The 2021-2022 Season Thread

[Spaceman Spiff]

A 6-7 inch inseam is right to me

That would probably be a length that would give Christian Koloko shorts that would make John Stockton blush.

[ASUHATER!]

Well for me anyway it works since I'm 5'10" haha.

[Longhorned]

[Postmaster]

The guy in background of Memphis pic seems to have normal length shorts.

[UAEebs86]

The guy in background of Memphis pic seems to have normal length shorts.

Yeah, I think #11 is just doing the Chase Jeter thing on both legs.

[YoDeFoe]

Bunch of Dalen Terry snippet videos from his recent workouts with his training coach (click the link and you'll see the replies with the rest).

Touch looks great. Someone better at basketball than me: wouldn't he want to be doing these drills at game speed, at least once he has the rhythm of it down?

[Spaceman Spiff]

Bunch of Dalen Terry snippet videos from his recent workouts with his training coach (click the link and you'll see the replies with the rest).

Touch looks great. Someone better at basketball than me: wouldn't he want to be doing these drills at game speed, at least once he has the rhythm of it down?

My two cents on the game speed thing.

It's hard to do repetitive drills for skill development at true game speed. When I played, I my toenails would go black and blue and sometimes fall off the beginning of every season. You have to push hard in a way that you can't really replicate.

These teaching drills are about establishing motor patterns that you hope hold at the higher intensities. First, it's just hard to get the necessary # of reps in at game speed. Doing this 100 times helps motor skill, but doing this 100 times at game speed is gonna burn a guy out after 20 and his form goes to shit and compromises motor skill.

Second, you don't win games in July. The time Terry needs to translate this to game speed begins in November. Right now I think it's reasonable to just try to build his motor skill and confidence. The time to make that transition will come, but lay the foundation for now, then push harder closer to the season.

[Jefe]

[84Cat]

Awesome!

[Merkin]

Lloyd doing all the right things. Very good move.

[Jefe]

[YoDeFoe]

Glad to get Gardner back with the team - all time great Cat.

Seems we're still going to lose Terry to the Mavs, so does Gardner stick in this role and we have another coaching vacancy? Or does he move to the sidelines? He was a head coach (with limited success) previously.

Additionally, are we bringing in Riccardo Fois from the Suns now that their run is complete, as had previously been rumored?

Still a lot of flux for Lloyd to work through...

[Beachcat97]

https://www.espn.com/mens-college-baske ... gs-2021-22

[Dave]

I'm not buying Kansas or Baylor.

[Beachcat97]

I'm not buying Kansas or Baylor.

What's wrong with Baylor? Seems they earned some respect last season. But yeah, Kansas is usually fool's gold.

Interesting that AZ is nowhere near these preseason forecasts. There's a sizable gulf between AZ fan's expectations with Lloyd in year one and national media's predictions. The reality is probably in the middle somewhere.

[Spaceman Spiff]

I'm not buying Kansas or Baylor.

What's wrong with Baylor? Seems they earned some respect last season. But yeah, Kansas is usually fool's gold.

Interesting that AZ is nowhere near these preseason forecasts. There's a sizable gulf between AZ fan's expectations with Lloyd in year one and national media's predictions. The reality is probably in the middle somewhere.

It just sucks to see us go to not mentioned at all. That was not where we left last season.

Michigan at #7 is surprisingly low. They have some good returners and the #1 recruiting class. I'd have them and Zaga at the top.

[Beachcat97]

I'm not buying Kansas or Baylor.

What's wrong with Baylor? Seems they earned some respect last season. But yeah, Kansas is usually fool's gold.

Interesting that AZ is nowhere near these preseason forecasts. There's a sizable gulf between AZ fan's expectations with Lloyd in year one and national media's predictions. The reality is probably in the middle somewhere.

It just sucks to see us go to not mentioned at all. That was not where we left last season.

Michigan at #7 is surprisingly low. They have some good returners and the #1 recruiting class. I'd have them and Zaga at the top.

I'm usually pretty bullish on Gonzaga, but I actually think losing Suggs, Ayayi and Kispert is more significant than most are recognizing. I know they're gaining some excellent players, but I'm not as confident that this team can get to the FF.

Agree completely on Michigan. They're loaded, and Juwan is a good coach.

It kills me to say it, but UCLA should be right there in the mix for national contention. They return their entire team and add outstanding new players. Hard to overstate their potential.

And yeah, AZ is largely forgotten nationally at the moment. There's surely some skepticism surrounding Lloyd, and there are question marks about our roster.

[IndianaZonaFan]

It’s year one with a new coach. My expectations are tempered. I want to see this new system play out with this roster as is. And obviously want to see improvement through the year. I think more of our roster than most…and I expect us to make the tournament in the 7-9 seed range.

If we don’t make it…hey it’s year one.

PAC Finish-
1-3 is over achieving (Oregon, UCLA, USC)
4 is where I think we should be
5-6 is acceptable
7 or worse is a disaster

[Spaceman Spiff]

I'm not buying Kansas or Baylor.

What's wrong with Baylor? Seems they earned some respect last season. But yeah, Kansas is usually fool's gold.

Interesting that AZ is nowhere near these preseason forecasts. There's a sizable gulf between AZ fan's expectations with Lloyd in year one and national media's predictions. The reality is probably in the middle somewhere.

It just sucks to see us go to not mentioned at all. That was not where we left last season.

Michigan at #7 is surprisingly low. They have some good returners and the #1 recruiting class. I'd have them and Zaga at the top.

I'm usually pretty bullish on Gonzaga, but I actually think losing Suggs, Ayayi and Kispert is more significant than most are recognizing. I know they're gaining some excellent players, but I'm not as confident that this team can get to the FF.

Agree completely on Michigan. They're loaded, and Juwan is a good coach.

It kills me to say it, but UCLA should be right there in the mix for national contention. They return their entire team and add outstanding new players. Hard to overstate their potential.

And yeah, AZ is largely forgotten nationally at the moment. There's surely some skepticism surrounding Lloyd, and there are question marks about our roster.

With Gonzaga, they're just loaded at the top end. I agree with that article that Timme might be the best returning player in the nation and Holmgren is probably the best incoming freshman. Nembhard is solid and Sallis and Hickman are talented. Watson, Harris and Strawther off the bench is legit depth. Yeah, there were big losses, but the replacements are pretty darn good.

Look at them vs Kansas or UCLA. No disrespect to those teams, but I take Zaga vs either of them without blinking.

If these rankings turn out accurate, it's going to be hard watching Baylor be top 10 with Akinjo while we don't make it.

[YoDeFoe]

New article from the Athletic on Lloyd... not much fresh insight here but there is a couple of items worth reading:

Also, Lloyd commented on the difficulties in recruiting:

“Recruiting has been a little bit hard,” Lloyd says. “Let’s face it, I’m a first-year head coach, and the NCAA stuff hangs over your head. Hopefully soon the dust will settle and we’ll be able to move through it.”

[BBQ wildcat]

I'm not buying Kansas or Baylor.

What's wrong with Baylor? Seems they earned some respect last season. But yeah, Kansas is usually fool's gold.

Interesting that AZ is nowhere near these preseason forecasts. There's a sizable gulf between AZ fan's expectations with Lloyd in year one and national media's predictions. The reality is probably in the middle somewhere.

I'm not sure what the average Arizona fan's expectations are, but I am pretty pessimisticon the season. Before Miller was fired, top 20 AT LEAST was a reasonable expecataion. Now, I am not even convinced we will be in the top half of the conference. So far I am not impressed with lloyd's "recruiting" and now he is trying to place a lot of the blame on possible sanctions. We never heard Miller saying how hard it was to recruit because of the Book fiasco. He just put his head down and worked harder.

So, between not being impressed with the recruiting, and not yet having seen what kind of team he will put on the floor, I can't see room for a whole lot of optimism.

I'm not blaming Lloyd, but that's where we are. The blame falls squarely on Robbins and Heeke.

[Spaceman Spiff]

New article from the Athletic on Lloyd... not much fresh insight here but there is a couple of items worth reading:

Also, Lloyd commented on the difficulties in recruiting:

“Recruiting has been a little bit hard,” Lloyd says. “Let’s face it, I’m a first-year head coach, and the NCAA stuff hangs over your head. Hopefully soon the dust will settle and we’ll be able to move through it.”

That is very impressive on Miller's part, IMO. It's high class to invite Lloyd over when Miller would have every reason to be salty.

It's hard to know what I think about recruiting difficulties. Yeah, Lloyd is probably right, but we fired Miller while he was struggling with some of those same difficulties and doing better than Lloyd has so far.

[Chicat]

Sean Miller was always a class act.

No matter what certain never-was wannabe sports reporters might say now.

I always respected that he represented the University of Arizona in a respectful, classy manner.

[Spaceman Spiff]

Sean Miller was always a class act.

No matter what certain never-was wannabe sports reporters might say now.

I always respected that he represented the University of Arizona in a respectful, classy manner.

To be real, Miller probably respects Lloyd in a way he doesn't some reporters. Which, frankly, isn't stunning or even bad. Coach of Arizona Basketball outranks KVOA sports guy in professional success by a large margin.

I use KVOA specifically as a reference to Ari Alexander. Because I don't like subliminal shots.

[97cats]

Lloyd has his shot now and it sets up nicely for him but its gonna take a few seasons realistically - the style will be complete opposite (top to bottom) both internally and on the floor.

Miller has always been supremely secure with how he views himself and makes no apologies - not surprising he had the thoughtfulness and humility to reach out to Lloyd even given the circumstances.

[Beachcat97]

Lloyd has his shot now and it sets up nicely for him but its gonna take a few seasons realistically - the style will be complete opposite (top to bottom) both internally and on the floor.

Miller has always been supremely secure with how he views himself and makes no apologies - not surprising he had the thoughtfulness and humility to reach out to Lloyd even given the circumstances.

I've been thinking all along that the Lloyd Project is at minimum a 2 to 3 year process. As long as we're trending in the right direction by the end of this season (the team is playing better, recruiting is picking up), I'm good. I'm just hoping that 2021-22 doesn't end up being a lost season. Really need to get some momentum.

And yeah, Miller is all class, all the time. It's always been that way. Even while he did lose his cool at times, the larger impression he made while coach is that he's a good leader and a good person.

[Spaceman Spiff]

Lloyd has his shot now and it sets up nicely for him but its gonna take a few seasons realistically - the style will be complete opposite (top to bottom) both internally and on the floor.

Miller has always been supremely secure with how he views himself and makes no apologies - not surprising he had the thoughtfulness and humility to reach out to Lloyd even given the circumstances.

I've been thinking all along that the Lloyd Project is at minimum a 2 to 3 year process. As long as we're trending in the right direction by the end of this season (the team is playing better, recruiting is picking up), I'm good. I'm just hoping that 2021-22 doesn't end up being a lost season. Really need to get some momentum.

And yeah, Miller is all class, all the time. It's always been that way. Even while he did lose his cool at times, the larger impression he made while coach is that he's a good leader and a good person.

Lloyd is getting 2-3 years minimum to show he can do it. In that interim, I'm not really fine with relying on trends and forsaking results.

First, 93.6% of college basketball players were in the transfer portal this offseason. If you can't make it work with a crazy quilt of players who may or may not be your guys, you can't coach in today's CBB world.

This isn't CFB where guys stay and you expect it takes 2-3 developmental years to get them primed to play. The onus is to find success while creating a culture.

Second, the raw materials are there. Mathurin and Tubelis are pros in the making. Terry, Kerr and Koloko are returners who are at minimum, solid college players. Everyone you think will get minutes has at least a year of college ball under their belt.

I'm not saying you expect an immediate, flawless transition. I do think as we judge Lloyd, how quickly and successfully he bridges the gap is a big aspect of judgment.

Two years is a long time in the CBB world. For big time programs, it's not unusual to see a situation where every rotation guy is gone from the roster in a two year span.

Look at Gonzaga. Their 21-22 roster will have two rotation players from 2019-20, everyone else is new. For a program that's sold as a big time developmental program...they basically have 50% of their rotation guys turn over on a year to year basis. That's actually pretty stable in today's world.

So, I would peg the expectation as succeeding in 21-22 with Miller's team (i.e., an NCAA tournament along with a respectable Pac record) and then moving toward a Pac title and deep run in 22-23. I think we'd have been Sweet 16 with Miller this year, so there's an element of generosity in me not holding Lloyd to that in 21-22.

[Beachcat97]

So, I would peg the expectation as succeeding in 21-22 with Miller's team (i.e., an NCAA tournament along with a respectable Pac record) and then moving toward a Pac title and deep run in 22-23. I think we'd have been Sweet 16 with Miller this year, so there's an element of generosity in me not holding Lloyd to that in 21-22.

I'm very comfortable with this overview and expectations for the next few seasons.

It's crazy that we're coming off the Pac's best NCAA tourney performance in I don't know how long...maybe ever...and yet that did not include Arizona. A lot of pressure on Lloyd to win sooner than later.

[YoDeFoe]

So, I would peg the expectation as succeeding in 21-22 with Miller's team (i.e., an NCAA tournament along with a respectable Pac record) and then moving toward a Pac title and deep run in 22-23. I think we'd have been Sweet 16 with Miller this year, so there's an element of generosity in me not holding Lloyd to that in 21-22.

Same thoughts.

I think we'll be good this season - better than most believe (if you haven't heard me say it 100x by now). My concern is that Lloyd is going to have to "prove it" and we'll need to get the NCAA IARP behind us before Lloyd can recruit at full strength.

So what does that mean? Probably losing three or four guys to pro play after this season and we're already down two guys in scholarships... so assuming no transfers we'll be looking for a 6 man class. We've got one very good recruit right now, but I worry that the IARP won't decide and Lloyd won't be able to prove it in time to secure the necessary talent to replace who we're losing and improve the following season.

So I think we surprise this season, have a lull next season, and then get back to it in his third season and beyond. Somewhat like Miller's start.

[Postmaster]

Does anyone know who the guy is: he is/was on staff but not a coach. Kind of heavy set. Little bit of a widows peak hairline.

[Merkin]

Does anyone know who the guy is: he is/was on staff but not a coach. Kind of heavy set. Little bit of a widows peak hairline.

Him?

Still working at the UA, just not on Lloyd's staff like he was on Miller's.

https://arizonawildcats.com/staff-direc ... ynolds/276

[Postmaster]

Yes.
I see him on tv a lot and never knew who he was.
Saw him last night while I was at dinner.


Thanks

[Spaceman Spiff]

So, I would peg the expectation as succeeding in 21-22 with Miller's team (i.e., an NCAA tournament along with a respectable Pac record) and then moving toward a Pac title and deep run in 22-23. I think we'd have been Sweet 16 with Miller this year, so there's an element of generosity in me not holding Lloyd to that in 21-22.

Same thoughts.

I think we'll be good this season - better than most believe (if you haven't heard me say it 100x by now). My concern is that Lloyd is going to have to "prove it" and we'll need to get the NCAA IARP behind us before Lloyd can recruit at full strength.

So what does that mean? Probably losing three or four guys to pro play after this season and we're already down two guys in scholarships... so assuming no transfers we'll be looking for a 6 man class. We've got one very good recruit right now, but I worry that the IARP won't decide and Lloyd won't be able to prove it in time to secure the necessary talent to replace who we're losing and improve the following season.

So I think we surprise this season, have a lull next season, and then get back to it in his third season and beyond. Somewhat like Miller's start.

Not to harp, but some of what you describe is why I wish Lloyd had invested more in retaining Miller's class.

This year's roster has talent, but is paper thin. I could see the talent surprising, but one or two injuries and the whole thing could also fall apart fast.

Going into next year, I would fully expect Mathurin, Tubelis and (of course) Kier to be gone at minimum. So best case, Koloko, Ballo, Terry, Larsson, Nowell and Kerr return as potential contributors and maybe Bal is ready.

It just seems like it would be nice to have a few extra guys both years so it doesn't become a situation where we need EVERY guy to contribute to be good. Plus, a little competition is good.

And another broken record alert, it's another reason I didn't understand bringing in Ballo with Koloko with open scholarships. The limitations of Koloko and Ballo are lack of positional flexibility. Having multiple single position players on a short roster that we are not adding to is just puzzling to me. I'd take Koloko, obviously, as I still think he has a ton of upside, but I just struggle with Ballo.

[Irish27]

[Spaceman Spiff]

I mean, we could really use a small 4, and he liked some part of Arizona at some point.

[YoDeFoe]

Not to harp, but some of what you describe is why I wish Lloyd had invested more in retaining Miller's class.

This year's roster has talent, but is paper thin. I could see the talent surprising, but one or two injuries and the whole thing could also fall apart fast.

Going into next year, I would fully expect Mathurin, Tubelis and (of course) Kier to be gone at minimum. So best case, Koloko, Ballo, Terry, Larsson, Nowell and Kerr return as potential contributors and maybe Bal is ready.

It just seems like it would be nice to have a few extra guys both years so it doesn't become a situation where we need EVERY guy to contribute to be good. Plus, a little competition is good.

And another broken record alert, it's another reason I didn't understand bringing in Ballo with Koloko with open scholarships. The limitations of Koloko and Ballo are lack of positional flexibility. Having multiple single position players on a short roster that we are not adding to is just puzzling to me. I'd take Koloko, obviously, as I still think he has a ton of upside, but I just struggle with Ballo.

Yeah in retrospect, I may have taken the loss of Dezonie and Simpson more lightly than I should have given my current concerns that we'll be unable to fill in talent for 2022-23.

[YoDeFoe]

Basketball analyst CJ Marchesani ranked Benn Mathurin tenth nationally among last year's college freshmen.

[gronk4heisman]

Not sure what someone's stock portfolio has to do with basketball skills.

[Beachcat97]

Mathurin is a future pro, no question.

Excited to see my Pistons pick CC tonight!

[azgreg]

[Chicat]

He’s got Mathurin at #12 and no other Cats in the top 40.

[MountainCat]

So we have 5 of the top 10 returning freshman in the Pac 12, including #1 and #2. I assume then that we should be picked to finish in the lower half of the league. I mean, come on, even Utah and ASU may have better coaches. Coach Lloyd is an untested leader and has never won a game before. Go figure...

[Spaceman Spiff]

So we have 5 of the top 10 returning freshman in the Pac 12, including #1 and #2. I assume then that we should be picked to finish in the lower half of the league. I mean, come on, even Utah and ASU may have better coaches. Coach Lloyd is an untested leader and has never won a game before. Go figure...

It's hard for me to pick our fortunes. We have some of the most talented players in the Pac. Benn and Tubs should be all-conference level in a pretty good year for the Pac.

We also have like no Plan B if an injury happens or someone underperforms. Tubs is our only PF, so our only fallback would be Terry or Benn out of position. Kerr and Kier are our only two PG capable guys, so if one goes down, uh oh.

It's very much a boom or bust scenario.

[Beachcat97]

I hear you on the injury situation, Spiff. Also, increasingly, injuries seem to happen all. the. time. Not sure if teams are just erring on the side of over-caution with players' bodies, or if there are simply more injuries these days. But at both the pro and college levels, guys seem to get injured more than in the past.

If AZ finishes higher than 4th in the Pac this coming season, I'll be pleasantly surprised.

[Spaceman Spiff]

I hear you on the injury situation, Spiff. Also, increasingly, injuries seem to happen all. the. time. Not sure if teams are just erring on the side of over-caution with players' bodies, or if there are simply more injuries these days. But at both the pro and college levels, guys seem to get injured more than in the past.

If AZ finishes higher than 4th in the Pac this coming season, I'll be pleasantly surprised.

Injuries are tough to predict. To me, the more consistent worry day in and day out is foul trouble. Pac refs blow the whistle a lot, and we don't exactly have a roster built to handle a main cog getting a few early fouls.

A reach in plus a charging call and we're in a tough spot. I say this in part because it is clearly an area we struggled with last year. We fouled waay too much.

[Postmaster]

Is there any kind of deadline for signing and playing this upcoming season?
School starts in a few weeks.

[YoDeFoe]

Terry balled out at the Seattle pro am today alongside five star Duke commit Paolo Banchero.

Terry playing well this season would do… a lot to elevate the floor of this team (not to mention the ceiling).

[YoDeFoe]

I don’t think this is in the Sean Miller playbook lol

[RichardCranium]

Yeah, no problems with these at all

I remember calling them ugly at the time. 'Culottes' I called 'em.

You guys shouted me down and said they were great.

Please learn from this incident and respect your elders from now on.

[84Cat]