Is Graham a better coach than Rich Rod?

azcat49 · Post by **azcat49** » Tue Nov 04, 2014 6:57 pm

Why do you say that Scummy? CATinFl has taken a wait and see approach and knows a ton about recruiting.

I thi k he would say he respects the job CTG has done. How can one not? The question posed is that is he a better coach and most of us think that is silly, both are high quality guys. RR was one game from a shot at a natty and had 3 BCS bowls to his credit. CTG has the south championship and is 2-0 on RR. I know which one I would take.

Scummy Dick Douglas · Post by **Scummy Dick Douglas** » Tue Nov 04, 2014 7:35 pm

azcat49 wrote:Why do you say that Scummy? CATinFl has taken a wait and see approach and knows a ton about recruiting.

I thi k he would say he respects the job CTG has done. How can one not? The question posed is that is he a better coach and most of us think that is silly, both are high quality guys. RR was one game from a shot at a natty and had 3 BCS bowls to his credit. CTG has the south championship and is 2-0 on RR. I know which one I would take.

Because its a baseless claim. I am disagreeing with the notion that ASU has an advantage in recruiting based on admission requirements. There has not been any evidence to support such an assertion. It's a convenient excuse that, even if it were true, is a self-inflicted disadvantage without reason given the current landscape of college football.

Not that it matters, but I am pretty tied into the high school football scene in the East Valley. If there is a disparity in admission requirements between the two schools for student athletes, the players and coaches in that region are unaware of it.

azcat49 · Post by **azcat49** » Tue Nov 04, 2014 7:52 pm

Well I won't be able to dig in to it until the season is over and maybe until the recruits are as signed.

I think for sure there is evidence that AZ is at a disadvantage from the JUCO world. There was a safety Committed to us but his v lass didn't have a college to transfer to but ASSU had one that would take it and bam, he switched to ASSU.

I do agree with you that it is a self imposed disadvantage and I think that is why RR said it needs to change. Still you cant get in everyone you want, not even ASSU.

catinfl · Post by **catinfl** » Wed Nov 05, 2014 7:18 am

Scummy Dick Douglas wrote:
gumby wrote:
catinfl wrote:Asu finds ways to get football recruits to get qualified. They can take higher risk players when we can't.
Can't or won't? Find this issue confusing.
Neither. He is digging for excuses to use as justification for Graham's success thus far.

Asu knows how to get kids qualified They're good at that. Even my asu friend who I talk to about recruiting with admits that.

catinfl · Post by **catinfl** » Wed Nov 05, 2014 7:20 am

Scummy Dick Douglas wrote:
azcat49 wrote:Why do you say that Scummy? CATinFl has taken a wait and see approach and knows a ton about recruiting.

I thi k he would say he respects the job CTG has done. How can one not? The question posed is that is he a better coach and most of us think that is silly, both are high quality guys. RR was one game from a shot at a natty and had 3 BCS bowls to his credit. CTG has the south championship and is 2-0 on RR. I know which one I would take.
Because its a baseless claim. I am disagreeing with the notion that ASU has an advantage in recruiting based on admission requirements. There has not been any evidence to support such an assertion. It's a convenient excuse that, even if it were true, is a self-inflicted disadvantage without reason given the current landscape of college football.

Not that it matters, but I am pretty tied into the high school football scene in the East Valley. If there is a disparity in admission requirements between the two schools for student athletes, the players and coaches in that region are unaware of it.

asu takes kids that are more of a risk that Arizona can't because we have done the same and have had multiple kids go unqualified. I'm not saying it's easier to get in here or there I'm just saying asu finds ways to get kids in that are considered risks for other schools.

gumby · Post by **gumby** » Wed Nov 05, 2014 1:37 pm

OK, so we could but don't, because when we did, it didn't go well.

But if that's a significant advantage, try, try again.

Merkin · Post by **Merkin** » Wed Nov 05, 2014 1:45 pm

Mike Stoops lost 4 scholarships at Arizona due to APR. But that staff, and that administration are long gone.

Last time I saw the APR of the UA football team it was quite high.

gumby · Post by **gumby** » Wed Nov 05, 2014 4:06 pm

Interest rates have never been lower.

azgreg · Post by **azgreg** » Wed Nov 05, 2014 4:10 pm

gumby wrote:Interest rates have never been lower.

rickyk · Post by **rickyk** » Wed Nov 05, 2014 5:31 pm

When I transferred to UofA from LBCC even my JC professors knew that Arizona did not accept Ds for transfer, thus making me buck up my act in my final semester of JC.

The best evidence of a different standard for JCs now, I would guess would have to be Eddie Elder, a hard-hitting free safety who committed to us as a mid-year JC guy from Cali, and then at the last minute ends up in tempe because they accepted credits that UofA did not.

devilswin99 · Post by **devilswin99** » Thu Nov 06, 2014 8:54 am

rickyk wrote:When I transferred to UofA from LBCC even my JC professors knew that Arizona did not accept Ds for transfer, thus making me buck up my act in my final semester of JC.

The best evidence of a different standard for JCs now, I would guess would have to be Eddie Elder, a hard-hitting free safety who committed to us as a mid-year JC guy from Cali, and then at the last minute ends up in tempe because they accepted credits that UofA did not.

ASU does not accept grades of anything less than "C" from any community college or 4 year university to transfer for academic credit to ASU, for anyone. If you believe they do, you would be incorrect!

dc4azcats · Post by **dc4azcats** » Thu Nov 06, 2014 3:05 pm

devilswin99 wrote:
rickyk wrote:When I transferred to UofA from LBCC even my JC professors knew that Arizona did not accept Ds for transfer, thus making me buck up my act in my final semester of JC.

The best evidence of a different standard for JCs now, I would guess would have to be Eddie Elder, a hard-hitting free safety who committed to us as a mid-year JC guy from Cali, and then at the last minute ends up in tempe because they accepted credits that UofA did not.
ASU does not accept grades of anything less than "C" from any community college or 4 year university to transfer for academic credit to ASU, for anyone. If you believe they do, you would be incorrect!

That's always been a staple wherever Dennis Erickson has coached so you might want to re-check your info. Ericksons agreement was he would be allowed a certain number of "D" JC recruits if you will. I do not know what the number was but I do know that he's never coached anywhere that this wasn't the case. It's not some secret either as it's common knowledge. Now, are you saying that CTG isn't taking advantage of the same deal that DE had? That's possible. I haven't asked and frankly don't care but you're wrong in regards to Erickson and D students via the JC route.

devilswin99 · Post by **devilswin99** » Thu Nov 06, 2014 8:33 pm

I work with ASU student athletes and with the ASU Registrar's Office on a daily basis. No student, no matter who they are and what sport they might play, can have a grade that is below a "C" transfer into ASU from a community college and have it count for academic credit. It is not possible as the system will not allow those grades to be entered and to post. Dennis Erickson may have recruited kids who had crappy GPA's, but those kids did not get credit for courses that were below the grade of "C". ASU's Registrar's Office can be reached at (480) 965-3124. Please feel free to verify my info!

azcat49 · Post by **azcat49** » Thu Nov 06, 2014 8:55 pm

Bottom line is ASSU gets kids in that we can't. It is what it is. We can still kick there ass as long as our attitude is right and it starts with expectations

devilswin99 · Post by **devilswin99** » Thu Nov 06, 2014 9:14 pm

azcat49 wrote:Bottom line is ASSU gets kids in that we can't. It is what it is. We can still ki c.f. k there ass as long as our attitude is right and it starts with expectations

You need to expect to get your asses kicked by ASU every year in football, like we expect to get beat down by the Cats in basketball (although we did cream your asses last year). Football belongs to ASU. You can have women's swimming and men's diving and the occasional soft ball game, but football is ours and we have the Territorial Cup Championships to prove it......

azcat49 · Post by **azcat49** » Thu Nov 06, 2014 9:19 pm

Not so fast my friend, don't get all Frank Kush on us. The cup will return to the friendly confines of Tucson this year

devilswin99 · Post by **devilswin99** » Thu Nov 06, 2014 9:45 pm

azcat49 wrote:Not so fast my friend, don't get all Frank Kush on us. The cup will return to the friendly confines of Tucson this year

Sorry, I am just all jazzed for our showdown with Notre Dame this weekend. With a win, ASU will be in the national spotlight as we deserve to be. First, we whack the domers, and then on November 28th, the two time defending Territorial Cup Champs will head to Tucson and become three time defending champs. Tucson will finally have a winner in town, if only for a few hours!!!

azcat49 · Post by **azcat49** » Thu Nov 06, 2014 9:48 pm

You are wearing grey and copper against the domers. Frank Kush will be tearing whatever hair he has left out of his head. What happened to tradition. The cats will show you as we duplicate our run in the 80's starting this year wearing the traditional colors of THE UNIVERSITY OF ARIZONNA

devilswin99 · Post by **devilswin99** » Thu Nov 06, 2014 9:55 pm

azcat49 wrote:You are wearing grey and copper against the domers. Frank Kush will be tearing whatever hair he has left out of his head. What happened to tradition. The cats will show you as we duplicate our run in the 80's starting y his year wearing the traditional colors of THE UNIVERSITY OF ARIZONNA

ASU's tradition is winning and we do it in every color. The 80's were a blast, but not even Cyndi Lauper, the Goonies, or even the Ghostbusters are going to save the Cats from the Honorable Coach Todd Graham and the Devils. It's gonna be like the good ol Mackovic days.....

azcat49 · Post by **azcat49** » Thu Nov 06, 2014 10:01 pm

We own you so bad that even Wacko beat the devils.

cats101 · Post by **cats101** » Thu Nov 06, 2014 11:20 pm

Dw you're so fucking corny and delusional, good Lord.

You have 2 out right PAC titles and the last out right title happened before the kids Asu is recruiting were born. Calm down.

Domer fans (all 15k+) will take over your dump stadium if you lose Saturday, don't pull a Courtney Simpson and choke.

Puerco · Post by **Puerco** » Fri Nov 07, 2014 12:39 am

DW's been tipping a few, eh?

Gladiator Cat · Post by **Gladiator Cat** » Fri Nov 07, 2014 1:32 am

devilswin99 wrote:
azcat49 wrote:Not so fast my friend, don't get all Frank Kush on us. The cup will return to the friendly confines of Tucson this year
Sorry, I am just all jazzed for our showdown with Notre Dame this weekend. With a win, ASU will be in the national spotlight as we deserve to be. First, we whack the domers, and then on November 28th, the two time defending Territorial Cup Champs will head to Tucson and become three time defending champs. Tucson will finally have a winner in town, if only for a few hours!!!

Devilswin99, I love goofy ass Suntard fans like you. You guys are really a hoot. Playful and harmless in a stupid sort of a way.

The reality of the situation is the Devils have a literal perfect silk road scenario to a potential 2nd PAC12 South Championship waiting to be taken.

You're weak ass schedule is screaming Championship on a silver platter. You guys should kick the liven **** out of two really crappy teams in WSU and OSU.

The ND game means nothing in the race for the South so I could care less about its outcome other than I hope that you get smoked just for the hell of it.

At the end of the day the UofA is the only meaningful game left on your schedule. But unlike yours, our remaining schedule is far more difficult imo. It completely pains me to say it but you guys have a nice ballclub and have taken advantage of the opportunities when they presented themselves. TG has done a nice job and has had some luck along the way to help out.

You guys will be coming to Tucson either 10-1 or 9-2 with only one PAC12 loss and in control of the South. The game will be a sellout, standing room only crowd and if for some crazy reason Rich Rod goes down 0-3 to TG and the Tempe Suntards and you guys win the South again on our home field....................well lets just say that the terminology “Hard Edge” will have a whole new meaning around Tucson during the off season. The pressure would be a little more noticable.

As for the question at the start of this thread, Who's the better coach, RR or TG. Your boy Todd has the better record, a PAC 12 South trophy so he commands the upper hand right now at this moment, but can TG and his boys put an exclamation mark on 3 in a row to seal the deal.

I can tell you this for sure................ Rich Rod had better hope TG dosen't.

The UofA and ASSU showdown should be one of the best games of the year.

3goggles · Post by **3goggles** » Fri Nov 07, 2014 8:04 am

Gladiator Cat wrote:
devilswin99 wrote:
azcat49 wrote:Not so fast my friend, don't get all Frank Kush on us. The cup will return to the friendly confines of Tucson this year
Sorry, I am just all jazzed for our showdown with Notre Dame this weekend. With a win, ASU will be in the national spotlight as we deserve to be. First, we whack the domers, and then on November 28th, the two time defending Territorial Cup Champs will head to Tucson and become three time defending champs. Tucson will finally have a winner in town, if only for a few hours!!!

Devilswin99, I love goofy ass Suntard fans like you. You guys are really a hoot. Playful and harmless in a stupid sort of a way.

The reality of the situation is the Devils have a literal perfect silk road scenario to a potential 2nd PAC12 South Championship waiting to be taken.

You're weak ass schedule is screaming Championship on a silver platter. You guys should kick the liven **** out of two really crappy teams in WSU and OSU.

The ND game means nothing in the race for the South so I could care less about its outcome other than I hope that you get smoked just for the hell of it.

At the end of the day the UofA is the only meaningful game left on your schedule. But unlike yours, our remaining schedule is far more difficult imo. It completely pains me to say it but you guys have a nice ballclub and have taken advantage of the opportunities when they presented themselves. TG has done a nice job and has had some luck along the way to help out.

You guys will be coming to Tucson either 10-1 or 9-2 with only one PAC12 loss and in control of the South. The game will be a sellout, standing room only crowd and if for some crazy reason Rich Rod goes down 0-3 to TG and the Tempe Suntards and you guys win the South again on our home field....................well lets just say that the terminology “Hard Edge” will have a whole new meaning around Tucson during the off season. The pressure would be a little more noticable.

As for the question at the start of this thread, Who's the better coach, RR or TG. Your boy Todd has the better record, a PAC 12 South trophy so he commands the upper hand right now at this moment, but can TG and his boys put an exclamation mark on 3 in a row to seal the deal.

I can tell you this for sure................ Rich Rod had better hope TG dosen't.

The UofA and ASSU showdown should be one of the best games of the year.

Or what GB will fire RR? Thats laughable even with a loss to ASSU. Take a page from CSM an Honor The Process

RazorsEdgeAZ · Post by **RazorsEdgeAZ** » Fri Nov 07, 2014 9:35 am

Don't exactly know what "better" coach really means. There can be lots that go into that definition. Who has the best record, specifically in the P12 just to eliminate other apples/oranges intangibles it unfortunately has to go to CTG.

I don't like admitting that. But as an Arizona fan I can't just ignore it. Have to know what your "foe" is up to. Have to be honest with it in order to deal with it. Especially if its truly a rivalry. Problem is so far it can be debated based on the results.

If the "better" were asked about Sean Miller and Sendek, then it's a no-brainer. Results paint it's not even a debatable topic. At least to non-fringe fans.

Don't like being in the position having to add in intangibles like schedule strength or admittance policies. I HATE it when ASU fans use similar crap when TRYING to build an argument about basketball prgms or some other sport/season like the 2012 Arizona baseball championship.

Since 2012 season the PAC12 records (common opponents) for CTG and RichRod teams:

CTG
18-7

RR
11-12

It is what it is. Head to Head RR 0-2. Inheriting depth of players is something to discuss. But a bad coach can screw that up as well (or not). It's year three. Time to START (it's ongoing assessment) making in-roads in recruiting, P12 results and especially in the Territorial Cup. I would like to start up unfettered bragging rights.

catinfl · Post by **catinfl** » Fri Nov 07, 2014 9:47 am

RR didn't inherit squat on defense. We're just now recovering and we're recruiting well for the 3-3-5 in my opinion. Still a ways away, but we have two young studs on CB in Denson and McCall there going to be lockdown guys in a couple of years. We have Magiolore and Cruikshank coming in.. two impressive JC recruits that the staff loves. Our LB's are mostly under-class men. Our DL have some young pieces and will be alright next year. The D is just NOW recovering because of what he inherited. TG inherited 10 All-Pac 12 performers from DE. I'm still a wait and see approach because it's way to early to judge. IMO I think Arizona is a better team this year, but both teams are really young so we'll know more when it's THEIR guys and not players from previous staffs.

dc4azcats · Post by **dc4azcats** » Fri Nov 07, 2014 9:52 am

catinfl wrote:RR didn't inherit squat on defense. We're just now recovering and we're recruiting well for the 3-3-5 in my opinion. Still a ways away, but we have two young studs on CB in Denson and McCall there going to be lockdown guys in a couple of years. We have Magiolore and Cruikshank coming in.. two impressive JC recruits that the staff loves. Our LB's are mostly under-class men. Our DL have some young pieces and will be alright next year. The D is just NOW recovering because of what he inherited. TG inherited 10 All-Pac 12 performers from DE. I'm still a wait and see approach because it's way to early to judge. IMO I think Arizona is a better team this year, but both teams are really young so we'll know more when it's THEIR guys and not players from previous staffs.

Catinfl nailing it again! Keep preaching brother!!

Scummy Dick Douglas · Fri Nov 07, 2014 10:21 am

catinfl wrote:RR didn't inherit squat on defense. We're just now recovering and we're recruiting well for the 3-3-5 in my opinion. Still a ways away, but we have two young studs on CB in Denson and McCall there going to be lockdown guys in a couple of years. We have Magiolore and Cruikshank coming in.. two impressive JC recruits that the staff loves. Our LB's are mostly under-class men. Our DL have some young pieces and will be alright next year. The D is just NOW recovering because of what he inherited. TG inherited 10 All-Pac 12 performers from DE. I'm still a wait and see approach because it's way to early to judge. IMO I think Arizona is a better team this year, but both teams are really young so we'll know more when it's THEIR guys and not players from previous staffs.

Too early to judge? This was supposed to be a rebuilding year for their defense. ASU is 7-1 and ranked #9 in the country, after replacing 9 starters from the defense you referenced and losing their star QB for 3 of their toughest games. Pretty sure there are like 4 players getting meaningful reps left from the Erickson era on that team. Considering the players you like to credit to Erickson were largely no-name roster lint before Grahams arrival, it seems like you are digging for excuses. You post as if ASU just has layers and layers of seasoned depth and UA is just now putting it together. I count four true freshman that have gotten meaningful reps on ASU's D this year. I count one starter on their defense from the Erickson era, and he is someone that has been a going joke on this forum given he weighs almost 400lbs (Mo Latu). The "ericksons players" argument is a real reach at this point.

dc4azcats · Post by **dc4azcats** » Fri Nov 07, 2014 10:24 am

devilswin99 wrote:I work with ASU student athletes and with the ASU Registrar's Office on a daily basis. No student, no matter who they are and what sport they might play, can have a grade that is below a "C" transfer into ASU from a community college and have it count for academic credit. It is not possible as the system will not allow those grades to be entered and to post. Dennis Erickson may have recruited kids who had crappy GPA's, but those kids did not get credit for courses that were below the grade of "C". ASU's Registrar's Office can be reached at (480) 965-3124. Please feel free to verify my info!

What you just posted and $5 will get you a coke in the snack bar. Seriously.

Ask the old Assu baseball coach who's name escapes me? The one who had the best talent in the country every year but won nothing. The guy who was fired who didn't get caught for half the ncaa violations he and the school actually committed. That guy. Dennis Erickson and that guy were one in the same when it came to getting players who maybe didn't have the grades into Assu.

Have things changed since then? Could be? I haven't asked recently, but I will to see if the same stuff is still going on. Save the "call the registrars office" crap because the same folks at Assu that are saying everything is great are the same folks at North Carolina who said "every athlete is getting a first class education".

azpenguin · Post by **azpenguin** » Fri Nov 07, 2014 10:25 am

They were starting walk-on freshmen left and right in 2012. That's how little RR inherited on defense. And yet they were two defensive plays away from winning ten that year. If they'd had a few more guys, we'd be singing a completely different tune.

azgreg · Post by **azgreg** » Fri Nov 07, 2014 10:26 am

Who's better? I have no idea. They both can coach. One thing though, I like our guy.

Merkin · Post by **Merkin** » Fri Nov 07, 2014 10:29 am

azgreg wrote:Who's better? I have no idea. They both can coach. One thing though, I like our guy.

Same here.

I see a lot of the Stoops' excuses on here, "he needs 5 years".

CTG does appreciate special teams more than RR (and Stoops) does. Look at their kicker compared to Skowron (Zendejas) and the results.

Post by **UAdevil** » Fri Nov 07, 2014 10:33 am

I feel that they're probably very comparable coaches, though one is a douche and the the other RR. So I'm happy.

azpenguin · Post by **azpenguin** » Fri Nov 07, 2014 10:35 am

Scummy Dick Douglas wrote:Too early to judge? This was supposed to be a rebuilding year for their defense, and I honestly didnt think they would win 7 games. ASU is 7-1 and ranked #9 in the country, after replacing 9 starters from the defense you referenced. Pretty sure there are like 4 players getting meaningful reps left from the Erickson era on that team. Considering the players you like to credit to Erickson were largely no-name roster lint before Grahams arrival, it seems like you are digging for excuses. You post as if ASU just has layers and layers of seasoned depth and UA is just now putting it together. I count four true freshman that have gotten meaningful reps on ASU's D this year. I count one starter on their defense from the Erickson era, and he is someone that has been a going joke on this forum given he weighs almost 400lbs (Mo Latu). The "ericksons players" argument is a real reach at this point.

They've outperformed this year, to be sure. They are living a bit of a charmed life this season, though. They got UW without their starting QB. Utah without their best WR (and of all kickers to miss that kick, theirs is the last one you'd think of.) The hail mary against USC. The ND game will give a better barometer of how ASU is this season; if you listen to people across the nation, they still don't know what to make of the Devils. That UCLA thumping sticks out in everyone's mind. (I will freely admit that we were also living charmed on the hail mary against Cal, and not because of the pass, but because so friggin much had to go just right to get the Cats in position for that play.) Still a chance the South comes down to the Territorial Cup. I don't remember a game where there was that much at stake for both teams.

Chicat · Post by **Chicat** » Fri Nov 07, 2014 10:35 am

catinfl · Post by **catinfl** » Fri Nov 07, 2014 10:42 am

Scummy Dick Douglas wrote:
catinfl wrote:RR didn't inherit squat on defense. We're just now recovering and we're recruiting well for the 3-3-5 in my opinion. Still a ways away, but we have two young studs on CB in Denson and McCall there going to be lockdown guys in a couple of years. We have Magiolore and Cruikshank coming in.. two impressive JC recruits that the staff loves. Our LB's are mostly under-class men. Our DL have some young pieces and will be alright next year. The D is just NOW recovering because of what he inherited. TG inherited 10 All-Pac 12 performers from DE. I'm still a wait and see approach because it's way to early to judge. IMO I think Arizona is a better team this year, but both teams are really young so we'll know more when it's THEIR guys and not players from previous staffs.
Too early to judge? This was supposed to be a rebuilding year for their defense. ASU is 7-1 and ranked #9 in the country, after replacing 9 starters from the defense you referenced and losing their star QB for 3 of their toughest games. Pretty sure there are like 4 players getting meaningful reps left from the Erickson era on that team. Considering the players you like to credit to Erickson were largely no-name roster lint before Grahams arrival, it seems like you are digging for excuses. You post as if ASU just has layers and layers of seasoned depth and UA is just now putting it together. I count four true freshman that have gotten meaningful reps on ASU's D this year. I count one starter on their defense from the Erickson era, and he is someone that has been a going joke on this forum given he weighs almost 400lbs (Mo Latu). The "ericksons players" argument is a real reach at this point.

Any defense can look good playing Washington, Stanford, and Utah..

Scummy Dick Douglas · Fri Nov 07, 2014 10:51 am

azpenguin wrote:
Scummy Dick Douglas wrote:Too early to judge? This was supposed to be a rebuilding year for their defense, and I honestly didnt think they would win 7 games. ASU is 7-1 and ranked #9 in the country, after replacing 9 starters from the defense you referenced. Pretty sure there are like 4 players getting meaningful reps left from the Erickson era on that team. Considering the players you like to credit to Erickson were largely no-name roster lint before Grahams arrival, it seems like you are digging for excuses. You post as if ASU just has layers and layers of seasoned depth and UA is just now putting it together. I count four true freshman that have gotten meaningful reps on ASU's D this year. I count one starter on their defense from the Erickson era, and he is someone that has been a going joke on this forum given he weighs almost 400lbs (Mo Latu). The "ericksons players" argument is a real reach at this point.
They've outperformed this year, to be sure. They are living a bit of a charmed life this season, though. They got UW without their starting QB. Utah without their best WR (and of all kickers to miss that kick, theirs is the last one you'd think of.) The hail mary against USC. The ND game will give a better barometer of how ASU is this season; if you listen to people across the nation, they still don't know what to make of the Devils. That UCLA thumping sticks out in everyone's mind. (I will freely admit that we were also living charmed on the hail mary against Cal, and not because of the pass, but because so friggin much had to go just right to get the Cats in position for that play.) Still a chance the South comes down to the Territorial Cup. I don't remember a game where there was that much at stake for both teams.

I agree they have had a few breaks go their way, but can't you say that about every team that wins? As biased fans we tend to try to justify the success of the opposition, much like you did in your post. You mention injuries to several of ASU's opponents, but fail to recognize any of the injuries they fought through, most importantly losing their star QB for arguably their three toughest games. ASU was missing key players in the loss to UCLA, and in wins over Stanford, UW, and Utah. Its the nature of the beast.

Speaking of charmed life, Notre Dame has only two wins against teams with winning records (Stanford and Rice), both of which came at home. And yet they are ranked #10.

BMalo · Post by **BMalo** » Fri Nov 07, 2014 10:53 am

catinfl wrote: Any defense can look good playing Washington, Stanford, and Utah..

I'm willing to wager that our defense will look good against common opponents. Including playing Washington without the weather conditions and Utah on the road.

devilswin99 · Post by **devilswin99** » Fri Nov 07, 2014 10:57 am

dc4azcats wrote:
devilswin99 wrote:I work with ASU student athletes and with the ASU Registrar's Office on a daily basis. No student, no matter who they are and what sport they might play, can have a grade that is below a "C" transfer into ASU from a community college and have it count for academic credit. It is not possible as the system will not allow those grades to be entered and to post. Dennis Erickson may have recruited kids who had crappy GPA's, but those kids did not get credit for courses that were below the grade of "C". ASU's Registrar's Office can be reached at (480) 965-3124. Please feel free to verify my info!
What you just posted and $5 will get you a coke in the snack bar. Seriously.

Ask the old Assu baseball coach who's name escapes me? The one who had the best talent in the country every year but won nothing. The guy who was fired who didn't get caught for half the ncaa violations he and the school actually committed. That guy. Dennis Erickson and that guy were one in the same when it came to getting players who maybe didn't have the grades into Assu.

Have things changed since then? Could be? I haven't asked recently, but I will to see if the same stuff is still going on. Save the "call the registrars office" crap because the same folks at Assu that are saying everything is great are the same folks at North Carolina who said "every athlete is getting a first class education".

You are going to believe what you want to believe, the trouble is that it is not close to being the truth. If you were to find out the truth, it would disappoint you, so it is easier to keep believing in those fairy tales......

azpenguin · Post by **azpenguin** » Fri Nov 07, 2014 12:02 pm

Scummy Dick Douglas wrote:
azpenguin wrote:
Scummy Dick Douglas wrote:Too early to judge? This was supposed to be a rebuilding year for their defense, and I honestly didnt think they would win 7 games. ASU is 7-1 and ranked #9 in the country, after replacing 9 starters from the defense you referenced. Pretty sure there are like 4 players getting meaningful reps left from the Erickson era on that team. Considering the players you like to credit to Erickson were largely no-name roster lint before Grahams arrival, it seems like you are digging for excuses. You post as if ASU just has layers and layers of seasoned depth and UA is just now putting it together. I count four true freshman that have gotten meaningful reps on ASU's D this year. I count one starter on their defense from the Erickson era, and he is someone that has been a going joke on this forum given he weighs almost 400lbs (Mo Latu). The "ericksons players" argument is a real reach at this point.
They've outperformed this year, to be sure. They are living a bit of a charmed life this season, though. They got UW without their starting QB. Utah without their best WR (and of all kickers to miss that kick, theirs is the last one you'd think of.) The hail mary against USC. The ND game will give a better barometer of how ASU is this season; if you listen to people across the nation, they still don't know what to make of the Devils. That UCLA thumping sticks out in everyone's mind. (I will freely admit that we were also living charmed on the hail mary against Cal, and not because of the pass, but because so friggin much had to go just right to get the Cats in position for that play.) Still a chance the South comes down to the Territorial Cup. I don't remember a game where there was that much at stake for both teams.
I agree they have had a few breaks go their way, but can't you say that about every team that wins? As biased fans we tend to try to justify the success of the opposition, much like you did in your post. You mention injuries to several of ASU's opponents, but fail to recognize any of the injuries they fought through, most importantly losing their star QB for arguably their three toughest games. ASU was missing key players in the loss to UCLA, and in wins over Stanford, UW, and Utah. Its the nature of the beast.

Speaking of charmed life, Notre Dame has only two wins against teams with winning records (Stanford and Rice), both of which came at home. And yet they are ranked #10.

Every team has some breaks go their way, but some more than others. These are the types of things that a team with ASU's current makeup needs to go right for them; they could easily be a 5-4 team with a couple of bad breaks. I'm saying I don't have a good read on them is all, not downplaying what they've done but that I don't think I have a complete picture of them yet. I think your read is a bit biased as well just as mine might be towards AZ. The Cats could just as easily be 4-4 this year, or 7-1. (Could have dropped UTSA, and of course Cal, should have beat USC. They controlled the game against Oregon so I'm not putting that as a potential loss.)

Agree fully on ND. The thing with them is that even when they do have a good team it's tough to tell because they've got a lot of people propping them up every year, no matter what the team is made of. It gets hard to see through the smokescreen. Perfect example - In 2012 they were 12-0 but everyone that wasn't wearing green and gold glasses knew they weren't that good and they were going to get destroyed by 'Bama. FSU is living a little charmed as well. I think a lot of people are not sold on them, so much so that if they do lose a game they're dropping out of the playoff.

dc4azcats · Post by **dc4azcats** » Fri Nov 07, 2014 12:47 pm

devilswin99 wrote:
dc4azcats wrote:
devilswin99 wrote:I work with ASU student athletes and with the ASU Registrar's Office on a daily basis. No student, no matter who they are and what sport they might play, can have a grade that is below a "C" transfer into ASU from a community college and have it count for academic credit. It is not possible as the system will not allow those grades to be entered and to post. Dennis Erickson may have recruited kids who had crappy GPA's, but those kids did not get credit for courses that were below the grade of "C". ASU's Registrar's Office can be reached at (480) 965-3124. Please feel free to verify my info!
What you just posted and $5 will get you a coke in the snack bar. Seriously.

Ask the old Assu baseball coach who's name escapes me? The one who had the best talent in the country every year but won nothing. The guy who was fired who didn't get caught for half the ncaa violations he and the school actually committed. That guy. Dennis Erickson and that guy were one in the same when it came to getting players who maybe didn't have the grades into Assu.

Have things changed since then? Could be? I haven't asked recently, but I will to see if the same stuff is still going on. Save the "call the registrars office" crap because the same folks at Assu that are saying everything is great are the same folks at North Carolina who said "every athlete is getting a first class education".
You are going to believe what you want to believe, the trouble is that it is not close to being the truth. If you were to find out the truth, it would disappoint you, so it is easier to keep believing in those fairy tales......

Wrong. I'm not reaching in what I posted, I know it to be true - you choose not to believe it which is fine. I can't post what I know and how I know it and that's fine. You think otherwise just as the folks in North Carolina said pretty much exactly what you're saying. How did that work out for them? Exactly.

devilswin99 · Post by **devilswin99** » Fri Nov 07, 2014 12:54 pm

dc4azcats wrote:
devilswin99 wrote:
dc4azcats wrote:
devilswin99 wrote:I work with ASU student athletes and with the ASU Registrar's Office on a daily basis. No student, no matter who they are and what sport they might play, can have a grade that is below a "C" transfer into ASU from a community college and have it count for academic credit. It is not possible as the system will not allow those grades to be entered and to post. Dennis Erickson may have recruited kids who had crappy GPA's, but those kids did not get credit for courses that were below the grade of "C". ASU's Registrar's Office can be reached at (480) 965-3124. Please feel free to verify my info!
What you just posted and $5 will get you a coke in the snack bar. Seriously.

Ask the old Assu baseball coach who's name escapes me? The one who had the best talent in the country every year but won nothing. The guy who was fired who didn't get caught for half the ncaa violations he and the school actually committed. That guy. Dennis Erickson and that guy were one in the same when it came to getting players who maybe didn't have the grades into Assu.

Have things changed since then? Could be? I haven't asked recently, but I will to see if the same stuff is still going on. Save the "call the registrars office" crap because the same folks at Assu that are saying everything is great are the same folks at North Carolina who said "every athlete is getting a first class education".
You are going to believe what you want to believe, the trouble is that it is not close to being the truth. If you were to find out the truth, it would disappoint you, so it is easier to keep believing in those fairy tales......
Wrong. I'm not reaching in what I posted, I know it to be true - you choose not to believe it which is fine. I can't post what I know and how I know it and that's fine. You think otherwise just as the folks in North Carolina said pretty much exactly what you're saying. How did that work out for them? Exactly.

You mean to tell us that you have "insider information" on how ASU accepts kids that have failing grades when anyone can call the ASU Registrar's Office and verify that this is false? How juicy!!!!

dc4azcats · Post by **dc4azcats** » Fri Nov 07, 2014 1:03 pm

devilswin99 wrote:
dc4azcats wrote:
devilswin99 wrote:
dc4azcats wrote:
devilswin99 wrote:I work with ASU student athletes and with the ASU Registrar's Office on a daily basis. No student, no matter who they are and what sport they might play, can have a grade that is below a "C" transfer into ASU from a community college and have it count for academic credit. It is not possible as the system will not allow those grades to be entered and to post. Dennis Erickson may have recruited kids who had crappy GPA's, but those kids did not get credit for courses that were below the grade of "C". ASU's Registrar's Office can be reached at (480) 965-3124. Please feel free to verify my info!
What you just posted and $5 will get you a coke in the snack bar. Seriously.

Ask the old Assu baseball coach who's name escapes me? The one who had the best talent in the country every year but won nothing. The guy who was fired who didn't get caught for half the ncaa violations he and the school actually committed. That guy. Dennis Erickson and that guy were one in the same when it came to getting players who maybe didn't have the grades into Assu.

Have things changed since then? Could be? I haven't asked recently, but I will to see if the same stuff is still going on. Save the "call the registrars office" crap because the same folks at Assu that are saying everything is great are the same folks at North Carolina who said "every athlete is getting a first class education".
You are going to believe what you want to believe, the trouble is that it is not close to being the truth. If you were to find out the truth, it would disappoint you, so it is easier to keep believing in those fairy tales......
Wrong. I'm not reaching in what I posted, I know it to be true - you choose not to believe it which is fine. I can't post what I know and how I know it and that's fine. You think otherwise just as the folks in North Carolina said pretty much exactly what you're saying. How did that work out for them? Exactly.
You mean to tell us that you have "insider information" on how ASU accepts kids that have failing grades when anyone can call the ASU Registrar's Office and verify that this is false? How juicy!!!!

Stop already with the call the registrars office!! Do you really think that coaches just call Suzie in the Registrars office and say "can I get this guy in"? Then when they say no - the coach says "thank you so much for your time"? If that's the world you live in then I will once again refer you to what happened at North Carolina. Because Roy Williams, the football coaches and every other sport at UNC had no idea either?

Merkin · Post by **Merkin** » Fri Nov 07, 2014 2:05 pm

RR can shut everyone up on 11/28/14 @12:30pm by kicking the scummies ass in Tucson.

If God forbid ASSU wins again then the answer is still decided and we can still shutup.

Scummy Dick Douglas · Post by **Scummy Dick Douglas** » Fri Nov 07, 2014 2:12 pm

Stop already with the call the registrars office!! Do you really think that coaches just call Suzie in the Registrars office and say "can I get this guy in"? Then when they say no - the coach says "thank you so much for your time"?

If that's the world you live in then I will once again refer you to what happened at North Carolina. Because Roy Williams, the football coaches and every other sport at UNC had no idea either?

Using your logic, how do we know that RR is not doing the same thing at UA? After all, it happened at UNC, so to think it doesnt happen at UA would mean you are clueless. Plus, some guy on the internet claimed it to be true, but was not able to reference any sort of factual evidence to support his claim.

You can pretty much make these claims about any college coach in the country. Until someone provides some evidence for the accusations, its all just a pathetic attempt at justifying a failure to realize comparable results.

Gladiator Cat · Post by **Gladiator Cat** » Fri Nov 07, 2014 3:15 pm

Scummy Dick Douglas wrote:Stop already with the call the registrars office!! Do you really think that coaches just call Suzie in the Registrars office and say "can I get this guy in"? Then when they say no - the coach says "thank you so much for your time"?
If that's the world you live in then I will once again refer you to what happened at North Carolina. Because Roy Williams, the football coaches and every other sport at UNC had no idea either?

Using your logic, how do we know that RR is not doing the same thing at UA? After all, it happened at UNC, so to think it doesnt happen at UA would mean you are clueless. Plus, some guy on the internet claimed it to be true, but was not able to reference any sort of factual evidence to support his claim.

You can pretty much make these claims about any college coach in the country. Until someone provides some evidence for the accusations, its all just a pathetic attempt at justifying a failure to realize comparable results.

SDD,

The title of this thread is about Rich and TG and their coaching prowess, but I can also see how the topic can drift a bit because a lot of factors go into a coaches success.

As far as the entry standards for the UofA and ASU go, I think its kind of a argument in semantics. I don't think there is one iota if difference or admittance protocol that favors one school over the next. In-fact if there were it would very likely be illegal.

But having said that, there does appear to be some “internal control factors” that the UofA has had in place for decades that do appear to play apart in the transfer of credits. We do have proof of this in the past.

When I was younger I used to believe in the big bad Suntard BS about they are getting special treatment and operate by a different set of standards. Now I know better because its a canard to justify wins and losses on a simplistic level. These issues are for the most part controlled by each schools respective academic and administration teams and how they structure the entry requirements and how much they might bend the rules while retaining legality.

I find a lot of validity in your counter-argument and at this point and in reality I find the whole topic to be basically meaningless for debate because each school has the flexibility to design, tweak, shape and fine-tune some of the peripheral factors that cover and facilitate student athletes admissions requirements.

At the end of the day all of this is really just noise because modern day college football is basically a semi-professional feeder farm for the NFL. Make no bone about it, college football is semi-professional. The “Leave it too Beaver” days of amature athletic's are long gone.

So when wildcat interests that want to see the UofA football program have equal opportunities in admissions and getting in questionable academic risks, in this day and age all they need to do is look the mirror. When Rich Rod is talking about needing or wanting changes in the recruiting and such, he is basically talking about these internal controls that the school itself has put in place.

This entire situation is long standing UofA administration directives that govern's student athletes. So maybe some perspective and honesty is in order on this subject. I think instead of sitting around bemoaning what advantages ASSU may or may not have over the UofA in entry standards, why don't we admit the truth, get to work and even the playing field in the sports related world of academia.

rickyk · Post by **rickyk** » Fri Nov 07, 2014 4:34 pm

I just want this devil guy to explain how Elder signed his LOI to UofA; showed up in Tucson, couldn't get in, and immediate hopped down to tempe and became a 2 year starter? So if you work with all these students, were you around then? Did you help get Elder in?

azcat49 · Post by **azcat49** » Fri Nov 07, 2014 4:51 pm

3 BCS bowl games RR

Recent success CTG

Ease to get players in ASSU

Live it , learn it, love...oh and Fuck ASSU

dc4azcats · Post by **dc4azcats** » Fri Nov 07, 2014 10:15 pm

Scummy Dick Douglas wrote:Stop already with the call the registrars office!! Do you really think that coaches just call Suzie in the Registrars office and say "can I get this guy in"? Then when they say no - the coach says "thank you so much for your time"?
If that's the world you live in then I will once again refer you to what happened at North Carolina. Because Roy Williams, the football coaches and every other sport at UNC had no idea either?

Using your logic, how do we know that RR is not doing the same thing at UA? After all, it happened at UNC, so to think it doesnt happen at Assu would mean you are clueless. Plus, some guy on the internet claimed it to be true, but was not able to reference any sort of factual evidence to support his claim.

You can pretty much make these claims about any college coach in the country. Until someone provides some evidence for the accusations, its all just a pathetic attempt at justifying a failure to realize comparable results.[/b]

FIFY

Logic? I know what I know and "logic" has nothing to do with it. Go talk to your old baseball coach and ask him how he got guys into Assu? Does that help you? Not that it helped him because he didn't win shit, but if you're not cheating you're not trying.

waysouthcat · Post by **waysouthcat** » Fri Nov 07, 2014 11:19 pm

Scummy Dick still pretending to not be an ASU fan? Pathetic.

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