2017-2018 Arizona Basketball

Longhorned · Post by **Longhorned** » Sat Mar 03, 2018 7:04 pm

UAEebs86 wrote:
Longhorned wrote:Which west coast writer pre-season picked Arizona to finish 4th in conference?

Had to be Goodman, right?

No, a local writer. I think it was a Eugene, Oregon writer.

Captain Obvious · Post by **Captain Obvious** » Sat Mar 03, 2018 7:05 pm

Longhorned wrote:Which west coast writer pre-season picked Arizona to finish 4th in conference?

Greg Hansen?

Longhorned · Post by **Longhorned** » Sat Mar 03, 2018 7:06 pm

Captain Obvious wrote:
Longhorned wrote:Which west coast writer pre-season picked Arizona to finish 4th in conference?
Greg Hansen?

Probably.

azgreg · Post by **azgreg** » Sat Mar 03, 2018 7:16 pm

Longhorned · Post by **Longhorned** » Sat Mar 03, 2018 7:18 pm

Can we just take a moment and acknowledge that this team won the conference championship outright?

And in spite of the hell they endured, which is even greater than the hell we endured?

I know we don't all agree on this here, but this conference is seriously underrated. Measuring conference strength by what happens in November and December is a major, major fallacy. There are many teams in this conference that would give any team in America a hell of a game.

And, again, I know we don't all agree on this here, but the old school truth has never changed: It's a bigger accomplishment to win a conference championship than it is to win four games in a row on neutral floors. This isn't about luck and the insanity of a one-and-out tourney where anything can happen, and the better team loses. It's about consistency, knowing your enemies who know you, and persevering through 18 games, including 9 road games with a target on your back.

Congratulations Wildcat Nation! Bear Down.

I love you, Bobby.

UAEebs86 · Post by **UAEebs86** » Sat Mar 03, 2018 7:19 pm

16 out of 33 is pretty good, right?

azgreg · Post by **azgreg** » Sat Mar 03, 2018 7:24 pm

UAEebs86 · Post by **UAEebs86** » Sat Mar 03, 2018 7:26 pm

It was pretty cool when Sean told Romar to go up and cut a string (the last one), but Lorenzo cut a side string instead so Sean could cut the last one.

EastCoastCat · Post by **EastCoastCat** » Sat Mar 03, 2018 7:38 pm

I like how CSM didn't keep a string and threw the net.

I'm sure he wants to wait for a much more important net to cut down...

UAEebs86 · Post by **UAEebs86** » Sat Mar 03, 2018 7:42 pm

PieceOfMeat wrote:Pac 12 Champs, yet again.

Go ahead and take the night off USC.

NYCat · Post by **NYCat** » Thu Mar 08, 2018 4:34 pm

Under 90 again on Kenpom adjusted defense! Currently at 89

3goggles · Post by **3goggles** » Thu Mar 08, 2018 10:16 pm

Where would this program be if 4 years ago we take Mcgloughlin instead of PJC?

zonagrad · Post by **zonagrad** » Thu Mar 08, 2018 10:38 pm

3goggles wrote:Where would this program be if 4 years ago we take Mcgloughlin instead of PJC?

Stop twisting the knife.

Chicat · Post by **Chicat** » Sat Mar 10, 2018 10:10 pm

PAC-12 Regular Season & Tournament Champions!

PieceOfMeat · Post by **PieceOfMeat** » Sat Mar 10, 2018 10:10 pm

pac12 tourney champs, yet again.

::::

lol chi, beat me by a second

84Cat · Post by **84Cat** » Sat Mar 10, 2018 10:11 pm

Never gets old either

PieceOfMeat · Post by **PieceOfMeat** » Sat Mar 10, 2018 10:11 pm

84Cat wrote:Never gets old either

It sure doesn't

Alieberman · Post by **Alieberman** » Sat Mar 10, 2018 10:11 pm

Peeking

Healthy

Defense has finally shown up

Solid PG play

Nobody can stop Ayton

SRs are so important for a run.... and ours are playing like it

Let's fucking win this thing

UAEebs86 · Post by **UAEebs86** » Sat Mar 10, 2018 10:17 pm

Chicat wrote:PAC-12 Regular Season & Tournament Champions!

Back to back for the first time since the 88-89-90 threepeat.

prh · Post by **prh** » Sat Mar 10, 2018 10:19 pm

Well then I guess there's only one left to do...

Gladiator Cat · Post by **Gladiator Cat** » Sat Mar 10, 2018 10:27 pm

A few days ago I stated that I didn't think this team would do much in the Big Dance. The last two games have proved my thoughts as fatally flawed.

Yeah, I'm back tracking.......the team I just saw win the PAC 12 Tournament is absolutely going to make some noise this year.

If we play with max effort and get a little luck along the way it could be a story book ending. Ayton is the X factor if there ever was one. We will have the best player in college basketball every game we step on the floor.

Irish27 · Post by **Irish27** » Sat Mar 10, 2018 10:33 pm

It's crazy to think they won the regular season and Pac-12 tournament and they do not have a single recruit commit for next year. Let's hope things change very soon.

84Cat · Post by **84Cat** » Sat Mar 10, 2018 10:35 pm

Gladiator Cat · Post by **Gladiator Cat** » Sat Mar 10, 2018 10:36 pm

Irish27 wrote:It's crazy to think they won the regular season and Pac-12 tournament and they do not have a single recruit commit for next year. Let's hope things change very soon.

Yes sir, that's why this year is so important. Its time to dance while the music is still playing.

TatetheGreat · Post by **TatetheGreat** » Sat Mar 10, 2018 10:59 pm

LET'S FUCKING GO!!!! Great second half with excellent defense. USC played the better first half but we shut the door in the last 15 mins. The turnovers could have fucked us we're finally playing good team defense. I would have liked to see our guards take the ball to the hoop more but as long as we feed Ayton we should be okay. It's tourney time! Bear Down!!!!!

billk78 · Post by **billk78** » Sun Mar 11, 2018 8:55 am

I've noticed that during the Pac tournament Miller cut down on substitutions A LOT. Our starting 5 was on the floor for most of the games. Some minutes for Smith, Akot and Pinder to spell, but overall he is riding our big 5....and rightfully so. Just hope their conditioning this late in the year is good enough to sustain a long run. But I did think less use of the bench helped us win these games.

Merkin · Post by **Merkin** » Sun Mar 11, 2018 9:01 am

prh · Post by **prh** » Sun Mar 11, 2018 9:04 am

billk78 wrote:I've noticed that during the Pac tournament Miller cut down on substitutions A LOT. Our starting 5 was on the floor for most of the games. Some minutes for Smith, Akot and Pinder to spell, but overall he is riding our big 5....and rightfully so. Just hope their conditioning this late in the year is good enough to sustain a long run. But I did think less use of the bench helped us win these games.

I was thinking the same thing, so I looked it up.

Smith averaged 11.7 mpg in tourney, down from 15 on the year.
Keanu averaged 13 mpg in tourney, up from 10 on the year.
Akot averaged 7.3 mpg in tourney, down from 10 on the year.

Overall that's a total drop of 3 mpg. Not as drastic as I had imagined, although I'm biased because I love what Keanu brings in his minutes, and I'm happy seeing him get more. Especially if it helps keep Ayton and Ristic fresh and playing as well as they have lately.

If we're just counting Smith/Akot, then it's a drop of 6 total mpg, which seems reasonable. I'm wondering if it's not so much they are getting fewer minutes, but that Sean tried to keep Parker/Zo/Rawle more fresh throughout the season and now it's time to let them loose.

Alieberman · Post by **Alieberman** » Sun Mar 11, 2018 9:13 am

Unless we get in serious foul trouble, we are an 8 man rotation. But for Smith to continue getting any minutes he must hit his wide open 3s

zonagrad · Post by **zonagrad** » Sun Mar 11, 2018 9:45 am

Alieberman wrote:Unless we get in serious foul trouble, we are an 8 man rotation. But for Smith to continue getting any minutes he must hit his wide open 3s

Smith was 0- Vegas on 3 pt. attempts. He hit one field goal.

He can give us an enormous boost in an upcoming game by knocking down some 3's, playing solid D and taking care of the ball.

Miller is gonna have a short leash with him.

Would love to see IRA Lee contribute.

UAEebs86 · Post by **UAEebs86** » Sun Mar 11, 2018 9:47 am

Looks like Randolph is in Miller's doghouse. Did he play in Vegas?

prh · Post by **prh** » Sun Mar 11, 2018 9:59 am

UAEebs86 wrote:Looks like Randolph is in Miller's doghouse. Did he play in Vegas?

Don't think so. Just so poor defensively. If Smith isn't turning the ball over and successfully making entry passes, then I'm fine with him taking all the bench guard minutes. That's really all we need, especially if we aren't playing lineups with all the bench guys at once like in the regular season.

Merkin · Post by **Merkin** » Sun Mar 11, 2018 10:00 am

Smith's last 3 was March 3rd v. Cal. Since then he has been 0-3, 0-2 and 0-5.

However, he has only 1 TO in that time, which seems way low.

Randolph did not play v. UCLA and USC and only 3 minutes v. the Buffs. Not a practice player from what I have read, no motor.

DiehardDave37 · Post by **DiehardDave37** » Sun Mar 11, 2018 1:10 pm

I don't expect to see Lee in close games. Pinder is starting to play like a 5th year senior. I think that is why Pinder's minutes have gone up in the post season. Keanu is getting Ira's minutes.

Spaceman Spiff · Post by **Spaceman Spiff** » Sun Mar 11, 2018 2:38 pm

zonagrad wrote:
Alieberman wrote:Unless we get in serious foul trouble, we are an 8 man rotation. But for Smith to continue getting any minutes he must hit his wide open 3s
Smith was 0- Vegas on 3 pt. attempts. He hit one field goal.

He can give us an enormous boost in an upcoming game by knocking down some 3's, playing solid D and taking care of the ball.

Miller is gonna have a short leash with him.

Would love to see IRA Lee contribute.

I think we constricted our rotation and Lee is on the outside with Randolph.

YoDeFoe · Post by **YoDeFoe** » Sun Mar 11, 2018 4:40 pm

What Spiff said. It’s normal. No sense playing eleven guys - just need seven or eight.

PennZona20 · Post by **PennZona20** » Sun Mar 11, 2018 10:31 pm

Keep in mind we played 3 straight days as well.

Factor in the longer tv timeouts and importance of these games, and we are going to ride our starting 5 as long as foul trouble let’s us.

Akot, Smith, and Pinder will get short spurts (hopefully not all at once) but no one else will see the floor unless it’s a blowout.

EVCat · Post by **EVCat** » Mon Mar 12, 2018 9:49 am

We will not face anything like Vegas in the tournament. 2 games in 3 days vs 3 in 3, then if you advance, another 4 to 5 off.

And the timeouts...the full TV timeouts. What are there...16 full time outs potentially in a game? Near 3 minute time outs in a 40 minute game?

Foul trouble is the only reason the bench should get extended run. I think the bench thing is way overrated in college basketball. Foul trouble is the one caveat.

Spaceman Spiff · Post by **Spaceman Spiff** » Mon Mar 12, 2018 10:00 am

I meant what I said when I said it looks like Ayton is taking this personally and he's on a mission. As long as he does that, the only reason he needs to sit is foul trouble. Other than that, call all your timeouts and play him 40. He's the biggest mismatch in CBB, so put it on him and let him go balls deep on every opponent.

dovecanyoncat · Post by **dovecanyoncat** » Mon Mar 12, 2018 10:20 am

Spaceman Spiff wrote:I meant what I said when I said it looks like Ayton is taking this personally and he's on a mission. As long as he does that, the only reason he needs to sit is foul trouble. Other than that, call all your timeouts and play him 40. He's the biggest mismatch in CBB, so put it on him and let him go balls deep on every opponent.

#AytonBallsDeep

YoDeFoe · Post by **YoDeFoe** » Mon Mar 12, 2018 10:55 am

Spaceman Spiff wrote:I meant what I said when I said it looks like Ayton is taking this personally and he's on a mission. As long as he does that, the only reason he needs to sit is foul trouble. Other than that, call all your timeouts and play him 40. He's the biggest mismatch in CBB, so put it on him and let him go balls deep on every opponent.

The whole team figuring out how to play off of Ayton has been great to see.

It began early in the season with Ayton recognizing the double and passing out of it. Then the double began to come more quickly on Ayton... then it was an automatic double and they're swarming passing lanes at the same time... now it's double Ayton, send one to Ristic and try to stay in distance of the strong side three point shooters.

Very cool to see the team recognize the ways teams have tried to get Ayton out of his rhythm and take advantage of the open space that he creates / forces the defense to give up.

The passing to Dusan or Pinder out of the double was step 1. The kick out to PJC for the open three was step 2. Rawle rim running off the perimeter is the next level.

The Dunk was a play that looked "broken" but in reality, the defense had run ragged to collapse on Ayton and cut off his outlet to Dusan and close out on three point shooters... leaving the lane to the bucket wide open. That kind of play we saw over and over in the Pac-12 tournament... where the offense probed and kicked and probed and kicked and used Ayton and Ristic to yank the defense out of good spacing and fundamentals and to put them on their heels.

That's how Trier and Rawle and PJC were able to attack the rim later in those games. The defenses just got physically and mentally exhausted covering the bigs with doubles and then also closing out to the perimeter shooters and then also... It's just too much to cover. Then even if the ball comes off the rim, the defense is so out of sorts they're having a tough time boxing out our bigs and Rawle on the offensive glass.

Using Ayton (and Ristic)... I've never seen a more disruptive initial offense in college basketball and I'm thrilled to see us playing through it.

Spaceman Spiff · Post by **Spaceman Spiff** » Mon Mar 12, 2018 10:58 am

YoDeFoe wrote:
Spaceman Spiff wrote:I meant what I said when I said it looks like Ayton is taking this personally and he's on a mission. As long as he does that, the only reason he needs to sit is foul trouble. Other than that, call all your timeouts and play him 40. He's the biggest mismatch in CBB, so put it on him and let him go balls deep on every opponent.
The whole team figuring out how to play off of Ayton has been great to see.

It began early in the season with Ayton recognizing the double and passing out of it. Then the double began to come more quickly on Ayton... then it was an automatic double and they're swarming passing lanes at the same time... now it's double Ayton, send one to Ristic and try to stay in distance of the strong side three point shooters.

Very cool to see the team recognize the ways teams have tried to get Ayton out of his rhythm and take advantage of the open space that he creates / forces the defense to give up.

The passing to Dusan or Pinder out of the double was step 1. The kick out to PJC for the open three was step 2. Rawle rim running off the perimeter is the next level.

The Dunk was a play that looked "broken" but in reality, the defense had run ragged to collapse on Ayton and cut off his outlet to Dusan and close out on three point shooters... leaving the lane to the bucket wide open. That kind of play we saw over and over in the Pac-12 tournament... where the offense probed and kicked and probed and kicked and used Ayton and Ristic to yank the defense out of good spacing and fundamentals and to put them on their heels.

That's how Trier and Rawle and PJC were able to attack the rim later in those games. The defenses just got physically and mentally exhausted covering the bigs with doubles and then also closing out to the perimeter shooters and then also... It's just too much to cover. Then even if the ball comes off the rim, the defense is so out of sorts they're having a tough time boxing out our bigs and Rawle on the offensive glass.

Using Ayton (and Ristic)... I've never seen a more disruptive initial offense in college basketball and I'm thrilled to see us playing through it.

I said this in the other thread, but zone means Ayton gets 8-10 offensive rebound putbacks. He just can't be f***ed with if you play zone. When he gets frisky, you need two guys to wrap him us and keep him off the offensive glass.

YoDeFoe · Post by **YoDeFoe** » Mon Mar 12, 2018 11:04 am

Spaceman Spiff wrote:I said this in the other thread, but zone means Ayton gets 8-10 offensive rebound putbacks. He just can't be f***ed with if you play zone. When he gets frisky, you need two guys to wrap him us and keep him off the offensive glass.

Spiff how would you defend against this Arizona team?

I keep thinking "I would never zone them" with both Ristic and Ayton able to gobble up mid range jumpers and OReb second chance shots... but what can a team do?

baycat93 · Post by **baycat93** » Mon Mar 12, 2018 11:13 am

YoDeFoe wrote:
Spaceman Spiff wrote:I said this in the other thread, but zone means Ayton gets 8-10 offensive rebound putbacks. He just can't be f***ed with if you play zone. When he gets frisky, you need two guys to wrap him us and keep him off the offensive glass.
Spiff how would you defend against this Arizona team?

I keep thinking "I would never zone them" with both Ristic and Ayton able to gobble up mid range jumpers and OReb second chance shots... but what can a team do?

Not Spiff, but:

Zone or Man I would sell out with ball pressure. especially on our wings.

Front/semi front our bigs and make us throw that horrible super high entry pass that is good for like 5 turnovers a game.

If in zone... push Ayton/Ristic as far out as possible when they come up high to receive the ball. Force that elbow jumper as far out as possible. They are either on or off. Pray they are off.

Hope and Pray.

YoDeFoe · Post by **YoDeFoe** » Mon Mar 12, 2018 11:22 am

baycat93 wrote:
YoDeFoe wrote:
Spaceman Spiff wrote:I said this in the other thread, but zone means Ayton gets 8-10 offensive rebound putbacks. He just can't be f***ed with if you play zone. When he gets frisky, you need two guys to wrap him us and keep him off the offensive glass.
Spiff how would you defend against this Arizona team?

I keep thinking "I would never zone them" with both Ristic and Ayton able to gobble up mid range jumpers and OReb second chance shots... but what can a team do?
Not Spiff, but:

Zone or Man I would sell out with ball pressure. especially on our wings.

Front/semi front our bigs and make us throw that horrible super high entry pass that is good for like 5 turnovers a game.

If in zone... push Ayton/Ristic as far out as possible when they come up high to receive the ball. Force that elbow jumper as far out as possible. They are either on or off. Pray they are off.

Hope and Pray.

That seems to be the running theory on defending this team.

Really want Trier attacking the basket and forcing contact when they pressure the ball on the wing. It's a back breaker, much like connecting on that arcing post entry pass.

Spaceman Spiff · Post by **Spaceman Spiff** » Mon Mar 12, 2018 11:37 am

baycat93 wrote:
YoDeFoe wrote:
Spaceman Spiff wrote:I said this in the other thread, but zone means Ayton gets 8-10 offensive rebound putbacks. He just can't be f***ed with if you play zone. When he gets frisky, you need two guys to wrap him us and keep him off the offensive glass.
Spiff how would you defend against this Arizona team?

I keep thinking "I would never zone them" with both Ristic and Ayton able to gobble up mid range jumpers and OReb second chance shots... but what can a team do?
Not Spiff, but:

Zone or Man I would sell out with ball pressure. especially on our wings.

Front/semi front our bigs and make us throw that horrible super high entry pass that is good for like 5 turnovers a game.

If in zone... push Ayton/Ristic as far out as possible when they come up high to receive the ball. Force that elbow jumper as far out as possible. They are either on or off. Pray they are off.

Hope and Pray.

Call me crazy, but I'd go man and sort of do the opposite, sag like a mfer.

Why? Arizona is at its best when we're using the dribble or pass to get closer to the basket. If you run a sagging man, you hope to encourage a lot of horizontal ball movement and people standing and taking threes off rotation. This means Ayton and Dusan aren't posting and Zo and Rawle aren't driving.

Of course, if we hit those 3's you need a Plan B. The other advantage of sagging is that we have a tendency to commit unforced TO's, which could make up for the difference in lacking ball pressure. If you can get Arizona shooting fast, you can accelerate and exploit our short bench.

So, maybe I'm nuts, but:

azgreg · Post by **azgreg** » Mon Mar 12, 2018 11:39 am

YoDeFoe wrote:
Spaceman Spiff wrote:I said this in the other thread, but zone means Ayton gets 8-10 offensive rebound putbacks. He just can't be f***ed with if you play zone. When he gets frisky, you need two guys to wrap him us and keep him off the offensive glass.
Spiff how would you defend against this Arizona team?

I keep thinking "I would never zone them" with both Ristic and Ayton able to gobble up mid range jumpers and OReb second chance shots... but what can a team do?

I'd have Ayton kidnapped the night before the game.

Longhorned · Post by **Longhorned** » Mon Mar 12, 2018 11:40 am

baycat93 wrote:
YoDeFoe wrote:
Spaceman Spiff wrote:I said this in the other thread, but zone means Ayton gets 8-10 offensive rebound putbacks. He just can't be f***ed with if you play zone. When he gets frisky, you need two guys to wrap him us and keep him off the offensive glass.
Spiff how would you defend against this Arizona team?

I keep thinking "I would never zone them" with both Ristic and Ayton able to gobble up mid range jumpers and OReb second chance shots... but what can a team do?
Not Spiff, but:

Zone or Man I would sell out with ball pressure. especially on our wings.

Front/semi front our bigs and make us throw that horrible super high entry pass that is good for like 5 turnovers a game.

If in zone... push Ayton/Ristic as far out as possible when they come up high to receive the ball. Force that elbow jumper as far out as possible. They are either on or off. Pray they are off.

Hope and Pray.

And when Ayton inevitably maneuvers with the ball in the block, press your body and face against him and then suddenly fling your head backwards and fall over.

Spaceman Spiff · Post by **Spaceman Spiff** » Mon Mar 12, 2018 11:46 am

Longhorned wrote:
baycat93 wrote:
YoDeFoe wrote:
Spaceman Spiff wrote:I said this in the other thread, but zone means Ayton gets 8-10 offensive rebound putbacks. He just can't be f***ed with if you play zone. When he gets frisky, you need two guys to wrap him us and keep him off the offensive glass.
Spiff how would you defend against this Arizona team?

I keep thinking "I would never zone them" with both Ristic and Ayton able to gobble up mid range jumpers and OReb second chance shots... but what can a team do?
Not Spiff, but:

Zone or Man I would sell out with ball pressure. especially on our wings.

Front/semi front our bigs and make us throw that horrible super high entry pass that is good for like 5 turnovers a game.

If in zone... push Ayton/Ristic as far out as possible when they come up high to receive the ball. Force that elbow jumper as far out as possible. They are either on or off. Pray they are off.

Hope and Pray.
And when Ayton inevitably maneuvers with the ball in the block, press your body and face against him and then suddenly fling your head backwards and fall over.

In all seriousness, trying to get Ayton in foul trouble is legit. Run him in the pick and roll constantly. Dive into his body.

He's the one guy you really can't scheme for. He does so much to constrict defensive options just by existing.

TucsonClip · Post by **TucsonClip** » Mon Mar 12, 2018 1:19 pm

To me, its not about how teams defend us as much it is how they force us to defend them.

Defensively, I agree with Spiff. I would sag off everyone, give Ayton those mid-range jumpers, and I would blitz and double Trier on all ball screens.

Offensively, I need to use your weaknesses as my advantage. How? I would go back what ive been talking about all season...

I would run Ristic into a high ball screen coming off the wing each time down the floor. More specifically, I would run it off an empty wing, and I would pinpoint PJC as the guy needed to provide the help. Its a set I mentioned in a few breakdowns that NBA coaches would expose a team with, but not all college coaches are willing to run that same set 4, 5, 6, 7+ times in a row.

The set:

Run our typical motion offense, dribble weave, ect. something to stagnate our attention early. The goal here is to loop PJC's man into the weak side corner, overload the weak side of the floor (PJC, Ayton, Rawle/Trier), set my ball handler/attacker on the opposite wing, and pull Ristic into a side ball screen (because we hard hedge side ball screens).

Plenty of reasons for this.

1. Ristic hard hedging
2. Attacking out of an empty wing (weak side is overloaded, no natural helper)
3. Isolating PJC as the defender who has to help off his man, in the weak side corner, to tag the roll/dive big all the way across the floor at the rim.
4. Ideally this is run out of a horns set, so Ayton is lifted away from the rim and defending his man on the opposite elbow/wing.

This ball screen (attacking Ristic), and help rotation (PJC sliding all the way from the corner to the strong side block) to defend a diving big man, has been the one that gives us the most trouble, and for obvious reasons. I would run it until Arizona showed they could stop it. I would then come back to it a few minutes later, and run it again, and again.

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