The 2021-2022 Season Thread

[YoDeFoe]

I have problems with Lloyd and let me explain. No matter how promising someone looks on paper you never give a prominent leadership position to someone who has never lead before. It's a recipe for disaster.

Recruiting at Arizona is not difficult, he just sucks right now and doesn't have the experience or perspective to understand what Arizona really is.

You can't use the scandal as an excuse for poor recruiting results. Oklahama State got Cade Cunningham (and have a really good team returning this year without him) Auburn went to a Final Four and are still recruiting well, USC went to the elite 8 and had back to back top ten picks, Will Wade and LSU are operating business as usual.

Suggs and Holmgren are great gets and are monsters for a mid major school, but they are just another batch of good players here at Arizona. Because Lloyd has never led before, he doesn't get this. He hasn't put in the work to struggle in recruiting to understand how to leverage the Arizona name. Yes, Robinson is good to have on your staff, but in my opinion he has too much ground to cover to be an asset to the athletics program.

Ok I chopped this down to what I could respond to...

"Never give a leadership position to someone who hasn't been a leader before..." UNC, Duke, Arizona

Does Lloyd suck at recruiting? Or is he doing the work and we just haven't yet seen the fruits of his labor? I used to buy and manage office towers for pension funds, and a big year for me would be three acquisitions. Outside of the operations work, I spent all year walking buildings and shaking hands and running numbers and making pitches... I'd get two wins on average. Did I suck at my job? Or was that just the nature of it... you do a lot of work, most of it no one outside of your team sees, and you get a handful of big wins. People can look down their nose about "well you lost that deal" but the reality often was: we didn't want that deal, at least not on the terms the other guys were willing to offer (to carry the metaphor, that'd be Creighton giving Kaluma the starting SF spot). That's a lot about me to say: we can be patient here, because recruiting isn't a win every month, the guy hasn't even rolled the ball out at McKale, and we're still relatively early in the 2022-23 cycle.

OK State had a prior relationship with Cade's dad, hiring him. Similar with USC. Both largely escaped the media firestorm we received, and in the case of USC the punishment has come down and it was a slap on the wrist. Auburn and LSU also escaped the firestorm and they've recruited well, but so did Miller until the admin choose to no longer support him. And honestly: Pearl and Wade are as slimy as you can get in the college recruiting world - they could hear a ban was coming in the morning and ask for a commitment that same afternoon.

According to 247: Suggs would have been the 7th highest Arizona recruit of the past 20 years. Holmgren would have be the highest ranked Arizona recruit in that period (yes, higher ranked than Ayton).

I dunno man, there feels like some irrational anger towards Lloyd. Maybe pent up frustration at the program for the tough road we've been on since 2018 (or shit, since we were knocking on the door in '14 and have steadily fallen back to the end of the driveway since). Or maybe dejection from the state of college hoops in general.

Or maybe some of the gripes are legit... not trying to say y'all can't feel the way you feel. Do you, and all.

[ChooChooCat]

So you think Bal is going to contribute in the next two years? I do not from what I have seen.

I believe the staff intends to make him a contributor in the next two years.

What have you seen Gronk?

I have watched several game videos and from what I have watched he seems further away than Joel Ayayi was when he came over. Joel Ayayi redshirted his first year, didn't contribute his second year but was great after that. Are they expecting him to contribute next year because Ben and Keir will both be gone next year.

Figure Dalen, Pelle, and Nowell will be back. In the world you land Bradley, there’s another option on the wing. Bal would be the guy following that. Then you enter that 3rd year.

[YoDeFoe]

So you think Bal is going to contribute in the next two years? I do not from what I have seen.

I believe the staff intends to make him a contributor in the next two years.

What have you seen Gronk?

I have watched several game videos and from what I have watched he seems further away than Joel Ayayi was when he came over. Joel Ayayi redshirted his first year, didn't contribute his second year but was great after that. Are they expecting him to contribute next year because Ben and Keir will both be gone next year.

Assuming Benn goes and we of course lose Kier, and we pick up Jaden, then Shane slides into the rotation as a sophomore and Bal takes his spot as the tenth man. That's assuming we pick up no one else - no wing Euros or transfers or four star adds. We'd have these guys for 1-3: Kerr, Jalen, Dalen, Pelle, Shane, Kim, Bal.

Empty cupboard?

[gronk4heisman]

I thought Kim was a Sr.? He is only a Jr.?

[YoDeFoe]

I thought Kim was a Sr.? He is only a Jr.?

Two years remaining and he's said he wants to spend them in Tucson

[Chicat]

Ok, here's my rant. I think Lloyd is a nice guy and looks good on paper, but needs a little more time in the oven to prove that he's 'the guy.' Too many people were ready to celebrate the hire like he was some kind of basketball wunderkind and that he would rebuild the program when the program was already built.

Nice post. I'll quote the part I agree with the most.

Lloyd may succeed, but I don't think you can see him as a normal, natural option for a top ten program. It's the point of when people were citing to Roy Williams taking over at Kansas. We fished in a pond that hasn't been fished in for 30 years for this hire.

100% on your points on Miller. We were a top ten team for a significant part of the season every year from 2012 until the FBI hit and had 3 teams of National Championship quality during that period. I fully believe fans forgot how rare and hard that is.

Post FBI is debatable about causation, etc., as tp why we only got into the teens in 19-20 and were outside that in the other two years. I will say, my money would be on the next few years being a strong reminder of how unusually successful Miller's 2012-18 run was in that I don't see us matching it this coming year or the year after.

You say this in the same offseason that UNC and Duke bumped up career assistants as their head coaches.

THEIR OWN career assistants.

You have to admit that continuity helps them in a way Tommy can never enjoy.

[ChooChooCat]

Ok, here's my rant. I think Lloyd is a nice guy and looks good on paper, but needs a little more time in the oven to prove that he's 'the guy.' Too many people were ready to celebrate the hire like he was some kind of basketball wunderkind and that he would rebuild the program when the program was already built.

Nice post. I'll quote the part I agree with the most.

Lloyd may succeed, but I don't think you can see him as a normal, natural option for a top ten program. It's the point of when people were citing to Roy Williams taking over at Kansas. We fished in a pond that hasn't been fished in for 30 years for this hire.

100% on your points on Miller. We were a top ten team for a significant part of the season every year from 2012 until the FBI hit and had 3 teams of National Championship quality during that period. I fully believe fans forgot how rare and hard that is.

Post FBI is debatable about causation, etc., as tp why we only got into the teens in 19-20 and were outside that in the other two years. I will say, my money would be on the next few years being a strong reminder of how unusually successful Miller's 2012-18 run was in that I don't see us matching it this coming year or the year after.

You say this in the same offseason that UNC and Duke bumped up career assistants as their head coaches.

THEIR OWN career assistants.

You have to admit that continuity helps them in a way Tommy can never enjoy.

Fair, but at the same time we took the lead assistant from the premiere program on our side of the country. Now that may not work out (for Duke and UNC as well), but poo pooing on taking a career assistant that literally had the head job at the elite west coast program written into his contract seems ridiculous to me. We didn’t hire the top assistant from Jack Mehoff U. I wish Lute had a quality assistant to hand it off to all those years ago, but alas.

[ChooChooCat]

I thought Kim was a Sr.? He is only a Jr.?

Two years remaining and he's said he wants to spend them in Tucson

Totally forgot about Kim. Yeah the staff isn’t worried about wing depth at all.

[RawleArenas]

Ok, to your point about Suggs and Holmgren and their ratings (sorry the reply button does not work on my OS): top ten players are the bread and butter of blue blood programs, however consequential they may be. Every year brings a different box of chocolates. The whole reason I brought that point up was because Lloyd has mid major goggles on and doesn't fully comprehend what kind of job he has. The impression I get from him is that he will say what he needs to say to try win over fans, but still thinks that Gonzaga's mid major approach is the bee's knees (to some degree it is). You still have no idea or inkling of how he handles players, conflicts, criticism, or the inevitable setbacks that come with coaching. He's a complete unknown quantity.

People criticize 5 star players and recruiting one and dones, however when you are under fire and need bankable, ready made talent, those 5 stars help you win games and compete in the tourney. Miller was under the gun and needed to win immediately, so he went the 5 star route and had success (although no tourney because of COVID). Also, the insinuation that Miller doesn't develop players is just ridiculous. Some players just have high floors and low ceilings and can't get better. But consider this: Dylan Smith, one of the least Arizona good players in recent memory made the All Defensive team ahead of other four and five star players in the conference. Almost half of our rotation last year (who never played in the Pac 12) made the all conference team. The fact that your performance stands out over the course of a season is a hallmark of development, whether you want to give credit to Miller or not. Usually not, because fans tend to look for reasons to discredit Miller at almost any turn.

To some extent, I am peeved. The leadership at UofA did a controlled demolition on the athletics program so that they could play patty cake with Lloyd. This year's team as constructed by Miller was elite8/FF/National championship potential, which is exceptionally difficult for any major program to do in any given year. Akinjo was first team Pac 12, our first guard since TJ to earn that honor. You can't just replace that level of talent. The tournament is a drag race and you need a guy that can take over a game at a moment's notice. Akinjo was that guy and I have limited faith in our current leadership to build teams that can compete at that level. Gonzaga didn't have a target on their chest like they would have if they were in the Pac 12. Ok, I might be a little premature in my assessment of his recruiting, but I have serious doubts about his leadership qualities, and rightfully so.

The point I made about Cade and USC and all those other programs is don't make excuses at a school like Arizona, like ever. In the illustrious words of Jeff Goldblum, 'Blue Bloods uh... find a way.'

[Spaceman Spiff]

1. There’s this thing called “recruiting for fit.” That includes also personality and buying in. If Bal gets homesick there’s a portal for that now or International once again.

2. You have no idea who will be considered a downgrade by that season. You’re currently projecting without a season of reference. Also no one is saying Anderson would be Tubelis’s immediate replacement either.

3. Zach Collins (HS) and Jordan Matthews (Grad transfer) were the only first year players on that roster. Are you going to act as if the rest of the roster didn’t matter and they were the primary reason for that great run? There’s no Suggs in the 2022 class for us, well that you’re aware of….2023 though….

First note, I'm not trying to fight or be difficult. One thing I've returned to on this board is that I believe Lloyd gets 3 years here even if his tenure goes really poorly. The FBI/NCAA issues are enough I think he'd see year 3 if years 1 and 2 were sub .500.

Devil's Advocate is primarily based in my idea that there is no one and only way in modern CBB. Sometimes teams with OAD's win, sometimes experience wins out. There aee pros and cons to both approaches.

1. I understand fit. I may be a pessimist, but in a world where 40% and climbing of players are at a different school within 2 years, I'm just not sure buy in is ever a given. 18 year olds are not always noted for their constancy and ability to refrain from impulsive, emotional decisions.

2. There's certainly an element of projection, and I fully recognize there's room to change. It is sort of the limitations of now. I regard Tubelis and Mathurin highly, so if Lloyd assembles a roster that compensates for their loss, respect. I do think it is necessary because I see them as far and away our best pieces.

3. NWG was the engine of Gonzaga's 16-17 team and he was only in Spokane one year. Collins was good and frankly I forgot about Matthews. This point to me is a comment on the pitfalls of modern CBB. Lauri Markannen would have looked nice alongside Deandre Ayton, but he blew up as a freshman and left. Same with Zeke Nnaji, who would have helped a ton last year.

For instance, Bradley would be a great multiyear guy, but if he has a great freshman year and leaves...well, that's where a bit wider target list can help. It's why I raised Gonzaga as an example. Guys like NWG and Clarke came in as multi-year guys, then played well and left after a single year. It's not weird, it's an eventuality that sometimes it hurts the program when players do too well.

[ChooChooCat]

I thought NWG was a multi-year guy at Gonzaga. You’re right, damn, my bad.

To be fair the difference between NWG/Clarke and Bradley is the first two were transfers, so they had the D1 experience.

[Postmaster]

I heard some story that Suggs contacted the sage and told them he had a big interest in playing there.


Do people expect Kriisa to stay past this season?

[loomer]

Ok, to your point about Suggs and Holmgren and their ratings (sorry the reply button does not work on my OS): top ten players are the bread and butter of blue blood programs, however consequential they may be. Every year brings a different box of chocolates. The whole reason I brought that point up was because Lloyd has mid major goggles on and doesn't fully comprehend what kind of job he has. The impression I get from him is that he will say what he needs to say to try win over fans, but still thinks that Gonzaga's mid major approach is the bee's knees (to some degree it is). You still have no idea or inkling of how he handles players, conflicts, criticism, or the inevitable setbacks that come with coaching. He's a complete unknown quantity.

People criticize 5 star players and recruiting one and dones, however when you are under fire and need bankable, ready made talent, those 5 stars help you win games and compete in the tourney. Miller was under the gun and needed to win immediately, so he went the 5 star route and had success (although no tourney because of COVID).

That may be their bread and butter but that hasn't really translated into postseason results. One & done and freshman laden teams haven't gotten to a Final Four since 2015 (Duke and Kentucky). Jay Wright won two national titles without signing a top-20 recruiting class or a top-10 player, instead he developed a ton of top-100 guys that fit his system, and the right top-25 guys (Brunson and Spellman) that hung around for a couple of years. Similar with Baylor and Virginia. Roster continuity and experience still matters a lot. Suggs was the only one and done that played in last years Final Four, and he was the cherry on top to an already stout roster. Same with AG and Stanley. That's how 1-year players should be implemented. The problem comes when you start overloading recruiting classes with multiple one and done's. Instead, I'd much rather recruit key players like Bradley and Brunson who are very likely to be around for 2 years or longer. Roster continuity is huge if you want to get to a Final Four and talented players who stay multiple years only helps your case.

[ChooChooCat]

Ok, to your point about Suggs and Holmgren and their ratings (sorry the reply button does not work on my OS): top ten players are the bread and butter of blue blood programs, however consequential they may be. Every year brings a different box of chocolates. The whole reason I brought that point up was because Lloyd has mid major goggles on and doesn't fully comprehend what kind of job he has. The impression I get from him is that he will say what he needs to say to try win over fans, but still thinks that Gonzaga's mid major approach is the bee's knees (to some degree it is). You still have no idea or inkling of how he handles players, conflicts, criticism, or the inevitable setbacks that come with coaching. He's a complete unknown quantity.

People criticize 5 star players and recruiting one and dones, however when you are under fire and need bankable, ready made talent, those 5 stars help you win games and compete in the tourney. Miller was under the gun and needed to win immediately, so he went the 5 star route and had success (although no tourney because of COVID).

That may be their bread and butter but that hasn't really translated into postseason results. One & done and freshman laden teams haven't gotten to a Final Four since 2015 (Duke and Kentucky). Jay Wright won two national titles without signing a top-20 recruiting class or a top-10 player, instead he developed a ton of top-100 guys that fit his system, and the right top-25 guys (Brunson and Spellman) that hung around for a couple of years. Similar with Baylor and Virginia. Roster continuity and experience still matters a lot. Suggs was the only one and done that played in last years Final Four, and he was the cherry on top to an already stout roster. Same with AG and Stanley. That's how 1-year players should be implemented. The problem comes when you start overloading recruiting classes with multiple one and done's. Instead, I'd much rather recruit key players like Bradley and Brunson who are very likely to be around for 2 years or longer. Roster continuity is huge if you want to get to a Final Four.

Amen.

[U.P. Zona Fan]

So glad to see this thread so active again.

I'm excited to see what they can do.

We have a lot of nice pieces. More than any other season in recent memory I have no clue what we will put out on the floor, my only expectations are that Tubelis will be really good and I hope to see Benn slash a lot and burn some D's up. Also I'd love to see Kriisa get hot from 3 a lot.

Really liked Miller. He got the shaft.

Excited to see what ToYo brings, think it could be exciting.

Here is my hope for the early season.

That we bring it to Wichita in Vegas, win or lose, we bring our rocks to that.

I also hope we don't get smoked by Michigan, they will still be good. I was really looking forward to that game when we bought tickets and Miller was still coach, and Akinjo was still at the point, and everything else.

And if we play UNLV, that we beat them soundly.

The counter is under 60 days to Vegas, hope we don't get covid'd out of that trip. Got small kids that are unvaccinable and an infant that won't be even maskable. So will have to lean on the side of caution there. Will be done with last chemo in mid october so I might weigh enough to hold my seat down by then and I might even feel decent.

Lots to look forward to!!!!

Hope to meet a bunch of you knuckleheads there!!!!!!!! Thanks for keeping the doors open on this place all you admins and mods!

[TheCat]

Style of play will be what I'm interested in and of course winning every game. LOL.

[Beachcat97]

Glad to see a lot of others expressing excitement for the season. Really looking forward to starting this new chapter of AZ hoops.

[Chicat]

So glad to see this thread so active again.

UA AD should hire me. I’ve drummed up more discussion about our basketball program over two days than they have in two+ months and all I had to say was that I wasn’t much interested.

[Spaceman Spiff]

I thought NWG was a multi-year guy at Gonzaga. You’re right, damn, my bad.

To be fair the difference between NWG/Clarke and Bradley is the first two were transfers, so they had the D1 experience.

Yes, I was intentional about saying just a single year in Spokane because the phenomenon that gives me pause isn't only OAD.

I'm of the opinion that roster management, retention and development is harder today than any other time in CBB history. Players who don't get roles are transferring at greater rates than ever before. Players who do get roles are leaving for the NBA or G League at greater rates than ever before.

You sort of have to hope kids do well enough to be happy, but not so well that they are draftable.

I think people misattribute more experienced teams like Baylor and Nova winning recently as well. It isn't that their plan is infallible, it's actually sort of the opposite, IMO. It's so difficult to pull off, it leaves you in a really unique place if you can.

[Beachcat97]

I'm of the opinion that roster management, retention and development is harder today than any other time in CBB history. Players who don't get roles are transferring at greater rates than ever before. Players who do get roles are leaving for the NBA or G League at greater rates than ever before.

You sort of have to hope kids do well enough to be happy, but not so well that they are draftable.

It's so true. It's actually been this way for a while, though. I can remember waiting to see if guys like Hassan, Budinger, Solo, Rawle, NJ, and RHJ would leave or stay, and that these decisions would at times feel more impactful than getting a 5-star high school player to commit.

There's luck involved. No getting around it. All of these guys want to be pros, and many of them will, even if it's in Asia or Europe. With some high-impact guys, you know going into it you only have them for one year (Ayton, Gordon, Mannion, SJ); with others, it's less certain. The more players from the latter group a program can keep from year to year, the better their prospects. I'm not even sure how much a coach can influence this situation.

When a team wins their league or gets deep in the tourney and somehow STILL returns every key player from the year prior...that's tantamount to winning the lotto these days.

[EastCoastCat]

I'm not talking about the upcoming season because I'm on record getting excited about the upcoming Football season.

I don't want to jinx us...

[Alieberman]

I don't know anything about anything... but it seems to me that a player like Kerr might be better utilized in a Tommy Gonzaga-like system than a Miller system.

Am I wrong?

[Spaceman Spiff]

I don't know anything about anything... but it seems to me that a player like Kerr might be better utilized in a Tommy Gonzaga-like system than a Miller system.

Am I wrong?

I want to see how Lloyd's system looks before I go too far in speaking on how different it will be.

A lot of Gonzaga's offensive sets are actually not insanely different principles wise from Miller's base sets. Some of their go to's involve bringing the two posts high and sets designed around a series of ball screens to keep the D in reaction until they make a mistake. Both were staples Miller leaned on as well.

Admittedly, this is my biased belief that 90% of what college teams run is basically the same, but I do believe that. CBB is very copycat and it means most teams run variations of 3-4 different offensive principles into the ground.

Right now, you basically don't see post based offenses unless they're variations on the UNC secondary break. Two posts high or horns is a popular action for multipurpose bigs and to create space for cutters. Then you have some form of dribble handoff action to force the D into a series of ball screen coverages until they give up a lane. Finally, some form of half court post entry set where the post player drops from high post to low post for a wing entry.

That's like 70% of the lion's share of all CBB offense, IMO. Then you have 20% transition plays where players create and 10% plays that are more personnel specific.

[YoDeFoe]

The counter is under 60 days to Vegas, hope we don't get covid'd out of that trip. Got small kids that are unvaccinable and an infant that won't be even maskable. So will have to lean on the side of caution there. Will be done with last chemo in mid october so I might weigh enough to hold my seat down by then and I might even feel decent.

Lots to look forward to!!!!

Hope to meet a bunch of you knuckleheads there!!!!!!!! Thanks for keeping the doors open on this place all you admins and mods!

Brings a tear of joy to my eye to hear about your growing family and your winning fight against the big C. Bear down, UP.

[YoDeFoe]

I don't know anything about anything... but it seems to me that a player like Kerr might be better utilized in a Tommy Gonzaga-like system than a Miller system.

Am I wrong?

I want to see how Lloyd's system looks before I go too far in speaking on how different it will be.

Coward. Make bold sweeping predictions of glorious offense flow based on the new guy's former head coach and personnel's success.

[Spaceman Spiff]

I don't know anything about anything... but it seems to me that a player like Kerr might be better utilized in a Tommy Gonzaga-like system than a Miller system.

Am I wrong?

I want to see how Lloyd's system looks before I go too far in speaking on how different it will be.

Coward. Make bold sweeping predictions of glorious offense flow based on the new guy's former head coach and personnel's success.

I didn't want to steal your lane.

I just truly believe CBB coaching is all about 4-5 ideas recycled by every program and the separation is only in their implementation and execution. Nowadays, every good idea gets bit in milliseconds.

[Beachcat97]

I didn't see any reactions to that Three Man Weave Pac preview. Picking us to finish 3rd is the highest I've seen in any of the preseason previews. Anyone wanna make a case for us finishing higher? Lower? I'll admit, it does a feel harder than usual to make a confident projection. I've seen some writers picking us to finish like 7th. I think we're solidly in that second tier and probably in the tourney.

[Spaceman Spiff]

I didn't see any reactions to that Three Man Weave Pac preview. Picking us to finish 3rd is the highest I've seen in any of the preseason previews. Anyone wanna make a case for us finishing higher? Lower? I'll admit, it does a feel harder than usual to make a confident projection. I've seen some writers picking us to finish like 7th. I think we're solidly in that second tier and probably in the tourney.

Hey, I'm trying argue about Nigel Williams-Goss here.

The middle of the Pac/pack is pretty fluid this year. Every one of the teams beyond UCLA and Oregon has roughly comparable talent and a lot of new pieces.

I thought we were projecting in that Tier 1 before Miller's firing. I don't really think that any more. It's not impossible, but a lot would have to go right and we need zero injuries and setbacks.

So I think we'd slip from 3 before we do better. I feel like 3-6 in the Pac is 100% a question of which team comes together best. I would also expect it to be pretty tightly packed in there, meaning a game or two is likely to make the difference between 3 and 6.

[loomer]

[Postmaster]

The UNC coach, Robinson? Is going to be on 1450 A.M. on Monday. Sometime between 3-5.

[Dave]

I can't wait to see where the Pac-12 Conference's preseason media poll picks us.

[azgreg]

[RichardCranium]

So... I'm thinking this might be a good omen.

The other day I ordered a CD from a shop that is just within reach of my distance limits as we are still in lock down in Melbourne. The shop has an online store and you can either have it mailed out or you can 'click and collect from the store' as record stores are closed supposedly they are not 'essential services' (not essential? during a lock down? I NEEDS my music dammit!). I opted to 'click and collect' cause I wanted to get out of the house for a while.

I ordered "MoFi Collection 1" which is a label sampler compilation from Mobility Fidelity Sound Labs. It isn't cheap, and it isn't even SACD, but I decided I needed it. A few hours later I got a email saying it was ready for pickup, and the shop was open for pickup on Tuesdays and Fridays.

So Friday I head down to the shop, make contact, and the owner comes down. He says

"Sorry, we are out of Volume 1, I mucked up the database on that one. How about Volume 2 instead?"

I had absolutely no idea what was on Volume 2 but I said OK, sure.

I climbed back into the car, took off my mask, changed back into my driving glasses, and then took the disk out of the bag. I can't really read anything with my driving glasses, so I just unwrapped the disk and stuck it into the CD player.

This is the song that came blasting out. Its got to be an omen for the upcoming season:



Interesting. I wanted to embed the original track cause the stereo separation is so much more effective, but they have it blocked from embed. This 'recent' live version doesn't seem to be restricted (yet).

[Postmaster]

I really thought this story was going to end with “ and the record store clerk was Daniel Dillon!”

[U.P. Zona Fan]

So would anyone be interested in doing a survival pool for basketball?

You could make it a weekly thing where you make your pick for the team you think will be undefeated on Sunday night and you make your pick before the team you pick plays their first game of the week.

So if you wanted to pick Alabama, and they play on Tuesday and Saturday, you have to pick them before they start their Tuesday game.

Same rules as in the football pool.

Only bad part, results would have to be compiled early Monday so the Monday evening games could be included.

Tie breaker could be like the highest average kenpom rating would win. So the worse teams you pick the more credit you get for picking them.

It might only last 10 weeks.

Just a thought.

Not sure who would want to run it.

How much time does it take to administer the football pool? Maybe I could do it.

[TheCatInTheHat]

I don't put much stock in them, but I like to have the rosters of the other teams we'll play in one place without slogging all over the internet. Lindy's and Athlon are out, so I picked Lindy's because of the photo of Mathurin on the cover (in a crowd of other players from the region.) Anthony Gimino is the Associate Editor, both for Lindy's football and basketball magazines. He did the write-ups for Arizona and ASU, which may account for a little extra boost for the Wildcats. Ryan Thorburn of the Eugene Register-Guard did the work for Oregon, Oregon St, Colorado, Stanford, Utah, and Cal. Theo Lawson of the Spokane Spokesman-Review did the previews for Washington St and Washington. And LA-based freelancer Kyle Kensing did UCLA and USC. Here's their predicted order of finish in the Pac-12, along with their top 40 picks in the league:

1. UCLA (2)
2. Oregon (8)
3. Arizona (19)
4. Colorado (25)
5. USC (29)
6. Washington St
7. Oregon St
8. Stanford
9. Washington
10. ASU
11. Utah
12. Cal

[TucsonClip]

Ive been in the excited for the season camp for quite some time and am a Lloyd supporter. If he bombs, ill be here to call his ass out too.

However, I was ready to move on from Miller 2-3 years ago. Lloyd taking over this roster, with or without Akinjo and Brown, is like a shot in the arm to me. Add in the fact that I was never a huge fan of Akinjo and wanted to see more of Kerr, and here we are.

I understand why people still feel the way they do for Miller, but to me it feels like a thousand pound weight has been lifted off the programs shoulders.

[YoDeFoe]

1. UCLA (2)
2. Oregon (8)
3. Arizona (19)
4. Colorado (25)
5. USC (29)
6. Washington St
7. Oregon St
8. Stanford
9. Washington
10. ASU
11. Utah
12. Cal

A lot lower on ASU and a lot higher on Colorado than the seeming national consensus. Generally the national rankings look to be a little fan-service-like, as they're higher across the board than the national consensus.

Oregon... I know Dana Altman "figures it out" but I'm not at all sold on what he's pieced together this season.

* They lost six of their top eight minutes-getters from last season, returning only Richardson, Williams, and Dante among rotation players.

* They have no true PG - as Richardson, Young (transferring in from Rutgers), and Harmon (from Oklahoma) are each naturally two guards who can pass it but with high turnover rates (and they're not freshman Euro's with TO% skewed by their reluctant scoring).

* Williams (35% last season) and Richardson (40%) are the only known three point shooters on the team. Young is an up and down three point shooter who made 36% last season but ranked in the 42st percentile in Spot Up shooting according to Synergy.

* Dante is coming off of an ACL injury.

* Guerrier is a nice add from Syracuse after finishing 3rd Team All ACC last season, but he's best suited as a four and he's stated that he expects to play on the perimeter at Oregon.

* Nathan Bittle is a great talent but it remains to be seen how he translates to the NCAAs... this past season he went from his small town high school scoring 25ppg to Prolific Prep scoring 15ppg.

Here's CBS talking about Oregon as a title contender:

Don't fall into the trap of assuming the Ducks are headed for a down season just because they are losing their top three scorers from a 21-7 team. All you need to do is look at the name of the coach to figure out if Oregon will be a national contender. Is it still Dana Altman? Yes, and that means the roster is restocked with talent good enough for the Ducks to progress in the NCAA Tournament for the seventh time in the past eight seasons.

I'm fading Oregon.

[loomer]

[97cats]

im excited again

good time for a change - Mathurin, Tubelis, & Kerr give Arizona a talented and experienced player at each level.

pick up some timely role play and toughness and they should be competitive.

there is an off chance that Mathurin could blow up so watch out for that.

Go Cats!!

[ChooChooCat]

Ive been in the excited for the season camp for quite some time and am a Lloyd supporter. If he bombs, ill be here to call his ass out too.

However, I was ready to move on from Miller 2-3 years ago. Lloyd taking over this roster, with or without Akinjo and Brown, is like a shot in the arm to me. Add in the fact that I was never a huge fan of Akinjo and wanted to see more of Kerr, and here we are.

I understand why people still feel the way they do for Miller, but to me it feels like a thousand pound weight has been lifted off the programs shoulders.

Confirmed that Clip and I are the same person.

[TucsonClip]

Ive been in the excited for the season camp for quite some time and am a Lloyd supporter. If he bombs, ill be here to call his ass out too.

However, I was ready to move on from Miller 2-3 years ago. Lloyd taking over this roster, with or without Akinjo and Brown, is like a shot in the arm to me. Add in the fact that I was never a huge fan of Akinjo and wanted to see more of Kerr, and here we are.

I understand why people still feel the way they do for Miller, but to me it feels like a thousand pound weight has been lifted off the programs shoulders.

Confirmed that Clip and I are the same person.

We are in fact Tommy Lloyd.

[Alieberman]

I am so optimistic about Tommy that I truly believe he’ll be our 1st current winless coach to notch a win under his name

[Beachcat97]

im excited again

good time for a change - Mathurin, Tubelis, & Kerr give Arizona a talented and experienced player at each level.

pick up some timely role play and toughness and they should be competitive.

there is an off chance that Mathurin could blow up so watch out for that.

Go Cats!!

97, how are you feeling about Kerr as a PG? I know there's been some chatter here about whether he can actually play that position. Can he be Jalen Suggs Lite for us?

[Spaceman Spiff]

I am so optimistic about Tommy that I truly believe he’ll be our 1st current winless coach to notch a win under his name

The Fisch reference is well placed for me.

That's the bottom line, for positives and negatives. If you're happy the weight has been lifted, you won't be happy for long if we come out losing to NAU. If you're sad Miller is gone, you won't be sad for long if we're an undefeated top 5 team in January.

Now, those are extremes, but ultimately, the test for Lloyd is what it is for Fisch. Results. Not PR or feelings, but winning. Lloyd needs to win more and sooner than Fisch for several reasons, but that's what will define their tenure.

[Beachcat97]

I am so optimistic about Tommy that I truly believe he’ll be our 1st current winless coach to notch a win under his name

The Fisch reference is well placed for me.

That's the bottom line, for positives and negatives. If you're happy the weight has been lifted, you won't be happy for long if we come out losing to NAU. If you're sad Miller is gone, you won't be sad for long if we're an undefeated top 5 team in January.

Now, those are extremes, but ultimately, the test for Lloyd is what it is for Fisch. Results. Not PR or feelings, but winning. Lloyd needs to win more and sooner than Fisch for several reasons, but that's what will define their tenure.

If Lloyd reaches a top 5 ranking in year one, you're going to hear a lot of the naysayers change their tune.

[TheCat]

Winning cures all ills. Some of the guys in the video look like they have gained muscle. Who is the Strength coach now?

[ChooChooCat]

Winning cures all ills. Some of the guys in the video look like they have gained muscle. Who is the Strength coach now?

Same as before, Chris Rounds.

[Spaceman Spiff]

Winning cures all ills. Some of the guys in the video look like they have gained muscle. Who is the Strength coach now?

Same as before, Chris Rounds.

You can see it most notably on Mathurin, I think. Mathurin has a frame built to fill out well. His physical profile has always screamed NBA.

We should be much better prepared this year than last year. Covid took away a lot of offseason S&C and skill work that guys got in this year.

[Longhorned]

I'm sincerely glad to see posters who I respect to the maximum optimistic and excited for the coming season. I just don't follow the program enough to have my own opinion anymore. I heard Bruce Pascoe say he could see this year's team finishing as low as 8th in the conference, which was deflating to hear.

This will be the first season since I became a fan that I'm just spending all my allotted focus on Arizona women's basketball. Adia's program has simply colonized my available fandom the way Lute's and then Miller's programs used to.