let's talk '17

[Longhorned]

[prh]

I'm not sold on that Duke team being better than us. Let them have the #1 but that could go south for them.

[PennZona20]

Duke has the most talented parts for sure. Not sure they are the best team though. A lot of high maintenance kids on that team.

College basketball is a team sport. Villanova didn't have the most NBA guys two years ago and UNC didn't last year. You need a blend of veteran and super talented youngsters and I think we have the perfect blend. Duke may be favored against us in a title game but I think our TEAM would be favored to get there.

[NYCat]

Jackson-Cartwright < Duval
Trier > Allen
Alkins >(?) Trent Jr
Ayton < Bagley
Ristic ? Carter

UA bench: Akot, Randolph, Lee, Barcello, Smith > (Akot, Randolph alone make it better)
Duke bench: Bolden, White, DeLaurier, O'Connell, Tucker

Really the only significant leg up Duke has is at the point, which happens to be the most important position. But Arizona has a better bench with Akot & Randolph.

[Main Event]

Duke begged Bolden to reconsider transferring to put him back on the bench for Bagley lol That should be funny

[loomer]

That's definitely a big question mark for every K coached team these days. The 2015 team had the same questions on defense until they turned it on late in the season. This team doesn't have a leader like Quinn Cook to lead those young guys though.

Jackson-Cartwright < Duval
Trier > Allen
Alkins >(?) Trent Jr
Ayton < Bagley
Ristic ? Carter

UA bench: Akot, Randolph, Lee, Barcello, Smith > (Akot, Randolph alone make it better)
Duke bench: Bolden, White, DeLaurier, O'Connell, Tucker

Really the only significant leg up Duke has is at the point, which happens to be the most important position. But Arizona has a better bench with Akot & Randolph.

I'll take Duke's starting 5, but our bench is so much better that it tends to even out.

Duke begged Bolden to reconsider transferring to put him back on the bench for Bagley lol That should be funny

If he sulks like he did last year then they are in trouble. Not much leadership on this Duke team.

[EOCT]

Jackson-Cartwright < Duval
Trier > Allen
Alkins >(?) Trent Jr
Ayton < Bagley
Ristic ? Carter

UA bench: Akot, Randolph, Lee, Barcello, Smith > (Akot, Randolph alone make it better)
Duke bench: Bolden, White, DeLaurier, O'Connell, Tucker

Really the only significant leg up Duke has is at the point, which happens to be the most important position. But Arizona has a better bench with Akot & Randolph.

Duval is an amazing player, a League star in the future in my view.

[SunnyAZ]

What spacing concerns? Bagley/Carter/Bolden shot 28/119 (23%) combined for 3 last year. Their PG Trevon Duval is a career 17% 3point shooter

https://mobile.twitter.com/DraftExpress ... 5800521728

[Beachcat97]

Gimme Trier, Alkins, Akot, BR, and PJC. Best backcourt in the country. I respect Duke's guards, but I wouldn't trade them for ours.

[ChooChooCat]

Jackson-Cartwright < Duval
Trier > Allen
Alkins >(?) Trent Jr
Ayton < Bagley
Ristic ? Carter

UA bench: Akot, Randolph, Lee, Barcello, Smith > (Akot, Randolph alone make it better)
Duke bench: Bolden, White, DeLaurier, O'Connell, Tucker

Really the only significant leg up Duke has is at the point, which happens to be the most important position. But Arizona has a better bench with Akot & Randolph.

Duval is an amazing player, a League star in the future in my view.

Eh can't say I agree on the second part. I think he's certainly a NBA player, but I don't think point guards who can't shoot are destined for stardom.

[luteformayor2]

Im down to play Duke straight up in the tourney. We have a fully built team, they have a bunch of players. The last few championships have shown that the one-and-done classes are not guaranteed tourney killers. UNC and Villanova were well rounded teams and they beat recruiting classes just as good as this one.

[luteformayor2]

Not to mention, now that Grayson Allen has been recruited over, we should expect him at he next unite-the-right rally. He won't go softly into the night. Bolden definitely gonna transfer now also. Coach K really fucked him in the ass.

[Beachcat97]

Some are probably underestimating Duke here, but still, I think we'd knock them out in March.

[NYCat]

Please be Duke, I don't advocate to make any rivals stronger. We all hate Duke, but they're not rivals or inter conference rivals either.

Again, it won't be Duke. Why would he wait until 11 eastern to commit to an east coast school? Makes no sense.

But you said...

[RaisingArizona]

Bolden's not going to get all that much run IMO. I think the starting five will be Duval, Allen, Trent Jr., Bagley and Carter. Definitely the most talented team in the country on paper. Whether they will be better than Arizona or Michigan State remains to be seen.

[Beachcat97]

Please be Duke, I don't advocate to make any rivals stronger. We all hate Duke, but they're not rivals or inter conference rivals either.

Again, it won't be Duke. Why would he wait until 11 eastern to commit to an east coast school? Makes no sense.

But you said...

Totally. I was surprised.

[Spaceman Spiff]

Bolden's not going to get all that much run IMO. I think the starting five will be Duval, Allen, Trent Jr., Bagley and Carter. Definitely the most talented team in the country on paper. Whether they will be better than Arizona or Michigan State remains to be seen.

Bolden is the next Jeter.

Duke has a lot of talent, but it is young and raw. The shooting stats noted by Choo are real, but at the age Duke's players are, they have plenty of improvement room. How much they will is the question.

Hey, maybe we can get a 2001 rematch in a title game? I'd be down with that.

[ChooChooCat]

Bolden's not going to get all that much run IMO. I think the starting five will be Duval, Allen, Trent Jr., Bagley and Carter. Definitely the most talented team in the country on paper. Whether they will be better than Arizona or Michigan State remains to be seen.

I mean if Bolden stays (I'd be fucking furious about this Bagley situation if I were him as Duke begged him to stay when he wanted to leave) he's still in for plenty of PT off the bench as the first big off the bench. Will be interesting to see if he sticks it out this year or tells Coach K to go fly a kite.

[RaisingArizona]

I agree. He should be pissed. I suppose it depends on how much time Bagley sees at the three. If both he and Carter are exclusively 4/5s, how much time can Bolden really see? 15 minutes per game? That can't be palatable to a top 15 kid from a loaded class in year two.

[dcZONAfan]

Please be Duke, I don't advocate to make any rivals stronger. We all hate Duke, but they're not rivals or inter conference rivals either.

Again, it won't be Duke. Why would he wait until 11 eastern to commit to an east coast school? Makes no sense.

But you said...

Totally. I was surprised.

But that's the point. All you ever do is make statements presented as fact as though you have any clue about anything, which everyone knows you don't. This one is a shining example. He is NOT going to Duke!

95% of your posts are pointless and unnecessary. You should just lurk more, we'd certainly all be better off for it.

[Spaceman Spiff]

I agree. He should be pissed. I suppose it depends on how much time Bagley sees at the three. If both he and Carter are exclusively 4/5s, how much time can Bolden really see? 15 minutes per game? That can't be palatable to a top 15 kid from a loaded class in year two.

K has been pretty straightforward in recruiting over people. Giles over Jeter. Bagley over Bolden. Allen and Winslow over Matt Jones. It's a new day.

[CalStateTempe]

It has the potential for a special season for the cats given the robust talk of college bb here in august. Love it!

[ChooChooCat]

I agree. He should be pissed. I suppose it depends on how much time Bagley sees at the three. If both he and Carter are exclusively 4/5s, how much time can Bolden really see? 15 minutes per game? That can't be palatable to a top 15 kid from a loaded class in year two.

Chance Comanche got 18 minutes per game last year backing up solely the 5 spot. Certainly not what Bolden was probably expecting going into the year though that's for sure. Duke's bench is far from deep so I could easily see him getting more than Chance though in the Bagley playing the 3 scenario. Either way yeah Bolden got screwed.

[YoDeFoe]

I agree. He should be pissed. I suppose it depends on how much time Bagley sees at the three. If both he and Carter are exclusively 4/5s, how much time can Bolden really see? 15 minutes per game? That can't be palatable to a top 15 kid from a loaded class in year two.

Chance Comanche got 18 minutes per game last year backing up solely the 5 spot. Certainly not what Bolden was probably expecting going into the year though that's for sure. Duke's bench is far from deep so I could easily see him getting more than Chance though in the Bagley playing the 3 scenario. Either way yeah Bolden got screwed.

Why in the world would Bagley play the three for Duke at any point? To make room for Bolden to play along with him and Carter? So they can send shooters like Gary Trent Jr or Grayson Allen to the bench for a bunch of non-shooting bigs? The three is the one spot that Duke had depth at with Trent Jr., Allen, Tucker, and White. If Bagley gets 5min/g at the three spot I'll be stunned.

[ChooChooCat]

I agree. He should be pissed. I suppose it depends on how much time Bagley sees at the three. If both he and Carter are exclusively 4/5s, how much time can Bolden really see? 15 minutes per game? That can't be palatable to a top 15 kid from a loaded class in year two.

Chance Comanche got 18 minutes per game last year backing up solely the 5 spot. Certainly not what Bolden was probably expecting going into the year though that's for sure. Duke's bench is far from deep so I could easily see him getting more than Chance though in the Bagley playing the 3 scenario. Either way yeah Bolden got screwed.

Why in the world would Bagley play the three for Duke at any point? To make room for Bolden to play along with him and Carter? So they can send shooters like Gary Trent Jr or Grayson Allen to the bench for a bunch of non-shooting bigs? The three is the one spot that Duke had depth at with Trent Jr., Allen, Tucker, and White. If Bagley gets 5min/g at the three spot I'll be stunned.

Because Bagley can play any position on the court. Allen probably is your back up PG, unless you're convinced that kid whose second best offer was Eastern Kentucky is the best option at backup PG, so in all actuality Allen will have to slide over to play the 1, which means every one slides down a position. Also are you really expecting Jack White to get minutes on this team? Seriously? You could've at least said Connelly and then I'd consider buying it.

I'd be willing to put some cash on the Bagley playing 5 min/g at the 3 if you want. The bet goes null and void if Bolden does transfer though.

[Spaceman Spiff]

I agree. He should be pissed. I suppose it depends on how much time Bagley sees at the three. If both he and Carter are exclusively 4/5s, how much time can Bolden really see? 15 minutes per game? That can't be palatable to a top 15 kid from a loaded class in year two.

Chance Comanche got 18 minutes per game last year backing up solely the 5 spot. Certainly not what Bolden was probably expecting going into the year though that's for sure. Duke's bench is far from deep so I could easily see him getting more than Chance though in the Bagley playing the 3 scenario. Either way yeah Bolden got screwed.

Why in the world would Bagley play the three for Duke at any point? To make room for Bolden to play along with him and Carter? So they can send shooters like Gary Trent Jr or Grayson Allen to the bench for a bunch of non-shooting bigs? The three is the one spot that Duke had depth at with Trent Jr., Allen, Tucker, and White. If Bagley gets 5min/g at the three spot I'll be stunned.

Bagley likes the perimeter and showing diversity of skill. I wouldn't be shocked if Duke bows to that desire, at least letting him play outside/in a decent amount.

It's similar to Miller and Ayton. Ayton clearly sees himself as a perimeter threat, even though Miller will likely encourage him to be inside more. Those sort of debates are common with big time recruits. We started AG at the 3 until Ashley went down despite AG not being a stellar shooter.

[YoDeFoe]

Why in the world would Bagley play the three for Duke at any point? To make room for Bolden to play along with him and Carter? So they can send shooters like Gary Trent Jr or Grayson Allen to the bench for a bunch of non-shooting bigs? The three is the one spot that Duke has depth at with Trent Jr., Allen, Tucker, and White. If Bagley gets 5min/g at the three spot I'll be stunned.

Because Bagley can play any position on the court. Allen probably is your back up PG, unless you're convinced that kid whose second best offer was Eastern Kentucky is the best option at backup PG, so in all actuality Allen will have to slide over to play the 1, which means every one slides down a position. Also are you really expecting Jack White to get minutes on this team? Seriously? You could've at least said Connelly and then I'd consider buying it.

I'd be willing to put some cash on the Bagley playing 5 min/g at the 3 if you want. The bet goes null and void if Bolden does transfer though.

I'm not convinced that putting Bagley on the perimeter is the best use of his time. He's far from Lauri with the three point shot and defensively I'd bet on his rim protecting ability over his lateral quickness to stay in front of wings and avoid picking up blocking fouls.

Jayson Tatum played less than 5min/g at the three as a more traditional combo forward. Brandon Ingram played no minutes at the three as a far better three point shooter. And Bagley's best offensive skills - going to work on the block and playing off of the pick and roll - would be negated by two traditional bigs hanging out in the paint or moving to the wings and allowing Arizona defenders to sag into the paint (as Duke doesn't have a big man with a reliable outside shot).

I'm equally confident that Bagley does not get real minutes at the three with the roster as it stands today. We'll call it a gentleman's bet.

[YoDeFoe]

Bagley likes the perimeter and showing diversity of skill. I wouldn't be shocked if Duke bows to that desire, at least letting him play outside/in a decent amount.

It's similar to Miller and Ayton. Ayton clearly sees himself as a perimeter threat, even though Miller will likely encourage him to be inside more. Those sort of debates are common with big time recruits. We started AG at the 3 until Ashley went down despite AG not being a stellar shooter.

Maybe they cave to his desires, sure. I suppose I'm thinking of the best basketball decision and not the best decision in the vein of "give your recruit a retired number and help him skip a year of high school to attend one of the most academically challenging universities in the world, because LOL basketball."

Re: Gordon... We had TJ, Nick, Zeus all starting, then we had Ashley (So), Gordon (Fr), RHJ (Fr), and Gabe (So). Who would you have played in those last two spots? Gordon at the three crowded out... who? A less offensively talented Rondae and a defensive liability in York (that would have required Nick to play out of position at the three). It's not the same question that Duke is facing with a clear hole in the post and a bevy of talented wings.

[ChooChooCat]

Why in the world would Bagley play the three for Duke at any point? To make room for Bolden to play along with him and Carter? So they can send shooters like Gary Trent Jr or Grayson Allen to the bench for a bunch of non-shooting bigs? The three is the one spot that Duke has depth at with Trent Jr., Allen, Tucker, and White. If Bagley gets 5min/g at the three spot I'll be stunned.

Because Bagley can play any position on the court. Allen probably is your back up PG, unless you're convinced that kid whose second best offer was Eastern Kentucky is the best option at backup PG, so in all actuality Allen will have to slide over to play the 1, which means every one slides down a position. Also are you really expecting Jack White to get minutes on this team? Seriously? You could've at least said Connelly and then I'd consider buying it.

I'd be willing to put some cash on the Bagley playing 5 min/g at the 3 if you want. The bet goes null and void if Bolden does transfer though.

I'm not convinced that putting Bagley on the perimeter is the best use of his time. He's far from Lauri with the three point shot and defensively I'd bet on his rim protecting ability over his lateral quickness to stay in front of wings and avoid picking up blocking fouls.

Jayson Tatum played less than 5min/g at the three as a more traditional combo forward. Brandon Ingram played no minutes at the three as a far better three point shooter. And Bagley's best offensive skills - going to work on the block and playing off of the pick and roll - would be negated by two traditional bigs hanging out in the paint or moving to the wings and allowing Arizona defenders to sag into the paint (as Duke doesn't have a big man with a reliable outside shot).

I'm equally confident that Bagley does not get real minutes at the three with the roster as it stands today. We'll call it a gentleman's bet.

I agree with a lot of what you said, but in regards to Tatum and Ingram both are terrible examples being that based on the weakness of their teams they had no choice, but to play the 4 for so many minutes. I mean in Ingram's sole year Amile Jefferson played only 9 games and the only other post players remotely capable were Chase Jeter and the 12th Plumlee brother who neither resembled a 4 man. In Tatum's sole year you had Amile Jefferson and a mix and match of a hobbled Harry Giles, a hobbled Chase Jeter, a hobbled Marques Bolden, and Delaurier. Add to the fact that Kennard & Allen were so important to the team that they couldn't be benched much at all and they had to play alongside some form of point guard it just made the most sense for Tatum to play so heavily.

Of course my take is only plausible with the possibility that Duke finally has a healthy frontcourt and that both Bolden and Delaurier live up to their rankings and can contribute effectively. If either go by the wayside via injury, transfer, or inability then I completely agree with you that Bagley won't scratch the 5 min/g at the 3 spot. If the Eastern Kentucky offer kid turns out to be a competent backup PG then my argument is null and void as well, but I don't see it.

Hell the more we discuss this the more I'm backing out, because I just don't know if Delaurier does contribute at all.

Duke certainly has had some crappy luck with their frontcourt both in evaluating talent, developing it, and keeping their guys healthy.

[YoDeFoe]

I agree with a lot of what you said, but in regards to Tatum and Ingram both are terrible examples being that based on the weakness of their teams they had no choice, but to play the 4 for so many minutes. I mean in Ingram's sole year Amile Jefferson played only 9 games and the only other post players remotely capable were Chase Jeter and the 12th Plumlee brother who neither resembled a 4 man. In Tatum's sole year you had Amile Jefferson and a mix and match of a hobbled Harry Giles, a hobbled Chase Jeter, a hobbled Marques Bolden, and Delaurier. Add to the fact that Kennard & Allen were so important to the team that they couldn't be benched much at all and they had to play alongside some form of point guard it just made the most sense for Tatum to play so heavily.

Of course my take is only plausible with the possibility that Duke finally has a healthy frontcourt and that both Bolden and Delaurier live up to their rankings and can contribute effectively. If either go by the wayside via injury, transfer, or inability then I completely agree with you that Bagley won't scratch the 5 min/g at the 3 spot. If the Eastern Kentucky offer kid turns out to be a competent backup PG then my argument is null and void as well, but I don't see it.

Hell the more we discuss this the more I'm backing out, because I just don't know if Delaurier does contribute at all.

Duke certainly has had some crappy luck with their frontcourt both in evaluating talent, developing it, and keeping their guys healthy.

Good points on the make-up of those Duke teams.

I don't buy DeLaurier (more PFs than PTs last year) or Bolden (injury prone and dejected) as being players you want playing extended minutes, so that's a foundation of my argument. I'm not high on their bench beyond Jordan Tucker, really. If I had that 1-5, I'd max out those minutes and give as little as possible to the sharp drop in talent on the bench. Unless one of the unproven players beyond Tucker surprises.

[Spaceman Spiff]

Bagley likes the perimeter and showing diversity of skill. I wouldn't be shocked if Duke bows to that desire, at least letting him play outside/in a decent amount.

It's similar to Miller and Ayton. Ayton clearly sees himself as a perimeter threat, even though Miller will likely encourage him to be inside more. Those sort of debates are common with big time recruits. We started AG at the 3 until Ashley went down despite AG not being a stellar shooter.

Maybe they cave to his desires, sure. I suppose I'm thinking of the best basketball decision and not the best decision in the vein of "give your recruit a retired number and help him skip a year of high school to attend one of the most academically challenging universities in the world, because LOL basketball."

Re: Gordon... We had TJ, Nick, Zeus all starting, then we had Ashley (So), Gordon (Fr), RHJ (Fr), and Gabe (So). Who would you have played in those last two spots? Gordon at the three crowded out... who? A less offensively talented Rondae and a defensive liability in York (that would have required Nick to play out of position at the three). It's not the same question that Duke is facing with a clear hole in the post and a bevy of talented wings.

Maybe it's harsh, but I think K is winning by any means necessary now. The run of early losses in the late 2000 decade changed his philosophy markedly.

On AG, I agree on positioning, but offensively, I would have slotted him as the stretch 4 and Ashley as the wing. I recognize in motion, there's a lot of interchangability. That said, it isn't so much about tweaking the lineup as it would have been letting Ashley take the position that demanded more shooting and getting AG around the rim.

[SunnyAZ]

Duke is now 3-1 favorites.

[MountainCat]

All will go great for Duke until Allen feels the pressure of losing his leadership role to Bagley and by 5 game gets caught tripping some point guard from some unknown school at Cameron Indoor and receives an unheard-of two game suspension. K then mysteriously puts his back out and leaves for the season. Even though they have 10 loses on the season and lose to Wake Forest in the first round of the ACC Tourney, everyone agrees they are the best on paper and get the overall No. 1 seed in the Tourney. Dick Vital goes ape over Dukes road to the final four as Duke supposedly gets placed in the toughest Region. Duke loses to GCU in the first round to become the first No. 1 seed to lose to a 16 seed in Tourney history. Arizona is crowned Champion two weeks later. Vital retires, K gets a 10 year contract extension, then proclaimes the Tourney was rigged and refuses to coach again. Duke fans feel bad and pay him half his 10 year extension he just signed by settling on a 50 million dollar buyout. He accepts.

Season over! and Allen goes undrafted in the NBA draft.

One can dream can't they?

[Chicat]

Fuck Duke




That is all.

[EVCat]

Marvin Bagley III is a good kid. He is. Dad is a low-key Lavar Ball. But MBIII is a quality kid. And he will be shut down on first sign of physical trouble.

Meanwhile...we start two seniors, a junior, and a returning starter sophomore along with a national top 3 freshman.

We have youth, but filling in the gaps. We have a very experienced core on the floor to start games. People need to consider this factor when projecting PJC...he is an old man in this system. We also have a rather experienced core of practice bodies. The locker room has some experience/gravitas. That is rare for a team with this much talent.

[EVCat]

Maybe it's harsh, but I think K is winning by any means necessary now. The run of early losses in the late 2000 decade changed his philosophy markedly.

I felt the same about Lute post-2005

[whatisee]

Fuck Duke and ASSU.

We would destroy Duke this year. Put them on the schedule for fucks sake unless coach K is still having DWill night mares

[NYCat]

Maybe it's harsh, but I think K is winning by any means necessary now. The run of early losses in the late 2000 decade changed his philosophy markedly.

I felt the same about Lute post-2005

K has 2 titles since the late 2000s, worked out for him. Bunch of early losses but has titles and final fours

[EVCat]

Maybe it's harsh, but I think K is winning by any means necessary now. The run of early losses in the late 2000 decade changed his philosophy markedly.

I felt the same about Lute post-2005

K has 2 titles since the late 2000s, worked out for him. Bunch of early losses but has titles and final fours

yes.

Lute didn't get that adjustment period.

K = Calipari now. I have no issue with that. But the Saint K idea got sold down the river for wins...

[rgdeuce]

I believe in karma. Grayson Allen is more than due for some. I don't expect him to be on the floor the whole season.

[Spaceman Spiff]

Maybe it's harsh, but I think K is winning by any means necessary now. The run of early losses in the late 2000 decade changed his philosophy markedly.

I felt the same about Lute post-2005

I love Lute, but after the Illinois loss, it seemed apparent that he didn't have the same control over the direction of the program. My analogy would be Mack Brown at the end of his run at Texas. Part of it was probably health, but he just didn't set the tone Arizona used to have. Details got outsourced and the program decayed.

[gumby]

Maybe it's harsh, but I think K is winning by any means necessary now. The run of early losses in the late 2000 decade changed his philosophy markedly.

I felt the same about Lute post-2005

I love Lute, but after the Illinois loss, it seemed apparent that he didn't have the same control over the direction of the program. My analogy would be Mack Brown at the end of his run at Texas. Part of it was probably health, but he just didn't set the tone Arizona used to have. Details got outsourced and the program decayed.

Yes, and there was a lot of push-back against this belief as it was happening. Some of my least favorite teams. Not just because of record, but because of attitude, desire and general erosion of team work.

Granted, easier to see in retrospect. I mark the decline as 2004, with 2005 being the outlier season. Even that year, we got outworked by UW and then had a nice tourney run (thanks to Salim's heroics against Okla. St).

Previous year had: Iggy, Adams, Frye, Salim. Loads of talent. Bad chemistry. Opposite of 2003.

Fear not! "The Three Kings" were on the way! Onobun, Prince, Williams.

Bleh.

Fear not! Nic Wise has signed on as a high school freshman!

OK, I'll stop.

[ChooChooCat]

Maybe it's harsh, but I think K is winning by any means necessary now. The run of early losses in the late 2000 decade changed his philosophy markedly.

I felt the same about Lute post-2005

I love Lute, but after the Illinois loss, it seemed apparent that he didn't have the same control over the direction of the program. My analogy would be Mack Brown at the end of his run at Texas. Part of it was probably health, but he just didn't set the tone Arizona used to have. Details got outsourced and the program decayed.

Pastner made a lot of calls on who to recruit/prioritize post 2005. In general the assistants were given free reign on this front, which obviously led to catastrophe.

[Spaceman Spiff]

Maybe it's harsh, but I think K is winning by any means necessary now. The run of early losses in the late 2000 decade changed his philosophy markedly.

I felt the same about Lute post-2005

I love Lute, but after the Illinois loss, it seemed apparent that he didn't have the same control over the direction of the program. My analogy would be Mack Brown at the end of his run at Texas. Part of it was probably health, but he just didn't set the tone Arizona used to have. Details got outsourced and the program decayed.

Yes, and there was a lot of push-back against this belief as it was happening. Some of my least favorite teams. Not just because of record, but because of attitude, desire and general erosion of team work.

Granted, easier to see in retrospect. I mark the decline as 2004, with 2005 being the outlier season. Even that year, we got outworked by UW and then had a nice tourney run (thanks to Salim's heroics against Okla. St).

Previous year had: Iggy, Adams, Frye, Salim. Loads of talent. Bad chemistry. Opposite of 2003.

Fear not! "The Three Kings" were on the way! Onobun, Prince, Williams.

Bleh.

Fear not! Nic Wise has signed on as a high school freshman!

OK, I'll stop.

My friend worked for the host school at the 2007 New Orleans NCAA site when we lost to Purdue in the first round. After, he told me that Arizona was easily the least organized, least disciplined and most arrogant team there.

There was a lot of talent on the 05-06, 06-07 and 07-08 teams. It was never talent that really came together, though. I view that period as the fall of the Arizona Empire. But then Sean Miller happened.

[Longhorned]

Maybe it's harsh, but I think K is winning by any means necessary now. The run of early losses in the late 2000 decade changed his philosophy markedly.

I felt the same about Lute post-2005

I love Lute, but after the Illinois loss, it seemed apparent that he didn't have the same control over the direction of the program. My analogy would be Mack Brown at the end of his run at Texas. Part of it was probably health, but he just didn't set the tone Arizona used to have. Details got outsourced and the program decayed.

Yes, and there was a lot of push-back against this belief as it was happening. Some of my least favorite teams. Not just because of record, but because of attitude, desire and general erosion of team work.

Granted, easier to see in retrospect. I mark the decline as 2004, with 2005 being the outlier season. Even that year, we got outworked by UW and then had a nice tourney run (thanks to Salim's heroics against Okla. St).

Previous year had: Iggy, Adams, Frye, Salim. Loads of talent. Bad chemistry. Opposite of 2003.

Fear not! "The Three Kings" were on the way! Onobun, Prince, Williams.

Bleh.

Fear not! Nic Wise has signed on as a high school freshman!

OK, I'll stop.

My friend worked for the host school at the 2007 New Orleans NCAA site when we lost to Purdue in the first round. After, he told me that Arizona was easily the least organized, least disciplined and most arrogant team there.

That's the team that ended every pre-season practice by standing in a circle with their hands in the center and shouting, "Atlanta!" Which was the site of the Final Four. Joe Lunardi predicted they'd be out-toughed by Purdue, and he nailed that one. One for fifty!

[Beachcat97]

I view that period as the fall of the Arizona Empire. But then Sean Miller happened.

It never fell; it just stumbled and regrouped. Miller was obviously the right choice to re-establish the program as #1 in the west.

[Spaceman Spiff]

That's the team that ended every pre-season practice by standing in a circle with their hands in the center and shouting, "Atlanta!" Which was the site of the Final Four. Joe Lunardi predicted they'd be out-toughed by Purdue, and he nailed that one. One for fifty!

Well, it's still better than ASU's "NIT" break.

[Jefe]

Final Top 150

https://n.rivals.com/prospect_rankings/rivals150/2017" target="_blank
http://247sports.com/Season/2017-Basket ... HighSchool" target="_blank

Rivals on the left. 247 on the right

4 Ayton 4
26 Akot 21
52 Randolph 38
60 Lee 58
118 Barcello 80

[threenumberones]

Final Top 150

https://n.rivals.com/prospect_rankings/rivals150/2017" target="_blank
http://247sports.com/Season/2017-Basket ... HighSchool" target="_blank

Rivals on the left. 247 on the right

4 Ayton 4
26 Akot 21
52 Randolph 38
60 Lee 58
118 Barcello 80

Randolph at 52 is going to look incredibly foolish in a few months..

[ChooChooCat]

Been saying that about Randolph for a long time now. Ayton's ranking is beyond moronic though. There's no basis in reality that puts him worse than 3rd in this class.