Allonzo Trier

[Spaceman Spiff]

Allonzo might be the most underappreciated Arizona player ever. He wasn't perfect here, but he was a tremendously productive player. He consistently wanted the ball in big moments, so he became a lightning rod.

People who ducked those big moments got off easier than Zo. I criticized him at times, and he had his issues, but I haven't seen a player produce like he did and get so little respect here.

[Chicat]

Allonzo might be the most underappreciated Arizona player ever. He wasn't perfect here, but he was a tremendously productive player. He consistently wanted the ball in big moments, so he became a lightning rod.

People who ducked those big moments got off easier than Zo. I criticized him at times, and he had his issues, but I haven't seen a player produce like he did and get so little respect here.

Amen.

Doesn’t the term “Hero” by its very definition mean that Trier did everything possible himself to win games? This year we sure could have used some goddamn heroics...

[NYCat]

Allonzo might be the most underappreciated Arizona player ever. He wasn't perfect here, but he was a tremendously productive player. He consistently wanted the ball in big moments, so he became a lightning rod.

People who ducked those big moments got off easier than Zo. I criticized him at times, and he had his issues, but I haven't seen a player produce like he did and get so little respect here.

He didn't win. It's that simple, and unfortunate because if he had a legitimate PG alongside him in the backcourt, the Trier teams could've been amazing. Unfortunately because he didn't, he lost in the round of 64 to Wichita State, Sweet 16 to Xavier and Round of 64 to Buffalo.

[Spaceman Spiff]

Allonzo might be the most underappreciated Arizona player ever. He wasn't perfect here, but he was a tremendously productive player. He consistently wanted the ball in big moments, so he became a lightning rod.

People who ducked those big moments got off easier than Zo. I criticized him at times, and he had his issues, but I haven't seen a player produce like he did and get so little respect here.

He didn't win. It's that simple, and unfortunate because if he had a legitimate PG alongside him in the backcourt, the Trier teams could've been amazing. Unfortunately because he didn't, he lost in the round of 64 to Wichita State, Sweet 16 to Xavier and Round of 64 to Buffalo.

That's sort of it for me. Trier took the Xavier game on himself and people dog him because the final shot missed. PJC disappeared and no one really ever mentions it. Rawle did too, but I give him more of a pass with the broken finger.

If Trier's teams won the NC, people would look at him like a better version of Miles Simon. The downside of taking the challenge is you take the blame. I can respect that more than people who avoided the challenge.

[midnightx]

Allonzo might be the most underappreciated Arizona player ever. He wasn't perfect here, but he was a tremendously productive player. He consistently wanted the ball in big moments, so he became a lightning rod.

People who ducked those big moments got off easier than Zo. I criticized him at times, and he had his issues, but I haven't seen a player produce like he did and get so little respect here.

He didn't win. It's that simple, and unfortunate because if he had a legitimate PG alongside him in the backcourt, the Trier teams could've been amazing. Unfortunately because he didn't, he lost in the round of 64 to Wichita State, Sweet 16 to Xavier and Round of 64 to Buffalo.

That's sort of it for me. Trier took the Xavier game on himself and people dog him because the final shot missed. PJC disappeared and no one really ever mentions it. Rawle did too, but I give him more of a pass with the broken finger.

If Trier's teams won the NC, people would look at him like a better version of Miles Simon. The downside of taking the challenge is you take the blame. I can respect that more than people who avoided the challenge.

Perhaps, but Trier never did what Simon did throughout their respective careers. Simon was a dynamic playmaker, defender, and finisher. Trier had talent and showed flashes of greatness, but never seemed to have that "it" quality that Simon did. Obviously Simon played with better guard talent.

[Merkin]

Allonzo might be the most underappreciated Arizona player ever. He wasn't perfect here, but he was a tremendously productive player. He consistently wanted the ball in big moments, so he became a lightning rod.

People who ducked those big moments got off easier than Zo. I criticized him at times, and he had his issues, but I haven't seen a player produce like he did and get so little respect here.

He didn't win. It's that simple, and unfortunate because if he had a legitimate PG alongside him in the backcourt, the Trier teams could've been amazing. Unfortunately because he didn't, he lost in the round of 64 to Wichita State, Sweet 16 to Xavier and Round of 64 to Buffalo.

That's sort of it for me. Trier took the Xavier game on himself and people dog him because the final shot missed. PJC disappeared and no one really ever mentions it. Rawle did too, but I give him more of a pass with the broken finger.

If Trier's teams won the NC, people would look at him like a better version of Miles Simon. The downside of taking the challenge is you take the blame. I can respect that more than people who avoided the challenge.

Can't forget Lauri Markkanen who didn't take a shot in the last 11 minutes v. Xavier. Passed the ball the second he received it.

[legallykenny]

Allonzo might be the most underappreciated Arizona player ever. He wasn't perfect here, but he was a tremendously productive player. He consistently wanted the ball in big moments, so he became a lightning rod.

People who ducked those big moments got off easier than Zo. I criticized him at times, and he had his issues, but I haven't seen a player produce like he did and get so little respect here.

He didn't win. It's that simple, and unfortunate because if he had a legitimate PG alongside him in the backcourt, the Trier teams could've been amazing. Unfortunately because he didn't, he lost in the round of 64 to Wichita State, Sweet 16 to Xavier and Round of 64 to Buffalo.

That's sort of it for me. Trier took the Xavier game on himself and people dog him because the final shot missed. PJC disappeared and no one really ever mentions it. Rawle did too, but I give him more of a pass with the broken finger.

If Trier's teams won the NC, people would look at him like a better version of Miles Simon. The downside of taking the challenge is you take the blame. I can respect that more than people who avoided the challenge.

Perhaps, but Trier never did what Simon did throughout their respective careers. Simon was a dynamic playmaker, defender, and finisher. Trier had talent and showed flashes of greatness, but never seemed to have that "it" quality that Simon did. Obviously Simon played with better guard talent.

Yeah, if Trier went 30-24-30 in an EE-FF-NC streak, we might think of him a bit differently.
Or if he hit a 65 foot buzzer beater over a top-5 team to win Lute's (or Sean's) 500th win.

Did PJC disappear any more than Michael Dickerson did in big games? I suppose Dickerson was still at least an elite college perimeter defender whereas PJC might be one of the worst in the program's history.

[YoDeFoe]

My favorite topic of conversation.

Trier's most glaring fault at Arizona was his seeming inability to pass the ball on the fast break. He had a 2:1 A:TO... except on the fast break where he was negative. It's legitimately a mental problem (or maybe he's just never practiced it).

I genuinely think that if he fixed that, a lot of the hero ball complaints would fall away. He was so wildly efficient and productive (a once in a decade player for Arizona)... but you see him take it to the rim when he's got Rawle running a two on one and "why won't he pass it" is what sticks in our minds.

[Chicat]

My favorite topic of conversation.

Trier's most glaring fault at Arizona was his seeming inability to pass the ball on the fast break. He had a 2:1 A:TO... except on the fast break where he was negative. It's legitimately a mental problem (or maybe he's just never practiced it).

I genuinely think that if he fixed that, a lot of the hero ball complaints would fall away. He was so wildly efficient and productive (a once in a decade player for Arizona)... but you see him take it to the rim when he's got Rawle running a two on one and "why won't he pass it" is what sticks in our minds.

Shitty peripheral vision and spatial awareness?

[Spaceman Spiff]

Allonzo might be the most underappreciated Arizona player ever. He wasn't perfect here, but he was a tremendously productive player. He consistently wanted the ball in big moments, so he became a lightning rod.

People who ducked those big moments got off easier than Zo. I criticized him at times, and he had his issues, but I haven't seen a player produce like he did and get so little respect here.

He didn't win. It's that simple, and unfortunate because if he had a legitimate PG alongside him in the backcourt, the Trier teams could've been amazing. Unfortunately because he didn't, he lost in the round of 64 to Wichita State, Sweet 16 to Xavier and Round of 64 to Buffalo.

That's sort of it for me. Trier took the Xavier game on himself and people dog him because the final shot missed. PJC disappeared and no one really ever mentions it. Rawle did too, but I give him more of a pass with the broken finger.

If Trier's teams won the NC, people would look at him like a better version of Miles Simon. The downside of taking the challenge is you take the blame. I can respect that more than people who avoided the challenge.

Perhaps, but Trier never did what Simon did throughout their respective careers. Simon was a dynamic playmaker, defender, and finisher. Trier had talent and showed flashes of greatness, but never seemed to have that "it" quality that Simon did. Obviously Simon played with better guard talent.

I don't know. I was only 16-17 to watch Simon, but I thought he was about the same defender as Trier. Competent, but not a standout, lockdown guy.

Trier was a little more efficient as a scorer, Simon a bit better passer. Simon had an easier time distributing to guys like Bibby and Dickerson, as well as having big timers like that to take the focus off him.

[dirtbags]

the hero ball stuff is no surprise yeah, but to be fair zo was doing a pretty good job of sharing the ball during his time here, to the point where, if i remember correctly, CSM told him to be more assertive on offense. can't remember if it was before or after his injury.

[midnightx]

Allonzo might be the most underappreciated Arizona player ever. He wasn't perfect here, but he was a tremendously productive player. He consistently wanted the ball in big moments, so he became a lightning rod.

People who ducked those big moments got off easier than Zo. I criticized him at times, and he had his issues, but I haven't seen a player produce like he did and get so little respect here.

He didn't win. It's that simple, and unfortunate because if he had a legitimate PG alongside him in the backcourt, the Trier teams could've been amazing. Unfortunately because he didn't, he lost in the round of 64 to Wichita State, Sweet 16 to Xavier and Round of 64 to Buffalo.

That's sort of it for me. Trier took the Xavier game on himself and people dog him because the final shot missed. PJC disappeared and no one really ever mentions it. Rawle did too, but I give him more of a pass with the broken finger.

If Trier's teams won the NC, people would look at him like a better version of Miles Simon. The downside of taking the challenge is you take the blame. I can respect that more than people who avoided the challenge.

Perhaps, but Trier never did what Simon did throughout their respective careers. Simon was a dynamic playmaker, defender, and finisher. Trier had talent and showed flashes of greatness, but never seemed to have that "it" quality that Simon did. Obviously Simon played with better guard talent.

Yeah, if Trier went 30-24-30 in an EE-FF-NC streak, we might think of him a bit differently.
Or if he hit a 65 foot buzzer beater over a top-5 team to win Lute's (or Sean's) 500th win.

Did PJC disappear any more than Michael Dickerson did in big games? I suppose Dickerson was still at least an elite college perimeter defender whereas PJC might be one of the worst in the program's history.

In fairness to Dickerson, he did hold the 96/97 team together in terms of scoring during most the Simon suspension.

[legallykenny]

That's sort of it for me. Trier took the Xavier game on himself and people dog him because the final shot missed. PJC disappeared and no one really ever mentions it. Rawle did too, but I give him more of a pass with the broken finger.

If Trier's teams won the NC, people would look at him like a better version of Miles Simon. The downside of taking the challenge is you take the blame. I can respect that more than people who avoided the challenge.

Perhaps, but Trier never did what Simon did throughout their respective careers. Simon was a dynamic playmaker, defender, and finisher. Trier had talent and showed flashes of greatness, but never seemed to have that "it" quality that Simon did. Obviously Simon played with better guard talent.

Yeah, if Trier went 30-24-30 in an EE-FF-NC streak, we might think of him a bit differently.
Or if he hit a 65 foot buzzer beater over a top-5 team to win Lute's (or Sean's) 500th win.

Did PJC disappear any more than Michael Dickerson did in big games? I suppose Dickerson was still at least an elite college perimeter defender whereas PJC might be one of the worst in the program's history.

In fairness to Dickerson, he did hold the 96/97 team together in terms of scoring during most the Simon suspension.

Dickerson was a terrific player. I think he would've had a really really solid NBA career if not for the injuries and weed.
But his performance in the FF was completely inexplicable. Though I recall he did defend Mercer well.

[Postmaster]

Yeah he was all over Mercer. And that is what he was supposed to do.
After Simon came back, it took the team a while to reestablish roles.
Dickerson let his offense take a back seat to Simon’s.


My only issue with Trier was that at times he seemed to settle for a fall away 3 instead of getting 10 feet closer and taking a better shot.

I always assumed he and Alkins did not get along and that’s why he never passed to him.

[EastCoastCat]

Let's also not forget Trier drew a ton of fouls to get some much needed easy points. Haven't seen much of that lately.

You don't get to the line that often without a bit of hero ball in you.

[TucsonClip]

Let's also not forget Trier drew a ton of fouls to get some much needed easy points. Haven't seen much of that lately.

You don't get to the line that often without a bit of hero ball in you.

Sure, you can look at it that way. To me, drawing fouls is a skill. One that is extremely important, especially in Miller's offense.

[zonagrad]

My biggest complaint about Trier is that ball movement suffered when he took possession. I won't argue that he's a gifted player and can score the ball. But his style isn't conducive to making other players better. It's part of the reason we lost games in the Bahamas and against Buffalo.
If anyone is going to dominate the ball, it's best to be a guy who is capable of creating his own shots and creating shots for others. Trier was never good at the latter.

[YoDeFoe]

My biggest complaint about Trier is that ball movement suffered when he took possession. I won't argue that he's a gifted player and can score the ball. But his style isn't conducive to making other players better. It's part of the reason we lost games in the Bahamas and against Buffalo.
If anyone is going to dominate the ball, it's best to be a guy who is capable of creating his own shots and creating shots for others. Trier was never good at the latter.

Trier avg'd a 1.6 A:TO his final two seasons. I thought he did a good job of creating for others in his last season and was also very good at the same off the pick and roll with Markkanen the year prior. Having a serviceable three point shooting forward in his final season likely would have bolstered his drive and kick assists. Having better floor spacing without two seven footers on the floor likely would have done the same for him.

In his final two seasons, Trier was the best passer on the team outside of PJC while also being one of the most efficient scorers in college basketball. We give him waaaayyyy too much shit.

[YoDeFoe]

I'm going to start a Rawle thread that's going to break some hearts cause he has a nice smile and a fun chuckle.

[TucsonClip]

My biggest complaint about Trier is that ball movement suffered when he took possession. I won't argue that he's a gifted player and can score the ball. But his style isn't conducive to making other players better. It's part of the reason we lost games in the Bahamas and against Buffalo.
If anyone is going to dominate the ball, it's best to be a guy who is capable of creating his own shots and creating shots for others. Trier was never good at the latter.

Look, Trier isnt my ideal archetype of a guard. However, and ive posted this ad nauseum, he is necessary in Miller's offense. Yes, I do agree that the ball stuck far too often with him, and it was the number one item I listed he needs to work on to be successful at the next level. That said, when he had the ball, much more often than not, he made good things happen.

Finally, to my eyes, and I could be wrong, but it never appeared he had an issue feeding people as or more talented than him. He was a willing passer to Lauri and Ayton. The rest... eh...

All that said, I think he is the type of player Miller needs to drive his offense. I think he would have been even more dynamic with an actual lead guard next to him, but Miller needs someone who can create and score efficiently off the bounce.

[CalStateTempe]

What is one good highlight reel-taking over the game-memory that you have of trier?

Because I have none.

Derrick Williams, Nick Johnson, Stanley Johnson, Aaron Gordon, Markennen, Ayton, TJ have signature games you could point to where their mastery of the game led to a crucial win.

Hell I can even point games where Dusan and Radenovic took over, dominating the other team in a key win. Obviously not as talented but in those moments, memorable play.

Trier is Marcus Williams with a better pro career. Glorified role player.

He did tweet alot.

[YoDeFoe]

Trier is Marcus Williams with a better pro career. Glorified role player.

I will fight you.

To answer your question: the 2017 Pac-12 title game over Oregon. Trier carried us to the win over a team that had beaten us badly the previous three outings and that went on to make the FF (with three eventual NBA players). All time great Trier game and a great win for the program.

Trier would continue that success through the NCAA tournament. The rest of the team, not so much.

[CalStateTempe]

YDF, you know i appreciate your takes on cats bb and i seriously thank you for this tip.

I’ll go rewatch it.

[Newportcat]

Trier is Marcus Williams with a better pro career. Glorified role player.

I will fight you.

To answer your question: the 2017 Pac-12 title game over Oregon. Trier carried us to the win over a team that had beaten us badly the previous three outings and that went on to make the FF (with three eventual NBA players). All time great Trier game and a great win for the program.

Trier would continue that success through the NCAA tournament. The rest of the team, not so much.

I will re-watch highlights from that game too as just not sticking to me like even Radenovic against Stanford his senior year sticks with me.

I agree with a lot of what CST says here

He to me is an enigma wrapped in a mystery of a player. Some love him, some hate him.

I love advanced stats but Trier is one of those players where it just seems tough to trust them. Like all I ever remember was the ball being stuck to his hands.

[Newportcat]

I'm going to start a Rawle thread that's going to break some hearts cause he has a nice smile and a fun chuckle.

I do think this is very true in terms of why someone like Dusan or TJ or Rondae or Rawle (maybe more just after his freshmen year) I have much more of an infinity for then Trier.

[YoDeFoe]

YDF, you know i appreciate your takes on cats bb and i seriously thank you for this tip.

I’ll go rewatch it.

I know buddy, I'm messing with you. Trier holds a soft spot in my heart (beyond reason sometimes, as you and others likely well know). Maybe because was singularly aggressive at a time when the rest of the team was either too soft or too unskilled to "make a fucking play."

Edit: here a fun way to burn 40 min... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QYZcm1dLlhk" target="_blank

[U.P. Zona Fan]

There was also the game at ucla, it was the game he came back from suspension, that is another good Trier game.

[TucsonClip]

I get people didnt like watching him, but the guy was top five all season in power conferences in high usage scoring efficiency as a junior. Additionally, dude led the conference in TS%, was third in eFG%, despite being 7th in FTA and 15th! in USG%. BALL HOG /s

A defining moment from Trier? Well, if he had a freaking PG or some defense around him, you would likely have at least one in March.

[NYCat]

There was also the game at ucla, it was the game he came back from suspension, that is another good Trier game.

That was the Kobi game imo

https://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/bo ... -ucla.html" target="_blank

That was the game that convinced me that Kobi should be playing because he was dynamic. Who cared that he couldn't/wouldn't defend. You could've started a 3 guard lineup with Allen & Trier. The thing with Rawle was he was a SF, but he was 6'4 and didnt have a particular impressive wingspan. Luguentz Dort is what I was hoping Rawle was, but he wasn't.

To me the problem with Trier, aside from the winning issue stated above, was that he was efficient scorer and his efficiency isn't particularly exciting to watch. Harden (boring to watch) is similar in that regard. He wasn't particularly athletic, or a dunker, or a sharpshooter, or didn't hit go all Kobe Bryant etc etc. Ayton imo faced a similar thing his first season in the NBA, incredibly efficient and a lot of people didn't think he was impressive.

[U.P. Zona Fan]

There was also the game at ucla, it was the game he came back from suspension, that is another good Trier game.

That was the Kobi game imo

https://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/bo ... -ucla.html" target="_blank

That was the game that convinced me that Kobi should be playing because he was dynamic. Who cared that he couldn't/wouldn't defend. You could've started a 3 guard lineup with Allen & Trier. The thing with Rawle was he was a SF, but he was 6'4 and didnt have a particular impressive wingspan. Luguentz Dort is what I was hoping Rawle was, but he wasn't.

To me the problem with Trier, aside from the winning issue stated above, was that he was efficient scorer and his efficiency isn't particularly exciting to watch. Harden (boring to watch) is similar in that regard. He wasn't particularly athletic, or a dunker, or a sharpshooter, or didn't hit go all Kobe Bryant etc etc. Ayton imo faced a similar thing his first season in the NBA, incredibly efficient and a lot of people didn't think he was impressive.

Ah yes, my bad that was the kobi game.

[zonagrad]

I don't think you need to either love or hate Trier. He was a great player at Arizona. His off court issues added a lot of unnecessary drama and probably didn't make things any easier the last two years he was here. He was a key player for a team that won two straight conference tournament titles. To me, that's a big deal. He led Arizona to the regular season conference title as well in '18. Again, that's a big deal.

Unfortunately, his last game certainly wasn't his best. Nor was his performance in the final two minutes against Xavier. Coaches and players are judged on their NCAA tourney performances. A bad tournament game can negate a great 30 game regular season. And a great game or two in the tourney can make a star out of an ordinary player. That's just the way it is.

I'd be interested in what's Trier's teammates at Arizona think about him: his leadership, his ability to make teammates better. His selfishness or unselfishness.

[YoDeFoe]

You’re both right. Tried came back in that UCLA game and was dunking on dudes and ripping jumpers. Kobi did the most heavy lifting but Trier looked like an uncaged animal.

[StickItInTheyFace]

Trier put this out a couple days ago but I figured I'd share. I'm still shocked no one picked him up in the draft. No matter what anyone says about his time at Arizona, I don't think anyone who watched him had a doubt that his game was much more suited for the NBA.

[YoDeFoe]

Trier should have been an All American and I will fight anyone who says differently. (I repeat this every three months for solidarity).

[Longhorned]

So if you were to magically take Trier as the NBA player he is today, and insert him into next year's Arizona team in place of Brandon Williams, would he be an unstoppable force against college teams by virtue of improvements in rise to the highest level of basketball on the planet? Or, with respect to his NBA game, would his effectiveness come down a notch because of the confines of the college game?

[Spaceman Spiff]

So if you were to magically take Trier as the NBA player he is today, and insert him into next year's Arizona team in place of Brandon Williams, would he be an unstoppable force against college teams by virtue of improvements in rise to the highest level of basketball on the planet? Or, with respect to his NBA game, would his effectiveness come down a notch because of the confines of the college game?

Based on past luck, the sarm levels in his urine would rise a teeny bit again and he'd miss most of the season.

[Longhorned]

[YoDeFoe]

Knicks picked up Trier's $3.5M team option for 2019-20. Makes him better paid than the 10th pick in his draft class (Mikal Bridges).

At the end of his last season at Arizona, I was emphatic that Trier should have been awarded the Jerry West Award as the best SG in the nation. After the "PED flare-up" kept him out late in the season, Trier was yanked from the list.

19 shooting guards were eventually taken in the NBA draft. Trier wasn't one of them. He's now paid more than any of them.

[StickItInTheyFace]

Knicks picked up Trier's $3.5M team option for 2019-20. Makes him better paid than the 10th pick in his draft class (Mikal Bridges).

At the end of his last season at Arizona, I was emphatic that Trier should have been awarded the Jerry West Award as the best SG in the nation. After the "PED flare-up" kept him out late in the season, Trier was yanked from the list.

19 shooting guards were eventually taken in the NBA draft. Trier wasn't one of them. He's now paid more than any of them.

Ahhhh so that's what these other idiot fans are meaning when they say our players are getting paid.

[YoDeFoe]

Knicks picked up Trier's $3.5M team option for 2019-20. Makes him better paid than the 10th pick in his draft class (Mikal Bridges).

At the end of his last season at Arizona, I was emphatic that Trier should have been awarded the Jerry West Award as the best SG in the nation. After the "PED flare-up" kept him out late in the season, Trier was yanked from the list.

19 shooting guards were eventually taken in the NBA draft. Trier wasn't one of them. He's now paid more than any of them.

Ahhhh so that's what these other idiot fans are meaning when they say our players are getting paid.