Allonzo Trier

EVCat · Post by **EVCat** » Thu Mar 09, 2017 2:19 pm

It is also a real gift to be able to finish with contact. For all of Stanley's ability to get to the rim, he could not finish, and that is likely holding him back as much as his coaching situation in Detroit. Some players have that body control that is not so easily explainable, but just seem to be able to absorb contact and finish, and that is something Trier has shown in his time here. You can make up for lack of size or explosiveness if you can get your shot up over taller players who are on your hip.

TucsonClip · Post by **TucsonClip** » Thu Mar 09, 2017 5:32 pm

People dont think Trier will be able to create his own shot in the NBA with even more spacing?

Puerco · Post by **Puerco** » Fri Mar 10, 2017 1:38 am

I see Trier struggling to finish at the rim against the longer, quicker defenders he'll see in the league, so yes, Clip, I do doubt his ability to score reliably at the next level. If he develops a good three point shot from NBA distance, that'll help. He's got a respectable jump shot in college, but I don't see it being anything spectacular.

Deuce, I was sputtering at your comparison to Pierce until you acknowledged my concerns halfway through your post. It's a hell of a lot easier to be crafty if you're a threat inside and out. Pierce could get an isolation any time a smaller or slower player was guarding him. Zo is missing the post up element, and he's not that fast for a smaller guy, so I don't think that's an apt comparison.

Anyway, I'm sure Zo will get his chance. He's worked too hard for too long not to, and I hope he succeeds at the highest level.

Alieberman · Post by **Alieberman** » Fri Mar 10, 2017 6:45 am

Trier has been playing great basketball this last month

rgdeuce · Post by **rgdeuce** » Fri Mar 10, 2017 9:10 am

Puerco wrote:I see Trier struggling to finish at the rim against the longer, quicker defenders he'll see in the league, so yes, Clip, I do doubt his ability to score reliably at the next level. If he develops a good three point shot from NBA distance, that'll help. He's got a respectable jump shot in college, but I don't see it being anything spectacular.

Deuce, I was sputtering at your comparison to Pierce until you acknowledged my concerns halfway through your post. It's a hell of a lot easier to be crafty if you're a threat inside and out. Pierce could get an isolation any time a smaller or slower player was guarding him. Zo is missing the post up element, and he's not that fast for a smaller guy, so I don't think that's an apt comparison.

Anyway, I'm sure Zo will get his chance. He's worked too hard for too long not to, and I hope he succeeds at the highest level.

First off, lets be real here. Paul Pierce could isolate and score/get to the foul line on any player in the NBA in his time.

Pierce developed his low- and mid-post games over time, but Shaq nicknamed him "The (motherf-cking) Truth" well before those were fully developed.

No, Zo is not the same player as Pierce and that wasn't my point. My point was, a complete offensive game mitigates physical concerns and the ability to get a shot off, and both of those guys have/had that in common. Pierce has obvious advantages over Trier, but that is not to say that Zo doesn't have advantages over him. Zo also has excellent body control and knows how to use his body, like Pierce, and there is nothing that says he can not add heft/strength to his frame to take even more advantage of that. And yes, they athletes protecting the hoop are bigger, stronger, faster and smarter than the ones in college, but that just assumes that Zo is going up for a layup or dunk and will get blocked or contested and ignores he can 1)still draw a foul, 2) flip a 4-foot pass to a wide open teammate, or 3) pull up and shoot. Off the bench, Trier isn't going to have to deal with the same type of NBA player that he would as a starter. Although possible down the road, he likely wont even be scoring option #1 when the bench rotation is in. But he will be a guy who can knock down an open shot when it comes, and he will be a guy that can still get a good look a lot of the time on his own if needed.

97cats · Post by **97cats** » Fri Mar 10, 2017 11:03 am

Alieberman wrote:Trier has been playing great basketball this last month

LAST FIVE:

34.8mpg, 22.4ppg, 57.3%fg, 48%3pt, 82%ft, 4.2rb, 2.2a

best five game stretch for Trier at Arizona

EVCat · Post by **EVCat** » Fri Mar 10, 2017 11:07 am

Plus, Zo just became a better player in my eyes for finally corralling that faux hawk and getting a proper hair cut.

Oh, and he is killing it on the court. That too...

CalStateTempe · Post by **CalStateTempe** » Fri Mar 10, 2017 11:43 am

Love all of this.

This is the trier I've been waiting for. Love love love

TucsonClip · Post by **TucsonClip** » Fri Mar 10, 2017 11:56 am

Puerco wrote:I see Trier struggling to finish at the rim against the longer, quicker defenders he'll see in the league, so yes, Clip, I do doubt his ability to score reliably at the next level. If he develops a good three point shot from NBA distance, that'll help. He's got a respectable jump shot in college, but I don't see it being anything spectacular.

Dont get me wrong, I have those same questions. However, I think they are a bit over blown. The guy I worried about finishing at the rim in the NBA was Stanley. He took 28.7% of his shots at the rim as a freshman and finished only 52.7%. He was below average as a rookie (51.8%), but up to a decent 58.8% this season.

Meanwhile, Trier took 29.8% of his shots as a freshman at the rim, converting 73.1%, which was higher than Dusan and just behind Ryan Anderson. This season, Trier is taking 30.4% of his shots at the rim and finishing 71.1%, which is just behind Lauri and Dusan.

Point being, he has proven he can finish at the rim in college. Obviously, you can adjust those percentages down in the NBA a bit, but its not a huge concern, as hes proven he can create his own shot and finish pretty well.

EVCat · Post by **EVCat** » Fri Mar 10, 2017 12:18 pm

TucsonClip wrote:which was higher than Dusan and just behind Ryan Anderson.

Totally off topic, but it just seems weird to read "Ryan Anderson."

It's like last year's team never existed in my mind. Nothing about that team sticks as something I want to remember, and was so full of disparate pieces crammed together to caulk the seam that was split by one-and-two-and-dones and transfers.

I don't think I will ever think back to 2015-16 when running through the team film in my brain. Anderson? Tollefson? I was really ready for the Gabe York era to be over. I miss Zeus but I associate him with the 2014 and 2015 team more.

I follow even the most obscure of Cats and their careers after Arizona. But nothing about last year's group beyond Zeus really resonates.

Spaceman Spiff · Post by **Spaceman Spiff** » Fri Mar 10, 2017 12:29 pm

EVCat wrote:
TucsonClip wrote:which was higher than Dusan and just behind Ryan Anderson.
Totally off topic, but it just seems weird to read "Ryan Anderson."

It's like last year's team never existed in my mind. Nothing about that team sticks as something I want to remember, and was so full of disparate pieces crammed together to caulk the seam that was split by one-and-two-and-dones and transfers.

I don't think I will ever think back to 2015-16 when running through the team film in my brain. Anderson? Tollefson? I was really ready for the Gabe York era to be over. I miss Zeus but I associate him with the 2014 and 2015 team more.

I follow even the most obscure of Cats and their careers after Arizona. But nothing about last year's group beyond Zeus really resonates.

Last year's team had no identity. Everything was middling. Offense was ok but not great. Defense was ok but not great. Results wise, we looked ok but never great. Then so much missed time due to injury and illness. Add in the one year guys and it was just not impactful.

Zeus and Gabe, I'll remember those guys. Dusan, Trier, Kadeem and PJC I will associate with this year more. Other than the 2010 team, it's the least memorable Miller team. 2012 was memorable in the bad way, but last year was just fairly anonymous.

TucsonClip · Post by **TucsonClip** » Fri Mar 10, 2017 2:33 pm

EVCat wrote:
TucsonClip wrote:which was higher than Dusan and just behind Ryan Anderson.
Totally off topic, but it just seems weird to read "Ryan Anderson."

It's like last year's team never existed in my mind. Nothing about that team sticks as something I want to remember, and was so full of disparate pieces crammed together to caulk the seam that was split by one-and-two-and-dones and transfers.

I don't think I will ever think back to 2015-16 when running through the team film in my brain. Anderson? Tollefson? I was really ready for the Gabe York era to be over. I miss Zeus but I associate him with the 2014 and 2015 team more.

I follow even the most obscure of Cats and their careers after Arizona. But nothing about last year's group beyond Zeus really resonates.

I erased that team from my memory.

whatisee · Post by **whatisee** » Sat Mar 11, 2017 12:43 am

I'll say it again. Alonzo is inside Lonzo's head. Great job on shutting him down tonight

Bangkok Wildcat · Post by **Bangkok Wildcat** » Sat Mar 11, 2017 11:24 pm

Playing like a CHAMPION!!!!!!!

84Cat · Post by **84Cat** » Sat Mar 11, 2017 11:29 pm

MOP of the PAC12 tourney

Bangkok Wildcat · Post by **Bangkok Wildcat** » Sat Mar 11, 2017 11:35 pm

84Cat wrote:MOP of the PAC12 tourney

He got screwed with the PED stuff and has something to prove....and he IS doing it! Without his FTs at the end, we probably lose due to our inexplicable missed FTs by Lauri and PJC.

rgdeuce · Post by **rgdeuce** » Sat Mar 11, 2017 11:35 pm

Remember when people were wondering if we were better off without Trier? This was why the answer was a resounding no

Put the team on his back despite incredible defense by Oregon. And finished the game with the freebies others couldnt hit.

catgrad97 · Post by **catgrad97** » Sat Mar 11, 2017 11:37 pm

Earned it just for those last four FTs. Ice.

Bangkok Wildcat · Post by **Bangkok Wildcat** » Sat Mar 11, 2017 11:37 pm

rgdeuce wrote:Remember when people were wondering if we were better off without Trier? This was why the answer was a resounding no Put the team on his back despite incredible defense by Oregon. And finished the game with the freebies others couldnt hit.

Good call rg.....seems to have only affected Kobi....but Kobi seems like he's cool. Anyways, do we need to put Kobi on a milk carton?

84Cat · Post by **84Cat** » Sat Mar 11, 2017 11:39 pm

rgdeuce wrote:Remember when people were wondering if we were better off without Trier? This was why the answer was a resounding no Put the team on his back despite incredible defense by Oregon. And finished the game with the freebies others couldnt hit.

I was thinking this earlier today. Pretty silly now

Merkin · Post by **Merkin** » Sat Mar 11, 2017 11:40 pm

His post game interview was outstanding.

and this

84Cat · Post by **84Cat** » Sat Mar 11, 2017 11:44 pm

Merkin wrote:His post game interview was outstanding.

and this

Yes, thought the same thing. Zo had no ego and said it was a team award

Chicat · Post by **Chicat** » Sat Mar 11, 2017 11:57 pm

Bangkok Wildcat · Post by **Bangkok Wildcat** » Sun Mar 12, 2017 12:11 am

Man, I hope he comes back next year.....dare to dream

rgdeuce · Post by **rgdeuce** » Sun Mar 12, 2017 12:16 am

Zero chance now lol

catgrad97 · Post by **catgrad97** » Sun Mar 12, 2017 12:21 am

Brian Bowen, come on down?!?!

CalStateTempe · Post by **CalStateTempe** » Sun Mar 12, 2017 12:33 am

PennZona20 · Post by **PennZona20** » Sun Mar 12, 2017 10:50 am

I think Zo is going to be very calculated when it comes to the draft. I think at the end of the day it'll be about his feedback and where he goes. I think if he can get a first round guarantee, he will go.

Otherwise he will stay. Now granted the way he's balling out might be the reason he gets that guarantee, but he's a Josh hart kid where his stock has a ceiling. These are the kids that win titles.

The fultz, and jj, and Gordon's, and Aytons of the world are great. But the josh harts, Ryan archidiancao, deandre liggins, those are the the lifeblood of title teams.

Trier may still be a 3 year player here, no matter what happens in Dance.

rgdeuce · Post by **rgdeuce** » Sun Mar 12, 2017 11:05 am

Trier has some extra force driving him right now. Is it the draft, is it winning, or is it both? At this point, I dont care which it is, but I suspect its both.

Bangkok Wildcat · Post by **Bangkok Wildcat** » Sun Mar 12, 2017 8:33 pm

Watched the game again on P12 AZ just now and really noticed how Zo uses his left arm a lot to space himself from his defender and he got at least one foul called for this...looked like a BS call but hope he doesn't get this called in the tourney.

Thoughts? He's the only one I really noticed that does this...or does this in a very noticeable way. Is this legal?

Puerco · Post by **Puerco** » Mon Mar 13, 2017 5:04 am

That was a total BS call, imo.

Deuce, sorry I wasn't coming from the perspective of Trier creating his own shot against bench players. Was aiming a little higher! If Trier can improve and extend his range a couple of feet, he'll be in great shape.

Clip, I was going to use Stanley as an example. Didn't realize his UA stats bear out what my eye test was telling me. Trier is a far better finisher, agreed.

HiCat · Post by **HiCat** » Mon Mar 13, 2017 5:45 am

Yep, total bs call, too many of them. Cats win by 10-12 but for bad calls.

But then, Wildcats win it..so...let the good times roll!

EastCoastCat · Post by **EastCoastCat** » Mon Mar 13, 2017 6:19 am

It seemed every Oregon shot at the rim was an automatic and 1.

It will be nice to get away from the inconsistent Pac-12 officiating in the tourney.

Dosia · Post by **Dosia** » Mon Mar 13, 2017 6:32 am

Was a little rocky re-integrating him, but the offense is really gelling right now. Hopefully the best is yet to come.

Longhorned · Post by **Longhorned** » Mon Mar 13, 2017 6:40 am

EastCoastCat wrote:It seemed every Oregon shot at the rim was an automatic and 1.

It will be nice to get away from the inconsistent Pac-12 officiating in the tourney.

Would be interesting to know which ref was calling those "and one" fouls on dunks. I'd be surprised if it was more than one official, because that's a really idiosyncratic call. I hadn't seen that all season long. It's a foul if the defender isn't straight up on contact. But on dunks in traffic, there's more overall body contact between the shooter and challenging defenders. To block a dunk at the rim, the defenders also rotate their wrists from "the upright and locked position", but the offensive player who overpowers his defenders and slams it just turns around and runs back to defend with a not-so-subtle monster face. Refs don't blow a whistle and put them on the stripe.

prh · Post by **prh** » Mon Mar 13, 2017 6:59 am

Longhorned wrote:
EastCoastCat wrote:It seemed every Oregon shot at the rim was an automatic and 1.

It will be nice to get away from the inconsistent Pac-12 officiating in the tourney.
Would be interesting to know which ref was calling those "and one" fouls on dunks. I'd be surprised if it was more than one official, because that's a really idiosyncratic call. I hadn't seen that all season long. It's a foul if the defender isn't straight up on contact. But on dunks in traffic, there's more overall body contact between the shooter and challenging defenders. To block a dunk at the rim, the defenders also rotate their wrists from "the upright and locked position", but the offensive player who overpowers his defenders and slams it just turns around and runs back to defend with a not-so-subtle monster face. Refs don't blow a whistle and put them on the stripe.

It was the same official who called nearly every one of the bs calls. Started from the very beginning. Lots of people inside the building noticed it too.

HiCat · Post by **HiCat** » Mon Mar 13, 2017 8:36 am

Allonzo's draft position improved after the tourney. Maybe under 20?

pc in NM · Post by **pc in NM** » Mon Mar 13, 2017 9:31 am

HiCat wrote:Allonzo's draft position improved after the tourney. Maybe under 20?

Seriously? Who did he pass, and why??

Merkin · Post by **Merkin** » Mon Mar 13, 2017 9:37 am

Not on DX, updated yesterday. Still out of the draft.

http://www.draftexpress.com/nba-mock-draft/2017/" target="_blank

HiCat · Post by **HiCat** » Mon Mar 13, 2017 9:43 am

Just my initial impression based on his Pac 12 tournament performance. Seems to be playing really well now. However, I don't know enough about mock draft prospects to say where he should be.

whatisee · Post by **whatisee** » Mon Mar 13, 2017 11:08 am

Merkin wrote:Not on DX, updated yesterday. Still out of the draft.

http://www.draftexpress.com/nba-mock-draft/2017/" target="_blank

Kobi is #48....Hope he stays for next year. Like Miller said he's sacrificed the most since Alonzo returned. It would be nice to see him play 20 minutes a game

rgdeuce · Post by **rgdeuce** » Mon Mar 13, 2017 11:21 am

Bangkok Wildcat wrote:Watched the game again on P12 AZ just now and really noticed how Zo uses his left arm a lot to space himself from his defender and he got at least one foul called for this...looked like a BS call but hope he doesn't get this called in the tourney.

Thoughts? He's the only one I really noticed that does this...or does this in a very noticeable way. Is this legal?

Technically, it was a foul. You can't use your off hand/forearm/elbow to ward off, or push or hold a defender to create space, slap/knock away a reaching hand, etc. Basically, anything that impedes a defender from playing normal defense. As soon as you start extending your off arm/elbow/forearm/hand, you are basically asking for it. The problem is, we see blatant chicken winging all the time that doesn't get called, let alone the subtle pushoffs/warding that dont get called, even if the defender upsells the contact. In terms of that game itself, the beef is that Dorsey, Ennis, and Brooks were doing it all game and they were letting it go. It has to go both ways and it was blatantly obvious that what applied to us there, and on defense, loose balls, and in rebounding situations, Oregon was not held to the same standard we were. This is the case in a lot of our games in any given season, one beef, and another is the inconsistency within the game itself (ie: letting teams play in the first, being nazis in the 2nd).

On an individual level, dont expect this to be Trier's last whistle for that. He isn't a major violator of the subtle pushing off that most refs let slide, but he has a habit of extending that off arm when there is still plenty of space between he in the defender, sort of like a stiff arm in football (except he obviously isnt fully extending), as a means to keep separation/ward off the defender. He did this several more times in the tournament and I suspect a few were not called only for the fact that there was no actual contact.

Spaceman Spiff · Post by **Spaceman Spiff** » Mon Mar 13, 2017 11:32 am

rgdeuce wrote:
Bangkok Wildcat wrote:Watched the game again on P12 AZ just now and really noticed how Zo uses his left arm a lot to space himself from his defender and he got at least one foul called for this...looked like a BS call but hope he doesn't get this called in the tourney.

Thoughts? He's the only one I really noticed that does this...or does this in a very noticeable way. Is this legal?
Technically, it was a foul. You can't use your off hand/forearm/elbow to ward off, or push or hold a defender to create space, slap/knock away a reaching hand, etc. Basically, anything that impedes a defender from playing normal defense. As soon as you start extending your off arm/elbow/forearm/hand, you are basically asking for it. The problem is, we see blatant chicken winging all the time that doesn't get called, let alone the subtle pushoffs/warding that dont get called, even if the defender upsells the contact. In terms of that game itself, the beef is that Dorsey, Ennis, and Brooks were doing it all game and they were letting it go. It has to go both ways and it was blatantly obvious that what applied to us there, and on defense, loose balls, and in rebounding situations, Oregon was not held to the same standard we were. This is the case in a lot of our games in any given season, one beef, and another is the inconsistency within the game itself (ie: letting teams play in the first, being nazis in the 2nd).

On an individual level, dont expect this to be Trier's last whistle for that. He isn't a major violator of the subtle pushing off that most refs let slide, but he has a habit of extending that off arm when there is still plenty of space between he in the defender, sort of like a stiff arm in football (except he obviously isnt fully extending), as a means to keep separation/ward off the defender. He did this several more times in the tournament and I suspect a few were not called only for the fact that there was no actual contact.

That's one of Zo's go to moves for creating space. He is good at initiating contact to freeze a defender long enough to get the shot off. The key is a subtle enough contact that it doesn't draw a whistle.

It depends on the reffing. Zo plays in a way that forces a lot of calls. Hopefully they go our way.

84Cat · Post by **84Cat** » Mon Mar 13, 2017 1:15 pm

Funny thing is Zo extended his arm 1/4 as much as Ball and with Lonzo there was no call. Also, watch Harden for a few minutes, his arm is extended the whole time. He has perfected how to extend the arm without getting called for it.

Longhorned · Post by **Longhorned** » Mon Mar 13, 2017 1:27 pm

Nick Johnson at the end of the 2014 Elite Eight game. You don't call that ever, especially on a final possession, when you don't call for contact on the defense or the offense. Except, of course, when our trip to the Final Four is on the line.

rgdeuce · Post by **rgdeuce** » Mon Mar 13, 2017 3:21 pm

84Cat wrote:Funny thing is Zo extended his arm 1/4 as much as Ball and with Lonzo there was no call. Also, watch Harden for a few minutes, his arm is extended the whole time. He has perfected how to extend the arm without getting called for it.

Stars get away with it, College or NBA, unless it is blatantly obvious or the ref wants to be a hipster about things. Jordan, Kobe, Harden, Lebron, you can go down the list. They also get away with 4 and 5 steps and go to the foul line if their defender breathes on him. At the end of the day, I dont care if Lonzo or Brooks do it, I just expect it to be the same on the other end for our star.

Longhorned wrote:Nick Johnson at the end of the 2014 Elite Eight game. You don't call that ever, especially on a final possession, when you don't call for contact on the defense or the offense. Except, of course, when our trip to the Final Four is on the line.

The life of an Arizona fan. Wisconsin boy was a half-step too late and his contact impeded NJ's drive. NJ (smartly) leans in to make the contact more dramatic so he could get the call, or at worst take away the slight advantage the dude stole from him by committing the foul. I wouldn't have been mad at a no call in that situation, but if you blow your whistle there, it better be for a blocking foul. I want to say it was a bang-bang situation and a tough call to make, but it really wasn't. At least two refs had a good view to see the angle the defender was moving. Plus, you know, when is that call ever made with the final 4, or an NBA championship on the line? We have bad luck with calls in those situations, and weak ass calls to take key players out of big tournament games. It seems that that 2011 run (early) was the only time we got big, questionable calls with the game on the line (Possible 5 second call on an inbound and the Derrick Williams 3-point thrown in). Of course, we go to the final four that year had they not taken D Will out of the first half w some crap calls.

Bangkok Wildcat · Post by **Bangkok Wildcat** » Mon Mar 13, 2017 4:01 pm

Spaceman Spiff wrote:
rgdeuce wrote:
Bangkok Wildcat wrote:Watched the game again on P12 AZ just now and really noticed how Zo uses his left arm a lot to space himself from his defender and he got at least one foul called for this...looked like a BS call but hope he doesn't get this called in the tourney.

Thoughts? He's the only one I really noticed that does this...or does this in a very noticeable way. Is this legal?
Technically, it was a foul. You can't use your off hand/forearm/elbow to ward off, or push or hold a defender to create space, slap/knock away a reaching hand, etc. Basically, anything that impedes a defender from playing normal defense. As soon as you start extending your off arm/elbow/forearm/hand, you are basically asking for it. The problem is, we see blatant chicken winging all the time that doesn't get called, let alone the subtle pushoffs/warding that dont get called, even if the defender upsells the contact. In terms of that game itself, the beef is that Dorsey, Ennis, and Brooks were doing it all game and they were letting it go. It has to go both ways and it was blatantly obvious that what applied to us there, and on defense, loose balls, and in rebounding situations, Oregon was not held to the same standard we were. This is the case in a lot of our games in any given season, one beef, and another is the inconsistency within the game itself (ie: letting teams play in the first, being nazis in the 2nd).

On an individual level, dont expect this to be Trier's last whistle for that. He isn't a major violator of the subtle pushing off that most refs let slide, but he has a habit of extending that off arm when there is still plenty of space between he in the defender, sort of like a stiff arm in football (except he obviously isnt fully extending), as a means to keep separation/ward off the defender. He did this several more times in the tournament and I suspect a few were not called only for the fact that there was no actual contact.
That's one of Zo's go to moves for creating space. He is good at initiating contact to freeze a defender long enough to get the shot off. The key is a subtle enough contact that it doesn't draw a whistle.

It depends on the reffing. Zo plays in a way that forces a lot of calls. Hopefully they go our way.

Thanks rgdeuce and Spaceman!

HiCat · Post by **HiCat** » Wed Mar 15, 2017 7:44 am

NBA Mock Draft Entering the NCAA Tournament
Jonathan Wasserman
NBA Lead Writer March 15, 2017

23. Orlando Magic (via Clippers): Allonzo Trier (Arizona, SG, Sophomore)

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2697 ... tournament" target="_blank

Mock Draft Round 1
Howard Megdal
Updated: 3/1/17
12 Allonzo Trier
SG | Arizona

http://www.cbssports.com/nba/draft/mock-draft" target="_blank

Jefe · Post by **Jefe** » Wed Mar 15, 2017 12:21 pm

Updated: http://www.nbadraft.net/2017mock_draft" target="_blank

Markannen 8th
Trier 31st

Spaceman Spiff · Post by **Spaceman Spiff** » Fri Mar 17, 2017 7:57 am

I hope Allonzo is better vs St. Mary's. Last night was not one of his better games.

Login • Register