ASU v. UA discussion thread

azcat49 · Post by **azcat49** » Sat Dec 23, 2017 8:48 pm

75, winner would win the conference. We had lost to them easier in the year in Tempe. They had a huge center they called the rock but Bob Elliott went for 38 and 25 and we won and went on to the elite 8 where we lost to UCLA on their home floor

KaibabKat · Post by **KaibabKat** » Sat Dec 23, 2017 9:41 pm

azcat49 wrote:75, winner would win the conference. We had lost to them easier in the year in Tempe. They had a huge center they called the rock but Bob Elliott went for 38 and 25 and we won and went on to the elite 8 where we lost to UCLA on their home floor

You may be confusing years. Bob Elliott did go for 38 points and 25 rebounds against Ron "the Rock" Kennedy on 2/2/74 in McKale Center and the Cats won 98-90. In the last game of that season UA lost in Tempe 95-108. We finished that season 19-7 and did not play in the post season. New Mexico won the WAC championship that year. Two years later we made our first elite eight defeating Las Vegas in overtime and eventually losing to UCLA on their home court.

ALASKACAT · Post by **ALASKACAT** » Sun Dec 24, 2017 2:57 am

KKat is right according to Greg Hansen's Sunday Notebook: http://tucson.com/sports/arizonawildcat ... a176a.html" target="_blank

Every seat for Saturday’s Arizona-ASU basketball game has been sold. Even the Zona Zoo seats vacated by winter-break students have been sold for $70 to $118.

"I hope every fan from Arizona and Arizona State is trying like heck to get in that building,’’ Sun Devils coach Bobby Hurley said Friday. “It's going to be a fun, competitive game to be a part of."

One seat on the floor press table will be occupied by Pac-12 Networks analyst Matt Muehlebach, who was 8-0 against the Sun Devils in his Arizona career, 1988-91. Average score: 87-62.

But things have changed. Until now, the most-anticipated UA-ASU game in history was a Feb. 1, 1975 showdown at McKale Center. The 12th-ranked 16-2 Sun Devils beat the 15th-ranked 15-3 Wildcats 83-81 before a then-record crowd 14,521.

That game sold out eight days before tipoff. This game beat that by a few days.

dovecanyoncat · Post by **dovecanyoncat** » Sun Dec 24, 2017 7:46 am

Bordercat wrote:PJC just needs to slow Holder down, make it hard for him. If he can hold him to 10-12 points that would be big.

Nearly 42% of ChuckU's shots are 3s. Holder shoots them best but of the 3 Chuckers he shoots them the least. Evans and Justice shoot them over 60% of the time. If we can run them off the line and force them into mid-range 2s... they lose ... because we're gonna score our average (or better) at home.

Depth will matter. Even if their guards try to get fouls on our bigs we can sacrifice Pinder and Lee in the paint. As long as PJC, Rawle, and Trier don't foul the three point shooter we cut into their base of production.

Alieberman · Post by **Alieberman** » Sun Dec 24, 2017 7:47 am

It does suck that this game is played while students are gone. Who schedules rivalry games over break?

Thanks Larry

CalStateTempe · Post by **CalStateTempe** » Sun Dec 24, 2017 9:27 am

I'm going to be really mad if cal water polo reruns are being aired over this game on the inlaws cable.

PHXCATS · Post by **PHXCATS** » Sun Dec 24, 2017 12:10 pm

CalStateTempe wrote:I'm going to be really mad if cal water polo reruns are being aired over this game on the inlaws cable.

General or Arizona will have it.

Spaceman Spiff · Post by **Spaceman Spiff** » Mon Dec 25, 2017 9:07 am

dovecanyoncat wrote:
Bordercat wrote:PJC just needs to slow Holder down, make it hard for him. If he can hold him to 10-12 points that would be big.
Nearly 42% of ChuckU's shots are 3s. Holder shoots them best but of the 3 Chuckers he shoots them the least. Evans and Justice shoot them over 60% of the time. If we can run them off the line and force them into mid-range 2s... they lose ... because we're gonna score our average (or better) at home.

Depth will matter. Even if their guards try to get fouls on our bigs we can sacrifice Pinder and Lee in the paint. As long as PJC, Rawle, and Trier don't foul the three point shooter we cut into their base of production.

Showing that we can defend the 3 better than earlier in the year is the huge thing. Their small lineup is predicated on spreading the floor and either driving to the rim or kicking for the 3.

We'll be fine on offense unless we commit a lot of unforced turnovers. ASU is like most teams, they don't have 3 defenders to match Zo, Ayton and Rawle.

Underrated aspect is getting something from our bench guard/wings. I think you're right that depth matters, especially getting productive bench minutes against their guards.

Postmaster · Post by **Postmaster** » Mon Dec 25, 2017 11:08 am

enfuego wrote:
Bordercat wrote:pg 6'1- 180 vs 5'11- 170
sg 6'1- 172 vs 6'5- 205
sg/sf- 6'5- 190 vs 6'5- 220
pf- 6'7- 210 vs 7'1- 250
pf/c- 6'8- 220 vs 7'0- 245

I really don't see how they can overcome the disparity outside of Holder.
In what universe is PJC 5'11? He MAY be 5'5" in shoes.

I've walked past him a few times this year.
He is taller than I am, and I am 5'9".

UAEebs86 · Post by **UAEebs86** » Mon Dec 25, 2017 11:11 am

My son took a pic with him a few years ago. He said PJC was about 5'10".

Spaceman Spiff · Post by **Spaceman Spiff** » Mon Dec 25, 2017 11:15 am

People tend to be surprised by the real world size of smaller basketball players. I remember my uncle telling me when he met Steve Kerr, he was sort of shocked because he looked small in the NBA, but that 6'3 is a pretty big guy among normal humans.

SunnyAZ · Post by **SunnyAZ** » Mon Dec 25, 2017 2:17 pm

Postmaster wrote:
enfuego wrote:
Bordercat wrote:pg 6'1- 180 vs 5'11- 170
sg 6'1- 172 vs 6'5- 205
sg/sf- 6'5- 190 vs 6'5- 220
pf- 6'7- 210 vs 7'1- 250
pf/c- 6'8- 220 vs 7'0- 245

I really don't see how they can overcome the disparity outside of Holder.
In what universe is PJC 5'11? He MAY be 5'5" in shoes.

I've walked past him a few times this year.
He is taller than I am, and I am 5'9".

I was walking right next to him trying to get out of a football game. I'll give him 5'9'' (w/o shoes), cause he seemed as tall as me and I'm 5'8''. He did have long arms tho.

I used to walk by Dusan about twice a week going to class, and he was going down the stairs while I was walking up and he was such a giant.

YoDeFoe · Post by **YoDeFoe** » Mon Dec 25, 2017 6:33 pm

I'm encouraged by Miller's recent post game comment that he believes the defense has turned the corner. We're much better, but I still wonder if we're disciplined enough to keep up with ASU's frenetic penetration and passing attack. They'd be a great practice opponent to drill in positioning, rotations, and focus. Thankfully we have the UConn film that should prove illustrative as they run a similar sized line-up (though they lack the pace and abandon of ASU).

Good to have time for Rawle to continue to work back in (though he hardly looks like he needs it). Good to have time to let Zo's knee recover from the bruise. Good to have time to drill in the above.

Hopefully enough time for Miller et al to game plan for a game where PJC commits too many TOs and doesn't produce a whole lot offensively. They have the UConn film.

DiehardDave37 · Post by **DiehardDave37** » Mon Dec 25, 2017 6:52 pm

The 3 guards were there last year. I get that they are a year better. White and Lake are new. Are they the biggest reason for the quantum jump?

sirhamsalot · Post by **sirhamsalot** » Tue Dec 26, 2017 9:21 am

I wouldn't mind watching this happen again this year.

https://youtu.be/s3N-1kxOAqM" target="_blank

YoDeFoe · Post by **YoDeFoe** » Tue Dec 26, 2017 10:37 am

DiehardDave37 wrote:The 3 guards were there last year. I get that they are a year better. White and Lake are new. Are they the biggest reason for the quantum jump?

Remy Martin is new this year as the third guard in that three guard line-up. White, Shibel, Lake, and the recent transfer Mitchell are all new.

The third guard allows them to play up-tempo and use the "score at the rim or shoot a three" offensive style. Hurley has taken the tempo up from 181st -> 79th -> 53rd in the country in his three years. They've gone from 95th -> 55th -> 4th in offensive efficiency.

Shannon Evans's year-over-year per 40 stat line change is illustrative of the change in the whole team's offensive approach. Reduced his 2PAs by 20% and increased his FTAs and 3PAs by 50% each.

YoDeFoe · Post by **YoDeFoe** » Tue Dec 26, 2017 10:52 am

The obvious concern is their dribble penetration and their three point shooting - our ability to defend the perimeter will be paramount to our winning the game. The further concern is their ability to draw fouls and get to the line. While the lack of production out of our bench players has been a concern, the ability for ASU to put Deandre Ayton into foul trouble will be my primary focus in this game.

While ASU as a team gets to the line well, post players Romello White and De'Quon Lake are drawing fouls at elite levels. White is top five in the nation.

DiehardDave37 · Post by **DiehardDave37** » Tue Dec 26, 2017 11:59 am

Thanks Yo, those 2 posts help me to understand this game better.

CalStateTempe · Post by **CalStateTempe** » Tue Dec 26, 2017 12:03 pm

Just spread rep if I could.

YoDeFoe · Post by **YoDeFoe** » Tue Dec 26, 2017 12:57 pm

You can watch the game film highlights from their win over Kansas to get a visual on these guys.

Some things I note about what Kansas does poorly here:

* Svi #10 is a terrible perimeter defender and Kansas prepared for that by having help defenders cheat anytime he was challenged on the perimeter. Watch Malik Newman #14 have to help and get exposed when he leaves his man open in the corner.

* LeGarald Vick #2 is a bad on ball defender. He's definitely lazy, going under this pick and just watching Tra Holder shoot the three, but may also be too slow to stay in front of the ASU guards as he lets Holder get in front of him on the drive on the next play of the highlights.

* Malik Newman is also a bad perimeter defender. I don't even want to pick one play, he's just consistently letting his guy get around him by several steps, he's closing out slowly and giving shooters way too much space on the perimeter, and he's bad at reading rotations. His body language is also butter soft.

* Mitch Lightfoot plays 15 min/g for them. Nearly 20 here.

* Kansas is bad at team defense. This is how they let ASU stop their final late push to try to close the gap late in the game. Wildly embarrassing. Wave to Malik Newman as he flies by the play on the late closeout.

The above links are just examples. Feel free to watch and key-in on who does what poorly on D when a bucket goes in. There's not a whole of of contested shots in there - dudes are just not playing defense.

To our delight, I hope, that goes both ways in the video. ASU is just generally not trying on defense in a lot of those shots. Going under screens and letting Graham take wide open shots. Collapsing into the paint around the one post player that means anything for Kansas and leaving dudes open for wide open threes. Standing up on the perimeter and letting bigger guards blow by them. ASU did not play good defense in this one. Had Kansas's Svi not gobbled up 28% usage rate while going 0-3 from 2 and 3-11 from 3, Kansas might have been in that one at the end.

ASU has the fourth ranked offense in the nation - they get to the foul line more often than any other team in the country and they hit a very high percentage of their three point attempts. But they're also the 122nd ranked defense in the country. Cal State Bakersfield plays better defense. Eight of our thirteen opponents we've played this year play better defense.

Stay in front of them, don't foul on drives, and don't over help. Sounds deceptively easy - I know. But this is a good one for us. PJC is quick enough to stay in front of these guys and they're not so big that they can overwhelm him. Good match-up for him. Also: home game, which means maybe he and even Barcello show up. Trier and Rawle are long enough and quick enough to stay in front for the most part. We'll have to hope our rotations are on point for inevitable breakdowns. We'll have to wonder if Ristic can play at all in this one.

Our size advantage should be huge. We should see lobs and dunks.

I'm looking forward to this one. They're not going to surprise us like they did Xavier. We're not soft, horrible on D, and thin benched like Kansas. We've got guards who compete on the perimeter and bigs that will score at ease over 6'7" and 6'8" post players.

I'm a forever optimist about our team. I could be horribly wrong. But I think we ring their bell in this one.

DiehardDave37 · Post by **DiehardDave37** » Tue Dec 26, 2017 2:37 pm

Thanks Mr. Forever Optimist, do you have hope that Akot will be the defender we expected? If opponents foul them that much, we'll need more help from the bench than we've been getting.

EVCat · Post by **EVCat** » Tue Dec 26, 2017 2:43 pm

I think people get caught up in tempo and fail to see the whole picture. Yeah, ASU shoots a lot, scores a lot, more possessions = more rebound potential. But the idea that their offense is superior to ours is not held up by the numbers. It seems KenPom has the offensive efficiency way more on the money.

We hear about what a great 3 point shooting they are...they shoot .399. We shoot .394. Do they shoot a ton more threes? Not really. More, yes. They have shot 296 in 12 games to our 241 in 13 games. So 22 to 18 per game. Not significantly different, and they make .5% more. But they look flashy doing it? Is that where the idea that they are a superior shooting team comes from? The numbers just don't bear it out.

We hear they are such a great offensive team. They are good. So are we. Because we have more post presence, and a couple of 7 footers who hit from outside the paint (a great skill that really renders the "how come we don't have more paint scoring" complaints pointless), we are shooting .520 on the season. The Dead-Eye, Shootin' from the Hip SuperShootinDevils with the clearly superior offense shoot....508. So, 1.2% worse in all shots from the field. They are .5% better from 3, 1.2% worse overall. And they are an offensive juggernaut. If that is the case, we must be offensive geniuses.

Is it their great care with the ball and their high ATO ratios that make them so sexy and clearly better offensively? No...16 assists and 12 turnovers per game. Both teams. Exactly.

They pull 38 boards per game playing at a higher pace. We pull 37. Rebound margin? We are 47th nationally, ASU is 124th. So that isn't why people assume their offense is superior to ours.

The eye test? That's so obviously biased by style of play as to be almost pointless. Yeah...teams that run and gun look like they have superior offenses. But when they hit less of their shots by percentage, hit a statistically insignificant tick of a percent better from 3, have a similar ATO ratio (or exact) and rebound against opponent's performance far worse than the comparison, where is this "better offense?"

Strength of schedule becomes the only potential variable here, and their Kansas and Xavier games are matched by Texas A&M, and the higher level across the board opponents that aggregate to match or exceed their schedule like Alabama, UNLV, Purdue (while a loss, a game the stats were compiled from), etc. RPI shows our schedule as the 23rd hardest, and ASUs as the 63rd. So...not the opponent. I mean, you could start to get granular, looking only at opponent defensive efficiency and then who did they play and expand out into infinity...but these benchmarks let us know there is little difference, and where there it, it favors the Arizona offense.

HiCat · Post by **HiCat** » Tue Dec 26, 2017 2:51 pm

YoDeFoe wrote:The obvious concern is their dribble penetration and their three point shooting - our ability to defend the perimeter will be paramount to our winning the game. The further concern is their ability to draw fouls and get to the line. While the lack of production out of our bench players has been a concern, the ability for ASU to put Deandre Ayton into foul trouble will be my primary focus in this game.

While ASU as a team gets to the line well, post players Romello White and De'Quon Lake are drawing fouls at elite levels. White is top five in the nation.

Agree with this 99.9%. Defend the 3 and stopping dribble penetration appear to be the keys to winning the game. Bench scoring would be great, but not nearly as important as the first issues.

Postmaster · Post by **Postmaster** » Tue Dec 26, 2017 3:21 pm

My slight trepadation comes from what seems to be their strengths: 3pt shooting and dribble penetration seem to be our weaknesses.

I still think we win by 14.

DiehardDave37 · Post by **DiehardDave37** » Tue Dec 26, 2017 5:42 pm

Thanks EVCat, I feel better now.

Bordercat · Post by **Bordercat** » Wed Dec 27, 2017 7:13 am

YoDeFoe wrote: But this is a good one for us. PJC is quick enough to stay in front of these guys and they're not so big that they can overwhelm him. Good match-up for him. Also: home game, which means maybe he and even Barcello show up. Trier and Rawle are long enough and quick enough to stay in front for the most part. We'll have to hope our rotations are on point for inevitable breakdowns. We'll have to wonder if Ristic can play at all in this one.

Our size advantage should be huge. We should see lobs and dunks.

I'm looking forward to this one. They're not going to surprise us like they did Xavier. We're not soft, horrible on D, and thin benched like Kansas. We've got guards who compete on the perimeter and bigs that will score at ease over 6'7" and 6'8" post players.

I'm a forever optimist about our team. I could be horribly wrong. But I think we ring their bell in this one.

agree 100% with the bottom line of this assessment.

MountainCat · Post by **MountainCat** » Wed Dec 27, 2017 8:51 am

.....yes, I believe they hit the perverbial brick wall...and Hurleys head explodes.

Spaceman Spiff · Post by **Spaceman Spiff** » Wed Dec 27, 2017 9:48 am

YoDeFoe wrote:The obvious concern is their dribble penetration and their three point shooting - our ability to defend the perimeter will be paramount to our winning the game. The further concern is their ability to draw fouls and get to the line. While the lack of production out of our bench players has been a concern, the ability for ASU to put Deandre Ayton into foul trouble will be my primary focus in this game.

While ASU as a team gets to the line well, post players Romello White and De'Quon Lake are drawing fouls at elite levels. White is top five in the nation.

Your last few posts in this thread are solid gold.

This post hits our issues with them on the head. They'll try to spread us out, make us defend the drive and test our ability to rotate. If we can respond positively there, we have big advantages elsewhere. They don't really do much more than outscore you, so Ayton, Zo and Rawle can give us enough firepower to to match that.

If they start dropping threes, that's the thing we can't match. Our ability to make them take tougher, contested threes (and hope those don't fall) defines the game.

ChooChooCat · Post by **ChooChooCat** » Wed Dec 27, 2017 10:33 am

YDF, great posts my man, thanks.

DiehardDave37 · Post by **DiehardDave37** » Wed Dec 27, 2017 12:19 pm

Arizona State Sun Devils
PLAYER STATISTICS
PLAYER POS G MPG FG% 3P% FT% RPG A ST BL TO PF PPG
Tra Holder G 12 35:10 .467 .458 .831 5.1 58 22 0 35 25 21.5
Shannon Evans II G 12 34:55 .399 .388 .857 3.5 56 17 1 15 22 17.8
Romello White F 11 27:11 .699 .000 .585 8.6 4 2 9 25 34 14.9
Kodi Justice G 12 32:50 .470 .395 .700 3.2 21 16 5 16 19 13.6
Remy Martin G 12 25:35 .536 .375 .821 3.0 36 18 1 22 26 9.9
De'Quon Lake F 12 20:10 .741 .000 .633 6.3 2 1 19 8 32 9.2
Mickey Mitchell F 4 20:45 .692 .000 .571 6.8 6 4 2 6 10 6.5
Vitaliy Shibel F 12 15:35 .394 .280 .750 2.5 11 1 6 14 40 3.2
Austin Witherill G 9 3:40 .500 .500 .500 0.6 0 0 0 0 0 0.8
Grant Fogerty G 8 1:08 .000 .000 .000 0.0 1 0 0 0 2 0.0
Jordan Salzman G 4 1:15 .000 .000 .000 0.0 0 0 0 0 0 0.0

DiehardDave37 · Post by **DiehardDave37** » Wed Dec 27, 2017 12:21 pm

From the stats, I see Holder and Evans are the only 2 good free throw shooters and Evans is the only one with a good assist to turnover ratio.

CatHoops · Post by **CatHoops** » Wed Dec 27, 2017 12:44 pm

Run them off the 3pt line and make them shoot mid range jumpers. I've watched a couple games their bigs can't create their own shots and the guards jack transition threes from deep. Everything comes off transition nobody really creates their own shot so if were efficient on offense and take good shots that will limit their chances to get out and run. Cats win by 10+

SunnyAZ · Post by **SunnyAZ** » Wed Dec 27, 2017 12:52 pm

* Kansas is bad at team defense.

they are ranked 9th per Kenpom, we are 51st.

YoDeFoe · Post by **YoDeFoe** » Wed Dec 27, 2017 2:00 pm

SunnyAZ wrote:
* Kansas is bad at team defense.
they are ranked 9th per Kenpom, we are 51st.

You can watch the video and let me know if they played good team defense against ASU. They're consistently late on rotations and bad at reading who should be rotating where... which gets you to the specific play I link where everyone collapsed into the paint and left three shooters open on the perimeter. Just can't happen late in the game while trying to make a run against a three point shooting team.

Also, I know their KenPom numbers and I'm just not buying it. They held South Dakota St to 64... while Wyoming held them to 65 three days later. They held Tennessee St to 56... while North Carolina A&T held them to 54. They held Texas Southern to 71... while the team averages 69. They held Nebraska to 72... while they're averaging 60 points in their losses. They let ASU put up 95 points on them... the same number allowed by Longwood, one of the ten worst teams in D1.

I'm big on metrics but I don't buy that KenPom rating. Massey has them at 29th. Sports Ref shows them with the 24th best DRtg. But just watching them... I'm not impressed. Though to reiterate (and caveat): I was talking specifically about that game.

And regarding our rating... We used to be horrible on defense. We're getting better. I don't know if we're there yet - this weekend should be a good test - but we're certainly not the same team that played "Ole" defense in November, especially with Rawle back now.

Spaceman Spiff · Post by **Spaceman Spiff** » Wed Dec 27, 2017 2:04 pm

We're in the low 50's and have been edging upwards. If we keep that trend up, we will wind up with our D performing at the level we need it to be for March success, even if the ranking doesn't necessarily reflect it.

YoDeFoe · Post by **YoDeFoe** » Wed Dec 27, 2017 2:08 pm

Here's some fun math since it's slow in the office this week:

In the 6 games to start the season we played opponents averaging #137 on KenPom and we allowed 1.05 points per possession.

In the 7 games since the Bahamas we played opponents averaging #115 on KenPom and we allowed 0.97 ppp.

We're getting better.

(edit: also thanks for the above kudos y'all)

Puerco · Post by **Puerco** » Wed Dec 27, 2017 3:31 pm

Awesome stuff YDF. Must spread rep.

Beachcat97 · Post by **Beachcat97** » Wed Dec 27, 2017 8:35 pm

Can't wait to beat ASU on Saturday.

PieceOfMeat · Post by **PieceOfMeat** » Thu Dec 28, 2017 3:15 am

with football finally completing their toilet spiral, I need a win in basketball over assu.

don't let us down Cats

RiseAndFire · Post by **RiseAndFire** » Thu Dec 28, 2017 9:21 am

the thing that annoys me the most about asu's early success isn't that they're doing it with leftover recruits like 2* Evans, 3* Holder and Justice, and 4* White and Martin (compared to Miller having the #1 pick and 4/5* at every position)

its that they're playing a style closer to Lutes than we are with these lesser recruits and doing far better than we are with Millers repetitive claw-your-eyes-out PackLine-first approach. We routinely go 4-minute stretches without scoring, meanwhile the scummies are scoring 92 a game

Crazy to think asu plays more like Lutes teams than ua does now. smh

Spaceman Spiff · Post by **Spaceman Spiff** » Thu Dec 28, 2017 9:49 am

RiseAndFire wrote:the thing that annoys me the most about asu's early success isn't that they're doing it with leftover recruits like 2* Evans, 3* Holder and Justice, and 4* White and Martin (compared to Miller having the #1 pick and 4/5* at every position)

its that they're playing a style closer to Lutes than we are with these lesser recruits and doing far better than we are with Millers repetitive claw-your-eyes-out PackLine-first approach. We routinely go 4-minute stretches without scoring, meanwhile the scummies are scoring 92 a game

Crazy to think asu plays more like Lutes teams than ua does now. smh

You're a slack-jawed moron. ASU is 4th in AdjO and we're 6th. We have been back and forth with them most of the year. We're also far better in AdjD.

We've scored more than 80 points in 9 of 13 games. You've dropped some turds here, but this is one of the stinkier and messier.

CatFanOneMil · Post by **CatFanOneMil** » Thu Dec 28, 2017 10:29 am

Why everyone does not have r@f on block mode is the same reason why we can't have nice things.

YoDeFoe · Post by **YoDeFoe** » Thu Dec 28, 2017 10:54 am

CatFanOneMil wrote:Why everyone does not have r@f on block mode is the same reason why we can't have nice things.

1. Click their name,
2. click "add foe",
3. enjoy.

UAEebs86 · Post by **UAEebs86** » Thu Dec 28, 2017 11:47 am

Doesn't work when people quote the trolls.

baycat93 · Post by **baycat93** » Thu Dec 28, 2017 11:48 am

UAEebs86 wrote:Doesn't work when people quote the trolls.

^^
this

Spaceman Spiff · Post by **Spaceman Spiff** » Thu Dec 28, 2017 11:53 am

UAEebs86 wrote:Doesn't work when people quote the trolls.

Rise and Fire doesn't even bother me. I'll stop quoting him if people want me to stop (heck, I'll delete my post from earlier). His arguments are so stupid that I can't even really get mad. I take a certain enjoyment in mocking his fixation on zone and feel no actual desire to seriously engage him.

Some trolls are so bad they're fun to mock. Plus, R+F is essentially only here when we lose. As soon as we lose a game, he's here to blame Miller and packline. Since we win a lot, it really limits his impact.

97cats · Post by **97cats** » Thu Dec 28, 2017 5:20 pm

PG - my only concern is the large advantage ASU has at PG.

time to attempt to stand tall, literally

Beachcat97 · Post by **Beachcat97** » Thu Dec 28, 2017 5:41 pm

97cats wrote:PG - my only concern is the large advantage ASU has at PG.

time to attempt to stand tall, literally

Does ASU run a zone? Seems that would be the obvious strategy to throw at us. If they play us M2M, why wouldn't we feed Ayton all night long? We did this in the final few minutes of the Bama game, and the guy was unstoppable.

What's the bigger story here, their PG advantage or the fact that we have the nation's best player?

Captain Obvious · Post by **Captain Obvious** » Thu Dec 28, 2017 6:51 pm

Beachcat97 wrote:
97cats wrote:PG - my only concern is the large advantage ASU has at PG.

time to attempt to stand tall, literally
Does ASU run a zone? Seems that would be the obvious strategy to throw at us. If they play us M2M, why wouldn't we feed Ayton all night long? We did this in the final few minutes of the Bama game, and the guy was unstoppable.

What's the bigger story here, their PG advantage or the fact that we have the nation's best player?

I think at this point of the season the bigger story is their PG advantage. They pass well and drive the ball well extending defensive players out of position. It's rare I think the Cats will lose a game (especially at home) but ASU is just a little better than we are at this point AS A TEAM. Ayton is by far the most talented and dominating player on either team but I don't believe it's enough to overcome ASU's offensive firepower. Our defense has improved but I think ASU is just too quick for us. That negates our size advantage. I'm debating whether Ristic should even play. I don't see him being effective at all in this game. I believe ASU will use a zone defense to see if we can handle it. If we can't it's going to be a very long game. If we can I believe we hang tough but fall a little short in the end. My prediction is ASU 95 Cats 87. What I think will happen is we develop more as a team and beat ASU in the rematch on their home court. We're still developing as a team; ASU has already figured it out. That's the biggest problem I see.

84Cat · Post by **84Cat** » Thu Dec 28, 2017 7:16 pm

Coach's take

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