Sean Miller

[Spaceman Spiff]

I don't give Miller a pass. I hope Miller doesn't give Miller a pass. It generally takes a long time for coaches to break through, Miller is young, and a lot of fans don't want Arizona and Miller to be separate from one another when he breaks through. But this is Arizona, and breaking through to the Final Four needs to happen, and time is running out. If next year's team can't break a zone, and a lesser team runs circles around them in the shallow rounds of the tourney, then the pattern of limitations will have become unsustainable.

I could not disagree more that time is running out.

Everyone thought this team would be weak. Local media mentioned 0-18 in Pac. Now we're mad because we aren't dominant?

Pulling a top 5 class out of the FBI debacle is a borderline miracle. A replacement for Miller isn't doing that.

We sort of deserve to be UCLA if we ignore the good Miller does. Look at that program and how often they hire blah coaches, and we assume we'll automatically do better.

Coaches are not perfect, but every potential Milller replacement is..until he's here. Then, we'll have our very own Steve Alford. Alford is such a great comparison point for Miller. For people who think Miller has coaching limitations, Alford/Miller recruited pretty similar. Who got more results?

Yeah, this year's team has no bearing on Miller's trajectory. I have no disagreement on that. What I'm saying is that time is running out when it comes to a true deep tourney run. Hell, time is running out, period. How long can any head coach be expected to stay with a single program nowadays? And Arizona fans share something in common with college basketball fans more generally (not including me): A disproportionate emphasis on Final Fours and national titles. It's central to college basketball, regardless of any arguments for the greater importance of consistent winning and success in all the other parts of the equation.

I get all fired up about the argument that lack of Final Fours shows some limitation in Miller too, though.

Jamelle Horne missed by 4 inches or we're not having a conversation about limitations. Was it Miller's limitations that caused the shot to go long?

Wisky had the best offensive half in tournament history in 14-15. Does that show a limitation in Miller?

We had a shot to move on to the FF in 13-14 despite a lights out game from Kaminsky. Or if the refs don't call a charge, Rondae tips it in and we move on. Are those limitations?

Any of those 3 things break differently and there's no limitations talk. I get that may not matter to the fan psyche, but it does. Miller's limitations are almost entirely dependent on some things in those games going wrong.

Hell, if Ashley doesn't break his foot, I genuinely believe we are speaking about a coach with an undefeated season and national title under his belt. And we are not talking about his limitations.

[Longhorned]

I don't give Miller a pass. I hope Miller doesn't give Miller a pass. It generally takes a long time for coaches to break through, Miller is young, and a lot of fans don't want Arizona and Miller to be separate from one another when he breaks through. But this is Arizona, and breaking through to the Final Four needs to happen, and time is running out. If next year's team can't break a zone, and a lesser team runs circles around them in the shallow rounds of the tourney, then the pattern of limitations will have become unsustainable.

I could not disagree more that time is running out.

Everyone thought this team would be weak. Local media mentioned 0-18 in Pac. Now we're mad because we aren't dominant?

Pulling a top 5 class out of the FBI debacle is a borderline miracle. A replacement for Miller isn't doing that.

We sort of deserve to be UCLA if we ignore the good Miller does. Look at that program and how often they hire blah coaches, and we assume we'll automatically do better.

Coaches are not perfect, but every potential Milller replacement is..until he's here. Then, we'll have our very own Steve Alford. Alford is such a great comparison point for Miller. For people who think Miller has coaching limitations, Alford/Miller recruited pretty similar. Who got more results?

Yeah, this year's team has no bearing on Miller's trajectory. I have no disagreement on that. What I'm saying is that time is running out when it comes to a true deep tourney run. Hell, time is running out, period. How long can any head coach be expected to stay with a single program nowadays? And Arizona fans share something in common with college basketball fans more generally (not including me): A disproportionate emphasis on Final Fours and national titles. It's central to college basketball, regardless of any arguments for the greater importance of consistent winning and success in all the other parts of the equation.

I get all fired up about the argument that lack of Final Fours shows some limitation in Miller too, though.

Jamelle Horne missed by 4 inches or we're not having a conversation about limitations. Was it Miller's limitations that caused the shot to go long?

Wisky had the best offensive half in tournament history in 14-15. Does that show a limitation in Miller?

We had a shot to move on to the FF in 13-14 despite a lights out game from Kaminsky. Or if the refs don't call a charge, Rondae tips it in and we move on. Are those limitations?

Any of those 3 things break differently and there's no limitations talk. I get that may not matter to the fan psyche, but it does. Miller's limitations are almost entirely dependent on some things in those games going wrong.

Hell, if Ashley doesn't break his foot, I genuinely believe we are speaking about a coach with an undefeated season and national title under his belt. And we are not talking about his limitations.

So do I. And as somebody who follows the entirety of the season, I feel like I see the one-and-out nature of the tourney for what it is. But even Miller himself would give his right arm (his words) for a Final Four. And he will be break through. I hope it's with Arizona.

[Spaceman Spiff]

Oh, I've already told my wife I plan on running around our housing development shirtless and screaming incoherently if/when we make a Final Four.

I certainly want it to be soon so I'm still young enough to make decent time and get back inside before she can finish the divorce papers, then try to talk her out of it.

[zonagrad]

Here we go again with the stupid calls that Miller is not a good coach. Every time we have a bad performance, the idiots come out of the woodwork.Please. Enough. If that's your take, do us all a favor: write your bullshit argument down in long hand cursive writing using a quill pen. Then mail it to yourself. And when it arrives, open it up and burn it and save us all the trouble of reading your shitty argument.

Arizona is having a shitty year. Yes, by Arizona standards, this is a low water mark. And it shouldn't be surprising considering Arizona just had the services briefly of Lauri Markannen and D'Andre Ayton, both of whom could very well end up in Springfield, MA for a Hall of Fame induction in about 20 years.

Take a look at the incoming recruiting class. Go watch the video of the players. They're all really fvcking good. Only Chase Jeter has a chance to be a return starter next season. Randolph, Lee, Williams, etc... are all going to either transfer out or be fighting to get minutes next year. That's how good the incoming class is.

If you can't see the disaster wrought upon the program by Book Richardson and subsequently ESPN, and how Miller has saved himself and the program from being a shipwreck needing years of reclamation, then I can't help you. Throughout the FBI/ESPN storm last season, Miller still managed to guide Arizona Wildcat basketball to the outright Pac 12 regular season title AND the Pac 12 Tournament title. This, despite having a major TV network, THE SPORTS TV NETWORK, calling for his dismissal. This, despite the hometown paper calling for his dismissal.

And now, Miller and the University of Arizona is positioning itself for the last laugh. This season was always going to be a step back. So far, judging by the talent on the floor, Miller has done a great job.

If you are serious about getting rid of Sean Miller, right now or after this season, do you have any idea what you're asking for? You'll kill Arizona basketball for maybe a decade. That's not some shitty Andy Katz position. That's the truth. You won't be able to attract any experienced coach with any sort of reputation as a recruiter or teacher. Arizona will become a toxic environment. So the next coach will get a short stint. Maybe a Ben Lindsey type stay. And you're better off putting the family savings on the roulette wheel at Casino del Sol than hitting another grand slam hire like Lute Olson after you fire the coach that replaces Miller.

This season is frustrating and maddening. It's like this because expectations are SO HIGH. And Miller is to blame for those expectations because he's won the conference 5 times in 10 years. Take a look at the box scores of the NBA games from this week. You'll see some familiar names. Trier. Hollis-Jefferson. McConnell. Ayton. Markannen. Gordon. Hill. Better yet. Check their salaries:

Rondae: $2.5 million
McConnell: $1.6 million
Ayton: $8.2 million
Gordon: $21.6 million
Hill: $12 million
Johnson: $3.9 million
Markannen: $4.5 million
Trier: $3.4 million.

Throw in Kadeem Allen and Rawle Alkins, who are currently on NBA rosters as well. Those are Sean Miller guys. Recruited and coached by Sean Miller. Not leftovers from the Lute era.

Do you think for one fucking minute any of these guys would endorse the shitty opinion that Sean Miller needs to go? That Sean Miller can't coach? That Sean Miller just isn't good enough for Arizona basketball?

Get. The. Fuck. Out. Of. Here!

[EVCat]

I get all fired up about the argument that lack of Final Fours shows some limitation in Miller too, though.

Jamelle Horne missed by 4 inches or we're not having a conversation about limitations. Was it Miller's limitations that caused the shot to go long?

Wisky had the best offensive half in tournament history in 14-15. Does that show a limitation in Miller?

We had a shot to move on to the FF in 13-14 despite a lights out game from Kaminsky. Or if the refs don't call a charge, Rondae tips it in and we move on. Are those limitations?

Any of those 3 things break differently and there's no limitations talk. I get that may not matter to the fan psyche, but it does. Miller's limitations are almost entirely dependent on some things in those games going wrong.

Hell, if Ashley doesn't break his foot, I genuinely believe we are speaking about a coach with an undefeated season and national title under his belt. And we are not talking about his limitations.

It's like you crawled into my brain.

All of this.

[zonagrad]

I get all fired up about the argument that lack of Final Fours shows some limitation in Miller too, though.

Jamelle Horne missed by 4 inches or we're not having a conversation about limitations. Was it Miller's limitations that caused the shot to go long?

Wisky had the best offensive half in tournament history in 14-15. Does that show a limitation in Miller?

We had a shot to move on to the FF in 13-14 despite a lights out game from Kaminsky. Or if the refs don't call a charge, Rondae tips it in and we move on. Are those limitations?

Any of those 3 things break differently and there's no limitations talk. I get that may not matter to the fan psyche, but it does. Miller's limitations are almost entirely dependent on some things in those games going wrong.

Hell, if Ashley doesn't break his foot, I genuinely believe we are speaking about a coach with an undefeated season and national title under his belt. And we are not talking about his limitations.

It's like you crawled into my brain.

All of this.

Ditto.

[EVCat]

What's sad is we may never have a team again as good as that 2014 team was one second before Ashley went down.

And that isn't saying we won't have good teams, or even great teams again. But that team was special. Thin, but special.

And if Grant Jerrett stays...well, he didn't, so who cares?

But that team was absolutely ripping the heart out of opponents all year. I used to say it was like their will to continue just died. It was just too much energy to guard us and score on us. Some teams tapped out early. Others, like Michigan, just broke in half right there in the end game.

But when we had to start putting AG at the 4 all the time and bring RHJ in from his 6th man role, all those matchup issues we were able to create went away and we had one real lineup...

Offensive foul....

[PieceOfMeat]

I love UofA basketball fans.

They're like that friend you had when you were a kid, where you go over to his house for a sandwich and you see his mom and you say to him "did your mom put on some weight?" and he throws a punch at you and wants to kill you for daring to say something about his momma.

Miller is damn lucky to have this fanbase, I hope he understands that better now than he did when he was ready to part ways before the fbi shit happened.

[zonagrad]

I love UofA basketball fans.

They're like that friend you had when you were a kid, where you go over to his house for a sandwich and you see his mom and you say to him "did your mom put on some weight?" and he throws a punch at you and wants to kill you for daring to say something about his momma.

Miller is damn lucky to have this fanbase, I hope he understands that better now than he did when he was ready to part ways before the fbi shit happened.

Not the analogy I would use. But...ok, sure. Yeah.

On another note, I've yet to see Miller do a sideline interview during an ESPN broadcast. I just wonder how that message was conveyed to the network. Was the UA SID proactive and inform ESPN producers that Sean Miller would not be available. At all. All season. For ESPN. Or did ESPN ask if they could talk to Sean prior to the game and the answer was, "Fvck your network. Now and forever."

[PieceOfMeat]

I love UofA basketball fans.

They're like that friend you had when you were a kid, where you go over to his house for a sandwich and you see his mom and you say to him "did your mom put on some weight?" and he throws a punch at you and wants to kill you for daring to say something about his momma.

Miller is damn lucky to have this fanbase, I hope he understands that better now than he did when he was ready to part ways before the fbi shit happened.

Not the analogy I would use. But...ok, sure. Yeah.

On another note, I've yet to see Miller do a sideline interview during an ESPN broadcast. I just wonder how that message was conveyed to the network. Was the UA SID proactive and inform ESPN producers that Sean Miller would not be available. At all. All season. For ESPN. Or did ESPN ask if they could talk to Sean prior to the game and the answer was, "Fvck your network. Now and forever."

I'd imagine it was scenario 1, which effectively tells them scenario 2

[Newportcat]

I love UofA basketball fans.

They're like that friend you had when you were a kid, where you go over to his house for a sandwich and you see his mom and you say to him "did your mom put on some weight?" and he throws a punch at you and wants to kill you for daring to say something about his momma.

Miller is damn lucky to have this fanbase, I hope he understands that better now than he did when he was ready to part ways before the fbi shit happened.

When you were a kid, you used to ask your friends if their Mom's had put on weight....really....like "hey buddy, thanks for the sandwich, so your mom over there, has she put some weight on recently"....and then if you did actually do that you were surprised your friend threw a punch at you.....really

[BBQ wildcat]

Personally, I hope Miller stays here until he decides to retire.

He WILL break through in the tournament.
He is focused, determined, and driven
He has something to prove after the ESPN bullshit.
He is now 1005 UfoA, I believe.

The good thing to come out of the FBI crap? Miller went from "maybe it is time to move on" to "I will SHOW those muthas"

[Merkin]

As much as we hate no FF in the Miller era, no one hates that worse Sean Miller.

[PieceOfMeat]

I love UofA basketball fans.

They're like that friend you had when you were a kid, where you go over to his house for a sandwich and you see his mom and you say to him "did your mom put on some weight?" and he throws a punch at you and wants to kill you for daring to say something about his momma.

Miller is damn lucky to have this fanbase, I hope he understands that better now than he did when he was ready to part ways before the fbi shit happened.

When you were a kid, you used to ask your friends if their Mom's had put on weight....really....like "hey buddy, thanks for the sandwich, so your mom over there, has she put some weight on recently"....and then if you did actually do that you were surprised your friend threw a punch at you.....really

I'd explain that it was an example of an innocuous question that someone would overreact to, but then I couldn't post this:

[Newportcat]

Madonna better then Kim Basinger....

[catgrad97]

Elle "The Body" Macpherson utterly blows away the rest of that list. Wayne and Garth know nothing about ranking women.

[TucsonClip]

If Miller flames out next season, say sweet 16, are we sure he decides to return? Been my question all year.

Honest question. What are everyone's thoughts?

[ChooChooCat]

If Miller flames out next season, say sweet 16, are we sure he decides to return? Been my question all year.

Honest question. What are everyone's thoughts?

I've always thought next year was his go for broke year, but I haven't really considered what he'd do if he fell that short again. I would assume it'd depend on what other options he had, although I can't imagine he'd be in line for a better job. Maybe he'll feel like a change of scenery is required for his own sanity as that's something I always considered he would eventually do if he couldn't get over the hump after 11-12 years. It'll be interesting and I assume how well he can recruit for the 2020 class will ultimately dictate exactly what he'd do. I do kind of feel Miller is stuck with Arizona as much as Arizona is stuck with Miller though especially after the FBI shenanigans. I guess we'll see.

Next year is definitely his ride or die year, which would possibly explain why he's looking into that Santa Clara grad transfer, as I expect him to have a ridiculously young backcourt next season, and he may want to add some experience since next season is so damn important.

[zonagrad]

If Miller flames out next season, say sweet 16, are we sure he decides to return? Been my question all year.

Honest question. What are everyone's thoughts?

Too many "what ifs" for this scenario. Miller knows he has a talented team coming together for next season. But to put expectations on it like "Final Four or we're calling Mayflower and leaving town" is the farthest from his mind. There are so many factors that weigh into a season: injuries, academics, outside influences (and there could be millions of them), etc... Miller knows he'll have a really good team next season. Beyond that...

[TucsonClip]

If Miller flames out next season, say sweet 16, are we sure he decides to return? Been my question all year.

Honest question. What are everyone's thoughts?

I've always thought next year was his go for broke year, but I haven't really considered what he'd do if he fell that short again. I would assume it'd depend on what other options he had, although I can't imagine he'd be in line for a better job. Maybe he'll feel like a change of scenery is required for his own sanity as that's something I always considered he would eventually do if he couldn't get over the hump after 11-12 years. It'll be interesting and I assume how well he can recruit for the 2020 class will ultimately dictate exactly what he'd do. I do kind of feel Miller is stuck with Arizona as much as Arizona is stuck with Miller though especially after the FBI shenanigans. I guess we'll see.

Next year is definitely his ride or die year, which would possibly explain why he's looking into that Santa Clara grad transfer, as I expect him to have a ridiculously young backcourt next season, and he may want to add some experience since next season is so damn important.

Entirely possible. I obviously don't think Miller gets a better job offer, but he might feel like a reset elsewhere after all these years, the FBI shit hopefully having been cleared up, and the fact he was allegedly considering a move before the FBI shit.

Where he could go? No idea. Also, I'm not suggesting in the slightest we even think about firing him.

That said, hes made a lot of noise these past two-ish years about adjusting his system, and that he really wants two PGs, which we finally will have. Plus all the other talent and a loaded class.

Still say I'll believe much changes on either side of the ball when I see it, but it has to be encouraging for guys like BWill and Nico to hear him say that. I suppose that factors into my question as well, because if it's same old vanilla offense and the results don't differ from recent history, I'm not sure where that leads us into the future in the recruiting trail.

[Longhorned]

If Miller flames out next season, say sweet 16, are we sure he decides to return? Been my question all year.

Honest question. What are everyone's thoughts?

I wouldn’t be surprised if he takes a break from coaching. Injuries, just a surprise tourney loss from Hell, or any reason. Coaching and recruiting at this level are just too much grind on a person and his family to keep falling short of your hopes, and everyone else’s expectations. Some time away would let the dust settle on on the ESPN-inflicted impact on his name. And all that consistent winning while ultimately falling short would only help to leave Arizona as one of the most attractive jobs in modern memory. A winning program with everything in place, in search of a savior > trying to fill the shoes of a legend like Miller had to face.

All that said, I hope Miller stays forever.

[Beachcat97]

If Miller flames out next season, say sweet 16, are we sure he decides to return? Been my question all year.

Honest question. What are everyone's thoughts?

It may depend in part on the roster situation. Are Nico an JG one-and-done? If so, then yeah, falling short of the FF again in a year when expectations will be very high...that will be a tough pill.

It's hard to imagine why Miller would leave, though. Clearly, coaching at an elite program is a high water mark in his career. Does he want to coach in the NBA? I sorta doubt it, but I'd have said the same about Stevens and Donovan and (especially) Montgomery. If Miller were coming off a national title, and there were an opening at UNC, maybe he decides to move back east. But at the moment, his stock isn't exactly what it was a few years ago. The scandal, coupled with some early exits from the tourney and the strong likelihood we'll miss the tourney altogether this year...these have probably impacted his market value, at least for the time being.

I continue to think highly of Miller and hope that he remains our coach for many years. I'm excited as everyone about next year's class. It's probably the only thing that makes a loss like Thursday's somewhat palatable.

[Chicat]

BeachCat asks an important question. Where is Miller going?

It’s very rare for someone to quit because of a less than ideal outcome if there isn’t an equal or better opportunity out there. And if it’s just because of fatigue, does where we finish in the tourney somehow make it better or worse?

[Beachcat97]

BeachCat asks an important question. Where is Miller going?

It’s very rare for someone to quit because of a less than ideal outcome if there isn’t an equal or better opportunity out there. And if it’s just because of fatigue, does where we finish in the tourney somehow make it better or worse?

No. Where one finishes in the tourney is simply the (at times) brutal reality of NCAA hoops. Ask Tony Bennett.

I suppose there's always the idea of a "dream job." Where is Sean Miller's dream job? Pitt? UNC? The NBA? Who knows? But there really aren't too many college jobs better than AZ.

[ChooChooCat]

There have been situations where well regarded coaches have either left to go to a school where there's lesser pressure or the school itself with the high amount of pressure decides it's time to move on from the rightfully successful coach because the relationship had just ran its course.

Examples of this:

Rick Barnes from Texas to Tennessee
Ben Howland fired from UCLA regardless of his successes and winning the Pac 12 the year he was fired and later ending up at Mississippi State
Tubby Smith from Kentucky to Minnesota

Those are just off the top of my head and you can even make the stretch and say Josh Pastner from Memphis to Ga Tech. Sometimes a coaching move for the benefit of every one isn't a move up, but rather a move down, where the level of success the coach would bring would gather applause from the new fanbase, but maybe not the old one. I'm certainly not saying that's where Arizona or Sean Miller are at or will be at after next year if we fall short yet again, but it's certainly a direction that could at the very least be explored by at least one of the parties involved. My take is if Sean Miller still has the recruiting mojo for 2020 then nobody goes anywhere regardless of how the 2019-2020 season ends, but if there's a drop off, I could see that route being explored greatly.

[Captain Obvious]

There have been situations where well regarded coaches have either left to go to a school where there's lesser pressure or the school itself with the high amount of pressure decides it's time to move on from the rightfully successful coach because the relationship had just ran its course.

Examples of this:

Rick Barnes from Texas to Tennessee
Ben Howland fired from UCLA regardless of his successes and winning the Pac 12 the year he was fired and later ending up at Mississippi State
Tubby Smith from Kentucky to Minnesota

Those are just off the top of my head and you can even make the stretch and say Josh Pastner from Memphis to Ga Tech. Sometimes a coaching move for the benefit of every one isn't a move up, but rather a move down, where the level of success the coach would bring would gather applause from the new fanbase, but maybe not the old one. I'm certainly not saying that's where Arizona or Sean Miller are at or will be at after next year if we fall short yet again, but it's certainly a direction that could at the very least be explored by at least one of the parties involved. My take is if Sean Miller still has the recruiting mojo for 2020 then nobody goes anywhere regardless of how the 2019-2020 season ends, but if there's a drop off, I could see that route being explored greatly.

If Miller does decide to leave or is terminated which is doubtful what coach would be available or able to come to Arizona? There's a lot of good coaches but many of them like Mark Few have said they are happy where they are at. Dana Altman would be an awesome fit for Arizona but i'm guessing he's getting paid very well for Oregon and may feel the same as Mark Few and possibly under the conditions of a long term contract. I love the style Altman uses and it would certainly put a more exciting product on the court. Not to mention a Final Four caliber coach who has proven over and over he can make the most out of difficult situations. Winning at McKale on Thursday with a depleted roster reaffirmed that.

[prh]

There have been situations where well regarded coaches have either left to go to a school where there's lesser pressure or the school itself with the high amount of pressure decides it's time to move on from the rightfully successful coach because the relationship had just ran its course.

Examples of this:

Rick Barnes from Texas to Tennessee
Ben Howland fired from UCLA regardless of his successes and winning the Pac 12 the year he was fired and later ending up at Mississippi State
Tubby Smith from Kentucky to Minnesota

Those are just off the top of my head and you can even make the stretch and say Josh Pastner from Memphis to Ga Tech. Sometimes a coaching move for the benefit of every one isn't a move up, but rather a move down, where the level of success the coach would bring would gather applause from the new fanbase, but maybe not the old one. I'm certainly not saying that's where Arizona or Sean Miller are at or will be at after next year if we fall short yet again, but it's certainly a direction that could at the very least be explored by at least one of the parties involved. My take is if Sean Miller still has the recruiting mojo for 2020 then nobody goes anywhere regardless of how the 2019-2020 season ends, but if there's a drop off, I could see that route being explored greatly.

If Miller does decide to leave or is terminated which is doubtful what coach would be available or able to come to Arizona? There's a lot of good coaches but many of them like Mark Few have said they are happy where they are at. Dana Altman would be an awesome fit for Arizona but i'm guessing he's getting paid very well for Oregon and may feel the same as Mark Few and possibly under the conditions of a long term contract. I love the style Altman uses and it would certainly put a more exciting product on the court. Not to mention a Final Four caliber coach who has proven over and over he can make the most out of difficult situations. Winning at McKale on Thursday with a depleted roster reaffirmed that.

1000% do not want Altman. I do not want a coach who will trade his (and the university's) soul for a final four

[ChooChooCat]

There have been situations where well regarded coaches have either left to go to a school where there's lesser pressure or the school itself with the high amount of pressure decides it's time to move on from the rightfully successful coach because the relationship had just ran its course.

Examples of this:

Rick Barnes from Texas to Tennessee
Ben Howland fired from UCLA regardless of his successes and winning the Pac 12 the year he was fired and later ending up at Mississippi State
Tubby Smith from Kentucky to Minnesota

Those are just off the top of my head and you can even make the stretch and say Josh Pastner from Memphis to Ga Tech. Sometimes a coaching move for the benefit of every one isn't a move up, but rather a move down, where the level of success the coach would bring would gather applause from the new fanbase, but maybe not the old one. I'm certainly not saying that's where Arizona or Sean Miller are at or will be at after next year if we fall short yet again, but it's certainly a direction that could at the very least be explored by at least one of the parties involved. My take is if Sean Miller still has the recruiting mojo for 2020 then nobody goes anywhere regardless of how the 2019-2020 season ends, but if there's a drop off, I could see that route being explored greatly.

If Miller does decide to leave or is terminated which is doubtful what coach would be available or able to come to Arizona? There's a lot of good coaches but many of them like Mark Few have said they are happy where they are at. Dana Altman would be an awesome fit for Arizona but i'm guessing he's getting paid very well for Oregon and may feel the same as Mark Few and possibly under the conditions of a long term contract. I love the style Altman uses and it would certainly put a more exciting product on the court. Not to mention a Final Four caliber coach who has proven over and over he can make the most out of difficult situations. Winning at McKale on Thursday with a depleted roster reaffirmed that.

We'll obviously cross that bridge when we get there. Chris Beard from Texas Tech would be one of my top choices, Musselman would be a possibility if he passed the background check, Kevin Keatts from NC State, etc., etc. There wouldn't be a shortage of quality candidates that would take Arizona over their current school due to our resources, lack of competition in our region, and ability to recruit at a high level.

[enfuego]

If you are serious about getting rid of Sean Miller, right now or after this season, do you have any idea what you're asking for? You'll kill Arizona basketball for maybe a decade. That's not some shitty Andy Katz position. That's the truth. You won't be able to attract any experienced coach with any sort of reputation as a recruiter or teacher. Arizona will become a toxic environment. So the next coach will get a short stint. Maybe a Ben Lindsey type stay. And you're better off putting the family savings on the roulette wheel at Casino del Sol than hitting another grand slam hire like Lute Olson after you fire the coach that replaces Miller.

This season is frustrating and maddening. It's like this because expectations are SO HIGH. And Miller is to blame for those expectations because he's won the conference 5 times in 10 years. Take a look at the box scores of the NBA games from this week. You'll see some familiar names. Trier. Hollis-Jefferson. McConnell. Ayton. Markannen. Gordon. Hill. Better yet. Check their salaries:

Rondae: $2.5 million
McConnell: $1.6 million
Ayton: $8.2 million
Gordon: $21.6 million
Hill: $12 million
Johnson: $3.9 million
Markannen: $4.5 million
Trier: $3.4 million.

Throw in Kadeem Allen and Rawle Alkins, who are currently on NBA rosters as well. Those are Sean Miller guys. Recruited and coached by Sean Miller. Not leftovers from the Lute era.

Do you think for one fucking minute any of these guys would endorse the shitty opinion that Sean Miller needs to go? That Sean Miller can't coach? That Sean Miller just isn't good enough for Arizona basketball?

You are making the argument for everyone lobbying for Miller to get canned. Re-read your post and figure out why.

[Chicat]

There have been situations where well regarded coaches have either left to go to a school where there's lesser pressure or the school itself with the high amount of pressure decides it's time to move on from the rightfully successful coach because the relationship had just ran its course.

Examples of this:

Rick Barnes from Texas to Tennessee
Ben Howland fired from UCLA regardless of his successes and winning the Pac 12 the year he was fired and later ending up at Mississippi State
Tubby Smith from Kentucky to Minnesota

Those are just off the top of my head and you can even make the stretch and say Josh Pastner from Memphis to Ga Tech. Sometimes a coaching move for the benefit of every one isn't a move up, but rather a move down, where the level of success the coach would bring would gather applause from the new fanbase, but maybe not the old one. I'm certainly not saying that's where Arizona or Sean Miller are at or will be at after next year if we fall short yet again, but it's certainly a direction that could at the very least be explored by at least one of the parties involved. My take is if Sean Miller still has the recruiting mojo for 2020 then nobody goes anywhere regardless of how the 2019-2020 season ends, but if there's a drop off, I could see that route being explored greatly.

Getting fired isn’t exactly “deciding to leave”.
Neither is what happened to Tubby at Kentucky.

I’d say Texas to Tennessee is a lateral move and Memphis to Georgia Tech is a slight step up.

Notwithstanding your examples, I have a hard time envisioning Miller going to a situation with less pressure because he only wins two games in next year’s tourney. Doesn’t seem like his style.

[ChooChooCat]

There have been situations where well regarded coaches have either left to go to a school where there's lesser pressure or the school itself with the high amount of pressure decides it's time to move on from the rightfully successful coach because the relationship had just ran its course.

Examples of this:

Rick Barnes from Texas to Tennessee
Ben Howland fired from UCLA regardless of his successes and winning the Pac 12 the year he was fired and later ending up at Mississippi State
Tubby Smith from Kentucky to Minnesota

Those are just off the top of my head and you can even make the stretch and say Josh Pastner from Memphis to Ga Tech. Sometimes a coaching move for the benefit of every one isn't a move up, but rather a move down, where the level of success the coach would bring would gather applause from the new fanbase, but maybe not the old one. I'm certainly not saying that's where Arizona or Sean Miller are at or will be at after next year if we fall short yet again, but it's certainly a direction that could at the very least be explored by at least one of the parties involved. My take is if Sean Miller still has the recruiting mojo for 2020 then nobody goes anywhere regardless of how the 2019-2020 season ends, but if there's a drop off, I could see that route being explored greatly.

Getting fired isn’t exactly “deciding to leave”.
Neither is what happened to Tubby at Kentucky.

I’d say Texas to Tennessee is a lateral move and Memphis to Georgia Tech is a slight step up.

Notwithstanding your examples, I have a hard time envisioning Miller going to a situation with less pressure because he only wins two games in next year’s tourney. Doesn’t seem like his style.

The only one I listed that got formally fired was Ben Howland, the rest all left whether forced out or on their own accord. You and I are going to have to disagree on Texas compared to Tennessee, considering the resources and recruiting region for Texas far exceeds Tennessee and also Memphis cares about basketball, while Ga Tech doesn't.

Either way I mentioned either Miller or Arizona or both coming to that decision. I wouldn't expect it to come after next year, but maybe a year or two down the road depending on how things are looking. As I said 2020 recruiting and even 2021 will dictate a lot about the future of this relationship as well as obviously how 2019-2020 ends.

[Chicat]

The only one I listed that got formally fired was Ben Howland, the rest all left whether forced out or on their own accord.

The original question was about Miller deciding to leave of his own accord after a subpar tourney result. That’s what I’m responding to.

[Beachcat97]

The only one I listed that got formally fired was Ben Howland, the rest all left whether forced out or on their own accord.

The original question was about Miller deciding to leave of his own accord after a subpar tourney result. That’s what I’m responding to.

I think you also have to consider that Miller has an elite college job. It’s incredibly rare for guys with these jobs to just simply “leave.” They’re fired all the time. But for Miller to be fired, there’d either need to be egregious evidence of wrongdoing or a prolonged nosedive in the Pac standings.

Most here are seeing this season as an aberration, and that next season we’ll be right back in the national conversation. That’s my expectation, at least. When Miller has strong rosters, he wins Pac titles and gets to the second weekend of the tourney. No reason to expect that won’t continue.

[Newportcat]

Choo

I usually 1000% agree with you but Barnes was fired from texas, and tubby was told to leave.

Your justifications for Miller taking an inferior job are poor unless Arizona fired him which the Davis family is not going to sign up for and only way our program can afford to do it.

Miller ain’t leaving unless a better job comes calling. College coaches strive to find the easiest places to recruit to. That has been proven time and time again. Miller is hell bent on proving he is an elite basketball coach do to me he wants to be st a place where you can recruit at an elite level.

Maybe you know something I don’t though so could be wrong. I think the idea of Miller leaving for an inferior job is pretty laughable. Honestly, when has a college coach really ever done that under their own free will. And has it ever worked out?

[Harvey Specter]

So Dana Altman is a “Final 4 caliber coach”. Technically, yes. Mike Davis is a “National Semi-Final” caliber coach. And Kevin Ollie is a “National Champion” caliber coach.

Either of the final 2 would definitely be available, so that is who we should go for. Neither can win conference championships, but those do not matter. WE ARE ARIZONA.

And Altman’s single win this week in Tucson is further evidence of his superior coaching acumen. LOL Because the Arizona roster this year has not been hamstrung at all. Not to mention that both Miller has countless wins that are more important and impressive than this past Thursday (Altman has plenty of better ones too)... but recency bias and convenience take precedent. Of course.

And then prognostications of Miller’s future in Tucson from the self appointed insider-connected board authority on all things Arizona Basketball... who declared a week before he committed here that Brandon Williams was picking either Oregon or Gonzaga. 50/50 tossup I think it was.

Pure. Fucking, Gold.

PS - Technically Dana Altman “took a lower job” when he left K-State to “head home and be the head coach at Creighton”. After going 4-10 in B12 play in his final year in Manhattan.

[ChooChooCat]

Choo

I usually 1000% agree with you but Barnes was fired from texas, and tubby was told to leave.

Your justifications for Miller taking an inferior job are poor unless Arizona fired him which the Davis family is not going to sign up for and only way our program can afford to do it.

Miller ain’t leaving unless a better job comes calling. College coaches strive to find the easiest places to recruit to. That has been proven time and time again. Miller is hell bent on proving he is an elite basketball coach do to me he wants to be st a place where you can recruit at an elite level.

Maybe you know something I don’t though so could be wrong. I think the idea of Miller leaving for an inferior job is pretty laughable. Honestly, when has a college coach really ever done that under their own free will. And has it ever worked out?

Damn you're right. Barnes got the Tennessee job like literally the following day, which is why I overlooked that, kudos Newport. FWIW I also don't believe Miller would leave for a lower pressure job either. I think if it did happen it would be on Arizona's end. I certainly am not expecting it FWIW, just saying the possibility certainly exists.

[ChooChooCat]

So Dana Altman is a “Final 4 caliber coach”. Technically, yes. Mike Davis is a “National Semi-Final” caliber coach. And Kevin Ollie is a “National Champion” caliber coach.

Either of the final 2 would definitely be available, so that is who we should go for. Neither can win conference championships, but those do not matter. WE ARE ARIZONA.

And Altman’s single win this week in Tucson is further evidence of his superior coaching acumen. LOL Because the Arizona roster this year has not been hamstrung at all. Not to mention that both Miller has countless wins that are more important and impressive than this past Thursday (Altman has plenty of better ones too)... but recency bias and convenience take precedent. Of course.

And then prognostications of Miller’s future in Tucson from the self appointed insider-connected board authority on all things Arizona Basketball... who declared a week before he committed here that Brandon Williams was picking either Oregon or Gonzaga. 50/50 tossup I think it was.

Pure. Fucking, Gold.

PS - Technically Dana Altman “took a lower job” when he left K-State to “head home and be the head coach at Creighton”. After going 4-10 in B12 play in his final year in Manhattan.

Are we trying to make this a dick measuring contest Harvey? Good christ, I don't attack anybody ever here, but your entire blurb about me reeks of pure penis envy, it's pathetic.

I never said any of this was insider information. Hell 95% of what I post in general are my own personal thoughts. I'm entitled to those aren't I, or am I not allowed because I get an inkling or two of info and share it with you guys here? I honestly don't remember what I said about Williams a week before he committed, but I'll just say you probably got me pal, because if it was up to Williams's stepfather it would've been one of those two schools. Did that make your dick grow a millimeter larger Harv? Ya feel good about yourself now? Go brag about it to your loved one and mark a new notch on your chart of things Choo has posted. Self appointed insider? Lol good lord you're pathetic.

[Chicat]

Arizona (AD & fans) are forgiving to a fault when it comes to coaches it seems. I just can’t imagine a scenario where there is so much pressure to make a change that Miller moves on.

[ChooChooCat]

Arizona (AD & fans) are forgiving to a fault when it comes to coaches it seems. I just can’t imagine a scenario where there is so much pressure to make a change that Miller moves on.

That's certainly been the case with the basketball program, because we went from Lute to Sean, so it hasn't been an issue since the 80s. Sean's issue though is the program's overall Final Four drought and his inability to get Arizona over the hump in a decade along with the off the court distractions. I don't expect it as I mentioned, but Arizona is headed for new leadership in the coming years, so we'll see, so I wouldn't be surprised. 2020 and 2021 recruiting will be important pending the 2019-2020 season results.

Now read your post and think about the football program. It's obvious why the AD and fanbase aren't giving football the same slack basketball has though.

[dmjcat]

Arizona (AD & fans) are forgiving to a fault when it comes to coaches it seems. I just can’t imagine a scenario where there is so much pressure to make a change that Miller moves on.

I can.

If the NCAA hammers us with severe sanctions resulting from the FBI scandal I can easily see Miller moving on.

[Chicat]

Arizona (AD & fans) are forgiving to a fault when it comes to coaches it seems. I just can’t imagine a scenario where there is so much pressure to make a change that Miller moves on.

I can.

If the NCAA hammers us with severe sanctions resulting from the FBI scandal I can easily see Miller moving on.

Yes, obviously. But even after Schlabach’s report hit the wire, the fans rallied to Miller’s defense.

[ChooChooCat]

Arizona (AD & fans) are forgiving to a fault when it comes to coaches it seems. I just can’t imagine a scenario where there is so much pressure to make a change that Miller moves on.

I can.

If the NCAA hammers us with severe sanctions resulting from the FBI scandal I can easily see Miller moving on.

Yes, obviously. But even after Schlabach’s report hit the wire, the fans rallied to Miller’s defense.

After it was beyond apparent the entire report was bogus the troops certainly backed him. If the report even had an inkling of truth to it then the fans probably wouldn't have been very supportive at all.

Either way sanctions of some sort may be coming, but "severe," doubtful.

[Beachcat97]

Another thing: while it’s still early, I really wouldn’t expect much of a drop off recruiting-wise in the next few years. Miller has a top 3 class in ‘19, and that’s in the immediate wake of the scandal. When elite players come to AZ and thrive, as they have throughout Miller’s time at AZ, other elite players will keep choosing UofA. And they’re not just choosing this program and its legacy; they’re choosing Sean Miller.

[Chicat]

Arizona (AD & fans) are forgiving to a fault when it comes to coaches it seems. I just can’t imagine a scenario where there is so much pressure to make a change that Miller moves on.

I can.

If the NCAA hammers us with severe sanctions resulting from the FBI scandal I can easily see Miller moving on.

Yes, obviously. But even after Schlabach’s report hit the wire, the fans rallied to Miller’s defense.

After it was beyond apparent the entire report was bogus the troops certainly backed him. If the report even had an inkling of truth to it then the fans probably wouldn't have been very supportive at all.

That’s not the way I remember the timeline of the groundswell of support for Miller, but it’s fine if we disagree on this.

[ChooChooCat]

Arizona (AD & fans) are forgiving to a fault when it comes to coaches it seems. I just can’t imagine a scenario where there is so much pressure to make a change that Miller moves on.

I can.

If the NCAA hammers us with severe sanctions resulting from the FBI scandal I can easily see Miller moving on.

Yes, obviously. But even after Schlabach’s report hit the wire, the fans rallied to Miller’s defense.

After it was beyond apparent the entire report was bogus the troops certainly backed him. If the report even had an inkling of truth to it then the fans probably wouldn't have been very supportive at all.

That’s not the way I remember the timeline of the groundswell of support for Miller, but it’s fine if we disagree on this.

To be fair it became apparent it was bogus fairly damn quickly. I don't think we disagree at all, just semantics is all.

[azcat49]

Choo, you keep talking about new leadership of the department. Are we talking about Heeje or Robbins? Do they just not like it here or are they just not effective?

[Longhorned]

Choo, you keep talking about new leadership of the department. Are we talking about Heeje or Robbins? Do they just not like it here or are they just not effective?

I'm curious about this, too. Choo said Arizona is headed for new leadership. The only new leadership change on the table is the imminent hire of a Senior Vice President for Academic Affairs and Provost (that's a single hire), replacing the current interim. Robbins and Heeke are both just getting started. And I can tell you that the leadership under Robbins is absolutely on fire right now.

[CalStateTempe]

Choo, you keep talking about new leadership of the department. Are we talking about Heeje or Robbins? Do they just not like it here or are they just not effective?

I'm curious about this, too. Choo said Arizona is headed for new leadership. The only new leadership change on the table is the imminent hire of a Senior Vice President for Academic Affairs and Provost (that's a single hire), replacing the current interim. Robbins and Heeke are both just getting started. And I can tell you that the leadership under Robbins is absolutely on fire right now.

I'm reading the white spaces between the letters and am curious as well.

[UAEebs86]

He's been hinting the Heeke might not be here much longer. I've seen similar comments at Scheer's site from others.

Remember Robbins didn't hire him.

[ChooChooCat]

And I can tell you that the leadership under Robbins is absolutely on fire right now.

Not every body feels that way that's for sure. He's not the guy I'm talking about though at least at the moment.