Bribery Scandal - FBI Probe - Book Richardson Involved

EVCat · Post by **EVCat** » Thu Dec 20, 2018 9:54 am

CatFanOneMil wrote: So much bullshit and pessimism...

Here's the deal, someone show me some damn EVIDENCE that Gonzaga has ANY kind of cheating going on...ANY evidence...

This is my problem with the narrative, a lot of you guys are saying "EVERYONE DOES IT, THEY JUST DON'T GET CAUGHT" but that like saying:

"I almost saw Bigfoot, therefore I know he exists"

Can someone, ANYONE even offer one shred of evidence that Mark few is cheating?

Why is it considered uninspired to assume that Catholic coach at a Catholic University follows the damn rules and lives his life outside of the money train game?

I've heard Few say the reason he stays at Gonzaga is because he loves to fly-fish and leaving would mean he couldn't do that, why do we assume that is not the truth and reveals his basic motivation is NOT money?

Until someone shows me real proof outside of the current NCAA fiasco that has only implicated a HANDFUL of the 360 teams out there, I will not be joining your crazy tin-foil conspiracy club...you keep believing in Bigfoot and tell me when you actually get a real picture on your own damn phone.

That could be a narrative when he was doing more with less, finding gems, etc. But when top players have their hands out, or their handlers do, and you are also recruiting them...there is no point where they go "well, you are a good Catholic school and you like fly fishing, so I am dropping my demands." If they are getting mixed up with the players coming through the hardcore shoe circuit, or have been in the final 5 or 8 for players who are suspected, someone in their orbit is willing to pay. Someone wants to upgrade players. Not Mark Few. Not Gonzaga Slush Fund. But boosters. Handlers...it is unavoidable.

But, yes...everyone pays. Not the school. But if NAU is in a battle with Northern Colorado for a big-for-them player, and the local car dealer is NAU's biggest fan...he finds a way to get involved with getting the player if the player (or his handlers/parents) show interest. Erase car dealer, but the rest of that is fact. Not guessing. It happens anywhere there is a desire and means and an interested player. And it isn't bags of cash at the airport.

Few schools actually get involved directly. But every school has someone who really "supports" the program if support is needed. Those AAU coaches and handlers don't have to ask around a lot to find out who...

CatFanOneMil · Post by **CatFanOneMil** » Thu Dec 20, 2018 12:30 pm

EVCat wrote:
CatFanOneMil wrote: So much bullshit and pessimism...

Here's the deal, someone show me some damn EVIDENCE that Gonzaga has ANY kind of cheating going on...ANY evidence...

This is my problem with the narrative, a lot of you guys are saying "EVERYONE DOES IT, THEY JUST DON'T GET CAUGHT" but that like saying:

"I almost saw Bigfoot, therefore I know he exists"

Can someone, ANYONE even offer one shred of evidence that Mark few is cheating?

Why is it considered uninspired to assume that Catholic coach at a Catholic University follows the damn rules and lives his life outside of the money train game?

I've heard Few say the reason he stays at Gonzaga is because he loves to fly-fish and leaving would mean he couldn't do that, why do we assume that is not the truth and reveals his basic motivation is NOT money?

Until someone shows me real proof outside of the current NCAA fiasco that has only implicated a HANDFUL of the 360 teams out there, I will not be joining your crazy tin-foil conspiracy club...you keep believing in Bigfoot and tell me when you actually get a real picture on your own damn phone.
That could be a narrative when he was doing more with less, finding gems, etc. But when top players have their hands out, or their handlers do, and you are also recruiting them...there is no point where they go "well, you are a good Catholic school and you like fly fishing, so I am dropping my demands." If they are getting mixed up with the players coming through the hardcore shoe circuit, or have been in the final 5 or 8 for players who are suspected, someone in their orbit is willing to pay. Someone wants to upgrade players. Not Mark Few. Not Gonzaga Slush Fund. But boosters. Handlers...it is unavoidable.

But, yes...everyone pays. Not the school. But if NAU is in a battle with Northern Colorado for a big-for-them player, and the local car dealer is NAU's biggest fan...he finds a way to get involved with getting the player if the player (or his handlers/parents) show interest. Erase car dealer, but the rest of that is fact. Not guessing. It happens anywhere there is a desire and means and an interested player. And it isn't bags of cash at the airport.

Few schools actually get involved directly. But every school has someone who really "supports" the program if support is needed. Those AAU coaches and handlers don't have to ask around a lot to find out who...

See, again with the speculation, I went to school AND worked for NAU, and I know its a hypothetical, BUT there is no alma mater or local guy who is willing to support a school like NAU AND RISK his reputation in the community by breaking the rules there...not.gonna.happen.at.EVERY.school...this is an old narrative re-purposed for a conspiracy theory...I am interested in FACTS...

Here's the problem with this investigation and trying Miller and ALL the schools in the public square of opinion...we have abandoned FACTS and actual evidence for a speculation and theories...the actual number of guilty parties in this entire fiasco is maybe 4-5 and even that has yet to be established completely in a court of law...the NCAA is NOT going to impose sanctions based on the publics perception of presumed guilt or innocence...these things matter...you are dealing with STATE OWNED ENTITIES AND INSTITUTIONS...I dare you to try and impose sanctions on a state owned institution based on public opinion...it will tossed out of court faster than you can say lawsuit.

84Cat · Post by **84Cat** » Thu Dec 20, 2018 12:40 pm

EVCat · Post by **EVCat** » Fri Dec 21, 2018 8:20 am

CatFanOneMil wrote: See, again with the speculation, I went to school AND worked for NAU, and I know its a hypothetical, BUT there is no alma mater or local guy who is willing to support a school like NAU AND RISK his reputation in the community by breaking the rules there...not.gonna.happen.at.EVERY.school...this is an old narrative re-purposed for a conspiracy theory...I am interested in FACTS...

Here's the problem with this investigation and trying Miller and ALL the schools in the public square of opinion...we have abandoned FACTS and actual evidence for a speculation and theories...the actual number of guilty parties in this entire fiasco is maybe 4-5 and even that has yet to be established completely in a court of law...the NCAA is NOT going to impose sanctions based on the publics perception of presumed guilt or innocence...these things matter...you are dealing with STATE OWNED ENTITIES AND INSTITUTIONS...I dare you to try and impose sanctions on a state owned institution based on public opinion...it will tossed out of court faster than you can say lawsuit.

And I have family who were involved with "supporting" NAU Athletics.

If you want concrete evidence, you can always suggest you are right, because the world cannot prove you wrong.

But a little bit of context goes a long way. If your school has a need, you have a player with their hand out (not every player/handlers have hands out) and you have a booster that can provide something for that need, you have a situation where the desire to act is directly equal to the booster's desire to win.

I am pretty sure no one has said "put state schools on probation because we know they do it too". That's an illogical extension of this discussion. You say the actual number of guilty parties in this fiasco is 4 or 5, yet Yahoo released a list of around 30 schools, there were a few involved with this one little case that turned state's evidence, upping the actual bag men total over 4 or 5, and no one is saying this is a court of law that requires beyond a reasonable doubt. BUt one of the greatest myths of the legal system is that you can't convict based on circumstantial evidence. Not saying any of this meets legal burdens of proof, and quite frankly, the NCAA doesn't need that. All that is being said is this happens virtually anywhere there is a want and a need.

And, yes, at NAU. It doesn't have to be $100,000. It can be a job for mom and free food and drinks for the kid, a vague "we will take care of you". It can be taking the boys out for the night and gathering cash to pay the bill and the barkeep/owner charges $0 because said player is short on rent. It can be making sure said "taken care of" player brings a recruit by when he is on his visit to make sure he understands who is "friendly".

It doesn't have to be bank sacks of $100s and fancy cars..

84Cat · Post by **84Cat** » Wed Jan 02, 2019 4:17 pm

ChooChooCat · Post by **ChooChooCat** » Wed Jan 02, 2019 4:43 pm

Can somebody smarter than me explain why Bland would be on the hook for bribery since he works for a private university? Book, Evans, and Person all work for public universities so I get that, but Bland's inclusion in the charges of bribery always confused me.

PHXCATS · Post by **PHXCATS** » Wed Jan 02, 2019 4:48 pm

ChooChooCat wrote:Can somebody smarter than me explain why Bland would be on the hook for bribery since he works for a private university? Book, Evans, and Person all work for public universities so I get that, but Bland's inclusion in the charges of bribery always confused me.

I believe it is the NCAA umbrella

Newportcat · Post by **Newportcat** » Wed Jan 02, 2019 6:00 pm

84Cat wrote:

I just read this article and it again made me realize how fucking stupid beyond belief this entire fiasco has been. Now its bad they took money to direct players to agents but come on, $4K of cash and Dawkins pocketed the other $9K that was supposed to go to Bland. So basically Bland took $4K to play around in Vegas with without any promises anything would come from it.

This entire thing is a fucking farce. Doesn't the FBI have better things to do.

Maybe I am misreading all of this and am completely wrong just seems so stupid.

Who is the victim in all of this?

prh · Post by **prh** » Wed Jan 02, 2019 7:13 pm

Newportcat wrote:
84Cat wrote:
I just read this article and it again made me realize how fucking stupid beyond belief this entire fiasco has been. Now its bad they took money to direct players to agents but come on, $4K of cash and Dawkins pocketed the other $9K that was supposed to go to Bland. So basically Bland took $4K to play around in Vegas with without any promises anything would come from it.

This entire thing is a fucking farce. Doesn't the FBI have better things to do.

Maybe I am misreading all of this and am completely wrong just seems so stupid.

Who is the victim in all of this?

Ultimately the feds who are paying for kids to go to schools, when those kids are already paid by Adidas(/Nike/UA).

Just like how the government doesn't want to subsidize grad student researcher tuition, when that tuition is already paid for by the research sponsor (part of the tax reform bill).

ChooChooCat · Post by **ChooChooCat** » Wed Jan 02, 2019 8:52 pm

Newportcat wrote:
84Cat wrote:
I just read this article and it again made me realize how fucking stupid beyond belief this entire fiasco has been. Now its bad they took money to direct players to agents but come on, $4K of cash and Dawkins pocketed the other $9K that was supposed to go to Bland. So basically Bland took $4K to play around in Vegas with without any promises anything would come from it.

This entire thing is a fucking farce. Doesn't the FBI have better things to do.

Maybe I am misreading all of this and am completely wrong just seems so stupid.

Who is the victim in all of this?

So far the only victims are Brian Bowen, Jahvon Quinerly, and Nassir Little. Bowen for being screwed out of a college career and education altogether and Quinerly and Little out of going to the school that they each wanted to go to.

ByJoveByJingle · Post by **ByJoveByJingle** » Wed Jan 02, 2019 8:55 pm

And Sean Miller and Arizona.

Chicat · Post by **Chicat** » Wed Jan 02, 2019 8:59 pm

ByJoveByJingle wrote:And Sean Miller and Arizona.

And me.

Newportcat · Post by **Newportcat** » Thu Jan 03, 2019 8:08 am

prh wrote:
Newportcat wrote:
84Cat wrote:
I just read this article and it again made me realize how fucking stupid beyond belief this entire fiasco has been. Now its bad they took money to direct players to agents but come on, $4K of cash and Dawkins pocketed the other $9K that was supposed to go to Bland. So basically Bland took $4K to play around in Vegas with without any promises anything would come from it.

This entire thing is a fucking farce. Doesn't the FBI have better things to do.

Maybe I am misreading all of this and am completely wrong just seems so stupid.

Who is the victim in all of this?
Ultimately the feds who are paying for kids to go to schools, when those kids are already paid by Adidas(/Nike/UA).

Just like how the government doesn't want to subsidize grad student researcher tuition, when that tuition is already paid for by the research sponsor (part of the tax reform bill).

Yeah but to my knowledge no funding to the University of Arizona comes through the Feds, its through the state of Arizona...which has been severely cutting back on that funding so tuition has gone way up.

Newportcat · Post by **Newportcat** » Thu Jan 03, 2019 8:13 am

the other BS thing is the prosectors smiling and high fiving each other after screwing over a guy who took $4K. Like they won some big trial

If Bland served any jail time over this, it would be the biggest crock of shit ever

Now I do agree it is shady to take money from an agent saying you are going to push kids there way. That is wrong and breaks the trust factor. But my god, Tony Bland took $4k. He could have said sure I will do that no problem...oh wait the kid signed elsewhere, thanks for the cash, gambled it away in 20 min since he was in Vegas and that would have been it.

And Fuck Christian Dawkins. He pocketed $9K himself that was supposed to go to Tony Bland.

Again, if I am reading this all wrong let me know as I know I am being a bit bold in my opinions here but seems like the biggest bunch of bullshit ever

And some people here want to Self Sanction over this shit too

ByJoveByJingle · Post by **ByJoveByJingle** » Thu Jan 03, 2019 10:06 am

Yeah, the numbers are ridiculous. Lute probably spent more on Pizza for his campers.

prh · Post by **prh** » Thu Jan 03, 2019 10:44 am

Newportcat wrote:
prh wrote:
Newportcat wrote:
84Cat wrote:
I just read this article and it again made me realize how fucking stupid beyond belief this entire fiasco has been. Now its bad they took money to direct players to agents but come on, $4K of cash and Dawkins pocketed the other $9K that was supposed to go to Bland. So basically Bland took $4K to play around in Vegas with without any promises anything would come from it.

This entire thing is a fucking farce. Doesn't the FBI have better things to do.

Maybe I am misreading all of this and am completely wrong just seems so stupid.

Who is the victim in all of this?
Ultimately the feds who are paying for kids to go to schools, when those kids are already paid by Adidas(/Nike/UA).

Just like how the government doesn't want to subsidize grad student researcher tuition, when that tuition is already paid for by the research sponsor (part of the tax reform bill).
Yeah but to my knowledge no funding to the University of Arizona comes through the Feds, its through the state of Arizona...which has been severely cutting back on that funding so tuition has gone way up.

I don't think the feds necessarily care about about any individual school. Added up across the country, it's going to be massive. The schools and people involved just happen to be the easiest for evidence and trial, with the feds hoping to put a big hurt into the shoe companies. Imagine if the shoes companies had to pay back any federal funding of any player ever found to have taken money? This doesn't even get into the IRS interests around funding of grassroots basketball.

I'm just saying I think the feds are the "victims" in the end, and they're looking for a big score across the industry, not any individual school/person/etc.

UAEebs86 · Post by **UAEebs86** » Thu Jan 03, 2019 5:41 pm

Book looking for a plea agreement?:

https://www.azcentral.com/story/news/lo ... 476138002/

PHXCATS · Post by **PHXCATS** » Mon Jan 07, 2019 3:36 pm

Plea deal reached with Book

https://sports.yahoo.com/emanuel-book-r ... 03033.html" target="_blank

Spaceman Spiff · Post by **Spaceman Spiff** » Mon Jan 07, 2019 4:05 pm

PHXCATS wrote:Plea deal reached with Book

https://sports.yahoo.com/emanuel-book-r ... 03033.html" target="_blank

It would be more interesting if the actual plea agreement was posted. There is frequently a statement of the offense that would be more informative about the future.

Edit...and it looks like due to the shutdown, we won't get it. The SDNY press releases are shut down due to the big shutdown.

PHXCATS · Post by **PHXCATS** » Mon Jan 07, 2019 4:18 pm

Spaceman Spiff wrote:
PHXCATS wrote:Plea deal reached with Book

https://sports.yahoo.com/emanuel-book-r ... 03033.html" target="_blank
It would be more interesting if the actual plea agreement was posted. There is frequently a statement of the offense that would be more informative about the future.

Edit...and it looks like due to the shutdown, we won't get it. The SDNY press releases are shut down due to the big shutdown.

Everything I have read and researched on this today and prior to today, this plea deal only means two things for sure.
1) Book will not go to trial
2) Book will be punished because there is proof Book took money to try to get players already at U of A to go to a specific agency post playing days at U of A

Those are the only two things. This DOES NOT mean Book will talk to the FBI or cooperate or do anything at all to help the FBI. Book could do those things but this does not mean he will. Additionally if Book does give up dirt, the FBI will only ask about things that violate laws not NCAA rules, and Book will most likely never coach again. While Book wont be coach anytime soon he will likely coach again in a few years if he keeps his mouth shut.

Spaceman Spiff · Post by **Spaceman Spiff** » Mon Jan 07, 2019 4:26 pm

PHXCATS wrote:
Spaceman Spiff wrote:
PHXCATS wrote:Plea deal reached with Book

https://sports.yahoo.com/emanuel-book-r ... 03033.html" target="_blank
It would be more interesting if the actual plea agreement was posted. There is frequently a statement of the offense that would be more informative about the future.

Edit...and it looks like due to the shutdown, we won't get it. The SDNY press releases are shut down due to the big shutdown.
Everything I have read and researched on this today and prior to today, this plea deal only means two things for sure.
1) Book will not go to trial
2) Book will be punished because there is proof Book took money to try to get players already at U of A to go to a specific agency post playing days at U of A

Those are the only two things. This DOES NOT mean Book will talk to the FBI or cooperate or do anything at all to help the FBI. Book could do those things but this does not mean he will. Additionally if Book does give up dirt, the FBI will only ask about things that violate laws not NCAA rules, and Book will most likely never coach again. While Book wont be coach anytime soon he will likely coach again in a few years if he keeps his mouth shut.

#1 is correct. #2 is not necessarily correct.

PHXCATS · Post by **PHXCATS** » Mon Jan 07, 2019 4:43 pm

Spaceman Spiff wrote:
PHXCATS wrote:
Spaceman Spiff wrote:
PHXCATS wrote:Plea deal reached with Book

https://sports.yahoo.com/emanuel-book-r ... 03033.html" target="_blank
It would be more interesting if the actual plea agreement was posted. There is frequently a statement of the offense that would be more informative about the future.

Edit...and it looks like due to the shutdown, we won't get it. The SDNY press releases are shut down due to the big shutdown.
Everything I have read and researched on this today and prior to today, this plea deal only means two things for sure.
1) Book will not go to trial
2) Book will be punished because there is proof Book took money to try to get players already at U of A to go to a specific agency post playing days at U of A

Those are the only two things. This DOES NOT mean Book will talk to the FBI or cooperate or do anything at all to help the FBI. Book could do those things but this does not mean he will. Additionally if Book does give up dirt, the FBI will only ask about things that violate laws not NCAA rules, and Book will most likely never coach again. While Book wont be coach anytime soon he will likely coach again in a few years if he keeps his mouth shut.
#1 is correct. #2 is not necessarily correct.

He isnt going to get off free. He may go to jail. What he plead to is a 18-24 month sentence usually. He could get less and likely will. Could get probation like the USC coach. But he will be punished in some way

ChooChooCat · Post by **ChooChooCat** » Mon Jan 07, 2019 4:45 pm

Book and Bland both did not cooperate.

Spaceman Spiff · Post by **Spaceman Spiff** » Mon Jan 07, 2019 5:00 pm

PHXCATS wrote:
Spaceman Spiff wrote:
PHXCATS wrote:
Spaceman Spiff wrote:
PHXCATS wrote:Plea deal reached with Book

https://sports.yahoo.com/emanuel-book-r ... 03033.html" target="_blank
It would be more interesting if the actual plea agreement was posted. There is frequently a statement of the offense that would be more informative about the future.

Edit...and it looks like due to the shutdown, we won't get it. The SDNY press releases are shut down due to the big shutdown.
Everything I have read and researched on this today and prior to today, this plea deal only means two things for sure.
1) Book will not go to trial
2) Book will be punished because there is proof Book took money to try to get players already at U of A to go to a specific agency post playing days at U of A

Those are the only two things. This DOES NOT mean Book will talk to the FBI or cooperate or do anything at all to help the FBI. Book could do those things but this does not mean he will. Additionally if Book does give up dirt, the FBI will only ask about things that violate laws not NCAA rules, and Book will most likely never coach again. While Book wont be coach anytime soon he will likely coach again in a few years if he keeps his mouth shut.
#1 is correct. #2 is not necessarily correct.
He isnt going to get off free. He may go to jail. What he plead to is a 18-24 month sentence usually. He could get less and likely will. Could get probation like the USC coach. But he will be punished in some way

Everything after "there is proof" is something that's not necessarily true. Yes, he'll be punished.

TheGreatCatsby · Post by **TheGreatCatsby** » Mon Jan 07, 2019 5:04 pm

A plea deal is a big step in moving past the whole thing vs. a trial airing all the dirty laundry. A big step for Miller and next year's class. SO many programs involved, sanctions if any likely a ways off. Still no word on what supposedly Miller said on any FBI tapes about Ayton, except what Schlabach knows.

PHXCATS · Post by **PHXCATS** » Mon Jan 07, 2019 5:05 pm

Well the FBI saw Book take the money for it. That is probably why Book too the plea deal

zonagrad · Post by **zonagrad** » Mon Jan 07, 2019 5:13 pm

TheGreatCatsby wrote:A plea deal is a big step in moving past the whole thing vs. a trial airing all the dirty laundry. A big step for Miller and next year's class. SO many programs involved, sanctions if any likely a ways off. Still no word on what supposedly Miller said on any FBI tapes about Ayton, except what Schlabach knows.

What Schlabach allegedly knows.

Schlabach was given a narrative from either a defendant or a defense lawyer. None of it has been corroborated by anyone. And it's been sternly rebuked by the D'Andre Ayton and Sean Miller. And if those tapes exist, why did Miller and the UA fight back so strongly? Miller (and the UA) would look awfully foolish denying something knowing full well there were FBI recordings.

Judging by the info we know so far, who are you more inclined to believe? Someone who knows exactly what he said during a phone conversation or a defense lawyer whose client is facing multiple charges and will say anything to cast doubt and confusion on a case?

Spaceman Spiff · Post by **Spaceman Spiff** » Mon Jan 07, 2019 5:21 pm

TheGreatCatsby wrote:A plea deal is a big step in moving past the whole thing vs. a trial airing all the dirty laundry. A big step for Miller and next year's class. SO many programs involved, sanctions if any likely a ways off. Still no word on what supposedly Miller said on any FBI tapes about Ayton, except what Schlabach knows.

Well, Schlabach knows nothing, so that's a positive sign.

azcat49 · Post by **azcat49** » Mon Jan 07, 2019 5:30 pm

So this thing will end with no one ever hearing Miller on tape? At some point ESPIN has to say something right?

Chicat · Post by **Chicat** » Mon Jan 07, 2019 5:51 pm

azcat49 wrote:So this thing will end with no one ever hearing Miller on tape? At some point ESPIN has to say something right?

They won't. And if they do, it will be to spin it like CSM got away with the crime of the century.

TheGreatCatsby · Post by **TheGreatCatsby** » Mon Jan 07, 2019 6:53 pm

I forgot the quotes, what Schlabach "knows". Can't believe we've heard the last of it, as right after the trial, after all was testified to with all the programs and coaches implicated, he was back on Miller's sack with a new story. Still wonder why none of that supposed Ayton-Miller conversation came up in the main trial, as the little shenanigans involving those same individuals came to light during trial. Evidence like that would have been good for the govt's case. And right after that original story aired, at that court conference hearing gov't lawyer said a lot of misinformation about what's on the tapes, implicating like somebody was being defamed. Wonder if all Schlabach had was a "source" that knew a family friend of Ayton's took some shoe money years ago to funnel back in influencing DeAndre, which somehow got twisted into Sean Miller directly offering money for Ayton to play at AZ? Very sad if Schlabach bought that hook line and sinker and ESPN ran (and continues to run) with it.

ChooChooCat · Post by **ChooChooCat** » Mon Jan 07, 2019 9:40 pm

Schlabach has a defense lawyer for a source who played him and he fell for it.

MC1983 · Post by **MC1983** » Mon Jan 07, 2019 11:18 pm

I’m sure this has been asked before but, what NCAA violation has been broken if Book never gave any of the 20,000 to a player?

Merkin · Post by **Merkin** » Tue Jan 08, 2019 7:05 am

MC1983 wrote:I’m sure this has been asked before but, what NCAA violation has been broken if Book never gave any of the 20,000 to a player?

Lack of institutional control

HiCat · Post by **HiCat** » Tue Jan 08, 2019 7:41 am

ChooChooCat wrote:Schlabach has a defense lawyer for a source who played him and he fell for it.

PHXCATS · Post by **PHXCATS** » Tue Jan 08, 2019 8:01 am

Merkin wrote:
MC1983 wrote:I’m sure this has been asked before but, what NCAA violation has been broken if Book never gave any of the 20,000 to a player?

Lack of institutional control

Would that apply here though? No NCAA violation occurred per the FBI documents. Miller wouldn't get in trouble in Book got a DUI or did false tax returns or robbed a bank

Newportcat · Post by **Newportcat** » Tue Jan 08, 2019 8:11 am

Merkin wrote:
MC1983 wrote:I’m sure this has been asked before but, what NCAA violation has been broken if Book never gave any of the 20,000 to a player?

Lack of institutional control

Is it really though?

I mean NCAA didn’t sanction our track program after our coach did all that awful stuff which caused him to go to jail.

EVCat · Post by **EVCat** » Tue Jan 08, 2019 8:50 am

Newportcat wrote:
Merkin wrote:
MC1983 wrote:I’m sure this has been asked before but, what NCAA violation has been broken if Book never gave any of the 20,000 to a player?

Lack of institutional control
Is it really though?

I mean NCAA didn’t sanction our track program after our coach did all that awful stuff which caused him to go to jail.

That's my understanding. His actions did not taint the program and the "amateur" status of its players. It was a crime. But no different than if he had robbed a Circle K...those were his demons.

If the money had gone to a player we recruited or who played for us, now it is a matter of institutional control even if Miller did not know. Because he needs to control his program. But he cannot stop people from committing crimes that fall outside the duties he is to oversee. Nothing illegal about steering a player, post-eligibility, to an agency. If he hooked a player up with an agent and that agent paid the still-eligible player, that would be a problem.

But, right now, if there is no evidence of a direct link between Book's activities and the recruitment of a player or inducement of a player on behalf of Arizona? There is no NCAA violation.

Longhorned · Post by **Longhorned** » Tue Jan 08, 2019 10:04 am

EVCat wrote:
Newportcat wrote:
Merkin wrote:
MC1983 wrote:I’m sure this has been asked before but, what NCAA violation has been broken if Book never gave any of the 20,000 to a player?

Lack of institutional control
Is it really though?

I mean NCAA didn’t sanction our track program after our coach did all that awful stuff which caused him to go to jail.
That's my understanding. His actions did not taint the program and the "amateur" status of its players. It was a crime. But no different than if he had robbed a Circle K...those were his demons.

If the money had gone to a player we recruited or who played for us, now it is a matter of institutional control even if Miller did not know. Because he needs to control his program. But he cannot stop people from committing crimes that fall outside the duties he is to oversee. Nothing illegal about steering a player, post-eligibility, to an agency. If he hooked a player up with an agent and that agent paid the still-eligible player, that would be a problem.

But, right now, if there is no evidence of a direct link between Book's activities and the recruitment of a player or inducement of a player on behalf of Arizona? There is no NCAA violation.

This is correct. It's why the NCAA couldn't punish UNC for fake classes for athletes; technically, athletes were only among those for whom the fake classes were open for enrollment (it's a legal technicality even if it doesn't reflect the reality of the situation). "Lack of institutional control" doesn't necessarily apply even when athletes unfairly benefit from that lack of control. In Arizona's case, the university has no reason to believe any players benefited from Book's actions.

Newportcat · Post by **Newportcat** » Tue Jan 08, 2019 12:49 pm

Longhorned wrote:
EVCat wrote:
Newportcat wrote:
Merkin wrote:
MC1983 wrote:I’m sure this has been asked before but, what NCAA violation has been broken if Book never gave any of the 20,000 to a player?

Lack of institutional control
Is it really though?

I mean NCAA didn’t sanction our track program after our coach did all that awful stuff which caused him to go to jail.
That's my understanding. His actions did not taint the program and the "amateur" status of its players. It was a crime. But no different than if he had robbed a Circle K...those were his demons.

If the money had gone to a player we recruited or who played for us, now it is a matter of institutional control even if Miller did not know. Because he needs to control his program. But he cannot stop people from committing crimes that fall outside the duties he is to oversee. Nothing illegal about steering a player, post-eligibility, to an agency. If he hooked a player up with an agent and that agent paid the still-eligible player, that would be a problem.

But, right now, if there is no evidence of a direct link between Book's activities and the recruitment of a player or inducement of a player on behalf of Arizona? There is no NCAA violation.
This is correct. It's why the NCAA couldn't punish UNC for fake classes for athletes; technically, athletes were only among those for whom the fake classes were open for enrollment (it's a legal technicality even if it doesn't reflect the reality of the situation). "Lack of institutional control" doesn't necessarily apply even when athletes unfairly benefit from that lack of control. In Arizona's case, the university has no reason to believe any players benefited from Book's actions.

Got it, so as long as there is no proof Book either paid a recruit or a player currently on the team, really no way NCAA can come down on us right?

And given Book copped the Plea deal, none of that will ever come out correct?

EVCat · Post by **EVCat** » Tue Jan 08, 2019 1:15 pm

Newportcat wrote:
Got it, so as long as there is no proof Book either paid a recruit or a player currently on the team, really no way NCAA can come down on us right?

And given Book copped the Plea deal, none of that will ever come out correct?

I don't think he rolled at all. He will just have to allocute to what is known.

Spaceman Spiff · Post by **Spaceman Spiff** » Tue Jan 08, 2019 2:26 pm

EVCat wrote:
Newportcat wrote:
Got it, so as long as there is no proof Book either paid a recruit or a player currently on the team, really no way NCAA can come down on us right?

And given Book copped the Plea deal, none of that will ever come out correct?
I don't think he rolled at all. He will just have to allocute to what is known.

Book could potentially testify at the April trial. If we knew the statement of offense in his plea, that would cover anything else.

Unknown at this point if he would testify in April.

Spaceman Spiff · Post by **Spaceman Spiff** » Tue Jan 08, 2019 2:31 pm

If you want to get a sense of what Book likely pled to, here's a press release on Bland. If Book pled to the same thing, it's taking money with the intent to influence players to join Dawkins's agency.

https://www.justice.gov/usao-sdny/pr/an ... an-federal" target="_blank

EVCat · Post by **EVCat** » Tue Jan 08, 2019 2:52 pm

I guess it comes down to whether they reached a plea without his cooperation against us as Choo indicates because there was no need to try to keep breaking him for his testimony, threatening him with the 60 years or whatever and they just wanted the win, or if he plead with sentencing consideration in return for specific testimony that includes violations by us.

If the specifics of his testimony are expected to stick to his particular infraction and how it was executed, and there are no damning details related to Arizona as part of his statement of offense and/or plea allocution, I'd be surprised if there was a shocker on the witness stand.

Anyone have a copy of his Statement of Offense? (edit to add this is a joke)

Spaceman Spiff · Post by **Spaceman Spiff** » Tue Jan 08, 2019 3:36 pm

EVCat wrote:I guess it comes down to whether they reached a plea without his cooperation against us as Choo indicates because there was no need to try to keep breaking him for his testimony, threatening him with the 60 years or whatever and they just wanted the win, or if he plead with sentencing consideration in return for specific testimony that includes violations by us.

If the specifics of his testimony are expected to stick to his particular infraction and how it was executed, and there are no damning details related to Arizona as part of his statement of offense and/or plea allocution, I'd be surprised if there was a shocker on the witness stand.

Anyone have a copy of his Statement of Offense? (edit to add this is a joke)

I'd be stunned if the intent was ever to have him provide info on Arizona or Miller. Dawkins, Code and the money people...well, that's different. Even pleading to conspiring with them in a bribery scheme is pretty meaningful.

Looking deeper in to Arizona or Miller is a NCAA/fan priority, but I'd be surprised if it was a FBI priority.

midnightx · Post by **midnightx** » Tue Jan 08, 2019 4:18 pm

It will be interesting to see what the NCAA does with USC and Arizona because it is unclear if they can really target programs with lack of institutional control if a few rogue assistants were working with agents to potentially steer players to the agents after their college careers were over (and presuming the players never received money).

Now, Louisville is in a different mess because Pitino allegedly had knowledge that money was being funneled to a player's family so that the player would end up in his program (Self was exposed during the first trial for allegedly doing the same thing).

Will the NCAA really go after Kansas? Maybe a slap on the wrist?

EastCoastCat · Post by **EastCoastCat** » Tue Jan 08, 2019 6:09 pm

If the NCAA goes after us and not Kansas I think it will require a really stupid gesture on our part...

U.P. Zona Fan · Post by **U.P. Zona Fan** » Tue Jan 08, 2019 8:07 pm

I'll have a gesture for them if they do.

Irish27 · Post by **Irish27** » Tue Jan 08, 2019 9:20 pm

dmjcat · Post by **dmjcat** » Tue Jan 08, 2019 10:09 pm

We still do not have any clarity on whether the UA will face NCAA sanctions. There continues to be a great deal of rationalizing on this board concerning the fix we are in. This is the original complaint:

https://www.justice.gov/usao-sdny/press ... 6/download" target="_blank

Lets review the original FBI charges:

Count 10 spells out the charges:

..EVANS, RICHARDSON, BLAND, DAWKINS, and SOOD, and others known and unknown, participated in a scheme to defraud University-2, University-3, University-4, and University-5 by facilitating and concealing bribe payments to prospective and current student-athletes at those universities, and/or their families, including by telephone, email, and wire transfers of funds, among other means, thereby causing University-2, University-3, University-4, and University-5 to provide athletic scholarships to student athletes who, in truth and in fact, were ineligible to compete as a result of the bribe payments.

page 46 spells out Dawkins/Book discussing paying an existing player:

"DAWKINS made reference to one basketball player at [Arizona] who already had recieved payments "so we got no expenses there," and told RICHARDSON that "you use that money that you get from him to help you recruit, do whatever or fucking just go on vacation with it."

If these charges are true (I'm assuming the FBI didn't lie) then the NCAA has all the ammo they need to hang the UA's butt from a flagpole.

At this point we don't know if Book pleaded guilty to Count 10. If he does I don't see how we can avoid serious sanctions/penalties.
Even if he doesn't plead guilty the NCAA can still use this public information to after the UA.
Another potential problem is that the FBI could eventually hand over all of its evidence to the NCAA.......we don't know if they will at this point.

Best case scenario for the UA:
1) Book doesn't plead guilty to Count 10
2) The FBI refuses to share any information with the NCAA (very possible)
3) The NCAA decides it has to have additional information in addition to the public FBI charges in order to punish the UA......and can't dig it up.

Bottom line we are a long ways off from getting out from under the FBI cloud.

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