Is Graham a better coach than Rich Rod?

RockyRaccoon · Post by **RockyRaccoon** » Sat Nov 01, 2014 11:55 pm

Jesus Christ does that team just know how to win.

It makes me absolutely sick to my stomach but under Graham, ASU has pulled a 180 from when Erickson was there. It used to be whenever I watched ASU under Erickson/Koetter I would always know deep down the team would choke in games or at some point in the season. It's the complete opposite feeling since Graham has taken over.

I can only count one or two games that ASU hasn't come out and played a great game under Graham and that really fucking pisses me off when you consider the way UA comes out and lacks execution so often.

Fuck, I mean I really was looking at tonight's game like the ASU @ UCLA from last season. ASU went into the Rose Bowl and put a stamp on the South Division in November and I thought this finally was our game to do that...instead we scored 7 points.

3goggles · Post by **3goggles** » Sun Nov 02, 2014 12:00 am

It's hard argue with results. I would still rather roll with Richrod then the captain dickwing up north! The roster wasn't as bad as arizonas was but at this point in year 3 that can't be an excuse!

azpenguin · Post by **azpenguin** » Sun Nov 02, 2014 12:08 am

This same team dropped 62 on Graham.

devilswin99 · Post by **devilswin99** » Sun Nov 02, 2014 12:09 am

I believe that Graham is better.....

3goggles · Post by **3goggles** » Sun Nov 02, 2014 12:11 am

devilswin99 wrote:I believe that Graham is better.....

No shit are you serious?! I am shocked!

RockyRaccoon · Post by **RockyRaccoon** » Sun Nov 02, 2014 12:12 am

azpenguin wrote:This same team dropped 62 on Graham.

And look how his team has responded.

Not to mention ASU was playing their backup for the first significant time in his career and UCLA scored on an INT return and a kickoff return that absolutely flipped the game.

MrBug708 · Post by **MrBug708** » Sun Nov 02, 2014 12:12 am

Graham is probably the best coach in the league*

Assuming Petersen isn't the coach quality that he was at BSU

NYCat · Post by **NYCat** » Sun Nov 02, 2014 12:21 am

So far, in terms of accomplishments yes. He's done more then Rich Rod. Can't deny that, one PAC 12 south title and on track for another one.

Harvey Specter · Post by **Harvey Specter** » Sun Nov 02, 2014 1:35 am

azpenguin wrote:This same team dropped 62 on Graham.

And also hung 27 on the Bruins, despite 4 turnovers. In addition, ASU gained 626 yards against UCLA to our anemic 255. 626 vs. 255. Time for a few "high octane jokes"?

Our defense was fine, but if UCLA does not self destruct with penalties we get boat raced tonight. An absolute f*cking embarrassment.

At this point, there is no debate on the topic at hand. As for their tenures in their current jobs, Graham has been more successful than Rodriguez, by a good margin. And the earliest it appears that trend might change is next year.

Rich Rod is a very good coach, but so far he is Mora's b*tch, and until proven otherwise - Graham's too.

I read the last 2 seasons about Graham inherited so much more talent... How he mortgaged his program's future by recruiting too many JC's (which we do now, too)... and how this year he would be burned because of all the players on the 2 deep he lost after last season.

Let the usual suspects conduct their circle jerk / elephant walk to make themselves feel better... if ASU WINS at home next week (as I expect them to), they will control their own destiny to the conference championship AND a spot in the playoff.

In other news... People can stop posting concerns about RR being offered the Florida job.

cats101 · Post by **cats101** » Sun Nov 02, 2014 1:51 am

cats101 · Post by **cats101** » Sun Nov 02, 2014 1:53 am

And teams improve. Idk people are still bringing up that game.

What a waste of time.

Puerco · Post by **Puerco** » Sun Nov 02, 2014 2:02 am

I call bull shit. What has ASU done so far this year? They got demolished by the team that just beat us in a close game. They beat the other team that beat us on a hail mary, and we lost by missing a chip shot field goal as time expired. They beat Utah at home because Utah missed a chip shot.

Everything is still to come. ASU benefits from a weak schedule this year, but we're still right there. The proof will come soon, but calling the season this early is bull shit.

Scummy Dick Douglas · Post by **Scummy Dick Douglas** » Sun Nov 02, 2014 9:31 am

Puerco wrote:I call bull shit. What has ASU done so far this year? They got demolished by the team that just beat us in a close game. They beat the other team that beat us on a hail mary, and we lost by missing a chip shot field goal as time expired. They beat Utah at home because Utah missed a chip shot.

Everything is still to come. ASU benefits from a weak schedule this year, but we're still right there. The proof will come soon, but calling the season this early is bull shit.

Weak schedule? How do you figure? And unless we are going to start discounting the victory over Cal by Hail Mary, lets quit bringing up their victory over SC in similar fashion. One team executed, the other did not.

Merkin · Post by **Merkin** » Sun Nov 02, 2014 10:41 am

Is UA closing the gap?

qwertyus · Post by **qwertyus** » Sun Nov 02, 2014 10:48 am

Who fucking cares? Maybe we could just focus on our own team rather than ASU? We can talk about them plenty when we face them at the end of the year. We just lost a game in which the offensive side of the ball failed to show up. We've got our own problems without fawning over TG.

cat77 · Post by **cat77** » Sun Nov 02, 2014 11:53 am

qwertyus wrote:Who fucking cares? Maybe we could just focus on our own team rather than ASU? We can talk about them plenty when we face them at the end of the year. We just lost a game in which the offensive side of the ball failed to show up. We've got our own problems without fawning over TG.

Perfectly said!!!

RazorsEdgeAZ · Post by **RazorsEdgeAZ** » Sun Nov 02, 2014 12:04 pm

Rich Rod now 4-6 in November games while at Arizona.

2012 2-2 (2-2 against p12 south)
2013 2-3 (0-2 p12 south)
2014 0-1

Still has a shot at getting a winning conference record.

Machina · Post by **Machina** » Sun Nov 02, 2014 12:40 pm

Puerco · Post by **Puerco** » Mon Nov 03, 2014 3:16 am

Scummy Dick Douglas wrote:
Puerco wrote:I call bull shit. What has ASU done so far this year? They got demolished by the team that just beat us in a close game. They beat the other team that beat us on a hail mary, and we lost by missing a chip shot field goal as time expired. They beat Utah at home because Utah missed a chip shot.

Everything is still to come. ASU benefits from a weak schedule this year, but we're still right there. The proof will come soon, but calling the season this early is bull shit.

Weak schedule? How do you figure? And unless we are going to start discounting the victory over Cal by Hail Mary, lets quit bringing up their victory over SC in similar fashion. One team executed, the other did not.

I only bring up the SC hail mary because there's not much difference in execution between winning on a hail mary or losing on a missed chip shot field goal as time expires. Common opponent. ASU doesn't play Cal.

Regarding schedules, which conference schedule do you think belongs to which team? One team clearly plays a tougher road schedule, and one team played Oregon on the road instead of Stanford at home. At the beginning of the season I would have said the two were similarly difficult, but the way this season has played out ASU has a massive benefit vs. Arizona.

vs California
@#2 Oregon
vs USC
@ Washington St
@ #22 UCLA
vs Colorado
vs Washington
@#17 Utah
vs #14 Arizona State
Combined record of road opponents: 14-8

@ Colorado
vs #11 UCLA
@ #16 USC
vs #23 Stanford
@ Washington
vs #17 Utah
@ Oregon State
vs Washington St
@ #12 Arizona
Combined record of road opponents: 11-17

illcat · Post by **illcat** » Mon Nov 03, 2014 3:57 am

qwertyus wrote:Who fucking cares? Maybe we could just focus on our own team rather than ASU? We can talk about them plenty when we face them at the end of the year. We just lost a game in which the offensive side of the ball failed to show up. We've got our own problems without fawning over TG.

Who care about the toad.

Scummy Dick Douglas · Post by **Scummy Dick Douglas** » Mon Nov 03, 2014 6:32 am

Puerco wrote:
Scummy Dick Douglas wrote:
Puerco wrote:I call bull shit. What has ASU done so far this year? They got demolished by the team that just beat us in a close game. They beat the other team that beat us on a hail mary, and we lost by missing a chip shot field goal as time expired. They beat Utah at home because Utah missed a chip shot.

Everything is still to come. ASU benefits from a weak schedule this year, but we're still right there. The proof will come soon, but calling the season this early is bull shit.

Weak schedule? How do you figure? And unless we are going to start discounting the victory over Cal by Hail Mary, lets quit bringing up their victory over SC in similar fashion. One team executed, the other did not.
I only bring up the SC hail mary because there's not much difference in execution between winning on a hail mary or losing on a missed chip shot field goal as time expires. Common opponent. ASU doesn't play Cal.

Regarding schedules, which conference schedule do you think belongs to which team? One team clearly plays a tougher road schedule, and one team played Oregon on the road instead of Stanford at home. At the beginning of the season I would have said the two were similarly difficult, but the way this season has played out ASU has a massive benefit vs. Arizona.

vs California
@#2 Oregon
vs USC
@ Washington St
@ #22 UCLA
vs Colorado
vs Washington
@#17 Utah
vs #14 Arizona State
Combined record of road opponents: 14-8

@ Colorado
vs #11 UCLA
@ #16 USC
vs #23 Stanford
@ Washington
vs #17 Utah
@ Oregon State
vs Washington St
@ #12 Arizona
Combined record of road opponents: 11-17

First, I think its been pretty well documented that home field advantage has been largely non existent in the PAC this year. Second, I notice you are only taking into account conference games, which excludes their matchup with a top ten Notre Dame this week. I would prefer you didnt use this metric in grading their coaching abilities because when considering their conference records, RR has a 11-12 record in conference games during his tenure at UA, while Graham has an 18-7 record during the same time span.

Puerco · Post by **Puerco** » Mon Nov 03, 2014 7:57 am

Yep, sorry. I should have clarified that I was only speaking about ASU vs. UA's results on the field this year, and to do that one really should just focus on the conference. I was not looking at overall schedule -- obviously ASU has a tougher one out of conference this year.

This year's road upsets are interesting, but hardly have any statistical relevance. Please don't tell me you'd rather play UA's conference schedule than ASU's.

Overall conference records are meaningless in the comparison: we all know Stoops left a bare cupboard. I expected Crakcer to have a better record than Rodriguez until years 4 or 5. I would suppose most people out there had similar expectations. For the record, I think they're both doing very well.

catinfl · Post by **catinfl** » Mon Nov 03, 2014 8:15 am

You beat a Washington team with a backup QB.
Beat a Stanford team with a putrid offense and is only a fraction as good as previous years.
Beat a Utah team without their best offensive player and their "Automatic" FG kicker missing two in OT.
Sorry if I just don't see it. Luckily their schedule sets up nicely. We gotta beat them in Tucson

Scummy Dick Douglas · Post by **Scummy Dick Douglas** » Mon Nov 03, 2014 8:37 am

catinfl wrote:You beat a Washington team with a backup QB.
Beat a Stanford team with a putrid offense and is only a fraction as good as previous years.
Beat a Utah team without their best offensive player and their "Automatic" FG kicker missing two in OT.
Sorry if I just don't see it. Luckily their schedule sets up nicely. We gotta beat them in Tucson

You are reaching. Do you also believe UA only beat Oregon because Oregon's offensive line was decimated? Every team has injuries. ASU was missing its starting QB for games against UCLA, USC, and Stanford. They were missing their best defensive player against UCLA, and they were missing one of their offensive linemen against Utah.

Injuries are a part of the game. At the end of the day, one team executes, and the other does not.

catinfl · Post by **catinfl** » Mon Nov 03, 2014 8:48 am

Scummy Dick Douglas wrote:
catinfl wrote:You beat a Washington team with a backup QB.
Beat a Stanford team with a putrid offense and is only a fraction as good as previous years.
Beat a Utah team without their best offensive player and their "Automatic" FG kicker missing two in OT.
Sorry if I just don't see it. Luckily their schedule sets up nicely. We gotta beat them in Tucson
You are reaching. Do you also believe UA only beat Oregon because Oregon's offensive line was decimated? Every team has injuries. ASU was missing its starting QB for games against UCLA, USC, and Stanford. They were missing their best defensive player against UCLA, and they were missing one of their offensive linemen against Utah.

Injuries are a part of the game. At the end of the day, one team executes, and the other does not.

Everybody points to Oregon's OL, but forgets to mention we had two of our starting DL out too.. Anyway yeah it's part of the game, but do you not think Dres Anderson would have made a difference? The point I'm making is that asu has had the luxury of playing three of the worst offenses in the Pac-12 the last three games. Haven't played a good offense since USC and won't play another one until Arizona. Now you get to play an already bad WSU with their backup QB. A bad Oregon State team that is also near the bottom of the conference in offense and us.

Do I think asu is a better team? no. I think asu and ua are about equal at this point. The defense won't be challenged until they roll up to Tucson

catinfl · Post by **catinfl** » Mon Nov 03, 2014 8:51 am

ND has a good offense too. It will be a good barometer imo, but now ND's starting LB and leader of the defense is injured..

azcat49 · Post by **azcat49** » Mon Nov 03, 2014 9:23 am

One thing, CTG and his staff have done a great job recruiting. They have a monster class coming in with my guys ranked at there positions. They have a big weekend this week with a couple of 5 star guys coming in.

They seem well prepared and they are accountable and focused. You have to be impressed with the job they have done. Maybe Florida will want him

CalStateTempe · Post by **CalStateTempe** » Mon Nov 03, 2014 9:42 am

The answer to this question, based on the body of work so far, is yes.

Would I trade for him, no way, seems like a slimey used car salesman, but results are results.

Olsondogg · Post by **Olsondogg** » Mon Nov 03, 2014 9:43 am

Who cares?

Is there one UA fan that would want Graham as a coach? If there is, then that guy is a douche.

dc4azcats · Post by **dc4azcats** » Mon Nov 03, 2014 9:51 am

catinfl wrote:You beat a Washington team with a backup QB.
Beat a Stanford team with a putrid offense and is only a fraction as good as previous years.
Beat a Utah team without their best offensive player and their "Automatic" FG kicker missing two in OT.
Sorry if I just don't see it. Luckily their schedule sets up nicely. We gotta beat them in Tucson

Not only that but Stanford ranks 94th in the country in rushing the ball and it's WR's can't catch the ball.

UW besides playing it's back=up QB cant throw the ball as they rank 107th in passing. Out of 128 teams.

Utah is even worse coming in at 111th in passing the ball. Not difficult to beat a team that passes for all of 57 yards.

The last 2 teams that you could argue have any semblance to what Arizona does on offense is SC and UCLA. SC passed for 270 and rushed for 220. Ucla passed for 355 and ran for 255. Since those games Assu's D hasn't played anybody with any offensive firepower to speak of. Can't wait to play them.

Scummy Dick Douglas · Mon Nov 03, 2014 10:28 am

dc4azcats wrote:
catinfl wrote:You beat a Washington team with a backup QB.
Beat a Stanford team with a putrid offense and is only a fraction as good as previous years.
Beat a Utah team without their best offensive player and their "Automatic" FG kicker missing two in OT.
Sorry if I just don't see it. Luckily their schedule sets up nicely. We gotta beat them in Tucson
Not only that but Stanford ranks 94th in the country in rushing the ball and it's WR's can't catch the ball.

UW besides playing it's back=up QB cant throw the ball as they rank 107th in passing. Out of 128 teams.

Utah is even worse coming in at 111th in passing the ball. Not difficult to beat a team that passes for all of 57 yards.
The last 2 teams that you could argue have any semblance to what Arizona does on offense is SC and UCLA. SC passed for 270 and rushed for 220. Ucla passed for 355 and ran for 255. Since those games Assu's D hasn't played anybody with any offensive firepower to speak of. Can't wait to play them.

Your reasoning is void of logic. If UW is 107th in passing, what good would their starting QB have done, especially in that weather?

Not difficult to beat Utah?! So I assume you dont think the game @ Utah will not be difficult at all, right? Call me crazy, but I still believe defense is the key cog in winning championships. Nothing but respect for what USC, Stanford, Utah, UW, and yes, ASU, have done on that side of the ball.

dc4azcats · Post by **dc4azcats** » Mon Nov 03, 2014 10:59 am

Scummy Dick Douglas wrote:
dc4azcats wrote:
catinfl wrote:You beat a Washington team with a backup QB.
Beat a Stanford team with a putrid offense and is only a fraction as good as previous years.
Beat a Utah team without their best offensive player and their "Automatic" FG kicker missing two in OT.
Sorry if I just don't see it. Luckily their schedule sets up nicely. We gotta beat them in Tucson
Not only that but Stanford ranks 94th in the country in rushing the ball and it's WR's can't catch the ball.

UW besides playing it's back=up QB cant throw the ball as they rank 107th in passing. Out of 128 teams.

Utah is even worse coming in at 111th in passing the ball. Not difficult to beat a team that passes for all of 57 yards.
The last 2 teams that you could argue have any semblance to what Arizona does on offense is SC and UCLA. SC passed for 270 and rushed for 220. Ucla passed for 355 and ran for 255. Since those games Assu's D hasn't played anybody with any offensive firepower to speak of. Can't wait to play them.
Your reasoning is void of logic. If UW is 107th in passing, what good would their starting QB have done, especially in that weather?

Not difficult to beat Utah?! So I assume you dont think the game @ Utah will not be difficult at all, right? Call me crazy, but I still believe defense is the key cog in winning championships. Nothing but respect for what USC, Stanford, Utah, UW, and yes, ASU, have done on that side of the ball.

Have you watched UW TY? It doesn't matter who they throw out there at QB - starter or the back-up. If not for their D and the points the D has put up they would be a 3 win team.

I didn't say that they game at Utah wouldn't be difficult but I still think we win. We're a bad match-up for Utah mainly because we can throw and pass effectively and because we seem to be able to stop their run game. Look at the last 2 games we've played vs Utah? Utah was supposed to be a top run D and we gashed them both games. They also pride themselves on playing smash mouth and yet LY they rushed for 172 and we rushed for 300. In 2012 they rushed the ball for 136 yards while we rushed the ball for 320. So you tell me why I should expect TY to be different when they can't pass the ball and we seem to have the answer defensively when they run the ball? I'm not trying to cure cancer hear and I know the stats aren't the end all but in this case the numbers don't lie.

I'm not impressed by Assu's D because you give any D the chance to focus on what you do best knowing you can't do anything else makes for a much easier time. Especially when you look at the results when they've played teams that have a balanced attack. I'm not making this stuff up - it's out there and it's in black and white.

I think ND exposes Assu and we will do the same.

3goggles · Post by **3goggles** » Mon Nov 03, 2014 11:13 am

Its what ifs but could imagine if Kadeem was running the rock for us! Ugh it makes me sad to think that. Could you say undefeated? Probably!

CalStateTempe · Post by **CalStateTempe** » Mon Nov 03, 2014 11:20 am

Kadeem made a stupid decision to leave.

3goggles · Post by **3goggles** » Mon Nov 03, 2014 11:25 am

Sure looking that way. We would be a machine with him! What if!

azpenguin · Post by **azpenguin** » Mon Nov 03, 2014 11:37 am

CalStateTempe wrote:Kadeem made a stupid decision to leave.

No, he didn't...

Scummy Dick Douglas · Mon Nov 03, 2014 11:58 am

dc4azcats wrote:
Scummy Dick Douglas wrote:
dc4azcats wrote:
catinfl wrote:You beat a Washington team with a backup QB.
Beat a Stanford team with a putrid offense and is only a fraction as good as previous years.
Beat a Utah team without their best offensive player and their "Automatic" FG kicker missing two in OT.
Sorry if I just don't see it. Luckily their schedule sets up nicely. We gotta beat them in Tucson
Not only that but Stanford ranks 94th in the country in rushing the ball and it's WR's can't catch the ball.

UW besides playing it's back=up QB cant throw the ball as they rank 107th in passing. Out of 128 teams.

Utah is even worse coming in at 111th in passing the ball. Not difficult to beat a team that passes for all of 57 yards.
The last 2 teams that you could argue have any semblance to what Arizona does on offense is SC and UCLA. SC passed for 270 and rushed for 220. Ucla passed for 355 and ran for 255. Since those games Assu's D hasn't played anybody with any offensive firepower to speak of. Can't wait to play them.
Your reasoning is void of logic. If UW is 107th in passing, what good would their starting QB have done, especially in that weather?

Not difficult to beat Utah?! So I assume you dont think the game @ Utah will not be difficult at all, right? Call me crazy, but I still believe defense is the key cog in winning championships. Nothing but respect for what USC, Stanford, Utah, UW, and yes, ASU, have done on that side of the ball.
Have you watched UW TY? It doesn't matter who they throw out there at QB - starter or the back-up. If not for their D and the points the D has put up they would be a 3 win team.

I didn't say that they game at Utah wouldn't be difficult but I still think we win. We're a bad match-up for Utah mainly because we can throw and pass effectively and because we seem to be able to stop their run game. Look at the last 2 games we've played vs Utah? Utah was supposed to be a top run D and we gashed them both games. They also pride themselves on playing smash mouth and yet LY they rushed for 172 and we rushed for 300. In 2012 they rushed the ball for 136 yards while we rushed the ball for 320. So you tell me why I should expect TY to be different when they can't pass the ball and we seem to have the answer defensively when they run the ball? I'm not trying to cure cancer hear and I know the stats aren't the end all but in this case the numbers don't lie.

I'm not impressed by Assu's D because you give any D the chance to focus on what you do best knowing you can't do anything else makes for a much easier time. Especially when you look at the results when they've played teams that have a balanced attack. I'm not making this stuff up - it's out there and it's in black and white.

I think ND exposes Assu and we will do the same.

"It doesn't matter who they throw out there at QB - starter or the back-up." That was my point in asking why you were discrediting the win for them based on UW being down a starting QB?

"We're a bad match-up for Utah mainly because we can throw and pass effectively and because we seem to be able to stop their run game."- We will see. Its hard to pass effectively when the other teams D line spends the whole game in your backfield. UA has not yet played Utah, so I would hold off on assuming UA capable of stopping their run game considering neither USC nor UCLA contained Booker.

"Look at the last 2 games we've played vs Utah?"- Absolutely no bearing on the matchup this year. If using the past as reasoning for present results, UA never stood a chance against UCLA, and also doesn't stand a chance against ASU. Can UA beat Utah? Absolutely, but it is going to take excellent coaching and possibly UA's best game of the season to go into Salt Lake in November against that D and get a W. That game is certainly not the "bad matchup for Utah" you think it is.

Puerco · Post by **Puerco** » Mon Nov 03, 2014 12:00 pm

So you never said whether you'd rather have UA's or ASU's conference schedule, Dick.

Scummy Dick Douglas · Mon Nov 03, 2014 12:05 pm

Puerco wrote:So you never said whether you'd rather have UA's or ASU's conference schedule, Dick.

I would prefer to face ASU's conference schedule.

PieceOfMeat · Post by **PieceOfMeat** » Mon Nov 03, 2014 12:15 pm

CalStateTempe wrote:Kadeem made a stupid decision to leave.

I'd be interested in hearing your rationale for this statement.....cause I don't think he did, at all.

Catstatic · Post by **Catstatic** » Mon Nov 03, 2014 12:24 pm

Both RR and TG are better than I thought they would be. You can build a program around RR, as he has shown at WVU. TG? We shall see ...

Go Cats!!

CalStateTempe · Post by **CalStateTempe** » Mon Nov 03, 2014 12:43 pm

azpenguin wrote:
CalStateTempe wrote:Kadeem made a stupid decision to leave.
No, he didn't...

The Chicago bears depth chart says otherwise.

azgreg · Post by **azgreg** » Mon Nov 03, 2014 12:47 pm

CalStateTempe wrote:
azpenguin wrote:
CalStateTempe wrote:Kadeem made a stupid decision to leave.
No, he didn't...
The Chicago bears depth chart says otherwise.

He's in the league, he made the right choice. Those who leave early and don't make a squad are the ones who made a bad choice.

azpenguin · Post by **azpenguin** » Mon Nov 03, 2014 1:00 pm

CalStateTempe wrote:
azpenguin wrote:
CalStateTempe wrote:Kadeem made a stupid decision to leave.
No, he didn't...
The Chicago bears depth chart says otherwise.

The depth chart where he's #2 at running back? Where he beat out other guys to get there?

Scummy Dick Douglas · Post by **Scummy Dick Douglas** » Mon Nov 03, 2014 1:07 pm

azpenguin wrote:
CalStateTempe wrote:
azpenguin wrote:
CalStateTempe wrote:Kadeem made a stupid decision to leave.
No, he didn't...
The Chicago bears depth chart says otherwise.
The depth chart where he's #2 at running back? Where he beat out other guys to get there?

^Exactly. He was never going to beat out Matt Forte.

Merkin · Post by **Merkin** » Mon Nov 03, 2014 1:08 pm

Ka'Deem getting 300 more carries at Arizona would not benefit him at all, and probably hurt his stock. That's a lot of punishment to take.

dc4azcats · Post by **dc4azcats** » Mon Nov 03, 2014 1:12 pm

Scummy Dick Douglas wrote:
dc4azcats wrote:
Scummy Dick Douglas wrote:
dc4azcats wrote:
catinfl wrote:You beat a Washington team with a backup QB.
Beat a Stanford team with a putrid offense and is only a fraction as good as previous years.
Beat a Utah team without their best offensive player and their "Automatic" FG kicker missing two in OT.
Sorry if I just don't see it. Luckily their schedule sets up nicely. We gotta beat them in Tucson
Not only that but Stanford ranks 94th in the country in rushing the ball and it's WR's can't catch the ball.

UW besides playing it's back=up QB cant throw the ball as they rank 107th in passing. Out of 128 teams.

Utah is even worse coming in at 111th in passing the ball. Not difficult to beat a team that passes for all of 57 yards.
The last 2 teams that you could argue have any semblance to what Arizona does on offense is SC and UCLA. SC passed for 270 and rushed for 220. Ucla passed for 355 and ran for 255. Since those games Assu's D hasn't played anybody with any offensive firepower to speak of. Can't wait to play them.
Your reasoning is void of logic. If UW is 107th in passing, what good would their starting QB have done, especially in that weather?

Not difficult to beat Utah?! So I assume you dont think the game @ Utah will not be difficult at all, right? Call me crazy, but I still believe defense is the key cog in winning championships. Nothing but respect for what USC, Stanford, Utah, UW, and yes, ASU, have done on that side of the ball.
Have you watched UW TY? It doesn't matter who they throw out there at QB - starter or the back-up. If not for their D and the points the D has put up they would be a 3 win team.

I didn't say that they game at Utah wouldn't be difficult but I still think we win. We're a bad match-up for Utah mainly because we can throw and pass effectively and because we seem to be able to stop their run game. Look at the last 2 games we've played vs Utah? Utah was supposed to be a top run D and we gashed them both games. They also pride themselves on playing smash mouth and yet LY they rushed for 172 and we rushed for 300. In 2012 they rushed the ball for 136 yards while we rushed the ball for 320. So you tell me why I should expect TY to be different when they can't pass the ball and we seem to have the answer defensively when they run the ball? I'm not trying to cure cancer hear and I know the stats aren't the end all but in this case the numbers don't lie.

I'm not impressed by Assu's D because you give any D the chance to focus on what you do best knowing you can't do anything else makes for a much easier time. Especially when you look at the results when they've played teams that have a balanced attack. I'm not making this stuff up - it's out there and it's in black and white.

I think ND exposes Assu and we will do the same.
"It doesn't matter who they throw out there at QB - starter or the back-up." That was my point in asking why you were discrediting the win for them based on UW being down a starting QB?

"We're a bad match-up for Utah mainly because we can throw and pass effectively and because we seem to be able to stop their run game."- We will see. Its hard to pass effectively when the other teams D line spends the whole game in your backfield. UA has not yet played Utah, so I would hold off on assuming UA capable of stopping their run game considering neither USC nor UCLA contained Booker.

"Look at the last 2 games we've played vs Utah?"- Absolutely no bearing on the matchup this year. If using the past as reasoning for present results, UA never stood a chance against UCLA, and also doesn't stand a chance against ASU. Can UA beat Utah? Absolutely, but it is going to take excellent coaching and possibly UA's best game of the season to go into Salt Lake in November against that D and get a W. That game is certainly not the "bad matchup for Utah" you think it is.

Stay with me on this - if you are a one dimensional team or in Stanfords case where you do neither one well it makes a difference for the defending team. If you can't throw then I can stack the box and make you beat me running the ball. Doesn't mean I stop you from running the ball entirely but if I put you in third and long situations (see Utah's last drive in regulation and in the first OT as proof) I have the advantage.

As for the last 2 season not having any bearing on TY's game? So both coaching staffs are the same, exception being Utah has a new OC but everything else is the same. Arizona has the same OC and DC. So in '12 we dominated them rushing the ball and we stopped their running game. Last year with the same coaches again we rushed the ball at will and we stopped them from rushing the ball. But TY with the same staff again, you're saying we won't?

Utah can't pass so they run the ball which is the same philosophy they had in 12 and 13 and what they have to do TY because they can't throw it. Yet our same coaching staff that has seen Utah the last 2 years won't be able to stop Utah's running game when we know they can't throw the ball? Good one. Because they've changed how they run the ball?

It doesn't look any different than is has the last 2 years. They don't have the speed to get outside so the run it between the tackles on almost every play. Wilson will keep it if you pinch in on the edge but the difference with Arizona is we run a 3 man front and it's our LB and safeties that come up and make the play on the QB running wide - not our DE.

Say what you will in regards to Tevis and Bondo in pass coverage but in running plays they come up and usually make the play and I would argue it plays to the strength of both players. It's why we've been so effective stopping Utah's run game. It's a between the tackles run game because they don't have the speed to get outside and get the corner. They can't play action which is our biggest weakness because they can't throw the ball to save their lives so please explain to me again how difficult it was for Assu to stop Utah and how difficult it will be for Arizona to do so?

Utah rushed the ball 52 times against Assu for 184 yards. That's a 3.5 yards per carry average yet they kept running it. Why? Because they were even worse throwing the ball!! 12-22 for 57 yards. There's peewee teams out there that can throw 22 times and get more than 57 yards. In case you were wondering - that's 2.6 yards per pass. Of course they kept running it because on 3rd and long yardage I'll give you the 2.5 yard reception all game long. Not only that but 12 for 22 means close to 50% of the time you don't even catch the ball. If Utah had any kind of offense they win this game.

I like our offense vs Utah and I especially like our offense vs Assu.

Scummy Dick Douglas · Post by **Scummy Dick Douglas** » Mon Nov 03, 2014 1:36 pm

DC

First, I am still struggling to follow your logic using past results and coaching staffs, because your theory does not take into account the evolution of the team itself. UA is fielding a very different team than last year, as is Utah. When looking at college football, you have to take into account the fact that these kids are maturing and hypothetically improving from year to year. So again, the results of the last couple of years have no bearing, just like consecutive losses to UCLA and ASU had/have no bearing on this years games.

Second, I think you are not giving the defense and special teams enough value in games. Utah lacks a passing game, I completely agree. But they have an excellent defense, special teams, and running game. Their game is not about putting up a ton of points. They grind their opponents, and place a lot of emphasis on field position. Generally, they have been able to come up with a few key turnovers to turn the tide of the game in their favor, even if late. So all that said, I stand by what I said prior: If RR is able to lead UA to a win over Utah on the road in November, it will be because of excellent game planning and a complete lack of mistakes, i.e. key turnovers. The offensive line will have to play lights out, because when Utah is able to get pressure rushing four, their opponents are usually in trouble.

If you can't tell I place a lot of emphasis on defense.

PieceOfMeat · Post by **PieceOfMeat** » Mon Nov 03, 2014 1:38 pm

CalStateTempe wrote:
azpenguin wrote:
CalStateTempe wrote:Kadeem made a stupid decision to leave.
No, he didn't...
The Chicago bears depth chart says otherwise.

This is a silly argument CST.

He's #2, had to work to get there, on a team where #1 is a pretty darn good RB. He gets to spends (at least) this year learning, while getting a few real game reps, and doesn't have to take a beating while earning his paycheck. He made the right choice. He can still be the #1 guy in 2 or 3 years, and won't have the wear and tear on him.

Chicat · Post by **Chicat** » Mon Nov 03, 2014 1:48 pm

CalStateTempe wrote:
azpenguin wrote:
CalStateTempe wrote:Kadeem made a stupid decision to leave.
No, he didn't...
The Chicago bears depth chart says otherwise.

How many rookie running backs are starters this year without the benefit of the original starter getting injured?

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