Arizona at Oregon discussion thread

[scumdevils86]

national stats showing how amazing our 2017 defense is. proof that we are destined for glory on the defensive end.

scoring defense-99th
total defense-116th
3rd down defense-110th
4th down defense-104th
opponent pass plays of 10+ yards-128th
opponent rush plays of 10+ yards-71st

that is a damn fine defense.

[RazorsEdgeAZ]

Case in point. So, do you honestly think this Arizona defense is good? An average USC offense threw down 49 duckets on these guys. Oregon State schooled them in the second half. Want to pretend like everyone did with Casteel’s defense or are we gonna live in reality here?

USC is not an average offense. They are very good with tons of NFLers on it.

Yeah no chance that the defense let up off the gas a bit when they were blowing out Oregon and gave up less than 100 yards in the first half?

They are not great but they are decent and improving dramatically. Anyone who watches it and not just looks at stats can see that.

Defense is opportunistic. Not necessarily good. This defense is what RR and Casteel in the BE is starting to look like stats wise. Bend but don't always break. Give up occasional big plays. Defense has to be in so many plays in part because of great UA Offense and Tate's big plays. Defense averages having to defend against 78 plays a game. 78.

Turnovers very good
Sacks good
TFL's really good
RZ defense very good
Defense scoring TD"s good
Scoring defense needs to improve and should next year.

Opportunistic.

[scumdevils86]

Case in point. So, do you honestly think this Arizona defense is good? An average USC offense threw down 49 duckets on these guys. Oregon State schooled them in the second half. Want to pretend like everyone did with Casteel’s defense or are we gonna live in reality here?

USC is not an average offense. They are very good with tons of NFLers on it.

Yeah no chance that the defense let up off the gas a bit when they were blowing out Oregon and gave up less than 100 yards in the first half?

They are not great but they are decent and improving dramatically. Anyone who watches it and not just looks at stats can see that.

Defense is opportunistic. Not necessarily good. This defense is what RR and Casteel in the BE is starting to look like stats wise. Bend but don't always break. Give up occasional big plays. Defense has to be in so many plays in part because of great UA Offense and Tate's big plays. Defense averages having to defend against 78 plays a game. 78.

Turnovers very good
Sacks good
TFL's really good
RZ defense very good
Defense scoring TD"s good

Opportunistic.
Scoring defense needs to improve and should next year.

yep

[chiefzona]

Case in point. So, do you honestly think this Arizona defense is good? An average USC offense threw down 49 duckets on these guys. Oregon State schooled them in the second half. Want to pretend like everyone did with Casteel’s defense or are we gonna live in reality here?

USC is not an average offense. They are very good with tons of NFLers on it.

Yeah no chance that the defense let up off the gas a bit when they were blowing out Oregon and gave up less than 100 yards in the first half?

They are not great but they are decent and improving dramatically. Anyone who watches it and not just looks at stats can see that.

USC offense:

47th in points per game
42nd in pass yards per game
57th in rush yards per game

Darnold has struggled. O-line is weak. Tee and Tyson are clashing on the game calling. For USC standards....an average offense.

Arizona defense.....d-line is still getting blown off the line. LBs are not getting good coverage or gap responsibility. Safeties look lost on covers. CBs are not doing half bad. Still.....not a good defense.

[PHXCATS]

48th in Sacks
19th in Take Aways

All but 3 games U of A kept their opponents to right about their season average in per play averages in yards or below their average for the year. USC was a dumpster fire, Oregon State didn't care in the 2nd half, and CU everyone was winded from so many plays and the altitude. Those three are the ones where the average per play in the game for U of A's defense gave up a material amount more per play than the opponents average. Houston Utah and UCLA were less than average.

Not saying that U of A has a great defense, but it is not awful or bad. Average or so and improving.

[azcat49]

Who cares? You are right, our defense blows. We still would be 9-1 with Tate at the helm next year we go no worse than 8-4 and if we have team health, probably better than that

[PHXCATS]

Who cares? You are right, our defense blows. We still would be 9-1 with Tate at the helm next year we go no worse than 8-4 and if we have team health, probably better than that

Very good point. The offense is what let the team down vsUtah and Houston not the defense

[tgrumpy2]

The totally different takes on defense are interesting to me. Its like some people and I won't mention who they are. We all know. They hate the idea of the glass being half full and maybe getting fuller so they want to empty it at any costs. There are others that know the glass isn't very full but they see it filling up. I tend to side with the second group on that.

[Captain Obvious]

In a season where I felt we may be lucky to win 5 games I'm not going to complain about our defense. It' s been a really special year with the unexpected emergence of Tate. Let's just enjoy the season until it ends and be thankful things turned out so much better than expected this year.

[EVCat]

cherry picking bad stats. OK.

Wins and losses. Yards per play. Those are the two stats that matter.

One is the point. The other shows just how much your team gives up on each snap in comparison to the rest of the nation. You get from 55 to 101 of them. If you are around that 100 figure, you are going to give up more aggregate...yards, plays over something, probably plays in between 1 and 100 yards...a lot of stats.

But if one defense faces 60 snaps, and another faces 90, it is pretty fucking stupid to compare the total yards or even points surrendered by each one. It's such simple math...give someone 10 shots at the FT line and someone else 20, then laugh at the guy who hit 8 of 10 because the other guy made 12 of 20...you fuckin suck, 10 shot guy...you only made 8....

It is that idiotic to compare numbers that have to do with totals when the opportunities differ. Especially when there is, amazingly, a method to actually compare teams facing disparate numbers of plays. Math...like science, it's amazing.

Yards per play. Points per play. Simple shit. No, the Cats defense is'g great, or even good. They are OK. Average. The numbers that matter show that.

But you can punish them for facing 20% more plays than other teams for giving up more than 0 yards on those plays. Because that totally makes sense.

This isn't even like trash talk, or opinion arguing. It is math. No one in their right mind would compare the number of runs a pitcher who throws 7 innings gives up to one who throws 4 or 5. How do they compare them in that sport? However do they do that? Oh, yeah...runs given up over an equal/average (9 innings). It's like noting someone has 100 more hits than another...in 400 more at bats. It's almost like there is a number they could use to make the players hit totals...equal. Like average.

One team faces 70 snaps. The average faces 75. Your team faces 90. It's almost like there should be a number that compares teams who face different amounts of plays (and I am not even asking people to figure in a defense being more tired after 100 plays than after 70...I am giving this argument that for free. I am generous).

That figure...whatever is it? Oh, yeah...yards per play faced. Points per play faced. WHere are the Cats there?

And why would this one poster continue to use total number stats knowing the Arizona D faces far more plays than average?

Because he would rather win the argument than like his team. But his argument requires suspension of all common sense

[ASUHATER!]

I like how the number of points you give up on defense is apparently now a meaningless stat

[Disambiguator]

I like how the number of points you give up on defense is apparently now a meaningless stat

Dense.

Never give in, nattering nabob of negativism. Blissfully unencumbered by the thought process.

[ASUHATER!]

I like how the number of points you give up on defense is apparently now a meaningless stat

Dense.

Never give in, nattering nabob of negativism. Blissfully unencumbered by the thought process.

Lol...if you say so. It is the height of ignorance and blissfully ignoring reality though to try to make the argument that the amount of points you give up doesn't matter. But keep beating that senseless, unfounded in reality drum if you want. I'll be here in the land of sanity.

[UALoco]

Must suck to be so miserably negative. This season is better than anyone could have imagined, even for homers like me. Only one stat matters and that will always be Wins and Losses. The defense is good....enough for 7+ wins.

[ASUHATER!]

Must suck to be so miserably negative. This season is better than anyone could have imagined, even for homers like me. Only one stat matters and that will always be Wins and Losses. The defense is good....enough for 7+ wins.

I'm not being negative at all. Not even remotely. Just am stating a fact that can't be debated...giving up lots of points is bad. Our offense is fantastic this year obviously. Probably the best in school history. But the defense is still bad. And that's not being negative. Unless you think statements like "the earth orbits the sun" and "bacteria cause infections" are negative?

[dc4azcats]

I like how the number of points you give up on defense is apparently now a meaningless stat

Dense.

Never give in, nattering nabob of negativism. Blissfully unencumbered by the thought process.

Lol...if you say so. It is the height of ignorance and blissfully ignoring reality though to try to make the argument that the amount of points you give up doesn't matter. But keep beating that senseless, unfounded in reality drum if you want. I'll be here in the land of sanity.

Try and stay with me on this? This is reality.
Arizona gives up 31.9 points a game on average.
Arizona scores 44.4 points a game on average.

You get your panties in a bunch because our D gives up 32 points a game? Oregon gives up 30.1 points per game. Difference between being 5-5 and say 7-3 is Oregon only scores 32.3 point per game.

[scumdevils86]

Without Tate we'd be scoring 25 a game. Doesn't take much to change the outcome. I am quite thankful he got the chance to lead us to bigger and better things this year. But only a fool won't acknowledge our defense is not good. As someone else said they are opportunistic for sure and that helps but they definitely aren't good.

[ASUHATER!]

I like how the number of points you give up on defense is apparently now a meaningless stat

Dense.

Never give in, nattering nabob of negativism. Blissfully unencumbered by the thought process.

Lol...if you say so. It is the height of ignorance and blissfully ignoring reality though to try to make the argument that the amount of points you give up doesn't matter. But keep beating that senseless, unfounded in reality drum if you want. I'll be here in the land of sanity.

Try and stay with me on this? This is reality.
Arizona gives up 31.9 points a game on average.
Arizona scores 44.4 points a game on average.

You get your panties in a bunch because our D gives up 32 points a game? Oregon gives up 30.1 points per game. Difference between being 5-5 and say 7-3 is Oregon only scores 32.3 point per game.

37+ PPG against conference opponents. Stay with me here, and don't get your panties in a bunch when you're demolished in an argument, but...that's not good.

[dc4azcats]

I like how the number of points you give up on defense is apparently now a meaningless stat

Dense.

Never give in, nattering nabob of negativism. Blissfully unencumbered by the thought process.

Lol...if you say so. It is the height of ignorance and blissfully ignoring reality though to try to make the argument that the amount of points you give up doesn't matter. But keep beating that senseless, unfounded in reality drum if you want. I'll be here in the land of sanity.

Try and stay with me on this? This is reality.
Arizona gives up 31.9 points a game on average.
Arizona scores 44.4 points a game on average.

You get your panties in a bunch because our D gives up 32 points a game? Oregon gives up 30.1 points per game. Difference between being 5-5 and say 7-3 is Oregon only scores 32.3 point per game.

37+ PPG against conference opponents. Stay with me here, and don't get your panties in a bunch when you're demolished in an argument, but...that's not good.

And we've lost one freaking road game at SC with Tate as our QB. So again, how many times has that not worked out? Are you guys really this dense? You win by scoring the most points. Let me know when they start giving style points and I'll start to care about how many points our D gives up. Crying about our D when our O scores 44 points a game is as weak as weak can be.

[ASUHATER!]

The lengths people go to to try to make these RR defenses into desert swarm is so silly it can't be serious. Right? Is it so bad to want us to have a good defense AND a good offense? Somehow that's an evil thing to wish for?

Asking for a defense that doesn't give up mountains of points isn't for style..it's to have a good team. The laborious work you do to avoid reality is frankly impressive. Good for you.

[dc4azcats]

The lengths people go to to try to make these RR defenses into desert swarm is so silly it can't be serious. Right? Is it so bad to want us to have a good defense AND a good offense? Somehow that's an evil thing to wish for?

Asking for a defense that doesn't give up mountains of points isn't for style..it's to have a good team. The laborious work you do to avoid reality is frankly impressive. Good for you.

Point out where I said anything about our D other than how many points they give up on average? Reality is we're 7-3 and 5-2 in the conference. What else matters? Oh wait, how many points our D gives up? And we're still 7-3 and 5-2 in the conference.

[ASUHATER!]

The lengths people go to to try to make these RR defenses into desert swarm is so silly it can't be serious. Right? Is it so bad to want us to have a good defense AND a good offense? Somehow that's an evil thing to wish for?

Asking for a defense that doesn't give up mountains of points isn't for style..it's to have a good team. The laborious work you do to avoid reality is frankly impressive. Good for you.

Point out where I said anything about our D other than how many points they give up on average? Reality is we're 7-3 and 5-2 in the conference. What else matters? Oh wait, how many points our D gives up? And we're still 7-3 and 5-2 in the conference.

And if our defense was better, we could have a better record. I just don't get why it's so awful to wish for us to have a good defense. Do you want us to have a bad defense? What is the payoff in defending awful RR defenses? Explain the motivation to me for this.

[dc4azcats]

The lengths people go to to try to make these RR defenses into desert swarm is so silly it can't be serious. Right? Is it so bad to want us to have a good defense AND a good offense? Somehow that's an evil thing to wish for?

Asking for a defense that doesn't give up mountains of points isn't for style..it's to have a good team. The laborious work you do to avoid reality is frankly impressive. Good for you.

Point out where I said anything about our D other than how many points they give up on average? Reality is we're 7-3 and 5-2 in the conference. What else matters? Oh wait, how many points our D gives up? And we're still 7-3 and 5-2 in the conference.

And if our defense was better, we could have a better record. I just don't get why it's so awful to wish for us to have a good defense. Do you want us to have a bad defense? What is the payoff in defending awful RR defenses? Explain the motivation to me for this.

Our D had nothing to do with us losing to Houston or Utah. So if you want to play that game, we should be 9-1 and 6-1. But keep trying as I think you're really making some headway.

[PHXCATS]

If a team gives up 400 yards a game and plays 80 plays on defense. And another gives up 300 on 45 plays a game I would say the first one is better. But that's just math.

[ASUHATER!]

The lengths people go to to try to make these RR defenses into desert swarm is so silly it can't be serious. Right? Is it so bad to want us to have a good defense AND a good offense? Somehow that's an evil thing to wish for?

Asking for a defense that doesn't give up mountains of points isn't for style..it's to have a good team. The laborious work you do to avoid reality is frankly impressive. Good for you.

Point out where I said anything about our D other than how many points they give up on average? Reality is we're 7-3 and 5-2 in the conference. What else matters? Oh wait, how many points our D gives up? And we're still 7-3 and 5-2 in the conference.

And if our defense was better, we could have a better record. I just don't get why it's so awful to wish for us to have a good defense. Do you want us to have a bad defense? What is the payoff in defending awful RR defenses? Explain the motivation to me for this.

Our D had nothing to do with us losing to Houston or Utah. So if you want to play that game, we should be 9-1 and 6-1. But keep trying as I think you're really making some headway.

So you don't have an answer. Ok. Noted

[ASUHATER!]

If a team gives up 400 yards a game and plays 80 plays on defense. And another gives up 300 on 45 plays a game I would say the first one is better. But that's just math.

The only stat that matters is the points you give up. It's literally the entire point of playing the game.

[wyo-cat]

If a team gives up 400 yards a game and plays 80 plays on defense. And another gives up 300 on 45 plays a game I would say the first one is better. But that's just math.

The only stat that matters is the points you give up. It's literally the entire point of playing the game.

Not according to you after every game this season. It’s yards given up.

[PHXCATS]

U of A on defense is giving up 10 points per game in the first half of pac12 play. Say that is talent or depth or recruiting or whatever you want to try to poop on RR and this team but a HUGE factor of the second half defense giving up more points is the speed and ease the offense scores. Score on 15 play drives in the second instead of 3 play drives the defense stats wise is much better. Gotta watch the game and interpret what you see and not just look at stats. Also they let off the gas big time vs OSU in the second. Dominated defensively in the first.

[chiefzona]

Freshmen hit a wall. It was expected.

[UALoco]

We can all agree that the defense is not where it needs to be. I also think we can agree it is on an upward trajectory and improving. And finally, we can all agree that 7-3, 5-2 is acceptable performance. Now, can we all just get along?

*edited for correction*

[azcat49]

7-3 5-2 Loco and that is all that matters

[azgreg]

[Merkin]

Not that they need my approval, but I like that combination.

[UALoco]

7-3 5-2 Loco and that is all that matters

fixed it..thanks.

[btfd16]

Love Oregon's, like our color scheme, but man do I still hate our Madden-Create-A-Team jerseys.

[tgrumpy2]

The lengths people go to to try to make these RR defenses into desert swarm is so silly it can't be serious. Right? Is it so bad to want us to have a good defense AND a good offense? Somehow that's an evil thing to wish for?

Asking for a defense that doesn't give up mountains of points isn't for style..it's to have a good team. The laborious work you do to avoid reality is frankly impressive. Good for you.

This is where you go off the edge Hater and its why I think you're so darn entertaining. I do not recall any of the posters here saying this defense is somewhere akin to Desert Swarm. If you've seen it, please repost it for me. All I've heard any of the more positive people say is the defense has improved and it has and its been good enough to win 7 plus games. You're so intent on trying to empty the glass and rain on the parade that you'll just blurt out anything. Like I said, its why I think you're so darn entertaining. LOL

[dc4azcats]

If a team gives up 400 yards a game and plays 80 plays on defense. And another gives up 300 on 45 plays a game I would say the first one is better. But that's just math.

The only stat that matters is the points you give up. It's literally the entire point of playing the game.

What?!?! The ONLY stat that matters is did you score more points than the other team. Period. Giving up 35 but you scored 36 is ALL that matters. As stated previously, when they start giving out style points is when I start giving a crap about how much we win by.

[PHXCATS]

The lengths people go to to try to make these RR defenses into desert swarm is so silly it can't be serious. Right? Is it so bad to want us to have a good defense AND a good offense? Somehow that's an evil thing to wish for?

Asking for a defense that doesn't give up mountains of points isn't for style..it's to have a good team. The laborious work you do to avoid reality is frankly impressive. Good for you.

This is where you go off the edge Hater and its why I think you're so darn entertaining. I do not recall any of the posters here saying this defense is somewhere akin to Desert Swarm. If you've seen it, please repost it for me. All I've heard any of the more positive people say is the defense has improved and it has and its been good enough to win 7 plus games. You're so intent on trying to empty the glass and rain on the parade that you'll just blurt out anything. Like I said, its why I think you're so darn entertaining. LOL

Yep, I have been the biggest defender against people saying the D sucks but never have I said it is great or even good and never said anything close to Desert Swarm. I have said it is not awful, not bad, average, acceptable, okay, adequate, etc. as well as the most important term, improving.

some posters just make stuff but and never respond to being called out for making stuff up. Loco is still waiting for some proof to be shown of things he has been accused of. He will be waiting a long time though.

[dc4azcats]

The lengths people go to to try to make these RR defenses into desert swarm is so silly it can't be serious. Right? Is it so bad to want us to have a good defense AND a good offense? Somehow that's an evil thing to wish for?

Asking for a defense that doesn't give up mountains of points isn't for style..it's to have a good team. The laborious work you do to avoid reality is frankly impressive. Good for you.

This is where you go off the edge Hater and its why I think you're so darn entertaining. I do not recall any of the posters here saying this defense is somewhere akin to Desert Swarm. If you've seen it, please repost it for me. All I've heard any of the more positive people say is the defense has improved and it has and its been good enough to win 7 plus games. You're so intent on trying to empty the glass and rain on the parade that you'll just blurt out anything. Like I said, its why I think you're so darn entertaining. LOL

Yep, I have been the biggest defender against people saying the D sucks but never have I said it is great or even good and never said anything close to Desert Swarm. I have said it is not awful, not bad, average, acceptable, okay, adequate, etc. as well as the most important term, improving.

some posters just make stuff but and never respond to being called out for making stuff up. Loco is still waiting for some proof to be shown of things he has been accused of. He will be waiting a long time though.

Agree. All I ask from our D is to get a couple of stops early and give the O a chance to put some points on the board. We get ahead by 10-17 points and I'm very confident that we will win. The SC game was the exception, as our D gave our offense chances early, but we didn't capitalize on them. When we did finally capitalize, we tied the game up.

Wazzu came back and we answered back in 2 plays, and that was the ball game. When our offense knows it can score, it puts a lot of pressure on the other team as they have to match us score for score.

Anybody else notice how we always used to defer when we won the coin toss? The last two times we've won the toss, we've taken the ball and not deferred. It was true vs Wazzu and vs ntOSU. RR wants to put points on the board right away and put pressure on the other team to keep up.

[azcat49]

If a team gives up 400 yards a game and plays 80 plays on defense. And another gives up 300 on 45 plays a game I would say the first one is better. But that's just math.

The only stat that matters is the points you give up. It's literally the entire point of playing the game.

What?!?! The ONLY stat that matters is did you score more points than the other team. Period. Giving up 35 but you scored 36 is ALL that matters. As stated previously, when they start giving out style points is when I start giving a crap about how much we win by.

And that would be game, set and match

[ASUHATER!]

If a team gives up 400 yards a game and plays 80 plays on defense. And another gives up 300 on 45 plays a game I would say the first one is better. But that's just math.

The only stat that matters is the points you give up. It's literally the entire point of playing the game.

What?!?! The ONLY stat that matters is did you score more points than the other team. Period. Giving up 35 but you scored 36 is ALL that matters. As stated previously, when they start giving out style points is when I start giving a crap about how much we win by.

And that would be game, set and match

Uh no it wouldn't. That's the same thing that I said. The goal is to score more than the other team. And the 2 factors in that that are equal in importance are scoring and stopping the other team from scoring.

I feel like I'm witnessing a breakout of an insane asylum with these posts doing anything they can to try to say it doesn't matter how many points you give up. People need to relearn the game of football or something. Any Arizona fan from prior to about 2010 would punch you in the face for these idiotic arguments against having a good defense.

[azgreg]

Line is now Oregon -2.5.

[scumdevils86]

Line is now Oregon -2.5.

wasn't it a pickem earlier?

[PHXCATS]

The number of games that the defense was the primary reason for a loss-1 (Can even say 0 because special teams really gave USC the edge)

The number of games that the offense was the primary reason for a loss-2

That said, both the offense and defense will need to play well tomorrow for a win

[azgreg]

Line is now Oregon -2.5.

wasn't it a pickem earlier?

The line came out late due to the Oregon QB decision. Once it came out (a pick'em I believe) it moved towards Oregon pretty steadily.

[OSUCat]

Line is now Oregon -2.5.

wasn't it a pickem earlier?

The line came out late due to the Oregon QB decision. Once it came out (a pick'em I believe) it moved towards Oregon pretty steadily.

I really wouldn’t be surprised if Sharps move it toward Arizona.

[qwertyus]

Decent. I like our matte blue with red "A" helmets more than the chrome ones, but these are OK. It's the white helmets that sorta suck...

[qwertyus]

Line is now Oregon -2.5.

Keep picking Oregon, I want as many idiots as possible to lose money picking against my 'Cats!

[PieceOfMeat]

This, to me, is a very similar game to the USC game.

Much like the USC game, we got out manned at most positions and a bit out coached as well.

These are the types of games that show our ceiling. We're too lacking in talent to keep up with schools who've been recruiting 4's and 5's star rated players year in and year out.

Is what it is, and we are what we are.

[ChooChooCat]

This, to me, is a very similar game to the USC game.

Much like the USC game, we got out manned at most positions and a bit out coached as well.

These are the types of games that show our ceiling. We're too lacking in talent to keep up with schools who've been recruiting 4's and 5's star rate players year in and year out.

Is what it is, and we are what we are.

I'm so glad we landed a sub 6 foot receiver today when we really need big bodies to defend teams like this. Yay.