Sean Miller

[mrqsjhnsnsux]

If they fire Miller now, he’s going to become the Jose Canseco of college basketball

[OSUCat]

Bah. I’m done with Arizona basketball until a new coach is hired. Not worth the time.

Well, things seem to be moving fast.

[Frybry02]

My question is how and why does this come out now? With all the money and time Arizona has spent on its own investigation, I have to believe this would have been found early in the process. If so, why wasn’t any action taken prior on Phelps if it was a violation.? If not, how in the hell was this not found earlier during the internal investstion, especially with all that money spent?

[phxcat23]

My question is how and why does this come out now? With all the money and time Arizona has spent on its own investigation, I have to believe this would have been found early in the process. If so, why wasn’t any action taken prior on Phelps if it was a violation.? If not, how in the hell was this not found earlier during the internal investstion, especially with all that money spent?

If a legit internal investigation was conducted, maybe it did come up and swept under the rug until the university knew the NCAA was going to investigate since we were already dealing with 1 asst going rogue and everything else. FBI wouldn't have done anything with it, but the NCAA would. Now that they are investigating we bring it forward.

[ChooChooCat]

CG. You’re a smart guy and have seen the inner workings of an AD what is your take?

Power play between heeke and miller?

Dave Heeke decided to sacrifice the Arizona Basketball program to the gods. He professed Mark Phelps guilty when the NCAA didn't and they have the same exact info, by doing as much he's laying the groundwork to build a case to fire Miller with cause, as well as going the Missouri route and 100% taking on sanctions regardless of what occurs with the FBI stuff. Arizona Basketball is dead and it'll take a literal Jesus Christ to raise it from the dead. Arizona won't have any money due to the fact it'll still be paying off RR's buyout, it'll be dealing from a lawsuit from Mark Phelps, and of course it'll most likely have to pay Miller's huge buyout as well, although they'll fight tooth and nail about that, but once again more lawyers! I don't see what support the boosters will give this current admin regime and we'll probably have a Wyking Jones type coach for an unknown amount of time.

I'm solely backing the Arizona baseball and softball programs and won't support the basketball and football regimes until both Heeke and Robbins are gone as this falls on both of them equally.

[ChooChooCat]

Do we actually know that Phelps has been fired??? as opposed to just being placed on paid leave??

Has the athletic dept. actually issued a PR??

Personally, I believe about 1% of what I read on the internet.

He will be fired and he will sue.

Either way you get what you've been asking for and that's sanctions. I hope you're happy with that outcome.

[Spaceman Spiff]

My question is how and why does this come out now? With all the money and time Arizona has spent on its own investigation, I have to believe this would have been found early in the process. If so, why wasn’t any action taken prior on Phelps if it was a violation.? If not, how in the hell was this not found earlier during the internal investstion, especially with all that money spent?

If a legit internal investigation was conducted, maybe it did come up and swept under the rug until the university knew the NCAA was going to investigate since we were already dealing with 1 asst going rogue and everything else. FBI wouldn't have done anything with it, but the NCAA would. Now that they are investigating we bring it forward.

Maybe it wasn't anything important until it served another purpose.

[Alieberman]

I think I need to be put on administrative leave from this site and all of Arizona Athletics

[phenom5]

Wow, the timing of all this could not be worse. ChooChooCat pretty much summed it up. The reality is something like this would be a major step back for the program under solid leadership.

Instead we get 2 recruiting classes gutted, the department in huge debt because our ass-clown AD doesn't like cursing, sanctions for a level 1 violation that may or may not have happened, potentially more sanctions from all of the FBI stuff, probably a couple of lawsuits, probably millions more debt, AAAANNNNNNDDDDDD we get to watch this ass-hat of an AD try and make a hire to a program that coaches are going to be scared to death of because of all the above, and said chicken shit AD.

Is 7am too early to start drinking?

[Gladiator Cat]

A major transition sits on the doorstep of the basketball program and many won't like it, but change approaches.

If a rational, clearly thinking person can cast their biases aside, there has been a subdued concern surrounding the basketball program for months now, and the mounting negativity is starting to appear to be justified on some level of the greater conscience.

The University and its athletic department is about to go through numerous serious earthshaking program debilitating events and nothing can stop it at this point.

A) Football: A first year coach who had a losing season and lacks major support for a flailing program marred in muck and mediocrity that still lacks respectability and financial staying power.

B) Swimming: A major nationally recognized swimming program that was just placed on probation.

C) Basketball: Elite level program and money maker that is on the doorstep of a complete implosion as accusations of misconduct and lack of institutional control mount. There is simply too much smoke and fire for all of this to be just an ill conceived conspiracy of hate, or simply a series of one off accidents and innocent actions by coaches that are/were misunderstood.

A smaller less vibrant school financially like Arizona seldom escapes these types of headwinds without major long-term damage.

Sean Miller is in trouble as the head coach and no amount of denial will change the dynamics in play. No one is going to come out of this unscathed and numerous reputations are going to be damaged.

Big changes are coming and the program is at a crossroads.

[Olsondogg]

The “there’s too much smoke not to be fire” is what inpatient stupid people say to justify irrational decisions. Decisions made with this in mind is what sets programs back years, if not more.

There was just as much smoke a year ago, why now and not then?

[ChooChooCat]

A major transition sits on the doorstep of the basketball program and many won't like it, but change approaches.

If a rational, clearly thinking person can cast their biases aside, there has been a subdued concern surrounding the basketball program for months now, and the mounting negativity is starting to appear to be justified on some level of the greater conscience.

The University and its athletic department is about to go through numerous serious earthshaking program debilitating events and nothing can stop it at this point.

A) Football: A first year coach who had a losing season and lacks major support for a flailing program marred in muck and mediocrity that still lacks respectability and financial staying power.

B) Swimming: A major nationally recognized swimming program that was just placed on probation.

C) Basketball: Elite level program and money maker that is on the doorstep of a complete implosion as accusations of misconduct and lack of institutional control mount. There is simply too much smoke and fire for all of this to be just an ill conceived conspiracy of hate, or simply a series of one off accidents and innocent actions by coaches that are/were misunderstood.

A smaller less vibrant school financially like Arizona seldom escapes these types of headwinds without major long-term damage.

Sean Miller is in trouble as the head coach and no amount of denial will change the dynamics in play. No one is going to come out of this unscathed and numerous reputations are going to be damaged.

Big changes are coming and the program is at a crossroads.

If anyone was rational from the beginning we would've just fired Sean Miller last season and be in the current position Louisville is in, but instead we retained him, let him recruit the #1 recruiting class in the nation, which made it difficult to fire him, yet our admin has said "fuck it" anyways and has decided to sabotage next year and countless years beyond.

A is most certainly an issue, which again falls on Heeke/Robbins, who irrationally fired Rich Rod at a really questionable time (I'm no Rich Rod guy, but the timing and the logic behind it was dumb, and now we owe the man MILLIONS) and for what? To rush to a 5-7 season?

B is a big fat who gives a shit.

C obviously is an issue as it is the entire cash cow of the athletic department. Granted some of it is out of the admin's hands, but alas they're sabotaging their greatest money producer at a really inopportune time. Good luck paying the bills with people no longer showing up to the games.

Yep, Arizona will sustain major long term damage from this, especially considering the amount of money we've spent on recent renovations and now pissing off the donors with what will be occurring with Sean Miller.

The athletic department is at a crossroads and I am far from confident in its leadership to see any light at the end of this tunnel.

[ChooChooCat]

The “there’s too much smoke not to be fire” is what inpatient stupid people say to justify irrational decisions. Decisions made with this in mind is what sets programs back years, if not more.

There was just as much smoke a year ago, why now and not then?

Because our leadership is fucking retarded.

[Gladiator Cat]

Simply put, with three of Miller's very recent assistants being implicated in numerous shady dealings and potentially illegal activity on various levels speaks volumes on Millers compliance efficacy.

Diehard fans will balk at any of this talk, but your only kidding yourselves.

[ChooChooCat]

Simply put, with three of Miller's very recent assistants being implicated in numerous shady dealings and potentially illegal activity on various levels speaks volumes on Millers compliance efficacy.

Diehard fans will balk at any of this talk, but your only kidding yourselves.

Allegations mean nothing.

1. Book is guilty, it's done, but it wasn't meant to benefit Arizona, but rather himself.
2. Pasternack is all hearsay bullshit. He did have a sit down with Dawkins along with Book, but it never went beyond that.
3. Phelps is currently guilty of providing a loan to Keanu Pinder to fly to a friend's wedding in NOLA, which Pinder paid back. That was ridiculously dumb and avoidable. The current thing against Phelps came from an accusation from another school. Arizona & the NCAA looked into it. NCAA hasn't found anything to deem Phelps guilty, Heeke panicked and fired Phelps anyways, which we will pay for if it can't be proven he was guilty.

You don't panic in the face of allegations. You punish in the face of truth.

If you want to be real honest with yourself you'd understand that diehard fans balked at all the bullshit, because outside of Book it has been all bullshit. Combine that with the fact Arizona was able to convince 4 highly rated guys and their circles that Sean and his staff were clear of every thing and well yeah they're going to think it's even more bullshit. Sean couldn't foresee how worthless his administration would be though.

[Olsondogg]

The “there’s too much smoke not to be fire” is what inpatient stupid people say to justify irrational decisions. Decisions made with this in mind is what sets programs back years, if not more.

There was just as much smoke a year ago, why now and not then?

Because our leadership is fucking retarded.

They saw what they interpreted as a reason to fire with cause and it’s gonna blow up in their face. The other thing that will blow up is fan support from the likes of you, me and countless others who realize what’s going on and will refuse to support it going forward. Oh yeah, and those boosters that are gonzo too.

[Olsondogg]

Choo is spot on with all of this, per usual

[Olsondogg]

Coach Cal lives in the world of allegations but doesn’t have an idiot AD. Go figure.

[CalStateTempe]

I want to call in sick...

[ChooChooCat]

The “there’s too much smoke not to be fire” is what inpatient stupid people say to justify irrational decisions. Decisions made with this in mind is what sets programs back years, if not more.

There was just as much smoke a year ago, why now and not then?

Because our leadership is fucking retarded.

They saw what they interpreted as a reason to fire with cause and it’s gonna blow up in their face. The other thing that will blow up is fan support from the likes of you, me and countless others who realize what’s going on and will refuse to support it going forward. Oh yeah, and those boosters that are gonzo too.

Brother I'm already done. Such ineptitude is hard to support.

[Olsondogg]

The “there’s too much smoke not to be fire” is what inpatient stupid people say to justify irrational decisions. Decisions made with this in mind is what sets programs back years, if not more.

There was just as much smoke a year ago, why now and not then?

Because our leadership is fucking retarded.

They saw what they interpreted as a reason to fire with cause and it’s gonna blow up in their face. The other thing that will blow up is fan support from the likes of you, me and countless others who realize what’s going on and will refuse to support it going forward. Oh yeah, and those boosters that are gonzo too.

Brother I'm already done. Such ineptitude is hard to support.

I get it. I’m in the hospice stage of support.

[CalStateTempe]

Why won’t Robbins side with Miller and can heeke? He’s from UT he knows how this game is played.

[PHXCATS]

Simply put, with three of Miller's very recent assistants being implicated in numerous shady dealings and potentially illegal activity on various levels speaks volumes on Millers compliance efficacy.

Diehard fans will balk at any of this talk, but your only kidding yourselves.

Allegations mean nothing.

1. Book is guilty, it's done, but it wasn't meant to benefit Arizona, but rather himself.
2. Pasternack is all hearsay bullshit. He did have a sit down with Dawkins along with Book, but it never went beyond that.
3. Phelps is currently guilty of providing a loan to Keanu Pinder to fly to a friend's wedding in NOLA, which Pinder paid back. That was ridiculously dumb and avoidable. The current thing against Phelps came from an accusation from another school. Arizona & the NCAA looked into it. NCAA hasn't found anything to deem Phelps guilty, Heeke panicked and fired Phelps anyways, which we will pay for if it can't be proven he was guilty.

You don't panic in the face of allegations. You punish in the face of truth.

If you want to be real honest with yourself you'd understand that diehard fans balked at all the bullshit, because outside of Book it has been all bullshit. Combine that with the fact Arizona was able to convince 4 highly rated guys and their circles that Sean and his staff were clear of every thing and well yeah they're going to think it's even more bullshit. Sean couldn't foresee how worthless his administration would be though.

For #2 are you saying you are confident that Pasternak did not offer $50k to Bowen's dad?

[DrWildcat]

You don't back a guy after last year only to do this now. Literally the dumbest thing you could possibly do.

[CalStateTempe]

..

[Spaceman Spiff]

Simply put, with three of Miller's very recent assistants being implicated in numerous shady dealings and potentially illegal activity on various levels speaks volumes on Millers compliance efficacy.

Diehard fans will balk at any of this talk, but your only kidding yourselves.

Allegations mean nothing.

1. Book is guilty, it's done, but it wasn't meant to benefit Arizona, but rather himself.
2. Pasternack is all hearsay bullshit. He did have a sit down with Dawkins along with Book, but it never went beyond that.
3. Phelps is currently guilty of providing a loan to Keanu Pinder to fly to a friend's wedding in NOLA, which Pinder paid back. That was ridiculously dumb and avoidable. The current thing against Phelps came from an accusation from another school. Arizona & the NCAA looked into it. NCAA hasn't found anything to deem Phelps guilty, Heeke panicked and fired Phelps anyways, which we will pay for if it can't be proven he was guilty.

You don't panic in the face of allegations. You punish in the face of truth.

If you want to be real honest with yourself you'd understand that diehard fans balked at all the bullshit, because outside of Book it has been all bullshit. Combine that with the fact Arizona was able to convince 4 highly rated guys and their circles that Sean and his staff were clear of every thing and well yeah they're going to think it's even more bullshit. Sean couldn't foresee how worthless his administration would be though.

For #2 are you saying you are confident that Pasternak did not offer $50k to Bowen's dad?

Is there anything beyond the word of Bowen's dad to say that happened?

Why would Pasternak offer himself when the remainder of the offers went through intermediaries? Who does the burden of proof fall to? Is it you to show actual wrongdoing or Choo to prove Pasternak's innocence?

[dmjcat]

Do we actually know that Phelps has been fired??? as opposed to just being placed on paid leave??

Has the athletic dept. actually issued a PR??

Personally, I believe about 1% of what I read on the internet.

He will be fired and he will sue.

Either way you get what you've been asking for and that's sanctions. I hope you're happy with that outcome.

Good grief. I have never "Wanted NCAA Sanction". What I did suggest last year (and that suggestion is starting to look rather prescient) is that we should have considered parting ways with Miller and self sanctioning (not go to the tourney last year). That would have largely put this mess behind us.

I have been of the opinion that Sanctions were a distinct possibility........and you have consistently poo-poo'd that for the past year. Are you now saying that you were wrong and that sanctions are likely?

[Olsondogg]

Arizona basically sanctioned itself by saying Phelps commited an offense and they are firing him for it. Even though the NCAA hasn’t come to that conclusion after 2 plus weeks of investigation. Arizona played the shell game on itself

[ChooChooCat]

Do we actually know that Phelps has been fired??? as opposed to just being placed on paid leave??

Has the athletic dept. actually issued a PR??

Personally, I believe about 1% of what I read on the internet.

He will be fired and he will sue.

Either way you get what you've been asking for and that's sanctions. I hope you're happy with that outcome.

Good grief. I have never "Wanted NCAA Sanction". What I did suggest last year (and that suggestion is starting to look rather prescient) is that we should have considered parting ways with Miller and self sanctioning (not go to the tourney last year).

I have been of the opinion that Sanctions were a distinct possibility........and you have consistently poo-poo'd that for the past year. Are you now saying that you were wrong and that sanctions are likely?

Well now that Heeke has deemed Phelps guilty before the NCAA could even find a shred of reason to deem him so, yes we will get sanctions, which will very likely 100% match Mizzou's. I poo poo you for relishing in the fact that other fans thinking that because no offense was ever made clear for what we would actually get hit for that there was no clear violation. The coaching staff certainly did an amazing sell job to the fans that it was going to be fine considering the players they landed in the face of it all. It's all for naught though, because we will be sanctioned for Phelps's transgressions, whether he committed any or not. This is the last time I talk to you about sanctions dmj, good for you, you win in the end due to semantics.

[CalStateTempe]

Wow, the timing of all this could not be worse. ChooChooCat pretty much summed it up. The reality is something like this would be a major step back for the program under solid leadership.

Instead we get 2 recruiting classes gutted, the department in huge debt because our ass-clown AD doesn't like cursing, sanctions for a level 1 violation that may or may not have happened, potentially more sanctions from all of the FBI stuff, probably a couple of lawsuits, probably millions more debt, AAAANNNNNNDDDDDD we get to watch this ass-hat of an AD try and make a hire to a program that coaches are going to be scared to death of because of all the above, and said chicken shit AD.

Is 7am too early to start drinking?

[CalStateTempe]

CST feels like...

[dovecanyoncat]

via Imgflip Meme Generator

[dmjcat]

Do we actually know that Phelps has been fired??? as opposed to just being placed on paid leave??

Has the athletic dept. actually issued a PR??

Personally, I believe about 1% of what I read on the internet.

He will be fired and he will sue.

Either way you get what you've been asking for and that's sanctions. I hope you're happy with that outcome.

Good grief. I have never "Wanted NCAA Sanction". What I did suggest last year (and that suggestion is starting to look rather prescient) is that we should have considered parting ways with Miller and self sanctioning (not go to the tourney last year).

I have been of the opinion that Sanctions were a distinct possibility........and you have consistently poo-poo'd that for the past year. Are you now saying that you were wrong and that sanctions are likely?

Well now that Heeke has deemed Phelps guilty before the NCAA could even find a shred of reason to deem him so, yes we will get sanctions, which will very likely 100% match Mizzou's. I poo poo you for relishing in the fact that other fans thinking that because no offense was ever made clear for what we would actually get hit for that there was no clear violation. The coaching staff certainly did an amazing sell job to the fans that it was going to be fine considering the players they landed in the face of it all. It's all for naught though, because we will be sanctioned for Phelps's transgressions, whether he committed any or not. This is the last time I talk to you about sanctions dmj, good for you, you win in the end due to semantics.

Put a sock in it. I have never "relished" anything regarding this whole mess.

And yes Choo, there were "offenses made clear"........Book pleaded guilty to violating NCAA rules. If you can't bring yourself to see that then I can't help you. I find it interesting that you are condemning Heeke (who presumably has FAR more information regarding Phelps and the general FBI mess than you do). Is it possible that you are emotionally over-reacting without knowing all of the facts?

And one other thing. Book pleading guilty to what essentially is an NCAA violation is NOT semantics........its FACT.

[ChooChooCat]

Simply put, with three of Miller's very recent assistants being implicated in numerous shady dealings and potentially illegal activity on various levels speaks volumes on Millers compliance efficacy.

Diehard fans will balk at any of this talk, but your only kidding yourselves.

Allegations mean nothing.

1. Book is guilty, it's done, but it wasn't meant to benefit Arizona, but rather himself.
2. Pasternack is all hearsay bullshit. He did have a sit down with Dawkins along with Book, but it never went beyond that.
3. Phelps is currently guilty of providing a loan to Keanu Pinder to fly to a friend's wedding in NOLA, which Pinder paid back. That was ridiculously dumb and avoidable. The current thing against Phelps came from an accusation from another school. Arizona & the NCAA looked into it. NCAA hasn't found anything to deem Phelps guilty, Heeke panicked and fired Phelps anyways, which we will pay for if it can't be proven he was guilty.

You don't panic in the face of allegations. You punish in the face of truth.

If you want to be real honest with yourself you'd understand that diehard fans balked at all the bullshit, because outside of Book it has been all bullshit. Combine that with the fact Arizona was able to convince 4 highly rated guys and their circles that Sean and his staff were clear of every thing and well yeah they're going to think it's even more bullshit. Sean couldn't foresee how worthless his administration would be though.

For #2 are you saying you are confident that Pasternak did not offer $50k to Bowen's dad?

Is there anything beyond the word of Bowen's dad to say that happened?

Why would Pasternak offer himself when the remainder of the offers went through intermediaries? Who does the burden of proof fall to? Is it you to show actual wrongdoing or Choo to prove Pasternak's innocence?

Look this is how the game of recruiting works for smart programs that know how they work:

Arizona nor any of its staff pays players or their families who demand money. That's not their job nor is it even donors' jobs. Arizona doesn't compete against Kansas or UCLA or any non-Nike school in those type of recruitments, they compete against other Nike schools. Their job is to be the top Nike option for a recruit they want. Now if the people running the recruitment are demanding money on the low that's up to the shoe companies to give them that money. Now Arizona doesn't typically recruit players whose circles are demanding money, but shit happens, it's a risk/reward business. Sometimes you move on those players and sometimes you pass on those players even if you put some prior effort into it (Brian Bowen fits this example). This is what you saw with Bill Self talking to the Adidas guys. It was understood Self and KU sure as shit wasn't going to pay those guys, but they were well aware Adidas was going to pay for those guys on their behalf.

Now with that all being said do I think Joe Pasternack is dumb enough to call Dawkins and offer 50k personally to Brian Bowen Sr? Fuck no I don't believe that, because he knows that's not his job and that's not how this works. Book himself knew this when he asked Dawkins for money for "Quinerly's family," after the kid already committed. He was always asking for money for himself, because the coaches nor Arizona nor its donors pay these players.

Shoe companies run this business, not the schools. The schools are the beneficiaries or victims if you will of this business, nothing more, nothing less.

[Olsondogg]

Lol. It is probable that Heeke is emotionally reacting without knowing all the facts. Cause that’s exactly what happened.

[ChooChooCat]

Do we actually know that Phelps has been fired??? as opposed to just being placed on paid leave??

Has the athletic dept. actually issued a PR??

Personally, I believe about 1% of what I read on the internet.

He will be fired and he will sue.

Either way you get what you've been asking for and that's sanctions. I hope you're happy with that outcome.

Good grief. I have never "Wanted NCAA Sanction". What I did suggest last year (and that suggestion is starting to look rather prescient) is that we should have considered parting ways with Miller and self sanctioning (not go to the tourney last year).

I have been of the opinion that Sanctions were a distinct possibility........and you have consistently poo-poo'd that for the past year. Are you now saying that you were wrong and that sanctions are likely?

Well now that Heeke has deemed Phelps guilty before the NCAA could even find a shred of reason to deem him so, yes we will get sanctions, which will very likely 100% match Mizzou's. I poo poo you for relishing in the fact that other fans thinking that because no offense was ever made clear for what we would actually get hit for that there was no clear violation. The coaching staff certainly did an amazing sell job to the fans that it was going to be fine considering the players they landed in the face of it all. It's all for naught though, because we will be sanctioned for Phelps's transgressions, whether he committed any or not. This is the last time I talk to you about sanctions dmj, good for you, you win in the end due to semantics.

Put a sock in it. I have never "relished" anything regarding this whole mess.

And yes Choo, there were "offenses made clear"........Book pleaded guilty to violating NCAA rules. If you can't bring yourself to see that then I can't help you. I find it interesting that you are condemning Heeke (who presumably has FAR more information regarding Phelps and the general FBI mess than you do). Is it possible that you are emotionally over-reacting without knowing all of the facts?

Book pleaded guilty at a federal court to violating NCAA rules? I thought he plead guilty to being a state employee who was taking monetary bribes? You certainly are the expert here. I'm done with you dmj. Talk to somebody else about this.

[PHXCATS]

Simply put, with three of Miller's very recent assistants being implicated in numerous shady dealings and potentially illegal activity on various levels speaks volumes on Millers compliance efficacy.

Diehard fans will balk at any of this talk, but your only kidding yourselves.

Allegations mean nothing.

1. Book is guilty, it's done, but it wasn't meant to benefit Arizona, but rather himself.
2. Pasternack is all hearsay bullshit. He did have a sit down with Dawkins along with Book, but it never went beyond that.
3. Phelps is currently guilty of providing a loan to Keanu Pinder to fly to a friend's wedding in NOLA, which Pinder paid back. That was ridiculously dumb and avoidable. The current thing against Phelps came from an accusation from another school. Arizona & the NCAA looked into it. NCAA hasn't found anything to deem Phelps guilty, Heeke panicked and fired Phelps anyways, which we will pay for if it can't be proven he was guilty.

You don't panic in the face of allegations. You punish in the face of truth.

If you want to be real honest with yourself you'd understand that diehard fans balked at all the bullshit, because outside of Book it has been all bullshit. Combine that with the fact Arizona was able to convince 4 highly rated guys and their circles that Sean and his staff were clear of every thing and well yeah they're going to think it's even more bullshit. Sean couldn't foresee how worthless his administration would be though.

For #2 are you saying you are confident that Pasternak did not offer $50k to Bowen's dad?

Is there anything beyond the word of Bowen's dad to say that happened?

Why would Pasternak offer himself when the remainder of the offers went through intermediaries? Who does the burden of proof fall to? Is it you to show actual wrongdoing or Choo to prove Pasternak's innocence?

I agree that I dont necessarily believe it and there is no other proof but Bowen's dad said it under oath.

[Spaceman Spiff]

Simply put, with three of Miller's very recent assistants being implicated in numerous shady dealings and potentially illegal activity on various levels speaks volumes on Millers compliance efficacy.

Diehard fans will balk at any of this talk, but your only kidding yourselves.

Allegations mean nothing.

1. Book is guilty, it's done, but it wasn't meant to benefit Arizona, but rather himself.
2. Pasternack is all hearsay bullshit. He did have a sit down with Dawkins along with Book, but it never went beyond that.
3. Phelps is currently guilty of providing a loan to Keanu Pinder to fly to a friend's wedding in NOLA, which Pinder paid back. That was ridiculously dumb and avoidable. The current thing against Phelps came from an accusation from another school. Arizona & the NCAA looked into it. NCAA hasn't found anything to deem Phelps guilty, Heeke panicked and fired Phelps anyways, which we will pay for if it can't be proven he was guilty.

You don't panic in the face of allegations. You punish in the face of truth.

If you want to be real honest with yourself you'd understand that diehard fans balked at all the bullshit, because outside of Book it has been all bullshit. Combine that with the fact Arizona was able to convince 4 highly rated guys and their circles that Sean and his staff were clear of every thing and well yeah they're going to think it's even more bullshit. Sean couldn't foresee how worthless his administration would be though.

For #2 are you saying you are confident that Pasternak did not offer $50k to Bowen's dad?

Is there anything beyond the word of Bowen's dad to say that happened?

Why would Pasternak offer himself when the remainder of the offers went through intermediaries? Who does the burden of proof fall to? Is it you to show actual wrongdoing or Choo to prove Pasternak's innocence?

Look this is how the game of recruiting works for smart programs that know how they work:

Arizona nor any of its staff pays players or their families who demand money. That's not their job nor is it even donors' jobs. Arizona doesn't compete against Kansas or UCLA or any non-Nike school in those type of recruitments, they compete against other Nike schools. Their job is to be the top Nike option for a recruit they want. Now if the people running the recruitment are demanding money on the low that's up to the shoe companies to give them that money. Now Arizona doesn't typically recruit players whose circles are demanding money, but shit happens, it's a risk/reward business. Sometimes you move on those players and sometimes you pass on those players even if you put a some prior effort into it (Brian Bowen fits this example). This is what you saw with Bill Self talking to the Adidas guys. It was understood Self and KU sure as shit wasn't going to pay those guys, but they were well aware Adidas was going to pay for those guys on their behalf.

Now with that all being said do I think Joe Pasternack is dumb enough to call Dawkins and offer 50k personally to Brian Bowen Sr? Fuck no I don't believe that, because he knows that's not his job and that's not how this works. Book himself knew this when he asked Dawkins for money for "Quinerly's family," after the kid already committed. He was always asking for money for himself, because the coaches nor Arizona nor its donors pay these players.

Shoe companies run this business, not the schools. The schools are the beneficiaries or victims if you will of this business, nothing more, nothing less.

Oh, I agree with every word you said.

That's why PHXCATS's question is so ridiculous. The idea we should take Bowen Sr.'s word at face value despite it running contrary to everything else described by the FBI or other agency is unsupported and silly.

[ChooChooCat]

Simply put, with three of Miller's very recent assistants being implicated in numerous shady dealings and potentially illegal activity on various levels speaks volumes on Millers compliance efficacy.

Diehard fans will balk at any of this talk, but your only kidding yourselves.

Allegations mean nothing.

1. Book is guilty, it's done, but it wasn't meant to benefit Arizona, but rather himself.
2. Pasternack is all hearsay bullshit. He did have a sit down with Dawkins along with Book, but it never went beyond that.
3. Phelps is currently guilty of providing a loan to Keanu Pinder to fly to a friend's wedding in NOLA, which Pinder paid back. That was ridiculously dumb and avoidable. The current thing against Phelps came from an accusation from another school. Arizona & the NCAA looked into it. NCAA hasn't found anything to deem Phelps guilty, Heeke panicked and fired Phelps anyways, which we will pay for if it can't be proven he was guilty.

You don't panic in the face of allegations. You punish in the face of truth.

If you want to be real honest with yourself you'd understand that diehard fans balked at all the bullshit, because outside of Book it has been all bullshit. Combine that with the fact Arizona was able to convince 4 highly rated guys and their circles that Sean and his staff were clear of every thing and well yeah they're going to think it's even more bullshit. Sean couldn't foresee how worthless his administration would be though.

For #2 are you saying you are confident that Pasternak did not offer $50k to Bowen's dad?

Is there anything beyond the word of Bowen's dad to say that happened?

Why would Pasternak offer himself when the remainder of the offers went through intermediaries? Who does the burden of proof fall to? Is it you to show actual wrongdoing or Choo to prove Pasternak's innocence?

I agree that I dont necessarily believe it and there is no other proof but Bowen's dad said it under oath.

Bowen's dad said Dawkins told him Pasternack said that not that Pasternack told Bowen's dad that himself. If you can't see the issue with that you're beyond anyone's help here.

[Longhorned]

You guys, this isn't Heeke. Phelps is being fired for academic fraud. That's a university issue whether or not everyone is aware of it yet.

[dmjcat]

He will be fired and he will sue.

Either way you get what you've been asking for and that's sanctions. I hope you're happy with that outcome.[/quote]

Good grief. I have never "Wanted NCAA Sanction". What I did suggest last year (and that suggestion is starting to look rather prescient) is that we should have considered parting ways with Miller and self sanctioning (not go to the tourney last year).

I have been of the opinion that Sanctions were a distinct possibility........and you have consistently poo-poo'd that for the past year. Are you now saying that you were wrong and that sanctions are likely?[/quote]

Well now that Heeke has deemed Phelps guilty before the NCAA could even find a shred of reason to deem him so, yes we will get sanctions, which will very likely 100% match Mizzou's. I poo poo you for relishing in the fact that other fans thinking that because no offense was ever made clear for what we would actually get hit for that there was no clear violation. The coaching staff certainly did an amazing sell job to the fans that it was going to be fine considering the players they landed in the face of it all. It's all for naught though, because we will be sanctioned for Phelps's transgressions, whether he committed any or not. This is the last time I talk to you about sanctions dmj, good for you, you win in the end due to semantics.[/quote]

Put a sock in it. I have never "relished" anything regarding this whole mess.

And yes Choo, there were "offenses made clear"........Book pleaded guilty to violating NCAA rules. If you can't bring yourself to see that then I can't help you. I find it interesting that you are condemning Heeke (who presumably has FAR more information regarding Phelps and the general FBI mess than you do). Is it possible that you are emotionally over-reacting without knowing all of the facts?[/quote]

Book pleaded guilty at a federal court to violating NCAA rules? I thought he plead guilty to being a state employee who was taking monetary bribes? You certainly are the expert here. I'm done with you dmj. Talk to somebody else about this.[/quote]

Steering players to Agents (and taking money for it) IS an NCAA violation.........would you like me to provide a link to the regulation (again)???

[ChooChooCat]

Oh, I agree with every word you said.

That's why PHXCATS's question is so ridiculous. The idea we should take Bowen Sr.'s word at face value despite it running contrary to everything else described by the FBI or other agency is unsupported and silly.

I believe Brian Bowen Sr. in that Dawkins told him that. I don't doubt that all, however, I doubt with every fiber in my being that Joe Pasternack ever uttered those words to Christian Dawkins.

[ChooChooCat]

You guys, this isn't Heeke. Phelps is being fired for academic fraud. That's a university issue whether or not everyone is aware of it yet.

Acting on it before there's any proof is absolutely Heeke.

[Olsondogg]

You guys, this isn't Heeke. Phelps is being fired for academic fraud. That's a university issue whether or not everyone is aware of it yet.

The ncaa has not said there’s any academic fraud. Heeke moves before anything at all was concluded.

[CalStateTempe]

Then I should take my masters of public health degree from UNC down off the office wall and take a steamy dump on it for that institutions views on online courses.

Which is exactly that heeke is doing to UofA bb regarding this Phelps issue.

[dmjcat]

You guys, this isn't Heeke. Phelps is being fired for academic fraud. That's a university issue whether or not everyone is aware of it yet.

Acting on it before there's any proof is absolutely Heeke.

And exactly how do you know there is "No proof"??? Do you have access to all the information Heeke has??? Your credibility is certainly strained on this one. Perhaps you should let this play out and find out all of the facts before you condemn Heeke.

[Olsondogg]

Then I should take my masters of public health degree from UNC down off the office wall and take a steamy dump on it for that institutions views on online courses.

Which is exactly that heeke is doing to UofA bb regarding this Phelps issue.

Unc backed their program, didn’t react or self sanction and what happened?

Props to unc and the multitude of schools that don’t bow to fear of a corrupt organization

[Alieberman]

i think you are all over-reacting here.

Nothing bad ever happens to Arizona Athletics.

We are a charmed program.

[PHXCATS]

I am not saying I believe it to be true, I am simply saying I am a little concerned since Bowen said it under oath.

If Dawkins lied to Bowen and Bowen just said what he was told, which he very well could be the case, then that's another thing that shouldn't be acted on until more is proved

[Olsondogg]

You guys, this isn't Heeke. Phelps is being fired for academic fraud. That's a university issue whether or not everyone is aware of it yet.

Acting on it before there's any proof is absolutely Heeke.

And exactly how do you know there is "No proof"??? Do you have access to all the information Heeke has??? Your credibility is certainly strained on this one. Perhaps you should let this play out and find out all of the facts before you condemn Heeke.

So now he has more info than the governing body of college athletics? Something he knows suddenly that his own investigation he paid for didn’t find?

Dude, is he your dad?