Bribery Scandal - FBI Probe - Book Richardson Involved

[baycat93]

Curse Hank of Sb all you want but he is closer to reality than most here are.

Bottom line is that the UA was caught on Tape.........not Kentucky, Duke, or UCLA. The NCAA is going to throw the 6/7 teams who were caught red handed under the bus........period. The only question is when will the NCAA get around to it?? This year or next??? My guess:

1) Paid player suspended (if they can figure out who he is)
2) No 2018 PAC12 tournament (Does anyone here really think that Larry Scott is going to forgive UA/Miller?)
3) No NCAA tournament (2018)
4) Loss of multiple scholarships for several years

And if thats all we get......we will be lucky.

We are not Duke.......we are (in the eyes of the NCAA) UNLV in Tucson.

People who write like this are acting like this scandal is over instead of just beginning.

Baloney. It IS over as far as the UA is concerned (unless Miller is implicated). There were only a handful of schools that were caught red-handed by the FBI........the other 200+ or so Div. 1 schools were not. Duke/Kentucky/everyone else are not going to suddenly stand up and proclaim to the world that they are guilty as hell too.........they will keep their mouth shut. The NCAA has a finite number of investigators and resources. They will simply shoot the handful of teams on tape. There may very well be some new regulations regarding agents/shoe companies that will come down but thats it. You, and a lot of others here, are rationalizing/dreaming. The UA is going to get Whacked, pure and simple.

The NCAA has not even started an investigation. This is the FBI and they have the power of subpoena. TOTALLY different situations. I doubt the NCAA even begins until the FBI runs its course for awhile.

Agree on all points...........BUT, when they do get around to investigating (and they will) the UA's transgressions are on freaking tape. We WILL be shot. The only question is when.

I think what is trying to be conveyed is the FBI seems intent on expanding their investigation, and unlike the NCAA, can and will follow the money... ie through subpoena and flipping the current group. It is far likelier this ensnares more and more people/schools/companies ect. It will be difficult for the NCAA to punish/legislate when that happens. Why do it now when so much is still unknown.

[Olsondogg]

Frankly that's akin to "arrest the dudes running the red light while the riot breaks out..."

[dmjcat]

Curse Hank of Sb all you want but he is closer to reality than most here are.

Bottom line is that the UA was caught on Tape.........not Kentucky, Duke, or UCLA. The NCAA is going to throw the 6/7 teams who were caught red handed under the bus........period. The only question is when will the NCAA get around to it?? This year or next??? My guess:

1) Paid player suspended (if they can figure out who he is)
2) No 2018 PAC12 tournament (Does anyone here really think that Larry Scott is going to forgive UA/Miller?)
3) No NCAA tournament (2018)
4) Loss of multiple scholarships for several years

And if thats all we get......we will be lucky.

We are not Duke.......we are (in the eyes of the NCAA) UNLV in Tucson.
Most everyone else on this board is seriously rationalizing

The NCAA has no power in deciding who the FBI goes after and recommends to the DOJ. This investigatiom has been going on for three years and if u think in three years, Book was one of a small handful caught up in this you are crazy. Book literally got caught up at the tail end of that three years. I can guarantee you this wont be the only conspiracy that gets charged, or even one of a few. We dont know what the FBI has and doesnt have, but I can tell u for certain they didnt spend three years to nab seven guys and will now focus all their attention on Adidas. You dont sneak shit by the FBI, especially when they are bringing down people you tegularly have electronic and face to face interactions with fairly regularly. These guys all know each other and what they do. They may not work w them, but they do work w people who do the same thing. They are at all these showcases, AAU events, big high school games, camps, etc, right along with the FBI agents snapping pictures of them, mingling with them and taking notes.

In my team here and on the old board, 97 has been spot on on everything short of one or two last-minute recruitments that took a wild turn at the end. Given what he has explained in here, it makes sense why those one or two were misses. Add to that the stuff many prominent CBB personalities are saying, yeah, I'm inclined to believe 97 is spot on as usual. The dots all connect and common sense can fill in most of the rest.

We agree to disagree.

This is what we ACTUALLY know:

1) The UA (Book) got caught red handed doing really bad stuff as defined by the NCAA (some other colleges got caught too).
2) The NCAA has a record of whacking Colleges that engage in really bad stuff
3) See #1

Everything else on this board is anonymous message board poster crap.

Peace.

[Olsondogg]

Failed to mention that the FBI has an open investigation...but yeah, that doesn't matter.

[EVCat]

I just don't see how the pollyanna's crawling all over themselves to let everyone know they hate this and are shocked...SHOCKED...were able to watch the game got the last 40 years and not know this was happening.

Is the shock that it is so organized? Your favorite game snags kids into their systems at u9, where the ones identified to be in the national top 25 of 5th graders are funneled to the top clubs, even if those clubs are located in another state. Those clubs are all affiliated (the ones that matter) with either Nike or Adidas, and they only play those tournaments. If the kid is good enough, they move up the club, or are pulled by an even better club. The top 100 of any class resides largely among 20 clubs in the country. The kids are given swag for participation, and their club leadership hooks them up with the best in a garage full of shoes and socks and shirts if they perform well. In tougher neighborhoods, the club's employ former gang members to allow safe passage, a hood pass, to top level coaches. The club can refuse this option as well...if you are not affiliated with the correct shoe company. The club contract with the shoe company pays for travel and, most importantly, the salary of the President of the club. So, club X is paid by Adidas and outfitted by Adidas and only deals with Adidas coaches and play Adidas tournaments, and Adidas pays them, why? Exposure, to win, and by winning, to be attractive to the next Michael Jordan. And if the club doesn't win? Hmmm...so, do you think the club's are paying players? So, with this culture, all known...we all know the shoe companies are throwing money around, seed money, to get the next MJ or LeBron. Top players families are being hit up by multiple clubs. Did the "innocents" think mom and dad sat down and did a two column to determine the pros and cons of each club?

Now these kids have been in this culture, pursued since they were 9. Their parents have been given things for years. The NCAA allows for gifts from friends of the family that can establish there was a prior relationship before recruiting. Yeah...Uncle CoachofClubY has been giving junior stuff since he was...9. Now, UncleCoach, who makes $75K as a U15 club coach and works for the city, buys the kid a new Tahoe. Cause he loves him like a son. Where did that money come from? But...friend of the family.

Again...we've all known this. If you didn't, it was only because you actively hid from it. Watch any documentary on AAU or high school hoops. So this kid has "handlers" now...creating a layer between player and dough. Go to a game sometime at the high school level.. lots of guys there who are "friends" or "cousins". The shoe companies have every step from 9 to 18 covered, and you think they are going to leave the next step, when the seed talent they have invested in has now proven itself? You really thought they went "well...itnis against NCAA rules".

Did you really think the car off the Jim Click lot Sean Elliott and A.C. were driving/riding in was bought and paid for by their summer jobs? Chris Mills was ineligible at UK when an Emory envelope busted open (yeah) revealing a cash payment to Claude, his dad. Did you think Claude learned his lesson and THIS TIME Chris was going to go play for free? Did you think Chris Rodgers and Jesus Verdejo and Isiah Fox and Mike Bibby and company just chose Arizona after high school, because the chicks or the pool parties? Jim Click cars left the lot on their own?

C'mon...there has always been a group of boosters at schools that have taken care of the dirty work, hired runners of their own to make contact, facilitated a job for mom or an aunt or what have you, who keep the dirty business away from the player and coach. This has always existed. Coaching salary increases and increased revenues and NBA money had pushed the going rate for players. But how could anyone know the AAU game was owned by shoe companies, that we regularly recruited the top clubs, and got the best players and somehow only some of those other schools participated in paying players? The recruiting, the success of Miller, is no less amazing, because the playing field for recruits has everyone, even asu, paying the going rate for top players. The pay is there...we aren't paying more than others. Maybe we are even paying less...but you still have to out-recruit the top programs, the P5 programs, the only programs that would be in for 5 stars even if there was no pay. The recruiting prowess needed hasnt changed...the competition is still on even ground. We didn't buy #3 classes because we had a bigger pay budget. We paid more because we more successful in recruiting.

I'm not going to pretend I knew the details of what 97Cats said. But you would havr to be willfully ignorant to think a sport so dominated by for profit shoe companies paying billions to put together an infrastructure to ensnare the next major endorser would just leave this step up to chance, and that players who have been bought at every step would suddenly play for love of school for one year

[prh]

Funny how over time you start to realize who has actual connections and knowledge and who just likes to act like their opinions are obvious and fact. Usually those with knowledge just post it, and the others just post that they have fact and everything else is random nonsense.

[gumby]

Just read that Pitino's contract stipulates 10-day notice before being terminated. So probably would've been fired outright without that. He has $44 million left on contract.
Holy shit. Some lawyers are about to get rich.

Wonder if Miller has something like that.

[azgreg]

You've got to think this will bleed over into football as well right?

[prh]

You've got to think this will bleed over into football as well right?

Not necessarily, the way this manifests in football is far different than basketball. This article was posted a while back and gives great insight. https://www.sbnation.com/college-footba ... -interview" target="_blank

[YoDeFoe]

seems like a great idea.

But perhaps only to me.

[rgdeuce]

I would argue that we didnt know anything about this 48 hours ago. It was a secret FBI sting over two years. So now to assume everyone is getting raided and more info comes out soon would seem odd vs how it was handled in the past. NCAA is to small to look into everything. Change in the future would have to come though. Its just not every school is going to be dragged through the dirt.

I would argue that the FBI released the info that they wanted you to know, or that they indicted who they needed to move forward in another direction...

I mean people really think this is done and the NCAA is moving in now? The fucking last thing the NCAA wanted was this...

Spot on, as you have been throughout the thread. Feds and DOJ will sit on cases for years sometimes. It's all about timing and getting your ducks in order so you can take down the next ones who are the next step up.

[YoDeFoe]

Curse Hank of Sb all you want but he is closer to reality than most here are.

Bottom line is that the UA was caught on Tape.........not Kentucky, Duke, or UCLA. The NCAA is going to throw the 6/7 teams who were caught red handed under the bus........period. The only question is when will the NCAA get around to it?? This year or next??? My guess:

1) Paid player suspended (if they can figure out who he is)
2) No 2018 PAC12 tournament (Does anyone here really think that Larry Scott is going to forgive UA/Miller?)
3) No NCAA tournament (2018)
4) Loss of multiple scholarships for several years

And if thats all we get......we will be lucky.

We are not Duke.......we are (in the eyes of the NCAA) UNLV in Tucson.
Most everyone else on this board is seriously rationalizing

So you and Hank of SB are arm in arm... except for the whole FIRE MILLER IMMEDIATELY and MAYBE I'LL RETURN AS A FAN bit.

Step off it.

[zonagrad]

Just read that Pitino's contract stipulates 10-day notice before being terminated. So probably would've been fired outright without that. He has $44 million left on contract.
Holy shit. Some lawyers are about to get rich.

Wonder if Miller has something like that.

Would he get the buyout if he's fired with cause?

[SCCats]

Right. Doubt there will be penalties this season.

Yup. Throw in a couple of "woops our bad" delays and the first hearing won't be until post April 15th.

We do need to get rid of players that would cause records to be expunged.

Unless said player is absolutely necessary to win a national title. Then it's play em, have tons of fun on way to winning a title, then keep fingers crossed it doesn't get vacated.

[gumby]

I just don't see how the pollyanna's crawling all over themselves to let everyone know they hate this and are shocked...SHOCKED...were able to watch the game got the last 40 years and not know this was happening.

Is the shock that it is so organized? Your favorite game snags kids into their systems at u9, where the ones identified to be in the national top 25 of 5th graders are funneled to the top clubs, even if those clubs are located in another state. Those clubs are all affiliated (the ones that matter) with either Nike or Adidas, and they only play those tournaments. If the kid is good enough, they move up the club, or are pulled by an even better club. The top 100 of any class resides largely among 20 clubs in the country. The kids are given swag for participation, and their club leadership hooks them up with the best in a garage full of shoes and socks and shirts if they perform well. In tougher neighborhoods, the club's employ former gang members to allow safe passage, a hood pass, to top level coaches. The club can refuse this option as well...if you are not affiliated with the correct shoe company. The club contract with the shoe company pays for travel and, most importantly, the salary of the President of the club. So, club X is paid by Adidas and outfitted by Adidas and only deals with Adidas coaches and play Adidas tournaments, and Adidas pays them, why? Exposure, to win, and by winning, to be attractive to the next Michael Jordan. And if the club doesn't win? Hmmm...so, do you think the club's are paying players? So, with this culture, all known...we all know the shoe companies are throwing money around, seed money, to get the next MJ or LeBron. Top players families are being hit up by multiple clubs. Did the "innocents" think mom and dad sat down and did a two column to determine the pros and cons of each club?

Now these kids have been in this culture, pursued since they were 9. Their parents have been given things for years. The NCAA allows for gifts from friends of the family that can establish there was a prior relationship before recruiting. Yeah...Uncle CoachofClubY has been giving junior stuff since he was...9. Now, UncleCoach, who makes $75K as a U15 club coach and works for the city, buys the kid a new Tahoe. Cause he loves him like a son. Where did that money come from? But...friend of the family.

Again...we've all known this. If you didn't, it was only because you actively hid from it. Watch any documentary on AAU or high school hoops. So this kid has "handlers" now...creating a layer between player and dough. Go to a game sometime at the high school level.. lots of guys there who are "friends" or "cousins". The shoe companies have every step from 9 to 18 covered, and you think they are going to leave the next step, when the seed talent they have invested in has now proven itself? You really thought they went "well...itnis against NCAA rules".

Did you really think the car off the Jim Click lot Sean Elliott and A.C. were driving/riding in was bought and paid for by their summer jobs? Chris Mills was ineligible at UK when an Emory envelope busted open (yeah) revealing a cash payment to Claude, his dad. Did you think Claude learned his lesson and THIS TIME Chris was going to go play for free? Did you think Chris Rodgers and Jesus Verdejo and Isiah Fox and Mike Bibby and company just chose Arizona after high school, because the chicks or the pool parties? Jim Click cars left the lot on their own?

C'mon...there has always been a group of boosters at schools that have taken care of the dirty work, hired runners of their own to make contact, facilitated a job for mom or an aunt or what have you, who keep the dirty business away from the player and coach. This has always existed. Coaching salary increases and increased revenues and NBA money had pushed the going rate for players. But how could anyone know the AAU game was owned by shoe companies, that we regularly recruited the top clubs, and got the best players and somehow only some of those other schools participated in paying players? The recruiting, the success of Miller, is no less amazing, because the playing field for recruits has everyone, even asu, paying the going rate for top players. The pay is there...we aren't paying more than others. Maybe we are even paying less...but you still have to out-recruit the top programs, the P5 programs, the only programs that would be in for 5 stars even if there was no pay. The recruiting prowess needed hasnt changed...the competition is still on even ground. We didn't buy #3 classes because we had a bigger pay budget. We paid more because we more successful in recruiting.

I'm not going to pretend I knew the details of what 97Cats said. But you would havr to be willfully ignorant to think a sport so dominated by for profit shoe companies paying billions to put together an infrastructure to ensnare the next major endorser would just leave this step up to chance, and that players who have been bought at every step would suddenly play for love of school for one year

I really do not/did not know a lot of this, especially AAU stuff. You have to willfully seek it out. I find the games themselves unwatchable. I did think cases like Chris Mills were the exception. I did believe coaches who said we do it the right way, until they showed they didn't. Never seen UA fans say, "We do it the right way. That's why I respect Olson or Miller"?

Certainly didn't know $150k was the going rate for a star player. I suspect others didn't either or they wouldn't have mocked other schools when they were caught with what looks like low-level violations compared to $150k -- loans, plane tickets, etc. What was the point of calling other schools/coaches corrupt when we were, too?

Then there's all the talk of paying players because they can't go to movies and take a girl out on a date. What was that all about, if we all knew the going rate?

So, congrats. You knew all of that or most of it. Did you enjoy it? Not hating what just happened? Or just hating that we got caught.

[Olsondogg]

Guys it simple. Clean program is the one that did not get caught ...

[YoDeFoe]

I think worst case from the current indictment is what dmjcat described, in some fashion.

What is outstanding could shake the whole system loose though.

Nassir Little was listed as being in a bidding war between Miami and Arizona, and was until yesterday a silent Arizona commit/lean. So did we pay him or make commitments to pay him, and if so via who in the program - Book again?

Nike just got raided. More shit could come tumbling out of those raids.

Indicted coaches could start talking. Book has been with Miller the whole ride. If anyone knows where the bodies are buried, it's Book.

[gumby]

Guys it simple. Clean program is the one that did not get caught ...

But if you said Arizona was corrupt day before yesterday, you would've been hit with a firehose of posts.

[dmjcat]

I would argue that we didnt know anything about this 48 hours ago. It was a secret FBI sting over two years. So now to assume everyone is getting raided and more info comes out soon would seem odd vs how it was handled in the past. NCAA is to small to look into everything. Change in the future would have to come though. Its just not every school is going to be dragged through the dirt.

I would argue that the FBI released the info that they wanted you to know, or that they indicted who they needed to move forward in another direction...

I mean people really think this is done and the NCAA is moving in now? The fucking last thing the NCAA wanted was this...

Spot on, as you have been throughout the thread. Feds and DOJ will sit on cases for years sometimes. It's all about timing and getting your ducks in order so you can take down the next ones who are the next step up.

So you really believe the NCAA is going to allow the UA to waltz into the 2018 tourney knowing we have a PAID player on our roster????
Not to mention all of the other stuff Book got caught doing?

They might not officially (and completely) sanction us by March 2018 but they will certainly NOT allow us to participate.

Serious rationalizing occurring on this message board.

[azpenguin]

I've never pretended everything was on the up and up. You always just knew that you would rather not see how the sausage got made. I've been watching AZ hoops since Lute's first season (UA was a football school before then and as flawed as my parents were, they did protect me from having to watch the Ben Lindsey year.) As a kid, it was a blast. As I got older, I still enjoyed the hell out of it, but I knew that it wasn't pure. But what was I to do? Quit watching it? Ignore the biggest thing happening in town? I figured someday, the NCAA was going to find something, most likely by accident. No idea that it would be the FBI lobbing nukes on the entire college basketball landscape. Now we wait and see what the investigation uncovers, and wait and see what happens to Arizona hoops and college sports as a whole.

[Spaceman Spiff]

Guys it simple. Clean program is the one that did not get caught ...

But if you said Arizona was corrupt day before yesterday, you would've been hit with a firehose of posts.

When we say corrupt, is that graded on the curve or not?

I posted that Arizona was not 100% clean in the Pitino thread in arch-rivals. Whether we're dirty depends on whether you're comparing us to the ideal or the actual norm.

[SCCats]

So you really believe the NCAA is going to allow the UA to waltz into the 2018 tourney knowing we have a PAID player on our roster????

They'll never let that happen. But if they do, they will definitely get to the investigation later and vacate the title.

Sincerely,

Cam Newton's 2010-11 Auburn national title team

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cam_Newton" target="_blank

(See eligibility issues at bottom, in case you forgot)

[Olsondogg]

Guys it simple. Clean program is the one that did not get caught ...

But if you said Arizona was corrupt day before yesterday, you would've been hit with a firehose of posts.

They were clean then.

[rgdeuce]

I think worst case from the current indictment is what dmjcat described, in some fashion.

What is outstanding could shake the whole system loose though.

Nassir Little was listed as being in a bidding war between Miami and Arizona, and was until yesterday a silent Arizona commit/lean. So did we pay him or make commitments to pay him, and if so via who in the program - Book again?

Nike just got raided. More shit could come tumbling out of those raids.

Indicted coaches could start talking. Book has been with Miller the whole ride. If anyone knows where the bodies are buried, it's Book.

I said it earlier, but I doubt Book rolls on anyone, let alone Miller. New York dudes are taught to not snitch, and hes not going to get a lot of time if he takes a regular plea deal.. Another interesting angle, I may be wrong on this, but part of being the "Book" at a program (and see Dan Dakitch's (sp?) comment about there being 100 programs w a "Book") likely means you were judged as a loyal guy who will take the fall if shit goes south. All that in addition to the other measures of insulation. Perhaps thats even an unwritten agreement. Essentially part of the job function may be what is referred to as a "weed carrier." You know, the guy who holds the rappers or ballplayers weed, so in case they get pulled over, the weed carrier gets the possession rap and does the time instead of the powerful person who owns the weed.

[Chicat]

Serious rationalizing occurring on this message board.

Legitimate question here: So what?

Surprised the "Fire Miller NOW" folks are even sticking around here. What's the point?

[dmjcat]

So you really believe the NCAA is going to allow the UA to waltz into the 2018 tourney knowing we have a PAID player on our roster????

They'll never let that happen. But if they do, they will definitely get to the investigation later and vacate the title.

Sincerely,

Cam Newton's 2010-11 Auburn national title team

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cam_Newton" target="_blank

(See eligibility issues at bottom, in case you forgot)

Except that the NCAA didn't have Cam Newton ON TAPE!!

The UA is done with the Tourney for at least a year.

[EVCat]

Honestly I'm not drinking the cool-aid, I seriously doubt EVERY school does this and I seriously doubt ALL shoe companies do this, yes some do, but I think it's always an rogue individual involved...Book threw away his life for a few thousand bucks, that is simply stupid on PED's, I basically think most people are good, most people are not greedy to the point of trashing other people and major institutions may have problems but it is not everyone doing this shit...Mark Few of Gonzaga comes to mind.

There is no Kool-Aid. Do you really think there are certain players who just go "nah...I don't want it". Anyone competing at the higher levels does it, and they all have to do it or they would never get a top recruit. If the team you are talking about gets a 4 or 5 star, they paid. And every shoe company that has invested billions in advertising and creating an AAU structure that forces brand loyalty...yes, they all participate.

It isn't like we are handing bags of money to players. This all comes from the process through AAU, and involves boosters and the shoe companies. The boosters want to win, the shoe companies want to make sure the potential future Michael Jordan stays loyal and goes to a school on their roster, and then, apparently, they pay some assistants to further direct the kid to certain agents who are friendly to that shoe company.

You know how you can know it is happening at school X? They have a shoe contract. You know how you can tell if it is happening at the highest scale, like the top 50-100 programs? The school signs 4 or 5 star players.

You still have to win the recruit to get the right to pay their asking price. And it isn't like Sean Miller goes "OK...Ayton is $200K and Barcello is $25K, but is willing to waive that because the handlers know the family isn't comfortable with this...so, we have another $400K to spend".

This happens outside the coaches hands. This is a booster/shoe company/AAU thing involving runners and handlers and is not just a Brinks Truck pulling up pay. Sometimes it can be in kind (car, house, job for mom), or cash. And it isn't like a contract, obviously. But this has always happened, was happening back in the Chris Mills days and is happening now. The programs that got the reputation as rogue were the ones who did not give a shit about hiding it, or about stepping out of their process in certain circumstances. The "clean" schools are the ones who keep it away from the athletic director office and the coaching staff, that have a process that continues unabated no matter who the coach is, no matter if the coach is changed. The average coach may only be in the school for 5 or 6 years, but the boosters are there forever. And they are the ones that determine, along with the "corporate partners" whether the school will participate. Sean Miller comes into Arizona and says "this is a place where I can win", and hits the recruiting path and sees that there are no hangups...he just needs to do his job and the kids come. He knows. But it isn't like the coaching staff checks in with the boosters and has a meeting about pay rates and all of that. It. Just. Happens.

And it happens at any school that wants to be successful, and at schools that aren't successful. Maybe an unsuccessful school hasn't paid a player for a while. Or hasn't paid a top player. Because they can't win the right. Not because they don't want to, or don't do that. Again, it isn't like the coach coordinates that. The coaches have an idea of what their program's tolerance is, but they go and recruit, and the work is done behind the scenes and when a kid cuts to their final 20 or 10 that signals to go forward...but if the school never gets top recruits, they never pay top level money. A top school is paying way more, but because they are getting the commitment of all 5 stars. An ASU, for example, would be in the game and willing, and do when they get that occasional 4 and 5 star. And they are paying for their 3 stars, but not as much. But their overall paid out is much lower because they aren't winning the recruiting battle. If Bobby Hurley pulled a 5 player, all 5 star class in 2019, their boosters would be paying for it. They have a shoe contract...they have boosters. If it was out of the tolerance of their money people, Hurley wouldn't win the recruiting battle. But at that level, yeah...ASU would probably pay a bonus over the top to get that kind of class. But, again...it wouldn't be the school.

[dmjcat]

Serious rationalizing occurring on this message board.

Legitimate question here: So what? So stop confusing dreaming/rationalizing with facts

Surprised the "Fire Miller NOW" folks are even sticking around here. What's the point?

I am definitely NOT for firing Miller.........at this point. If it turns out he knew what Book was doing he's toast

[Olsondogg]

So you really believe the NCAA is going to allow the UA to waltz into the 2018 tourney knowing we have a PAID player on our roster????

They'll never let that happen. But if they do, they will definitely get to the investigation later and vacate the title.

Sincerely,

Cam Newton's 2010-11 Auburn national title team

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cam_Newton" target="_blank

(See eligibility issues at bottom, in case you forgot)

Except that the NCAA didn't have Cam Newton ON TAPE!!

The UA is done with the Tourney for at least a year.

The NCAA doesn’t have him on tape. The fbi does you dolt

[Hank of sb]

Serious rationalizing occurring on this message board.

Legitimate question here: So what?

Surprised the "Fire Miller NOW" folks are even sticking around here. What's the point?

What, we're not alumni still?

Or is it just one viewpoint allowed?

[rgdeuce]

For as shitty, sudden and recent as this situation is, there is a hell of a lot of informed people here dropping a ton of knowledge that makes it a lot easier to back away from the ledge. Just let things unfold and worry about the sanctions and all the other potentially negative stuff after this wildfire has continued to spread for a while.

[BE4RDOWN21]

What's a UofA BBall season without some preseason drama.

[EVCat]

We agree to disagree.

This is what we ACTUALLY know:

1) The UA (Book) got caught red handed doing really bad stuff as defined by the NCAA (some other colleges got caught too).
2) The NCAA has a record of whacking Colleges that engage in really bad stuff
3) See #1

Everything else on this board is anonymous message board poster crap.

Peace.

We also know the shoe companies pay AAU programs, and those contracts are based on winning and exposure, and the shoe companies attempt to snag the best players as future endorsers and preach brand loyalty.

We also know those shoe companies leave none of this process up to chance, spending insane amounts of money to administer the camps, tournaments, and to keep the top clubs under contract.

We also know from the mouths of the people in charge of this arm of the shoe companies that established AAU that money is thrown at players. We also know that there have been cases where players have lost eligibility for being caught accepting money at this level.

We also know that the shoe companies have a vested interest in getting a return on their investment.

We also know from this case that coaches were paid by shoe companies to steer players to certain agents and financial advisors...and there cannot be any reason the shoe companies did this unless there was a belief that the particular agent/advisors were friendly to the shoe company and would receive something in return.

So we really actually know so much more than what you stated. Now, there are logical conclusions that we can make. If you are not willing to accept that the shoe companies that invest all of this money, and the boosters who pay for new arenas and stadiums and insane 7 figure coaching salaries, have a vested interest in ensuring their roster of schools/school does well, then no one can make you accept that.

But I do think it is pretty insane to think this much money is spent on controlling every step of the process except the college piece, and the shoe companies and boosters are not going to work in concert to make sure their interests are met through financial enticement, or that there are only a few who do this, and the others all just make it on sweat and love of the game and school. That players who went to a lower level, non paying school, would stay there when there was money to be had at these 5 or 6 (or 4) evil schools that paid.

We already know they were paying coaches at the college level to steer players to agents, but they stay out of this process, and just let a kid they have raised in the Adidas clubs and have spent $100s of thousand on in travel, board, product, choose wherever they want to play, without financial enticement to go to a branded school. And the boosters who spend so much on infrastructure, who give fortunes just to put a name on a building at their alma mater, are going to stop there and not participate in acquiring talent even though other schools are.

See...there is a lot more we actually do know, and that lot more we do know supports that we are not some kind of anomaly here. That a school the talent level of Auburn is doing this...not just UK and UNC and Arizona...should tell you schools that are better than them and like them and somewhat worse than them are also doing this. But I suppose this is like everything else in this world...if you don't want to believe, you won't, even if there is reasonable paths to that belief, even really strongly supported paths. Short of affidavits from the top 100 schools in the country that they do this, you won't believe. But it is false to say the things you listed are all we know about this process. And when you take everything we actually know about this process, and about the past, and the programs who have been caught cheating by an understaffed organization with no incentive to catch widespread cheating (NCAA), it makes sense.

[gumby]

Guys it simple. Clean program is the one that did not get caught ...

But if you said Arizona was corrupt day before yesterday, you would've been hit with a firehose of posts.

They were clean then.

Got me there. Timing is everything.

[97cats]

^^^^^^^^^lmmfao^^^^^^^^^^^

[gumby]

What's a UofA BBall season without some preseason drama.

"Other than that, Mrs. Lincoln, how did you like the show?"

[NYCat]

if Ayton signs with Adidas when he turns pro..

Whew lord

[rgdeuce]

Guys it simple. Clean program is the one that did not get caught ...

But if you said Arizona was corrupt day before yesterday, you would've been hit with a firehose of posts.

They were clean then.

Got me there. Timing is everything.

Arent you so glad to live an honest, law abiding life. Can you imagine being anyone even remotely close to all this stuff right now? I bet even some of the guys who supply the involved with coke and weed are flushing their shit and hiding their money.

[gumby]

Guys it simple. Clean program is the one that did not get caught ...

But if you said Arizona was corrupt day before yesterday, you would've been hit with a firehose of posts.

When we say corrupt, is that graded on the curve or not?

I posted that Arizona was not 100% clean in the Pitino thread in arch-rivals. Whether we're dirty depends on whether you're comparing us to the ideal or the actual norm.

Should've been in the Unpopular Opinions thread.

[YoDeFoe]

Arent you so glad to live an honest, law abiding life. Can you imagine being anyone even remotely close to all this stuff right now? I bet even some of the guys who supply the involved with coke and weed are flushing their shit and hiding their money.

I've got a buddy who did time because he called up another guy who was under DEA investigation. Got caught on a wire that day, became a person of interest, and then got his door kicked in. Ended up doing most of a three year bid in Terre Haute.

I try to tell people that shit all the time; don't assume because you're small potatoes that you can text and talk freely about illegal shit. You never know who is listening in on the people you're talking to.

[CalStateTempe]

I think worst case from the current indictment is what dmjcat described, in some fashion.

What is outstanding could shake the whole system loose though.

Nassir Little was listed as being in a bidding war between Miami and Arizona, and was until yesterday a silent Arizona commit/lean. So did we pay him or make commitments to pay him, and if so via who in the program - Book again?

Nike just got raided. More shit could come tumbling out of those raids.

Indicted coaches could start talking. Book has been with Miller the whole ride. If anyone knows where the bodies are buried, it's Book.

I said it earlier, but I doubt Book rolls on anyone, let alone Miller. New York dudes are taught to not snitch, and hes not going to get a lot of time if he takes a regular plea deal.. Another interesting angle, I may be wrong on this, but part of being the "Book" at a program (and see Dan Dakitch's (sp?) comment about there being 100 programs w a "Book") likely means you were judged as a loyal guy who will take the fall if shit goes south. All that in addition to the other measures of insulation. Perhaps thats even an unwritten agreement. Essentially part of the job function may be what is referred to as a "weed carrier." You know, the guy who holds the rappers or ballplayers weed, so in case they get pulled over, the weed carrier gets the possession rap and does the time instead of the powerful person who owns the weed.

I dunno I don't have a lot of faith in books intelligence. He strikes me as a very stupid man.

Even if he doesn't intent to roll, his lack of brain power may cause himself to get tripped up and roll anyways.

[gumby]

I would argue that we didnt know anything about this 48 hours ago. It was a secret FBI sting over two years. So now to assume everyone is getting raided and more info comes out soon would seem odd vs how it was handled in the past. NCAA is to small to look into everything. Change in the future would have to come though. Its just not every school is going to be dragged through the dirt.

I would argue that the FBI released the info that they wanted you to know, or that they indicted who they needed to move forward in another direction...

I mean people really think this is done and the NCAA is moving in now? The fucking last thing the NCAA wanted was this...

Spot on, as you have been throughout the thread. Feds and DOJ will sit on cases for years sometimes. It's all about timing and getting your ducks in order so you can take down the next ones who are the next step up.

So you really believe the NCAA is going to allow the UA to waltz into the 2018 tourney knowing we have a PAID player on our roster????
Not to mention all of the other stuff Book got caught doing?

They might not officially (and completely) sanction us by March 2018 but they will certainly NOT allow us to participate.

Serious rationalizing occurring on this message board.

This is persuasive.

[EVCat]

Certainly didn't know $150k was the going rate for a star player. I suspect others didn't either or they wouldn't have mocked other schools when they were caught with what looks like low-level violations compared to $150k -- loans, plane tickets, etc. What was the point of calling other schools/coaches corrupt when we were, too?

Like I said, either did I. I didn't know what the going rate was, or how it all functions.

But if you know shoe companies fund AAU and you know why they do, you know the shit is dirty. How much they pay is really inconsequential. So, yeah...you knew. And you still cheered for us. You knew there was some shady stuff going on in college basketball...the exact pay rate isn't important. We weren't any different. You just chose to not think about it and how much money was being thrown at youth sports and how there was probably a reason? I dunno.

The schools who we called "corrupt" were the ones where the schools...coaches, staff...actually got involved. The great John Wooden had a bag man. But John Wooden didn't get dirty. Lute didn't meet with Jim Click to see who was getting paid. It just happens. Coaches call it "support". "This community is really supportive. Our alumni are really supportive." But how could it not be happening. Why would a major booster give $75MM for a building but not $100K for a player? When they know every other school is? If you want to win, you do this...so why would a booster give enough money to fund half the school's tuition to make the sports team more competitive with other schools, but not do something that small to make the team competitive with other schools? YEah...it is against the rules. But it is the rule, too. I am sure they all learn that.

And the shoe companies...they have all this money in. And they apparently pay to direct kids to friendly agents. Why would they leave this, the most important step, when the talent is identified, up to chance?

It isn't like the school is actively doing this. But any team that wins has people who are doing this for them, without them being involved. It just is...and you don't ask about it. The Tarks and Pitinos and the ones we called dirty were the ones who participated. They can't stop it...the school belongs to boosters more than a coach. But they don't have to be a part of it. The ones that were...we considered them dirty.

[VegasCatFan]

I'm guessing Rick Rickert's mom got some of this money back in the day to make her kid go to Minnesota?

[Jefe]

AAU got us PJC. Blow the whole system to smithereens!

[AztoCa]

Miller is as clean of a coach that we will ever have ( he has never directly violated any rules )

[97cats]

Miller is as clean of a coach that we will ever have ( he has never directly violated any rules )

i would agree with this -- other than lack of institutional control pertaining to Book...in 2013 the rules changed and the Head Coach became responsible for everything in the program, including assistant coach transgressions or improprieties on the recruiting trail.

[Chicat]

Serious rationalizing occurring on this message board.

Legitimate question here: So what?

Surprised the "Fire Miller NOW" folks are even sticking around here. What's the point?

What, we're not alumni still?

Or is it just one viewpoint allowed?

What I am saying is, if you've got all the info you need, why argue? Why participate at all in anything related to Arizona Basketball until the slate is wiped clean with Miller's firing? I'd be on the football board.

Will you watch the games if Miller is still coaching?

[Jefe]

http://www.azcentral.com/story/sports/2 ... 710021001/" target="_blank

Bickley: Tucson bracing for its darkest moment after NCAA basketball scandal

For too long, college basketball has been two different games. One transpired on a hardwood court. The other took place under a table.
The dirty charade is finally over.
Four assistant coaches at major Division I programs have been arrested on allegations of fraud and bribery. The pay-for-play scandal has already cost Rick Pitino his job at Louisville.
Arizona head coach Sean Miller could be next.
Scandals don’t get any bigger. Or less surprising.
The funneling of cash to blue-chip recruits has long been college basketball’s worst-kept secret. Even legendary coach John Wooden had his own bag man, Sam Gilbert, who took care of UCLA players on the side. But this time, the FBI is running the show, not a team of toothless NCAA investigators.
A giant shoe company is involved. Cooperating witnesses seeking to lessen their own punishment could sing like birds at sunrise, doing more than expanding the scope of this story and exposing the dark underbelly of college basketball.
It could burn this sport to the ground.
This is a traumatic time for Tucson, a sleepy city that has staked much of its reputation and civic esteem on a powerhouse program that Lute Olson built from scratch. Miller, an intense head coach with a reputation for successfully recruiting the nation’s best players, had magically restored Arizona’s status as an elite basketball school.
Like most Division I coaches, he is a control freak, overseeing every detail.
Is it plausible he didn’t know that one of his longest-tenured assistants was corrupt? Oblivious to a guy on his own bench paying recruits to play basketball in the desert?
It doesn’t seem likely. But now is not the time for assumptions. It’s time for Miller to explain what he knows and how this could’ve happened in Tucson. There were more crickets than revelations on Tuesday, when Arizona canceled its annual Media Day event, which was set for Wednesday.
Even if it doesn’t cost him his job, Miller’s program will surely take a big hit. He was expected to field a championship-caliber team in 2017-18, a group that could’ve brought the talented coach his first Final Four appearance. His current team might’ve been ranked No. 1 before the FBI’s bombshell, allegations that could spark NCAA sanctions and the exodus of highly talented players who are looking to transfer to a safe haven.
Pitino gets no sympathy here. He deserves his dismissal. His resume at Louisville is marred by scandal and salacious behavior. He once again acted shocked and unaware by unflattering details that happened under his watch, but plausible deniability doesn’t fly with the FBI.
Miller, on the other hand, is one of the sport’s brightest young coaches. His greatest sin seemed to be losing the really big games and sweating through dress shirts. He never seemed like the sort who would cheat to win.
But this is really bad. Even though Arizona’s basketball program is often loathed and ridiculed in the Valley, a region dominated by Arizona State alumni, the Wildcats' success was breathtaking and undeniable. Their program was once a shining star in State 48, proof that Arizona can produce a title contender in college basketball.
Now, their reputation has been sullied. The worst could be on its way. And the only silver lining for Wildcats fans is really no consolation at all.
Namely, that there are no recent NCAA championships to vacate.

[Harvey Specter]

I'm guessing Rick Rickert's mom got some of this money back in the day to make her kid go to Minnesota?

It was Rickert's Dad who coerced him to UM. And it seems obvious now they would have gotten money for Rick to come to Arizona...