Sean Miller

[Chicat]

Did anyone expect Altman at oregon, or Few at gonzaga, to beat Miller at Arizona to a FF?

I thought Few might, but not at Gonzaga.

Few and Altman collectively have over 15 more years of head coaching experience than CSM. That's a lot of opportunities to make a FF.

[pc in NM]

Did anyone expect Altman at oregon, or Few at gonzaga, to beat Miller at Arizona to a FF?

I thought Few might, but not at Gonzaga.

Few and Altman collectively have over 15 more years of head coaching experience than CSM. That's a lot of opportunities to make a FF.

Miller is 48 YO

Lute was 49 YO when AZ hired him

I recommend this commentary by Hansen (Yes, good ole' Greg!!) this morning http://tucson.com/hansen-s-sunday-noteb ... a5b97.html

[UAEebs86]

Did anyone expect Altman at oregon, or Few at gonzaga, to beat Miller at Arizona to a FF?

I thought Few might, but not at Gonzaga.

Few and Altman collectively have over 15 more years of head coaching experience than CSM. That's a lot of opportunities to make a FF.

Miller is 48 YO

Lute was 49 YO when AZ hired him

Lute already had one Final Four under his belt when he got here.

[Merkin]

Did anyone expect Altman at oregon, or Few at gonzaga, to beat Miller at Arizona to a FF?

I thought Few might, but not at Gonzaga.

Few and Altman collectively have over 15 more years of head coaching experience than CSM. That's a lot of opportunities to make a FF.

Miller is 48 YO

Lute was 49 YO when AZ hired him

I recommend this commentary by Hansen (Yes, good ole' Greg!!) this morning http://tucson.com/hansen-s-sunday-noteb ... a5b97.html

I seem to recall Greg being first in line criticizing Olson.

[Chicat]

Did anyone expect Altman at oregon, or Few at gonzaga, to beat Miller at Arizona to a FF?

I thought Few might, but not at Gonzaga.

Few and Altman collectively have over 15 more years of head coaching experience than CSM. That's a lot of opportunities to make a FF.

Miller is 48 YO

Lute was 49 YO when AZ hired him

Lute already had one Final Four under his belt when he got here.

Got there as a 5-seed after finishing 4th in the Big10. The year before when Iowa finished first in the conference they lost in the first round.

In other words, the tourney is largely a crapshoot. What Sean Miller has done at Arizona is pretty spectacular.

[pc in NM]

Did anyone expect Altman at oregon, or Few at gonzaga, to beat Miller at Arizona to a FF?

I thought Few might, but not at Gonzaga.

Few and Altman collectively have over 15 more years of head coaching experience than CSM. That's a lot of opportunities to make a FF.

Miller is 48 YO

Lute was 49 YO when AZ hired him

I recommend this commentary by Hansen (Yes, good ole' Greg!!) this morning http://tucson.com/hansen-s-sunday-noteb ... a5b97.html

I seem to recall Greg being first in line criticizing Olson.

Selective memory.

Lute had his flaws, especially late in his career. Hansen also has flaws, d'uh!! However, a local columnist should not be merely a cheerleader.... While I don't always agree with Hansen, I respect him, and really value his "memory" of, and respect for, all local sport and athletes, not just the biggies....

[PieceOfMeat]

Did anyone expect Altman at oregon, or Few at gonzaga, to beat Miller at Arizona to a FF?

I thought Few might, but not at Gonzaga.

Few and Altman collectively have over 15 more years of head coaching experience than CSM. That's a lot of opportunities to make a FF.

I also thought Few would have left by now, and maybe have achieved it at another school, but that's why I asked the question the way that I did. Him at gonzaga doing it.

Also, the collective experience they possess really doesnt matter to my question.

I'm specifically wondering, if one were to try and recall what they thought 8(or even 6) years ago, if anyone would have had Few(at zaga) or altman (at oregon, though it was only 6 years ago he started there) beating Miller at arizona to a FF.

I don't think i would have predicted either, or both, beating Miller there.

[PieceOfMeat]

Did anyone expect Altman at oregon, or Few at gonzaga, to beat Miller at Arizona to a FF?

I thought Few might, but not at Gonzaga.

Few and Altman collectively have over 15 more years of head coaching experience than CSM. That's a lot of opportunities to make a FF.

Miller is 48 YO

Lute was 49 YO when AZ hired him

None of which is pertinent to my question. You seem to be confused as to what I'm asking. Specifically, you seem to be confused and think I'm pondering on what age a coach should reach a FF by. I'm not though.

I'm specifically wondering if anyone had either of those 2 other coaches, at the schools their at, reaching a FF before Miller did at Arizona.

Also, I wont click on Hansen's garbage. Sorry if he's improved or whatever, but I refuse to give him a single click on his counter.

[PieceOfMeat]

Did anyone expect Altman at oregon, or Few at gonzaga, to beat Miller at Arizona to a FF?

I thought Few might, but not at Gonzaga.

Few and Altman collectively have over 15 more years of head coaching experience than CSM. That's a lot of opportunities to make a FF.

Miller is 48 YO

Lute was 49 YO when AZ hired him

Lute already had one Final Four under his belt when he got here.

That he did.

[PieceOfMeat]

Did anyone expect Altman at oregon, or Few at gonzaga, to beat Miller at Arizona to a FF?

I thought Few might, but not at Gonzaga.

Few and Altman collectively have over 15 more years of head coaching experience than CSM. That's a lot of opportunities to make a FF.

Miller is 48 YO

Lute was 49 YO when AZ hired him

I recommend this commentary by Hansen (Yes, good ole' Greg!!) this morning http://tucson.com/hansen-s-sunday-noteb ... a5b97.html

I seem to recall Greg being first in line criticizing Olson.

If not first, then elbowing his way through the line to get to first.

[ASUHATER!]

At this point I'd count on every program in the country from Lipscomb on up to Kentucky getting to a final 4 before I ever see one as a fan.

[az91]

At this point I'd count on every program in the country from Lipscomb on up to Kentucky getting to a final 4 before I ever see one as a fan.

I think Miller either needs to improve his coaching on offense, bring in an assistant that can coach offense, or put together a team with so much talent not even his poor coaching on offense can prevent the team from advancing.

[CalStateTempe]

At this point I'd count on every program in the country from Lipscomb on up to Kentucky getting to a final 4 before I ever see one as a fan.

Um no. And you thought my recruiting take was a poor hot take.

[az91]

The tournament sure is cruel. Two weeks ago, everyone was praising Miller for his coaching in the face of great adversity. He even won the PAC-12 award for a job well done. Flash forward to today and most of the fan base thinks his coaching sucks.

[CatMG]

Seems like only yesterday the concern was Miller will eventually leave for N.C. So no longer a concern?

[NYCat]

Seems like only yesterday the concern was Miller will eventually leave for N.C. So no longer a concern?

UNC is going to go with someone from the UNC family.

[azcat49]

The loss to Xavier shouldn't have happened. It was early similar to the late collapse (without the parade to the FT line) to Butler. Of course this one stings 10x that loss.

For me, I can't tell if Miller took a team that should have been 27-10 instead of 32-5. The injuries, the Zo issue, mixing in new players, limited depth early on, chemistry issues late, lack of an elite floor leader.

Games like this seem to happen in the tournament. For the most part, Miller has avoided this fate. I am incredibly disappointed but I just am not ready to make Miller the scapegoat. Shit happens

[NYCat]

The loss to Xavier shouldn't have happened. It was early similar to the late collapse (without the parade to the FT line) to Butler. Of course this one stings 10x that loss.

For me, I can't tell if Miller took a team that should have been 27-10 instead of 32-5. The injuries, the Zo issue, mixing in new players, limited depth early on, chemistry issues late, lack of an elite floor leader.

Games like this seem to happen in the tournament. For the most part, Miller has avoided this fate. I am incredibly disappointed but I just am not ready to make Miller the scapegoat. Shit happens

I think he overachieved with the team. The best players on this team were freshman and a sophomore. And only 1 one and done talent unlike the countless UK teams. The sophomore missed most of the season.

Allen really shouldn't be starting at the point, Dusan is soft and is terrible on defense -why he never gets benched like Kobi I'll never know. PJC is PJC, not a F4 caliber Guard. Decent backup.

Weak weak weak perimeter defense (especially when Allen isnt in), no shot blocker/rim protector, no forward wing etc.

Most importantly...

The schedule was soft, the PAC 12 was down. Only 3 good team and a fourth decent team. Cal got Cuonzo'd. UCLA wouldn't be as good without Ball, truly a once in a generation talent. So Arizona stacked up wins vs lesser competition, not very convincingly tbh.

They got hot in the conference tournament and beat Oregon/UCLA back to back. The team was 1-4 vs top 25 before that, don't know about others but gave me a false sense of security. I wasn't feeling that confident in the team before that, I thought they finally clicked but they just got hot for a couple games.

For most of the season the sheer talent could mask the problems (no high caliber PG) and the team would win on talent and good coaching alone.

The team wasn't that good imo, the advanced metrics and analytics showed that. Always ranked in the 20s despite constant top 4-9 AP ranking.

Got the perfect bracket to almost make a run anyway. Think the team loses to Gonzaga anyway.

[Chicat]

The tournament sure is cruel. Two weeks ago, everyone was praising Miller for his coaching in the face of great adversity. He even won the PAC-12 award for a job well done. Flash forward to today and most of the fan base thinks his coaching sucks.

I find that interesting too. Had Trier's 3 gone down, would Miller suddenly be such a monumentally better coach?

[PieceOfMeat]

The tournament sure is cruel. Two weeks ago, everyone was praising Miller for his coaching in the face of great adversity. He even won the PAC-12 award for a job well done. Flash forward to today and most of the fan base thinks his coaching sucks.

I find that interesting too. Had Trier's 3 gone down, would Miller suddenly be such a monumentally better coach?

For me, at least, that 3 missing has nothing to do with it. What does have to do with it is needing that shot in the first place, to win. We should have not been in that position.

"oh, but it's the tourney and ..."

yeah, I get it. but after 8 years I feel it's safe to wonder a little about certain things.

::::

Oh look, Frank Martin just took south carolina to the final four, in his 5th year there (10th overall coaching year). Yet another guy I don't think anyone would have picked to get to a FF, at south freakin carolina, before Miller would at Arizona.

[Chicat]

The tournament sure is cruel. Two weeks ago, everyone was praising Miller for his coaching in the face of great adversity. He even won the PAC-12 award for a job well done. Flash forward to today and most of the fan base thinks his coaching sucks.

I find that interesting too. Had Trier's 3 gone down, would Miller suddenly be such a monumentally better coach?

For me, at least, that 3 missing has nothing to do with it. What does have to do with it is needing that shot in the first place, to win. We should have not have been in that position.

So we win that Xavier game and that would have been your reaction? "Hey great, onto the Elite 8. But we shouldn't have needed that three to go down and I'm starting to question Miller..."?

Ok, sure.

Yeah, Frank Martin now has a Final Four. So does Jim Larranaga and Lee Rose. I fail to see what they have to do with Sean Miller.

[ChooChooCat]

Seems like only yesterday the concern was Miller will eventually leave for N.C. So no longer a concern?

UNC is going to go with someone from the UNC family.

You got a name of a guy in the UNC family worth hiring, because at the moment UNC certainly doesn't.

[Frybry02]

Seems like only yesterday the concern was Miller will eventually leave for N.C. So no longer a concern?

UNC is going to go with someone from the UNC family.

You got a name of a guy in the UNC family worth hiring, because at the moment UNC certainly doesn't.

If they stay in house, Hubert Davis would be my guess.

[ChooChooCat]

Oh look, Frank Martin just took south carolina to the final four, in his 5th year there (10th overall coaching year). Yet another guy I don't think anyone would have picked to get to a FF, at south freakin carolina, before Miller would at Arizona.

Btw for those who love the Sean Miller makes his teams tight because he's a control freak rhetoric, Frank Martin makes Sean Miller look like a pussy in regards to being a control freak. Martin just took a team with one offensive weapon to the Final Four.

[UAEebs86]

Oh look, Frank Martin just took south carolina to the final four, in his 5th year there (10th overall coaching year). Yet another guy I don't think anyone would have picked to get to a FF, at south freakin carolina, before Miller would at Arizona.

Btw for those who love the Sean Miller makes his teams tight because he's a control freak rhetoric, Frank Martin makes Sean Miller look like a pussy in regards to being a control freak. Martin just took a team with one offensive weapon to the Final Four.

Yep. Posted something similar in the game thread.

[Chicat]

Oh look, Frank Martin just took south carolina to the final four, in his 5th year there (10th overall coaching year). Yet another guy I don't think anyone would have picked to get to a FF, at south freakin carolina, before Miller would at Arizona.

Btw for those who love the Sean Miller makes his teams tight because he's a control freak rhetoric, Frank Martin makes Sean Miller look like a pussy in regards to being a control freak. Martin just took a team with one offensive weapon to the Final Four.

Frank Martin has also only been to the second weekend of the NCAA tourney one time in his career before this year, and hadn't taken USC to the tourney at all until this year.

[ChooChooCat]

Oh look, Frank Martin just took south carolina to the final four, in his 5th year there (10th overall coaching year). Yet another guy I don't think anyone would have picked to get to a FF, at south freakin carolina, before Miller would at Arizona.

Btw for those who love the Sean Miller makes his teams tight because he's a control freak rhetoric, Frank Martin makes Sean Miller look like a pussy in regards to being a control freak. Martin just took a team with one offensive weapon to the Final Four.

Frank Martin has also only been to the second weekend of the NCAA tourney one time in his career before this year, and hadn't taken USC to the tourney at all until this year.

The NCAA tournament is one hell of a dirty mistress who loves to play mind games.

[Chicat]

Oh look, Frank Martin just took south carolina to the final four, in his 5th year there (10th overall coaching year). Yet another guy I don't think anyone would have picked to get to a FF, at south freakin carolina, before Miller would at Arizona.

Btw for those who love the Sean Miller makes his teams tight because he's a control freak rhetoric, Frank Martin makes Sean Miller look like a pussy in regards to being a control freak. Martin just took a team with one offensive weapon to the Final Four.

Frank Martin has also only been to the second weekend of the NCAA tourney one time in his career before this year, and hadn't taken USC to the tourney at all until this year.

The NCAA tournament is one hell of a dirty mistress who loves to play mind games.

You're damn right. Makes a guy who wins his conference regular season title 13 times in a row look like a complete and total choke artist.

[az91]

The loss to Xavier shouldn't have happened. It was early similar to the late collapse (without the parade to the FT line) to Butler. Of course this one stings 10x that loss.

For me, I can't tell if Miller took a team that should have been 27-10 instead of 32-5. The injuries, the Zo issue, mixing in new players, limited depth early on, chemistry issues late, lack of an elite floor leader.

Games like this seem to happen in the tournament. For the most part, Miller has avoided this fate. I am incredibly disappointed but I just am not ready to make Miller the scapegoat. Shit happens

I think he overachieved with the team. The best players on this team were freshman and a sophomore. And only 1 one and done talent unlike the countless UK teams. The sophomore missed most of the season.

Allen really shouldn't be starting at the point, Dusan is soft and is terrible on defense -why he never gets benched like Kobi I'll never know. PJC is PJC, not a F4 caliber Guard. Decent backup.

Weak weak weak perimeter defense (especially when Allen isnt in), no shot blocker/rim protector, no forward wing etc.

Most importantly...

The schedule was soft, the PAC 12 was down. Only 3 good team and a fourth decent team. Cal got Cuonzo'd. UCLA wouldn't be as good without Ball, truly a once in a generation talent. So Arizona stacked up wins vs lesser competition, not very convincingly tbh.

They got hot in the conference tournament and beat Oregon/UCLA back to back. The team was 1-4 vs top 25 before that, don't know about others but gave me a false sense of security. I wasn't feeling that confident in the team before that, I thought they finally clicked but they just got hot for a couple games.

For most of the season the sheer talent could mask the problems (no high caliber PG) and the team would win on talent and good coaching alone.

The team wasn't that good imo, the advanced metrics and analytics showed that. Always ranked in the 20s despite constant top 4-9 AP ranking.

Got the perfect bracket to almost make a run anyway. Think the team loses to Gonzaga anyway.

This is the best post I have seen on this season. I didn't think we would beat Gonzaga either. The PAC-12 tournament gave everyone the illusion this team was elite. When the team struggled to put away North Dakota in the first round, I thought we were in trouble down the road.

[TheBuffet]

'97 team struggled to beat South Alabama.

[PieceOfMeat]

...I'm starting to question Miller...

You seem to be under the impression that I've not questioned miller in the past.

[AztoCa]

Decided to Look at Teams that made the final 4 since Miller joined UofA. Wanted to see how many basketball schools made it and which ones did not. And if making the final 4 is rare.

21 Final 4 participants since 2010

Kentucky (4 Trips) ( 1 Chip )
Michigan State ( 2 Trips )
North Carolina ( 2 Trips) ( 1 Chip )
Louisville (2 Trips) ( 1Chip )
UnConn (2 trips) ( 2 Chip )
Syracuse ( 2 Trips )
Villanova ( 1 Chip )
Duke ( 1 Chip )
Wisconsin ( 2 Trips)
Butler
West Virgina
VCU
Kansas
Ohio St.
Michigan
Wichita St.
Florida
Oklahoma
Gonzaga
Oregon
South Carolina

Basket Ball Schools that didn't make final 4 during Millers time here
1. UofA ( had good chances didn't get it done )
2. UCLA ( came off 3 final 4's then howland went south. Now have "Steve 16" 2.0 --> LOL hopefully forever
3. Indiana ( inconsistent recruiting not a good enough coach )

Recruiting ranking since Miller joined
1. Kentucky
2. Duke
3. UofA ( near tie with Duke )
4. Kansas ( self only 1 final 4 during this time )
5. UNC

To me the problem is the Dick Bennett coaching philoshpy ( motion offense & packline defense ) Dick had only one Final 4. Not sure why you would copy a guys coaching philosophy when he has only one final 4? So far Tony Bennett hasn't made the final 4 yet with dad's system . Seems like a Mid-Major grind it out system.

I remeber laughing at other teams when they were passing around the perimeter like a highschool team and Lute was running a modern NBA style offense with players running the show.

I Feel like Coach Miller has all the tools just hope the philosophy is not holding him back. And if it is I hope he makes the adjustments needed. I feel we are lucky to have Coach Miller he really works hard. And he is checking all the boxes except style of play, final 4's. Way better then having Tim Floyd or KO.

[Chicat]

...I'm starting to question Miller...

You seem to be under the impression that I've not questioned miller in the past.

I'm more under the impression that there are good reasons and not so good reasons to question Miller.

[PieceOfMeat]

...I'm starting to question Miller...

You seem to be under the impression that I've not questioned miller in the past.

I'm more under the impression that there are good reasons and not so good reasons to question Miller.

Do tell, what do you think the reasons I'm using are?

[PieceOfMeat]

To me the problem is the Dick Bennett coaching philoshpy ( motion offense & packline defense ) Dick had only one Final 4. Not sure why you would copy a guys coaching philosophy when he has only one final 4? So far Tony Bennett hasn't made the final 4 yet with dad's system . Seems like a Mid-Major grind it out system.

I remeber laughing at other teams when they were passing around the perimeter like a highschool team and Lute was running a modern NBA style offense with players running the show.

I Feel like Coach Miller has all the tools just hope the philosophy is not holding him back. And if it is I hope he makes the adjustments needed. I feel we are lucky to have Coach Miller he really works hard. And he is checking all the boxes except style of play, final 4's. Way better then having Tim Floyd or KO.

Some good points in there.

[NYCat]

To me the problem is the Dick Bennett coaching philoshpy ( motion offense & packline defense ) Dick had only one Final 4. Not sure why you would copy a guys coaching philosophy when he has only one final 4? So far Tony Bennett hasn't made the final 4 yet with dad's system . Seems like a Mid-Major grind it out system.

I remeber laughing at other teams when they were passing around the perimeter like a highschool team and Lute was running a modern NBA style offense with players running the show.

I Feel like Coach Miller has all the tools just hope the philosophy is not holding him back. And if it is I hope he makes the adjustments needed. I feel we are lucky to have Coach Miller he really works hard. And he is checking all the boxes except style of play, final 4's. Way better then having Tim Floyd or KO.

Some good points in there.

Doesn't make sense. That would be A Players Program.

[Chicat]

...I'm starting to question Miller...

You seem to be under the impression that I've not questioned miller in the past.

I'm more under the impression that there are good reasons and not so good reasons to question Miller.

Do tell, what do you think the reasons I'm using are?

I'm reading your posts about who has made the FF. Maybe you're trying to make some point about CSM in relation to some of those coaches and maybe you're not. But if you are, that seems silly.

[midnightx]

Did anyone expect Altman at oregon, or Few at gonzaga, to beat Miller at Arizona to a FF?

No. Miller should have made it in 2011 and 2013. Had AZ made it in 2011, they may very well have won the title.

[zonagrad]

My debut post:

I've enjoyed reading so many thoughtful posts over the last several months on this board and just now opted to sign on. (Semi-full disclosure, I'm Tucson raised and have followed the 'Cats since I was a kid and Coniel Norman was my favorite player). The over the top rantings about Sean Miller's shortcomings were too much to handle and I finally signed up to offer up my worthless two cents of opinion. So here goes:

Arizona overachieved in so many ways this season. The roster is full of talented but incomplete players, except perhaps Markannen, who was brilliant but perhaps a little too unselfish considering the supporting cast around him. What this team severely lacked and needed most against Xavier was a Ray Smith type player who could slash and play inside and outside. They needed someone who was big enough and yet still quick enough to attack the heart of the X zone. Arizona simply didn't have a player on the roster. Our perimeter players aren't big enough and our post players aren't quick enough. Perhaps Alkins was the closest in this mold and has the mindset but just not the size to go up against 6'7" players, especially in a tight zone defense.

Despite the roster shortcomings, whether it was Ristic's mobility, PJC size and skill, Trier's single-mindedness, etc...the game really boiled down to Arizona needing to make open shots. Any opposing coach would and should zone Arizona with the idea to throw the kitchen sink at Markannen and shut-off dribble penetration. Arizona got plenty of open looks on the perimeter because of players driving and kicking to the open man or Markannen passing out of double teams. Bottom line: we didn't knock down a high enough percentage of those shots. In fact, we didn't do that against St. Mary's either and survived (barely).

But looking at the big picture and the criticisms of Miller I see something that is severely overlooked: Arizona was a young team compared to the teams that made it to Glendale. Oregon had two 25 year olds on their roster (Ennis & Boucher). 25 years old!!!!! Jordan Bell is a seasoned senior and Brooks is a junior who started all three years. And look at Gonzaga. Three friggin' transfers, plus a fifth year senior in Karnowski. That's a lot of experience. Nigel Williams-Goss is essentially a 4th year junior and Jordan Matthews a senior with boat loads of experience. That's just the West Coast teams in the Final Four.

And Arizona? Markannen, Alkins and Simmons all are a whopping 19 years old, playing together for the first time. Trier, still just a sophomore, missed 19 games. And let's not forget he missed a considerable portion of last season due to injury as well. The rest of the roster is made up of players just beginning to get their sea legs as starters or key contributors. As much as I love Kadeem Allen, he really should be the fifth best player on the floor for a Final Four caliber team. His leadership and gutsiness were great. But we certainly should have better options to get buckets. As for PJC, the guy needs to play one way and one way only to be effective: he needs to play under-your-skin-defense and be a disruptive force. When he plays traditional defense, he's a liability. And his offensive game speaks for itself. If he's not knocking down 50% from three point range, he's a liability because he certainly can't penetrate and finish like other elite point guards his size. It's just not in his DNA.

In retrospect, it shouldn't be surprising that Arizona struggled with its youth in tight games. And luck certainly has played a factor. Oregon was damned fortunate to survive both Rhode Island and Michigan. So don't come at me with the argument that Dana Altman is a superior coach than Miller. If it wasn't for Tyler Dorsey making incredible shots at the end of the shot clock, Oregon would've packed its bags. And how many times did the Ducks choke at the free throw line, only to have Jordan Bell bail them out with an offensive rebound? Does Altman get the credit for that? If Michigan knocks down that wide open three pointer at the buzzer, the Ducks aren't dancing in Glendale and Altman is criticized for missing a once in a lifetime opportunity with such a loaded roster.

My biggest concern with the program is that we get talented players who aren't quite at the Duke-Kentucky level of greatness but are still picked way too high when they enter the draft early. Another year of Nick Johnson, Stanley Johnson, Rondae Hollis-Jefferson and Brandon Ashley was needed for Miller to get his first final four. I get the argument that some of them had "peaked" and had reached their earnings potential. But didn't Kaminsky and Dekker peak as well in 2014, only to come back and twist the knife again in 2015? If Stanley Johnson was such special player, why isn't he producing more in his second NBA season? Truthfully, is there much difference between him and Dillon Brooks, who is STILL at Oregon in his junior season?

So depending on who comes back next season will determine our ceiling. If it's another mass exodus and roster turnover, I'm afraid even with Aynton and Alkins we'll be back in the same boat next year: fighting for a slim chance to get to the promised land but one cold shooting night away from devastation. Hopefully Aynton can be a rim protector next year, something we've sorely missed since Rondae left. A telling statistic is that Keanu Pinder was our leading shot blocker despite having Comanche, Ristic and Markannen playing heavier minutes. Comanche seems like the best candidate to step into that role but I'm not sure if he has the mental makeup. He needs to embrace the physicality of the game. Right now, I don't see it.

So the usual drama will be who stays, who goes and what other recruits we'll pull before next season. I do know that Sean Miller will coach them up and have us fighting for another Pac 12 Conference regular season title. That probably isn't good enough to satisfy many in our fanbase who've become spoiled with success. But for Arizona to get over that hump, we're gonna need someone to step up and really take the reins to lead the team. Aynton may be a generational player, but we're gonna need a veteran player to really separate themselves from the type of player they were this season. Alkins? Trier? Simmons? Comanche? Better enjoy the ride instead of putting all your hopes on the month of March only to be disappointed. In summary, I know Arizona has something that most programs do not have every year. Hope. We take it for granted but it really is a wonderful gift that can also be cruel this time of year. Here's hoping to another adventurous ride with a happy ending.

[Chicat]

Welcome Zonagrad! Good points about our relative youth and shortcomings. Post more!

[rgdeuce]

Excellent first post zona grad. Re: experience, I made the same comment in the arch rivals forum, specifically to us and zaga/oregon. Think a lot of this is spot on.

[Longhorned]

Thank you, Z. I'm surprised we haven't met years ago. Everything you wrote rings true.

[Dave]

zonagrad steps up for his first at bat and hits it out of the park. Thanks!

[baconus66]

Every year I have seen minor tweaks to Miller's system and I am sure he will continue tweaking away until he perfects his system.

I know a great coach is the one that deals with adversity the best and I think Sean Miller did a great job with that this year with the loss of Ferguson and Smith and then Trier for most of the season. You have to be able to adjust and prepare for those but at the end of the day the teams that make the final four are more often the teams that had everything go right.

We have rarely had everything go right during our years with the highest chance to compete.

2013-14 if we don't lose Ashley, there is a good chance we make the Final 4 (hell there was a good chance we would have gone undefeated)

2014-15 we were as close to full strength as we've been, but our lack of shooters killed us. I just don't think you can make a final four when your best shooter is a Junior York coming off the bench.

This year had Ray Smith been healthy who knows what would have happened, but I think he would have largely filled that defensive gap we felt all season. You never know what would have happened but I would bet a lot that a Ray Smith guarded Bluiett would not score 25.

Looking back at the rest of our loses you have to think Ray Smith would have prevented a lot of them. We throughout had trouble guarding that 6-5 to 6-9 guy that was too big for Kadeem and too fast for Lauri. Butler had Martin with 16 (6-7), Oregon had Brooks and Dorsey with 18+, UCLA had Leaf and Ball, and of course Bluiett.

I just cant put it all on Miller, sure some was his fault, but I think he will learn and improve. Some was out of his control.

[Spaceman Spiff]

Zonagrad, welcome aboard. Good post, and I hope you continue to co tribute.

Some points I agree with in your post:

Shooting against Xavier. If we shoot the 3 below average, and not abysmally like we did, we win and we might not be having this conversation. I say might not because Gonzaga was really good on Saturday, and if they had played like that, they would have likely beaten us.

Moreso, the shooting, you can't gameplan that. Offenses are designed to get good shooters makeable shots. Whether they go in isn't on the coaches or the players. Sometimes they just don't fall.

Some of the shots Oregon hit show how putting this on a coach is a little silly. You can't tell me Altman was gameplanning Dorsey to bank a 30 footer to end the half against KU. That's a bad shot until it goes in. Oregon hit a bunch of tough shots. If they miss one of those tough ahots against Michigan, they're out just like us.

I totally agree about youth. In addition to the freshmen, Pinder was in his first year here. Of our rotation guys, three had more than twp years experience. That is the upside/downside of talented recruits. Kentucky and Calipari deal with the same issue. You just can't expect that a young rotation responds to zones, adversity, etc as well as a veteran laden team.

[rgdeuce]

Did anyone expect Altman at oregon, or Few at gonzaga, to beat Miller at Arizona to a FF?

Altman has been coaching for 29 years and is a great coach. Few is a very good coach and has had it made playing the system for 18 years at a school that still brings in a lot of talent that sticks around. Kevin Ollie has a national title for crying out loud. Nothing should surprise anyone when it comes to the NCAA tournament.

Few may never leave Gonzaga. It is the gravy train. Virtually no pressure there compared to the brand named majors. The formula is simple: bring in the guys you have been bringing in, get your guy (or two or three) that wants to transfer and win and will be guaranteed big minutes (vs going to a Kansas, Kentucky, AZ, etc), schedule a few tough out of conference games where you will have a distinct advantage early because you will likely have a very experienced team and others will likely be ran by young guys. If you do well in nonconference, you are guaranteed a 1 or 2 seed because you are likely going to only lose one more game the rest of the year. You cant beat that.

[Merkin]

I recall when Few was mentioned for the UA job BM (Before Miller), it was said he wasn't interested because he loves the PNW along with fly fishing and other outdoor activities which aren't available in the desert.

Don't think CSM has any hobbies, since he works so dang hard.

[Spaceman Spiff]

Did anyone expect Altman at oregon, or Few at gonzaga, to beat Miller at Arizona to a FF?

Altman has been coaching for 29 years and is a great coach. Few is a very good coach and has had it made playing the system for 18 years at a school that still brings in a lot of talent that sticks around. Kevin Ollie has a national title for crying out loud. Nothing should surprise anyone when it comes to the NCAA tournament.

Few may never leave Gonzaga. It is the gravy train. Virtually no pressure there compared to the brand named majors. The formula is simple: bring in the guys you have been bringing in, get your guy (or two or three) that wants to transfer and win and will be guaranteed big minutes (vs going to a Kansas, Kentucky, AZ, etc), schedule a few tough out of conference games where you will have a distinct advantage early because you will likely have a very experienced team and others will likely be ran by young guys. If you do well in nonconference, you are guaranteed a 1 or 2 seed because you are likely going to only lose one more game the rest of the year. You cant beat that.

I don't know why Few is a shock. In fact, I'd venture he was essentially known as the biggest coach not to make a FF. The talent's been there for a while, and he's really built past the midmajor stigma. Collins was a big time recruit and Few has really cornered the market on decent major recruits who get recruited over.

Altman, they were in the Elite Eight last year and returned basically everyone. Again, not really a stunner. Altman is a legit coach and has Oregon humming along. I would stick by Miller as the best coach in the Pac, but Altman is easily pushing him and definitely #2.

[rgdeuce]

The tournament sure is cruel. Two weeks ago, everyone was praising Miller for his coaching in the face of great adversity. He even won the PAC-12 award for a job well done. Flash forward to today and most of the fan base thinks his coaching sucks.

I find that interesting too. Had Trier's 3 gone down, would Miller suddenly be such a monumentally better coach?

For me, at least, that 3 missing has nothing to do with it. What does have to do with it is needing that shot in the first place, to win. We should have not been in that position.

"oh, but it's the tourney and ..."

yeah, I get it. but after 8 years I feel it's safe to wonder a little about certain things.

::::

Oh look, Frank Martin just took south carolina to the final four, in his 5th year there (10th overall coaching year). Yet another guy I don't think anyone would have picked to get to a FF, at south freakin carolina, before Miller would at Arizona.

South Carolina caught lightning in a bottle. They have two guards who are NBA-level talents (a senior and sophomore), another very good senior and sophomore also start. It took Martin 5 years to take South Carolina to the NCAA tournament. This is year five. At Kansas State he got knocked out in the round of 32 three times and the sweet 16 once. The one year he made it to the elite 8, he got there by beating three mid-majors and he eventually lost to a mid-major.

This is the problem. You cant have your cake and eat it too. The NCAA tournament is a motherf-cker. Bill Self is 2-7 in the elite 8 and he has been a 1 seed seven times. His title run has saved his ass, but take that away for the purpose of this argument, is Kansas still not without a doubt one of the four best programs in the country had they lost in the elite 8 that year instead of winning it all? Every single NCAA team in the country sans Duke, Kentucky and UNC envy Self and Kansas right now to a degree. Even then, Kentucky, Duke and UNC may still have a bit of envy because of their consistent dominance. We are hyperfocused on the final four and putting on blinders to everything else. A single elimination tournament has us talking reckless. Final fours and titles are great and yes, I want one as bad as the next man. Eventually we will get what we want. But I'll be damned if we do it at the cost of bringing in a guy who took 5 years to take a team to the NCAA tournament (and now they are in a final four). Or a Kevin Ollie, who won a championship but in the four other years has failed to make the tournament 3x and lost in the round of 32 the other year. NCAA basketball is bigger than just final fours.

[rgdeuce]

Oh look, Frank Martin just took south carolina to the final four, in his 5th year there (10th overall coaching year). Yet another guy I don't think anyone would have picked to get to a FF, at south freakin carolina, before Miller would at Arizona.

Btw for those who love the Sean Miller makes his teams tight because he's a control freak rhetoric, Frank Martin makes Sean Miller look like a pussy in regards to being a control freak. Martin just took a team with one offensive weapon to the Final Four.

This. Martin is a psychopath