2017 PAC12 Tournament

Longhorned · Post by **Longhorned** » Thu Mar 09, 2017 9:46 am

Alieberman wrote:I'm a little worried about this rado game tonight.

Colorado turns it off and on. Off for the first half last night, on for the second half. Off for the first half of the season, on for the second half of the season. And they most definitely turn it on for Arizona. When they turn it on, it shows in their rebounding, defense, aggressive attacking the paint, and it all carries into their perimeter shooting. I'm not sure how Arizona will rebound well enough if we're giving Dusan the lion's share of minutes at center. Pinder needs to be ready to guard Johnson, and Comanche needs to come to play. I'd love to see Lauri protecting the rim. Our guards need to attack, get to the line, and bother wright. Hopefully Colorado's expended effort last night gives us an advantage.

azcat49 · Post by **azcat49** » Thu Mar 09, 2017 9:50 am

Cats 7.5 favorites at the MGM book. -350 on the money line

Lofty · Post by **Lofty** » Thu Mar 09, 2017 10:02 am

Alieberman wrote:I'm a little worried about this rado game tonight.

You should be. I am.

EVCat · Post by **EVCat** » Thu Mar 09, 2017 10:07 am

The one thing this team has demonstrated, in all its lineups, is a refusal to play down to competition. Maybe for 5 or 10 minutes, but not over the course of the whole game. It's a Miller trait to begin with...not losing to lesser seeds in tournaments...and is one this team seems to have taken on wholy. Every game is concerning when you play a capable opponent, but I am not more worried about this game than I would be any 1st round tournament game.

What's left to prove is whether this team can put together back to back performances against equal or better teams. I think we can as much as anyone, but I also think this team has outperformed its overall ability all year and is realistically a S16 team with an E8 realistic ceiling and a FF contender with a couple of breaks.

Dave · Post by **Dave** » Thu Mar 09, 2017 10:20 am

Alieberman wrote:I'm a little worried about this rado game tonight.

Worried?

They only start 4 seniors and a junior and are warmed up and ready to go. I am expecting a very physical game that will most likely go down to the wire. We have been running on 2 cylinders for so long it is staring to become the norm. We might want to remember some of Lute's philosophies. He did pretty well in the big dance.

NYCat · Post by **NYCat** » Thu Mar 09, 2017 10:23 am

EVCat wrote:The one thing this team has demonstrated, in all its lineups, is a refusal to play down to competition. Maybe for 5 or 10 minutes, but not over the course of the whole game. It's a Miller trait to begin with...not losing to lesser seeds in tournaments...and is one this team seems to have taken on wholy. Every game is concerning when you play a capable opponent, but I am not more worried about this game than I would be any 1st round tournament game.

What's left to prove is whether this team can put together back to back performances against equal or better teams. I think we can as much as anyone, but I also think this team has outperformed its overall ability all year and is realistically a S16 team with an E8 realistic ceiling and a FF contender with a couple of breaks.

We lost to Wichita State last year

Spaceman Spiff · Post by **Spaceman Spiff** » Thu Mar 09, 2017 10:37 am

Dave wrote:
Alieberman wrote:I'm a little worried about this rado game tonight.
Worried? They only start 4 seniors and a junior and are warmed up and ready to go. I am expecting a very physical game that will most likely go down to the wire. We have been running on 2 cylinders for so long it is staring to become the norm. We might want to remember some of Lute's philosophies. He did pretty well in the big dance.

Really? Lute is great, but he had a mixed record in the NCAA tourney, and there were a significant number of early flameouts.

Colorado...well, this is postseason. There shouldn't be any games to take it easy now.

Longhorned · Post by **Longhorned** » Thu Mar 09, 2017 10:44 am

NYCat wrote:
EVCat wrote:The one thing this team has demonstrated, in all its lineups, is a refusal to play down to competition. Maybe for 5 or 10 minutes, but not over the course of the whole game. It's a Miller trait to begin with...not losing to lesser seeds in tournaments...and is one this team seems to have taken on wholy. Every game is concerning when you play a capable opponent, but I am not more worried about this game than I would be any 1st round tournament game.

What's left to prove is whether this team can put together back to back performances against equal or better teams. I think we can as much as anyone, but I also think this team has outperformed its overall ability all year and is realistically a S16 team with an E8 realistic ceiling and a FF contender with a couple of breaks.
We lost to Wichita State last year

I just don't think Wichita State was a lesser team by any measure.

NYCat · Post by **NYCat** » Thu Mar 09, 2017 11:10 am

Nobody does, especially defensively. They were actually a higher Kenpom team than Arizona. Unfortunately for us, they were seeded 11.

RiseAndFire · Post by **RiseAndFire** » Thu Mar 09, 2017 11:21 am

actually in the p12 tourney under Miller we've lost plenty as the higher seed, and have never beaten a higher seed ourselves the 4 years we weren't a 1 seed

2010 as a (4) to UCLA (5) in the quarters at staples
2011 as a (1) to UW (3) in the champ game at staples
2012 as a (4) to Colo (6) in the champ game at staples
2014 as a (1) to UCLA (2) in the champ game at MGM

MrMeow · Post by **MrMeow** » Thu Mar 09, 2017 11:22 am

NYCat wrote:
Bangkok Wildcat wrote:Crap, the first game I decide to watch WSU vs Rado and Bill Walton is announcing
Oh great, a 7 ft. clown to gum up what otherwise should be a good game. Hopefully no split screen.

EVCat · Post by **EVCat** » Thu Mar 09, 2017 11:28 am

NYCat wrote:
EVCat wrote:The one thing this team has demonstrated, in all its lineups, is a refusal to play down to competition. Maybe for 5 or 10 minutes, but not over the course of the whole game. It's a Miller trait to begin with...not losing to lesser seeds in tournaments...and is one this team seems to have taken on wholy. Every game is concerning when you play a capable opponent, but I am not more worried about this game than I would be any 1st round tournament game.

What's left to prove is whether this team can put together back to back performances against equal or better teams. I think we can as much as anyone, but I also think this team has outperformed its overall ability all year and is realistically a S16 team with an E8 realistic ceiling and a FF contender with a couple of breaks.
We lost to Wichita State last year

Yes, and?

Should I list Miller's entire tournament resume? Or stay focused on the exception that proves the rule?

EVCat · Post by **EVCat** » Thu Mar 09, 2017 11:32 am

Longhorned wrote:
I just don't think Wichita State was a lesser team by any measure.

This, too. They were unbelievably misseeded.

And we had, oh...I don't know...some issues that may have been a distraction to that team.

Wasn't the line close to even? That was the first "oh shit" moment...when Vegas posted the line and we were like - 1.5 vs a much lesser seed. Add they were built to torture our lack of PG play.

but, yeah...with the exception of that one rule-proving game, Miller tournament teams at Xavier and Arizona have lost to a lesser seed one time...as a #1 to a #2 (UA/Wisconsin 2014). So I think the comment "It's a Miller trait to begin with...not losing to lesser seeds in tournaments..." is very accurate.

Spaceman Spiff · Post by **Spaceman Spiff** » Thu Mar 09, 2017 11:33 am

RiseAndFire wrote:actually in the p12 tourney under Miller we've lost plenty as the higher seed, and have never beaten a higher seed ourselves the 4 years we weren't a 1 seed

2010 as a (4) to UCLA (5) in the quarters at staples
2011 as a (1) to UW (3) in the champ game at staples
2012 as a (4) to Colo (6) in the champ game at staples
2014 as a (1) to UCLA (2) in the champ game at MGM

You say we've never beaten a higher seed, but I'm pretty sure we've only faced a higher seed twice, Oregon last year and UCLA in 2013, both of which were last second close losses.

You need to stop hating on Miller. It's sad.

Luuuuuuuute · Post by **Luuuuuuuute** » Thu Mar 09, 2017 11:33 am

Do we need Oregon to lose today, in hopes that it will hurt their resume and open the door for us to leapfrog them in the selection committee's eyes?

Or would we rather Oregon and UCLA win today (and Oregon again tomorrow) so we could potentially play each of them, with wins over both staking our outright claim as no worse than the 2-seed in the West?

BEAR DOWN!

NYCat · Post by **NYCat** » Thu Mar 09, 2017 11:35 am

Who cares if Oregon loses, Arizona runs the conference tournament table that gets us #2 in the West. Don't want the #1 seed in the South. Oregon losing would help us get one less impressive win and thus keep us #2 out west. I want the easiest road possible at this point.

EVCat · Post by **EVCat** » Thu Mar 09, 2017 11:36 am

Spaceman Spiff wrote:
RiseAndFire wrote:actually in the p12 tourney under Miller we've lost plenty as the higher seed, and have never beaten a higher seed ourselves the 4 years we weren't a 1 seed

2010 as a (4) to UCLA (5) in the quarters at staples
2011 as a (1) to UW (3) in the champ game at staples
2012 as a (4) to Colo (6) in the champ game at staples
2014 as a (1) to UCLA (2) in the champ game at MGM
You say we've never beaten a higher seed, but I'm pretty sure we've only faced a higher seed twice, Oregon last year and UCLA in 2013, both of which were last second close losses.

You need to stop hating on Miller. It's sad.

And 2014...I am pretty sure only RiseandFire and Ed Rush count that game...

EVCat · Post by **EVCat** » Thu Mar 09, 2017 11:39 am

NYCat wrote:Who cares if Oregon loses, Arizona runs the conference tournament table that gets us #2 in the West. Don't want the #1 seed in the South. Oregon losing would help us get one less impressive win and thus keep us #2 out west. I want the easiest road possible at this point.

Why would #2 in the west be an easier road than #1 in the south?

The first two games are in the west regardless of the region. And a 1 v 4 in the S16 is much better than a 2 v 3 matchup. Our team is perfectly OK with travelling. The only downside would be if we caught a southern #2 seed in the E8...but when has LA/Anaheim helped us in the E8?

I would much rather be a 1 for a week in the South than a 2 in the west. Back in the day when it meant you were shipped for the whole regional, I agree. But in the protected pod era, the positives of a 1 seed are absolutely worth playing in another region.

NYCat · Post by **NYCat** » Thu Mar 09, 2017 11:58 am

EVCat wrote:
NYCat wrote:Who cares if Oregon loses, Arizona runs the conference tournament table that gets us #2 in the West. Don't want the #1 seed in the South. Oregon losing would help us get one less impressive win and thus keep us #2 out west. I want the easiest road possible at this point.
Why would #2 in the west be an easier road than #1 in the south?

The first two games are in the west regardless of the region. And a 1 v 4 in the S16 is much better than a 2 v 3 matchup. Our team is perfectly OK with travelling. The only downside would be if we caught a southern #2 seed in the E8...but when has LA/Anaheim helped us in the E8?

I would much rather be a 1 for a week in the South than a 2 in the west. Back in the day when it meant you were shipped for the whole regional, I agree. But in the protected pod era, the positives of a 1 seed are absolutely worth playing in another region.

It mostly comes down to the potential E8 game. #1 Gonzaga is easier than #2 UNC. UNC best players are 6'7/8+ (Justin Jackson, Pinson, Meeks, etc) + Joel Berry. Plus the Zags can always lose early.

Potential #4/#5 seed teams are far worse matchups however than the projected #2, #3 seeds like Kentucky, Duke, FSU, Butler etc. (Only bad 2 and 3 seeds matchups are Baylor, Louisville).

#4/#5 seeds SMU, West Virginia, Cincinnati, Florida, Purdue. Most of these are really good defensively, and some of these teams have a bunch of guys who are good that are 6'6-6'8+.

Oregon is similar to those teams, good defense, and their better guys are 6'7+, they're generally a bad matchup. Because we lost Smith, Ferguson, that's our weakness.

Spaceman Spiff · Post by **Spaceman Spiff** » Thu Mar 09, 2017 12:34 pm

EVCat wrote:
Spaceman Spiff wrote:
RiseAndFire wrote:actually in the p12 tourney under Miller we've lost plenty as the higher seed, and have never beaten a higher seed ourselves the 4 years we weren't a 1 seed

2010 as a (4) to UCLA (5) in the quarters at staples
2011 as a (1) to UW (3) in the champ game at staples
2012 as a (4) to Colo (6) in the champ game at staples
2014 as a (1) to UCLA (2) in the champ game at MGM
You say we've never beaten a higher seed, but I'm pretty sure we've only faced a higher seed twice, Oregon last year and UCLA in 2013, both of which were last second close losses.

You need to stop hating on Miller. It's sad.
And 2014...I am pretty sure only RiseandFire and Ed Rush count that game...

2014 is really the only year that I was disappointed in the result in the Pac tourney. 2011, UW had a good team with IT and we were good but never really a dominant team. 2012, making the finals after that year was something on its own. 2013, we lost about when I would have expected us to lose.

Longhorned · Post by **Longhorned** » Thu Mar 09, 2017 12:37 pm

Luuuuuuuute wrote:Do we need Oregon to lose today, in hopes that it will hurt their resume and open the door for us to leapfrog them in the selection committee's eyes?

Or would we rather Oregon and UCLA win today (and Oregon again tomorrow) so we could potentially play each of them, with wins over both staking our outright claim as no worse than the 2-seed in the West?

BEAR DOWN!

Depends. If Arizona loses in the tourney, it will solidify a 1 or 2 seed for the Ducks in the west. If Arizona beats Oregon or if Oregon loses earlier, the committee will disregard the conference tourney.

CalStateTempe · Post by **CalStateTempe** » Thu Mar 09, 2017 12:45 pm

I won't be surprised when UNC fails to make this years EE.

Meeks is a really really really dumb player. Costs them several points a game just having him on the court. but he's big.

Spaceman Spiff · Post by **Spaceman Spiff** » Thu Mar 09, 2017 12:52 pm

Longhorned wrote:
Luuuuuuuute wrote:Do we need Oregon to lose today, in hopes that it will hurt their resume and open the door for us to leapfrog them in the selection committee's eyes?

Or would we rather Oregon and UCLA win today (and Oregon again tomorrow) so we could potentially play each of them, with wins over both staking our outright claim as no worse than the 2-seed in the West?

BEAR DOWN!
Depends. If Arizona loses in the tourney, it will solidify a 1 or 2 seed for the Ducks in the west. If Arizona beats Oregon or if Oregon loses earlier, the committee will disregard the conference tourney.

To significantly help ourselves in seeding, we need both Oregon and UCLA to beat. We beat them both and we are a 2 lock. Beat UCLA and lose to Oregon and we are definitely a 3 and possibly a 2. Lose to UCLA and we're a 3 with potential to slip to 4.

I think we are the team in the Pac tourney with the most to gain/lose because we have something to prove against top teams.

Alieberman · Post by **Alieberman** » Thu Mar 09, 2017 2:07 pm

Go Sun Devils!

(I just threw up a little)

azgreg · Post by **azgreg** » Thu Mar 09, 2017 2:09 pm

Alieberman wrote:Go Sun Devils!

(I just threw up a little)

It's a tough one. I hate them both.

azgreg · Post by **azgreg** » Thu Mar 09, 2017 2:32 pm

Oregon pulling away now.

Jefe · Post by **Jefe** » Thu Mar 09, 2017 3:26 pm

Anyone see Muehlebach and KO after the game? KO said Oregon needs to go back to their rooms, get a good meal and some rest rather than heading over to Coyote Ugly. The other announcer said there isnt one in Vegas and Muehlebach says yes there is as KO was there all night and just showed up prior to the post game show

SCCats · Post by **SCCats** » Thu Mar 09, 2017 5:11 pm

Jefe wrote:Anyone see Muehlebach and KO after the game? KO said Oregon needs to go back to their rooms, get a good meal and some rest rather than heading over to Coyote Ugly. The other announcer said there isnt one in Vegas and Muehlebach says yes there is as KO was there all night and just showed up prior to the post game show

I think I generally heard this right:

On the pregame KO said when he woke up a couple hours ago (it was noon) and still had a hangover, he picked ASU to win this game. Now that he's sobered up he's picking Oregon.

After that was said, Muehlebach said quietly: That's the truth.

gumby · Post by **gumby** » Thu Mar 09, 2017 5:14 pm

Dave wrote:
Alieberman wrote:I'm a little worried about this rado game tonight.
Worried? They only start 4 seniors and a junior and are warmed up and ready to go. I am expecting a very physical game that will most likely go down to the wire. We have been running on 2 cylinders for so long it is staring to become the norm. We might want to remember some of Lute's philosophies. He did pretty well in the big dance.

Lute didn't take this tournament all that seriously. I'm of two minds. Go all the way and win it, or lose now and rest.

Chicat · Post by **Chicat** » Thu Mar 09, 2017 9:57 pm

USC getting shut out because they're allergic to good shots.

NYCat · Post by **NYCat** » Thu Mar 09, 2017 9:59 pm

UCLA is zoning, and USC is bewildered by the zone

az91 · Post by **az91** » Thu Mar 09, 2017 10:17 pm

I hope USC is left out of the tournament. They suck.

SCCats · Post by **SCCats** » Thu Mar 09, 2017 10:29 pm

at those back to back Ball 3s

UAEebs86 · Post by **UAEebs86** » Thu Mar 09, 2017 11:26 pm

2 point game, 4 min left

MrBug708 · Post by **MrBug708** » Thu Mar 09, 2017 11:49 pm

If we get the refs we've had the last half dozen game, we are going to get blown out tomorrow. I can't imagine Leaf's ankle is feeling too great right now.

ASUHATER! · Post by **ASUHATER!** » Fri Mar 10, 2017 12:01 am

MrBug708 wrote:If we get the refs we've had the last half dozen game, we are going to get blown out tomorrow. I can't imagine Leaf's ankle is feeling too great right now.

It's UCLA/Arizona. It's a given the refs will bone Arizona.

scumdevils86 · Post by **scumdevils86** » Fri Mar 10, 2017 12:03 am

MrBug708 wrote:If we get the refs we've had the last half dozen game, we are going to get blown out tomorrow. I can't imagine Leaf's ankle is feeling too great right now.

CalStateTempe · Post by **CalStateTempe** » Fri Mar 10, 2017 12:52 am

Time to ignore bug for the best 36 hours...

I'll never forget his passive aggressive posting during the "he touched the ball" game.

Bangkok Wildcat · Post by **Bangkok Wildcat** » Fri Mar 10, 2017 1:27 am

CalStateTempe wrote:Time to ignore bug for the best 36 hours...

I'll never forget his passive aggressive posting during the "he touched the ball" game.

But he DID touch that damn ball!!!!!!!!!!

Irish27 · Post by **Irish27** » Fri Mar 10, 2017 5:53 am

Having the UofA/UCLA game start at 9:30PM Tucson time is absurd. It definitely should be the first game at 7:00PM.

UAEebs86 · Post by **UAEebs86** » Fri Mar 10, 2017 6:42 am

Is it still just a trip to Cancun, or has the package been upgraded for the ref that gives Sean Miller the Code Red?

Spaceman Spiff · Post by **Spaceman Spiff** » Fri Mar 10, 2017 6:57 am

MrBug708 wrote:If we get the refs we've had the last half dozen game, we are going to get blown out tomorrow. I can't imagine Leaf's ankle is feeling too great right now.

One of your last half dozen games was at Arizona, and you shouldn't complain about that. Ball's 4th getting called on PJC alone was necessary for UCLA to win that.

Alieberman · Post by **Alieberman** » Fri Mar 10, 2017 7:05 am

UAEebs86 wrote:Is it still just a trip to Cancun, or has the package been upgraded for the ref that gives Sean Miller the Code Red?

My sources tell me Larry Scott has not yet decided if he wants Sean to lose in the semis or the finals.

Stay Tuned.

CalStateTempe · Post by **CalStateTempe** » Fri Mar 10, 2017 7:06 am

Ucla gonna get the fucking star treatment all night.

Gotta protect the "brand", you know?

Mob boss know how well ucla plays in the pacific rim.

Ugh, I'm sick for tonight's game:

Chicat · Post by **Chicat** » Fri Mar 10, 2017 7:32 am

MrBug708 wrote:If we get the refs we've had the last half dozen game, we are going to get blown out tomorrow. I can't imagine Leaf's ankle is feeling too great right now.

The last six games where your guys are 6-0, winning by an average margin of 15 points and where opponents have shot a whopping 2.5 more free throws than UCLA per game?

I'm sorry, you were preemptively blaming the upcoming Bruins performance on the refs and I interrupted. That was rude of me. By all means, please continue...

MrBug708 · Post by **MrBug708** » Fri Mar 10, 2017 8:28 am

Being 6-0 despite the inept refs is impressive in and of itself. I expect the trend to continue and I don't see ucla overcoming it on the second night of a back to back.

Alieberman · Post by **Alieberman** » Fri Mar 10, 2017 8:45 am

MrBug708 wrote:Being 6-0 despite the inept refs is impressive in and of itself. I expect the trend to continue and I don't see ucla overcoming it on the second night of a back to back.

If the refs have their way, the winner of the AZ / UCLA game will be Duke.

Chicat · Post by **Chicat** » Fri Mar 10, 2017 8:47 am

Vegas has you guys favored by 3. Someone should clue them in to this ref situation.

CalStateTempe · Post by **CalStateTempe** » Fri Mar 10, 2017 8:56 am

For those there, how was the crowd/experience last night compared to MGM?

azgreg · Post by **azgreg** » Fri Mar 10, 2017 9:04 am

I'm going to need a nap before tip off.

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