Bribery Scandal - FBI Probe - Book Richardson Involved

[zonagrad]

Someone help me out on this: When you've been caught on a wire tap involving another person of interest, doesn't the FBI have a certain amount of time to formally inform you that you've been caught on a warranted wire tap?

yes - and they did inform w/in that required time

And if so, wouldn't Miller know exactly what conversation he was recorded?

yes, in June, and why it was recorded too.

And knowing that, Miller could confidently and defiantly refute media reports that he knew were completely false?

yes

but bigger, when he was notified of the recording he knew more were coming, Book had not been made aware up to this point, not till the end of August.

So Miller knew he was being recorded by the Feds during some of his conversations with Dawkins? Specifically, the conversations that came after June?

Must've been a helluva few months for Miller before the Feds closed in on Book. And did Miller notify the Administration about the shit storm coming down the pike?

[CatFanOneMil]

There are only a handful of possibilities here:

1. Miller is dirty, but there is no proof.
2. Miller is dirty and there is proof.
3. Miller is clean and there is no proof.
4. Miller is clean and there is proof.

And here is what we know from the "authorities"...

The University stands behind Miller, they have not let him go and have publicly declared support for him.

The FBI has not charged Miller with anything, yet we know they were at his house when this stuff broke loose the day Book got arrested.

As far as the public record goes there is no proof that Miller has violated ANY laws or broken any NCAA rules...no evidence to these issues has been provided by ANYONE.

So we can eliminate #2...if Miller is dirty there is no proof.

None. Nada. Zilch. It would have come out by now and he would have been charged, the Feds would have informed the UA and they would have suspended him, NONE of that happened.

So that leaves us with #1, #3, and #4 or variations of those...dirty NO PROOF, clean NO PROOF, clean with PROOF...

The media keeps pushing the #1, #2 scenario because its easy...but it is false...the evidence we have at this point suggest that there is no proof in existence that Miller bribed/broke NCAA rules, or paid any players because all of those would have been handled by the FBI and handed over to the Uni or NCAA...and we know both Miller and Ayton and his family were interviewed by the FBI, by the University lawyers and all parties were cleared.

Dirty no Proof and Clean no Proof are basically the same...both are possible because there is no evidence to disprove either...EXCEPT the behavior of those investigating...which would include the high powered lawyers by the University and the FUCKING FBI...who MADE the damn wiretaps to begin with.

Think it through...

The FBI hears Dawkins say that he and Miller talk and he says Miller is playing the game of paying players to come to the UA...this is BEFORE Miller knows anything about the wiretaps or BOOk or anything breaks loose...they hear this way back on a boat in June (IIRC)...they obviously would investigate Miller to see if Dawkins is telling them the truth, he's a FUCKING HEAD COACH this would be BIG...and yet...here we are with no charges against him and the FBI basically saying he is not being charged...at fucking all...not only that they DON'T WANT HIM TO TESTIFY...which is exactly the opposite of what you would do if you thought he was guilty, you'd want to get him on the stand and get him on record...but they asked the judge to keep Miller out of this.

Why, why would you keep him from testifying? If he's innocent his testimony helps show dawkins is a liar...my theory is the only recorded conversation with Miller is one that Dawkins is trying to misconstrue and they already have evidence to contradict Dawkins argument...Dawkins probably said something like "I can take care of your guys" and Miller probably responded "I take care of my own guys, don't call me again"...

No matter how you slice it the FBI is demonstrating they believe Miller is innocent of any of this...else they would charge him...the evidence MUST exist that he is innocent and there is proof...in which case he either knew it was coming and played the cards he needed or basically is just an honest coach with a major attitude...

Since the University is standing behind him AFTER investigating him, I am pretty well convinced he was privy to Book going down or has his house in order...he probably has tapes of his own...no one has ever suggested that yet.

[Beachcat97]

Epic post, CFOM. Epic.

[Beachcat97]

Has Schlabach been asked to clear out his desk/cubicle yet? I'd really like an ETA on that.

[TheGreatCatsby]

So a guy testifies as to his interpretations of a conversation he had with a convicted felon selling his services on a yacht in Miami, a conversation where the felon was speculating Sean "has to know" what is going on, yet neither has any facts or evidence to support this claim. It's like we're now assuming Dawkins knows how Sean Miller runs his basketball program and/or life. He also testifies about Dawkins referencing "Miller would talk on the phone about illegally recruiting players". Anyone have any proof of those phone calls where Miller would be doing this? Who's to say he isn't making that all up in that conversation to come across as in the know and self important?

Dawkins can literally say anything he wants to undercover agents, name any names he wants, doesn't mean anything. Might as well substitute the words "Sean Miller" from Dawkins' mouth and replace with "Mother Theresa" or any other human on the planet and it makes no difference. This trial pretty much what I thought it would be, mindless smearing of Miller and media reporting Dawkins speculations as truth.

[Olsondogg]

I am confused as to why the gov't played the tape from June 6 today, unless it is to set-up Dawkins further for lying.

[NYCat]

I am confused as to why the gov't played the tape from June 6 today, unless it is to set-up Dawkins further for lying.

Would be sweet to catch him lying during trial. About the closest thing to an exoneration Miller/Arizona could get, at worst the presumption of innocence because Dawkins is a known liar.

[CatFanOneMil]

I am confused as to why the gov't played the tape from June 6 today, unless it is to set-up Dawkins further for lying.

It's the most incriminating evidence they have the defendant saying with his own mouth and his own words that he is crooked...

This trial is NOT about college basketball...it is about interstate bribery/money laundering/tax evasion/conspiracy/whatever...it is about a hundred things OTHER than college basketball because paying players to go play for a University is not against a federal law and this is a federal case...it is about breaking interstate commerce laws and wire fraud.

They basically just played a tape of guy admitting he was actively doing what they are charging him with.

Dawkins and his lawyers want to make it about something else because the evidence convicts him right on its face value...they have no fucking defense to his admission on tape...

So make it about college BB and pay-to-play and make Dawkins just an agent of huge conspiracy that is rampant across all of the USA hidden in plain sight...everyone knows about it, no one will admit it, except for the martyr Dawkins who at best was set up by the FBI...

It is actually the only defense they have since he is on tape admitting he did it...muddy the waters, ruin the jury pool get a mistrial...

My daughter is a Prosecuting DA... she actually loses cases this way because if you can convince the jury that its the bad 'ol gubernment that is setting up people and the laws are unfair you can actually get a jury to either declare a mistrial (hung jury) or not convict, or lessen the sentence when they have the power to...she has lost cases where people were caught with bales of pot and $40k cash with glocks on the coffee table because jury people disagreed with pot being illegal...never mind they agreed to uphold the law when they were selected...a jury of your peers can be a very stupid thing.

This is why his defense is playing to the media and Miller testifying...it plays the sympathy card and reinforces everyones suspicion that coaches everywhere pay players to come to school...if they get enough sympathy they MIGHT get a hung jury because lets face it...about 75% of the people ON THIS BOARD ALONE believe every coach does this stuff...that narrative becomes the defense...there is no other defense.

If you were in the jury and the defense said they had proof that coaches everywhere did this stuff but the mean ol judge and the government would not let you play it, wouldn't you now have a REASONABLE DOUBT?

Jury hung. Mistrial.

[Olsondogg]

I am confused as to why the gov't played the tape from June 6 today, unless it is to set-up Dawkins further for lying.

It's the most incriminating evidence they have the defendant saying with his own mouth and his own words that he is crooked...

This trial is NOT about college basketball...it is about interstate bribery/money laundering/tax evasion/conspiracy/whatever...it is about a hundred things OTHER than college basketball because paying players to go play for a University is not against a federal law and this is a federal case...it is about breaking interstate commerce laws and wire fraud.

They basically just played a tape of guy admitting he was actively doing what they are charging him with.

Dawkins and his lawyers want to make it about something else because the evidence convicts him right on its face value...they have no fucking defense to his admission on tape...

So make it about college BB and pay-to-play and make Dawkins just an agent of huge conspiracy that is rampant across all of the USA hidden in plain sight...everyone knows about it, no one will admit it, except for the martyr Dawkins who at best was set up by the FBI...

It is actually the only defense they have since he is on tape admitting he did it...muddy the waters, ruin the jury pool get a mistrial...

My daughter is a Prosecuting DA... she actually loses cases this way because if you can convince the jury that its the bad 'ol gubernment that is setting up people and the laws are unfair you can actually get a jury to either declare a mistrial (hung jury) or not convict, or lessen the sentence when they have the power to...she has lost cases where people were caught with bales of pot and $40k cash with glocks on the coffee table because jury people disagreed with pot being illegal...never mind they agreed to uphold the law when they were selected...a jury of your peers can be a very stupid thing.

Right, but the gov't opened up the door again on having Miller testify, which they don't want for the very reasons you laid out. It seems like a gamble to play that tape just to get the jury to hear him admit it.

[CatFanOneMil]

I think from the beginning the Judge has made it clear that this would not be about college basketball-pay-to-play...the Judge agreed with the Prosecutors and has ordered to quash Millers subpoena...going back to that will just piss the Judge off...its not as big a gamble as it seems getting a Judge to overturn his own ruling is pissing in the wind...you might relieve yourself but the stench stays on you the whole trial.

The defense can appeal all they want, the prosecutors will need to make the case that it is irrelevant to the charges or else they face a mistrial...my feeling is they have other tapes that exonerate Miller, probably when they interviewed him...these other tapes would not be classified as "evidence" that would be subject to discovery since Miller is not being charged...

Lets not forget the FBI also has EVERYONES phone records...if Dawkins is claiming he and Miller talked many times phone records could quite easily disprove that...thus rendering his entire argument moot.

[Olsondogg]

The judge did say that the question of Miller testifying was up for "reconsideration" at the start of the trial.

[CatFanOneMil]

The judge did say that the question of Miller testifying was up for "reconsideration" at the start of the trial.

I am quite unconvinced that Millers testimony could help the defense in any possible way...how could it possibly help Dawkins case?

Miller is obviously not supportive of the witness, his interaction with Dawkins would be minimal if not parenthetical...unless the defense has some evidence of Miller getting paid all that will happen is if he is called he gets on the stand and makes Dawkins out to be a liar...Miller is not about to go into court and perjure himself...so his testimony either exonerates him and the UA or sinks him...if the defense had evidence of Miller getting money/handling money/knowing about money/ that evidence would have been presented to the Judge to begin with and the Judge would never have ruled the way he did.

The defense would have demanded Millers testimony as part of their defense and the Judge would have seen the evidence they had and allowed it...ain't no evidence...they are pissing in the wind here, but thats what defense lawyers get paid to do, drag it out,muddy the water, keep their client out of jail as long as possible and drain him of every damn nickel he owns, they don't give a rats ass if they win, their driving new BMW'rs...its just part of the job to them.

Dawkins is going to jail, no other outcome unless its a mistrial and then it will be recharged and a new case will be filed against him.

[Frybry02]

I am at the point where I am completely sick of seeing Miller and Arizona basketball being involved in every reporter's story involving the FBIs investigation. I am hoping that every piece of evidence that involves Miller is released. It will either exonerate or screw Miller. I am ok with whatever that outcome would be. I think it is the only way the program can move on one way or the other. Am I crazy?

[CatFanOneMil]

I am at the point where I am completely sick of seeing Miller and Arizona basketball being involved in every reporter's story involving the FBIs investigation. I am hoping that every piece of evidence that involves Miller is released. It will either exonerate or screw Miller. I am ok with whatever that outcome would be. I think it is the only way the program can move on one way or the other. Am I crazy?

I feel the same about Miller and the same way about the President...fucking impeach/release/charge/prove/exonerate or whatever just get done with this fucking legal shitshow on everything...and fuck the media all sides of it.

Fuck 'em all.

[Spaceman Spiff]

So much water under the bridge by now, but this is basically just a rehash of the story where Miller says "don't deal with Book, deal with me."

In and of itself, that matters to the extent the underlying money stuff can be proven.

[SabinoDrifter]

This is from The Athletic article, which I think summarizes things pretty well.

Dawkins had previously told Blazer and others “it makes sense” to pay Richardson around $4,000 per month because of his direct ties to top-10 prospects, according to the recorded conversation. Dawkins also said that Richardson and Miller “hate each other” and compared their relationship to “a bad marriage,” in part to explain why he had separate dealings with the two Arizona coaches.

That sounds like total bullshit.

[CatFanOneMil]

This is from The Athletic article, which I think summarizes things pretty well.

Dawkins had previously told Blazer and others “it makes sense” to pay Richardson around $4,000 per month because of his direct ties to top-10 prospects, according to the recorded conversation. Dawkins also said that Richardson and Miller “hate each other” and compared their relationship to “a bad marriage,” in part to explain why he had separate dealings with the two Arizona coaches.

That sounds like total bullshit.

yes of course but look at the REAL context, Dawkins is trying to get money for his own thing, he is fund-raising with these comments...he's trying to show that he needs SEPARATE money (and lots of it) because Miller and Book are at odds...getting $4k a month to funnel ONLY to Book creates a decent line of income he can manipulate..."soft costs" and all and since most of this is illegal a strict accounting will never be available...

Of course its a lie, but the context is he is fishing for funds.

[UAEebs86]

[Irish27]

[Chicat]

These vultures NEED Sean to be guilty. With every fiber of their soulless bodies...

[CatFanOneMil]

I'm kinda surprised that no one notices him vouching for Pitino as if that bastard did not resign in shame and have his win vacated...that was by the fucking NCAA the lamest prosecuting body found anywhere...

Pitino wasn't clueless he was guilty. Everyone but Dickie V knows that.

[Frybry02]

Many in the fan base, including me, may be dilussional when it comes to Millers role in this whole thing. I will say that most of the dilussion is probably fead by frustration. Frustration from how Arizona has been reported on versus the rest of the programs involved. Much of my frustration stems from Arizona being crucified when, in fact, the government has yet to reveal any evidence involving Miller other than we know there is a tape or tapes with Miller on it. (Please correct me if I'm wrong about that last statement)

On the other hand, a school, like Kansas, is involved with actual text messages being revealed. But there hasn't been the same scrutiny applied to Kansas and their involvement. The imbalance is causing frustration which is feeding my dilussion.

[CalStateTempe]

Yup and that discordance and disillusion has just about killed my interest in college bb as a whole.

[SCCats]

Yup and that discordance and disillusion has just about killed my interest in college bb as a whole.

Sadly, me too.

As a secondary idea, for a while now I haven't been sure a "clean slate" divorce might be needed by all sides (but mainly by my Arizona Wildcats side).

[Beachcat97]

You'd like to see a show of support from UofA administration and/or the Arizona BOT.

[zonagrad]

Dawkins attorney filed a motion to strike today’s testimony from Blazer, which means the stuff about Miller.

[Chicat]

Dawkins attorney filed a motion to strike today’s testimony from Blazer, which means the stuff about Miller.

I’m sure the media will erase it too.

[U.P. Zona Fan]

Dawkins attorney filed a motion to strike today’s testimony from Blazer, which means the stuff about Miller.

Did they give a reason?

[YoDeFoe]

Dawkins attorney filed a motion to strike today’s testimony from Blazer, which means the stuff about Miller.

Did they give a reason?

Prosecution was using Blazer's commentary on top of the tapes - meaning they were adding Blazer's opinion on top of evidence, which I'm not a lawyer but I understand that those should likely be separate.

[azgreg]

[Beachcat97]

That judge just broke a lot of hearts in the media.

[Spaceman Spiff]

This really is nothing new. In the complaint, Dawkins said he thought AZ players were getting paid. Yesterday, the exact same thing came out.

The issue has always been whether it can and will go any further. We are still waiting for more than what Christian Dawkins thinks or says.

As before, if actual evidence emerges about Miller, I am open to the idea he may need to go. There is no actual evidence, there is Dawkins.

[NYCat]

I'm still curious as to why the gubment would play the tape of Dawkins & the FBI agents in the yacht.

My Hope is that to catch him in a lie down the line as the prosecution builds it's case. This would involve Dawkins having to lie and exaggerate his ties to the recruiting world and coaches to grift/secure money from his "investors" to build his agency. That's my hope anyway, because I can't figure out why they would play the tape otherwise.

[zonagrad]

I'm still curious as to why the gubment would play the tape of Dawkins & the FBI agents in the yacht.

My Hope is that to catch him in a lie down the line as the prosecution builds it's case. This would involve Dawkins having to lie and exaggerate his ties to the recruiting world and coaches to grift/secure money from his "investors" to build his agency. That's my hope anyway, because I can't figure out why they would play the tape otherwise.

The FBI tape from the yacht sets the table for the whole narrative as Dawkins was "aspiring" to becoming a big time agent and had a grand plan to do so through bribery.

[Olsondogg]

I pray we dick punch everyone on the court next year just as a giant fuck you.

[CatFanOneMil]

I'm still curious as to why the gubment would play the tape of Dawkins & the FBI agents in the yacht.

My Hope is that to catch him in a lie down the line as the prosecution builds it's case. This would involve Dawkins having to lie and exaggerate his ties to the recruiting world and coaches to grift/secure money from his "investors" to build his agency. That's my hope anyway, because I can't figure out why they would play the tape otherwise.

There's a couple of reasons as far as I can tell...first the defense is complaining that the prosecutors are using Blaze's comments OVER the testimony to introduce an argument about Dawkins...in other words they played certain parts of the tape with Dawkins talking and then stop and ask Blaze "what do you think Dawkins meant by _______"

The defense is complaining because they say its wrong to use Blaze to testify as to what Dawkins was thinking because no one can know what is in another persons head, but from what I can tell the Prosecutors are trying to establish INTENT...(which is necessary to prove conspiracy)...depending on HOW the prosecutors have worded/asked the questions is COULD be a valid argument, but it could also just be to clarify that Dawkins was lying...but based on suggesting that Blaze cannot know what Dawkins is thinking I doubt that Judge is going to toss ALL OF BLAZES TESTIMONY...its a long shot defensive strategy...their running a man to man defense here with a a Jr. High team against Golden State.

So the prosecution is playing the tapes to establish intent on some level, the other side of it is just to show what a blow hard liar Dawkins is...and now even if the defense DOES get the testimony stricken it remains in the jurors mind...Dawkins is a habitual liar/blowhard and just makes shit up...even other liars know this about him.

[Spaceman Spiff]

I'm still curious as to why the gubment would play the tape of Dawkins & the FBI agents in the yacht.

My Hope is that to catch him in a lie down the line as the prosecution builds it's case. This would involve Dawkins having to lie and exaggerate his ties to the recruiting world and coaches to grift/secure money from his "investors" to build his agency. That's my hope anyway, because I can't figure out why they would play the tape otherwise.

The FBI tape from the yacht sets the table for the whole narrative as Dawkins was "aspiring" to becoming a big time agent and had a grand plan to do so through bribery.

Yep, that's what it does for their case. Dawkins is on trial, and he's straight up outlining how he plans to try to drop money in exchange for influence over players. That's the meat of the case against him.

The media cares more about what he thinks Miller was doing, but Dawkins was talking about that to illustrate how he thought he could manipulate the situation. From Dawkins's perspective, Miller handling recruitments meant he had to try to get influence on Miller not Book. That's it.

[NYCat]

I am at the point where I am completely sick of seeing Miller and Arizona basketball being involved in every reporter's story involving the FBIs investigation. I am hoping that every piece of evidence that involves Miller is released. It will either exonerate or screw Miller. I am ok with whatever that outcome would be. I think it is the only way the program can move on one way or the other. Am I crazy?

Nah, you're not. Kind of the reason why I kinda supported getting rid of Miller last year (even if the Schlabach story wasn't true), was it worth it to sacrifice last year and be real bad to get the lift the cloud over the program like Louisville (start fresh). Maybe the new coach could've kept a couple players, got some transfers, and low rated players and still be a .500 team.

Is it worth fighting all this, and keep taking PR hits if we fire Miller in 3-5+ years because he can't get to a Final Four? The only benefit as I see it is the program isn't completely decimated with talent when the coaching change happens. But is that worth it to keep the whole cloud over the program? I don't think so, but we got really lucky we had 3 top recruits in state (although one moved to FL for a year) who wanted to come here. Depending on how the year goes, it might be worth it to keep Miller to right the ship and pass it off in a better state to another coach. Then again we could get double fucked by the NCAA because Sean is still here, or more comes out.

[Irish27]

[zonagrad]

I pray we dick punch everyone on the court next year just as a giant fuck you.

I think that sentiment is shared by everyone who cheers for Arizona, especially Sean Miller.

[CatFanOneMil]

I am at the point where I am completely sick of seeing Miller and Arizona basketball being involved in every reporter's story involving the FBIs investigation. I am hoping that every piece of evidence that involves Miller is released. It will either exonerate or screw Miller. I am ok with whatever that outcome would be. I think it is the only way the program can move on one way or the other. Am I crazy?

Nah, you're not. Kind of the reason why I kinda supported getting rid of Miller last year (even if the Schlabach story wasn't true), was it worth it to sacrifice last year and be real bad to get the lift the cloud over the program like Louisville (start fresh). Maybe the new coach could've kept a couple players, got some transfers, and low rated players and still be a .500 team.

Is it worth fighting all this, and keep taking PR hits if we fire Miller in 3-5+ years because he can't get to a Final Four? The only benefit as I see it is the program isn't completely decimated with talent when the coaching change happens. But is that worth it to keep the whole cloud over the program? I don't think so, but we got really lucky we had 3 top recruits in state (although one moved to FL for a year) who wanted to come here. Depending on how the year goes, it might be worth it to keep Miller to right the ship and pass it off in a better state to another coach. Then again we could get double fucked by the NCAA because Sean is still here, or more comes out.

I think the "cloud" over the program is waaaay over-rated...look at whats on deck as we speak...at this point the #1 (or close to it) recruiting class in the nation after an abysmal season...

Chase Jetter is staying....lots of experience remaining on the floor...

The cloud is just a bunch of talking heads making up shit...but it has NOT affected the recruiting process, it has NOT affected attendance...the AD and Boosters are still behind Miller...

Sure it FEELS like a bunch of negative shit, it takes me back to the game where Miller sat out and Romar coached when all this shit broke loose...what a terrible feeling, LOTS of people in that moment said Miller should go...but it turned out to be a nothing-burger in the end...IIRC we won the PAC after that...

Compare the emotion of the night MIller sat out to the emotion of the night in Vegas when the crowd was booing Larry Scott...two sides of the same damn coin.

This is Arizona basketball...heart attack cats...tis low level depression from the smears will eventually be replaced with WHAT ABOUT US NOW MOTHERFUCKER?

I'll gladly wait for it to clear...Millers a witch, not a crook.

[zonagrad]

I'll hold my breath and wait for the ESPN headline about Zion and his family getting paid by Duke.

[EVCat]

Is it worth fighting all this, and keep taking PR hits if we fire Miller in 3-5+ years because he can't get to a Final Four? The only benefit as I see it is the program isn't completely decimated with talent when the coaching change happens. But is that worth it to keep the whole cloud over the program? I don't think so, but we got really lucky we had 3 top recruits in state (although one moved to FL for a year) who wanted to come here. Depending on how the year goes, it might be worth it to keep Miller to right the ship and pass it off in a better state to another coach. Then again we could get double fucked by the NCAA because Sean is still here, or more comes out.

I think this year's class proves it is worth fighting this in the near future. Because, once it became clear the Feds didn't have any interest in Miller and this wiretap story was a joke, the recruits came back.

I think you have to move the last 2 years into its own category...there was lingering concern for what would happen, then after 5 starters left, there was no backfill while everything was still in the air.

Prior to that 2 year period, Miller was pretty effective here. He needs to rebuild his bench, but not with players...with assistants. That is the drain that has, maybe, most affected the players. Teams need a Book...maybe not Book, but good cop guy with some history. And we need some X/O help, which was clear when Miller was dealing with all this off the court crap.

The "Final Four" question? I hate that one, because I hate that three Elite Eights are looked at as lesser than one Final Four because of an alliterative marketing phrase. But our fan base will, if he has any long term designs at staying, get restless without one, so that is always there.

But all we have to do is win with the classes we have for the near future. PR hit us all they want...if Miller gets fired in 3 to 5 years because he hasn't gotten to a final four (I cannot imagine firing him for that...but he might leave), the "bad PR" stuff, if it exists past this trial and the changing news cycle (look at Auburn and Bruce Pearl, or even Calipari at UK...recruits don't care about what people say) , will be reset.

All that matters right now, short of a revelation of actual sanction/proof of misconduct, is winning. And recruiting sure isn't hurting for all of this. I don't think having 3 recruits from Arizona has a damn thing to do with this class (really 2...a guy from Australia who then finished prep in Florida isn't a real big "in state" advantage) . Why would in state players who can go anywhere be more likely to stay with all that is going on? I mean, it isn't like Miller hasn't recruited at a high level before. He isn't leaning on his huge Arizona connections at Pinnacle and Bella Vista. Win, and we are fine. Don't, and we aren't.

But at this point...let the media make us UNLV. We are already the villain in the PAC...let the nation think we are the black hat. As long as we win. That will solve everything...

[Beachcat97]

Then again we could get double fucked by the NCAA because Sean is still here, or more comes out.

Look, that press conference that Miller did last year was intended to let him look the world in the face and declare his innocence. If he was even the slightest bit dishonest in that press conference, he has to go. I've defended him repeatedly because I think he's earned our respect and trust. But looking us in the eye and lying is a total deal-breaker.

That said, I still believe his version of things and don't think he's done anything to warrant being fired.

[NYCat]

More in text form...

• Another video wiretap was played that included Clemson assistant coach Steve Smith talking to Christian Dawkins and an undercover FBI agent about the recruitment and potential payments to be made to Zion Williamson's family. These wiretaps were caught in July of 2017.

• Clemson football was also discussed via wiretap by Clemson basketball asst coach Steve Smith like this, in relation to Zion hoops recruitment: "That's why football is so successful, is if you do it and use resources at Clemson, like you can really keep everything tight."

• Clemson asst Steve Smith knew the exact time it took to get from Clemson's arena to Zion's house—1 hour, 4 minutes—and is caught joking, telling a story about how had to pretend to Brad Brownell about not knowing the route/distance the first time they both went to see Zion there.

• Christian Dawkins, who was in the Vegas hotel room caught on video wiretap, discussing Zion recruitment: "Duke is gonna have their resources. UNC is UNC. Kentucky is gonna have their resources."

• Under oath, Marty Blazer said he understood Dawkins to be saying: "Duke, UNC and Kentucky will have people in place to pay whatever's necessary for Zion Williamson. Whatever Zion Williamson's family needed, we would be able to step in and [help with money] if it was close."

• Blazer testified—testimony supported by video taps—that 13k was given to Tony Bland (USC), $11,700 was given to AAU coach for L'ville, 6k was given to Preston Murphy (Creighton), 6k was given to Corey Barker (TCU) an4 $4,500 to Lamont Evans (then @ Okla. St) in Vegas in July 17.

• Other coaches from Arizona St (Anthony Coleman), Clemson (Steve Smith), UConn (Raphael Chillious), Texas A&M (Amir Abdur-Rahim) met w/ Dawkins, Blazer and undercover agents, but didn't receive $ b/c they weren't consider worthy enough yet, i.e. they didn't have pull w/ prospects

[midnightx]

I am at the point where I am completely sick of seeing Miller and Arizona basketball being involved in every reporter's story involving the FBIs investigation. I am hoping that every piece of evidence that involves Miller is released. It will either exonerate or screw Miller. I am ok with whatever that outcome would be. I think it is the only way the program can move on one way or the other. Am I crazy?

Nah, you're not. Kind of the reason why I kinda supported getting rid of Miller last year (even if the Schlabach story wasn't true), was it worth it to sacrifice last year and be real bad to get the lift the cloud over the program like Louisville (start fresh). Maybe the new coach could've kept a couple players, got some transfers, and low rated players and still be a .500 team.

Is it worth fighting all this, and keep taking PR hits if we fire Miller in 3-5+ years because he can't get to a Final Four? The only benefit as I see it is the program isn't completely decimated with talent when the coaching change happens. But is that worth it to keep the whole cloud over the program? I don't think so, but we got really lucky we had 3 top recruits in state (although one moved to FL for a year) who wanted to come here. Depending on how the year goes, it might be worth it to keep Miller to right the ship and pass it off in a better state to another coach. Then again we could get double fucked by the NCAA because Sean is still here, or more comes out.

The NCAA is going to do what it is going to do with or without Miller running the basketball program. Any sanctions will be due to previous transgressions. And who knows what will come of anything.

You can't fire a guy based simply on conjecture and falsehoods from ESPN. The program has been a mess the past couple of years because of the FBI Investigation and Books' somewhat minimal involvement (which had nothing to do with paying recruits to play for AZ, unlike Pitino and Self), and too much roster and assistant coaching turnover. And while Miller has had some deficient teams that have underperformed in the tournament, his overall resume is quite impressive, and has a great looking roster for next season. Parting ways with him at this point just because of two crazy years would be a mistake. If he cannot bring back stability, then he should be removed, but not because of what the NCAA might do to the program because of Book. And realistically, who is going to take over this program right now?

[midnightx]

Everyone knows Duke has a system that funnels money to these recruits. Zion and Bagley were on the open market and there is plenty of evidence programs were trying to figure out if they could meet the asking prices. Yet, Duke just happened to be the destinations because it is such a pure, special environment and everyone wants to play for Coach K...yeah right.

[Spaceman Spiff]

I am at the point where I am completely sick of seeing Miller and Arizona basketball being involved in every reporter's story involving the FBIs investigation. I am hoping that every piece of evidence that involves Miller is released. It will either exonerate or screw Miller. I am ok with whatever that outcome would be. I think it is the only way the program can move on one way or the other. Am I crazy?

Nah, you're not. Kind of the reason why I kinda supported getting rid of Miller last year (even if the Schlabach story wasn't true), was it worth it to sacrifice last year and be real bad to get the lift the cloud over the program like Louisville (start fresh). Maybe the new coach could've kept a couple players, got some transfers, and low rated players and still be a .500 team.

Is it worth fighting all this, and keep taking PR hits if we fire Miller in 3-5+ years because he can't get to a Final Four? The only benefit as I see it is the program isn't completely decimated with talent when the coaching change happens. But is that worth it to keep the whole cloud over the program? I don't think so, but we got really lucky we had 3 top recruits in state (although one moved to FL for a year) who wanted to come here. Depending on how the year goes, it might be worth it to keep Miller to right the ship and pass it off in a better state to another coach. Then again we could get double fucked by the NCAA because Sean is still here, or more comes out.

F*** PR hits. If we can pull recruits and avoid sanctions, that is all I care about. If we become the new Tark-era UNLV and wear the outlaw hat, I'm down to ride.

The NCAA is a BS, corrupt organization. Testimony today has made clear that if you accept Dawkins's word, ALL big time programs are doing this. We can be the villains for all I care.

[Beachcat97]

And realistically, who is going to take over this program right now?

Exactly. Can't fire him now. Next April would be the earliest, and that's provided he doesn't reach the FF.

[Spaceman Spiff]

More in text form...

• Another video wiretap was played that included Clemson assistant coach Steve Smith talking to Christian Dawkins and an undercover FBI agent about the recruitment and potential payments to be made to Zion Williamson's family. These wiretaps were caught in July of 2017.

• Clemson football was also discussed via wiretap by Clemson basketball asst coach Steve Smith like this, in relation to Zion hoops recruitment: "That's why football is so successful, is if you do it and use resources at Clemson, like you can really keep everything tight."

• Clemson asst Steve Smith knew the exact time it took to get from Clemson's arena to Zion's house—1 hour, 4 minutes—and is caught joking, telling a story about how had to pretend to Brad Brownell about not knowing the route/distance the first time they both went to see Zion there.

• Christian Dawkins, who was in the Vegas hotel room caught on video wiretap, discussing Zion recruitment: "Duke is gonna have their resources. UNC is UNC. Kentucky is gonna have their resources."

• Under oath, Marty Blazer said he understood Dawkins to be saying: "Duke, UNC and Kentucky will have people in place to pay whatever's necessary for Zion Williamson. Whatever Zion Williamson's family needed, we would be able to step in and [help with money] if it was close."

• Blazer testified—testimony supported by video taps—that 13k was given to Tony Bland (USC), $11,700 was given to AAU coach for L'ville, 6k was given to Preston Murphy (Creighton), 6k was given to Corey Barker (TCU) an4 $4,500 to Lamont Evans (then @ Okla. St) in Vegas in July 17.

• Other coaches from Arizona St (Anthony Coleman), Clemson (Steve Smith), UConn (Raphael Chillious), Texas A&M (Amir Abdur-Rahim) met w/ Dawkins, Blazer and undercover agents, but didn't receive $ b/c they weren't consider worthy enough yet, i.e. they didn't have pull w/ prospects

If we get nothing else from this, the fact ASU wanted money from Dawkins, but he considered it not worth his time is hilarious.