Nico Mannion

dovecanyoncat · Post by **dovecanyoncat** » Wed Feb 19, 2020 1:45 pm

Merkin wrote:
Beachcat97 wrote:I think that's spot-on, zg. And for a player as quick, athletic and wily as Nico, I'd like to see him attack the rim a little more. He could draw fouls, but he tends to settle for those floaters and long jumpers.
One of my biggest complaints is the lack of FTs Nico gets. For someone that quick, who drives a lot, with good handles, he does not do well in drawing fouls. Outside of the USC anomaly where he shot 18 FTs, in the last 15 games he has not shot more that 6 FTs, and has 4 games with no FT attempts. He actually does better in drawing fouls on 3 PT shots than he does driving it seems.

He's dependable at the FT line. One would think that the coaching staff would prioritize getting him there. He's had some bad calls not go his way but, hey, this is the Pac-12 and the Refs' prom dress is the most important uniform on the court. Still, how many more wins would we have if it were Nico, not DSmith, at the line at the close of close games?

zonagrad · Post by **zonagrad** » Wed Feb 19, 2020 4:40 pm

The one thing I’ve noticed is Nico’s lack of utilizing a jump stop. Combined with a ball fake, it gets defenders in the air and prone to fouling. It also reduces the risk of getting called for a charge, which has happened frequently because college refs are wired to make that call.

eoe · Post by **eoe** » Thu Feb 20, 2020 9:53 am

Pressing too much to get out into the break for easy offense, very obvious. It's a mindset issue more than any mechanics IMO

EVCat · Post by **EVCat** » Thu Feb 20, 2020 10:41 am

eoe wrote:Pressing too much to get out into the break for easy offense, very obvious. It's a mindset issue more than any mechanics IMO

He's also jumping to pass too often, and getting caught with nowhere to go. That is being sped up, predetermining what he wants to do. If he makes a few shots in a row, that goes away because the defender starts pushing up on him more and passing lanes open up. But right now, he is often dribbling into the defense on drives rather than by them, and then if he gets cut off, he jumps to pass. He'll be fine, but that is a current trend that isn't a good look

dmjcat · Post by **dmjcat** » Sun Feb 23, 2020 9:42 am

After having the opportunity to watch Nico vs. Pritchard last night I have concluded that it would take a truly insane idiot to waste a lottery pick on Nico. If there is an NBA manager willing to drop a 1st round pick (even the last pick of the 1st round) then Nico better jump to the league in a heartbeat. If he were to return and have only modest improvement then he would be completely exposed and never see any kind of draft pick.

With every game Nicos "potential" is gradually evaporating. And please don't give me the garbage about his game being "made for the NBA". The NBA is FULL of more athletic versions of Payton Pritchard. Nico would be wise to test the waters and not sign an agent. If he doesn't have a guaranteed 1st round pick he may want to consider returning. It would come down to whether or not he likes college.

Alieberman · Post by **Alieberman** » Sun Feb 23, 2020 9:54 am

A lottery pick is expected to be a starter from day 1.

There is no way Nico is a starting pg in the NBA right now.

Longhorned · Post by **Longhorned** » Sun Feb 23, 2020 9:55 am

dmjcat wrote:After having the opportunity to watch Nico vs. Pritchard last night I have concluded that it would take a truly insane idiot to waste a lottery pick on Nico. If there is an NBA manager willing to drop a 1st round pick (even the last pick of the 1st round) then Nico better jump to the league in a heartbeat. If he were to return and have only modest improvement then he would be completely exposed and never see any kind of draft pick.

With every game Nicos "potential" is gradually evaporating. And please don't give me the garbage about his game being "made for the NBA". The NBA is FULL of more athletic versions of Payton Pritchard. Nico would be wise to test the waters and not sign an agent. If he doesn't have a guaranteed 1st round pick he may want to consider returning. It would come down to whether or not he likes college.

If it’s true that he’s a legit one and done and will be successful in the NBA, it’s entirely at Arizona’s expense.

97cats · Post by **97cats** » Thu Feb 27, 2020 10:22 pm

3-14 and another overall awful game

eoe · Post by **eoe** » Thu Feb 27, 2020 10:24 pm

97cats wrote:3-14 and another overall awful game

Playing in a dog shit motion offense better suited to the TJ McConnells of the world and not Nico’s game isn’t his fault. His speed and handle is elite

dovecanyoncat · Post by **dovecanyoncat** » Thu Feb 27, 2020 10:25 pm

Akinjo: Nico is a pussy.

goslingswagg · Post by **goslingswagg** » Thu Feb 27, 2020 10:26 pm

97cats wrote:3-14 and another overall awful game

pathetic pathetic pathetic. Cannot believe it’s gotten to this point...

dmjcat · Post by **dmjcat** » Thu Feb 27, 2020 10:27 pm

I for one, find it very, very hard to believe that Nico is a top 10 pick.

If anyone guarantees Nico a 1st round pick (even if its the last pick of the 1st round) he needs to run to the NBA as fast as he can and take the $$$ while he can.

Postmaster · Post by **Postmaster** » Thu Feb 27, 2020 11:12 pm

That dude that they talked to for twenty minutes has his listed at 10.

AZCatGirl · Post by **AZCatGirl** » Thu Feb 27, 2020 11:14 pm

And Miller's bad luck finding good PG continues... (With the obvious exception)

Beachcat97 · Post by **Beachcat97** » Thu Feb 27, 2020 11:16 pm

Nico is super immature and was also overrated out of HS. He can still become a good player, but it won’t be while he’s at AZ.

eoe · Post by **eoe** » Thu Feb 27, 2020 11:23 pm

Lots of ignorance going on

Nico will be a steady NBA PG

The kid is number 1 in APG in all Div 1 amongst freshmen

His shot being way off isn’t a mechanics thing and he has proven against elite competition he can fill it up

He will be a lottery pick and will stick in the NBA, his game is NBA 100% and his skills are really not comparable to most any college players

U.P. Zona Fan · Post by **U.P. Zona Fan** » Fri Feb 28, 2020 4:42 am

They all need another year.

gronk4heisman · Post by **gronk4heisman** » Fri Feb 28, 2020 6:32 am

Good luck Nico, I do not see it working out well for you in the future without serious development. Hopefully you find an NBA team that will help you with that.

CalStateTempe · Post by **CalStateTempe** » Fri Feb 28, 2020 6:48 am

eoe wrote:Lots of ignorance going on

Nico will be a steady NBA PG

The kid is number 1 in APG in all Div 1 amongst freshmen

His shot being way off isn’t a mechanics thing and he has proven against elite competition he can fill it up

He will be a lottery pick and will stick in the NBA, his game is NBA 100% and his skills are really not comparable to most any college players

That’s cool...it’s just I care way more about Arizona basketball than anything NBA, so I don’t get too excited about this.

No offense, appreciate your pointing out things many of us don’t see/can’t project out.

pc in NM · Post by **pc in NM** » Fri Feb 28, 2020 7:31 am

Postmaster wrote:That dude that they talked to for twenty minutes has his listed at 10.

But he also said that Nico's value provoked "polarization" among scouts....

Merkin · Post by **Merkin** » Fri Feb 28, 2020 9:07 am

eoe wrote:Lots of ignorance going on

Nico will be a steady NBA PG

The kid is number 1 in APG in all Div 1 amongst freshmen

His shot being way off isn’t a mechanics thing and he has proven against elite competition he can fill it up

He will be a lottery pick and will stick in the NBA, his game is NBA 100% and his skills are really not comparable to most any college players

I haven't watch a single NBA game since Luke Walton played for the Lakers, so have no idea what differences a NBA PG has v. college, but one thing that works against Nico is that he has a negative wingspan, which isn't always a terrible thing since TJ does too and he is still in the league. But TJ was a very good defender in college as a 5th year senior, and Nico has problems defending more athletic guards as a true freshman.

Does Nico have what it takes to be a decent defender given more time?

Gladiator Cat · Post by **Gladiator Cat** » Fri Feb 28, 2020 10:31 am

We've got people trying to run an illogical story-line to not be concerned about a kids struggles in the college game because his game will blossom in an even more difficult, higher pressure, more athletic/stronger player environment such as the NBA.

When I see the caliber of play that I've seen for a good while now from our big three and the word "Lottery" is used in conjunction, I can only assume that the people doing so are referring to the Powerball Lottery tickets they just purchased.

As far as the NBA Draft "Lottery".............you've got to be kidding.

Postmaster · Post by **Postmaster** » Fri Feb 28, 2020 11:09 am

pc in NM wrote:
Postmaster wrote:That dude that they talked to for twenty minutes has his listed at 10.
But he also said that Nico's value provoked "polarization" among scouts....

I should have said that I was surprised when he said that.
I heard on 1290 yesterday that Nico had fallen to bottom of first round in some other mock draft

Merkin · Post by **Merkin** » Fri Feb 28, 2020 11:24 am

Haha Suns.

PennZona20 · Post by **PennZona20** » Sat Feb 29, 2020 4:12 am

Merkin wrote:
eoe wrote:Lots of ignorance going on

Nico will be a steady NBA PG

The kid is number 1 in APG in all Div 1 amongst freshmen

His shot being way off isn’t a mechanics thing and he has proven against elite competition he can fill it up

He will be a lottery pick and will stick in the NBA, his game is NBA 100% and his skills are really not comparable to most any college players
I haven't watch a single NBA game since Luke Walton played for the Lakers, so have no idea what differences a NBA PG has v. college, but one thing that works against Nico is that he has a negative wingspan, which isn't always a terrible thing since TJ does too and he is still in the league. But TJ was a very good defender in college as a 5th year senior, and Nico has problems defending more athletic guards as a true freshman.

Does Nico have what it takes to be a decent defender given more time?

Nico is going to get abused as a defender for the first few years he’s in the league. I’m talking ice tray young type of abuse without the Steph offense.

He will make his money in the PnR offense w the spacing that comes in the NBA. But i think the game plan is out there how to defend him. Get up in his grill and be physical with him .... his legs wear down quickly when he has to work and his jumper ends up being short on any shot from length. I mean the kid should still be in high school if were being honest.

Still he’s gotta leave w this weak ass draft class. Otherwise , without getting much stronger and tougher (mentally and physically) in the offseason, the scouts are going to pay more attention to his warts.

And I’m okay with that. I don’t think Nico is the type of PG who will will us to a FF. We need a pg w a dog mentality (TJ, Lyons but with PG skills) and Nico doesn’t have that. Not sure Akinjo does either but I’m ready to find out. Now I’d love to get 1 of either Zeke or Green to stay as those kids are tough. Especially Zeke .... that dude fights for every loose ball. He doesn’t really do anything elite that the NBA looks for so I’m hoping there’s a shot he can come back. He would destroy cbb next year aka DWill soph year without the range.

OriginalAZ · Post by **OriginalAZ** » Sun Mar 01, 2020 12:08 pm

Nico is frustrating to watch. You seem glimpses of his special talent that makes him an NBA prospect. Problem is he is just not consistent or aggressive. I don't know if he would improve his stock by staying for another year. The NBA draft is all about picking guys based on potential. Staying another year would probably just expose more of his weaknesses. I wish him well and hope he can have a successful NBA career.

Longhorned · Post by **Longhorned** » Sun Mar 01, 2020 12:33 pm

Whether or not Nico is ready for the NBA, I just hope at least he believes he is, because I’d rather not see him back in an Arizona uniform. Hopefully he’ll play for the Suns along with Frank Kaminsky.

eoe · Post by **eoe** » Thu Mar 05, 2020 11:13 pm

Number 3 all time in assists by an Arizona freshman, tied with Gardner, 16 away from Bibby...

So sharp today

97cats · Post by **97cats** » Thu Mar 05, 2020 11:26 pm

his second half was the best half of his in two months, perhaps all season

eoe · Post by **eoe** » Thu Mar 05, 2020 11:56 pm

97cats wrote:his second half was the best half of his in two months, perhaps all season

He needs the game to be wide open so badly, plodding up and running weave and heave offense totally neutralizes his strongest physical trait, speed

CalStateTempe · Post by **CalStateTempe** » Fri Mar 06, 2020 6:11 am

eoe wrote:
97cats wrote:his second half was the best half of his in two months, perhaps all season
He needs the game to be wide open so badly, plodding up and running weave and heave offense totally neutralizes his strongest physical trait, speed

Make the plan fit your players, not your players fit your system.

pc in NM · Post by **pc in NM** » Fri Mar 06, 2020 6:22 am

Longhorned wrote:Whether or not Nico is ready for the NBA, I just hope at least he believes he is, because I’d rather not see him back in an Arizona uniform. Hopefully he’ll play for the Suns along with Frank Kaminsky.

We know he's not coming back - and most likely, neither will Nnaji or Green...

... But, it occurred to me at one point last night, that in another era, just how damn excited we'd all be if Mannion, Nnaji, Green and Koloko were returning for the next season!!

Lando05 · Post by **Lando05** » Fri Mar 06, 2020 8:45 am

eoe wrote:
97cats wrote:his second half was the best half of his in two months, perhaps all season
He needs the game to be wide open so badly, plodding up and running weave and heave offense totally neutralizes his strongest physical trait, speed

100% he needs space. Our offense doesn't space the floor well take advantage of Nico's strengths imo.

zonagrad · Post by **zonagrad** » Fri Mar 06, 2020 10:05 am

CalStateTempe wrote:
eoe wrote:
97cats wrote:his second half was the best half of his in two months, perhaps all season
He needs the game to be wide open so badly, plodding up and running weave and heave offense totally neutralizes his strongest physical trait, speed
Make the plan fit your players, not your players fit your system.

Opponents have a say in the style of the game. Of course Arizona wants to play up tempo and score in the 80s and 90s. But you can’t just run up the court and take any shot 5 seconds in the possession, fall behind and then blame the coach. Most opponents want a slow grind against Arizona. Whether Nico likes it or not, he has to learn to play halfcourt basketball. If playing up tempo was so easy, Arizona would never lose. This isn’t AAU ball.

eoe · Post by **eoe** » Fri Mar 06, 2020 10:13 am

zonagrad wrote:
CalStateTempe wrote:
eoe wrote:
97cats wrote:his second half was the best half of his in two months, perhaps all season
He needs the game to be wide open so badly, plodding up and running weave and heave offense totally neutralizes his strongest physical trait, speed
Make the plan fit your players, not your players fit your system.
Opponents have a say in the style of the game. Of course Arizona wants to play up tempo and score in the 80s and 90s. But you can’t just run up the court and take any shot 5 seconds in the possession, fall behind and then blame the coach. Most opponents want a slow grind against Arizona. Whether Nico likes it or not, he has to learn to play halfcourt basketball. If playing up tempo was so easy, Arizona would never lose. This isn’t AAU ball.

Spot on, make shots and the offense moves up and down. Clank everything and struggle with the post-entry passes like we have, toast.

EVCat · Post by **EVCat** » Fri Mar 06, 2020 1:05 pm

And we certainly look to push and get into early offense. You can see Miller waving his arms and yelling for them to go faster off rebounds.

As for the halfcourt...yeah, two man games are hard to pull off in the compressed spacing of college halfcourt, and not having bigs who are good to pop to 19 ft for options to roll or pop. The "weave" is looking to get interior defense moving side to side to allow Zeke to post deep, and if a defender overplays the handoff, the guard has an easy drive or open shot. It's probably Mannion's favorite move, to deke going right along the arc and cross over to his left and drive. if they jump the cross, he gathers for the 3.

But there is a reason you don't see a lot of iso and 2 man game in college, unless you can get to it in early offense. There also isn't enough practice time to perfect it...same idea as why college coaches don't go for the 2 for 1 often (and the announcers point it out in every game from every team and still haven't figured it out)...two quick shots don't equal one good shot. Unless you can get the ball back with 15+ seconds, it isn't something you are going to push for.

TucsonClip · Post by **TucsonClip** » Fri Mar 06, 2020 2:25 pm

Remember when this was going to be the "2 PG system," year?

eoe · Post by **eoe** » Fri Mar 06, 2020 2:36 pm

Clearly running two bigs makes more sense, see: Buffalo

College basketball does not need two big men (Koloko + Lee, Koloko + Zeke, Koloko + Zeke) in at the same time

I can't imagine our rebounding would suffer with our length and we would spread the floor so much more. Lee and Koloko can't shoot anything outside point-blank range. Run Green, Smith, Mannion, Zeke, and Stone and alternate between Hazzard/Baker with the guards solely.

Statfreak77 · Post by **Statfreak77** » Fri Mar 06, 2020 2:37 pm

TucsonClip wrote:Remember when this was going to be the "2 PG system," year?

Yep. Was also supposed to be the case with Williams & Quinerly too, but we all know how that cluster fuck worked out.

zonagrad · Post by **zonagrad** » Mon Mar 09, 2020 6:30 am

Is Mannion better than Malachi Quinn during his frosh year at Wazzu???

CalStateTempe · Post by **CalStateTempe** » Mon Mar 09, 2020 7:21 am

Will be a forgettable player.

Beachcat97 · Post by **Beachcat97** » Mon Mar 09, 2020 8:20 am

Mustafa was arguably better as a freshman. Could probably also make a case for Momo. Wise’s junior and senior years were better than what Nico just put up.

Two things: Nico is immature. He doesn’t yet possess the instincts needed to be a high level PG. He shoots when he should pass, and many of his shots are forced or off-balance. Secondly, even when he’s open and set, he’s not yet a reliable outside shooter. His confidence and precision as a shooter are a work in progress, which is again a sign of immaturity.

Since it’s very possible these days for freshmen PGs to impact the game from day one and live up to their billing, we expected that’s what we’d see with Nico. Just hasn’t gone that way. He’s not as far along developmentally as we needed him to be, and his time in Tucson will end before we see him make meaningful strides. We’ve seen this movie before: Grant Jerrett, Kobi Simmons, Chance Comanche, et al.

Statfreak77 · Post by **Statfreak77** » Mon Mar 09, 2020 8:37 am

Beachcat97 wrote:Mustafa was arguably better as a freshman. Could probably also make a case for Momo. Wise’s junior and senior years were better than what Nico just put up.

Two things: Nico is immature. He doesn’t yet possess the instincts needed to be a high level PG. He shoots when he should pass, and many of his shots are forced or off-balance. Secondly, even when he’s open and set, he’s not yet a reliable outside shooter. His confidence and precision as a shooter are a work in progress, which is again a sign of immaturity.

Since it’s very possible these days for freshmen PGs to impact the game from day one and live up to their billing, we expected that’s what we’d see with Nico. Just hasn’t gone that way. He’s not as far along developmentally as we needed him to be, and his time in Tucson will end before we see him make meaningful strides. We’ve seen this movie before: Grant Jerrett, Kobi Simmons, Chance Comanche, et al.

Great points.

And some of that is the lack of development under Miller. Not all of it, but I don't think Miller has shown a great ability to get Nico to adapt, learn, develop, and mature. As a PG himself, you think that would have shown to be something we would see from November until March.

84Cat · Post by **84Cat** » Mon Mar 09, 2020 9:31 am

Yet he could lead for all-time assists. I think his expectations were a little off the charts. Imagine if he had Simon, Dickerson and Terry to pass to

Beachcat97 · Post by **Beachcat97** » Mon Mar 09, 2020 9:42 am

Gotta give Nico props for those assist numbers. How are his turnovers, though?

Merkin · Post by **Merkin** » Mon Mar 09, 2020 9:56 am

Beachcat97 wrote:Gotta give Nico props for those assist numbers. How are his turnovers, though?

5.4/2.6 A/TO ratio.

So a respectable 2-1.

JG's TO weren't tracked when he was a freshman, but he did have 4.8 APG and ended up with a career ratio of 4.6/2.5.

Bibby as a freshman was 5.2/2.9.

Staf 4.5/2.8 as a frosh.

84Cat · Post by **84Cat** » Mon Mar 09, 2020 9:58 am

Beachcat97 wrote:Gotta give Nico props for those assist numbers. How are his turnovers, though?

81 so 2.1 ast/to. He is now at 167 assists according to ESPN

Longhorned · Post by **Longhorned** » Mon Mar 09, 2020 10:04 am

He's an awesome point guard on paper and in a hypothetical future.

Alieberman · Post by **Alieberman** » Mon Mar 09, 2020 10:18 am

The problem with Nico is not that he's a bad player (far from it) It's that people know he doesn't really care about being at UArizona and probably has a countdown clock in his dorm room counting down the seconds until the NBA draft.

BBQ wildcat · Post by **BBQ wildcat** » Mon Mar 09, 2020 10:33 am

Averages cover up the inconsistencies. Plus FG% also needs to be taken into account. One game he will have 7 assists and 1 TO, next game 2 assists and 4 TO and shoots 2-17. If he had that 2:1 ratio every game, with more consistent shooting, we would have a lot more wins than we do.

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