UCLA Basketball in trouble!

U.P. Zona Fan · Post by **U.P. Zona Fan** » Tue Mar 13, 2018 8:39 pm

MountainCat wrote:ESPN is informing the world that the pac12 doesn't play any zone defense and that's why UCLA lost. If that's the case, then what the hell did we play against all season long?

I heard that too, who is Washington's coach? Who did he work for prior? (Rhetorical)

And now UCLA is goliath.

Longhorned · Post by **Longhorned** » Tue Mar 13, 2018 8:42 pm

It's one thing to lose. But holy holy did they look uncoached.

Spaceman Spiff · Post by **Spaceman Spiff** » Tue Mar 13, 2018 8:47 pm

MrBug708 wrote:
Spaceman Spiff wrote:
MrBug708 wrote:
TatetheGreat wrote:Wilkes and Hands going pro with Holiday?
wilkes is gone anyways. I've seen a rumor that if Alford stays, Hands is gone. These missed games or limited PT seems to be a conflict of personalities.
Well, maybe Hands shouldn't have picked a school based on Compton Magic's shoe affiliation.
Compton Magic is Adidas. Hands plays for a UA program

Hands committed before UCLA made the switch to UA. Compton Magic players have broken UCLA since Alford sold his soul to them and when UCLA hired that one assistant.

I mean, UCLA's lock on the Magic kids isn't accidental. I was joking to the extent that Hands (and too many others) make college decisions based on extrinsic factora waaay too much.

Longhorned · Post by **Longhorned** » Tue Mar 13, 2018 8:48 pm

I guess enjoy Shareef

dovecanyoncat · Post by **dovecanyoncat** » Tue Mar 13, 2018 8:48 pm

Longhorned wrote:It's one thing to lose. But holy holy did they look uncoached.

Was it 5 shot attempts from Welsh? Did Alford think the Bonnies were too small and fast for him to put up a shot more than once in the 2nd half?

CalStateTempe · Post by **CalStateTempe** » Tue Mar 13, 2018 8:51 pm

How does anyone read anything on bruinszone? It’s like 1998 technology over there.

Coincidentally the last time UCLA BB actually did anything of note.

MrBug708 · Post by **MrBug708** » Tue Mar 13, 2018 8:54 pm

CalStateTempe wrote:How does anyone read anything on bruinszone? It’s like 1998 technology over there.

Coincidentally the last time UCLA BB actually did anything of note.

That's some RC97 level unintentional irony there

scumdevils86 · Post by **scumdevils86** » Tue Mar 13, 2018 9:18 pm

Someone's butthurt

CalStateTempe · Post by **CalStateTempe** » Tue Mar 13, 2018 9:26 pm

Don’t stop believing bug.

MrBug708 · Post by **MrBug708** » Tue Mar 13, 2018 9:30 pm

CalStateTempe wrote:Don’t stop believing bug.

Never!

MrBug708 · Post by **MrBug708** » Tue Mar 13, 2018 9:30 pm

scumdevils86 wrote:Someone's butthurt

Your uncanny ability to read people is amazing.

U.P. Zona Fan · Post by **U.P. Zona Fan** » Tue Mar 13, 2018 9:32 pm

CalStateTempe wrote:Don’t stop believing bug.

And hold on to that feelieeyieeying!!!
Streetlights, people, whohowoooooahooooh!!!

Beachcat97 · Post by **Beachcat97** » Tue Mar 13, 2018 9:37 pm

Thanks, UCLA. Another noteworthy tourney performance, slightly worse than The Year of Lonzo.

And here’s the kicker: it doesn’t matter how godawful that program is, for some reason good players keep going there. Try figuring that one out.

Here’s hoping AZ can salvage the Pac’s reputation. Again.

UofAlum05 · Post by **UofAlum05** » Tue Mar 13, 2018 10:28 pm

Man and I thought our Sweet 16 loss to Xavier was humiliating. That final 10 minutes was a work of art of horrible by UCLA. I almost felt bad for them....almost.

UofAlum05 · Post by **UofAlum05** » Tue Mar 13, 2018 10:30 pm

MountainCat wrote:ESPN is informing the world that the pac12 doesn't play any zone defense and that's why UCLA lost. If that's the case, then what the hell did we play against all season long?

I heard that and my thoughts exactly. Every team we played tried to Zone us, including UCLA.

Underspoken topic from this season. Arizona figuring out how to shred Zone defenses, finally.

Bangkok Wildcat · Post by **Bangkok Wildcat** » Wed Mar 14, 2018 12:26 am

Way to crap the bed UCLA...Good grief, you played us like a Sweet 16 Team a few days ago yet what a pathetic performance tonight. Smh.

Merkin · Post by **Merkin** » Wed Mar 14, 2018 4:03 am

MountainCat · Post by **MountainCat** » Wed Mar 14, 2018 5:56 am

Merkin wrote:

Ouch!

Longhorned · Post by **Longhorned** » Wed Mar 14, 2018 7:33 am

Is it possible that Alford prepares his team for Kentucky, Arizona, and USC, and then just rides his team's talent against everyone else?

Chicat · Post by **Chicat** » Wed Mar 14, 2018 7:40 am

As everyone knew five years ago, Alford is not a good coach. And he hasn’t gotten any better.

So please extend his contract immediately.

Beachcat97 · Post by **Beachcat97** » Wed Mar 14, 2018 7:54 am

Chicat wrote:As everyone knew five years ago, Alford is not a good coach. And he hasn’t gotten any better.

So please extend his contract immediately.

He's not going anywhere. I don't think the AD wants to jeopardize that recruiting class. I also don't think there's an obvious successor in their sights. They'd replace Alford with another middling coach.

ByJoveByJingle · Post by **ByJoveByJingle** » Wed Mar 14, 2018 7:54 am

And the irony of it all is that the Bruin "faithful" have Miller tagged as a poor coach who only knows how to recruit (now buy). I guess I can understand the blindness. I was in the "Calipari can't coach" camp until he repeatedly took a bunch of players in the system for only one year to the Final Four. The assumption is that if you are recruiting at a high level you're just rolling the ball out there and letting the talent take care of the rest. But yes, extension for Alford!

Beachcat97 · Post by **Beachcat97** » Wed Mar 14, 2018 7:55 am

That was one of the worst performances I've ever seen from a UCLA team in the NCAA tourney. No fight. No urgency. Very little discernible coaching.

Merkin · Post by **Merkin** » Wed Mar 14, 2018 8:23 am

Beachcat97 · Post by **Beachcat97** » Wed Mar 14, 2018 8:28 am

Merkin wrote:

And they fired Howland! How many programs have ever fired a coach who got to three FFs? I don't know how DG still has a job.

Chicat · Post by **Chicat** » Wed Mar 14, 2018 9:01 am

Firing Howland wasn’t an irredeemable sin. He had lost all avenues to bringing in top talent and the program was on the downslope.

Hiring Alford was the truly bad decision. He brought all of Howland’s lack of charisma and at the same time he can’t coach for shit. At least Howland could prepare his team for every game.

Olsondogg · Post by **Olsondogg** » Wed Mar 14, 2018 9:09 am

Howland could coach. That was a huge downside for UCLA when switching to one that couldn't. I mean the proof was in the puddin with Alford prior to their hire.

Beachcat97 · Post by **Beachcat97** » Wed Mar 14, 2018 9:20 am

Chicat wrote:Firing Howland wasn’t an irredeemable sin. He had lost all avenues to bringing in top talent and the program was on the downslope.

Hiring Alford was the truly bad decision. He brought all of Howland’s lack of charisma and at the same time he can’t coach for shit. At least Howland could prepare his team for every game.

I get all that. But one would think that those avenues were reparable. Think of how many programs out there would kill for a FF appearance, let alone three! UCLA was crazy to let him go. Whatever mojo he had from 2006-08 he could've gotten back. Farmar, Afflalo, Westbrook...all local L.A. guys. Howland wasn't getting to the FF by recruiting nationally. He was doing very well with homegrown talent. All he had to do was get back to basics. I can't believe the fan base turned on him so quickly and so powerfully.

If Sean got to three FFs but then went through a downslope with recruiting, do you think we'd be calling for his job?

Merkin · Post by **Merkin** » Wed Mar 14, 2018 9:25 am

Howland did turn the Mississippi State program around, so the dude can still coach although UCLA letting him go was understandable.

Chicat · Post by **Chicat** » Wed Mar 14, 2018 9:30 am

Beachcat97 wrote:
Chicat wrote:Firing Howland wasn’t an irredeemable sin. He had lost all avenues to bringing in top talent and the program was on the downslope.

Hiring Alford was the truly bad decision. He brought all of Howland’s lack of charisma and at the same time he can’t coach for shit. At least Howland could prepare his team for every game.
I get all that. But one would think that those avenues were reparable. Think of how many programs out there would kill for a FF appearance, let alone three! UCLA was crazy to let him go. Whatever mojo he had from 2006-08 he could've gotten back. Farmar, Afflalo, Westbrook...all local L.A. guys. Howland wasn't getting to the FF by recruiting nationally. He was doing very well with homegrown talent. All he had to do was get back to basics. I can't believe the fan base turned on him so quickly and so powerfully.

If Sean got to three FFs but then went through a downslope with recruiting, do you think we'd be calling for his job?

Those avenues were not repairable because Howland refused to play the AAU/Shoe Company Game. Once those players stopped looking at the Bruins, Howland became so desperate for talent that he had an entire separate rule book for Reeves Nelson.

Also, in the five years after their run of final fours they went to the tourney only three times and never got out of the first weekend. That era coincided with our mess of Lute’s on again/off again retirement and the interim coaches. That was UCLA’s opportunity to reassert themselves in California recruiting and Howland dropped the ball big time. His firing was justified.

rgdeuce · Post by **rgdeuce** » Wed Mar 14, 2018 10:26 am

UCLA is dumb if they don't fire Alford. Common sense tells you those players aren't going to UCLA because of Alford.

MrBug708 · Post by **MrBug708** » Wed Mar 14, 2018 10:27 am

Merkin wrote:Howland did turn the Mississippi State program around, so the dude can still coach although UCLA letting him go was understandable.

Howland's relationship with his players there are already pretty volatile

enfuego · Post by **enfuego** » Wed Mar 14, 2018 10:28 am

Chicat wrote:
Beachcat97 wrote:
Chicat wrote:Firing Howland wasn’t an irredeemable sin. He had lost all avenues to bringing in top talent and the program was on the downslope.

Hiring Alford was the truly bad decision. He brought all of Howland’s lack of charisma and at the same time he can’t coach for shit. At least Howland could prepare his team for every game.
I get all that. But one would think that those avenues were reparable. Think of how many programs out there would kill for a FF appearance, let alone three! UCLA was crazy to let him go. Whatever mojo he had from 2006-08 he could've gotten back. Farmar, Afflalo, Westbrook...all local L.A. guys. Howland wasn't getting to the FF by recruiting nationally. He was doing very well with homegrown talent. All he had to do was get back to basics. I can't believe the fan base turned on him so quickly and so powerfully.

If Sean got to three FFs but then went through a downslope with recruiting, do you think we'd be calling for his job?
Those avenues were not repairable because Howland refused to play the AAU/Shoe Company Game. Once those players stopped looking at the Bruins, Howland became so desperate for talent that he had an entire separate rule book for Reeves Nelson.

Also, in the five years after their run of final fours they went to the tourney only three times and never got out of the first weekend. That era coincided with our mess of Lute’s on again/off again retirement and the interim coaches. That was UCLA’s opportunity to reassert themselves in California recruiting and Howland dropped the ball big time. His firing was justified.

Style of play was a factor as well. Howland's slow-ball wasn't exciting to watch and didn't draw much of a crowd to games.

Beachcat97 · Post by **Beachcat97** » Wed Mar 14, 2018 10:33 am

Chicat wrote: Those avenues were not repairable because Howland refused to play the AAU/Shoe Company Game. Once those players stopped looking at the Bruins, Howland became so desperate for talent that he had an entire separate rule book for Reeves Nelson.

Also, in the five years after their run of final fours they went to the tourney only three times and never got out of the first weekend. That era coincided with our mess of Lute’s on again/off again retirement and the interim coaches. That was UCLA’s opportunity to reassert themselves in California recruiting and Howland dropped the ball big time. His firing was justified.

Good points, Chi. Can't say I disagree. It's remarkable that Howland's situation at UCLA could go from sizzling to fireable so quickly.

The Nelson situation really strained that program. He was a program-killer. And Howland stood by him.

I guess we'll never know whether Howland could've righted the ship. I just thought they pulled the trigger firing him sorta quickly. How many FFs does it take to ensure a decade of job security at UCLA? More than three, I guess!

UofAlum05 · Post by **UofAlum05** » Wed Mar 14, 2018 10:36 am

Howland had burned bridges with every West Coast AAU program. That is about 95% of the reason he ended at UCLA. About that time those bridges burned Miller gladly built relationships with those programs who eventually turned on him to a degree. I thought Howland was a damn good coach but Miller/Arizona would be running laps around UCLA right now if he had stayed on. Alford, with the help of Grace, gladly accepted Adidas's help with the AAU programs. At the same time the Compton Magic cut off Arizona's access due to Gabe York's playing time and Adidas.

So in other words Alford has it on easy street but just sucks at coaching. It may very well be that he is just flat out lazy. Because the game plans he has drawn up for Arizona, Kentucky, and USC have been pretty good. But other nights they just look horribly coached.

I hate the narrative that Arizona has similar all-world talent like UCLA. Besides Ayton, I would trade for any UCLA player position by position. And I'm a huge fan of the guys on our team. But guys like Holiday, Hands, Wilkes, Prince, would be superstars in Tucson and sure fire bets to cut down the nets.

ByJoveByJingle · Post by **ByJoveByJingle** » Wed Mar 14, 2018 10:37 am

enfuego wrote:
Style of play was a factor as well. Howland's slow-ball wasn't exciting to watch and didn't draw much of a crowd to games.

“Pauley Pavilion averaged 8,073 fans at its home game during the 2015-2016 season, filling up roughly 59 percent of the available seats. This number plummets even lower without the impressive showings against Kentucky and Arizona.

Of the 17 home games, nine of them saw crowds with less than 6,900 fans, or less than 50 percent of Pauley Pavilion’s capacity.

The Bruins’ poor season did account for some of the blame behind student’s lack of motivation to attend games. Still, UCLA has winning percentage of .619 under Steve Alford and has gone to the NCAA tournament in two of his three seasons.

You might now be asking yourself, what happened to the school that once reached a national championship and saw home games average over 10,000 fans during the Ben Howland era?”

Beachcat97 · Post by **Beachcat97** » Wed Mar 14, 2018 11:07 am

UofAlum05 wrote:I hate the narrative that Arizona has similar all-world talent like UCLA. Besides Ayton, I would trade for any UCLA player position by position. And I'm a huge fan of the guys on our team. But guys like Holiday, Hands, Wilkes, Prince, would be superstars in Tucson and sure fire bets to cut down the nets.

Imagine Hands or Wilkes on this AZ team. Man.

It's going to be interesting going forward because obviously Miller has suffered a massive recruiting setback, thanks to Mark Schlabach and those in his corner. So there's a window here for UCLA, Oregon and others to gain some recruiting momentum. Oregon already landed Bol and is chasing BW. UCLA already landed Shareef. Can Miller recover quickly and maintain his recruiting dominance in the Pac, or are we looking at a 3 to 5 year period of being behind these other programs?

UCLA could fire Alford now, but I'm not sure there's someone out there who'd be appreciably better. They've been down this road before. It's not a job that draws the same interest it once did.

UofAlum05 · Post by **UofAlum05** » Wed Mar 14, 2018 11:15 am

Beachcat97 wrote:
UofAlum05 wrote:I hate the narrative that Arizona has similar all-world talent like UCLA. Besides Ayton, I would trade for any UCLA player position by position. And I'm a huge fan of the guys on our team. But guys like Holiday, Hands, Wilkes, Prince, would be superstars in Tucson and sure fire bets to cut down the nets.
Imagine Hands or Wilkes on this AZ team. Man.

It's going to be interesting going forward because obviously Miller has suffered a massive recruiting setback, thanks to Mark Schlabach and those in his corner. So there's a window here for UCLA, Oregon and others to gain some recruiting momentum. Oregon already landed Bol and is chasing BW. UCLA already landed Shareef. Can Miller recover quickly and maintain his recruiting dominance in the Pac, or are we looking at a 3 to 5 year period of being behind these other programs?

UCLA could fire Alford now, but I'm not sure there's someone out there who'd be appreciably better. They've been down this road before. It's not a job that draws the same interest it once did.

Miller had already had a set-back once he was barred from the Compton Magic and other Adidas AAU West Coast programs. I'm actually of the belief that is reason #1 why we are in the position we are in right now. Miller is a competitive SOB and once the Compton Magic/Adidas screwed him and then started feeding players to UCLA....and then ASU once UCLA signed with Under Armor......it forced Miller to look to Book to pull in some questionable recruits for the 2017 season and then look National going forward.

The night before the FBI indictments were served in the Fall, Kobi Simmons had posted a tweet of him signing with Adidas and then it was taken down after the arrests came out. I don't think that was any coincidence.

rgdeuce · Post by **rgdeuce** » Wed Mar 14, 2018 11:43 am

Miller will be back to recruiting top 5 classes on a regular basis, the only question is when. Just gonna depend on how long this storm cloud of uncertainty is going to hang over our head, or if and when many other programs join us.

Beachcat97 · Post by **Beachcat97** » Wed Mar 14, 2018 12:40 pm

rgdeuce wrote:Miller will be back to recruiting top 5 classes on a regular basis, the only question is when. Just gonna depend on how long this storm cloud of uncertainty is going to hang over our head, or if and when many other programs join us.

Miller is adamant about his innocence, and I happen to trust him. I think the university's vote of confidence is huge. The storm clouds will pass. A FF (or NC!) would be a powerful ray of sunshine.

Jefe · Post by **Jefe** » Wed Mar 14, 2018 3:55 pm

U.P. Zona Fan wrote:I heard on the radio today that a bonnies benefactor donated 10,000$ to buy students tickets and pay for bussing to Dayton. Apparently these fans are rabid, got a T in the home game against Rhode island for throwing stuff on the court after having been previously warned.

MrBug708 · Post by **MrBug708** » Wed Mar 14, 2018 4:57 pm

UofAlum05 wrote:Howland had burned bridges with every West Coast AAU program. That is about 95% of the reason he ended at UCLA. About that time those bridges burned Miller gladly built relationships with those programs who eventually turned on him to a degree. I thought Howland was a damn good coach but Miller/Arizona would be running laps around UCLA right now if he had stayed on. Alford, with the help of Grace, gladly accepted Adidas's help with the AAU programs. At the same time the Compton Magic cut off Arizona's access due to Gabe York's playing time and Adidas.

That's not quite what happened. Howland had the Pump n' Run program still, but they were about dried up. Howland lost because he drifted away from what made him successful. His misidentified why he lost in the those Final Fours and thought he lost because his teams couldn't shoot, so he went away from his defense and offensive sets. There was plenty of talent for Howland to go after, but instead of long, lean, and athletic defenders, he went after slow, shooters who couldn't execute his defense. I love Jordan Adams, but he wasn't a Howland player. Shabazz wasn't a defender. Brendan Lane was finesse. The Wear twins weren't athletic. Jerime Anderson was a drunk, Tyler Honeycutt was a bad fit, Norman Powell was actually the perfect player for what Howland needed, but didn't fit the new and improved Ben Howland, he needed the Pitt/early UCLA Howland.

Alieberman · Post by **Alieberman** » Wed Mar 14, 2018 5:13 pm

Less than a week ago I was drooling all over Welsh's play in the semi final game vs Arizona.

Yesterday he scored 2 points on 5 shots?

How does that happen?

How do you end your college career like that?

MrBug708 · Post by **MrBug708** » Wed Mar 14, 2018 5:16 pm

Listening to your coach tell you to drift outside

Bangkok Wildcat · Post by **Bangkok Wildcat** » Wed Mar 14, 2018 5:21 pm

MrBug708 wrote:Listening to your coach tell you to drift outside

So,what’s the latest Bug....is Alford in jeopardy? I certainly hope not...no offense intended.

MrBug708 · Post by **MrBug708** » Wed Mar 14, 2018 5:33 pm

BRO thinks no. Donor fatigue and a AD who doesn't want to make another hire. Must be nice to have that sort of job security

Bangkok Wildcat · Post by **Bangkok Wildcat** » Wed Mar 14, 2018 5:41 pm

MrBug708 wrote:BRO thinks no. Donor fatigue and a AD who doesn't want to make another hire. Must be nice to have that sort of job security

Whew, thanks for that piece of good news...for us at least.

UAEebs86 · Post by **UAEebs86** » Wed Mar 14, 2018 6:02 pm

Time to extend him

ASUHATER! · Post by **ASUHATER!** » Wed Mar 14, 2018 6:07 pm

on the Tucson afternoon sports show they spent some time talking about Alford/UCLA/Guerrero. Basically that Guerrero bought himself some goodwill and time with the Chip Kelly hire, even more so if Kelly produces in his first year or two. He doesn't want to risk his neck making another bad basketball hire, so as long as people have the shiny new Chip Kelly dangling in front of them and UCLA at least still finishes near the top of the conference and just goes to the tournament.. Alford is probably safe for another 2-3 years.

MrBug708 · Post by **MrBug708** » Wed Mar 14, 2018 6:13 pm

Alford has a year to do something noteworthy, otherwise the buyout is nothing. Anyone who has any say in ucla athletics knows DG did nothong to land Kelly, he didn't even want to fire Mora

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