Arizona Coaching Search

DrWildcat · Post by **DrWildcat** » Sat Jan 13, 2018 9:34 am

So who would Ken hire as coordinators? I would assume we won't be able to throw money at anyone to pull in these so called "great" coordinators he would need to be successful.

Merkin · Post by **Merkin** » Sat Jan 13, 2018 9:35 am

MrMeow wrote:
Harvey Specter wrote:
UofAlum05 wrote:Lots of people who don't know jack shit are seeing a few people pissed and have decided to join the bandwagon. I can promise 90% of the people upset haven't watched a Navy football game nor understand that the Triple Option is not what he will run here.

I've watched Navy a lot because I follow AAC football. They are so well coached it is disgusting. They do all the right things, the play calling, situational awareness, and decision making is absolutely elite. And no it isn't because they run the Triple Option or a disciplined service academy. They are just crazy well coached team.

I wanted Sumlin but it appears he wasn't convinced he could win here despite us coming up with the money. Arizona isn't a desirable job, just face it. Would you want to coach at a place that has no money and half empty stadiums in the second half? Go to games around the country. Arizona football just sucks compared to other stadiums and places you walk into.

I strongly believe the Ken N is by far the best that we could have done.
The rest of your take is highly debatable, but the part in bold is flat out nonsense.

The way they play has a LOT to do with them being a service academy... and that is 100% a statement of respect and not criticism.

But if you want to attribute of hard, smart, disciplined play of military cadets 100% to the coach, be my guest.
Serious question: what is it about being a service academy that demands it run a triple option offense in order to succeed?

Used to be the strict weight limits on the military required gimmicky offenses and defenses to succeed. But those were waived some time ago for athletes at the academies, but they do have to get to weight once their playing days are over. Someone earlier posted the Navy roster and they had a couple players over 300 pounds, and several more very close to it.

ChooChooCat · Post by **ChooChooCat** » Sat Jan 13, 2018 9:37 am

Chicat wrote:
ChooChooCat wrote:Im not in love with the hire, but fuck the players.
I guess if you’re gonna have a hall of fame of regrettable takes, one is going to stand out above the others.

They've acted like petulant children, I have zero sympathy for any of their causes, beliefs, what have you. At this point I'm all for a purge. It's football anyways so whatever.

ChooChooCat · Post by **ChooChooCat** » Sat Jan 13, 2018 9:39 am

btfd16 wrote:
Chicat wrote:
Alieberman wrote:The reality is... we will probably continue to be all middle of the Pac team with some years being a ray of hope and others near the bottom... same as we would be with any coach that we brought in.
Ehhhhhhhhhhhhh......

I mean, if that’s the case, why bother? Disband football and join the Zags and Saint Mary’s in the WCC.
There is no reason for me to believe we shouldn't be at the level of say a Louisville

Except they have major corporate sponsors to pay for numerous things and the city of Tucson doesn't.

Chicat · Post by **Chicat** » Sat Jan 13, 2018 9:41 am

ChooChooCat wrote:
Chicat wrote:
ChooChooCat wrote:Im not in love with the hire, but fuck the players.
I guess if you’re gonna have a hall of fame of regrettable takes, one is going to stand out above the others.
They've acted like petulant children, I have zero sympathy for any of their causes, beliefs, what have you. At this point I'm all for a purge. It's football anyways so whatever.

Put it on a plaque baby.

ChooChooCat · Post by **ChooChooCat** » Sat Jan 13, 2018 9:42 am

btfd16 wrote:
ChooChooCat wrote:
btfd16 wrote:
KillerKlown wrote:
Macho Grande wrote:
"Tripple" check?

At least this wild ride is over...I think?
I really hope the players give him a chance.
No kidding about the wild ride...Even if we get Bill Belichick, Heeke went about this hire horribly and hope Miller stays long enough we don't have to see it again.

I hope the players stick it out too. Don't mean to be cryptic, I am not going to name names because minds could always change, but from texts I have received, the responses have been lets just say.. not good.
Im not in love with the hire, but fuck the players.
Yeah man! Fuck these guys who don't get paid and aren't employees for caring about their future and who leads them! Fuck em!

Thanks for playing the violin and singing the song of the poor players and their plight.

They are more than welcome to be concerned about their future and who leads him, but there's a correct way to go about this and they've done the complete opposite. They're more than welcome to transfer if after meeting the coach and hearing his plans for them and they don't like it. I'm absolutely all for that, they've gone far beyond that and I have zero sympathy for any of the group who can't put twitter down.

catgrad97 · Post by **catgrad97** » Sat Jan 13, 2018 9:46 am

Chicat wrote:
Alieberman wrote:The reality is... we will probably continue to be all middle of the Pac team with some years being a ray of hope and others near the bottom... same as we would be with any coach that we brought in.
Ehhhhhhhhhhhhh......

I mean, if that’s the case, why bother? Disband football and join the Zags and Saint Mary’s in the WCC.

Yeah, I am at this point as well.

As I was with Dick Tomey before he brought in Homer Smith.

Sorry, but I stuck it out through those first six seasons of Ben Griffith and the wish-and-shoot--and how boned the program was under that system.

A revolving door of running backs and QBs with the only constant being an annual steamrolling on the road at UW, UCLA and/or USC? Always reacting, always playing from behind, plumbing the depths of our roster just to find a converted safety to play behind center or a converted defensive end to be an offensive tackle that week?

Just for a bunch of 6-5 and 4-7 seasons ending with a shutout in the Aloha Bowl?

No. No more Ben Griffith mediocrity. No more.

MrMeow · Post by **MrMeow** » Sat Jan 13, 2018 9:47 am

Merkin wrote:
MrMeow wrote:
Harvey Specter wrote:
UofAlum05 wrote:Lots of people who don't know jack shit are seeing a few people pissed and have decided to join the bandwagon. I can promise 90% of the people upset haven't watched a Navy football game nor understand that the Triple Option is not what he will run here.

I've watched Navy a lot because I follow AAC football. They are so well coached it is disgusting. They do all the right things, the play calling, situational awareness, and decision making is absolutely elite. And no it isn't because they run the Triple Option or a disciplined service academy. They are just crazy well coached team.

I wanted Sumlin but it appears he wasn't convinced he could win here despite us coming up with the money. Arizona isn't a desirable job, just face it. Would you want to coach at a place that has no money and half empty stadiums in the second half? Go to games around the country. Arizona football just sucks compared to other stadiums and places you walk into.

I strongly believe the Ken N is by far the best that we could have done.
The rest of your take is highly debatable, but the part in bold is flat out nonsense.

The way they play has a LOT to do with them being a service academy... and that is 100% a statement of respect and not criticism.

But if you want to attribute of hard, smart, disciplined play of military cadets 100% to the coach, be my guest.
Serious question: what is it about being a service academy that demands it run a triple option offense in order to succeed?
Used to be the strict weight limits on the military required gimmicky offenses and defenses to succeed. But those were waived some time ago for athletes at the academies, but they do have to get to weight once their playing days are over. Someone earlier posted the Navy roster and they had a couple players over 300 pounds, and several more very close to it.

Thank you, and that certainly makes sense, however, if the weight limits have been waived why do the service academies still use the triple option?

Postmaster · Post by **Postmaster** » Sat Jan 13, 2018 9:51 am

They still have a lot of smaller guys and not a lot of high end skill players required to be competative using standard schemes.

Merkin · Post by **Merkin** » Sat Jan 13, 2018 9:51 am

Not sure, maybe lack of athletes who have NFL desires?

ChooChooCat wrote: They are more than welcome to be concerned about their future and who leads him, but there's a correct way to go about this and they've done the complete opposite. They're more than welcome to transfer if after meeting the coach and hearing his plans for them and they don't like it. I'm absolutely all for that, they've gone far beyond that and I have zero sympathy for any of the group who can't put twitter down.

Got to agree with you here. Tate putting his cards on the table sure won't help his cause. Now he has to put up or shut up if Niumatalolo is hired. And being only 19, with a huge ego like all successful QBs, I imagine what his decision would be.

Niumatalolo could try to convince Tate to break Ricky Dobbs TD rushing record, but getting mauled by bigger faster PAC defenses than Dobbs faced may not be ideal, esp if Tate has NFL aspirations, which he most certainly does.

Chicat · Post by **Chicat** » Sat Jan 13, 2018 9:53 am

MrMeow wrote:
Merkin wrote:
MrMeow wrote:
Harvey Specter wrote:
UofAlum05 wrote:Lots of people who don't know jack shit are seeing a few people pissed and have decided to join the bandwagon. I can promise 90% of the people upset haven't watched a Navy football game nor understand that the Triple Option is not what he will run here.

I've watched Navy a lot because I follow AAC football. They are so well coached it is disgusting. They do all the right things, the play calling, situational awareness, and decision making is absolutely elite. And no it isn't because they run the Triple Option or a disciplined service academy. They are just crazy well coached team.

I wanted Sumlin but it appears he wasn't convinced he could win here despite us coming up with the money. Arizona isn't a desirable job, just face it. Would you want to coach at a place that has no money and half empty stadiums in the second half? Go to games around the country. Arizona football just sucks compared to other stadiums and places you walk into.

I strongly believe the Ken N is by far the best that we could have done.
The rest of your take is highly debatable, but the part in bold is flat out nonsense.

The way they play has a LOT to do with them being a service academy... and that is 100% a statement of respect and not criticism.

But if you want to attribute of hard, smart, disciplined play of military cadets 100% to the coach, be my guest.
Serious question: what is it about being a service academy that demands it run a triple option offense in order to succeed?
Used to be the strict weight limits on the military required gimmicky offenses and defenses to succeed. But those were waived some time ago for athletes at the academies, but they do have to get to weight once their playing days are over. Someone earlier posted the Navy roster and they had a couple players over 300 pounds, and several more very close to it.
Thank you, and that certainly makes sense, however, if the weight limits have been waived why do the service academies still use the triple option?

I thought I heard that Navy still had weight limits.

Edit: This article says they have to slim down to graduate, so maybe the deal is that none of them want to put on so much weight that they risk not losing it and fail to be able to advance their career?

https://www.washingtonpost.com/sports/c ... 4a20a42467" target="_blank

DrWildcat · Post by **DrWildcat** » Sat Jan 13, 2018 9:56 am

Chicat wrote:
I thought I heard that Navy still had weight limits.

Just need to hit it by graduation so they slim down after football.

Merkin · Post by **Merkin** » Sat Jan 13, 2018 9:57 am

DrWildcat wrote:
Chicat wrote:
I thought I heard that Navy still had weight limits.
Just need to hit it by graduation so they slim down after football.

Yep.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/sports/c ... 87e738c912" target="_blank

Exemption if that can make 22% body fat.

btfd16 · Post by **btfd16** » Sat Jan 13, 2018 9:58 am

DrWildcat wrote:
Chicat wrote:
I thought I heard that Navy still had weight limits.
Just need to hit it by graduation so they slim down after football.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/sports/c ... 38d216f03e" target="_blank

Either have to make weight or 22% body fat

Good article Merk.. Great minds.

ANGCatFan · Post by **ANGCatFan** » Sat Jan 13, 2018 10:01 am

Here is an SBNation article that covers some of the challenges of service academy recruiting.

Just a few of those filters:

Academics. At Air Force, prospective players need to have at least a 3.5 high school GPA, a 25 on the ACT in all subjects, and a minimum of a 1200 two-part SAT score. Requirements are similarly rigorous at the other service academies. Lt. Col. Gaylord Greene, who works in admissions at Army, said coaches will often encourage recruits to take more core courses, since the school requires more of them for entry than most others do.

Height and weight requirements. They differ slightly by academy, but at Air Force, a 6'4 applicant cannot weigh more than 221 pounds for admission -- and must also not weigh more than that upon graduation. In some cases at the academies, athletes can be over the height or weight limits but must still adhere to stringent body fat restrictions. This makes recruiting offensive linemen very difficult. "I'd love to have a bunch of 320-pound guys with good feet," Calhoun said. "We've never had a 285-pound kid, which is very small for a Division I offensive lineman. We usually average 255 pounds with our offensive line."

Mandatory military service. Unlike players who sign a normal scholarship tender, athletes at the service academies sign on to serve in active military duty after college. As expected, that "is a turnoff for a lot of kids," according to new Army head coach Jeff Monken.

Apply the academic filter, and suddenly the pool of prospects shrinks. The academies are forced to recruit similar kids as Stanford, Duke, Northwestern, and the Ivy League schools, yet none of those schools have to also worry about the additional filters of weight limits and mandatory military service.

. . .

Niumatalolo said his staff will look to identify undersized offensive linemen, corners with 4.6-second 40-yard dash times, and small defensive linemen who could turn into linebackers. It's an exhausting process, but if coaches look hard enough, they can find enough players who fit the very specific profiles. Once they find those players and get them to campus for official visits, Niumatalolo claims 90 percent of them end up committing.

"Since we recruit all 50 states," he said, "I believe there are enough student-athletes out there that have good grades that are willing to serve their country after."

. . .

The physical requirements at the service academies dictate their on-field style. All three are known for running option offenses. Navy, in particular, has become famous for perfecting the flexbone triple option. Former Navy coach Paul Johnson brought it to Georgia Tech with some success, with Monken a former assistant.

Because the academies can't have big offensive lines, they rely on athletic linemen and option misdirection to create running lanes and open up the field. The Midshipmen won a game in 2011 without completing a pass, as did Monken's GSU against Florida in 2013. In the past six years, all three academies have ranked in the FBS top four in rushing attempts per game, along with Georgia Tech.

Even though the linemen are small, they aren't nearly small enough to graduate within the requirements. That means they have to lose enormous amounts of weight between the ends of their senior seasons in December or January and graduation ceremonies in May. Niumatalolo said Navy routinely has players drop from 280 pounds to 220 or 230 in order to complete the fitness test of running a mile-and-a-half in 10 minutes and 30 seconds.

Niumatalolo said it's "not ideal," and it can be unsafe if not done properly, but the team has dieticians to ensure players are as healthy as possible about the way they lose the weight. They can burn some of it by not doing any heavy lifting.

. . .

Niumatalolo has taken the Midshipmen to five bowls in six years, and he has a 10-win season and two 9-win seasons two his name. In that time, his program has beaten Notre Dame twice (once at South Bend when the Irish were ranked), Wake Forest twice (once when the Deacons were ranked), Indiana twice, Pittsburgh, and Missouri.

Winning is the goal, and the coaches at all three academies believe they can win every game on their schedule. But when those coaches set out to find players, they have to keep something else in mind.

"We want tough people to serve our country," Niumatalolo said. "I also feel I have the obligation that we want people to come here that can protect us."

That's not something your average football coach worries about, but it comes with the territory when you take one of America's toughest coaching jobs. And somehow, it hasn't precluded winning.

MrMeow · Post by **MrMeow** » Sat Jan 13, 2018 10:08 am

Merkin wrote:
DrWildcat wrote:
Chicat wrote:
I thought I heard that Navy still had weight limits.
Just need to hit it by graduation so they slim down after football.
Yep.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/sports/c ... 87e738c912" target="_blank

Exemption if that can make 22% body fat.

I was once a business associate of a former San Diego Chargers offensive tackle. In his playing days, early 80s, he stood out for his size. He was huge. Three years later you would never know it. He had lost 50 lbs. It took a lot longer than a few months to lose the weight, so the service academy kids are smart to always keep their weight within reasonable limits.

Postmaster · Post by **Postmaster** » Sat Jan 13, 2018 10:16 am

Someone posted earlier that Tate was just trolling regarding all the Twitter stuff

prh · Post by **prh** » Sat Jan 13, 2018 10:21 am

Postmaster wrote:Someone posted earlier that Tate was just trolling regarding all the Twitter stuff

Even if he was trolling, it comes off looking very poor for him and the university. Same for a lot of the players, but Tate is the only one with a national profile.

Postmaster · Post by **Postmaster** » Sat Jan 13, 2018 10:26 am

Agree

btfd16 · Post by **btfd16** » Sat Jan 13, 2018 10:30 am

It’s now 1230 on the East Coast. Wasn’t he supposed to have a staff meeting this morning?

chiefzona · Post by **chiefzona** » Sat Jan 13, 2018 10:39 am

btfd16 wrote:It’s now 1230 on the East Coast. Wasn’t he supposed to have a staff meeting this morning?

Yes.

UofAlum05 · Post by **UofAlum05** » Sat Jan 13, 2018 10:46 am

I've got $5 that says he turned us down.

BBQ wildcat · Post by **BBQ wildcat** » Sat Jan 13, 2018 10:51 am

UofAlum05 wrote:I've got $5 that says he turned us down.

I sure hope so.

UAEebs86 · Post by **UAEebs86** » Sat Jan 13, 2018 10:52 am

UofAlum05 wrote:I've got $5 that says he turned us down.

The silence makes me think you might be right.

And fuck that poster that called you a troll. You are a valued poster here and at Scout.

Alieberman · Post by **Alieberman** » Sat Jan 13, 2018 10:53 am

I cannot wait to lock this thread

Make it end!!!!

btfd16 · Post by **btfd16** » Sat Jan 13, 2018 10:54 am

UofAlum05 wrote:I've got $5 that says he turned us down.

Spent all night talking myself into this hire, and now this might be a worse feeling than when the strong possibility of the hire was announced..

RondaeShimmy · Post by **RondaeShimmy** » Sat Jan 13, 2018 11:05 am

UofAlum05 wrote:I've got $5 that says he turned us down.

Charlie Weis is still available

Longhorned · Post by **Longhorned** » Sat Jan 13, 2018 11:28 am

I'm starting to feel it with Steve Price:

btfd16 · Post by **btfd16** » Sat Jan 13, 2018 11:46 am

Mood:

#CrypticChiefPost

MountainCat · Post by **MountainCat** » Sat Jan 13, 2018 11:47 am

The Silence is Deafening!

MountainCat · Post by **MountainCat** » Sat Jan 13, 2018 11:48 am

Longhorned wrote:I'm starting to feel it with Steve Price:

Is that Rudy?

Chicat · Post by **Chicat** » Sat Jan 13, 2018 11:59 am

Alieberman wrote:I cannot wait to lock this thread

Make it end!!!!

Nuke it from space. It’s the only way to be sure.

btfd16 · Post by **btfd16** » Sat Jan 13, 2018 12:00 pm

Don't worry guys. It will all be over in a few hours.

3goggles · Post by **3goggles** » Sat Jan 13, 2018 12:08 pm

btfd16 wrote:Don't worry guys. It will all be over in a few hours.

Who are you thinking?

btfd16 · Post by **btfd16** » Sat Jan 13, 2018 12:15 pm

3goggles wrote:
btfd16 wrote:Don't worry guys. It will all be over in a few hours.
Who are you thinking?

Judging from my previous posts, I will be very happy.

UAEebs86 · Post by **UAEebs86** » Sat Jan 13, 2018 12:15 pm

btfd16 wrote:
3goggles wrote:
btfd16 wrote:Don't worry guys. It will all be over in a few hours.
Who are you thinking?
Judging from my previous posts, I will be very happy.

Whoa. Something changed?

NYCat · Post by **NYCat** » Sat Jan 13, 2018 12:16 pm

Are search firms the stupidest fucking thing in college athletics? It's one of the most blatant money grabs and rip-offs in which they only recommend friends. BTW Purdue, Oregon St, Arizona who Les Miles has "shown interest" in have all used DHR as a search firm. I don't necessarily want Les, I need the swagcopter in my life, but this is ridiculous. Maybe he's only trying to keep his name out there, but he's being completely shut out.

All these search firms end up doing is getting a "safe" and "small" hire so they can be hired again and steal money from ADs who are inept.

OSUCat · Post by **OSUCat** » Sat Jan 13, 2018 12:17 pm

K must have turned us down. It is one thing to be turned down by Sumlin. Getting turned down by Ken is a bit embarrassing and a mistake by the AD.

btfd16 · Post by **btfd16** » Sat Jan 13, 2018 12:20 pm

Side note: Players are signing a petition for Yates. It won't work. They act like they're Oregon except Cristobal is proven and can recruit.

chiefzona · Post by **chiefzona** » Sat Jan 13, 2018 12:25 pm

OSUCat wrote:K must have turned us down. It is one thing to be turned down by Sumlin. Getting turned down by Ken is a bit embarrassing and a mistake by the AD.

Sumlin didn’t turn anything down.

ramcat · Post by **ramcat** » Sat Jan 13, 2018 12:31 pm

https://twitter.com/msymsick17/status/9 ... twterm%5E0" target="_blank

Can't be True, right?!

UAEebs86 · Post by **UAEebs86** » Sat Jan 13, 2018 12:33 pm

Wait what?

NYCat · Post by **NYCat** » Sat Jan 13, 2018 12:35 pm

ramcat wrote:https://twitter.com/msymsick17/status/9 ... twterm%5E0

Can't be True, right?!

It's very clearly a joke

azgreg · Post by **azgreg** » Sat Jan 13, 2018 12:35 pm

azgreg · Post by **azgreg** » Sat Jan 13, 2018 12:40 pm

btfd16 · Post by **btfd16** » Sat Jan 13, 2018 12:43 pm

chiefzona wrote:
OSUCat wrote:K must have turned us down. It is one thing to be turned down by Sumlin. Getting turned down by Ken is a bit embarrassing and a mistake by the AD.

Sumlin didn’t turn anything down.

Correct.

UAEebs86 · Post by **UAEebs86** » Sat Jan 13, 2018 12:44 pm

btfd16 wrote:
chiefzona wrote:
OSUCat wrote:K must have turned us down. It is one thing to be turned down by Sumlin. Getting turned down by Ken is a bit embarrassing and a mistake by the AD.

Sumlin didn’t turn anything down.
Correct.

Never offered?

chiefzona · Post by **chiefzona** » Sat Jan 13, 2018 12:44 pm

UAEebs86 wrote:
btfd16 wrote:
chiefzona wrote:
OSUCat wrote:K must have turned us down. It is one thing to be turned down by Sumlin. Getting turned down by Ken is a bit embarrassing and a mistake by the AD.

Sumlin didn’t turn anything down.
Correct.
Never offered?

Yet.

NYCat · Post by **NYCat** » Sat Jan 13, 2018 12:45 pm

So Heeke knew he wanted to fire Rich Rodriguez after the ASU game but couldn't find someone during the time before the official firing? Now he can't close a deal with anyone. Should've kept Rodriguez or named Yates interim head coach for year, utter incompetence.

UAEebs86 · Post by **UAEebs86** » Sat Jan 13, 2018 12:45 pm

chiefzona wrote:
UAEebs86 wrote:
btfd16 wrote:
chiefzona wrote:
OSUCat wrote:K must have turned us down. It is one thing to be turned down by Sumlin. Getting turned down by Ken is a bit embarrassing and a mistake by the AD.

Sumlin didn’t turn anything down.
Correct.
Never offered?

Yet.

Still a chance?

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