Who's staying? Who's going?

ChooChooCat · Post by **ChooChooCat** » Sun May 21, 2017 5:18 am

zonagrad wrote:
ChooChooCat wrote:
dcZONAfan wrote:
ChooChooCat wrote:
PennZona20 wrote:Get Rawle back and this team is preseason top 5.

Missing post depth (thanks Chance for this year) and obviously a high leve PG but other than that this team seems pretty stacked if Rawle comes back.
I mean we have post depth, just a matter of how Pinder and Lee performs. PG a much larger concern to me than any other weakness.
Can I ask those who have a better idea, whether they think Lee can actually provide meaningful minutes his frosh year? Chance certainly didn't, so do we think Lee is further ahead in his development than Chance was coming into college?

It feels like our post depth is definitely lacking. Whether that ends up a major problem we won't know. I will say that having Rawle back would be huge as I believe he can be a difference maker for both offensive and defensive rebounding, something we will desperately need with Dusan playing so many minutes next year (fuck the last 7 words of that sentence depress me so very much).
Comanche rarely played hard and more importantly didn't listen much, especially his freshman year. Playing hard and listening aren't issues Lee has, so he certainly has a chance to make the rotation in the post.
I wouldn't question Comanche's effort, it's just that I don't think he knew what playing hard and really battling are all about. Some guys have it. Some don't. Certain players just have that motor and inner drive to battle more on position, possession, etc... A lot of that comes from playing against tough competition your whole life and trial by fire. My best guess is that Comanche was always the best player on the floor during his formative years because he played against inferior competition and really didn't have to battle against better players in practice or in games. Things came easy, up until the point he was hit smack in the face by college basketball and the reality that he needed a ton of work set in.

I thought over a four year career he had tremendous potential. In fact, I expected his college career to resemble that of Channing Frye's. But Comanche never got a taste for the dirty work required in college basketball. He needed to learn to embrace the grind and the one on one battles in the paint. If Comanche had the drive and determination of a guy like Pinder, he could've been an all-conference player during his career. I don't see his career leading to anything substantial in the professional ranks. If he couldn't distinguish himself in two years in college, I don't know why he expects better results against guys in the pros who will no doubt have more experience and more drive to succeed.

I'm not even completely talking about during games. I'm talking about practice and merely working on his game consistently on his own time. I know us fans here were a bit taken back by Comanche's decision and were upset with it primarily because we hate seeing guys leave to go undrafted and he hasn't lived up to his Channing Frye potential yet and yada yada yada, but Arizona did not shed one tear about him leaving I can tell you that and it has every thing to do with not listening and not putting in effort.

gumby · Post by **gumby** » Sun May 21, 2017 11:20 am

Spaceman Spiff wrote:
ChooChooCat wrote:Some rumors going around that he's likely to come back now, but at the moment still hasn't told Arizona anything either way.
Well, fingers crossed, but as always, it's only final when it's final.

At which point: It is what it is.

gumby · Post by **gumby** » Sun May 21, 2017 11:23 am

So this is great news, though I hope Rawle gets everything he wants. Still great news, and best of luck to Rawle.

az91 · Post by **az91** » Sun May 21, 2017 1:02 pm

gumby wrote:So this is great news, though I hope Rawle gets everything he wants. Still great news, and best of luck to Rawle.

It will be great news if/when Rawle says he is returning. Let's hope he confirms soon.

Main Event · Post by **Main Event** » Sun May 21, 2017 2:39 pm

It's time

SirClinks · Post by **SirClinks** » Sun May 21, 2017 2:49 pm

Wow that's huge! He will be a beast next year.

3goggles · Post by **3goggles** » Sun May 21, 2017 3:05 pm

Hell yeah bitches 17-18 is going to be lit like Dubai.

ASUHATER! · Post by **ASUHATER!** » Sun May 21, 2017 3:16 pm

If only Comanche and Kobi came back too then we'd be unstoppable.

Merkin · Post by **Merkin** » Sun May 21, 2017 3:19 pm

ASUHATER! wrote:If only Comanche and Kobi came back too then we'd be unstoppable.

Not an insider, but would say 0 chance. Kobi signed with an agent, and Chance left school. Kid didn't like college.

az91 · Post by **az91** » Sun May 21, 2017 3:23 pm

ASUHATER! wrote:If only Comanche and Kobi came back too then we'd be unstoppable.

I think losing Comanche was addition by subtraction.

84Cat · Post by **84Cat** » Sun May 21, 2017 3:26 pm

Good decision Rawle!

NYCat · Post by **NYCat** » Sun May 21, 2017 3:30 pm

Beachcat97 · Post by **Beachcat97** » Sun May 21, 2017 3:36 pm

Huge. Savage life for one more year.

PJC
AT
RA
DA
DR

catgrad97 · Post by **catgrad97** » Sun May 21, 2017 4:01 pm

Big add. Way to see the light RA.

But unless Trier's going to magically transform into a PG, still need an upgrade at the position though.

ChooChooCat · Post by **ChooChooCat** » Sun May 21, 2017 4:02 pm

Spiff called it.

A total 180 from his position entering this process that's for sure. So glad he stayed open and is coming back.

Alieberman · Post by **Alieberman** » Sun May 21, 2017 4:03 pm

Thank goodness, next year should be awesome

HiCat · Post by **HiCat** » Sun May 21, 2017 4:03 pm

Wise decision. Going to be fun to watch.

NYCat · Post by **NYCat** » Sun May 21, 2017 4:05 pm

Bangkok Wildcat · Post by **Bangkok Wildcat** » Sun May 21, 2017 4:42 pm

So frickin' stoked!!!! GREATEST news, along with Zo, in the off season. Bear Down Rawle #SavageLife

PS. Is it wrong that this news gave me 'wood'??? Lol. So damn stoked!!!!!!!

CalStateTempe · Post by **CalStateTempe** » Sun May 21, 2017 5:11 pm

Yes!!!!!!!!!!

I'm on cloud 9!!!! Wtg Rawle! Thank you thank you thank you.

rgdeuce · Post by **rgdeuce** » Sun May 21, 2017 5:11 pm

Awesome news. 1st team all conference player next year. Easily.

Trier's obviously gonna lead the team in scoring, but Rawle may end up being our best all around player next year. I think most here would agree that he's going to beast next year. Continuing off where he left off last season, the regular frosh to soph jump, the experience/info/feedback he got from the combine, the experience playing in a field w elite college players/pros in the combine, and the hunger to do what he has to reach the goal he was told he was shy of. Damn.

rgdeuce · Post by **rgdeuce** » Sun May 21, 2017 5:57 pm

dcZONAfan wrote:
ChooChooCat wrote:
PennZona20 wrote:Get Rawle back and this team is preseason top 5.

Missing post depth (thanks Chance for this year) and obviously a high leve PG but other than that this team seems pretty stacked if Rawle comes back.
I mean we have post depth, just a matter of how Pinder and Lee performs. PG a much larger concern to me than any other weakness.
Can I ask those who have a better idea, whether they think Lee can actually provide meaningful minutes his frosh year? Chance certainly didn't, so do we think Lee is further ahead in his development than Chance was coming into college?

It feels like our post depth is definitely lacking. Whether that ends up a major problem we won't know. I will say that having Rawle back would be huge as I believe he can be a difference maker for both offensive and defensive rebounding, something we will desperately need with Dusan playing so many minutes next year (fuck the last 7 words of that sentence depress me so very much).

Yes. He's an excellent rebounder and a fairly solid defender. He has the reputation of having a motor and a half, which is nice with a guy w decent length to guard 4s. All that bodes well for the PT, especially when you consider Miller will need two backups for Ristic (matchup problems, 15 min of rest a game, foul issues) and Ayton (likely prone to pick up a lot fouls as a frosh and the needed rest). I dont see big minutes but I think he gets in most games and Miller makes sure he stays sharp so he can be a big help in the games where the shit hits the fan w foul trouble. Our two backups are basically gonna be two Pinders. Could be worse off, and we got crazy firepower on the wings so we can take the scoring hit and their penetration and the defense needed to stop them will open up a lot of easy dunks and lay ins for those types of guys.

Longhorned · Post by **Longhorned** » Sun May 21, 2017 6:43 pm

ChooChooCat wrote: PG a much larger concern to me than any other weakness.

Trier has to play point guard because nobody other than PJC can put in real minutes at the position next year. In doing so, Trier will beat out PJC for starter minutes, just like Allen did. That will make things thin on the wing.

Spaceman Spiff · Post by **Spaceman Spiff** » Sun May 21, 2017 6:46 pm

rgdeuce wrote:Awesome news. 1st team all conference player next year. Easily.

Trier's obviously gonna lead the team in scoring, but Rawle may end up being our best all around player next year. I think most here would agree that he's going to beast next year. Continuing off where he left off last season, the regular frosh to soph jump, the experience/info/feedback he got from the combine, the experience playing in a field w elite college players/pros in the combine, and the hunger to do what he has to reach the goal he was told he was shy of. Damn.

I think Rawle will wind up bringing more than Trier. Vs Ayton, I don't know bc Ayton is so talented, but Rawle will be a better defender and rebounder and as good on offense.

BigSkyCatinMT · Post by **BigSkyCatinMT** » Sun May 21, 2017 7:20 pm

Think I'm the only one that thought that Chance had great progression playing behind Dusan and Lauri. Would have liked to see him comeback, and spend a year behind Ayton. That said, he chose to move on, so that's fine. He learned a lot of footwork from Dusan and Lauri. I wish hinm the best.

Alkins, very glad he returns. Love him, even if plays like a fullback at times. One of my favorites ever.

BigSkyCatinMT · Post by **BigSkyCatinMT** » Sun May 21, 2017 7:22 pm

Longhorned wrote:
ChooChooCat wrote: PG a much larger concern to me than any other weakness.
Trier has to play point guard because nobody other than PJC can put in real minutes at the position next year. In doing so, Trier will beat out PJC for starter minutes, just like Allen did. That will make things thin on the wing.

I think Barcello may surprise, but maybe not. Think he is underrated a bit.

HiCat · Post by **HiCat** » Mon May 22, 2017 7:13 am

BigSkyCatinMT wrote:
Longhorned wrote:
ChooChooCat wrote: PG a much larger concern to me than any other weakness.
Trier has to play point guard because nobody other than PJC can put in real minutes at the position next year. In doing so, Trier will beat out PJC for starter minutes, just like Allen did. That will make things thin on the wing.
I think Barcello may surprise, but maybe not. Think he is underrated a bit.

My thoughts too. Just wondering though, not seen him play, so blind speculation on my part. But who knows...maybe he'll be the next TJ.

Puerco · Post by **Puerco** » Mon May 22, 2017 8:00 am

Spaceman Spiff wrote:
rgdeuce wrote:Awesome news. 1st team all conference player next year. Easily.

Trier's obviously gonna lead the team in scoring, but Rawle may end up being our best all around player next year. I think most here would agree that he's going to beast next year. Continuing off where he left off last season, the regular frosh to soph jump, the experience/info/feedback he got from the combine, the experience playing in a field w elite college players/pros in the combine, and the hunger to do what he has to reach the goal he was told he was shy of. Damn.
I think Rawle will wind up bringing more than Trier. Vs Ayton, I don't know bc Ayton is so talented, but Rawle will be a better defender and rebounder and as good on offense.

Tough to predict that. If you compare Trier's ORtg vs. DRtg you have 125:101, or a +24 advantage per hundred possessions. Rawle is indeed better on defense, but just barely. Trier is much better on offense. Rawle's numbers are 111:99 for a +14 advantage.

Bottom line? Rawle needs to turn into the lockdown defender Miller's team always seems to have, and he needs to improve a ton on offense if he's going to have a more positive impact on the team. (EDIT:I mean a more positive impact than Trier of course!)

What surprised me when I was going through the number was just how good of a rebounder Trier was. Almost matched Rawle in that dept.

Spaceman Spiff · Post by **Spaceman Spiff** » Mon May 22, 2017 8:38 am

Puerco wrote:
Spaceman Spiff wrote:
rgdeuce wrote:Awesome news. 1st team all conference player next year. Easily.

Trier's obviously gonna lead the team in scoring, but Rawle may end up being our best all around player next year. I think most here would agree that he's going to beast next year. Continuing off where he left off last season, the regular frosh to soph jump, the experience/info/feedback he got from the combine, the experience playing in a field w elite college players/pros in the combine, and the hunger to do what he has to reach the goal he was told he was shy of. Damn.
I think Rawle will wind up bringing more than Trier. Vs Ayton, I don't know bc Ayton is so talented, but Rawle will be a better defender and rebounder and as good on offense.
Tough to predict that. If you compare Trier's ORtg vs. DRtg you have 125:101, or a +24 advantage per hundred possessions. Rawle is indeed better on defense, but just barely. Trier is much better on offense. Rawle's numbers are 111:99 for a +14 advantage.

Bottom line? Rawle needs to turn into the lockdown defender Miller's team always seems to have, and he needs to improve a ton on offense if he's going to have a more positive impact on the team. (EDIT:I mean a more positive impact than Trier of course!)

What surprised me when I was going through the number was just how good of a rebounder Trier was. Almost matched Rawle in that dept.

It's a projection, but I thought Rawle made dramatic strides on D throughout the year. He was behind at the beginning of the year but slid into being a plus defender by the end of the year. By this point, Trier is probably who he is on D, but I think Rawle has room for growth.

On O, I saw a lot of the same improvements. Rawle had issues with forcing it and getting quick whistles for charges at the beginning of the year. He was much better at picking his spots by the end of the year.

We'll see.

gumby · Post by **gumby** » Mon May 22, 2017 8:42 am

Great news. Experienced, effective perimeter. They do need to get after it defensively, with Allen gone. Proven scorer in Ristic. Ayton is the wild card. Depth looks good, too.

PennZona20 · Post by **PennZona20** » Mon May 22, 2017 10:28 am

I think w Akot reclassifying that leaves PG as our only weakness. Hope PJC can step up or Trier can fill in.

rgdeuce · Post by **rgdeuce** » Mon May 22, 2017 10:40 am

Spaceman Spiff wrote:
It's a projection, but I thought Rawle made dramatic strides on D throughout the year. He was behind at the beginning of the year but slid into being a plus defender by the end of the year. By this point, Trier is probably who he is on D, but I think Rawle has room for growth.

On O, I saw a lot of the same improvements. Rawle had issues with forcing it and getting quick whistles for charges at the beginning of the year. He was much better at picking his spots by the end of the year.

We'll see.

That's how I see things too. From what I read in terms of feedback Rawle got back, his defense was well complimented by the NBA people. You have to assume that is something he will take pride in and know execs and scouts will continue to be looking for. Trier's D is crutched by inconsistency in desire, whereas I see Rawle as a guy as a full-effort guy who just needs experience and reps to cut down on some of the mistakes. Like you said, the difference from November to Feb/March was night and day. Goes for the offense too, like you said. From the UCLA game at Pauley on, Rawle was our most consistent player last season.

Merkin · Post by **Merkin** » Mon May 22, 2017 10:43 am

Trier can only help himself to a higher draft pick by playing a lot of PG minutes as long as he stays away from hero ball.

PJC is still short and can't shoot over anyone and can't defend anyone taller than himself, or defend against pretty much anyone for that matter. Hopefully he is working on lateral quickness so other guards won't blow right on by him. That's about the only thing he can work on to improve himself.

Spaceman Spiff · Post by **Spaceman Spiff** » Mon May 22, 2017 11:22 am

rgdeuce wrote:
Spaceman Spiff wrote:
It's a projection, but I thought Rawle made dramatic strides on D throughout the year. He was behind at the beginning of the year but slid into being a plus defender by the end of the year. By this point, Trier is probably who he is on D, but I think Rawle has room for growth.

On O, I saw a lot of the same improvements. Rawle had issues with forcing it and getting quick whistles for charges at the beginning of the year. He was much better at picking his spots by the end of the year.

We'll see.
That's how I see things too. From what I read in terms of feedback Rawle got back, his defense was well complimented by the NBA people. You have to assume that is something he will take pride in and know execs and scouts will continue to be looking for. Trier's D is crutched by inconsistency in desire, whereas I see Rawle as a guy as a full-effort guy who just needs experience and reps to cut down on some of the mistakes. Like you said, the difference from November to Feb/March was night and day. Goes for the offense too, like you said. From the UCLA game at Pauley on, Rawle was our most consistent player last season.

Rawle has better tools than Zo on D as well. He has good wingspan, a thick body and good athleticism. Zo has decent lateral speed, but is a little behind Rawle there and nowhere near the strength Rawle has.

Rawle really sorted out his footwork as the season went on. Early season, his closeouts were messy, but he really sharpened up. I'd believe the NBA process made it clear to him that continued improvement on D is a big ticket to the league. The only defensive tool he doesn't have is being a few inches taller, but his strength compensates. No one's itching to try to post Rawle up.

Having Rawle, Randolph and Akot on the wing should be a better defensive lineup than 2016-17, even with Kadeem's loss. Add in Ayton at the rim and I like our D ceiling next year.

PennZona20 · Post by **PennZona20** » Mon May 22, 2017 11:32 am

Losing Kadeem will certainly hurt, but he was hurt for about 25% of the season (aka not at full strength) so I agree Randolph , Akot, and improved perimeter D by Alkins and Zo will actually make our D better when it comes to penetration and Ayton, while not Bamba or Deandre Jordan, will make our run protection much better than Lauri did. Dusan is what he is but Lee will help as well as its rumored he's an all out effort guy on D. Basically Pinder w more talent.

Longhorned · Post by **Longhorned** » Mon May 22, 2017 6:20 pm

Longhorned wrote:
Trier has to play point guard because nobody other than PJC can put in real minutes at the position next year.... That will make things thin on the wing.

This post from this morning hasn't aged well.

Bangkok Wildcat · Post by **Bangkok Wildcat** » Mon May 22, 2017 7:35 pm

Longhorned wrote:
Longhorned wrote:
Trier has to play point guard because nobody other than PJC can put in real minutes at the position next year.... That will make things thin on the wing.
This post from this morning hasn't aged well.

Lol, in these crazy days, not much ages well!

Spaceman Spiff · Post by **Spaceman Spiff** » Tue May 23, 2017 7:34 am

Longhorned wrote:
Longhorned wrote:
Trier has to play point guard because nobody other than PJC can put in real minutes at the position next year.... That will make things thin on the wing.
This post from this morning hasn't aged well.

Wait until we have a few major injuries, suspensions and Akot goes to Australia. Everything that is old will be new again.

zonagrad · Post by **zonagrad** » Tue May 23, 2017 7:56 am

Spaceman Spiff wrote:
Longhorned wrote:
Longhorned wrote:
Trier has to play point guard because nobody other than PJC can put in real minutes at the position next year.... That will make things thin on the wing.
This post from this morning hasn't aged well.
Wait until we have a few major injuries, suspensions and Akot goes to Australia. Everything that is old will be new again.

Lots of mine fields out there during the offseason as Trier's troubles can attest. The trip to Spain should be beneficial for our newcomers and team chemistry barring any injuries. Lord knows we're over our quota for dislocated fingers and high ankle sprains the last few years. Depth should help handle any setbacks. Ayton, Trier & Alkins staying healthy and eligible the entire season is the key.

azcat49 · Post by **azcat49** » Tue May 23, 2017 7:58 am

Is EVERY freshman expected on the Spain trip?

EVCat · Post by **EVCat** » Tue May 23, 2017 9:52 am

The Spain trip is so amazingly timed for this team. Used to look to the once-every-four-years foreign trip with Lute's teams to convert in big postseasons, and they usually did. Those teams just had a little more on the court together.

With so many newcomers, it becomes so much more important...unless they learn they hate each other. But chemistry has been good on this team (some tried to invent a Trier/Alkins feud where none existed) and this trip will help.

What will also help is having some legit returners like PJC (whether you like his game or not, he is a Senior), Trier, and Alkins, as well as Dusan, who are clearly starters and upper classmen (or returners...hell, a Soph is a rarity these days) to guide the new comers, and to teach them how this system works. Those guys are clearly the guys, and their impact on the newcomers will be felt greatly in a foreign trip. Teach the young bucks what A Player's Program is, get your game up, and come back ready to go from day 1.

whatisee · Post by **whatisee** » Tue May 23, 2017 11:29 am

The only serious question that needs to be addressed is if this team can beat the Zone?

Spaceman Spiff · Post by **Spaceman Spiff** » Tue May 23, 2017 11:32 am

whatisee wrote:The only serious question that needs to be addressed is if this team can beat the Zone?

In some games or all games?

EVCat · Post by **EVCat** » Tue May 23, 2017 11:47 am

Spaceman Spiff wrote:
whatisee wrote:The only serious question that needs to be addressed is if this team can beat the Zone?
In some games or all games?

Only if they start playing it. Every game. Amiright?

EOCT · Post by **EOCT** » Tue May 23, 2017 12:13 pm

The PG subject.

A few thoughts. First, PJC. I'm not convinced he can't give us good minutes, limited or not. Dude has heart, as evidenced by halving his projected high ankle sprain rehab somehow. He came back without missing a beat---unexpected so from that type of injury. His distribution skills were money right away, witness Dusan suddenly seeing a lot of balls. The team was re-energized.

Second, we haven't seen Barcello yet. Spain and our early practices will show us whether his game translates.

Third----here's where I'll really piss everyone off. Rawle. Sure, sure he doesn't know PG, and as many have opined "doesn't have the handles/ball-control skills. Really?

Where is this guy? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cujiNu2sab4" target="_blank

Yes, HS D on him, but high level.

Longhorned · Post by **Longhorned** » Tue May 23, 2017 12:37 pm

EOCT wrote:The PG subject.

A few thoughts. First, PJC. I'm not convinced he can't give us good minutes, limited or not. Dude has heart, as evidenced by halving his projected high ankle sprain rehab somehow. He came back without missing a beat---unexpected so from that type of injury. His distribution skills were money right away, witness Dusan suddenly seeing a lot of balls. The team was re-energized.

Second, we haven't seen Barcello yet. Spain and our early practices will show us whether his game translates.

Third----here's where I'll really piss everyone off. Rawle. Sure, sure he doesn't know PG, and as many have opined "doesn't have the handles/ball-control skills. Really?

Where is this guy? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cujiNu2sab4" target="_blank

Yes, HS D on him, but high level.

Now you've really pissed me off, EOCT! Rawle can X-over good defenders and score off the dribble, but the longer the ball is in his hands, the higher your blood rises until you start flailing your arms around helplessly on the sofa because you know he's about to get it swatted away or lose it off a defender's foot.

Spaceman Spiff · Post by **Spaceman Spiff** » Tue May 23, 2017 12:58 pm

EOCT wrote:The PG subject.

A few thoughts. First, PJC. I'm not convinced he can't give us good minutes, limited or not. Dude has heart, as evidenced by halving his projected high ankle sprain rehab somehow. He came back without missing a beat---unexpected so from that type of injury. His distribution skills were money right away, witness Dusan suddenly seeing a lot of balls. The team was re-energized.

Second, we haven't seen Barcello yet. Spain and our early practices will show us whether his game translates.

Third----here's where I'll really piss everyone off. Rawle. Sure, sure he doesn't know PG, and as many have opined "doesn't have the handles/ball-control skills. Really?

Where is this guy? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cujiNu2sab4" target="_blank

Yes, HS D on him, but high level.

I think Parker can give decent minutes. He is unquestionably a rotation guy on a top team. The arguments about Parker are almost exclusively about whether he is starter material. I've long said he can play his role well enough for us to achieve great things. Where people get frustrated is that we want a starting PG to push us to thse great things. PJC is not that guy, that leader.

Barcello may surprise. I'm not counting on it freshman year, though.

I would love it if Rawle or Trier flashes combo skill allowing us to run lineups where they are the primary ballhandler. Again, both could, but the question is whether they will. Now that we have Randolph, Akot and Smith off the bench, the opportunity for one of them sliding to PG is definitely there.

EOCT · Post by **EOCT** » Tue May 23, 2017 1:32 pm

Spaceman Spiff wrote:
EOCT wrote:The PG subject.

A few thoughts. First, PJC. I'm not convinced he can't give us good minutes, limited or not. Dude has heart, as evidenced by halving his projected high ankle sprain rehab somehow. He came back without missing a beat---unexpected so from that type of injury. His distribution skills were money right away, witness Dusan suddenly seeing a lot of balls. The team was re-energized.

Second, we haven't seen Barcello yet. Spain and our early practices will show us whether his game translates.

Third----here's where I'll really piss everyone off. Rawle. Sure, sure he doesn't know PG, and as many have opined "doesn't have the handles/ball-control skills. Really?

Where is this guy? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cujiNu2sab4" target="_blank

Yes, HS D on him, but high level.
I think Parker can give decent minutes. He is unquestionably a rotation guy on a top team. The arguments about Parker are almost exclusively about whether he is starter material. I've long said he can play his role well enough for us to achieve great things. Where people get frustrated is that we want a starting PG to push us to thse great things. PJC is not that guy, that leader.

Barcello may surprise. I'm not counting on it freshman year, though.

I would love it if Rawle or Trier flashes combo skill allowing us to run lineups where they are the primary ballhandler. Again, both could, but the question is whether they will. Now that we have Randolph, Akot and Smith off the bench, the opportunity for one of them sliding to PG is definitely there.

Thanks, Spiff. Agree completely "...we want a starting PG to push us to those great things".

LH "Now you've really pissed me off, EOCT! Rawle can X-over good defenders and score off the dribble, but the longer the ball is in his hands, the higher your blood rises until you start flailing your arms around helplessly on the sofa because you know he's about to get it swatted away or lose it off a defender's foot."

LH, I see this so clearly. Now I know why the pick-up kids I play with yell at me so much!

Puerco · Post by **Puerco** » Tue May 23, 2017 2:24 pm

Spaceman Spiff wrote:
rgdeuce wrote:
Spaceman Spiff wrote:
It's a projection, but I thought Rawle made dramatic strides on D throughout the year. He was behind at the beginning of the year but slid into being a plus defender by the end of the year. By this point, Trier is probably who he is on D, but I think Rawle has room for growth.

On O, I saw a lot of the same improvements. Rawle had issues with forcing it and getting quick whistles for charges at the beginning of the year. He was much better at picking his spots by the end of the year.

We'll see.
That's how I see things too. From what I read in terms of feedback Rawle got back, his defense was well complimented by the NBA people. You have to assume that is something he will take pride in and know execs and scouts will continue to be looking for. Trier's D is crutched by inconsistency in desire, whereas I see Rawle as a guy as a full-effort guy who just needs experience and reps to cut down on some of the mistakes. Like you said, the difference from November to Feb/March was night and day. Goes for the offense too, like you said. From the UCLA game at Pauley on, Rawle was our most consistent player last season.
Rawle has better tools than Zo on D as well. He has good wingspan, a thick body and good athleticism. Zo has decent lateral speed, but is a little behind Rawle there and nowhere near the strength Rawle has.

Rawle really sorted out his footwork as the season went on. Early season, his closeouts were messy, but he really sharpened up. I'd believe the NBA process made it clear to him that continued improvement on D is a big ticket to the league. The only defensive tool he doesn't have is being a few inches taller, but his strength compensates. No one's itching to try to post Rawle up.

Having Rawle, Randolph and Akot on the wing should be a better defensive lineup than 2016-17, even with Kadeem's loss. Add in Ayton at the rim and I like our D ceiling next year.

If you guys are right it could be a special year. I didn't get to see enough games to really judge Rawle's improvement on D. I like what he brings all around an awful lot, but beating Zo's value will be a tall order.

whatisee · Post by **whatisee** » Tue May 23, 2017 2:47 pm

Spaceman Spiff wrote:
whatisee wrote:The only serious question that needs to be addressed is if this team can beat the Zone?
In some games or all games?

All games...a little consistency goes a long way. Zone teams have been a Sean Miller weakness

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