Bribery Scandal - FBI Probe - Book Richardson Involved

[gumby]

Day 4

http://tucson.com/sports/arizonawildcat ... 688.html#3" target="_blank

From the Alabama/Byrne article, it would appear Greg's review is finished and an administrator the only one dirty. That was fast. This is what stuck out at me.

https://sports.yahoo.com/alabama-caught ... 59682.html" target="_blank

The purpose of the meeting, according to the complaint, was for Baker to make introductions between the player’s father and the financial adviser, and ultimately steer the prospect to him once he entered the NBA draft. The complaint says the feds’ cooperating witness gave Michel $10,000 that was to be given to Baker for arranging the meeting.

For someone who formerly worked as one of the NCAA rules cops to be caught up in this, on the heels of the bombshell dropped by the feds Tuesday, hints at the profound credibility problems facing the sport. Baker worked in NCAA enforcement from October 2014 to September 2015, according to his LinkedIn bio. He then joined the Alabama athletic department that September.

So incestuous. Blow it up. When our best hope is the cops are dirty, too ... ugh.

If the NCAA wants to cover up its knowledge of sleaze, it might go for a few scalps (ours being one) and then move on. I would hope Arizona would NOT play along in order to preserve status quo. I want to see the "Everybody Does It" defense from anyone who is charged or sanctioned. I want them to name names if the NCAA tries to contain this.

Gatto and Code are the real threats to the status quo. Most of the comments to date are based on the DOJ complaint. Code has worked for Nike and Adidas. I seriously doubt he would take the fall. He's facing a lot of time. He has family. If I were him, I'd be loyal to family, not the swamp.

I'm just not seeing how the NCAA is going to come out of this without being set ablaze. Which would be good news to us. And on any appeals/lawsuits that get before a court.

Just wonder if individual schools feel the same. They may go for firings and self-sanctions because they feel like the NCAA will remain as is and must be satisfied.

Plus, who sets this blaze? Doubt it would be self-immolation. Just going to take this mountain of money that this entire system is built upon and burn it? If fans are just fixated on their coaches and their programs, they're going to want a couple of schools torched, not this whole thing. We'd be one of those schools. In the meantime, some other school that's knee deep in the Big Muddy is crowned champs. Screw that.

So I'm rooting for Code and Gatto to sing. The sooner they do, the sooner this can be rebuilt into something we're happy to accept, not resigned to live with.

Burn. It. Down.

[CatHoops]

For a coach making bad decisions for his own personal gain?

[azcat49]

Dick Vitale 

✔@DickieV

Have known SEAN MILLER @APlayersProgramfor many yrs & I would be shocked if he was aware of his ass't CHEATING! 

2:52 PM - Sep 29, 2017 · Tampa, FL

He's back pedaling!!!

Still going to teabag his corpse.

That might be the single funniest thing I have ever read here. I am seriously Roflmao at the thought of that

[CatFanOneMil]

Here's the problem with a lot of this, the FBI is borderline over-reach in their claims, honestly any one of the coaches could make a solid case AGAINST the FBI claims because the NCAA is actually running a price-fixing scheme through the Universities and the student athletes, it is not the FBI's job to enforce the NCAA conditions (which in fact may actually be illegal to begin with)...

Here's what I see shaking out of it...none of the coaches indicted will challenge, they will all plead and will turn on the same handful of players the FBI already has, it will be a circle jerk of confessions and each individual "detainee" of the feds will play for the best deal...most will do very little jail time...we are not talking millions here in bribes the actual affidavits are all below 500k in white collar crime.

The NCAA will go back to business as usual because this is a very complicated issue...for instance if they do decide to change are they then culpable for all the players in the last 20 years who did not get compensated? Think reparations here...ain't gonna happen...and the NCAA will structure the next thing to preserve as much of the cash cow as they can, there MIGHT be a move to limit the influence of shoe companies and uniforms at the universities, but there will always be someone crying "That money helps non-athletes too!"

Remember the NCAA is a vast disorganized circle jerk itself with more rules than tools, the only reason the FBI showed up here is because the NCAA lacks the power to subpoena and get wiretaps/etc...you CAN expect that to be addressed...but play that down the road as well...

Was Miller and every head coach expected to have a subpoena in hand and a wiretap on Books phone? I mean according to their rule he is responsible, but without due process even BOOK has a contract with stipulations and a framework for dismissal...it's not like Miller could have fired Book because he had a feeling in his gut, do you see the problem yet?

Everyone calling for Millers head, let me ask you that question WHAT WAS HE SUPPOSED TO DO WITH NO HARD EVIDENCE???I mean for fucks sake the FBI HAD TO RUN A STING OPERATION TO CATCH BOOK.

None of this is enforceable, and yet none of it is non-essential to the size the machine has gotten to...its basically like toll roads, initially every toll road charged a fee to pay for the road, but after 50 years that fee becomes part of an expected budget, they generally don't stop collecting tolls after the road is paid for...same thing here...the colleges now depend on the shoe money to much to consider living without it and the back side of that is there is no way they can afford to admit they owe former players anything at all, admission of guilt opens them up to huge lawsuits...

[CatFanOneMil]

Consider this...I get that lawyers make a business out of spin, but according to the way our justice system works, you can be sure that by now Pitinos lawyers have the discovery required by law, in other words they have the hard evidence against him...and they are claiming the FBI have nothing against Rick Pitino...this leads me to believe that Rick will sue Louisville for his full package and he might have a decent chance of getting it...this also leads me to believe that there is a possible "other" motive behind all this FBI mess...its a really nice distraction with cute charts and an Elliot Ness feel good media moment to an otherwise beleaguered agency, given Comey and others getting canned...

Here's the quote from Pitinos legal team:

On Wednesday, Pitino's lawyers said that "the information disclosed thus far in the investigation is clearly insufficient to implicate Coach Pitino in any type of misconduct or other activity that would violate the terms of his contract. In sum, Coach Pitino has done nothing wrong and there is no evidence to suggest otherwise."

If this is true, (and there is plenty of reason to believe that these lawyers are now working with a full evidence disclosure, by law they get everything the FBI has on RP) it sounds like the FBI was really hoping to see a lot more people volunteer and come forward...

[CatHoops]

I've heard other people in the legal world say the same thing.

[CatHoops]

Pitino was on strike three though and is on the wire tap with gatto. Far different then what evidence we know of against Sean Miller

[CalStateTempe]

Great then we are even more fucked when this gets to the NCAA and conference level.

[CalStateTempe]

To my knowledge there is no evidence against sean Miller, only book.

[CatHoops]

I say the small fish get off pretty easy. GATTO will get slammed if CAN is correct he's been vocal in the past about them for this type of thing

[CatHoops]

CAN=CSM damn auto correct

[CatHoops]

As far as us getting sanctioned by the ncaa prob comes down to what Book says he did with the cash he received to funnel players to that agency. It's most likely in cash so come on Book BTFD and let's party like he'll in Texas.. April 2018

[CalStateTempe]

1. As mentioned before, I am more worried about what the NCAA will do rather than what the FBI will do/has done.

2. I don't think the "calvary is coming" as in more schools will be publicly implicated. I think the FBI investigation will take a while so we'll have this season as a minimum, but once they close, the NCAA will come after us, as one of the schools caught with egg on our face, HARD.

3. I'm going to enjoy the season as if it's our last, cause big wheels keep on turning...

4. It is what it is and I think we'll be alright so long as we don't do something on knee jerk and stupid such as Fire Miller to placate idiotic nervous nellies who care about nebulous ideals such as "reputation" and "perception".

[Irish27]

I think after the UofA's investigation has been completed, they will probably come up with a loss of a couple of scholarships and a one-year ban of postseason play. The NCAA will approve the penalties and we can all move on.

[CatFanOneMil]

1. As mentioned before, I am more worried about what the NCAA will do rather than what the FBI will do/has done.

2. I don't think the "calvary is coming" as in more schools will be publicly implicated. I think the FBI investigation will take a while so we'll have this season as a minimum, but once they close, the NCAA will come after us, as one of the schools caught with egg on our face, HARD.

3. I'm going to enjoy the season as if it's our last, cause big wheels keep on turning...

4. It is what it is and I think we'll be alright so long as we don't do something on knee jerk and stupid such as Fire Miller to placate idiotic nervous nellies who care about nebulous ideals such as "reputation" and "perception".

I think that is possible...but lets also remember that as long as Miller TRIED to create an atmosphere of compliance and has records (like for instance reprimanding Book for coloring outside the lines in the past, which is also a state requirement for state employees if they are ever written up) then the NCAA also faces repercussions from a known fighter...

Miller kinda rolled over for them last year during the whole Trier thing, he did nothing wrong then and did nothing wrong now (as I currently believe) I cannot imagine he would simply lay down and let them fuck him this time and this actually plays a little in our favor I think...mainly because by the time it comes around the NCAA is going to want it to go away quietly, they already look like baboons who need big brother to hold their hands as long as Miller pushes back and has lawyers ready there's a good chance that Pitinos situation makes them gun shy...Pitino looks like he's gonna go down swinging...and after that fight they may want to just get back to selling shoes like the old days, Miller has played ball for them before so there is also the chance that they reward his past compliance in order to move along nothing to see here.

[gumby]

What crime again? This is predicated on believing there were victims. They say the schools and families were the victims, which suggests these victims are clueless to all of these machinations that go into landing players.

Defense attorneys could be the ones who blow this up by proving that to be B.S. At which point, settlements are sought or this whole shebang is exposed.

See this.

https://www.si.com/college-basketball/2 ... on-scandal" target="_blank

Big legal battles ahead. I see a lot of defense victories. And it would be incredibly sad if someone did jail time when all the white collar criminals in the housing meltdown walked.

Question is, what does NCAA do in the meantime? What do schools do? For our purposes -- apologies if anyone is a friend of Book -- what matters is if the NCAA is able to retain the charade. AAU and shoe companies should be dealing with NBA, not colleges.

There's a reason there aren't recruiting scandals in college baseball. Incentives removed. The wrong reaction is, "Well, we can't make the NBA take players sooner. Can't make them wait longer. Can't do anything. So, it is what it is." Translation: let's continue to be their bitch.

If that's the case, blow it up. Think the NBA will just go without a pipeline? No, it will adjust and form its own pipeline.

P.S. Have an attorney friend who wonders how this is a crime. Some judges might wonder the same.

[gumby]

All of the above predictions on what will occur are predicated on this complaint being the extent of what the feds have. They recently seized Andy Miller's computer (big-time agent), they will put the screws to Gatto and Code. If those guys and others talk, more dominoes will fall.

Or, their attys will prove there wasn't a crime.

None of which helps Arizona. Cat out of bag.

[Merkin]

[dmjcat]

1. As mentioned before, I am more worried about what the NCAA will do rather than what the FBI will do/has done.

2. I don't think the "calvary is coming" as in more schools will be publicly implicated. I think the FBI investigation will take a while so we'll have this season as a minimum, but once they close, the NCAA will come after us, as one of the schools caught with egg on our face, HARD.

3. I'm going to enjoy the season as if it's our last, cause big wheels keep on turning...

4. It is what it is and I think we'll be alright so long as we don't do something on knee jerk and stupid such as Fire Miller to placate idiotic nervous nellies who care about nebulous ideals such as "reputation" and "perception".

This.

The only question is when the penalties will hit. The FBI investigation is ongoing and the NCAA moves at a rather slow pace (and will have to investigate multiple schools). We could sail through this season and get hammered next year.........or..........the NCAA could just use the FBI findings and decide they constitute sufficient reason to immediately ban us from 2018 post-season play. Remember, the NCAA is not a legal/judicial body and has never demanded court-room level proof/evidence to sentence/sanction rule breakers in the past. The FBI findings might be sufficient.

The other wild card is our friend Larry Scott. He might just decide to jump the gun and not wait for the NCAA.......he could declare us ineligible for the PAC12 title and ban us from the PAC12 tournament. Anyone who believes that he is going to kiss Miller on the cheek and forgive the UA please PM me and let me know what you are smoking.

There is also the possibility of Self-Imposed sanctions. A number of posters have poo-pooed the idea or very notion of Self imposed penalties but please remember that the UA Administration (and academicians) and the ABOR (Arizona Board of Regents) have very different standards than the average BearDownWildcats message board poster. Self Imposed sanctions could happen anytime after the schools internal investigation is completed.............which I hope is around the 2nd week in April.

I am still seeing posters in denial.........."Everyone does it".........."Schools are the victims"............."They can't punish everyone"............"Miller didn't do anything"......."What crime has been committed?" but I suspect the NCAA will find these arguments rather specious. We are going to get clobbered.

[MountainCat]

The odds that Krzyzewski is a RAT: 1/1

....Just saying!

[phenom5]

I don't disagree dmj. Unless the scope of this grows, UA could get hammered b/c they were named in the initial charges. Or UA could self-impose sanctions, that many will call an overreaction, but that has been the norm for stemming bigger punishment from the NCAA for years. The NCAA could still impose penalties on top of that, largely because of the high-profile nature of this case. Especially if more bigtime programs aren't implicated in all of this.

My hope is that we ride out this season (to a championship!), and then don't get too hammered once the dust settles.

[CatHoops]

Idk the biggest crime I see is when gatto says he needs to create fake purchase orders to get the money from Adidas. That would seem to open up a problem of money laundering and some tax problems which is why the fbi got involved. When the fbi says the universities, administrators (CSM) and the players are the victims of the rogue group the ncaa should consider that before penalizing programs

[gumby]

I already got hammered.

I try to imagine us playing with the current roster when there is a heavy suggestion that one of them (at least) is ineligible. USC has two such players. Couldn't the conference, school or NCAA just ask: "Who are they?" Wouldn't the other schools say, "Hey, we know they have illegal guys. This affects our games, standings, seeds."

Don't see how this would hurt a legal case. Only reason they weren't named, I would assume, is that the feds perceive them to be victims. For its purposes, the NCAA wouldn't care. Clear violation; you're gone.

UA investigation won't take as long as the NCAA's. A player or two could be gone before Red-Blue. What excuse would the school have for continuing to let a player play? We can say, "fuck it, we'll take the sanctions later," but we're not the ones held accountable.

Dmjcat is right. This will be decided by people who aren't message board fanatics.

[CatHoops]

That's where the ncaa and the internal investigation comes in. Cash payments aren't easy to follow unless someone admits to getting it

[CatHoops]

Ya who knows Pac 12 media day should be interesting

[phenom5]

I already got hammered.

I try to imagine us playing with the current roster when there is a heavy suggestion that one of them (at least) is ineligible. USC has two such players. Couldn't the conference, school or NCAA just ask: "Who are they?" Wouldn't the other schools say, "Hey, we know they have illegal guys. This affects our games, standings, seeds."

Don't see how this would hurt a legal case. Only reason they weren't named, I would assume, is that the feds perceive them to be victims. For its purposes, the NCAA wouldn't care. Clear violation; you're gone.

UA investigation won't take as long as the NCAA's. A player or two could be gone before Red-Blue. What excuse would the school have for continuing to let a player play? We can say, "fuck it, we'll take the sanctions later," but we're not the ones held accountable.

Dmjcat is right. This will be decided by people who aren't message board fanatics.

I would be okay with losing a player or 2. If it helps with the long term optics I could live with that.

In the last week I've stared into the abyss, and I don't like it.

[CalStateTempe]

Ya who knows Pac 12 media day should be interesting

October 11-12.

Clocks ticking.

[In re UofA]

97, I have been thinking about your recent opinion that it would not be easy for Miller to keep his job. You had been so confident the day (or hours) before that he was safe. I'd love to know if it was a single event that you became aware of or if it was a collective reaction of the public (media) that changed your opinion? I join the sentiments previously shared that the local media is eating this up, especially Zach Clark who openly cries about Miller not going on his show. I hope you're reading btw.

So, was it because Miller came clean to the President and AD of the university as to the standard pay for play that had been going on? They may have been as naive as I had been

[IT'S STILL REAL TO ME, DAMMIT ... 97 Cats, THANKS FOR SAYIN WHAT NEEDED TO BE SAID]

Thanks to the board for providing compelling content. Love this place.

[Longhorned]

I work directly with Div 1 men's basketball players, and my time gets eaten doing things required to maintain my Big 10 institution's compliance with the NCAA. From my perspective, what happened at UNC was unconscionable. They got caught manufacturing fake classes to give out fake degrees at an accredited R1 university.

If Arizona gets hammered, fine, I suppose that's fair. And if Arizona self-sanctions, then I guess that's how it goes. But can somebody explain to me how that happens while UNC skates?

UNC = systemic academic fraud that drove their basketball success

Arizona = an apparently rogue assistant coach, and some allegations and suspicions yet to be investigated, which concern outside money going to a player.

[prh]

I work directly with Div 1 men's basketball players, and my time gets eaten doing things required to maintain my Big 10 institution's compliance with the NCAA. From my perspective, what happened at UNC was unconscionable. They got caught manufacturing fake classes to give out fake degrees at an accredited R1 university.

If Arizona gets hammered, fine, I suppose that's fair. And if Arizona self-sanctions, then I guess that's how it goes. But can somebody explain to me how that happens while UNC skates?

UNC = systemic academic fraud that drove their basketball success

Arizona = an apparently rogue assistant coach, and some allegations and suspicions yet to be investigated, which concern outside money going to a player.

This brings up an interesting thought experiment. NCAA makes a big deal about "amateurism" and "student-athletes." I wonder, if it had to choose, would it prefer 1) paid students or 2) unpaid amateur athletes (who aren't students).

[TJATUA]

I work directly with Div 1 men's basketball players, and my time gets eaten doing things required to maintain my Big 10 institution's compliance with the NCAA. From my perspective, what happened at UNC was unconscionable. They got caught manufacturing fake classes to give out fake degrees at an accredited R1 university.

If Arizona gets hammered, fine, I suppose that's fair. And if Arizona self-sanctions, then I guess that's how it goes. But can somebody explain to me how that happens while UNC skates?

UNC = systemic academic fraud that drove their basketball success

Arizona = an apparently rogue assistant coach, and some allegations and suspicions yet to be investigated, which concern outside money going to a player.

Yeah, people are jumping off the deep end looking to excoriate Arizona, no shock mostly from our baby brother in Tempe. I'm surprised, given the information available, about the mere mention of Miller getting fired. He's never been caught of any wrongdoing; and if the report is all that implicates UofA, this was a rogue effort by an assistant coach. Sure, accuse Miller of lack of institutional control, but that would be so dumb on the surface.

[TJATUA]

Reporting "AZ pays recruit 150k" is far from fact. It's lazy headline reporting.

Yeah, AZDS has had a rough week with headlines and stories. The Scottie Young fiasco was basically obliterated by his girlfriend on Twitter.

[enfuego]

I think after the UofA's investigation has been completed, they will probably come up with a loss of a couple of scholarships and a one-year ban of postseason play. The NCAA will approve the penalties and we can all move on.

Your assistant coach(es) paid two current players on roster and Quinerly. Arizona will get the death penalty for at least one season and loss of scholarships for a few years.

Question is whether Miller gets any sanctions out of this due to the rule where the head coach is liable for the actions of his assistants/program whether he has knowledge of infractions or not. The ignorance of the law is not a defense NCAA rule.

[CalStateTempe]

Thank you enteugo for yet again bringing up the 2013 rule that was mentioned on like page 5 on this thread. Welcome to Saturday with this saga.

Glad to see your back to your classic form with your latest post.

[Chicat]

I think after the UofA's investigation has been completed, they will probably come up with a loss of a couple of scholarships and a one-year ban of postseason play. The NCAA will approve the penalties and we can all move on.

Your assistant coach(es) paid two current players on roster and Quinerly. Arizona will get the death penalty for at least one season and loss of scholarships for a few years.

Question is whether Miller gets any sanctions out of this due to the rule where the head coach is liable for the actions of his assistants/program whether he has knowledge of infractions or not. The ignorance of the law is not a defense NCAA rule.

You seem to misunderstand the meaning of "death penalty".

[catgrad97]

I don't think anybody's understood the meaning of "death penalty" since what happened to SMU in the '80s.

Death penalty = the program is done. Not what happened to Penn State, and certainly not what's going to happen to most programs in this situation.

[TJATUA]

I think after the UofA's investigation has been completed, they will probably come up with a loss of a couple of scholarships and a one-year ban of postseason play. The NCAA will approve the penalties and we can all move on.

Your assistant coach(es) paid two current players on roster and Quinerly. Arizona will get the death penalty for at least one season and loss of scholarships for a few years.

Question is whether Miller gets any sanctions out of this due to the rule where the head coach is liable for the actions of his assistants/program whether he has knowledge of infractions or not. The ignorance of the law is not a defense NCAA rule.

Except for the fact that there is no confirmation from the complaint that two current players were paid.

[RichardCranium]

Jay Bilas audio: http://thebiglead.com/2017/09/28/jay-bilas-ncaa-fbi/" target="_blank

IIRC correctly it seems odd to me that there was a rumor that Ace of PGUflame had his computer confisticated by the FBI for some kind of tax evasion shit...sometime back in Feb. of last year....wouldn't it be ironic that the worst internet persona actually contributed to saving UA basketball by handing over Book from vegas hard drives? Maybe not directly, but you know..."Who's the guy in the photo, what do we know about him?"

Feb 18:

Wow the rumor is he shot himself in the head. He shut down his website, facebook, instagram due to the IRS finally coming down on him, and then didn't have a way out so he decided to end it all.

Feb 22:

[Ace suddently shut down the PGU website and twitter account. Rumor has it he offed himself due to IRS (or LV mob) troubles.

you seem reasonable, if they did, and there was hard evidence of that, wouldn't the FEDS have used that already?

So our current roster could be safe

I think AZ is gonna get hit by the NCAA no question, but its going to be for shit they did in the past or shit Sean Miller didn't do, not for what allegedly happened that didn't even happen.

oh, crap

alright, Dudes peace out till later -- my gut tells me Miller is gonna have a tough time surviving this.
if he does, he really is a Witch.

oh, shit

I'm curious if we poll this board what the results would be 65/35 keep Miller?

97/3

So you are saying Ace rolled on Book?

[Longhorned]

I think after the UofA's investigation has been completed, they will probably come up with a loss of a couple of scholarships and a one-year ban of postseason play. The NCAA will approve the penalties and we can all move on.

Your assistant coach(es) paid two current players on roster and Quinerly. Arizona will get the death penalty for at least one season and loss of scholarships for a few years.

Question is whether Miller gets any sanctions out of this due to the rule where the head coach is liable for the actions of his assistants/program whether he has knowledge of infractions or not. The ignorance of the law is not a defense NCAA rule.

My uncle Tad got the death penalty in Texas and he came back a year later, too. Started murdering old ladies again. Whatchoogonnadooo?

[RichardCranium]

Now we are talking about ace and pgu, lord almighty this truely is the megs thread to end all mega threads.

Old skool posters check
Trolling check
Premium info check
Missing posters checking back in check
Discussing of rival coaches check
Metaphors check
Life lessons check
Emotionality check
Fire current head coach or keep check
Discussion on integrity in sports vs winning st all costs check

Etc etc

What did I miss?

Rally tits?

FOR THE WIN

[Two Bits]

We have a relatively new University President and athletics director. Because they're still new to Arizona, I wonder if they can appreciate the loyalty of Arizona fans to the basketball program and to Sean Miller. I hope they don't view this as just a large cog in the overall university system and athletic department. Do they understand that the program built by Lute Olson IS the University of Arizona? Do they fully comprehend that without the basketball program, the U of A wouldn't have the brand recognition it enjoys? Do they understand that fans have loyally packed McKale Center for 30 years? Can they grasp that Arizona fans pack Las Vegas in March for the conference tourney? Because if they don't, they're liable to treat this as simply a business decision and make the move that many in the media and non-UA fans think they should make and fire Miller prematurely.

While I appreciate the fanatical perspective a dose of reality for a UA grad might be in order...

You could shut down the BB program tomorrow and the UofA would still be a world class university, hell just last week they successfully did some shit to a robot thingy out in space that is slingsnoting it around earth towards a rock or sumthin...(this was not the actual wording of the press release but pretty damn close)...

There are tons of advances attributed to this University every year that get swallowed up in the wake of "The best coach to never reach a FF" and lost to our attention...

World class health care in this town due in part to the University of Arizona

Other world class astronomy and archeology shit all the time...

I had major cutting edge dental holistic surgery this year from a former UA golfer/triathlete that got her Dental creds from UA...

All I'm saying is yes BB rules the attention and focus of this little desert town, without it we'd be stuck watching 4th street do its best to be San Francisco in desert drag, but the University has a name for itself that actually dwarves its athletic department you just have to know who to ask...I ask the Russian who runs lasers in the lab or the guy from India that came and did a 6 months math class, or the two exchange students From the University of FLorida who came just for our world class Arab language class...

I value tremendously the education and total student experience I had at the University of Arizona and would not trade it for anything in the world. I am proud of the many notable accomplishments that UA researchers have contributed. We have some exceptionally successful (and pretty highly visible) successful businessmen that we can claim as alumni.

We also have some very highly respected individual programs (which virtually every school does) I think our medical school is much more highly regarded, especially in Oncology & Cardiology (or st least they used to be), than many people realize.

But regardless of those factors, the view for most of the world outside Tucson - of the University as a whole - is that academically it is a mid-tier-at-best PAC-12 Instiution. Decent but not revered. Not in the same stratosphere as Stanford / Cal / USC / UCLA... considerably behind UW.... marginally behind UT & CO... generally on par with ASU... and marginally ahead of OSU / WSU.

Perception is reality, and perception is largely driven by brand recognition. Arizona Basketball has done more to expand the University of Arizona brand (with the General public) than any other facet of the University. If you are interviewing for a job (outside of a very highly specified scientific field)... a discussion about UA BB will build more rapport with a lot more people than a discussion of some obscure academic breakthrough.

I am not trying to rain on your parade... but for those of us that have pursued careers in commercial endeavors (which I and many others have) - Arizona Basketball has been a far more valuable asset in finding a topic for discussin to build rapport with a prospective employer, client, customer, or employee than any other aspect of the University.

Arizona Basketball matterss. A lot.

Great post. Right on the money.

[CatFanOneMil]

I think after the UofA's investigation has been completed, they will probably come up with a loss of a couple of scholarships and a one-year ban of postseason play. The NCAA will approve the penalties and we can all move on.

Your assistant coach(es) paid two current players on roster and Quinerly. Arizona will get the death penalty for at least one season and loss of scholarships for a few years.

Question is whether Miller gets any sanctions out of this due to the rule where the head coach is liable for the actions of his assistants/program whether he has knowledge of infractions or not. The ignorance of the law is not a defense NCAA rule.

My uncle Tad got the death penalty in Texas and he came back a year later, too. Started murdering old ladies again. Whatchoogonnadooo?

Someone has a Farside sense of humor...loved this reply.

[CatFanOneMil]

FBI on Monday be like:

[rgdeuce]

Day 4

http://tucson.com/sports/arizonawildcat ... 688.html#3" target="_blank

From the Alabama/Byrne article, it would appear Greg's review is finished and an administrator the only one dirty. That was fast. This is what stuck out at me.

https://sports.yahoo.com/alabama-caught ... 59682.html" target="_blank

The purpose of the meeting, according to the complaint, was for Baker to make introductions between the player’s father and the financial adviser, and ultimately steer the prospect to him once he entered the NBA draft. The complaint says the feds’ cooperating witness gave Michel $10,000 that was to be given to Baker for arranging the meeting.

For someone who formerly worked as one of the NCAA rules cops to be caught up in this, on the heels of the bombshell dropped by the feds Tuesday, hints at the profound credibility problems facing the sport. Baker worked in NCAA enforcement from October 2014 to September 2015, according to his LinkedIn bio. He then joined the Alabama athletic department that September.

So incestuous. Blow it up. When our best hope is the cops are dirty, too ... ugh.

If the NCAA wants to cover up its knowledge of sleaze, it might go for a few scalps (ours being one) and then move on. I would hope Arizona would NOT play along in order to preserve status quo. I want to see the "Everybody Does It" defense from anyone who is charged or sanctioned. I want them to name names if the NCAA tries to contain this.

Gatto and Code are the real threats to the status quo. Most of the comments to date are based on the DOJ complaint. Code has worked for Nike and Adidas. I seriously doubt he would take the fall. He's facing a lot of time. He has family. If I were him, I'd be loyal to family, not the swamp.

I'm just not seeing how the NCAA is going to come out of this without being set ablaze. Which would be good news to us. And on any appeals/lawsuits that get before a court.

Just wonder if individual schools feel the same. They may go for firings and self-sanctions because they feel like the NCAA will remain as is and must be satisfied.

Plus, who sets this blaze? Doubt it would be self-immolation. Just going to take this mountain of money that this entire system is built upon and burn it? If fans are just fixated on their coaches and their programs, they're going to want a couple of schools torched, not this whole thing. We'd be one of those schools. In the meantime, some other school that's knee deep in the Big Muddy is crowned champs. Screw that.

So I'm rooting for Code and Gatto to sing. The sooner they do, the sooner this can be rebuilt into something we're happy to accept, not resigned to live with.

Burn. It. Down.

The FBI or another agency finding they are complicit in all of this. We all know they are, hell look at one of the guys nabbed already (Baker?) and what he was doing for the NCAA a few years back. It's another entity congress can use as a punching bag to boost their horrible approval numbers (in their minds). Talk a big game, get them to put some band aids on it to fool the public into thinking everythings fixed, then let your buddies make money again.

[enfuego]

I don't think anybody's understood the meaning of "death penalty" since what happened to SMU in the '80s.

Death penalty = the program is done. Not what happened to Penn State, and certainly not what's going to happen to most programs in this situation.

Maybe the definition has changed, but it is pretty commonly considered what I posted above.

"The NCAA has not used the "death penalty" — removal of a repeat-violator program's right to compete for at least a year— to punish a Division I athletics program since February 1987 against Southern Methodist football.

Could Louisville men's basketball be facing the death penalty?" http://www.azcentral.com/story/sports/c ... 705030001/" target="_blank

I can find you other current links where the interpreted definition is the same.

My post was in response to the poster who thinks that Arizona is going to only get a slap on the wrist. Maybe in today's NCAA enforcement environment that is true, but I think it will be more severe. Paying players is a cardinal sin.

[ASUHATER!]

I don't think anybody's understood the meaning of "death penalty" since what happened to SMU in the '80s.

Death penalty = the program is done. Not what happened to Penn State, and certainly not what's going to happen to most programs in this situation.

Maybe the definition has changed, but it is pretty commonly considered what I posted above.

"The NCAA has not used the "death penalty" — removal of a repeat-violator program's right to compete for at least a year— to punish a Division I athletics program since February 1987 against Southern Methodist football.

Could Louisville men's basketball be facing the death penalty?" http://www.azcentral.com/story/sports/c ... 705030001/" target="_blank

I can find you other current links where the interpreted definition is the same.

My post was in response to the poster who thinks that Arizona is going to only get a slap on the wrist. Maybe in today's NCAA enforcement environment that is true, but I think it will be more severe. Paying players is a cardinal sin.

A cardinal sin that everyone does including Kansas

[CatFanOneMil]

I don't think anybody's understood the meaning of "death penalty" since what happened to SMU in the '80s.

Death penalty = the program is done. Not what happened to Penn State, and certainly not what's going to happen to most programs in this situation.

Maybe the definition has changed, but it is pretty commonly considered what I posted above.

"The NCAA has not used the "death penalty" — removal of a repeat-violator program's right to compete for at least a year— to punish a Division I athletics program since February 1987 against Southern Methodist football.

Could Louisville men's basketball be facing the death penalty?" http://www.azcentral.com/story/sports/c ... 705030001/" target="_blank

I can find you other current links where the interpreted definition is the same.

My post was in response to the poster who thinks that Arizona is going to only get a slap on the wrist. Maybe in today's NCAA enforcement environment that is true, but I think it will be more severe. Paying players is a cardinal sin.

You must have a higher jump than Ayton to be able to get to Arizona is getting the death penalty for "paying players" from some transcript of bloated conversations of fraud conspirators and these things actually being facts that the NCAA must act on...maybe you should try out as a walk on.

[enfuego]

I don't think anybody's understood the meaning of "death penalty" since what happened to SMU in the '80s.

Death penalty = the program is done. Not what happened to Penn State, and certainly not what's going to happen to most programs in this situation.

Maybe the definition has changed, but it is pretty commonly considered what I posted above.

"The NCAA has not used the "death penalty" — removal of a repeat-violator program's right to compete for at least a year— to punish a Division I athletics program since February 1987 against Southern Methodist football.

Could Louisville men's basketball be facing the death penalty?" http://www.azcentral.com/story/sports/c ... 705030001/" target="_blank

I can find you other current links where the interpreted definition is the same.

My post was in response to the poster who thinks that Arizona is going to only get a slap on the wrist. Maybe in today's NCAA enforcement environment that is true, but I think it will be more severe. Paying players is a cardinal sin.

You must have a higher jump than Ayton to be able to get to Arizona is getting the death penalty for "paying players" from some transcript of bloated conversations of fraud conspirators and these things actually being facts that the NCAA must act on...maybe you should try out as a walk on.

My bad. Why did Richardson get canned? Will Quinerly be playing at UA next year?

[CatFanOneMil]

I don't think anybody's understood the meaning of "death penalty" since what happened to SMU in the '80s.

Death penalty = the program is done. Not what happened to Penn State, and certainly not what's going to happen to most programs in this situation.

Maybe the definition has changed, but it is pretty commonly considered what I posted above.

"The NCAA has not used the "death penalty" — removal of a repeat-violator program's right to compete for at least a year— to punish a Division I athletics program since February 1987 against Southern Methodist football.

Could Louisville men's basketball be facing the death penalty?" http://www.azcentral.com/story/sports/c ... 705030001/" target="_blank

I can find you other current links where the interpreted definition is the same.

My post was in response to the poster who thinks that Arizona is going to only get a slap on the wrist. Maybe in today's NCAA enforcement environment that is true, but I think it will be more severe. Paying players is a cardinal sin.

You must have a higher jump than Ayton to be able to get to Arizona is getting the death penalty for "paying players" from some transcript of bloated conversations of fraud conspirators and these things actually being facts that the NCAA must act on...maybe you should try out as a walk on.

My bad. Why did Richardson get canned? Will Quinerly be playing at UA next year?

I'm not going to argue with a fence post here, Richardsons termination is for violation of his employment agreement and the rules he submitted to when he was hired by the State of Arizona, as far as Quinerly playing we honestly have no idea until there is actual evidence and financial records that he or his family received cash benefits, at this point all we have is an allegation that this happened there is no hard core proof yet, it was talked about in a recorded conversation, but that does not make it a fact yet, it is a fact it was talked about, beyond that we do not have any record that the FBI has proof beyond the tape recording...this is simple evidential discovery.

It is just as probable that his handler got money and he himself never knew about it, that is as true as the worst case scenario right now, if he is found not guilty of any of this and the UA rescinds his offer the University could be liable for a lawsuit...see how that works yet?

[enfuego]

I don't think anybody's understood the meaning of "death penalty" since what happened to SMU in the '80s.

Death penalty = the program is done. Not what happened to Penn State, and certainly not what's going to happen to most programs in this situation.

Maybe the definition has changed, but it is pretty commonly considered what I posted above.

"The NCAA has not used the "death penalty" — removal of a repeat-violator program's right to compete for at least a year— to punish a Division I athletics program since February 1987 against Southern Methodist football.

Could Louisville men's basketball be facing the death penalty?" http://www.azcentral.com/story/sports/c ... 705030001/" target="_blank

I can find you other current links where the interpreted definition is the same.

My post was in response to the poster who thinks that Arizona is going to only get a slap on the wrist. Maybe in today's NCAA enforcement environment that is true, but I think it will be more severe. Paying players is a cardinal sin.

You must have a higher jump than Ayton to be able to get to Arizona is getting the death penalty for "paying players" from some transcript of bloated conversations of fraud conspirators and these things actually being facts that the NCAA must act on...maybe you should try out as a walk on.

My bad. Why did Richardson get canned? Will Quinerly be playing at UA next year?

I'm not going to argue with a fence post here, Richardsons termination is for violation of his employment agreement and the rules he submitted to when he was hired by the State of Arizona, as far as Quinerly playing we honestly have no idea until there is actual evidence and financial records that he or his family received cash benefits, at this point all we have is an allegation that this happened there is no hard core proof yet, it was talked about in a recorded conversation, but that does not make it a fact yet, it is a fact it was talked about, beyond that we do not have any record that the FBI has proof beyond the tape recording...this is simple evidential discovery.

It is just as probable that his handler got money and he himself never knew about it, that is as true as the worst case scenario right now, if he is found not guilty of any of this and the UA rescinds his offer the University could be liable for a lawsuit...see how that works yet?

Oh, I see how it works. I also see that the FBI typically doesn't arrest people without proof. They've only released bits of information to the media and not their entire case - publicly. So maybe cash never passed hands so their arrest for accusations which require it have been passed are for naught. See how that works yet?

Don't get me wrong now, I suspect most every program cheats. Arizona got caught. So, either punish Arizona or disband the NCAA and allow every program publicly pay recruits to play.