round pick if he is on the board. If he is comfortable with a non-guaranteed contract, he is gone and someone will scoop him up. The dude has advanced get to the hoop moves, he can finish, he gets to the foul line, he can create his own shot, and he can shoot from anywhere. That complete offensive skill set is not going to be ignored. The guys who are just great "basketball players" that have size/physical/athleticism concerns go in the second round (see guys like Leon Powe, Big Baby Davis, Jared Sullinger). At the end of the day, Trier is one of the best COMPLETE scorers in the nation and that was with missing 2/3 of the season. I can think of a few teams who would have him on their 15-man roster, and the D-league is always an option.

CalStateTempe · Post by **CalStateTempe** » Wed Mar 08, 2017 8:54 am

Maybe he'll come to the kings, lol

Jefe · Post by **Jefe** » Wed Mar 08, 2017 1:57 pm

http://vsporto.com/episode/19764/nba-pr ... will-rise/" target="_blank

The Further Arizona Advances, the Higher Allonzo Trier's NBA Draft Stock Will Rise

Jonathan Wasserman of Bleacher Report talks about how Allonzo Trier's NBA draft stock will continue to rise the better Arizona does in the postseason tournaments.

EVCat · Post by **EVCat** » Wed Mar 08, 2017 2:49 pm

Jefe wrote:http://vsporto.com/episode/19764/nba-pr ... will-rise/

The Further Arizona Advances, the Higher Allonzo Trier's NBA Draft Stock Will Rise

Jonathan Wasserman of Bleacher Report talks about how Allonzo Trier's NBA draft stock will continue to rise the better Arizona does in the postseason tournaments.

I don't subscribe to this line of thinking, other than the actual substance of what he may show in that tournament run that he did not put on film before.

NBA Scouts aren't in the habit of using mid to late 1st or 2nd round picks to draft season ticket seat fillers. It is about what he can do, and NBA scouts and GMs are going to look way beyond a 1 to 6 game run of games. This isn't like the 50's when the Wildcats would be taking the train back east for a barnstorming tour that would allow Red Auerbach to see the plucky Zona Cagers for the first time through the cigar smoke.

jajoyce · Post by **jajoyce** » Wed Mar 08, 2017 3:21 pm

CalStateTempe wrote:Maybe he'll come to the kings, lol

Don't ever wish that on anyone! Although I am enjoying cheap tickets to the games this year!

Jefe · Post by **Jefe** » Wed Mar 08, 2017 4:03 pm

EVCat wrote:I don't subscribe to this line of thinking, other than the actual substance of what he may show in that tournament run that he did not put on film before. NBA Scouts aren't in the habit of using mid to late 1st or 2nd round picks to draft season ticket seat fillers. It is about what he can do, and NBA scouts and GMs are going to look way beyond a 1 to 6 game run of games.

This is what they will see from him as a freshman and why a lot of us thought he was gone a year ago

Allonzo is old. Turned 21 in January

EVCat · Post by **EVCat** » Wed Mar 08, 2017 4:06 pm

That is fine...

I just don't think there is a GM in the NBA that is going to be caught off guard by anything he does in the tournament...unless he does something new.

CalStateTempe · Post by **CalStateTempe** » Wed Mar 08, 2017 5:01 pm

Like play defense?

Spaceman Spiff · Post by **Spaceman Spiff** » Wed Mar 08, 2017 5:22 pm

EVCat wrote:That is fine...

I just don't think there is a GM in the NBA that is going to be caught off guard by anything he does in the tournament...unless he does something new.

Maybe he'll lift his shirt to reveal Kuato.

Puerco · Post by **Puerco** » Thu Mar 09, 2017 4:46 am

rgdeuce wrote:I'll put it this way, there is no way in hell Trier does not get nabbed up by someone in the second round. There will be teams who tell him they will take him with their 2nd round pick if he is on the board. If he is comfortable with a non-guaranteed contract, he is gone and someone will scoop him up. The dude has advanced get to the hoop moves, he can finish, he gets to the foul line, he can create his own shot, and he can shoot from anywhere. That complete offensive skill set is not going to be ignored. The guys who are just great "basketball players" that have size/physical/athleticism concerns go in the second round (see guys like Leon Powe, Big Baby Davis, Jared Sullinger). At the end of the day, Trier is one of the best COMPLETE scorers in the nation and that was with missing 2/3 of the season. I can think of a few teams who would have him on their 15-man roster, and the D-league is always an option.

You think he's got get to the hoop moves and will be able to finish against NBA-level defenders? Not so sure. I would never attempt to pick who goes in the late second round, but I don't see Trier going above that this year.

rgdeuce · Post by **rgdeuce** » Thu Mar 09, 2017 1:59 pm

Puerco wrote:
rgdeuce wrote:I'll put it this way, there is no way in hell Trier does not get nabbed up by someone in the second round. There will be teams who tell him they will take him with their 2nd round pick if he is on the board. If he is comfortable with a non-guaranteed contract, he is gone and someone will scoop him up. The dude has advanced get to the hoop moves, he can finish, he gets to the foul line, he can create his own shot, and he can shoot from anywhere. That complete offensive skill set is not going to be ignored. The guys who are just great "basketball players" that have size/physical/athleticism concerns go in the second round (see guys like Leon Powe, Big Baby Davis, Jared Sullinger). At the end of the day, Trier is one of the best COMPLETE scorers in the nation and that was with missing 2/3 of the season. I can think of a few teams who would have him on their 15-man roster, and the D-league is always an option.
You think he's got get to the hoop moves and will be able to finish against NBA-level defenders? Not so sure. I would never attempt to pick who goes in the late second round, but I don't see Trier going above that this year.

I do. That was a concern of Paul Pierce coming out of Kansas and why he dropped to the Celtics at pick 10 in the 1998 draft. Pierce did not have superior speed, quickness, handles, and explosiveness and that never changed. But he did have a complete offensive game in that he could drill a 3 if you sagged off. If you respected the 3 or closed out, he could pump fake and/or use guile and craft to get by you. From there he could either pull up and sink a midrange jumper, or keep driving to the bucket and finish or draw a foul and get to the foul line. Even in his 30s after he had lost a step, Pierce could be one of the best scorers in the league when he wanted to. Without shoes, I'm betting Zo is 2 inches shorter than Pierce, and he will never have the back to the basket game Pierce has unless he is doing it on a much shorter guard. But like Pierce, he has a complete offensive game and the need to respect him on three different levels of the floor, plus his ability to get to the foul line, negates the need for explosiveness and somewhat negates his average height. Another thing to remember, Trier has a somewhat loose handle at times but his dribble moves are superior to what Pierce had when he left Kansas. Trier also has renowned work ethic. I'm not going to say that Trier is going to be an NBA all star, but I'm not buying his inability to get a good shot off in the NBA and I dont doubt one bit that he will be a very valuable bench scorer in the NBA. Trier may not be explosive in a physical sense, but he is still an explosive scorer. Compare what he and Pierce were doing in their freshmen and sophomore seasons of college, and Trier has missed pretty much half of his college career due to the hand injury and PED and has still put up huge numbers.

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