Who's staying? Who's going?

[CalStateTempe]

Love rawle, but I can't understand why a project would want to leave in a crowded draft year when you can come back and play yourself into a guaranteed first round contract next year.

[CatFanOneMil]

Scheer said on the radio today he thinks Alkins and Comanche are gone.

He also said it was more likely Chance was coming back than Rawle.

This quote alone convinces me he doesn't know wgat the hell he's talking about, Comanche stayed out of town for nearly three weeks while Rawle was in Tucson, NO ONE WHO STRUGGLES ACADEMICALLY CAN AFFORD TO MISS TWO WEEKS OF CLASS...

I give zero chances Chance is back because of grades..

[PHXCATS]

Is it time to start hating on players before they're even gone again, already?

Questioning is not hating.

[Spaceman Spiff]

Is it time to start hating on players before they're even gone again, already?

Questioning is not hating.

2 weeks ago: "Zo and Kobi are selfish, and I wish they were more like Rawle. That's a kid who has his head on straight and is going to succeed."

Today: "Rawle isn't ready and will fail. He needs to be smart like Zo and take another year."

Meanwhile, there isn't any hard word Rawle's gone. This board's habit of turning from praise to attack before a player even leaves is crazy to me. Allonzo was a great example. There were plenty of posts "questioning" pretty strongly right up until he stayed.

[gumby]

Anyone who puts Lauri outside the top 10 can't be taken seriously. He goes top 7 no question

Nobody puts Lauri in the corner!

[PennZona20]

Is it time to start hating on players before they're even gone again, already?

Questioning is not hating.

2 weeks ago: "Zo and Kobi are selfish, and I wish they were more like Rawle. That's a kid who has his head on straight and is going to succeed."

Today: "Rawle isn't ready and will fail. He needs to be smart like Zo and take another year."

Meanwhile, there isn't any hard word Rawle's gone. This board's habit of turning from praise to attack before a player even leaves is crazy to me. Allonzo was a great example. There were plenty of posts "questioning" pretty strongly right up until he stayed.

Just going by what insiders (Scheer , et al) are saying. I'm not convinced Alkins is gone because he seems like a smart kid. I stand by my opinion that IF Alkins leaves he's making a foolish decision that will likely cost him millions long term.


I hope I'm wrong along w the "insiders" and Rawle is our staring SF next year.

[gumby]

A month or two ago I would've given it 0 chance that Comanche and Alkins would leave but now...It would be a huge blow to our chances next year to lose the two of them and Simmons, even with Trier coming back.

Depends on what's happening to other teams. Defections abound.

Now it may be considered a victory when you can keep two starters -- Trier and Ristic -- and round that out with returners, transfers and freshmen.

Even Gonzaga, once immune to this, is feeling it: Gone are Williams-Goss and Collins. Already gone: Karnowski, Matthews. Returning: Perkins, Williams, Melson. One of their bench guys -- redshirt -- just transferred.

Oregon: Pritchard lone returning starter. Even Babgy-Williams is considering a transfer. Benson already did.

UCLA: Ball, Leaf, Anigbogu gone. Welch and Holiday have declared. Alford, Hamilton gone. Returning: ??

So as we lament, keep in mind that great Les McCann/Eddie Harris tune: "Compared to What?"

[gumby]

Is it time to start hating on players before they're even gone again, already?

Questioning is not hating.

2 weeks ago: "Zo and Kobi are selfish, and I wish they were more like Rawle. That's a kid who has his head on straight and is going to succeed."

Today: "Rawle isn't ready and will fail. He needs to be smart like Zo and take another year."

Meanwhile, there isn't any hard word Rawle's gone. This board's habit of turning from praise to attack before a player even leaves is crazy to me. Allonzo was a great example. There were plenty of posts "questioning" pretty strongly right up until he stayed.

Yep. There's always primal screaming to vent.

Just know that you're not alone.

[gumby]

Sure makes those early Top 25 lists an even bigger joke than they already were.

[EVCat]

I agree it would be a huge mistake for Alkins to leave...unless he is getting a first round guarantee. Then, well...that's a personal choice. But short of that...and I doubt that is happening...it would be a bad move.

But let's wait and see before going through that whole "I hate him, he's stupid. Idiot. I hope he blows a knee and dies" cycle that makes us all feel dirty when the player actually comes back (see: Trier). Scheer is pretty plugged in, but we also heard conflicting reports about Nick and Stanley. The fact is, the player isn't really sure what he is going to do until he does it. He may have an idea, but until that agent is hired or that deadline is passed, no one knows for sure...not even family. Nick was a great example of that...his mom was a bit shocked by the decision because she thought, against some family counsel, that he was going to come back up to the moment he called and asked her to come to Dallas to be with him to make the decision final. There is no reason to start cracking on Rawle for something he didn't say...

[Beachcat97]

I haven't seen anything in this thread to convince me that Alkins is gone. I actually think no news is good news. If he were definitely going pro, he'd have hired an agent already.

[EVCat]

A month or two ago I would've given it 0 chance that Comanche and Alkins would leave but now...It would be a huge blow to our chances next year to lose the two of them and Simmons, even with Trier coming back.

Depends on what's happening to other teams. Defections abound.

Now it may be considered a victory when you can keep two starters -- Trier and Ristic -- and round that out with returners, transfers and freshmen.

Even Gonzaga, once immune to this, is feeling it: Gone are Williams-Goss and Collins. Already gone: Karnowski, Matthews. Returning: Perkins, Williams, Melson. One of their bench guys -- redshirt -- just transferred.

Oregon: Pritchard lone returning starter. Even Babgy-Williams is considering a transfer. Benson already did.

UCLA: Ball, Leaf, Anigbogu gone. Welch and Holiday have declared. Alford, Hamilton gone. Returning: ??

So as we lament, keep in mind that great Les McCann/Eddie Harris tune: "Compared to What?"

There may also be a rush this year and a hard sell by agents because of the additional 2-way NBA/D-League spots. Once those are also filled by young prospects (this class), you may see a return to normal by next year. I don't know this to be fact, but there does seem to be more questionable decision making this year, and I imagine the agents who want to get these kids to go now are playing a combination of the ego stroke ("you can make it...you just gotta be seen by the coaches") AND the fallback of "you might have to start at D-League, but you will get a 2-way contract and without (insert coach) slowing you down, you will ball out and be in the association in no time."

[Spaceman Spiff]

Is it time to start hating on players before they're even gone again, already?

Questioning is not hating.

2 weeks ago: "Zo and Kobi are selfish, and I wish they were more like Rawle. That's a kid who has his head on straight and is going to succeed."

Today: "Rawle isn't ready and will fail. He needs to be smart like Zo and take another year."

Meanwhile, there isn't any hard word Rawle's gone. This board's habit of turning from praise to attack before a player even leaves is crazy to me. Allonzo was a great example. There were plenty of posts "questioning" pretty strongly right up until he stayed.

Just going by what insiders (Scheer , et al) are saying. I'm not convinced Alkins is gone because he seems like a smart kid. I stand by my opinion that IF Alkins leaves he's making a foolish decision that will likely cost him millions long term.

I hope I'm wrong along w the "insiders" and Rawle is our staring SF next year.

I mean, he might leave. I'm just not a big fan of assessing the choice before it is made. It leads to us ripping on a player who may be here next year, and part of the bipolarity fandom that I dislike (although I'm sure I do some of it myself at times).

[PHXCATS]

I haven't seen anything in this thread to convince me that Alkins is gone. I actually think no news is good news. If he were definitely going pro, he'd have hired an agent already.

Yeah don't worry about what one of the most connected guys to the program says

[CalStateTempe]

Is scheer really "that" connected?

I know he has credentials but I always assumed someone like Ryan Hansen to be "more connected"

For being "connected", Scheer tweets/reports with lots of conjecture/indirect information.

[EVCat]

I mean, he might leave. I'm just not a big fan of assessing the choice before it is made. It leads to us ripping on a player who may be here next year, and part of the bipolarity fandom that I dislike (although I'm sure I do some of it myself at times).

This also leads to a disorder (and symptom of the times) I am trying to get accepted by medical/psychological professionals as "The Message Board Disorder." This disorder is more prevalent in football because of additional depth, but it goes something like this:

1. Patient gets mad at player (usually QB, but could be other sports position), declares back up "a much better choice".

2. Other fans on message board take exception with knee jerk reaction, respond to patient with reasons they are wrong/starting player is best option

3. Patient doubles down, goes on rants with increasing vitriol aimed at player in question, most notably in "in-game" threads. Finds fault in every movement of questioned player, creates larger narratives out of thin air suggesting player is not only playing poorly, but is also damaging team morale/psyche and is the single reason team is losing games. Debates again ensue, patient calls others "sheeple", suggests everyone is swinging from nutsack of coach/player.

4. Patient starts actively cheering against player, which in reality means patient is now cheering against his own team. Patient would rather win the argument than win the game...

5. Patient becomes resident message board troll even after player leaves program. The period of cheering against his "team" and engaging in weekly battles with other fans of same team has hardened patient into a hater of their once-beloved team. Patient points to past fan-based activities and achievements known to community to prove they are still a fan of the team in once-monthly thread where fandom is questioned, but in all reality, patient has not actively cheered for team to win in years, because this would rob patient of identity as "the message board resident critic."

"Player" can be replaced by "coach" in above detail. Anyone with a few years in the Arizona message board circle may replace "patient" with "Cogent".

[EVCat]

Is scheer really "that" connected?

I know he has credentials but I always assumed someone like Ryan Hansen to be "more connected"

For being "connected", Scheer tweets/reports with lots of conjecture/indirect information.

Those guys definitely have sources, but the sources are only as good as the information, and the information is nearly worthless in these cases because, until the decision is made, the decision can really go either way, and depending on who the source is, the information from the player may be skewed on purpose.

The backtrack is always the "until just hours before (player) decided to return, I am told he was telling family and friends he was going to declare. This is what I reported last week, and was known to be (player's) intention before sudden change of heart."

Because, to quote the great Arizona band The Refreshments: "Last fact of the matter...there never was no facts involved...."

[Beachcat97]

I haven't seen anything in this thread to convince me that Alkins is gone. I actually think no news is good news. If he were definitely going pro, he'd have hired an agent already.

Yeah don't worry about what one of the most connected guys to the program says

Scheer is guessing. I sorta doubt that he knows significantly more than others on this topic.

[gumby]

I mean, he might leave. I'm just not a big fan of assessing the choice before it is made. It leads to us ripping on a player who may be here next year, and part of the bipolarity fandom that I dislike (although I'm sure I do some of it myself at times).

This also leads to a disorder (and symptom of the times) I am trying to get accepted by medical/psychological professionals as "The Message Board Disorder." This disorder is more prevalent in football because of additional depth, but it goes something like this:

1. Patient gets mad at player (usually QB, but could be other sports position), declares back up "a much better choice".

2. Other fans on message board take exception with knee jerk reaction, respond to patient with reasons they are wrong/starting player is best option

3. Patient doubles down, goes on rants with increasing vitriol aimed at player in question, most notably in "in-game" threads. Finds fault in every movement of questioned player, creates larger narratives out of thin air suggesting player is not only playing poorly, but is also damaging team morale/psyche and is the single reason team is losing games. Debates again ensue, patient calls others "sheeple", suggests everyone is swinging from nutsack of coach/player.

4. Patient starts actively cheering against player, which in reality means patient is now cheering against his own team. Patient would rather win the argument than win the game...

5. Patient becomes resident message board troll even after player leaves program. The period of cheering against his "team" and engaging in weekly battles with other fans of same team has hardened patient into a hater of their once-beloved team. Patient points to past fan-based activities and achievements known to community to prove they are still a fan of the team in once-monthly thread where fandom is questioned, but in all reality, patient has not actively cheered for team to win in years, because this would rob patient of identity as "the message board resident critic."

"Player" can be replaced by "coach" in above detail. Anyone with a few years in the Arizona message board circle may replace "patient" with "Cogent".

This is really good, but the disorder already exists: Narcisstic Personality Disorder.

Less damaging when it unfolds on a message board. Just be thankful it's not a person in power. That would really suck.

http://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-cond ... n-20025568" target="_blank

[gumby]

A month or two ago I would've given it 0 chance that Comanche and Alkins would leave but now...It would be a huge blow to our chances next year to lose the two of them and Simmons, even with Trier coming back.

Depends on what's happening to other teams. Defections abound.

Now it may be considered a victory when you can keep two starters -- Trier and Ristic -- and round that out with returners, transfers and freshmen.

Even Gonzaga, once immune to this, is feeling it: Gone are Williams-Goss and Collins. Already gone: Karnowski, Matthews. Returning: Perkins, Williams, Melson. One of their bench guys -- redshirt -- just transferred.

Oregon: Pritchard lone returning starter. Even Babgy-Williams is considering a transfer. Benson already did.

UCLA: Ball, Leaf, Anigbogu gone. Welch and Holiday have declared. Alford, Hamilton gone. Returning: ??

So as we lament, keep in mind that great Les McCann/Eddie Harris tune: "Compared to What?"

There may also be a rush this year and a hard sell by agents because of the additional 2-way NBA/D-League spots. Once those are also filled by young prospects (this class), you may see a return to normal by next year. I don't know this to be fact, but there does seem to be more questionable decision making this year, and I imagine the agents who want to get these kids to go now are playing a combination of the ego stroke ("you can make it...you just gotta be seen by the coaches") AND the fallback of "you might have to start at D-League, but you will get a 2-way contract and without (insert coach) slowing you down, you will ball out and be in the association in no time."

This gives me hope. Thanks

[YoDeFoe]

Scheer shoots from the hip all the damn time. I put no credence in his word.

We all hope Rawle returns. I won't be surprised if he goes and takes a D-League $50-75k contract with the possibility of getting called up to the NBA for league minimum day rate (10-18x that of the D-League). That's a choice.

[SirClinks]

2 weeks ago: "Zo and Kobi are selfish, and I wish they were more like Rawle. That's a kid who has his head on straight and is going to succeed."

Today: "Rawle isn't ready and will fail. He needs to be smart like Zo and take another year."

Meanwhile, there isn't any hard word Rawle's gone. This board's habit of turning from praise to attack before a player even leaves is crazy to me. Allonzo was a great example. There were plenty of posts "questioning" pretty strongly right up until he stayed.

Yeah, people turn on players quickly here! Scheer says a lot of things. Mostly to drive people to drop $10 a month for the "insider" info.

[TucsonClip]

Scheer shoots from the hip all the damn time. I put no credence in his word.

We all hope Rawle returns. I won't be surprised if he goes and takes a D-League $50-75k contract with the possibility of getting called up to the NBA for league minimum day rate (10-18x that of the D-League). That's a choice.

An NBA team has to sign him to a two-way contract first.

[Puerco]

Is it time to start hating on players before they're even gone again, already?

Questioning is not hating.

2 weeks ago: "Zo and Kobi are selfish, and I wish they were more like Rawle. That's a kid who has his head on straight and is going to succeed."

Today: "Rawle isn't ready and will fail. He needs to be smart like Zo and take another year."

Meanwhile, there isn't any hard word Rawle's gone. This board's habit of turning from praise to attack before a player even leaves is crazy to me. Allonzo was a great example. There were plenty of posts "questioning" pretty strongly right up until he stayed.

This is a weird take, at least if it was directed at my post. Quite simply, a belief that one or more of our players is not an NBA talent, or is not ready to leave for the draft is not hating. Rawle seems to have a great attitude, a great personality. I love his toughness, and I desperately hope he comes back. That said, I simply don't think he has the tool set to succeed in the NBA. Could he develop one? Of course. But right here and now, I'd be shocked if he got drafted. This is a deep draft, and tweener perimeter players ain't exactly hard to find or particularly valued unless they've got something elite.

[ChooChooCat]

Scheer said on the radio today he thinks Alkins and Comanche are gone.

He also said it was more likely Chance was coming back than Rawle.

This quote alone convinces me he doesn't know wgat the hell he's talking about, Comanche stayed out of town for nearly three weeks while Rawle was in Tucson, NO ONE WHO STRUGGLES ACADEMICALLY CAN AFFORD TO MISS TWO WEEKS OF CLASS...

I give zero chances Chance is back because of grades..

His grades are fine. Scheer does know what he's talking about.

[Longhorned]

Is scheer really "that" connected?

I know he has credentials but I always assumed someone like Ryan Hansen to be "more connected"

For being "connected", Scheer tweets/reports with lots of conjecture/indirect information.

Yes, he's that connected. I'd be interested in being pointed to a single example when he's ever just shot from the hip.

[BibbysTowelDude]

They'll both be wearing Wildcat uniforms next season.

[UAEebs86]

They'll both be wearing Wildcat uniforms next season.

[UAEebs86]

"Player" can be replaced by "coach" in above detail. Anyone with a few years in the Arizona message board circle may replace "patient" with "Cogent".

Wow, there's a blast from the past. cogent and uacats took turns being the most negative posters at TOS.

[CatMG]

I wonder if Trier's return has anything to do with their decisions (whatever decision that may be). Trier's a great player but he's very ball dominant.

Probably. Lucky for them, you don't find many of those in the NBA

[EVCat]

They'll both be wearing Wildcat uniforms next season.

worth quoting...

Like I said, no one knows for sure because, until the kid makes a definitive action, they don't even know for sure.

But this is more likely than the opposite.

[Beachcat97]

If Rawle and Chance are back, wow. I'm inclined to see that as our best case scenario, better than adding some of the big fish from the '17 class still out there.

PJC
Trier
Alkins
Ayton
Ristic

Guard depth: Randolph, Smith, Barcello
Frontcourt depth: Comanche, Lee, Pinder

That's solidly a top 5 team, with arguably as much returning talent as Miller's ever had.

[Spaceman Spiff]

They'll both be wearing Wildcat uniforms next season.

worth quoting...

Like I said, no one knows for sure because, until the kid makes a definitive action, they don't even know for sure.

But this is more likely than the opposite.

I figure there's a 100% chance they're leaving or staying. The rest is pretty unclear.

[gumby]

So far, 2.4 players for each of the 60 slots in the NBA draft, not including seniors.

Conference list, courtesy of Pascoe.

http://tucson.com/sports/arizonawildcat ... 0d868.html" target="_blank

ARIZONA

Lauri Markkanen, freshman
Kobi Simmons, freshman
Rawle Alkins, freshman (no agent)
Chance Comanche, sophomore (no agent)

CAL

Ivan Rabb, sophomore

OREGON

Dillon Brooks, junior
Jordan Bell, junior
Tyler Dorsey, sophomore

OREGON STATE

Stephen Thompson, Jr.,
Drew Eubanks, sophomore (no agent)

UCLA

Ike Anigbogu, freshman
Lonzo Ball, freshman
T.J. Leaf, freshman
Thomas Welch (no agent)

Aaron Holiday, sophomore (no agent)

USC

Elijah Stewart, junior (no agent)
Bennie Boatwright, sophomore (no agent)
Shaqquan Aaron, sophomore (no agent)

UTAH

Kyle Kuzma, junior (no agent)

WASHINGTON

Markelle Fultz, freshman

[gumby]

Pascoe:

The next date of interest will be in about a week when the NBA Combine invitations are released (the NBA has not released a date for that announcement but it arrived at the end of April last year).

Since 60-70 players are typically invited to the combine – and there are always several potential draftees from overseas who cannot attend – not getting an invite might be a sign a player probably will not be drafted. Tyler Dorsey and Dillon Brooks were not invited last year and returned to Oregon.

[rgdeuce]

I'm downright convinced the Alkins won't. The kid is unpolished and not hugely athletic.

the most curious statement i"ve seen round here in a long time. Alkins is not athletic? Well now i've heard it all.

Alkins is athletic, but his athleticism does not project well at the next level. He needs to better learn how to use his body, as I feel his COMBINATION of size (bulk) and athleticism is his best asset. If you recall early in the season, Rawle was not getting around anybody one on one. Dudes were beating him to spots, resulting in all those charging calls or him pivoting to regroup and continue to dribble the air out of the ball. Once he started hitting outside and understanding he can't just blow by people anymore and has to attack when the opportunity presents itself, then his offensive game really started to blossom. Dude needs to become a very good outside shooter to separate himself from others at the next level IMO. Defensively he has a long ways to go and I would even call him a liability at that level right now.

I'm not ruling out Rawle at the next level because I really feel that kid has that "it" factor in his blood that not everyone has. I'm not going to compare his game to Draymond Green, but I think he has the ability to be a poor man's Draymond on the offensive end (I wont go there on the defensive end). I just think he needs some more time to improve and marinade. He's like a high-quality used leather shoe with outstanding craftsmanship that you stole on ebay for $20, that just needs some polish and some elbow grease.

[rgdeuce]

Culture problem? Is the environment really that bad that kids will leave when they likely shouldn't? Or has Miller recruited the kids with poor decision making?

Something is definitely going on. Hopefully this is enough of a shock for Miller to take a hard look at how things could evolve.

It's a domino effect with a bunch of 18- and 19-year-olds guys. Nothing more, nothing less. This generation is instant gratification, materialistic, very impressionable, and have short attention spans. Some more so than others, but those are traits they have been socialized with, it is what it is. You see your buddies and teammates jetting, you see what is out there and how much money could be made, you take the leap. Rawle sees himself better than Kobi (he was) and goes, shit, I want a piece of that and if Kobi can do it, I sure as hell can.

[Spaceman Spiff]

I'm downright convinced the Alkins won't. The kid is unpolished and not hugely athletic.

the most curious statement i"ve seen round here in a long time. Alkins is not athletic? Well now i've heard it all.

Alkins is athletic, but his athleticism does not project well at the next level. He needs to better learn how to use his body, as I feel his COMBINATION of size (bulk) and athleticism is his best asset. If you recall early in the season, Rawle was not getting around anybody one on one. Dudes were beating him to spots, resulting in all those charging calls or him pivoting to regroup and continue to dribble the air out of the ball. Once he started hitting outside and understanding he can't just blow by people anymore and has to attack when the opportunity presents itself, then his offensive game really started to blossom. Dude needs to become a very good outside shooter to separate himself from others at the next level IMO. Defensively he has a long ways to go and I would even call him a liability at that level right now.

I'm not ruling out Rawle at the next level because I really feel that kid has that "it" factor in his blood that not everyone has. I'm not going to compare his game to Draymond Green, but I think he has the ability to be a poor man's Draymond on the offensive end (I wont go there on the defensive end). I just think he needs some more time to improve and marinade. He's like a high-quality used leather shoe with outstanding craftsmanship that you stole on ebay for $20, that just needs some polish and some elbow grease.

I agree with this. I always use Gerald Green as an example of how just being a good athlete isn't much in the NBA. Gerald Green might be a top 10 all time athlete in the NBA, and he has floated to the D league and never been more than a rotation guy.

Rawle is a good athlete, but the NBA is stacked with good athletes. Being a good athlete is closer to an entrance requirement than an asset. Even real freaks like AG have issues with the overall level of athleticism that exists in the league.

[rgdeuce]

Scheer said on the radio today he thinks Alkins and Comanche are gone.

He also said it was more likely Chance was coming back than Rawle.

This quote alone convinces me he doesn't know wgat the hell he's talking about, Comanche stayed out of town for nearly three weeks while Rawle was in Tucson, NO ONE WHO STRUGGLES ACADEMICALLY CAN AFFORD TO MISS TWO WEEKS OF CLASS...

I give zero chances Chance is back because of grades..

I went to the U of A. I may be able to count on two hands the number of upper division classes wherein I got A's or B's and only showed up to class maybe 4 or 5 times, mid-term and final included. Hell, I had a 97% in a class that was filled with Eller students and I think I showed up three days. In a class I actually showed up for most of the time, Salim Stoudamire was in the class. I saw him three times all semester.

[Merkin]

Athletic Department has tutors, and every test on file. Apparently the Greeks do too.

I signed up for an Anthro 100 class that when I showed up was full of Greeks and athletes.

Class was maybe 1/3rd full after the first day.

Same with an astronomy class I took. Out of 100 seats in class, there was maybe 8 there on the first Friday. I never showed up Friday after that.

[Spaceman Spiff]

Scheer said on the radio today he thinks Alkins and Comanche are gone.

He also said it was more likely Chance was coming back than Rawle.

This quote alone convinces me he doesn't know wgat the hell he's talking about, Comanche stayed out of town for nearly three weeks while Rawle was in Tucson, NO ONE WHO STRUGGLES ACADEMICALLY CAN AFFORD TO MISS TWO WEEKS OF CLASS...

I give zero chances Chance is back because of grades..

I went to the U of A. I may be able to count on two hands the number of upper division classes wherein I got A's or B's and only showed up to class maybe 4 or 5 times, mid-term and final included. Hell, I had a 97% in a class that was filled with Eller students and I think I showed up three days. In a class I actually showed up for most of the time, Salim Stoudamire was in the class. I saw him three times all semester.

Worrying about Chance also presumes Chance's schedule. It would not be odd for him to load his year for more class time in the fall semester, when basketball demands are less.

I don't know offhand, but if Arizona offers self study or online courses, he could be fine without setting foot in Tucson. There's just a lot that Instagram can't tell you.

[EVCat]

Culture problem? Is the environment really that bad that kids will leave when they likely shouldn't? Or has Miller recruited the kids with poor decision making?

Something is definitely going on. Hopefully this is enough of a shock for Miller to take a hard look at how things could evolve.

It's a domino effect with a bunch of 18- and 19-year-olds guys. Nothing more, nothing less. This generation is instant gratification, materialistic, very impressionable, and have short attention spans. Some more so than others, but those are traits they have been socialized with, it is what it is. You see your buddies and teammates jetting, you see what is out there and how much money could be made, you take the leap. Rawle sees himself better than Kobi (he was) and goes, shit, I want a piece of that and if Kobi can do it, I sure as hell can.

Yup...this happened in 2001 as well. Everyone left, and Jason Gardner really, really, seriously considered, and may have even entered without an agent and did that whole thing, knowing full well he was not draft material. Michael Wright got caught up in that insanity...he ended up eeking out a good living, and he wasn't going to suddenly be able to jump over a deck of cards, but that was still an era where players only left early if they were going to get NBA guarantees. When Loren Woods and RJ and then even sophomore Gilbert Arenas declared, there was definitely a sense of "I play with that guy everyday...if he is good enough, I am good enough."

Think of any social situation where you are young and around alpha types who are all going to do something big. You start to figure out how you might be able to join in if it is something cool...and declaring for the NBA draft certainly has a cache among other people their age. It isn't logical or rational...but it definitely happens.

[EVCat]

Scheer said on the radio today he thinks Alkins and Comanche are gone.

He also said it was more likely Chance was coming back than Rawle.

This quote alone convinces me he doesn't know wgat the hell he's talking about, Comanche stayed out of town for nearly three weeks while Rawle was in Tucson, NO ONE WHO STRUGGLES ACADEMICALLY CAN AFFORD TO MISS TWO WEEKS OF CLASS...

I give zero chances Chance is back because of grades..

I went to the U of A. I may be able to count on two hands the number of upper division classes wherein I got A's or B's and only showed up to class maybe 4 or 5 times, mid-term and final included. Hell, I had a 97% in a class that was filled with Eller students and I think I showed up three days. In a class I actually showed up for most of the time, Salim Stoudamire was in the class. I saw him three times all semester.

Worrying about Chance also presumes Chance's schedule. It would not be odd for him to load his year for more class time in the fall semester, when basketball demands are less.

I don't know offhand, but if Arizona offers self study or online courses, he could be fine without setting foot in Tucson. There's just a lot that Instagram can't tell you.

I've mentioned it a few times, even giving a long cut and paste in support, but people want to believe he is not able to maintain eligibility because they wouldn't have been able to in the same situation. Hoops players frontload their summer and fall, and take the barest of minimums in the spring. If there is a lab only, or an independent study, or an online course they can find, they find it. They spend half the semester on the road anyway...how do they stay eligible then? If he is ineligible, it is not definitely because he is not in Tucson. And I would be surprised if he was ineligible...because, then, why not hire an agent?

[EVCat]

Athletic Department has tutors, and every test on file. Apparently the Greeks do too.

I signed up for an Anthro 100 class that when I showed up was full of Greeks and athletes.

Class was maybe 1/3rd full after the first day.

Same with an astronomy class I took. Out of 100 seats in class, there was maybe 8 there on the first Friday. I never showed up Friday after that.

There are also "Student Brokers" who arrange for everything for a student, paid by mom and dad's dime. They sub-contract school work (papers, online classes, etc) to people who do that for a living. Really. Athletes very rarely are involved in this as most brokers/paper writers are not really into seeing their name on Sportscenter with half the team threatening their lives. But a number of Greeks and other well positioned students have used these services, with the really elite parents of fuck-ups paying $10s of thousands a semester to a broker to simply make sure their kid gets a degree and, oh...bail him out of jail occasionally.

Then there are the classes designed for this...I took a "History of Sports in Society" class where prof told us day one the lowest grade you could get in the class is a C. If you wrote the midterm paper, you got a B, then you could take the final and an 80% would combine with the paper (not graded) to give you an A. There was more than one athlete in that class. It was at 8 am in McKale. I came the first day, the day I turned in my paper for midterm, and the final...and got an A. Attended 3 times. There were people I saw the first day that I saw for the paper hand in class or the final, not both (take the B), or that never showed again (I doubt they dropped).

I also have known of students taking full online course loads while travelling. Log in for a live chat with the prof, turn in your paper, take the tests at a Kaplan, and you are good. My nephew got his Masters from USC in Aerospace Engineering without stepping foot on campus one single day.

[Merkin]

My youngest brother had a class with Sean Elliott.

During the final, my brother said that Elliott showed up late, went to the professor, said something to him, then left.

We figured it was pretty much: "I'm mutha frickin' Sean Elliott"

[PHXCATS]

Culture problem? Is the environment really that bad that kids will leave when they likely shouldn't? Or has Miller recruited the kids with poor decision making?

Something is definitely going on. Hopefully this is enough of a shock for Miller to take a hard look at how things could evolve.

It's a domino effect with a bunch of 18- and 19-year-olds guys. Nothing more, nothing less. This generation is instant gratification, materialistic, very impressionable, and have short attention spans. Some more so than others, but those are traits they have been socialized with, it is what it is. You see your buddies and teammates jetting, you see what is out there and how much money could be made, you take the leap. Rawle sees himself better than Kobi (he was) and goes, shit, I want a piece of that and if Kobi can do it, I sure as hell can.

Yup...this happened in 2001 as well. Everyone left, and Jason Gardner really, really, seriously considered, and may have even entered without an agent and did that whole thing, knowing full well he was not draft material. Michael Wright got caught up in that insanity...he ended up eeking out a good living, and he wasn't going to suddenly be able to jump over a deck of cards, but that was still an era where players only left early if they were going to get NBA guarantees. When Loren Woods and RJ and then even sophomore Gilbert Arenas declared, there was definitely a sense of "I play with that guy everyday...if he is good enough, I am good enough."

Think of any social situation where you are young and around alpha types who are all going to do something big. You start to figure out how you might be able to join in if it is something cool...and declaring for the NBA draft certainly has a cache among other people their age. It isn't logical or rational...but it definitely happens.

Sorry but I dont buy it. If it happens once I would buy it but it happens at Arizona more often than other Tier 1 and Tier 2 schools except Kentucky and all those guys get drafted unlike Arizona guys and perform well in the association.

[EVCat]

Then what is your explanation? I'm not sure what there is to "buy" here.

I would say if you actually pulled the lens back and looked at every program and the level of ranking the players entered the program at and used that to compare apples to apples, we are no different. We just ignore when a Zeus, who was expected to be a short timer, stays 4, or BASH, expected to possibly be a one and done, stays 3. We only pay attention to the losses. Hell...Gabe York was an ELITE recruit. What...the #2 SG in the nation?

And at this point, we have only lost one player who could have come back and played (Lauri) and he is a lottery pick. Kobi was transferring or leaving...he wasn't coming back as an elite recruit with some pro basketball buzz to play 5 minutes a game.

[PHXCATS]

Then what is your explanation? I'm not sure what there is to "buy" here.

I would say if you actually pulled the lens back and looked at every program and the level of ranking the players entered the program at and used that to compare apples to apples, we are no different. We just ignore when a Zeus, who was expected to be a short timer, stays 4, or BASH, expected to possibly be a one and done, stays 3. We only pay attention to the losses.

And at this point, we have only lost one player who could have come back and played (Lauri) and he is a lottery pick. Kobi was transferring or leaving...he wasn't coming back as an elite recruit with some pro basketball buzz to play 5 minutes a game.

Zues hasnt done anything in the association nor has Nick Johnson or Grant Jerrett or Brandon Ashley. The entire 2011 class left early and no one has done anything in the nba worth noting.

If you have guys leaving early who do well in the nba thats awesome. When guys leave early and dont that is really bad.

I am hoping bringing in Romar helps with the culture issues with Arizona Basketball.

[Spaceman Spiff]

Then what is your explanation? I'm not sure what there is to "buy" here.

I would say if you actually pulled the lens back and looked at every program and the level of ranking the players entered the program at and used that to compare apples to apples, we are no different. We just ignore when a Zeus, who was expected to be a short timer, stays 4, or BASH, expected to possibly be a one and done, stays 3. We only pay attention to the losses.

And at this point, we have only lost one player who could have come back and played (Lauri) and he is a lottery pick. Kobi was transferring or leaving...he wasn't coming back as an elite recruit with some pro basketball buzz to play 5 minutes a game.

Zues hasnt done anything in the association nor has Nick Johnson or Grant Jerrett or Brandon Ashley. The entire 2011 class left early and no one has done anything in the nba worth noting.

If you have guys leaving early who do well in the nba thats awesome. When guys leave early and dont that is really bad.

I am hoping bringing in Romar helps with the culture issues with Arizona Basketball.

Stop. Plenty of guys from other schools leave early and don't see NBA success. Kentucky is supposedly the NBA factory. Dakari Johnson, Aaron Harrison, Marquis Teague, Doron Lamb, Marcus Lee, Kyle Wiltjer, those guys left either for another school or for the draft and have seen limited or no NBA success.

Heck, Duke has guys like Jeter and Thornton flaming out and leaving in the last two years. The complete lack of perspective vs other powers is crazy to me. Just being a top 20 recruit is not an automatic ticket.

[PHXCATS]

Then what is your explanation? I'm not sure what there is to "buy" here.

I would say if you actually pulled the lens back and looked at every program and the level of ranking the players entered the program at and used that to compare apples to apples, we are no different. We just ignore when a Zeus, who was expected to be a short timer, stays 4, or BASH, expected to possibly be a one and done, stays 3. We only pay attention to the losses.

And at this point, we have only lost one player who could have come back and played (Lauri) and he is a lottery pick. Kobi was transferring or leaving...he wasn't coming back as an elite recruit with some pro basketball buzz to play 5 minutes a game.

Zues hasnt done anything in the association nor has Nick Johnson or Grant Jerrett or Brandon Ashley. The entire 2011 class left early and no one has done anything in the nba worth noting.

If you have guys leaving early who do well in the nba thats awesome. When guys leave early and dont that is really bad.

I am hoping bringing in Romar helps with the culture issues with Arizona Basketball.

Stop. Plenty of guys from other schools leave early and don't see NBA success. Kentucky is supposedly the NBA factory. Dakari Johnson, Aaron Harrison, Marquis Teague, Doron Lamb, Marcus Lee, Kyle Wiltjer, those guys left either for another school or for the draft and have seen limited or no NBA success.

Heck, Duke has guys like Jeter and Thornton flaming out and leaving in the last two years. The complete lack of perspective vs other powers is crazy to me. Just being a top 20 recruit is not an automatic ticket.

It happens more at Arizona and Arizona has less success than those schools and those schools have FAR more NBA success.

But you are right, with all our final fours and national titles and nba super stars under Miller no reason to be concerned.